Re: Startup Sequence

[Kris Tilford]

On Jun 28, 2011, at 12:25 PM, Iamanamma wrote:


Beige G3, OS 8.6.


This isn't the 1990's.

Hassles like you're experiencing is the universe's way of telling you  
it's time to upgrade your system.


His Beige can run 10.4.11 w/XPostFacto, and a simple Safe Boot would  
solve your issue in OS X, but honestly, better hardware is cheap or  
free if you're lucky.


As for the issue, I'd trash some preference file, but I don't know  
exactly which one?


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Re: Startup Sequence

[peterhaas]

> Hassles like you're experiencing is the universe's way of telling you
> it's time to upgrade your system.

A-men!

B&Ws are going for exceptionally cheap or even for free.

Even QSs are going for very cheap.

Time to upgrade to at least a Digital Audio.



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Re: Startup Sequence

[Doug McNutt]

At 13:03 -0500 6/28/11, Kris Tilford wrote:
>On Jun 28, 2011, at 12:25 PM, Iamanamma wrote:
>
>>Beige G3, OS 8.6.
>
>This isn't the 1990's.
>
>Hassles like you're experiencing is the universe's way of telling you  it's 
>time to upgrade your system.
>
>His Beige can run 10.4.11 w/XPostFacto, and a simple Safe Boot would  solve 
>your issue in OS X, but honestly, better hardware is cheap or  free if you're 
>lucky.
>
>As for the issue, I'd trash some preference file, but I don't know  exactly 
>which one?
>
>


Have a look at  ":System Folder:Startup Items:" One way to get a disk mounted 
at startup is to put an alias to the disk there,

Form a Mac 8500 running OS 9.1 where the MPW shell still works. My new machine 
runs ubuntu.
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Re: Startup Sequence

[Kris Tilford]

On Jun 28, 2011, at 1:58 PM, Doug McNutt wrote:

Form a Mac 8500 running OS 9.1 where the MPW shell still works. My  
new machine runs ubuntu.


One foot in the past, one foot in the future. You're balanced in the  
present. Sometimes it's better not to be grounded in the present.


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Re: Startup Sequence

[Iamanamma]

Honestly folks, the answer is not "upgrade your Mac."  I used to post
why I had such a dinosaur still in service until I got sick of
everyone ignoring what I wrote.

There is a program on that computer that is vital to the operation of
three very large and very expensive turret punches and one laser
cutter that are the life's blood of the business that supplies my
paycheck.

Kris, I am fully aware it isn't the nineties. The company who designed
the software we have to use dropped their Mac version in the nineties,
and it's a #$^% of a lot cheaper to keep using old Macs and old Mac
OSes than it is to spend $250K to put new PC based controllers on
those four very large and expensive manufacturing machines.  Not to
mention, I am really not interested in having any more contact with
Windows than I do right now (XP via VMWare Fusion).

Peter, without knowing what this Mac is used for and why I need it, on
what premise do you base your advice that "it's time to upgrade to at
least a Digital Audio?"

Doug, thanks, but I already looked in the Startup Items folder.  It's
up there in my list of "where it isn't."

I apologize if I am sounding really bitchy, but it is extremely
irritating when I ask a question and everyone tells me to upgrade my
hardware and install some version of OS X or Linux.  Multipunch will
not function properly on OS 9 and not at all on any version of OS X.
If my memory serves me right, nothing newer than the Yikes! G4 will
run OS 8.6.  I would have upgraded YEARS ago if it had been possible.
The iMac where I do most of my work is only 1 year old and is running
10.6.6.  Ditto for the Mac Mini I have at home.

And guys,what exactly is the attraction of Ubuntu?  My brother
insisted on installing it on the PC he brought to my parents' house
and I think the user interface is awful, and printing is torturous.  I
am all about ease of installation (watched someone install RedHat:
talk about a nightmare), ease of use (do you really think Ubuntu is
intuitive?), and ease of integration (plug and play in Linux? NOT!).
I just don't "get" the attraction of Linux.  Besides, there is no
flavor of Unix that will solve this problem for me.



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Re: Startup Sequence

[John Carmonne]

On Jun 29, 2011, at 6:25 AM, Iamanamma wrote:


Honestly folks, the answer is not "upgrade your Mac."  I used to post
why I had such a dinosaur still in service until I got sick of
everyone ignoring what I wrote.

There is a program on that computer that is vital to the operation of
three very large and very expensive turret punches and one laser
cutter that are the life's blood of the business that supplies my
paycheck.


I apologize if I am sounding really bitchy, but it is extremely
irritating when I ask a question and everyone tells me to upgrade my
hardware and install some version of OS X or Linux.  Multipunch will
not function properly on OS 9 and not at all on any version of OS X.
If my memory serves me right, nothing newer than the Yikes! G4 will
run OS 8.6.  I would have upgraded YEARS ago if it had been possible.
The iMac where I do most of my work is only 1 year old and is running
10.6.6.  Ditto for the Mac Mini I have at home.


I can truly relate to your problem I too use a CAD/CAM program  
"Virtual Gibbs" That dropped the support on Macs in the late 90's so  
I keep some dinosaurs around just in case. The "New Software" is PC  
only and costs $18,000. and they will not up grade the $17,500 Mac  
version I have. And like you this is how I make my living. So to the  
guys who say buy a newer Mac I ask which magic one do you know that  
will run these apps? Oh and another thing is they use hardware keys  
"Dongles" on ADB ports. The newest machine I can use is a G3 iMac  
with a Griffin iMate adaptor on booted OS9. It will not run on  
Classic emulation due to some extensions that must read at boot  
time.:-).


John Carmonne
Yorba Linda CA
92886 USA
From my TiBook 667





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Re: Startup Sequence

[Iamanamma]

Oh and another thing is they use hardware keys  
> "Dongles" on ADB ports.

Don't get me started on the $2K dongles we need to use...

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Re: Startup Sequence

[iJohn]

On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 9:25 AM, Iamanamma  wrote:
> There is a program on that computer that is vital to the operation of
> three very large and very expensive turret punches and one laser
> cutter that are the life's blood of the business that supplies my
> paycheck.

So ... if this Mac you are using suddenly dies. Say the PSU
finally pops or something else gives out ... it will happen eventually
you know ... then what happens to your business?

I would hope you have at least one (or more) identical copy of this
machine in a safe area ready to go should it die. No?

Not sure what I would do if my income depended on ancient hardware I
wouldn't be totally sure I could replace relatively quickly. I'm just
sayin' ...

-irrational john

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Re: Startup Sequence

[Doug McNutt]

At 06:25 -0700 6/29/11, Iamanamma wrote:
>Doug, thanks, but I already looked in the Startup Items folder.  It's
>up there in my list of "where it isn't."


On my 8500 I mount external drives at startup by running an MPW script. MPW is 
on my startup list and I just use it's capabilities to mount my SE/30 complete 
with passwords and usernames.

I don't think you have MPW but take it as proof that another started 
application can ask for a mount of an external disk. Are you starting anything 
else up automatically? If so does the undesired mount occur if you turn that 
off?

***
And ununtu is Debian without the problems like those you discovered with 
RedHat. At least someone is trying. Two things I like:

When I do discover something I don't like and might be a bug I can go to the 
net and easily search for bugs reported by others. Sometimes I can even help 
fix something.  Try that with Apple's bug reporter.  If you didn't file the bug 
you can't see it.

If I don't like the way an application works I can jolly well change it. Well, 
that's true for most and there are some apps that don't release source code. 
The whole thing makes me feel like its 1965 all over again when I could and did 
make changes to Control Data's operating system or FORTRAN compiler to make it 
work for me. Some of the changes were accepted, with thanks, by Control Data. 
The computing world was better back then. Nobody thought of patenting or 
copywriting software. And objective C didn't exist.

***

And I still use perfectly good oscilloscopes from Tektronix that require serial 
RS-232 ports to be programmed. New Apple stuff doesn't even compete with the 
68030 with its RS-485 capability. Did you ever try connecting a Garmin GPS to a 
modern Mac?  RS-232 to USB mostly works but you're limited to a meter or so for 
the connection unless it's a special converter. And Garmin itself doesn't go 
negative as required by the RS-232 specification.

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Re: Startup Sequence

[Kris Tilford]

On Jun 29, 2011, at 1:03 PM, Doug McNutt wrote:

Try that with Apple's bug reporter. If you didn't file the bug you  
can't see it.


Apple is like the Wizard of Oz, they do everything behind a big black  
curtain, and then sell the end result as if it's magic. Ubuntu has  
everything out in the open. Apple is like high fashion, Ubuntu is like  
scrubs. Scrubs are getting fancier, with floral prints and different  
colors, but they're still scrubs, and will never be high fashion.


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Re: Startup Sequence

[Bruce Johnson]

On Jun 29, 2011, at 9:40 AM, Iamanamma wrote:

> Oh and another thing is they use hardware keys  
>> "Dongles" on ADB ports.
> 
> Don't get me started on the $2K dongles we need to use...

Apropos my comments about DIY: the dongles protect the software, not the 
hardware. (at least normally)

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


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Re: Startup Sequence

[Bruce Johnson]

On Jun 29, 2011, at 6:25 AM, Iamanamma wrote:

> Peter, without knowing what this Mac is used for and why I need it, on
> what premise do you base your advice that "it's time to upgrade to at
> least a Digital Audio?"

The premise is that it would be a much newer computer than the ones you're 
using, newer hardware, fewer random failures.

Since you did NOT mention that running 8.6 is a requirement, only classic, we 
didn't go there. 

At this point I'd start looking to invest in a stock of first-gen iMacs and B&W 
G3's, they came with and will run 8.6; if you need a serial port, you can get 
usb-serial converters for 'em or the Gee-three stealth serial ports if you look 
hard, maybe PCI cards for a B&W tower.

Beyond that I'd consider looking for outside the box ideas: what OEM 
controllers are in the machines; perhaps other software has been written (or 
could be written) to control them. How do they connect to the Mac? 

If it's a rs422 or rs232 serial, there's ways to convert that to USB, and if 
you know what the underlying electronics are you may well find someone who can 
write some sort of interfacing program and/or build hardware to suit, that will 
run on more modern equipment. 

$250K to convert to PC control would be probably be considerably more than 
funding a DIY replacement (which you could then sell to other folks in your 
predicament.) In the end CNC is just a matter of taking bits in and sending 
bits out. Even big versus little endian issues are relatively simple to deal 
with (a friend wrote a lot of code doing just that for the Mars Phoenix lander 
mission, because some instruments were x86-based, and others were 68K based; 
plus there's issues like this making sure that the data sent back over the 
millions of miles separating the sender and receiver lands here in usable 
fashion, not hopelessly mangled.)

There's a ton of open-source work that has been done to control CNC things like 
laser cutters and such. You might even find some engineering majors looking for 
a project if you're near a university with an engineering school.

Something to think aboutbecause in the end, relying on antique hardware 
increasingly renders the business liable to unexpected and costly shutdowns.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


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Re: Startup Sequence

[Bruce Johnson]

On Jun 29, 2011, at 9:40 AM, Iamanamma wrote:

> Oh and another thing is they use hardware keys  
>> "Dongles" on ADB ports.
> 
> Don't get me started on the $2K dongles we need to use...

Also, again, if it's a serial thing, apparently Sheepshaver (a Classic emulator 
that runs under OS X) can use USB-Serial converters:




-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


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Re: Startup Sequence

[t...@io.com]

On Jun 28, 12:25 pm, Iamanamma  wrote:
> Beige G3, OS 8.6.
>
> Can somebody remind me where the setting is that allows me to make it
> STOP trying to connect to another computer during the startup
> sequence?

Try deleting "Appleshare Prep" in the preferences folder.

My source:


It was the third result when I searched on "stop automatically connect
network drive" in the groups: comp.sys.mac.*

All ancient Mac wisdom was discussed at some point in the UseNet
comp.sys.mac.* hierarchy

There is also some discussion about unchecking a "connect at startup"
box, but I don't think you can access that box unless the drive is
available to mount.   Although there might be something in the Chooser
you could do.

Regarding the later hardware discussion...  It sounds like you might
want to stock up on Beige G3 logic boards.  They have the virtue of
working with ATX power supplies.   However, while ZIF (CPU) modules
will probably be available forever, the VRMs may become hard to
find.Another alternative would be to lay in a few of the
PowerComputing brand clones.   They also use ATX power supplies.
Another alternative would be the Umax clones which use a modified ATX
drive, but it's pretty easy to build an adapter.

Jeff Walther

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Re: Startup Sequence

[Iamanamma]

>
> Try deleting "Appleshare Prep" in the preferences folder.
>

AND Jeff wins the prize!

To answer some other questions throughout this topic: yes, I do have
several beige G3 units saved as backup units, as well as a couple of
IIci (NOT easy to find in working condition any more) and a couple of
IIsi.  The G3s are where we program, we transfer the programs via
Appletalk to the IIci and IIsi to run the turrets.  I'm always looking
for more of all three Macs, as well as working comm cards, cache
cards, etc.

The dongles we have to use connect via ribbon cable to the comm card
ports on the back of the IIsi and IIci.  They may not be what most
people consider "dongles," but that's what the manufacturer calls
them.  They're not on the G3s, and that's a topic for another
discussion on another list.

Bruce, thanks for the advice on possible finding someone who could
update the program for newer machines.  As IIci  and IIsi get harder
to find, my boss might have some interest in that.

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Re: Startup Sequence

[t...@io.com]

On Jul 6, 2:27 pm, Iamanamma  wrote:
> > Try deleting "Appleshare Prep" in the preferences folder.

> IIci (NOT easy to find in working condition any more) and a couple of
> IIsi.

>   As IIci  and IIsi get harder
> to find, my boss might have some interest in that.

Almost all non-working IIci's need the capacitors replaced on the
logic board.   As time passes, pretty much all of them are going to
need this.   So any IIci's you buy are either going to need to have it
done, or have already had it done.   If you have failed IIci's that's
likely to be the problem.

Of course, the other likely problem is failed power supplies, but
since those are easily swappable, that's pretty obvious from a trouble-
shooting point of view.

Anyway, replacing the capacitors is not especially difficult.  In an
industrial environment such as yours, I would be surprised if you
don't have several people who are handy with a soldering pencil.

Much discussion of replacing the logic board capacitors is available
in the forums over on 68kmla.net.

The gist is:

1)  The surface mount electrolytic capacitors leak corrosive goo
eventually.
2)  The corrosive goo can destroy circuit board traces and vias and
appears to be at least somewhat electrically conductive, as evidenced
by the fact that washing it off is often enough to get a board working
again, temporarily.
3)  Replace the surface mount electrolytics with surface mount
tantalums.  They won't leak goo.
4)  The stripe on the electrolytics indicates the negative terminal.
The stripe on the tantalums indicates the positive terminal.  The
confusion from this has resulted in many popped tantalums.
5)  If you don't have special soldering equipment, the easiest way to
remove the surface mount capacitors is to use two soldering pencils.
One on each side of the cap to be removed.
6)  Be patient!  Most lifted pads and torn traces are caused by folks
trying to remove a capacitor before the solder is fully melted or any
glue underneath is softened.

Jeff Walther

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