Re: Xserve advice?
Xserve systems are *extremely* noisy. Why I am certain one would meet your technical needs, unless you have a way to physically locate the Xserve remotely, then extend the keyboard, mouse and video, I feel that you would be better served by purchasing either a G4 or G5 PowerMac tower. If you do end up purchasing an Xserve anyway, please report back and let us know how it is working for you. Jerry On 06/01/11 23:20, Austin Leeds wrote: Hi all, I'm thinking of buying an Xserve to replace my old desktop PC (a Pentium III 733 MHz), but I've never used or even seen one before in person. I've heard they're usable as desktops, if you've got the room and a good video card—and my room has spaces that would be more blade- server friendly than regular desktop-friendly. The Intel models are out of the question for me (hence why I'm posting here and not in one of the Intel groups), but I'm not sure whether to get the G4 or a dual-G5. I'd be using it basically as a server for my LAN and as a part time workstation. Any advice? Austin Leeds Sent from my iPad -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Xserve advice?
Yes, but if he is working with a blade server it won't be as loud. I have an IBM xseries 226 in my living room that I run all the time. It's very, very loud. I've had a blade server that was pretty quiet and wasn't to loud. From what I understand, the Xserve is rack mountable so it's smaller and should be much quieter -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Xserve advice?
He said the intel models were out of the question for him so he wanted to know about the alternative. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Xserve advice?
Hi Austin Happy to spout about my XServe any time! It would be three by 1TB = 3TB total. I currently have three 250 2·5” (laptop size) drives in the bays: SATA connections seem to be the same on 2·5” and 3·5”. If I carry on using the XServe as a main beast, I’ll eventually get server-grade drives but this does me for now. Lepard server, more RAM, a video card and (if possible) a second processor would come higher up the priority list cheers Bruce On 2 Jun 2011, at 23:28, Austin Leeds wrote: Thanks, that helps a lot. I actually compute most of the time with a big box fan on full next to me, so I don't think the sound will be that much of an issue. :) On a side note, the admin's office at my college is also the server room, and he's in there quite a bit of the time. His hobby? Building and rebuilding speakers! Right now, I'm in the midst of a project for my college newspaper— we're wanting to expand our storage and give ourselves more local control over it, since the lone Mac admin works on another campus and is overworked as it is. I figured I would buy an Xserve for myself, bring it to campus to test it, and the newspaper staff and IT and I would discuss our options from there. Then I'd use my Xserve for VPN and backups and whatnot. And yes, it's probably going to go somewhere out of sight and out of earshot, to be remotely managed by my iPad. The G5 sounds best. So, is that 3 one terabyte drives, or three drives to achieve one terabyte? On Jun 2, 3:13 pm, Bruce Ryan bruce.r...@mac.com wrote: Hi Austin I'm using an XServe G5 2·0 GHz single processor as a desktop machine, running Leopard client. (It came with 10.3 server but I wanted Leopard for TimeMachine and didn't need server capabilities. To be honest I just wanted the coolness of having my own XServe/shiny Apple joy, although learning how to set up server stuff would have been a bonus.) It's a bit slow but it does the job - mostly. It does need a decent video card (yet to be purchased) - without it games just lead to black screens of death. Also, even though I've built a cage to hold it on the side of my desk which diverts some of the fan noise away from me, it's still distractingly noisy. IIRC, G4 takes 4 PATA disks, while I know the G5 takes 3 SATA disks. Mine came with a CD-reader but I've swapped that for a laptop CD/DVD reader. There may be limits on the total drive capacity: - G4, everymac.com says 'up to four 180 GB ATA/100 hard drives' - G5, everymac.com says 'up to 750 GB of storage with three 250 GB SATA hard drives'. However, XServe dealers who serviced my XServe say up to 3 by 1TB is feasible. Overall, if you can find a way of dealing with noise (maybe put a wall between you and the XServe, then look for long keyboard, pointer, monitor cables and a big masonry drill - or just put an ethernet connection to your switch/hub and control it via your normal quiet desktop machine), want a high capacity machine that can support several drives and looks pretty cool, I'd go for the G5. However, you may find a Mac Pro quieter - and it has capacity for up to 4 drives, already will have a working video card. Finally, as I'm sure you've realised, G5s are limited to Leopard. Hope this helps Bruce -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Xserve advice?
On 6/1/11 11:20 PM, Austin Leeds wrote: Hi all, I'm thinking of buying an Xserve to replace my old desktop PC (a Pentium III 733 MHz), but I've never used or even seen one before in person. I've heard they're usable as desktops, if you've got the room an snip Well since they stopped making xserves and started using Mac Mini's as servers You might be better off checking out a new or used Intel Mac Mini. You should already have the Server software. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Xserve advice?
Is that your experience with the Xserve, or just servers in general? On Jun 2, 12:28 am, Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote: On Jun 1, 2011, at 9:20 PM, Austin Leeds wrote: Hi all, I'm thinking of buying an Xserve to replace my old desktop PC (a Pentium III 733 MHz), but I've never used or even seen one before in person. I've heard they're usable as desktops, if you've got the room and a good video card—and my room has spaces that would be more blade- server friendly than regular desktop-friendly. Servers are loud. Really really loud. I had the misfortune of having to work in a small space with a bunch of 'em for a couple years and I've got a case of tinnitus to show for it. They belong off in a back room, accessed remotely, imo. -- Bruce Johnson Wherever you go, there you are B. Banzai, PhD -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Xserve advice?
I'm thinking of getting a Mac mini as well… eventually. But I really like the storage capacity of the Xserve. On Jun 2, 1:49 am, Charles Lenington macso...@brightok.net wrote: On 6/1/11 11:20 PM, Austin Leeds wrote: Hi all, I'm thinking of buying an Xserve to replace my old desktop PC (a Pentium III 733 MHz), but I've never used or even seen one before in person. I've heard they're usable as desktops, if you've got the room an snip Well since they stopped making xserves and started using Mac Mini's as servers You might be better off checking out a new or used Intel Mac Mini. You should already have the Server software. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Xserve advice?
On Jun 2, 2011, at 7:02 AM, Austin Leeds firepowerforfree...@gmail.com wrote: Is that your experience with the Xserve, or just servers in general? Both. -- Bruce -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Xserve advice?
On 6/2/11 8:03 AM, Austin Leeds wrote: I'm thinking of getting a Mac mini as well… eventually. But I really like the storage capacity of the Xserve. Theres no real difference between the storage cap of a XServe, a Mac Pro, or a Mac Mini with some external hard drives via USB. An XServe has, at most, what, 4 hard drives depending on the model? A Mac Pro has at least 2 internal bays (could easily be supplemented by esata and an external chassis). A Mac Mini server has two internal and USB for external drives. You could add a XServe RAID like I did to either a XServe or Mac Pro, but that's an expensive addon, and requires the use of a Fibre channel card, cabling, and PATA (there was no sata) hard drives. The other thing to note is that in quite a few cases, Xserves did not have video cards - they were designed to be remote accessed. All in all, if you want storage, go gige with a NAS - either an Airport Extreme loaded with external hard drives, or another vendor's device that can do AFP or SMB. Then, you can use whatever desktop or laptop device you want. -- Brielle Bruns The Summit Open Source Development Group http://www.sosdg.org/ http://www.ahbl.org -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Xserve advice?
On 6/2/11 9:35 AM, Austin Leeds wrote: All things considered, I would go with the Mac mini if it wasn't as expensive. I've seen some really inexpensive working Xserves ($200- $300) on eBay and thought that might be the better route. I've seen the XRAID units (empty) for $99. Do they need any additional parts (other than HDDs and caddies) to get them going? The XServe RAIDs themselves do - they need 2 managers (7 drives per card), power supplies (at least one), fan trays (two). Alot of the ones I've seen on ebay and the likes are missing pieces. Plus, you can't do larger drives (500GB) in the earlier models. To actually hook them up to a computer, you need a fibre channel card for the desktop - either an Apple branded 2G one, or one with drivers under 10.4 or 10.5 (qlogic, atto, lsi). Note that 10.6 does not support the qlogics from what I've read. You'll need a PCI-X or PCIe slot regardless. You'll also need SFP 2G optics for the XServe RAID if the desktop card has integrated optics, or you'll have to use SFP to SFP cables like what the NetApps use. Each manager needs its own fibre/SFP connection to the host system as well. For a fibre channel device, its awesome, easy to setup and looks really nice in the dark. But, it is by far not what you'd call a consumer level device given its not just plug into the ethernet and it magically works. Oh, its not quiet either, and 14 drive spindles tend to generate alot of heat. :) -- Brielle Bruns The Summit Open Source Development Group http://www.sosdg.org/ http://www.ahbl.org -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Xserve advice?
Excellent! Thanks for the info! So, let's assume I want to just use an Xserve without the RAID for now. I can probably stand the noise (I prefer noise to deafening silence), and weren't there fans that could be put in place of a drive caddy? Could I easily set up a WebDAV server on one of these? On Jun 2, 10:50 am, Brielle Bruns br...@2mbit.com wrote: On 6/2/11 9:35 AM, Austin Leeds wrote: All things considered, I would go with the Mac mini if it wasn't as expensive. I've seen some really inexpensive working Xserves ($200- $300) on eBay and thought that might be the better route. I've seen the XRAID units (empty) for $99. Do they need any additional parts (other than HDDs and caddies) to get them going? The XServe RAIDs themselves do - they need 2 managers (7 drives per card), power supplies (at least one), fan trays (two). Alot of the ones I've seen on ebay and the likes are missing pieces. Plus, you can't do larger drives (500GB) in the earlier models. To actually hook them up to a computer, you need a fibre channel card for the desktop - either an Apple branded 2G one, or one with drivers under 10.4 or 10.5 (qlogic, atto, lsi). Note that 10.6 does not support the qlogics from what I've read. You'll need a PCI-X or PCIe slot regardless. You'll also need SFP 2G optics for the XServe RAID if the desktop card has integrated optics, or you'll have to use SFP to SFP cables like what the NetApps use. Each manager needs its own fibre/SFP connection to the host system as well. For a fibre channel device, its awesome, easy to setup and looks really nice in the dark. But, it is by far not what you'd call a consumer level device given its not just plug into the ethernet and it magically works. Oh, its not quiet either, and 14 drive spindles tend to generate alot of heat. :) -- Brielle Bruns The Summit Open Source Development Grouphttp://www.sosdg.org / http://www.ahbl.org -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Xserve advice?
On Jun 2, 2011, at 9:12 AM, Austin Leeds wrote: I can probably stand the noise (I prefer noise to deafening silence) As an old IT guy let me tell you that that doesn't work in the long run. Seriously. We were stuck in a small office 3 of us and between 4-15 servers and two large SCSI RAID boxes and we're all suffering some level of hearing losses and/or tinnitus. Our new office has all the servers off in another room that we spend as little time in as possible. As much as you don't like deafening silence, believe me, you'll miss it when there's a constant high-pitched noise going on in your head that you can't ever get away from. Tinnitus isn't a joke; people have killed themselves over it. I'm lucky that most of the time my case is low enough volume that I can mostly ignore it. Put the XServe off in another room and use it via Remote Desktop. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Xserve advice?
I had the same idea as you, but soon decided against it when i bought two of them. The first generation G4, and the second generation G4. The first one was a Dual 1GHZ, and the second was a Dual 1.33GHZ. The first one was LOUD. I mean LOUD. The second one, was still loud, but better than the first. The lack of an AGP slot sucks for the G4, and unless you use a USB, or FireWire hard drive, you will have to spend quite a bit on an Apple Drive Module for it. -Jonas -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Xserve advice?
Hi Austin I'm using an XServe G5 2·0 GHz single processor as a desktop machine, running Leopard client. (It came with 10.3 server but I wanted Leopard for TimeMachine and didn't need server capabilities. To be honest I just wanted the coolness of having my own XServe/shiny Apple joy, although learning how to set up server stuff would have been a bonus.) It's a bit slow but it does the job - mostly. It does need a decent video card (yet to be purchased) - without it games just lead to black screens of death. Also, even though I've built a cage to hold it on the side of my desk which diverts some of the fan noise away from me, it's still distractingly noisy. IIRC, G4 takes 4 PATA disks, while I know the G5 takes 3 SATA disks. Mine came with a CD-reader but I've swapped that for a laptop CD/DVD reader. There may be limits on the total drive capacity: - G4, everymac.com says 'up to four 180 GB ATA/100 hard drives' - G5, everymac.com says 'up to 750 GB of storage with three 250 GB SATA hard drives'. However, XServe dealers who serviced my XServe say up to 3 by 1TB is feasible. Overall, if you can find a way of dealing with noise (maybe put a wall between you and the XServe, then look for long keyboard, pointer, monitor cables and a big masonry drill - or just put an ethernet connection to your switch/hub and control it via your normal quiet desktop machine), want a high capacity machine that can support several drives and looks pretty cool, I'd go for the G5. However, you may find a Mac Pro quieter - and it has capacity for up to 4 drives, already will have a working video card. Finally, as I'm sure you've realised, G5s are limited to Leopard. Hope this helps Bruce -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Xserve advice?
Thanks, that helps a lot. I actually compute most of the time with a big box fan on full next to me, so I don't think the sound will be that much of an issue. :) On a side note, the admin's office at my college is also the server room, and he's in there quite a bit of the time. His hobby? Building and rebuilding speakers! Right now, I'm in the midst of a project for my college newspaper— we're wanting to expand our storage and give ourselves more local control over it, since the lone Mac admin works on another campus and is overworked as it is. I figured I would buy an Xserve for myself, bring it to campus to test it, and the newspaper staff and IT and I would discuss our options from there. Then I'd use my Xserve for VPN and backups and whatnot. And yes, it's probably going to go somewhere out of sight and out of earshot, to be remotely managed by my iPad. The G5 sounds best. So, is that 3 one terabyte drives, or three drives to achieve one terabyte? On Jun 2, 3:13 pm, Bruce Ryan bruce.r...@mac.com wrote: Hi Austin I'm using an XServe G5 2·0 GHz single processor as a desktop machine, running Leopard client. (It came with 10.3 server but I wanted Leopard for TimeMachine and didn't need server capabilities. To be honest I just wanted the coolness of having my own XServe/shiny Apple joy, although learning how to set up server stuff would have been a bonus.) It's a bit slow but it does the job - mostly. It does need a decent video card (yet to be purchased) - without it games just lead to black screens of death. Also, even though I've built a cage to hold it on the side of my desk which diverts some of the fan noise away from me, it's still distractingly noisy. IIRC, G4 takes 4 PATA disks, while I know the G5 takes 3 SATA disks. Mine came with a CD-reader but I've swapped that for a laptop CD/DVD reader. There may be limits on the total drive capacity: - G4, everymac.com says 'up to four 180 GB ATA/100 hard drives' - G5, everymac.com says 'up to 750 GB of storage with three 250 GB SATA hard drives'. However, XServe dealers who serviced my XServe say up to 3 by 1TB is feasible. Overall, if you can find a way of dealing with noise (maybe put a wall between you and the XServe, then look for long keyboard, pointer, monitor cables and a big masonry drill - or just put an ethernet connection to your switch/hub and control it via your normal quiet desktop machine), want a high capacity machine that can support several drives and looks pretty cool, I'd go for the G5. However, you may find a Mac Pro quieter - and it has capacity for up to 4 drives, already will have a working video card. Finally, as I'm sure you've realised, G5s are limited to Leopard. Hope this helps Bruce -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Xserve advice?
That really depends on you. What all are you looking to do/be able to do with it? What type of server are you wanting to run, and what mostly would you be doing for the workstation aspect of it. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Xserve advice?
On Jun 1, 2011, at 9:20 PM, Austin Leeds wrote: Hi all, I'm thinking of buying an Xserve to replace my old desktop PC (a Pentium III 733 MHz), but I've never used or even seen one before in person. I've heard they're usable as desktops, if you've got the room and a good video card—and my room has spaces that would be more blade- server friendly than regular desktop-friendly. Servers are loud. Really really loud. I had the misfortune of having to work in a small space with a bunch of 'em for a couple years and I've got a case of tinnitus to show for it. They belong off in a back room, accessed remotely, imo. -- Bruce Johnson Wherever you go, there you are B. Banzai, PhD -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
