Re: [Audyssey] the value of a program - Re: Moderator ImportantMessage
On 18 Nov 2013, at 00:08, Charles Rivard wrote: > As for the fact that you get messages from people that they just woke up and > stuff like that, I blame that on the authors, not the method of > communication. Just like when people send garbage Emails, it's not the fault > of the Email client. It's the fault of the sender. Hey everyone, I just woke up, and you should all know that I'm now about to have a cup of tea and a jam dodger. :) I have to disagree though that Facebook isn't hugely responsible for this, because it's all about social networking with the people you know, and a good few that you don't, and fundamentally emphasises intimacy over content. In that respect, it's like a gigantic message board that you and your friends share, but for all the world to see. Twitter, at least for me, once you've got over the fact that there's an awful lot of dross on it, it's a simple matter of configuring your notifications and following list accordingly, to use it as an easy access communication tool. You can also use lists, to refine your own personal news bulletins, should the need be there (I have a list that I use exclusively for news that I want to read while I'm out, but fire up the main client while I'm home to pull in the lot and chat a bit). I consider my Twitter friends actual friends in the sense of sharing a common interest and outward personality, that's people I could deal with in real life, whereas F acebook's definition of "Friend" is just "Someone I associate with". Add Facebook's privacy invasions to the list, and it (and Google Plus, and all the others) are a definite no-no for me. I do wish more blind people were on Twitter, because it's a great way of getting the word out even if it's only 140 characters, but understand why they choose to refrain. I wish less of them were on Facebook. Cheers, Sabahattin --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Moderator Important Message
Mailing lists and forums are just different, and serve different purposes. While I can confidently claim to prefer mailing lists for lots of technical reasons, and have on more than one occasion in the past declared my hatred of forums on this list, I strongly suggest people actually have a good poke around on forum.audiogames.net before dismissing the idea. It really is a nice, well-managed forum that is light on bloat, and in fact is very friendly to javascriptless, mobile browsers including most blindness note-takers. It's a great place to hang out when I have the time, and in fact I generally prefer to catch up there, due to the archival and organisational properties that are inherent to the forum. I have also set up a list specifically to reflect the forum postings back to me in email, so that I can follow in my email clients, which is very quick and convenient; once you've logged in at the forum, just click the link to reply to each incoming message, and you wouldn't notice you were using a forum at all. That list, for those who want the same treatment, is at: http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector The main advantages of a mailing list are choices of email client, easy cross-participation in multiple lists, speed for the user in receiving and sending messages and robustness of the discussion against downtime or censorship. This latter is sadly less and less true as more people move to Google Groups or whatever, and also due to the spam filters of various brain-dead providers. The main advantages of a forum are generally better etiquette (especially where blindness lists are concerned, I find), intuitive archival and organisation of threads, centralised features such as voting or editing of posts, and a much lower curve to discovery and participation which leads to a broader base of contributions and a somewhat more relaxed attitude to off-topic discussion and community. Which one you prefer, or whether you prefer both, is so much about preference that trying to decide which is "Better" is unlikely to produce a useful conclusion for everybody. I also need to point out that s ome software now has the ability to gateway natively to mailing lists, which would mean that if people liked the interface, it would certainly be possible to support both forum and list simultaneously. Mozilla does this, offering NNTP, email and HTTP access to discussions, and it seems to work for them. HTH. Cheers, Sabahattin --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] the value of a program - Re: ModeratorImportantMessage
Hi charlse. That might be true, but it just seems facebook is used far more for that sort of thing than E-mail, and also, when I last tried it, where as E-mail you can filter out the rubbish, faceiook your just shown a hole slue of things, most of which is! garbage, or at least trivia your probably not interested in unless your casually friends with that person in real life and care about their everyday existance or are interested in that subject. of course for sighted people who can skim read at a greater rate and thus can take in information quickly, acebook having a scattered interface matters less, but I found myself having to waid through aa bazillion friend requests and post from people about what time they get up before I found something interesting was quite a pest. All the best, Dark. - Original Message - From: "Charles Rivard" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 12:08 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] the value of a program - Re: ModeratorImportantMessage As for the fact that you get messages from people that they just woke up and stuff like that, I blame that on the authors, not the method of communication. Just like when people send garbage Emails, it's not the fault of the Email client. It's the fault of the sender. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: "dark" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2013 4:49 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] the value of a program - Re: Moderator ImportantMessage Well #Charlse, much as with forums and mail, twitter and facebook have their own bennifits and flaws. I personally really dislike facebooks' interface and the fact that it runs slowly on any machine I've tried it on. I also dislike the fact it throws so much information at me, most of which I don't want such as suggested contacts or friend requests or the like, not to mention all those people who just write on facebook about what they've had for breakfast or whatever which unfortunately you still! have to see lots of ieven if you don't want to. Twitter I've never tried but I look on a bit more favourably since you can at least just recieve what tweets you want, however your still limited in size of tweet and what you do with it, and the fact that twitter comes in when you don't necessarily want rather than forum or mails which you can check when you wish or not when you don't. I'll also say for actual formal communications E-mails are great. They come automatically with time and date, and you can attach things to them, indeed I communicate with my university, both in terms of having mails of what's going on and in terms of submitting my thesis or communicating with my department entirely! through E-mail, as does my brothers' law firm, so all these things have a use depending upon what you want from them and what your personal likes or dislikes are. All the best, Drk. - Original Message - From: "Charles Rivard" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2013 6:52 PM Subject: [Audyssey] the value of a program - Re: Moderator Important Message I know someone who was exclusively using Twitter and Facebook. He did not use Email because, quote, "It is old fashioned and obsolete. You should get with the times.", end quote. He wanted to have someone play some of his recordings in an Internet chat room for people to hear. Nobody could receive the files because nobody used Facebook or Twitter. He complained because he could not send them to anyone, and, finally, after this went on for about 6 months every week, he set up an Email account. Whether it might seem obsolete to the younger crowd, it is accessible to everyone, so is not something that should be done away with just because it has been around for a long time. What works works, and if it does work, don't discard it. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: "dark" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2013 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Moderator Important Message Hi Tom. Well I know people do comment about mailing lists being old fashioned, but actually there are still lots of them around and likely to be more considdering that people now get E-mail on their tablets, phones, even tvs, heck, there are still! some very well established newsgroups out there, it's all about choice hwich is why I'm in favour of keeping the mailing list open. if google groups is no longer workable (I admit it's been a while since I looked into their interface), then another system might work, though obviously that's a matter for those who run the list to decide upon since it's yourself and the other mods who must deal with the interface and admin console. Indeed, this is a major difference between mailing lists and forums, different forums can change access dramatically, and
Re: [Audyssey] the value of a program - Re: Moderator ImportantMessage
Hi Charles, True enough. It is not the technology at fault but how it is used. I admit even I tend to post things to Facebook etc that I would not put in an e-mail such as what I had for supper or that I am listening to a certain book. I've come to realize for most people Facebook is an informal form of communication and you can pretty much post anything you want to. Some of it is important, but most of it is worthless idle chatter. Cheers! On 11/17/13, Charles Rivard wrote: > As for the fact that you get messages from people that they just woke up and > > stuff like that, I blame that on the authors, not the method of > communication. Just like when people send garbage Emails, it's not the > fault of the Email client. It's the fault of the sender. > > --- > Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] the value of a program - Re: Moderator ImportantMessage
As for the fact that you get messages from people that they just woke up and stuff like that, I blame that on the authors, not the method of communication. Just like when people send garbage Emails, it's not the fault of the Email client. It's the fault of the sender. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: "dark" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2013 4:49 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] the value of a program - Re: Moderator ImportantMessage Well #Charlse, much as with forums and mail, twitter and facebook have their own bennifits and flaws. I personally really dislike facebooks' interface and the fact that it runs slowly on any machine I've tried it on. I also dislike the fact it throws so much information at me, most of which I don't want such as suggested contacts or friend requests or the like, not to mention all those people who just write on facebook about what they've had for breakfast or whatever which unfortunately you still! have to see lots of ieven if you don't want to. Twitter I've never tried but I look on a bit more favourably since you can at least just recieve what tweets you want, however your still limited in size of tweet and what you do with it, and the fact that twitter comes in when you don't necessarily want rather than forum or mails which you can check when you wish or not when you don't. I'll also say for actual formal communications E-mails are great. They come automatically with time and date, and you can attach things to them, indeed I communicate with my university, both in terms of having mails of what's going on and in terms of submitting my thesis or communicating with my department entirely! through E-mail, as does my brothers' law firm, so all these things have a use depending upon what you want from them and what your personal likes or dislikes are. All the best, Drk. - Original Message - From: "Charles Rivard" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2013 6:52 PM Subject: [Audyssey] the value of a program - Re: Moderator Important Message I know someone who was exclusively using Twitter and Facebook. He did not use Email because, quote, "It is old fashioned and obsolete. You should get with the times.", end quote. He wanted to have someone play some of his recordings in an Internet chat room for people to hear. Nobody could receive the files because nobody used Facebook or Twitter. He complained because he could not send them to anyone, and, finally, after this went on for about 6 months every week, he set up an Email account. Whether it might seem obsolete to the younger crowd, it is accessible to everyone, so is not something that should be done away with just because it has been around for a long time. What works works, and if it does work, don't discard it. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: "dark" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2013 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Moderator Important Message Hi Tom. Well I know people do comment about mailing lists being old fashioned, but actually there are still lots of them around and likely to be more considdering that people now get E-mail on their tablets, phones, even tvs, heck, there are still! some very well established newsgroups out there, it's all about choice hwich is why I'm in favour of keeping the mailing list open. if google groups is no longer workable (I admit it's been a while since I looked into their interface), then another system might work, though obviously that's a matter for those who run the list to decide upon since it's yourself and the other mods who must deal with the interface and admin console. Indeed, this is a major difference between mailing lists and forums, different forums can change access dramatically, and I've seen everything from very accessible systems like Punbb, (which audiogames.net uses), to all sorts of silly things such as proboards or even custom built systems. Forums really can change in access and usability as much as web pages can, where as a mailing list just gives out E-mails to members and it's accessibility is thus entirely dependent upon a members' E-mail client, which again is a major advantage. All the best, Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail
Re: [Audyssey] the value of a program - Re: Moderator Important Message
Well #Charlse, much as with forums and mail, twitter and facebook have their own bennifits and flaws. I personally really dislike facebooks' interface and the fact that it runs slowly on any machine I've tried it on. I also dislike the fact it throws so much information at me, most of which I don't want such as suggested contacts or friend requests or the like, not to mention all those people who just write on facebook about what they've had for breakfast or whatever which unfortunately you still! have to see lots of ieven if you don't want to. Twitter I've never tried but I look on a bit more favourably since you can at least just recieve what tweets you want, however your still limited in size of tweet and what you do with it, and the fact that twitter comes in when you don't necessarily want rather than forum or mails which you can check when you wish or not when you don't. I'll also say for actual formal communications E-mails are great. They come automatically with time and date, and you can attach things to them, indeed I communicate with my university, both in terms of having mails of what's going on and in terms of submitting my thesis or communicating with my department entirely! through E-mail, as does my brothers' law firm, so all these things have a use depending upon what you want from them and what your personal likes or dislikes are. All the best, Drk. - Original Message - From: "Charles Rivard" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2013 6:52 PM Subject: [Audyssey] the value of a program - Re: Moderator Important Message I know someone who was exclusively using Twitter and Facebook. He did not use Email because, quote, "It is old fashioned and obsolete. You should get with the times.", end quote. He wanted to have someone play some of his recordings in an Internet chat room for people to hear. Nobody could receive the files because nobody used Facebook or Twitter. He complained because he could not send them to anyone, and, finally, after this went on for about 6 months every week, he set up an Email account. Whether it might seem obsolete to the younger crowd, it is accessible to everyone, so is not something that should be done away with just because it has been around for a long time. What works works, and if it does work, don't discard it. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: "dark" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2013 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Moderator Important Message Hi Tom. Well I know people do comment about mailing lists being old fashioned, but actually there are still lots of them around and likely to be more considdering that people now get E-mail on their tablets, phones, even tvs, heck, there are still! some very well established newsgroups out there, it's all about choice hwich is why I'm in favour of keeping the mailing list open. if google groups is no longer workable (I admit it's been a while since I looked into their interface), then another system might work, though obviously that's a matter for those who run the list to decide upon since it's yourself and the other mods who must deal with the interface and admin console. Indeed, this is a major difference between mailing lists and forums, different forums can change access dramatically, and I've seen everything from very accessible systems like Punbb, (which audiogames.net uses), to all sorts of silly things such as proboards or even custom built systems. Forums really can change in access and usability as much as web pages can, where as a mailing list just gives out E-mails to members and it's accessibility is thus entirely dependent upon a members' E-mail client, which again is a major advantage. All the best, Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Moderator Important Message
Hi. Look at it like this. I haven't been on the audyssey forum in years. I don't think to go out and navigate to a webpage and click my way through threads over coffee or anything like that. It only works on me if I have the content thrown at me where I can group by conversation and hit delete on the nonimportant stuff and read what's left. My suggestion is google groups if you switch to another list manager. Cheers, Sent with thunderbird 17.0.8 portable On 11/14/2013 9:39 PM, Thomas Ward wrote: Hello, List: I know a number of you have been having technical issues with the Audyssey Mailing List ever since we changed servers a few months back. Some of you have been unsubscribed from the list without warning or notification, some of your accounts were automatically put on no mail by Mailman, some of you could get list mail but were unable to post messages, and some of you haven't had any problems at all. Despite numerous attempts to uncover the root of all these problems no one as yet has found out what is causing these and other technical issues. Just this afternoon another list member has come to me with problems with his subscription. As usual I have turned it over to the server admins in hopes that a solution may finally be found. If not then I think it might be in our best interests to think about a different solution. What I mean by that is simply this. I know that many of you are here because you would prefer a mailing list over a forum. However, it seems for whatever reason Mailman, the software we use to run the list, is having problems making it a hassle for many list members, the admins, and myself to keep this going as is. If we can not resolve the technical problems in the next few days I wonder how many of you would strongly object to me replacing this list with an Audyssey forum similar to what Audiogames.net has now. Alternatively if you strongly object to a forum I suppose we could go back to Yahoo Groups or try Google Groups instead. Any thoughts? Sincerely, Thomas Ward Owner-Moderator of the Audyssey Mailing List --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] the value of a program - Re: Moderator Important Message
Hi Charles, Well, sad to say that person is obviously a bonehead, because e-mail is not old fashioned or obsolete. Plenty of people still use it, and e-mail has to a large part replaced standard postal mail. Very few people send things by post, and those that do are usually bill collectors and advertisers. Most people send things like recipes, jokes, resumes, and so on via e-mail. There are plenty of e-magazines that post monthly subscriptions via e-mail too. Anyone who says e-mail is obsolete is an idiot. However, I know the type you speak of quite well. Back when I was in college I met more than a few people who would put people down for all kinds of things. I was often accused of being "old fashioned" because I didn't listen to the latest music, didn't wear the latest clothes, or whatever. They always struck me as insecure, because they had to show off to feel good about themselves and act like they were cooler and smarter than everyone else. In reality all they did was show off their utter stupidity to people who were a bit older and wiser than them. The thing is the people who have such biases tend to be younger people who haven't lived long enough to realize the world could care less how hip, cool, or up to date they are with technology. I like Facebook and Twitter myself, find advantages with social media, bud it is by no means a replacement for e-mail. I merely use the communication format which suits my needs at the time. Cheers! On 11/17/13, Charles Rivard wrote: > I know someone who was exclusively using Twitter and Facebook. He did not > use Email because, quote, "It is old fashioned and obsolete. You should get > > with the times.", end quote. He wanted to have someone play some of his > recordings in an Internet chat room for people to hear. Nobody could > receive the files because nobody used Facebook or Twitter. He complained > because he could not send them to anyone, and, finally, after this went on > for about 6 months every week, he set up an Email account. Whether it might > > seem obsolete to the younger crowd, it is accessible to everyone, so is not > > something that should be done away with just because it has been around for > > a long time. What works works, and if it does work, don't discard it. > > --- > Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] the value of a program - Re: Moderator Important Message
Question...Why do things have to go out of time frame? am an anthropology enthusiast so I find these kinds of things fascinating. I admit I like many of the older stuff while advancing some things. Who was this person you speak of, someone from Generation X, Y or Z? On 11/17/2013 10:52 AM, Charles Riva wrote: I know someone who was exclusively using Twitter and Facebook. He did not use Email because, quote, "It is old fashioned and obsolete. You should get with the times.", end quote. He wanted to have someone play some of his recordings in an Internet chat room for people to hear. Nobody could receive the files because nobody used Facebook or Twitter. He complained because he could not send them to anyone, and, finally, after this went on for about 6 months every week, he set up an Email account. Whether it might seem obsolete to the younger crowd, it is accessible to everyone, so is not something that should be done away with just because it has been around for a long time. What works works, and if it does work, don't discard it. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: "dark" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2013 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Moderator Important Message Hi Tom. Well I know people do comment about mailing lists being old fashioned, but actually there are still lots of them around and likely to be more considdering that people now get E-mail on their tablets, phones, even tvs, heck, there are still! some very well established newsgroups out there, it's all about choice hwich is why I'm in favour of keeping the mailing list open. if google groups is no longer workable (I admit it's been a while since I looked into their interface), then another system might work, though obviously that's a matter for those who run the list to decide upon since it's yourself and the other mods who must deal with the interface and admin console. Indeed, this is a major difference between mailing lists and forums, different forums can change access dramatically, and I've seen everything from very accessible systems like Punbb, (which audiogames.net uses), to all sorts of silly things such as proboards or even custom built systems. Forums really can change in access and usability as much as web pages can, where as a mailing list just gives out E-mails to members and it's accessibility is thus entirely dependent upon a members' E-mail client, which again is a major advantage. All the best, Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Moderator Important Message
Hi Dark, Well, I certainly see the advantages and disadvantages of both which is why I put the question to the list. I like forums myself personally, but I also agree there are advantages to a mailing list that others prefer. Its not a question of right or wrong but simply a matter of preference. As I am all for preference I agree that keeping the list open as an alternative to the Audio Games forum is a good idea. Especially, since there are some people who absolutely dislike and refuse to use forums, but are quite happy with a list format. I have no problem with giving them what they want as I can use either one, and I see the advantages in a mailing list even if some people do not. Cheers! On 11/17/13, dark wrote: > Hi Tom. > > That is true, though bare in mind just as you as list moderator need to > monitor list traffic for ontopic subjects, equally I do spend a surprisingly > > large amount of my own time on audiogames.net booting threads into the right > > area of the forum, since some people have a habbit of getting things wrong > however well you explain the categories and will post about random game > ideas with no released information in new releases, or will ask about > something to do with games in the offtopic room. > > As I said myself I see advantages and disadvantages both ways which is why > in this case I do agree with the rest of the members that it's worth having > > both a forum (ie the audiogames.net one), and a mailing list (ie this one), > > available so people have the choice for one or either or indeed both! :D. > > All the best, > > Dark. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] the value of a program - Re: Moderator Important Message
I know someone who was exclusively using Twitter and Facebook. He did not use Email because, quote, "It is old fashioned and obsolete. You should get with the times.", end quote. He wanted to have someone play some of his recordings in an Internet chat room for people to hear. Nobody could receive the files because nobody used Facebook or Twitter. He complained because he could not send them to anyone, and, finally, after this went on for about 6 months every week, he set up an Email account. Whether it might seem obsolete to the younger crowd, it is accessible to everyone, so is not something that should be done away with just because it has been around for a long time. What works works, and if it does work, don't discard it. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: "dark" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2013 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Moderator Important Message Hi Tom. Well I know people do comment about mailing lists being old fashioned, but actually there are still lots of them around and likely to be more considdering that people now get E-mail on their tablets, phones, even tvs, heck, there are still! some very well established newsgroups out there, it's all about choice hwich is why I'm in favour of keeping the mailing list open. if google groups is no longer workable (I admit it's been a while since I looked into their interface), then another system might work, though obviously that's a matter for those who run the list to decide upon since it's yourself and the other mods who must deal with the interface and admin console. Indeed, this is a major difference between mailing lists and forums, different forums can change access dramatically, and I've seen everything from very accessible systems like Punbb, (which audiogames.net uses), to all sorts of silly things such as proboards or even custom built systems. Forums really can change in access and usability as much as web pages can, where as a mailing list just gives out E-mails to members and it's accessibility is thus entirely dependent upon a members' E-mail client, which again is a major advantage. All the best, Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Moderator Important Message
Hi Tom. That is true, though bare in mind just as you as list moderator need to monitor list traffic for ontopic subjects, equally I do spend a surprisingly large amount of my own time on audiogames.net booting threads into the right area of the forum, since some people have a habbit of getting things wrong however well you explain the categories and will post about random game ideas with no released information in new releases, or will ask about something to do with games in the offtopic room. As I said myself I see advantages and disadvantages both ways which is why in this case I do agree with the rest of the members that it's worth having both a forum (ie the audiogames.net one), and a mailing list (ie this one), available so people have the choice for one or either or indeed both! :D. All the best, Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Moderator Important Message
Hi Dark, Lol! That's funny. I just asked my dog to find a gremlin and she just lifted her head, gave me a doggy look, and went back to sleep. Either she doesn't know what one looks like or doesn't care. Its noon and probably near her nap time. Cheers! On 11/17/13, dark wrote: > Hi Tom. > > Well at least in britain, gremlin legends started as a way to explain the > various faults and breakdowns experienced by plane pilots in the second > world war. It started out as a bit of a joke, indeed when I was quite young > > I once knewa vicar who was himself a pilot during the war and used to tell > > myself and other childrenn Gremlin stories :D.. Then Rohald dahl, himself a > > plane pilot decided to write a screen play story based on that idea of > Gremlins for Walt Disney in the mid 70's, albeit that had nothing to do with > > the later films you mention accept the name, albiet I do own both Gremlins > films on dvd and rather enjoy them, as they were films I grew up with (I > even used to have an audio book of the novelization read by none other than > > the most famous of all Doctor who actors, Tom Baker). > > It's actually still common in Britain, if there are lots of electric faults > > to say "oh we've got a gremlin" indeed this last weekend while I was staying > > at my parents my laptop had a user account error, (why I'm only just picking > > up my mail after getting back to my flat), my mum's video camera broke and! > > our sky tv box froze, so my mum said we must have a gremlin in the > house, I even tried askking my mum's dog to find it, but she was a > little confused, she did however go off runing around the house looking, so > > clearly Dogs know what gremlins are too :D. > > All the best, > > Dark. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Draconis Releases DoItWrite 1.0
Bought the game earlier and wow it is very good indeed. This will certainly challenge me when learning to handwrite. I can handwrite after being encouraged to at school but it's squiggly at best. Also drawing on the screen is something relatively new to most of us I think. Well done guys and keep it up! E-mail Facebook and iMessage christopher...@gmail.com On 17/11/2013 15:38, dark wrote: Wow, sounds like a good and interesting thing, people always say my signature looks chinese, it'll be interesting to see if this improves it. Is there an audio podcast or demonstration that people could have a listen to before trying the game? All the best, Drk. - Original Message - From: "Draconis" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2013 10:42 PM Subject: [Audyssey] Draconis Releases DoItWrite 1.0 Greetings gamers, We are pleased to announce the immediate availability of our first application for iOS! DoItWrite is an educational tool and game to teach visually impaired users of iOS 7's VoiceOver screen reader how to draw printed letters and numbers for use with VoiceOver's handwriting feature in iOS 7. Learn to draw lowercase letters, uppercase letters;;, and numbers for use with iOS 7's VoiceOver handwriting feature! This app is primarily intended for the blind or visually impaired, teachers or instructors of same, and other users of iOS 7's VoiceOver screen reader. Many blind or visually impaired people are not familiar with the shapes of printed letters or numbers. DoItWrite teaches you how to draw them in a simple way that has the best chance of being correctly recognized by VoiceOver, even if you have never learned the shapes of the characters previously. Once you get them down, practice your speed and accuracy with a fun game to blast characters as they tumble down the screen! * Learn how to activate the VoiceOver handwriting feature in iOS 7 * Learn how to draw lowercase and uppercase letters, as well as numbers in a simple and accurate way. * Practice your newly acquired skills by blasting letters and numbers as they tumble down the screen. * Use the app to improve your onscreen typing skills by using the keyboard during game play. * Automatic feedback and coach via audio queues and speech output. * DoItWrite automatically detects when VoiceOver is not running, and permits the tutorial to be browsed with the onscreen keyboard. Great for sighted teachers and tutors! * Share your game scores with others. * Many ways to customize your learning experience. DoItWrite is available on the iOS App Store for $1.99 USD. (Prices will vary for your local currency.) http://appstore.com/doitwrite For more information, visit us online at http://DracoEnt.com Happy gaming. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Moderator Important Message
Hi Dark, Well, I don't think mailing lists are old fashioned per say I just personally feel forums do have the advantage of supporting more members as well as being able to organize threads by topic. As you know on Audiogames.net there are different categories such as general, new releases, off topic, etc which helps separate things for the forum users. If a user has no interest in off topic messages he or she can go directly to general or new releases and never see the off topic messages. With a mailing list every post that is posted gets delivered to the end user which means someone like myself has to try and make sure each post stays on topic otherwise a list member could receive hundreds of junk messages that have nothing to do with games or this list. Even when a message is on topic a person is forced to receive a copy weather they have any interest in it or not where a forum gives a user more choice in what to read and not to read. So I think in that respect forums have their advantages, but I'm not going to set one up as it isn't what many list members want. Cheers! On 11/17/13, dark wrote: > Hi Tom. > > Well I know people do comment about mailing lists being old fashioned, but > actually there are still lots of them around and likely to be more > considdering that people now get E-mail on their tablets, phones, even tvs, > > heck, there are still! some very well established newsgroups out there, it's > > all about choice hwich is why I'm in favour of keeping the mailing list > open. > > if google groups is no longer workable (I admit it's been a while since I > looked into their interface), then another system might work, though > obviously that's a matter for those who run the list to decide upon since > it's yourself and the other mods who must deal with the interface and admin > > console. > > Indeed, this is a major difference between mailing lists and forums, > different forums can change access dramatically, and I've seen everything > from very accessible systems like Punbb, (which audiogames.net uses), to all > > sorts of silly things such as proboards or even custom built systems. > > Forums really can change in access and usability as much as web pages can, > where as a mailing list just gives out E-mails to members and it's > accessibility is thus entirely dependent upon a members' E-mail client, > which again is a major advantage. > > All the best, > > Dark. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Moderator Important Message
On the other hand, it's far easier to step into a conversation mid way through with a mailing list. For example, lets say we were discussing dRaconis' new title, which a none Iphone user would obviously find a less interesting topic. Then however I could see this leading back to a discussion of analogue control, and uses of the mouse etc, and games like swamp, daytona or rail racer. Now, at that point if the subject line was changed to something like "analogue game control was: say it right game from Draconis" everyone lacking an Iphone could jump in without having to read the entire initial thread and every last response as would be the case on a forum. To me, it's very much swings and roundabouts. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Draconis Releases DoItWrite 1.0
Wow, sounds like a good and interesting thing, people always say my signature looks chinese, it'll be interesting to see if this improves it. Is there an audio podcast or demonstration that people could have a listen to before trying the game? All the best, Drk. - Original Message - From: "Draconis" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2013 10:42 PM Subject: [Audyssey] Draconis Releases DoItWrite 1.0 Greetings gamers, We are pleased to announce the immediate availability of our first application for iOS! DoItWrite is an educational tool and game to teach visually impaired users of iOS 7's VoiceOver screen reader how to draw printed letters and numbers for use with VoiceOver's handwriting feature in iOS 7. Learn to draw lowercase letters, uppercase letters;;, and numbers for use with iOS 7's VoiceOver handwriting feature! This app is primarily intended for the blind or visually impaired, teachers or instructors of same, and other users of iOS 7's VoiceOver screen reader. Many blind or visually impaired people are not familiar with the shapes of printed letters or numbers. DoItWrite teaches you how to draw them in a simple way that has the best chance of being correctly recognized by VoiceOver, even if you have never learned the shapes of the characters previously. Once you get them down, practice your speed and accuracy with a fun game to blast characters as they tumble down the screen! * Learn how to activate the VoiceOver handwriting feature in iOS 7 * Learn how to draw lowercase and uppercase letters, as well as numbers in a simple and accurate way. * Practice your newly acquired skills by blasting letters and numbers as they tumble down the screen. * Use the app to improve your onscreen typing skills by using the keyboard during game play. * Automatic feedback and coach via audio queues and speech output. * DoItWrite automatically detects when VoiceOver is not running, and permits the tutorial to be browsed with the onscreen keyboard. Great for sighted teachers and tutors! * Share your game scores with others. * Many ways to customize your learning experience. DoItWrite is available on the iOS App Store for $1.99 USD. (Prices will vary for your local currency.) http://appstore.com/doitwrite For more information, visit us online at http://DracoEnt.com Happy gaming. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Moderator Important Message
Hi Tom. Well at least in britain, gremlin legends started as a way to explain the various faults and breakdowns experienced by plane pilots in the second world war. It started out as a bit of a joke, indeed when I was quite young I once knewa vicar who was himself a pilot during the war and used to tell myself and other childrenn Gremlin stories :D.. Then Rohald dahl, himself a plane pilot decided to write a screen play story based on that idea of Gremlins for Walt Disney in the mid 70's, albeit that had nothing to do with the later films you mention accept the name, albiet I do own both Gremlins films on dvd and rather enjoy them, as they were films I grew up with (I even used to have an audio book of the novelization read by none other than the most famous of all Doctor who actors, Tom Baker). It's actually still common in Britain, if there are lots of electric faults to say "oh we've got a gremlin" indeed this last weekend while I was staying at my parents my laptop had a user account error, (why I'm only just picking up my mail after getting back to my flat), my mum's video camera broke and! our sky tv box froze, so my mum said we must have a gremlin in the house, I even tried askking my mum's dog to find it, but she was a little confused, she did however go off runing around the house looking, so clearly Dogs know what gremlins are too :D. All the best, Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Moderator Important Message
Hi Tom. Well I know people do comment about mailing lists being old fashioned, but actually there are still lots of them around and likely to be more considdering that people now get E-mail on their tablets, phones, even tvs, heck, there are still! some very well established newsgroups out there, it's all about choice hwich is why I'm in favour of keeping the mailing list open. if google groups is no longer workable (I admit it's been a while since I looked into their interface), then another system might work, though obviously that's a matter for those who run the list to decide upon since it's yourself and the other mods who must deal with the interface and admin console. Indeed, this is a major difference between mailing lists and forums, different forums can change access dramatically, and I've seen everything from very accessible systems like Punbb, (which audiogames.net uses), to all sorts of silly things such as proboards or even custom built systems. Forums really can change in access and usability as much as web pages can, where as a mailing list just gives out E-mails to members and it's accessibility is thus entirely dependent upon a members' E-mail client, which again is a major advantage. All the best, Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Draconis Releases DoItWrite 1.0
That sounds like a fun and useful App. Good job and congrats on making it into Apple's environment. On 11/16/13, Bryan Peterson wrote: > I may have to look into that myself. I've also been blind my entire 33 years > > and could never quite get the hang of this writing print business. I can > sign my first and last initials but even that's probably not very > consistent. > > > > Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul, > Ash nazg thrakatulûk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul. > -Original Message- > From: Teresa Cochran > Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2013 6:36 PM > To: Gamers Discussion list > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Draconis Releases DoItWrite 1.0 > > Yes, it’s instructive and fun. Just what I needed, being blind from birth > and though familiar with letter and number shapes from playing with alphabet > > blocks as a kid, I haven’t written them much. This is good practice, since > I’d > like to enter my passcode without the thing blabbing to the rest of the > world. :) > > Great job, guys. > > Teresa > > "The Golden Age of science fiction is twelve."--Pete Graham > > On Nov 16, 2013, at 4:11 PM, Thomas Ward wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Wow! Sounds like a neat little app. Now, if only I had an iPhone I'd >> give it a try. :D >> >> Cheers! >> >> On 11/16/13, Draconis wrote: >>> Greetings gamers, >>> >>> We are pleased to announce the immediate availability of our first >>> application for iOS! >>> >>> DoItWrite is an educational tool and game to teach visually impaired >>> users >>> of iOS 7's VoiceOver screen reader how to draw printed letters and >>> numbers >>> for use with VoiceOver's handwriting feature in iOS 7. >>> >>> Learn to draw lowercase letters, uppercase letters;;, and numbers for >>> use >>> with iOS 7's VoiceOver handwriting feature! >>> >>> This app is primarily intended for the blind or visually impaired, >>> teachers >>> or instructors of same, and other users of iOS 7's VoiceOver screen >>> reader. >>> >>> Many blind or visually impaired people are not familiar with the shapes >>> of >>> printed letters or numbers. DoItWrite teaches you how to draw them in a >>> simple way that has the best chance of being correctly recognized by >>> VoiceOver, even if you have never learned the shapes of the characters >>> previously. Once you get them down, practice your speed and accuracy with >>> >>> a >>> fun game to blast characters as they tumble down the screen! >>> >>> * Learn how to activate the VoiceOver handwriting feature in iOS 7 >>> * Learn how to draw lowercase and uppercase letters, as well as numbers >>> in a >>> simple and accurate way. >>> * Practice your newly acquired skills by blasting letters and numbers as >>> they tumble down the screen. >>> * Use the app to improve your onscreen typing skills by using the >>> keyboard >>> during game play. >>> * Automatic feedback and coach via audio queues and speech output. >>> * DoItWrite automatically detects when VoiceOver is not running, and >>> permits >>> the tutorial to be browsed with the onscreen keyboard. Great for sighted >>> teachers and tutors! >>> * Share your game scores with others. >>> * Many ways to customize your learning experience. >>> >>> DoItWrite is available on the iOS App Store for $1.99 USD. (Prices will >>> vary >>> for your local currency.) >>> >>> http://appstore.com/doitwrite >>> >>> For more information, visit us online at >>> http://DracoEnt.com >>> >>> Happy gaming. >>> >>> >>> --- >>> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >>> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >>> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >>> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >>> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >>> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. >>> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >>> list, >>> please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. >>> >> >> --- >> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. >> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >> list, >> please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > > > --- > Gamers
