Re: [Audyssey] Understanding the Pinball Concept
Hi Sharren. The way pinball works is you have a table that inclines away from you. At the bottom end towards you is the drain, ie, the place where your ball will go if you don't flip it away, a little like the goal in air hockey. Either side of the drain are two flippers, which are small flat peaces of metal or plastic that flick upwards, and can bounce a ball up the table, (though it'll inevitably roll down). The table itself is full of mechanical apparatus all designed to change how the ball moves and get score. There are pads your ball can roll over to create more score, bumpers to bounce off, spinners that spinn around when your ball hits them, parts of the table that might lower in order to give you access to higher scoring areas etc. The object is to bounce your ball around, making sure it doesn't go down the drain and scoring as much as possible. The esp pinball games for the pc from draconis are a wonderful simulation of pinball and also have great explanations of all the things you can find on tables, as well as some very funny challenges, I'd highly recommend them. I've not played the blindfold version for Ios, though I do intend to, sinse pinball (when you can hear what is happening and track where the ball is going as in the esp games), is a huge amount of fun. hth. Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] About games rolling out in a matter of a couple of months, or weeks?
Well, to be honest, they are simple games. Not that simple is always bad, but I'd love to see how he'd do a long-term game project, like an RPG or something like that. Of course, he'd have to spend a little more time writing, as the games have at least a few spelling or grammar errors, but besides that I think he'd do well. Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 12, 2016, at 11:08 PM, Sharon Hooley wrote: > > Hi, > > I must say that, although I haven't played all the Blindfold games, I've > become a fan of Kidfriendly Software! And I'm curious, how do developers, > including from this company, roll out the games so quickly? [smile) > > > > Sharon H. > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] About games rolling out in a matter of a couple of months, or weeks?
I certainly hope he eventually attempts a more complex game. Actually, there's a lot he could do with Pinball now that he has the basics pretty well down. One thing to note here is that he always seems to look for ways to reuse what he's already created. The ball physics so vital to good Pinball have been honed in previous games like bowling and his version of Skiball. It would take a whole lot longer to crank out games if he did each of even these more simple ones from scratch. Basically, developers are put in a vicious catch22 setup economically. You need to initially crank out as many games as you can in order to generate income you can invest in better assets. It's next to impossible to really make a living as a developer of games primarily for the blind. Creating games which truly engage the sighted player but still let blind people play on equal terms is no easy task. Back when I edited audyssey, we had a real problem of impatience since a lot of blind people really didn't understand the disadvantages of scale our developers operated under. Most modern apps and games enjoyed by sighted players have actual companies behind them. A good rpg would have writers, programmers, all sorts of artists, game designers and actors working on it. There might be hundreds of people. It's all too easy to face our one or two-person developers with the impossible task of creating something normally done by dozens of people. Once the audio engine from Something Else software is made available, it wouldn't surprise me if we saw some spectacular uses of it presuming changes in how iOS handles audio don't render it obsolete. These are very exciting times for blind gamers. I would never have guessed we were in for such a golden age. On 4/13/16, Devin Prater wrote: > Well, to be honest, they are simple games. Not that simple is always bad, > but I'd love to see how he'd do a long-term game project, like an RPG or > something like that. Of course, he'd have to spend a little more time > writing, as the games have at least a few spelling or grammar errors, but > besides that I think he'd do well. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Apr 12, 2016, at 11:08 PM, Sharon Hooley wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> I must say that, although I haven't played all the Blindfold games, I've >> become a fan of Kidfriendly Software! And I'm curious, how do developers, >> including from this company, roll out the games so quickly? [smile) >> >> >> >> Sharon H. >> --- >> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. >> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >> list, >> please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > -- Michael Feir Creator and presenter of Journeys of the Mind: Play is Where Community Begins http://www.michaelfeir.blogspot.ca/2015/01/journeys-of-mind-play-is-where.html Volunteer at New Horizons Peel Multicultural Centre www.peelmc.ca 2014--2015 Disability advocate Meadowvale Community Christian Reformed Church www.meadowvalecrc.ca 2013--2014 Volunteer at The Dam http://www.thedam.org 2011-2013 Twitter: mfeir Skype: michael-feir Author of Personal Power: How Accessible Computers Can Enhance Personal Life For Blind People 2006-2008 http://michaelfeir.blogspot.ca/2009/01/personal-power.html A Life of Word and Sound 2003-2007 http://michaelfeir.blogspot.ca/2009/01/life-of-word-and-sound.html Creator and former editor of Audyssey Magazine 1996-2004 Check out my blog at: http://www.michaelfeir.blogspot.ca --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] Why I build the games as I do
Michael is quite correct in how I approach the games. Basically, I build the games for all visually impaired people, most of whom do not like to play RPGs. While the games don't make much money, and certainly don't pay for my time, they do offset the out of pocket costs. I tend to re-use as much as possible in each game, to make the next game that much better. By re-using the programming code, it means I can spend my time on the differences between two games, rather than build from the ground up. And it took about two years to get there. I now have a common infrastructure between all of the games, so simple things, like settings screens or posting to facebook, twitter or game center is just a matter of including a module. Creating the original infrastructure to post to facebook, etc. took 2 or 3 weeks spread out over a year. It's general rule of thumb that any program needs to be revised and rebuilt 3 times before you get it right. At this point, the infrastructure is a that point, and most of the games have gone through 3 generations of being re-created. Mastering the physics engine enabled me to spin out a bunch of games quickly, but what always happens is that the details of the game take forever. For example, pool, which will be out in a few weeks, took only 3 days to convert from vee ball. However, it was another 3 weeks before the pool game was stable, and fun to play. I had slews of issues in the game, such as using the physics engine properly to allow 15 balls to move around and make their sounds, without it getting so slow that the sound was stuttering. Then I had to design and debug several ways to select and aim your cue stick. Then I had to create the game rules for about 6 different games. And do all of this with the ability to move it to a multi-player game some time in the future. With the multi-player infrastructure, I've re-written that about 5 times, and the latest one seems to be reliable. I prototyped the latest version on crazy 8, and then moved it to wildcard. It took about 4 days to adjust wildcard to handle it, and in the process found more flaws in the crazy 8 game, and fixed those. Then I moved the multi-player ability to road trip, and that took about 3 days, and found more flaws, so I had to fix those, and re-release crazy 8 and wildcard. I'll probably make bowling multi-player next, and hopefully that will take only 2 days. Eventually, I should be able to get adding multi-player to any game in about a day. These games could actually make enough money to employ multiple programmers, but market penetration is the killer. There are at least 20,000 blind people with iphones or ipads in the USA alone, and less than 1,000 know about my games, and 80% of those people don't buy anything. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Why I build the games as I do
@Marty, Blind people don't like rpgs? not true. Go and check audiogames.net and observe the amount of people who reply to rpg related topics, or indeed post a topic and ask. I suspect the information you got from that statement was from a local focus group, ie, society or association for the blind. Unfortunately, such places tend to have a generally older population who are primarily interested in traditional type games, however for younger gamers (and indeed those more likely to own Ios devices), something a little more modern and complex would appeal more, indeed part of the problem with audiogames development is that there is a large amount of traditional games available and not so much that is none traditional, ie, I can think of about 8 versions of blackjack over the years, but not one single version of a modern fantasy board game like Talisman, much less a ccg, collectable card game. I'll also add that rpgs don't need to be as complex as the games produced by companies like namco and squaresoft. dungeons and dragons do very well with basic mechanics, indeed most of what an rpg does mechanically can be represented by dice rolls and risk assessments, the one difference is that you have story and atmosphere added to that, as well as player progression over time. You might begin therefore by adapting some of the multiplayer fantasy themed card and board games for Ios, games like heroes of the multiverse or talisman, or creating your own along similar lines if copywrite is an issue. These would be mechanically similar to games like roadtrip, hearts or dice poker, just with more text involved, eg, a player would encounter a monster with a description of it's stats and be required to roll dice for combat, or a player would encounter a magical object card and decide whether to take it with them or not. While I do enjoy the games in the collection thus far, I am a little sorry none are games intended for longer or more complex play. There's nothing wrong with a game of hearts, blackjack etc or a quick arcade game, however unfortunately there has already been a lot of that sort of thing produced, indeed I do wonder if some people are taking the attitude "well there are several versions of hearts for pc, why should I pay to have one on my Iphone?" this isn't meant as an attack, as I said I enjoy the games for what they are, it just saddens me to see developers now producing exactly the same sorts of games we were seeing in the community 10 years ago, especially with the greater distribution and easier development inherent on Ios, indeed it's a little ironic that with one exception all of the more complex games we've seen recently for Pc or Ios have been games produced by sighted developers who have accidently created accessible games, or have included access requests in games that are %80 accessible such as adventure to fate, where as games produced with the express intention of writing games for blind people have intended to be simpler. This isn't to say "where's audio final fantasy", only that some change and advancement would be nice, especially if kidfriendly software are doing so well as a company. All the best, Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Why I build the games as I do
Hi, I want games, where I can play against people. I sometimes do try the games as they come out, but I always go back to dice world, and things of the nature. Sent from a BrailleNote - Original Message - From: "dark" Go and check audiogames.net and observe the amount of people who reply to rpg related topics, or indeed post a topic and ask. I suspect the information you got from that statement was from a local focus group, ie, society or association for the blind. Unfortunately, such places tend to have a generally older population who are primarily interested in traditional type games, however for younger gamers (and indeed those more likely to own Ios devices), something a little more modern and complex would appeal more, indeed part of the problem with audiogames development is that there is a large amount of traditional games available and not so much that is none traditional, ie, I can think of about 8 versions of blackjack over the years, but not one single version of a modern fantasy board game like Talisman, much less a ccg, collectable card game. I'll also add that rpgs don't need to be as complex as the games produced by companies like namco and squaresoft. dungeons and dragons do very well with basic mechanics, indeed most of what an rpg does mechanically can be represented by dice rolls and risk assessments, the one difference is that you have story and atmosphere added to that, as well as player progression over time. You might begin therefore by adapting some of the multiplayer fantasy themed card and board games for Ios, games like heroes of the multiverse or talisman, or creating your own along similar lines if copywrite is an issue. These would be mechanically similar to games like roadtrip, hearts or dice poker, just with more text involved, eg, a player would encounter a monster with a description of it's stats and be required to roll dice for combat, or a player would encounter a magical object card and decide whether to take it with them or not. While I do enjoy the games in the collection thus far, I am a little sorry none are games intended for longer or more complex play. There's nothing wrong with a game of hearts, blackjack etc or a quick arcade game, however unfortunately there has already been a lot of that sort of thing produced, indeed I do wonder if some people are taking the attitude "well there are several versions of hearts for pc, why should I pay to have one on my Iphone?" this isn't meant as an attack, as I said I enjoy the games for what they are, it just saddens me to see developers now producing exactly the same sorts of games we were seeing in the community 10 years ago, especially with the greater distribution and easier development inherent on Ios, indeed it's a little ironic that with one exception all of the more complex games we've seen recently for Pc or Ios have been games produced by sighted developers who have accidently created accessible games, or have included access requests in games that are %80 accessible such as adventure to fate, where as games produced with the express intention of writing games for blind people have intended to be simpler. This isn't to say "where's audio final fantasy", only that some change and advancement would be nice, especially if kidfriendly software are doing so well as a company. All the best, Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] iDevice game thoughts - Re: Why I build the games as I do
For me, lengthy and complex role playing games are not for the iPhone. The games that I would prefer are usually games that I must react to action or use dice to score, or something along that nature. A game such as chess or checkers will work well, too, although I have to have a separate board for scoping out my next move. I find it very difficult to explore a board using speech only. I very much prefer to look at the whole board without having to memorize where the pieces are. Arcade games work well on an iDevice, as well as a game in which you drive a vehicle on tracks. I have seen books of instructions for Dungeons and Dragons and other such games, and they! are! huge!! There is no way that I'm going to remember all of those rules, and games for iDevices work best if they don't require months to play. I can play Blindfold Pinball or Blindfold Bowling for either a few minutes or a few hours, and ther is an end to each game. In an RPG, it takes forever, if there is even a victor. I think it is a personal opinion, but I just don't think that an RPG is best suited for iDevice gaming. Sports games or arcade games, and dice competition games such as Dice World, or even sound oriented adventure games are more suited for them. If you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished!! -Original Message- From: dark Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2016 9:34 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Why I build the games as I do @Marty, Blind people don't like rpgs? not true. Go and check audiogames.net and observe the amount of people who reply to rpg related topics, or indeed post a topic and ask. I suspect the information you got from that statement was from a local focus group, ie, society or association for the blind. Unfortunately, such places tend to have a generally older population who are primarily interested in traditional type games, however for younger gamers (and indeed those more likely to own Ios devices), something a little more modern and complex would appeal more, indeed part of the problem with audiogames development is that there is a large amount of traditional games available and not so much that is none traditional, ie, I can think of about 8 versions of blackjack over the years, but not one single version of a modern fantasy board game like Talisman, much less a ccg, collectable card game. I'll also add that rpgs don't need to be as complex as the games produced by companies like namco and squaresoft. dungeons and dragons do very well with basic mechanics, indeed most of what an rpg does mechanically can be represented by dice rolls and risk assessments, the one difference is that you have story and atmosphere added to that, as well as player progression over time. You might begin therefore by adapting some of the multiplayer fantasy themed card and board games for Ios, games like heroes of the multiverse or talisman, or creating your own along similar lines if copywrite is an issue. These would be mechanically similar to games like roadtrip, hearts or dice poker, just with more text involved, eg, a player would encounter a monster with a description of it's stats and be required to roll dice for combat, or a player would encounter a magical object card and decide whether to take it with them or not. While I do enjoy the games in the collection thus far, I am a little sorry none are games intended for longer or more complex play. There's nothing wrong with a game of hearts, blackjack etc or a quick arcade game, however unfortunately there has already been a lot of that sort of thing produced, indeed I do wonder if some people are taking the attitude "well there are several versions of hearts for pc, why should I pay to have one on my Iphone?" this isn't meant as an attack, as I said I enjoy the games for what they are, it just saddens me to see developers now producing exactly the same sorts of games we were seeing in the community 10 years ago, especially with the greater distribution and easier development inherent on Ios, indeed it's a little ironic that with one exception all of the more complex games we've seen recently for Pc or Ios have been games produced by sighted developers who have accidently created accessible games, or have included access requests in games that are %80 accessible such as adventure to fate, where as games produced with the express intention of writing games for blind people have intended to be simpler. This isn't to say "where's audio final fantasy", only that some change and advancement would be nice, especially if kidfriendly software are doing so well as a company. All the best, Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http:/
Re: [Audyssey] Why I build the games as I do
Hi, I like complex games. Not necessarily a complex interface but a complex game never the less. I like it to have a lot of replayability, lots to discover within the game. Something that's persistent. -Original Message- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of rajmund Sent: 13 April 2016 17:03 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Why I build the games as I do Hi, I want games, where I can play against people. I sometimes do try the games as they come out, but I always go back to dice world, and things of the nature. Sent from a BrailleNote - Original Message - From: "dark" http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] iDevice game thoughts - Re: Why I build the games as I do
Oh awesome! I get to completely disagree with Charles on my brand new laptop! What glorious fun! The big advantage of computer rpgs is that you just don't have to remember all the rules. The better a grasp you have on them, the better a player you'll be. However, good computer rpgs have intuitive interfaces and handle all the complicated consequences of your decisions. For example, you might decide to talk with a character. You'd be presented with a series of choices as to what to say or how you approach the conversation. You could offer all those in simple buttons or combo boxes plus text and stats. That and good story are at the heart of every rpg. Again, no reason at all that you couldn't have that presented with Voiceover or through fully dramatized sound and human actors. The iPHONE is certainly powerful enough to handle that. Look at King of Dragon Pass. A whole lot of complexity but actually operating the game is very simple. A whole lot is going on behind the scenes as clan relationships change, different characters develop and age, and lots more. The interface allows you to focus on the areas which interest you at a given moment. The iPHONE is very well suited to such games. They are, however, harder to produce. On 4/13/16, Charles Rivard wrote: > For me, lengthy and complex role playing games are not for the iPhone. The > > games that I would prefer are usually games that I must react to action or > use dice to score, or something along that nature. A game such as chess or > > checkers will work well, too, although I have to have a separate board for > scoping out my next move. I find it very difficult to explore a board using > > speech only. I very much prefer to look at the whole board without having > to memorize where the pieces are. Arcade games work well on an iDevice, as > > well as a game in which you drive a vehicle on tracks. > > I have seen books of instructions for Dungeons and Dragons and other such > games, and they! are! huge!! There is no way that I'm going to remember all > > of those rules, and games for iDevices work best if they don't require > months to play. I can play Blindfold Pinball or Blindfold Bowling for > either a few minutes or a few hours, and ther is an end to each game. In an > > RPG, it takes forever, if there is even a victor. I think it is a personal > > opinion, but I just don't think that an RPG is best suited for iDevice > gaming. Sports games or arcade games, and dice competition games such as > Dice World, or even sound oriented adventure games are more suited for > them. > > > > > If you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished!! > -Original Message- > From: dark > Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2016 9:34 AM > To: Gamers Discussion list > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Why I build the games as I do > > @Marty, Blind people don't like rpgs? not true. > > Go and check audiogames.net and observe the amount of people who reply to > rpg related topics, or indeed post a topic and ask. I suspect the > information you got from that statement was from a local focus group, ie, > society or association for the blind. Unfortunately, such places tend to > have a generally older population who are primarily interested in > traditional type games, however for younger gamers (and indeed those more > likely to own Ios devices), something a little more modern and complex > would > appeal more, indeed part of the problem with audiogames development is that > there is a large amount of traditional games available and not so much that > is none traditional, ie, I can think of about 8 versions of blackjack over > the years, but not one single version of a modern fantasy board game like > Talisman, much less a ccg, collectable card game. > > > I'll also add that rpgs don't need to be as complex as the games produced > by > companies like namco and squaresoft. dungeons and dragons do very well with > basic mechanics, indeed most of what an rpg does mechanically can be > represented by dice rolls and risk assessments, the one difference is that > you have story and atmosphere added to that, as well as player progression > over time. > > You might begin therefore by adapting some of the multiplayer fantasy > themed > card and board games for Ios, games like heroes of the multiverse or > talisman, or creating your own along similar lines if copywrite is an > issue. > These would be mechanically similar to games like roadtrip, hearts or dice > poker, just with more text involved, eg, a player would encounter a monster > with a description of it's stats and be required to roll dice for combat, > or > a player would encounter a magical object card and decide whether to take > it > with them or not. > > While I do enjoy the games in the collection thus far, I am a little sorry > none are games intended for longer or more complex play. There's nothing > wrong with a game of hearts, blackjack etc or a quick arcade game, however > unfortunately there has already be
Re: [Audyssey] iDevice game thoughts - Re: Why I build the games as I do
Hi Charlse. I really don't see what is wrong with complex rpg games on the iPhone? look at king of dragon pass. True, casual games to whip a device out of your pocket and play are good, and there are plenty of good examples of such, however just because a device can! be a portable games playing device doesn't mean you can't use it at home, several days I've spent on Kodp, adventure to fate and some of the choiceofgames interactive stories definitely show that. All the best, Dark. - Original Message - From: "Charles Rivard" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2016 5:40 PM Subject: [Audyssey] iDevice game thoughts - Re: Why I build the games as I do For me, lengthy and complex role playing games are not for the iPhone. The games that I would prefer are usually games that I must react to action or use dice to score, or something along that nature. A game such as chess or checkers will work well, too, although I have to have a separate board for scoping out my next move. I find it very difficult to explore a board using speech only. I very much prefer to look at the whole board without having to memorize where the pieces are. Arcade games work well on an iDevice, as well as a game in which you drive a vehicle on tracks. I have seen books of instructions for Dungeons and Dragons and other such games, and they! are! huge!! There is no way that I'm going to remember all of those rules, and games for iDevices work best if they don't require months to play. I can play Blindfold Pinball or Blindfold Bowling for either a few minutes or a few hours, and ther is an end to each game. In an RPG, it takes forever, if there is even a victor. I think it is a personal opinion, but I just don't think that an RPG is best suited for iDevice gaming. Sports games or arcade games, and dice competition games such as Dice World, or even sound oriented adventure games are more suited for them. If you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished!! -Original Message- From: dark Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2016 9:34 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Why I build the games as I do @Marty, Blind people don't like rpgs? not true. Go and check audiogames.net and observe the amount of people who reply to rpg related topics, or indeed post a topic and ask. I suspect the information you got from that statement was from a local focus group, ie, society or association for the blind. Unfortunately, such places tend to have a generally older population who are primarily interested in traditional type games, however for younger gamers (and indeed those more likely to own Ios devices), something a little more modern and complex would appeal more, indeed part of the problem with audiogames development is that there is a large amount of traditional games available and not so much that is none traditional, ie, I can think of about 8 versions of blackjack over the years, but not one single version of a modern fantasy board game like Talisman, much less a ccg, collectable card game. I'll also add that rpgs don't need to be as complex as the games produced by companies like namco and squaresoft. dungeons and dragons do very well with basic mechanics, indeed most of what an rpg does mechanically can be represented by dice rolls and risk assessments, the one difference is that you have story and atmosphere added to that, as well as player progression over time. You might begin therefore by adapting some of the multiplayer fantasy themed card and board games for Ios, games like heroes of the multiverse or talisman, or creating your own along similar lines if copywrite is an issue. These would be mechanically similar to games like roadtrip, hearts or dice poker, just with more text involved, eg, a player would encounter a monster with a description of it's stats and be required to roll dice for combat, or a player would encounter a magical object card and decide whether to take it with them or not. While I do enjoy the games in the collection thus far, I am a little sorry none are games intended for longer or more complex play. There's nothing wrong with a game of hearts, blackjack etc or a quick arcade game, however unfortunately there has already been a lot of that sort of thing produced, indeed I do wonder if some people are taking the attitude "well there are several versions of hearts for pc, why should I pay to have one on my Iphone?" this isn't meant as an attack, as I said I enjoy the games for what they are, it just saddens me to see developers now producing exactly the same sorts of games we were seeing in the community 10 years ago, especially with the greater distribution and easier development inherent on Ios, indeed it's a little ironic that with one exception all of the more complex games we've seen recently for Pc or Ios have been games produced by sighted developers who have accidently created accessib
Re: [Audyssey] iDevice game thoughts - Re: Why I build the games asI do
I totally agree Michael that you can have complex games on the Iphone, however replayable rpgs don't have to be complex, just by using shuffle card mechanics and basic dice rolls, you can make sure the player doesn't always know what is around the corner, or has to alter their stratogy according to the situation. Look at old dos games like fallthru, eamon, or even some of the early console rpgs. Yes, a game like Kodp, or something equally complex is fantastic, but not all rpgs need to be like that, they just need to use a little variation in encounters and give the player choices about how she/he acts and responds to situations. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] why i build the games the way I do
In response to Marty's post, I know that this is exactly the sort of situation we have with Valiant Galaxy Associates. Our company consists of two people. We began with a large project that took 3 years to get to commercial release and which is due to have an update relatively soon in our schedule. Our next two games were much simpler and rolled out quickly, but only because we could reuse and centralize a lot of the code. We're still in the process of making a centralized platform so we can roll out more of the smaller games as well as work on more ambitious games. Our hope is to eventually have more games in play, let the smaller ones carry the load while we develop long term bigger games. I disagree with you about the RPG as being simple to convert Dark: You can convert the mechanics relatively easily, but then you have to have the mechanics integrate with a group of player actions and possible results. Essentially you write an Choose Your Own Adventure novel on top of the mechanics, get it all to integrate, and then have to still work out why it's not working over 60,000-250,000 words of text and god only knows how much mechanical issues. This doesn't take into account sound scape or voice acting. It's not undoable, and I think we should see more of those types of games myself, but the question is how much complexity can you build from a small production standpoint and still stay sane, productive, and on top of customer service. It's not like you release a game and it's a never go back to proposition. Further, if you want to keep the costs reasonable, you have to make choices. You can't release a professionally produced sound scape, voice acting, music background, story, proofreading, and fully tested and stable code and charge only 10 dollars for it. A lot of the sorts of games that people cite when they mention this genre are games that originally retaled for well over $35 or 40 U.S. or, have monthly subscription charges that come to the same thing. While Marty's assessment that most blind people don't like RPG's might be skewed, he is right that most blind people will not pay for the kind of quality that most would like to demand. Not in my experience in any case. That said, I know all the developers on list attempt to put out as professional and interesting a game as they can. Remember too, that by moving his company to an IOS focus, Marty is not breaking new ground in terms of style of game perhaps, but by moving into the mobile app market he has broken ground for blind people and audio games in terms of providing well received simple games that are inexpensive. That is a huge step from the any audio game is either cheap and developed as a labor of love by one programmer or $40 and developed to be profitable, or at least, hopefully profitable. As usual, my two cents. I'll expect change from that please :) Take care, Jeremy -- In the fight between you and the world--back the world! Frank Zapa --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] iDevice game thoughts - Re: Why I build the games as I do
To me if I ever playing RPG game I really would like to play something a little less start than a lot of the RPG games that you see out there today Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 13, 2016, at 1:04 PM, dark wrote: > > Hi Charlse. > > I really don't see what is wrong with complex rpg games on the iPhone? look > at king of dragon pass. True, casual games to whip a device out of your > pocket and play are good, and there are plenty of good examples of such, > however just because a device can! be a portable games playing device doesn't > mean you can't use it at home, several days I've spent on Kodp, adventure to > fate and some of the choiceofgames interactive stories definitely show that. > > All the best, > > Dark. > - Original Message - From: "Charles Rivard" > To: "Gamers Discussion list" > Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2016 5:40 PM > Subject: [Audyssey] iDevice game thoughts - Re: Why I build the games as I do > > >> For me, lengthy and complex role playing games are not for the iPhone. The >> games that I would prefer are usually games that I must react to action or >> use dice to score, or something along that nature. A game such as chess or >> checkers will work well, too, although I have to have a separate board for >> scoping out my next move. I find it very difficult to explore a board using >> speech only. I very much prefer to look at the whole board without having >> to memorize where the pieces are. Arcade games work well on an iDevice, as >> well as a game in which you drive a vehicle on tracks. >> >> I have seen books of instructions for Dungeons and Dragons and other such >> games, and they! are! huge!! There is no way that I'm going to remember all >> of those rules, and games for iDevices work best if they don't require >> months to play. I can play Blindfold Pinball or Blindfold Bowling for >> either a few minutes or a few hours, and ther is an end to each game. In an >> RPG, it takes forever, if there is even a victor. I think it is a personal >> opinion, but I just don't think that an RPG is best suited for iDevice >> gaming. Sports games or arcade games, and dice competition games such as >> Dice World, or even sound oriented adventure games are more suited for them. >> >> >> >> >> If you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished!! >> -Original Message- From: dark >> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2016 9:34 AM >> To: Gamers Discussion list >> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Why I build the games as I do >> >> @Marty, Blind people don't like rpgs? not true. >> >> Go and check audiogames.net and observe the amount of people who reply to >> rpg related topics, or indeed post a topic and ask. I suspect the >> information you got from that statement was from a local focus group, ie, >> society or association for the blind. Unfortunately, such places tend to >> have a generally older population who are primarily interested in >> traditional type games, however for younger gamers (and indeed those more >> likely to own Ios devices), something a little more modern and complex would >> appeal more, indeed part of the problem with audiogames development is that >> there is a large amount of traditional games available and not so much that >> is none traditional, ie, I can think of about 8 versions of blackjack over >> the years, but not one single version of a modern fantasy board game like >> Talisman, much less a ccg, collectable card game. >> >> >> I'll also add that rpgs don't need to be as complex as the games produced by >> companies like namco and squaresoft. dungeons and dragons do very well with >> basic mechanics, indeed most of what an rpg does mechanically can be >> represented by dice rolls and risk assessments, the one difference is that >> you have story and atmosphere added to that, as well as player progression >> over time. >> >> You might begin therefore by adapting some of the multiplayer fantasy themed >> card and board games for Ios, games like heroes of the multiverse or >> talisman, or creating your own along similar lines if copywrite is an issue. >> These would be mechanically similar to games like roadtrip, hearts or dice >> poker, just with more text involved, eg, a player would encounter a monster >> with a description of it's stats and be required to roll dice for combat, or >> a player would encounter a magical object card and decide whether to take it >> with them or not. >> >> While I do enjoy the games in the collection thus far, I am a little sorry >> none are games intended for longer or more complex play. There's nothing >> wrong with a game of hearts, blackjack etc or a quick arcade game, however >> unfortunately there has already been a lot of that sort of thing produced, >> indeed I do wonder if some people are taking the attitude "well there are >> several versions of hearts for pc, why should I pay to have one on my >> Iphone?" >> >> this isn't meant as an attack, as I said I enjoy the games f
Re: [Audyssey] why i build the games the way I do
Torchlight would like a word with you, vis-a-vis complex games released for cheap. On 4/13/16, Jeremy Brown wrote: > In response to Marty's post, I know that this is exactly the sort of > situation we have with Valiant Galaxy Associates. Our company > consists of two people. We began with a large project that took 3 > years to get to commercial release and which is due to have an update > relatively soon in our schedule. Our next two games were much simpler > and rolled out quickly, but only because we could reuse and centralize > a lot of the code. We're still in the process of making a centralized > platform so we can roll out more of the smaller games as well as work > on more ambitious games. > > Our hope is to eventually have more games in play, let the smaller > ones carry the load while we develop long term bigger games. > > I disagree with you about the RPG as being simple to convert Dark: > > You can convert the mechanics relatively easily, but then you have to > have the mechanics integrate with a group of player actions and > possible results. Essentially you write an Choose Your Own Adventure > novel on top of the mechanics, get it all to integrate, and then have > to still work out why it's not working over 60,000-250,000 words of > text and god only knows how much mechanical issues. This doesn't take > into account sound scape or voice acting. > > It's not undoable, and I think we should see more of those types of > games myself, but the question is how much complexity can you build > from a small production standpoint and still stay sane, productive, > and on top of customer service. It's not like you release a game and > it's a never go back to proposition. Further, if you want to keep the > costs reasonable, you have to make choices. You can't release a > professionally produced sound scape, voice acting, music background, > story, proofreading, and fully tested and stable code and charge only > 10 dollars for it. A lot of the sorts of games that people cite when > they mention this genre are games that originally retaled for well > over $35 or 40 U.S. or, have monthly subscription charges that come to > the same thing. While Marty's assessment that most blind people don't > like RPG's might be skewed, he is right that most blind people will > not pay for the kind of quality that most would like to demand. Not > in my experience in any case. That said, I know all the developers on > list attempt to put out as professional and interesting a game as they > can. Remember too, that by moving his company to an IOS focus, Marty > is not breaking new ground in terms of style of game perhaps, but by > moving into the mobile app market he has broken ground for blind > people and audio games in terms of providing well received simple > games that are inexpensive. That is a huge step from the any audio > game is either cheap and developed as a labor of love by one > programmer or $40 and developed to be profitable, or at least, > hopefully profitable. > > As usual, my two cents. I'll expect change from that please :) > > Take care, > > Jeremy > > > > > -- > In the fight between you and the world--back the world! Frank Zapa > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > -- Justin M. Jones, M.A. atreides...@gmail.com (254) 624-9155 701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] why i build the games the way I do
Hi, I have 1 thing to say about replayable games, Swamp. That's a 1 man band doing all that, look at how good a game that is? Now have something like that on the iPhone and that would be awesome. -Original Message- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Jeremy Brown Sent: 13 April 2016 18:36 To: gamers Subject: Re: [Audyssey] why i build the games the way I do In response to Marty's post, I know that this is exactly the sort of situation we have with Valiant Galaxy Associates. Our company consists of two people. We began with a large project that took 3 years to get to commercial release and which is due to have an update relatively soon in our schedule. Our next two games were much simpler and rolled out quickly, but only because we could reuse and centralize a lot of the code. We're still in the process of making a centralized platform so we can roll out more of the smaller games as well as work on more ambitious games. Our hope is to eventually have more games in play, let the smaller ones carry the load while we develop long term bigger games. I disagree with you about the RPG as being simple to convert Dark: You can convert the mechanics relatively easily, but then you have to have the mechanics integrate with a group of player actions and possible results. Essentially you write an Choose Your Own Adventure novel on top of the mechanics, get it all to integrate, and then have to still work out why it's not working over 60,000-250,000 words of text and god only knows how much mechanical issues. This doesn't take into account sound scape or voice acting. It's not undoable, and I think we should see more of those types of games myself, but the question is how much complexity can you build from a small production standpoint and still stay sane, productive, and on top of customer service. It's not like you release a game and it's a never go back to proposition. Further, if you want to keep the costs reasonable, you have to make choices. You can't release a professionally produced sound scape, voice acting, music background, story, proofreading, and fully tested and stable code and charge only 10 dollars for it. A lot of the sorts of games that people cite when they mention this genre are games that originally retaled for well over $35 or 40 U.S. or, have monthly subscription charges that come to the same thing. While Marty's assessment that most blind people don't like RPG's might be skewed, he is right that most blind people will not pay for the kind of quality that most would like to demand. Not in my experience in any case. That said, I know all the developers on list attempt to put out as professional and interesting a game as they can. Remember too, that by moving his company to an IOS focus, Marty is not breaking new ground in terms of style of game perhaps, but by moving into the mobile app market he has broken ground for blind people and audio games in terms of providing well received simple games that are inexpensive. That is a huge step from the any audio game is either cheap and developed as a labor of love by one programmer or $40 and developed to be profitable, or at least, hopefully profitable. As usual, my two cents. I'll expect change from that please :) Take care, Jeremy -- In the fight between you and the world--back the world! Frank Zapa --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
