Re: [Audyssey] a few thoughts about what audio game maker couldcause
Shaun, have you thought about getting into coding via modding AQ? I say this as there are a lot of tutorials that will help you to learn QC, which in my opinion, can be a good way to get introduced to some object oriented concepts. You can also see your results pretty much immediately in a 3D world. It's not as if you're starting off from scratch, but you also get the freedom to work with a language, with a simple, easy compiler.What do you think?... Have a great weekend!... Smiles, Cara At 09:14 AM 1/21/2007 +1300, you wrote: Hi. When I started programming i had big ideas. maybe to big. I studdied and passed papers that would skill me in programming terms. This all lead to last year when I got visual studio, dotnet 1.1, and 2.0, sapi and directx sdks. I also got manuals. And there is where it has stopped. I intended to get into something, but I am a lazy guy at heart. I doodled around and eventually realised that I had everything but wasn't going anywhere with it. In fact I was not going anywhere and in fact was thinking of what I would do without thinking about all the work this would entail. This year I have decided to be realistic. Will I be bothered programming like the serious devs out there. Probably not, I doubt I will ever write stuff, maybe not. This audio game maker thing is not new in the sence that game generators have existed outside and indeed within games that sighted use. So its not new. myself I have trouble remembering code bits. My goal is to stick with game generators like audio game maker and maybe adrift. When and if I decide to be ready for something then hmm I will decide when that will be. This generator will mean people and more people can write games. its probably not going to be as good as writing your own stuff in c but who knows. Sounds good. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.3/642 - Release Date: 1/20/2007 ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] a few thoughts about what audio game maker couldcause
I havn't thought about aq coding really. At 09:27 p.m. 21/01/2007, you wrote: Shaun, have you thought about getting into coding via modding AQ? I say this as there are a lot of tutorials that will help you to learn QC, which in my opinion, can be a good way to get introduced to some object oriented concepts. You can also see your results pretty much immediately in a 3D world. It's not as if you're starting off from scratch, but you also get the freedom to work with a language, with a simple, easy compiler.What do you think?... Have a great weekend!... Smiles, Cara At 09:14 AM 1/21/2007 +1300, you wrote: Hi. When I started programming i had big ideas. maybe to big. I studdied and passed papers that would skill me in programming terms. This all lead to last year when I got visual studio, dotnet 1.1, and 2.0, sapi and directx sdks. I also got manuals. And there is where it has stopped. I intended to get into something, but I am a lazy guy at heart. I doodled around and eventually realised that I had everything but wasn't going anywhere with it. In fact I was not going anywhere and in fact was thinking of what I would do without thinking about all the work this would entail. This year I have decided to be realistic. Will I be bothered programming like the serious devs out there. Probably not, I doubt I will ever write stuff, maybe not. This audio game maker thing is not new in the sence that game generators have existed outside and indeed within games that sighted use. So its not new. myself I have trouble remembering code bits. My goal is to stick with game generators like audio game maker and maybe adrift. When and if I decide to be ready for something then hmm I will decide when that will be. This generator will mean people and more people can write games. its probably not going to be as good as writing your own stuff in c but who knows. Sounds good. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.3/642 - Release Date: 1/20/2007 ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] a few thoughts about what audio game maker couldcause
That presupposes you could make games of equal quality with this thing. Considering the time pressures Richard and crew are facing, I wouldn't bank on that. There'll almost certainly be a substantial divide in quality. The moment you use an engine of any kind, you lose flexibility by default. Tom has the freedom and skill to actually custom-make his own engine. It's like working with Lego blocks. You're limited to what their shapes permit. One area that my initial glance at the manual raised was that it seems like the engine is geared for sort of action rpgs. I could easily be wrong about this but I can't imagine somebody making an Asteroids clone to rival what Nolan and Tom are working on. It'll help tremendously when I can try some of their sample games and get a better feel for things. At this stage though, I don't think our developers need worry at all. Michael Feir Creator and former Editor of Audyssey Magazine 1996-2004 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 11:34 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a few thoughts about what audio game maker couldcause Hi Everett, I think I am safe in saying you are not the only one who has worries about how the audio Game Maker software will effect our market. Instead of 5 or 10 developers we could have a hundred such devs most of them in the amature circle. Not that this is all bad I am afraid this might wind up like the Atari days with a dozen games being the same as the next guys with mods and changes thrown in. There is also a potential with such free software and a desire to make them some, or many users may choose to make or his her favorite games rather than waiting for the companies to develope them. This is good for the end user, but would be bad for the companies currently taking a income off the games they make. If that were to happen the pro dev companies may decide there is no money in it, and leave. Just some doom and gloom concerns I have if this becomes a popular item amoung blind users. Smile. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.0/639 - Release Date: 18/01/2007 6:47 PM ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] a few thoughts about what audio game maker couldcause
Hi Michael, I guess I didn't look it exactly that way, but yeah engines can be limiting if you don't have the source and skills to mold it into what you want to do. A perfect example of this is Sarah. Since it is written by the GMA Engine phil is locked in to a 2D world, and can not stack rooms on top of each other, and so on. Since I have the skills to write and work on my own engines were I the dev on that game I could simply create a 3d array, and draw everything in that array according to true 3D dimensions and scale were I willing to do it. It will be interesting to see what Audio Games Maker can and can not do, but it may not be able to match a fully skilled programmer as for as flexability and really making advanced games. Certainly no Raceway with physics mottling, ff game controllers, and that sort of thing I am hoping to build in to the game. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] a few thoughts about what audio game maker couldcause
I dunno, if you can't find 'em, make 'em. Do you know what George Lucas used for one of those speeders? A shaver moving around in a glass bowl pitch shifted down a few notches! I recently did a captain hook thing with sfx for my job at school, and I spent five mins or so trying to get hook sounds from forks, knives, anything metal that would go shing! - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 12:22 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a few thoughts about what audio game maker couldcause I feel the good outweighs the bad in this situation. When something new is developed there's always the potential for misuse, but if we dwell only on that and not the good uses to which it could be put, we'd never get anywhere. As for sounds, they crop up in multiple audio games all the time. Like it or not, sound effects aren't easy to come by when you're a blind guy with not a whole lot of money, especially good quality ones. As for showcasing the games, you can always zip them and Email them to people. And I think the AGM web site's going to host some. Bryan and his Girl Jenny ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] a few thoughts about what audio game maker couldcause
I understand that this things gonna have limitations, but the point I'm trying to make is that there are gonna be some who are going to try putting out a game as soon as possible just so they can say whee! I did it! and that's not what this whole thing is about. I don't mean to be repetitive, but this really bugs me. I know we don't have a chance against someone who really knows their stuff as far as program because this thing is going to be a beta which screams yikes to me anyway. However, I just hope people push this thing to its limits instead of making a gae where you shoot the dogs and grab the apples for points. ... I suppose it's inevitable, but hmm. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] a few thoughts about what audio game maker couldcause
but you can do lots of things with lego blocks. Josh - Original Message - From: michael feir [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 3:57 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a few thoughts about what audio game maker couldcause That presupposes you could make games of equal quality with this thing. Considering the time pressures Richard and crew are facing, I wouldn't bank on that. There'll almost certainly be a substantial divide in quality. The moment you use an engine of any kind, you lose flexibility by default. Tom has the freedom and skill to actually custom-make his own engine. It's like working with Lego blocks. You're limited to what their shapes permit. One area that my initial glance at the manual raised was that it seems like the engine is geared for sort of action rpgs. I could easily be wrong about this but I can't imagine somebody making an Asteroids clone to rival what Nolan and Tom are working on. It'll help tremendously when I can try some of their sample games and get a better feel for things. At this stage though, I don't think our developers need worry at all. Michael Feir Creator and former Editor of Audyssey Magazine 1996-2004 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 11:34 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a few thoughts about what audio game maker couldcause Hi Everett, I think I am safe in saying you are not the only one who has worries about how the audio Game Maker software will effect our market. Instead of 5 or 10 developers we could have a hundred such devs most of them in the amature circle. Not that this is all bad I am afraid this might wind up like the Atari days with a dozen games being the same as the next guys with mods and changes thrown in. There is also a potential with such free software and a desire to make them some, or many users may choose to make or his her favorite games rather than waiting for the companies to develope them. This is good for the end user, but would be bad for the companies currently taking a income off the games they make. If that were to happen the pro dev companies may decide there is no money in it, and leave. Just some doom and gloom concerns I have if this becomes a popular item amoung blind users. Smile. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.0/639 - Release Date: 18/01/2007 6:47 PM ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] a few thoughts about what audio game maker couldcause
yea, it sounds like audio game maker will have a lot of tools for us to work with. But, I think it's just like using visual basic or c plus plus. You can have all the tools, but if your intent is to throw a game together in a day and say yay, I did it, then your game won't be that good. On the other hand, use audio game maker to its fullest. get 3 or 4000 sound files ambients voices and such, and spend the time and put effort into really using audio game maker and I think we can crank out some really cool games with it. Josh - Original Message - From: Everett Elam [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 10:25 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a few thoughts about what audio game maker couldcause I understand that this things gonna have limitations, but the point I'm trying to make is that there are gonna be some who are going to try putting out a game as soon as possible just so they can say whee! I did it! and that's not what this whole thing is about. I don't mean to be repetitive, but this really bugs me. I know we don't have a chance against someone who really knows their stuff as far as program because this thing is going to be a beta which screams yikes to me anyway. However, I just hope people push this thing to its limits instead of making a gae where you shoot the dogs and grab the apples for points. ... I suppose it's inevitable, but hmm. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] a few thoughts about what audio game maker couldcause
Hi people! I've been following this thread with much interest and I'm glad with many of your posts, both those filled with enthousiasm for our project as well as those questioning parts of it. Unfortunately I haven't got the time to reply all of your posts but I'd like to say a few things: First of all, Audio Game Maker is an experiment. Fact is that there is a bigger demand for audio games than there are audio games in existance. Another fact is that many people would like to have a go at making an audio game themselves but when faced with the challenges of game development, especially the the technical side to game development like programming, only a few brave souls make it. Audio Game Maker is intended as a solution for this problem and focus on the more fun side of game development, such as quickly turning your idea into a game. It is absolutely true that at some point you will have an idea for something in a game and that when you try to execute that idea in Audio Game Maker, you find that it isn't possible. In all of my experience with computers, I haven't encountered a single application where I couldn't think of something that would improve it. It's all the same for Audio Game Maker - there simply isn't an application which allows you to do everything. Not for game development, not for word-processing, not for audio-editing, etc. The only solution to execute your specific idea is to start writing your own game in code. Many people have already posted about this, so I won't press this issue. But I wanted to repeat it, since it makes all the difference in the world. So where does this leave Audio Game Maker - where you are (fact) limited in what you can build? I believe, even with the limitations of the application, that Audio Game Maker can contribute a great deal to the field of audio games. First of all, I think that 'limitation stimulates creativity'. Many ideas for audio games that I read here are based on existing games, with only a change of narrative, but which still incorporate the same game mechanics. Since Audio Game Maker might not feature the functionality that allows you to rebuilt exactly the same game functionality of another game so you are forced to either use a clever work-around or change your idea. And this might lead to an even better, more original idea which might even be more fun. Of course Audio Game Maker should allow you with enough functionality to get somewhere. But I think it does :) Audio Game Maker is also an experiment in the sense that it is the first time that something like this has been tried. So far I haven't heard of a similar project/product. I know about RPG Game Engine and Audio Adventure Engine and so forth (please see http://www.audiogames.net/page.php?pagefile=links under Audio Game Development Tools) but those focused on specific genres of games, so to say. Therefore it is still a big question what an 'audio game maker' should consists of (of which functionality). Time will tell and hopefully we can continue improving Audio Game Maker over the next couple of years. For this we do need your feedback, though!! Audio Game Maker is also an experiment in the sense that we don't know how it will impact the field of audio games. I hope that the community will see through Audio Game Maker's initial flaws and get their teeth in. I hope that many people will start co-operating on making games and sharing games. I can already tell you that Sander and I are already working on online game sharing community-functionality either for www.audiogames.net or to http://www.audiogamemaker.com . Kind of like YouTube, but then for games ;) . I personally don't think Audio Game Maker will put current audio game developers out of business. Instead, there will simply be professional games as well as home-made games, two categories that already exist for many years in this field. What is boils down to is probably this: most folks here are interested in games as a form of entertainment, aimed to fill leisure time with an interactive activity that is fun and exciting. Audio Game Maker provides you with a variety of tools to build interactive activities that are fun and exciting. You have to add the fun and excitement yourself. Maybe not every interactive activity can be achieved - no: you cannot use a webcam, microphone, joystick, wiimote or mouse as an input device in Audio Game Maker, no: you cannot build realtime multiplayer games that work over the internet with Audio Game Maker, no: you cannot create real-time online hiscore tables for a website, no: the sound library will not contain a sound sample of everything that can be recorded, etc. - but you can certainly create a fun game, like yes: you can create a ghost world where you roam free and have to hunt down the 13 ghosts before the bell of the old church tolls ;) Greets, Richard ___ Gamers mailing list ..
Re: [Audyssey] a few thoughts about what audio game maker couldcause
Hi. When I started programming i had big ideas. maybe to big. I studdied and passed papers that would skill me in programming terms. This all lead to last year when I got visual studio, dotnet 1.1, and 2.0, sapi and directx sdks. I also got manuals. And there is where it has stopped. I intended to get into something, but I am a lazy guy at heart. I doodled around and eventually realised that I had everything but wasn't going anywhere with it. In fact I was not going anywhere and in fact was thinking of what I would do without thinking about all the work this would entail. This year I have decided to be realistic. Will I be bothered programming like the serious devs out there. Probably not, I doubt I will ever write stuff, maybe not. This audio game maker thing is not new in the sence that game generators have existed outside and indeed within games that sighted use. So its not new. myself I have trouble remembering code bits. My goal is to stick with game generators like audio game maker and maybe adrift. When and if I decide to be ready for something then hmm I will decide when that will be. This generator will mean people and more people can write games. its probably not going to be as good as writing your own stuff in c but who knows. Sounds good. At 07:42 a.m. 21/01/2007, you wrote: Hi people! I've been following this thread with much interest and I'm glad with many of your posts, both those filled with enthousiasm for our project as well as those questioning parts of it. Unfortunately I haven't got the time to reply all of your posts but I'd like to say a few things: First of all, Audio Game Maker is an experiment. Fact is that there is a bigger demand for audio games than there are audio games in existance. Another fact is that many people would like to have a go at making an audio game themselves but when faced with the challenges of game development, especially the the technical side to game development like programming, only a few brave souls make it. Audio Game Maker is intended as a solution for this problem and focus on the more fun side of game development, such as quickly turning your idea into a game. It is absolutely true that at some point you will have an idea for something in a game and that when you try to execute that idea in Audio Game Maker, you find that it isn't possible. In all of my experience with computers, I haven't encountered a single application where I couldn't think of something that would improve it. It's all the same for Audio Game Maker - there simply isn't an application which allows you to do everything. Not for game development, not for word-processing, not for audio-editing, etc. The only solution to execute your specific idea is to start writing your own game in code. Many people have already posted about this, so I won't press this issue. But I wanted to repeat it, since it makes all the difference in the world. So where does this leave Audio Game Maker - where you are (fact) limited in what you can build? I believe, even with the limitations of the application, that Audio Game Maker can contribute a great deal to the field of audio games. First of all, I think that 'limitation stimulates creativity'. Many ideas for audio games that I read here are based on existing games, with only a change of narrative, but which still incorporate the same game mechanics. Since Audio Game Maker might not feature the functionality that allows you to rebuilt exactly the same game functionality of another game so you are forced to either use a clever work-around or change your idea. And this might lead to an even better, more original idea which might even be more fun. Of course Audio Game Maker should allow you with enough functionality to get somewhere. But I think it does :) Audio Game Maker is also an experiment in the sense that it is the first time that something like this has been tried. So far I haven't heard of a similar project/product. I know about RPG Game Engine and Audio Adventure Engine and so forth (please see http://www.audiogames.net/page.php?pagefile=links under Audio Game Development Tools) but those focused on specific genres of games, so to say. Therefore it is still a big question what an 'audio game maker' should consists of (of which functionality). Time will tell and hopefully we can continue improving Audio Game Maker over the next couple of years. For this we do need your feedback, though!! Audio Game Maker is also an experiment in the sense that we don't know how it will impact the field of audio games. I hope that the community will see through Audio Game Maker's initial flaws and get their teeth in. I hope that many people will start co-operating on making games and sharing games. I can already tell you that Sander and I are already working on online game sharing community-functionality either for www.audiogames.net or to http://www.audiogamemaker.com . Kind of like YouTube, but then for games ;)
Re: [Audyssey] a few thoughts about what audio game maker couldcause
and although this will be limited if an idea is good enough you may be able to get it in the next release. At 09:18 a.m. 21/01/2007, you wrote: That's just what I've beenn trying to tell people. It'll be limited, sure, but that doesn't mean it won't still be cool! Even though she isn't blind i might get my girlfriend in on some of my projects. Shouldn't be too hard since she already sounds fascinated by it. Bryan and his Girl Jenny - Original Message - From: AudioGames.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 11:42 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a few thoughts about what audio game maker couldcause Hi people! I've been following this thread with much interest and I'm glad with many of your posts, both those filled with enthousiasm for our project as well as those questioning parts of it. Unfortunately I haven't got the time to reply all of your posts but I'd like to say a few things: First of all, Audio Game Maker is an experiment. Fact is that there is a bigger demand for audio games than there are audio games in existance. Another fact is that many people would like to have a go at making an audio game themselves but when faced with the challenges of game development, especially the the technical side to game development like programming, only a few brave souls make it. Audio Game Maker is intended as a solution for this problem and focus on the more fun side of game development, such as quickly turning your idea into a game. It is absolutely true that at some point you will have an idea for something in a game and that when you try to execute that idea in Audio Game Maker, you find that it isn't possible. In all of my experience with computers, I haven't encountered a single application where I couldn't think of something that would improve it. It's all the same for Audio Game Maker - there simply isn't an application which allows you to do everything. Not for game development, not for word-processing, not for audio-editing, etc. The only solution to execute your specific idea is to start writing your own game in code. Many people have already posted about this, so I won't press this issue. But I wanted to repeat it, since it makes all the difference in the world. So where does this leave Audio Game Maker - where you are (fact) limited in what you can build? I believe, even with the limitations of the application, that Audio Game Maker can contribute a great deal to the field of audio games. First of all, I think that 'limitation stimulates creativity'. Many ideas for audio games that I read here are based on existing games, with only a change of narrative, but which still incorporate the same game mechanics. Since Audio Game Maker might not feature the functionality that allows you to rebuilt exactly the same game functionality of another game so you are forced to either use a clever work-around or change your idea. And this might lead to an even better, more original idea which might even be more fun. Of course Audio Game Maker should allow you with enough functionality to get somewhere. But I think it does :) Audio Game Maker is also an experiment in the sense that it is the first time that something like this has been tried. So far I haven't heard of a similar project/product. I know about RPG Game Engine and Audio Adventure Engine and so forth (please see http://www.audiogames.net/page.php?pagefile=links under Audio Game Development Tools) but those focused on specific genres of games, so to say. Therefore it is still a big question what an 'audio game maker' should consists of (of which functionality). Time will tell and hopefully we can continue improving Audio Game Maker over the next couple of years. For this we do need your feedback, though!! Audio Game Maker is also an experiment in the sense that we don't know how it will impact the field of audio games. I hope that the community will see through Audio Game Maker's initial flaws and get their teeth in. I hope that many people will start co-operating on making games and sharing games. I can already tell you that Sander and I are already working on online game sharing community-functionality either for www.audiogames.net or to http://www.audiogamemaker.com . Kind of like YouTube, but then for games ;) . I personally don't think Audio Game Maker will put current audio game developers out of business. Instead, there will simply be professional games as well as home-made games, two categories that already exist for many years in this field. What is boils down to is probably this: most folks here are interested in games as a form of entertainment, aimed to fill leisure time with an interactive activity that is fun and exciting. Audio Game Maker provides you with a variety of tools to build interactive activities that are fun and exciting. You have to add the fun and excitement
Re: [Audyssey] a few thoughts about what audio game maker couldcause
I would prefer to think of it as that Audio Game Maker has certain limitations instead of Audio Game Maker being limited - which are different things. I guess too much emphasis is now put on what you might not be able to do with Audio Game Maker instead of what you might be able to do with Audio Game Maker. Ah, but yes, all the tension and anxiety, no?... ;) - Original Message - From: shaun everiss [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 9:23 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a few thoughts about what audio game maker couldcause and although this will be limited if an idea is good enough you may be able to get it in the next release. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] a few thoughts about what audio game maker couldcause
Both. Bryan and his Girl Jenny - Original Message - From: damien c. sadler - head of x-sight interactive [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 2:18 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a few thoughts about what audio game maker couldcause do you have to use sounds from the audiogamemaker library or do you have the options of using your own sounds? thanks. regards, damien - Original Message - From: AudioGames.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 6:42 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a few thoughts about what audio game maker couldcause Hi people! I've been following this thread with much interest and I'm glad with many of your posts, both those filled with enthousiasm for our project as well as those questioning parts of it. Unfortunately I haven't got the time to reply all of your posts but I'd like to say a few things: First of all, Audio Game Maker is an experiment. Fact is that there is a bigger demand for audio games than there are audio games in existance. Another fact is that many people would like to have a go at making an audio game themselves but when faced with the challenges of game development, especially the the technical side to game development like programming, only a few brave souls make it. Audio Game Maker is intended as a solution for this problem and focus on the more fun side of game development, such as quickly turning your idea into a game. It is absolutely true that at some point you will have an idea for something in a game and that when you try to execute that idea in Audio Game Maker, you find that it isn't possible. In all of my experience with computers, I haven't encountered a single application where I couldn't think of something that would improve it. It's all the same for Audio Game Maker - there simply isn't an application which allows you to do everything. Not for game development, not for word-processing, not for audio-editing, etc. The only solution to execute your specific idea is to start writing your own game in code. Many people have already posted about this, so I won't press this issue. But I wanted to repeat it, since it makes all the difference in the world. So where does this leave Audio Game Maker - where you are (fact) limited in what you can build? I believe, even with the limitations of the application, that Audio Game Maker can contribute a great deal to the field of audio games. First of all, I think that 'limitation stimulates creativity'. Many ideas for audio games that I read here are based on existing games, with only a change of narrative, but which still incorporate the same game mechanics. Since Audio Game Maker might not feature the functionality that allows you to rebuilt exactly the same game functionality of another game so you are forced to either use a clever work-around or change your idea. And this might lead to an even better, more original idea which might even be more fun. Of course Audio Game Maker should allow you with enough functionality to get somewhere. But I think it does :) Audio Game Maker is also an experiment in the sense that it is the first time that something like this has been tried. So far I haven't heard of a similar project/product. I know about RPG Game Engine and Audio Adventure Engine and so forth (please see http://www.audiogames.net/page.php?pagefile=links under Audio Game Development Tools) but those focused on specific genres of games, so to say. Therefore it is still a big question what an 'audio game maker' should consists of (of which functionality). Time will tell and hopefully we can continue improving Audio Game Maker over the next couple of years. For this we do need your feedback, though!! Audio Game Maker is also an experiment in the sense that we don't know how it will impact the field of audio games. I hope that the community will see through Audio Game Maker's initial flaws and get their teeth in. I hope that many people will start co-operating on making games and sharing games. I can already tell you that Sander and I are already working on online game sharing community-functionality either for www.audiogames.net or to http://www.audiogamemaker.com . Kind of like YouTube, but then for games ;) . I personally don't think Audio Game Maker will put current audio game developers out of business. Instead, there will simply be professional games as well as home-made games, two categories that already exist for many years in this field. What is boils down to is probably this: most folks here are interested in games as a form of entertainment, aimed to fill leisure time with an interactive activity that is fun and exciting. Audio Game Maker provides you with a variety of tools to build interactive activities that are fun and exciting. You have to add the fun
Re: [Audyssey] a few thoughts about what audio game maker couldcause
Hi, If there could be a paypal or credit card link on one of the sites I'd be willing to donate to the project. And being blind all my life and not having played any of the sighted peoples games I want to do remakes of for the blind, I'm sure my version of a sighted person's game will be different and maybe even original. Josh - Original Message - From: AudioGames.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 1:42 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a few thoughts about what audio game maker couldcause Hi people! I've been following this thread with much interest and I'm glad with many of your posts, both those filled with enthousiasm for our project as well as those questioning parts of it. Unfortunately I haven't got the time to reply all of your posts but I'd like to say a few things: First of all, Audio Game Maker is an experiment. Fact is that there is a bigger demand for audio games than there are audio games in existance. Another fact is that many people would like to have a go at making an audio game themselves but when faced with the challenges of game development, especially the the technical side to game development like programming, only a few brave souls make it. Audio Game Maker is intended as a solution for this problem and focus on the more fun side of game development, such as quickly turning your idea into a game. It is absolutely true that at some point you will have an idea for something in a game and that when you try to execute that idea in Audio Game Maker, you find that it isn't possible. In all of my experience with computers, I haven't encountered a single application where I couldn't think of something that would improve it. It's all the same for Audio Game Maker - there simply isn't an application which allows you to do everything. Not for game development, not for word-processing, not for audio-editing, etc. The only solution to execute your specific idea is to start writing your own game in code. Many people have already posted about this, so I won't press this issue. But I wanted to repeat it, since it makes all the difference in the world. So where does this leave Audio Game Maker - where you are (fact) limited in what you can build? I believe, even with the limitations of the application, that Audio Game Maker can contribute a great deal to the field of audio games. First of all, I think that 'limitation stimulates creativity'. Many ideas for audio games that I read here are based on existing games, with only a change of narrative, but which still incorporate the same game mechanics. Since Audio Game Maker might not feature the functionality that allows you to rebuilt exactly the same game functionality of another game so you are forced to either use a clever work-around or change your idea. And this might lead to an even better, more original idea which might even be more fun. Of course Audio Game Maker should allow you with enough functionality to get somewhere. But I think it does :) Audio Game Maker is also an experiment in the sense that it is the first time that something like this has been tried. So far I haven't heard of a similar project/product. I know about RPG Game Engine and Audio Adventure Engine and so forth (please see http://www.audiogames.net/page.php?pagefile=links under Audio Game Development Tools) but those focused on specific genres of games, so to say. Therefore it is still a big question what an 'audio game maker' should consists of (of which functionality). Time will tell and hopefully we can continue improving Audio Game Maker over the next couple of years. For this we do need your feedback, though!! Audio Game Maker is also an experiment in the sense that we don't know how it will impact the field of audio games. I hope that the community will see through Audio Game Maker's initial flaws and get their teeth in. I hope that many people will start co-operating on making games and sharing games. I can already tell you that Sander and I are already working on online game sharing community-functionality either for www.audiogames.net or to http://www.audiogamemaker.com . Kind of like YouTube, but then for games ;) . I personally don't think Audio Game Maker will put current audio game developers out of business. Instead, there will simply be professional games as well as home-made games, two categories that already exist for many years in this field. What is boils down to is probably this: most folks here are interested in games as a form of entertainment, aimed to fill leisure time with an interactive activity that is fun and exciting. Audio Game Maker provides you with a variety of tools to build interactive activities that are fun and exciting. You have to add the fun and excitement yourself. Maybe not every interactive activity can be achieved - no: you cannot use a webcam
Re: [Audyssey] a few thoughts about what audio game maker couldcause
I agree. they should definitely have a paypal button on their site. - For an amazing video gaming site containing original soundtracks, game art, etc, go here. http://gh.ffshrine.org?r=16426 - Original Message - From: Josh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 5:54 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a few thoughts about what audio game maker couldcause Hi, If there could be a paypal or credit card link on one of the sites I'd be willing to donate to the project. And being blind all my life and not having played any of the sighted peoples games I want to do remakes of for the blind, I'm sure my version of a sighted person's game will be different and maybe even original. Josh - Original Message - From: AudioGames.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 1:42 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a few thoughts about what audio game maker couldcause Hi people! I've been following this thread with much interest and I'm glad with many of your posts, both those filled with enthousiasm for our project as well as those questioning parts of it. Unfortunately I haven't got the time to reply all of your posts but I'd like to say a few things: First of all, Audio Game Maker is an experiment. Fact is that there is a bigger demand for audio games than there are audio games in existance. Another fact is that many people would like to have a go at making an audio game themselves but when faced with the challenges of game development, especially the the technical side to game development like programming, only a few brave souls make it. Audio Game Maker is intended as a solution for this problem and focus on the more fun side of game development, such as quickly turning your idea into a game. It is absolutely true that at some point you will have an idea for something in a game and that when you try to execute that idea in Audio Game Maker, you find that it isn't possible. In all of my experience with computers, I haven't encountered a single application where I couldn't think of something that would improve it. It's all the same for Audio Game Maker - there simply isn't an application which allows you to do everything. Not for game development, not for word-processing, not for audio-editing, etc. The only solution to execute your specific idea is to start writing your own game in code. Many people have already posted about this, so I won't press this issue. But I wanted to repeat it, since it makes all the difference in the world. So where does this leave Audio Game Maker - where you are (fact) limited in what you can build? I believe, even with the limitations of the application, that Audio Game Maker can contribute a great deal to the field of audio games. First of all, I think that 'limitation stimulates creativity'. Many ideas for audio games that I read here are based on existing games, with only a change of narrative, but which still incorporate the same game mechanics. Since Audio Game Maker might not feature the functionality that allows you to rebuilt exactly the same game functionality of another game so you are forced to either use a clever work-around or change your idea. And this might lead to an even better, more original idea which might even be more fun. Of course Audio Game Maker should allow you with enough functionality to get somewhere. But I think it does :) Audio Game Maker is also an experiment in the sense that it is the first time that something like this has been tried. So far I haven't heard of a similar project/product. I know about RPG Game Engine and Audio Adventure Engine and so forth (please see http://www.audiogames.net/page.php?pagefile=links under Audio Game Development Tools) but those focused on specific genres of games, so to say. Therefore it is still a big question what an 'audio game maker' should consists of (of which functionality). Time will tell and hopefully we can continue improving Audio Game Maker over the next couple of years. For this we do need your feedback, though!! Audio Game Maker is also an experiment in the sense that we don't know how it will impact the field of audio games. I hope that the community will see through Audio Game Maker's initial flaws and get their teeth in. I hope that many people will start co-operating on making games and sharing games. I can already tell you that Sander and I are already working on online game sharing community-functionality either for www.audiogames.net or to http://www.audiogamemaker.com . Kind of like YouTube, but then for games ;) . I personally don't think Audio Game Maker will put current audio game developers out of business. Instead, there will simply be professional games as well as home-made games, two categories that already exist for many years in this field. What
Re: [Audyssey] a few thoughts about what audio game maker couldcause
I love the concept of this game engine because it seems like an easy or relatively easy way to make games. Tim Kilgore ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] a few thoughts about what audio game maker couldcause
yeah it sounds good to me too. I didn't get rid of all my programming stuff. I just uninstalled it. The installers are sitting around on one of my other hard drives. Josh - Original Message - From: shaun everiss [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 3:14 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a few thoughts about what audio game maker couldcause Hi. When I started programming i had big ideas. maybe to big. I studdied and passed papers that would skill me in programming terms. This all lead to last year when I got visual studio, dotnet 1.1, and 2.0, sapi and directx sdks. I also got manuals. And there is where it has stopped. I intended to get into something, but I am a lazy guy at heart. I doodled around and eventually realised that I had everything but wasn't going anywhere with it. In fact I was not going anywhere and in fact was thinking of what I would do without thinking about all the work this would entail. This year I have decided to be realistic. Will I be bothered programming like the serious devs out there. Probably not, I doubt I will ever write stuff, maybe not. This audio game maker thing is not new in the sence that game generators have existed outside and indeed within games that sighted use. So its not new. myself I have trouble remembering code bits. My goal is to stick with game generators like audio game maker and maybe adrift. When and if I decide to be ready for something then hmm I will decide when that will be. This generator will mean people and more people can write games. its probably not going to be as good as writing your own stuff in c but who knows. Sounds good. At 07:42 a.m. 21/01/2007, you wrote: Hi people! I've been following this thread with much interest and I'm glad with many of your posts, both those filled with enthousiasm for our project as well as those questioning parts of it. Unfortunately I haven't got the time to reply all of your posts but I'd like to say a few things: First of all, Audio Game Maker is an experiment. Fact is that there is a bigger demand for audio games than there are audio games in existance. Another fact is that many people would like to have a go at making an audio game themselves but when faced with the challenges of game development, especially the the technical side to game development like programming, only a few brave souls make it. Audio Game Maker is intended as a solution for this problem and focus on the more fun side of game development, such as quickly turning your idea into a game. It is absolutely true that at some point you will have an idea for something in a game and that when you try to execute that idea in Audio Game Maker, you find that it isn't possible. In all of my experience with computers, I haven't encountered a single application where I couldn't think of something that would improve it. It's all the same for Audio Game Maker - there simply isn't an application which allows you to do everything. Not for game development, not for word-processing, not for audio-editing, etc. The only solution to execute your specific idea is to start writing your own game in code. Many people have already posted about this, so I won't press this issue. But I wanted to repeat it, since it makes all the difference in the world. So where does this leave Audio Game Maker - where you are (fact) limited in what you can build? I believe, even with the limitations of the application, that Audio Game Maker can contribute a great deal to the field of audio games. First of all, I think that 'limitation stimulates creativity'. Many ideas for audio games that I read here are based on existing games, with only a change of narrative, but which still incorporate the same game mechanics. Since Audio Game Maker might not feature the functionality that allows you to rebuilt exactly the same game functionality of another game so you are forced to either use a clever work-around or change your idea. And this might lead to an even better, more original idea which might even be more fun. Of course Audio Game Maker should allow you with enough functionality to get somewhere. But I think it does :) Audio Game Maker is also an experiment in the sense that it is the first time that something like this has been tried. So far I haven't heard of a similar project/product. I know about RPG Game Engine and Audio Adventure Engine and so forth (please see http://www.audiogames.net/page.php?pagefile=links under Audio Game Development Tools) but those focused on specific genres of games, so to say. Therefore it is still a big question what an 'audio game maker' should consists of (of which functionality). Time will tell and hopefully we can continue improving Audio Game Maker over the next couple of years. For this we do need your feedback, though!! Audio Game Maker is also an experiment in the sense that we don't know how it will impact the field of audio
Re: [Audyssey] a few thoughts about what audio game maker couldcause
Well I hope we can use our own sounds although having the agm library will be cool to. I have 20gb of sound ideas stuff. At 10:18 a.m. 21/01/2007, you wrote: do you have to use sounds from the audiogamemaker library or do you have the options of using your own sounds? thanks. regards, damien - Original Message - From: AudioGames.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 6:42 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a few thoughts about what audio game maker couldcause Hi people! I've been following this thread with much interest and I'm glad with many of your posts, both those filled with enthousiasm for our project as well as those questioning parts of it. Unfortunately I haven't got the time to reply all of your posts but I'd like to say a few things: First of all, Audio Game Maker is an experiment. Fact is that there is a bigger demand for audio games than there are audio games in existance. Another fact is that many people would like to have a go at making an audio game themselves but when faced with the challenges of game development, especially the the technical side to game development like programming, only a few brave souls make it. Audio Game Maker is intended as a solution for this problem and focus on the more fun side of game development, such as quickly turning your idea into a game. It is absolutely true that at some point you will have an idea for something in a game and that when you try to execute that idea in Audio Game Maker, you find that it isn't possible. In all of my experience with computers, I haven't encountered a single application where I couldn't think of something that would improve it. It's all the same for Audio Game Maker - there simply isn't an application which allows you to do everything. Not for game development, not for word-processing, not for audio-editing, etc. The only solution to execute your specific idea is to start writing your own game in code. Many people have already posted about this, so I won't press this issue. But I wanted to repeat it, since it makes all the difference in the world. So where does this leave Audio Game Maker - where you are (fact) limited in what you can build? I believe, even with the limitations of the application, that Audio Game Maker can contribute a great deal to the field of audio games. First of all, I think that 'limitation stimulates creativity'. Many ideas for audio games that I read here are based on existing games, with only a change of narrative, but which still incorporate the same game mechanics. Since Audio Game Maker might not feature the functionality that allows you to rebuilt exactly the same game functionality of another game so you are forced to either use a clever work-around or change your idea. And this might lead to an even better, more original idea which might even be more fun. Of course Audio Game Maker should allow you with enough functionality to get somewhere. But I think it does :) Audio Game Maker is also an experiment in the sense that it is the first time that something like this has been tried. So far I haven't heard of a similar project/product. I know about RPG Game Engine and Audio Adventure Engine and so forth (please see http://www.audiogames.net/page.php?pagefile=links under Audio Game Development Tools) but those focused on specific genres of games, so to say. Therefore it is still a big question what an 'audio game maker' should consists of (of which functionality). Time will tell and hopefully we can continue improving Audio Game Maker over the next couple of years. For this we do need your feedback, though!! Audio Game Maker is also an experiment in the sense that we don't know how it will impact the field of audio games. I hope that the community will see through Audio Game Maker's initial flaws and get their teeth in. I hope that many people will start co-operating on making games and sharing games. I can already tell you that Sander and I are already working on online game sharing community-functionality either for www.audiogames.net or to http://www.audiogamemaker.com . Kind of like YouTube, but then for games ;) . I personally don't think Audio Game Maker will put current audio game developers out of business. Instead, there will simply be professional games as well as home-made games, two categories that already exist for many years in this field. What is boils down to is probably this: most folks here are interested in games as a form of entertainment, aimed to fill leisure time with an interactive activity that is fun and exciting. Audio Game Maker provides you with a variety of tools to build interactive activities that are fun and exciting. You have to add the fun and excitement yourself. Maybe not every interactive activity can be achieved - no: you cannot use a webcam, microphone, joystick, wiimote or mouse
Re: [Audyssey] a few thoughts about what audio game maker couldcause
Hi Thank you very much for your idea for financial support. Our foundation never does that sort of thing (I don't know if we're allowed legally, since this is a funded project already ;) but I'll discuss it with my boss. Even so, a followup project requires quite a bit of money. I expect that our regular (more professional) way of getting money (funding) is more likely to get the amount we need. At the end of the day that's what funding is for: to support projects like ours. Instead of a Paypal button and your money, we would prefer something else: your support. This effort called Audio Game Maker is for you. And only with you it can become a success. So when it's released we hope you and the whole of the community support it. Even if there are a few bugs in the beginning, even if there's this one missing building block, etc. You can help us by posting your feedback on our forum or on this list and tell us your complaints, ideas and experiences concerning Audio Game Maker. That is worth more to us than money. Such feedback is proof that there is indeed a community out there that craves a tool such as Audio Game Maker and that desperately wants more games. Such feedback we can then use to ask for money for a follow-up project. So when AGM is released, let's hear it! Greets, Richard - Original Message - From: Josh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 11:54 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a few thoughts about what audio game maker couldcause Hi, If there could be a paypal or credit card link on one of the sites I'd be willing to donate to the project. And being blind all my life and not having played any of the sighted peoples games I want to do remakes of for the blind, I'm sure my version of a sighted person's game will be different and maybe even original. Josh - Original Message - From: AudioGames.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 1:42 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a few thoughts about what audio game maker couldcause Hi people! I've been following this thread with much interest and I'm glad with many of your posts, both those filled with enthousiasm for our project as well as those questioning parts of it. Unfortunately I haven't got the time to reply all of your posts but I'd like to say a few things: First of all, Audio Game Maker is an experiment. Fact is that there is a bigger demand for audio games than there are audio games in existance. Another fact is that many people would like to have a go at making an audio game themselves but when faced with the challenges of game development, especially the the technical side to game development like programming, only a few brave souls make it. Audio Game Maker is intended as a solution for this problem and focus on the more fun side of game development, such as quickly turning your idea into a game. It is absolutely true that at some point you will have an idea for something in a game and that when you try to execute that idea in Audio Game Maker, you find that it isn't possible. In all of my experience with computers, I haven't encountered a single application where I couldn't think of something that would improve it. It's all the same for Audio Game Maker - there simply isn't an application which allows you to do everything. Not for game development, not for word-processing, not for audio-editing, etc. The only solution to execute your specific idea is to start writing your own game in code. Many people have already posted about this, so I won't press this issue. But I wanted to repeat it, since it makes all the difference in the world. So where does this leave Audio Game Maker - where you are (fact) limited in what you can build? I believe, even with the limitations of the application, that Audio Game Maker can contribute a great deal to the field of audio games. First of all, I think that 'limitation stimulates creativity'. Many ideas for audio games that I read here are based on existing games, with only a change of narrative, but which still incorporate the same game mechanics. Since Audio Game Maker might not feature the functionality that allows you to rebuilt exactly the same game functionality of another game so you are forced to either use a clever work-around or change your idea. And this might lead to an even better, more original idea which might even be more fun. Of course Audio Game Maker should allow you with enough functionality to get somewhere. But I think it does :) Audio Game Maker is also an experiment in the sense that it is the first time that something like this has been tried. So far I haven't heard of a similar project/product. I know about RPG Game Engine and Audio Adventure Engine and so forth (please see http://www.audiogames.net/page.php?pagefile=links under Audio Game Development
Re: [Audyssey] a few thoughts about what audio game maker couldcause
We will be able to use our own sounds. Josh ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] a few thoughts about what audio game maker couldcause
I feel the good outweighs the bad in this situation. When something new is developed there's always the potential for misuse, but if we dwell only on that and not the good uses to which it could be put, we'd never get anywhere. As for sounds, they crop up in multiple audio games all the time. Like it or not, sound effects aren't easy to come by when you're a blind guy with not a whole lot of money, especially good quality ones. As for showcasing the games, you can always zip them and Email them to people. And I think the AGM web site's going to host some. Bryan and his Girl Jenny - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 9:34 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a few thoughts about what audio game maker couldcause Hi Everett, I think I am safe in saying you are not the only one who has worries about how the audio Game Maker software will effect our market. Instead of 5 or 10 developers we could have a hundred such devs most of them in the amature circle. Not that this is all bad I am afraid this might wind up like the Atari days with a dozen games being the same as the next guys with mods and changes thrown in. There is also a potential with such free software and a desire to make them some, or many users may choose to make or his her favorite games rather than waiting for the companies to develope them. This is good for the end user, but would be bad for the companies currently taking a income off the games they make. If that were to happen the pro dev companies may decide there is no money in it, and leave. Just some doom and gloom concerns I have if this becomes a popular item amoung blind users. Smile. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
