Re: gEDA-user: a different approach to 3D modeling
On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 10:01 PM, kai-martin knaak k...@familieknaak.de wrote: Looks like there is no open 3D exchange format that fits the need of pcb: a) render a beautiful image of a populated board b) integrate pcb in a 3D work-flow to fit the board into some tight space. The existing formats are either limited to surfaces rather than objects (STL, VRML). This prevents efficient processing of the 3D geometry. Or they lack attributes for eye candy (IGES). Or they are overly complex and geared to completely different use cases (STEP) Not knowing anything of which I speak (write?), would COLLADA (https://collada.org/mediawiki/index.php/COLLADA_-_Digital_Asset_and_FX_Exchange_Schema) fit the bill? I just happened to stumble across it last week on something totally unrelated, and then noticed your email saying I need an open 3D exchange format. --wpd ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: current working file name in gschemrc
Currently, my print command in gschemrc is (print-command lp -d PDF) This prints a PDF of the current schematic via cups-pdf. The PDF file appears in $HOME/PDF/ as job_1296-untitled_document.pdf I'd like to replace this with the name of the schematic. The lp command can set the base name of the file with the option -t. But how would I teach gschemrc to automatically fill in the file name of the current schematic? Is there some way to access the file name like this: (print-command lp -d PDF -t $CURRENTFILENAME) ---)kaimartin(--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de GPG key:http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?search=Knaak+kmkop=get ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: exporting single pcb layers
hi geda-users, in the process of cnc-milling a pcb with a custom shape using pcb2gcode [1], i created a polygon on a separate layer. in the following processing steps, i need a gerber file that contains just that polygon (without holes for the pins, becaus they don't belong to the outline). my current workflow is to create a copy of the pcb file and strip away all pins and vias using sed -e 's/^\tPin/# /' -e 's/^\t\(SymbolLine\|Line\)/# /' -e 's/^Via/# /' but that's certainly not ideal. is there a way to either * flag a layer in pcb in such a way that it won't get interference from other layers, * make pcb export only a single layer, or * make pcb remove all layers but one (in that case, i'd still need to duplicate the file)? the last option could be done with an advanced sed script as well, but i'd prefer to rely on pcb for parsing pcb files instead of hoping that the assumptions the sed script works on hold. regards chrysn [1] http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/pcb2gcode/ -- To use raw power is to make yourself infinitely vulnerable to greater powers. -- Bene Gesserit axiom signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: exporting single pcb layers
sed -e 's/^\tPin/# /' -e 's/^\t\(SymbolLine\|Line\)/# /' -e 's/^Via/# /' In my windows PCB CAD, I click 'Export Gerber' and click a layer. If I don't want vias or pins there, I uh,, click a checkbox. GUIs exist for a reason. This is one of those good reasons. -- 1966 called, wants its LISP interpreter back. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: exporting single pcb layers
On Nov 19, 2010, at 7:56 AM, timecop wrote: sed -e 's/^\tPin/# /' -e 's/^\t\(SymbolLine\|Line\)/# /' -e 's/^Via/# /' In my windows PCB CAD, I click 'Export Gerber' and click a layer. What if there's no checkbox for the function you need? If I don't want vias or pins there, I uh,, click a checkbox. GUIs exist for a reason. This is one of those good reasons. That's why GUI apps end up with 1000 checkboxes with incomprehensible functions, requiring hours of work merely to discover that the special case *you* need wasn't considered by the designers. But the computer-literate user of a well-factored toolkit can incorporate things like that sed command in a Makefile as part of an export action and never have to waste time with a GUI to do that job. Automation. There's nothing wrong with a simple GUI app targeting a narrow subset of common development paths. But when GUI designers try to cover every possible case, they are effectively attempting to travel a very long road with a short range vehicle. 1966 called, wants its LISP interpreter back. Can have it: the modern LISPs are better. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: exporting single pcb layers
On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 23:56:50 +0900 timecop time...@gmail.com wrote: In my windows PCB CAD I think the OP wants information about gEDA's PCB editor and not your PCB CAD. Your comment is irrelevant. -- Kovacs Levente leventel...@gmail.com Voice: +36705071002 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: exporting single pcb layers
On Fri, 2010-11-19 at 23:56 +0900, timecop wrote: sed -e 's/^\tPin/# /' -e 's/^\t\(SymbolLine\|Line\)/# /' -e 's/^Via/# /' In my windows PCB CAD, I click 'Export Gerber' and click a layer. If I don't want vias or pins there, I uh,, click a checkbox. GUIs exist for a reason. This is one of those good reasons. Yes, GUIs with checkboxes are great. I really would like a checkbox labeled Delete silly and stupid postings automatically for my email client. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: PCB+GL resistor p0rn
http://www2.eng.cam.ac.uk/~pcjc2/geda/pcb+gl_3d/pcb+gl_3d_packages_mockup3.png http://www2.eng.cam.ac.uk/~pcjc2/geda/pcb+gl_3d/pcb+gl_3d_packages_mockup4.png Perhaps pixel shaders and bump mapping is a little overkill for a few resistors, but it has kept me amused for a while. I'm working on a VRML importer at the moment, as this will give us access to models people have created for KiCad. (And hopefully the converse too, when PCB+GL+3D lands and users start creating models). /me hating flex and bison like a pro now ;) Best wishes, -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: exporting single pcb layers
chrysn chr...@fsfe.org writes: hi geda-users, in the process of cnc-milling a pcb with a custom shape using pcb2gcode [1], i created a polygon on a separate layer. in the following processing steps, i need a gerber file that contains just that polygon (without holes for the pins, becaus they don't belong to the outline). Just name the layer outline without the quotes, lowercase. Draw the outline with lines, in an exact closed loop, not as a polygone. The gerber export will magically do what you need. [1] http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/pcb2gcode/ -- Stephan Böttcher FAX: +49-431-880-3968 Extraterrestrische PhysikTel: +49-431-880-2508 I.f.Exp.u.Angew.Physik mailto:boettc...@physik.uni-kiel.de Leibnizstr. 11, 24118 Kiel, Germany ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: STEP Format? [WAS: Re: PCB+GL+3D Packages??]
On Fri, 2010-11-19 at 01:29 +0100, kai-martin knaak wrote: Peter Clifton wrote: stl (very nice) IMHO, stl is a mesh only format. That is, everything is made of triangles -- no squares, no circles, no real curvatures. There are no macros, no loops, or repetitions. That suits me just fine.. OpenGL _likes_ rendering triangles, and any other geometry primitives are extra work to implement ;) A decent pcb would make for a pretty large stl file if all the vias and pin holes were to be modeled realistically. Named objects are unknown to stl. This renders stl a one way format for most construction purposes. I've been looking for a format to _import_ 3D models of components for a quick rough viewing within PCB. I concur that we probably don't want many of the suggested formats for CAD interchange. I concur with your other points, but think I'll play with VRML models for now. I'm _hoping_ that there will be a route to do: Serious component model in CAD - VRML for use within PCB. -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB+GL resistor p0rn
On Fri, 2010-11-19 at 17:21 +, Peter Clifton wrote: http://www2.eng.cam.ac.uk/~pcjc2/geda/pcb+gl_3d/pcb+gl_3d_packages_mockup3.png http://www2.eng.cam.ac.uk/~pcjc2/geda/pcb+gl_3d/pcb+gl_3d_packages_mockup4.png Wow, they look amazing! Perhaps pixel shaders and bump mapping is a little overkill for a few resistors, but it has kept me amused for a while. I'm sure one day we'll be able to export the whole thing to a format which can be used in blender for those times you need super realistic renderings ;) Richard signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB+GL resistor p0rn
On Fri, 2010-11-19 at 17:30 +, Richard Barlow wrote: On Fri, 2010-11-19 at 17:21 +, Peter Clifton wrote: http://www2.eng.cam.ac.uk/~pcjc2/geda/pcb+gl_3d/pcb+gl_3d_packages_mockup3.png http://www2.eng.cam.ac.uk/~pcjc2/geda/pcb+gl_3d/pcb+gl_3d_packages_mockup4.png Wow, they look amazing! Thanks. About 1000 lines of C code to produce though ;) Perhaps pixel shaders and bump mapping is a little overkill for a few resistors, but it has kept me amused for a while. I'm sure one day we'll be able to export the whole thing to a format which can be used in blender for those times you need super realistic renderings ;) I wish I knew blender or some other 3D modelling package. I am playing with writing a VRML importer - which should be able to read files exported by Wings32 (like KiCad), but I can't for the life of me figure out how to drive Wings32 to create a new model! Best wishes, -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: a different approach to 3D modeling
On Fri, 2010-11-19 at 06:15 -0500, Patrick Doyle wrote: Not knowing anything of which I speak (write?), would COLLADA (https://collada.org/mediawiki/index.php/COLLADA_-_Digital_Asset_and_FX_Exchange_Schema) fit the bill? I just happened to stumble across it last week on something totally unrelated, and then noticed your email saying I need an open 3D exchange format. Blender imports and exports it too, which is nice. I just exported a simple cube from blender into Collada format, and it isn't too frightening, but it is not so simple as VRML. Perhaps it ranks as nice to have, especially if there is some good modelling software which only makes that format. For now, I think in the spirit of co-operation with our FOSS bretheren / competitors, VRML is the way forward. In the short term, we benefit from pre-existing models from KiCad, in the long term, we both benefit from more users generating models. -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: a different approach to 3D modeling
On Fri, 2010-11-19 at 17:43 +, Peter Clifton wrote: On Fri, 2010-11-19 at 06:15 -0500, Patrick Doyle wrote: Not knowing anything of which I speak (write?), would COLLADA (https://collada.org/mediawiki/index.php/COLLADA_-_Digital_Asset_and_FX_Exchange_Schema) fit the bill? I just happened to stumble across it last week on something totally unrelated, and then noticed your email saying I need an open 3D exchange format. Blender imports and exports it too, which is nice. I just exported a simple cube from blender into Collada format, and it isn't too frightening, but it is not so simple as VRML. Perhaps it ranks as nice to have, especially if there is some good modelling software which only makes that format. By which I mean Google Sketchup, of course.. I've not used it myself, as it dies under Wine for me (setting up GL), but apparently it is good. Unfortunately only the Pro (pay-for) version supports export to VRML. -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: New branch of PCB
On Tuesday 16 Nov 2010 11:09:34 timecop wrote: With TopoR having a freeware version for 2 layers and up to 256 nets (or some other fairly high for 'hobby' use limitation), there's not really any point on bothering improving built in autorouter... Even this single sentence contains so many factual inaccuracies and completely incorrect assumptions that I can't work out where best to start refuting it. Peter ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: a different approach to 3D modeling
On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 1:23 PM, Peter Clifton pc...@cam.ac.uk wrote: On Fri, 2010-11-19 at 17:43 +, Peter Clifton wrote: On Fri, 2010-11-19 at 06:15 -0500, Patrick Doyle wrote: Not knowing anything of which I speak (write?), would COLLADA (https://collada.org/mediawiki/index.php/COLLADA_-_Digital_Asset_and_FX_Exchange_Schema) fit the bill? I just happened to stumble across it last week on something totally unrelated, and then noticed your email saying I need an open 3D exchange format. Blender imports and exports it too, which is nice. I just exported a simple cube from blender into Collada format, and it isn't too frightening, but it is not so simple as VRML. Perhaps it ranks as nice to have, especially if there is some good modelling software which only makes that format. By which I mean Google Sketchup, of course.. I've not used it myself, as it dies under Wine for me (setting up GL), but apparently it is good. Unfortunately only the Pro (pay-for) version supports export to VRML. So then why not use COLLADA and blender? (I'm not trying to push for this, or to pick a fight, I'm just curious and trying to learn something totally new to me.) --wpd ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: STEP Format? [WAS: Re: PCB+GL+3D Packages??]
On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 17:27:45 + Peter Clifton pc...@cam.ac.uk wrote: On Fri, 2010-11-19 at 01:29 +0100, kai-martin knaak wrote: Peter Clifton wrote: stl (very nice) IMHO, stl is a mesh only format. That is, everything is made of triangles -- no squares, no circles, no real curvatures. There are no macros, no loops, or repetitions. That suits me just fine.. OpenGL _likes_ rendering triangles, and any other geometry primitives are extra work to implement ;) But wouldn't support for higher-level shapes be superior to triangle meshes for high-quality renderings (e.g., raytracing, etc.)? Is the goal for PCB 3D support intended to be primarily for high-quality renderings or for real-time viewing of and interaction with the 3D scene? On the other hand, it may be that most PCB elements can be quite accurately represented with triangle meshes, especially flat, rectangular SMT parts. Through-hole parts tend to have more round shapes that would be much more expensive to accurately model with triangle meshes: cylindrical resistors, disc-shaped ceramic capacitors, etc. Regards, Colin ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: STEP Format? [WAS: Re: PCB+GL+3D Packages??]
On 11/19/2010 03:06 PM, Colin D Bennett wrote: Through-hole parts tend to have more round shapes that would be much more expensive to accurately model with triangle meshes: cylindrical resistors, disc-shaped ceramic capacitors, etc. STL seems to work fine for those shapes - your tool just chooses triangles that are long and skinny to accurately model the side of a cylinder for instance. The other formats are wanted just for interoperability and translation. VRML might do fine for that. John G ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: a different approach to 3D modeling
On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 15:24:05 -0500 Patrick Doyle wpds...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 1:23 PM, Peter Clifton pc...@cam.ac.uk wrote: On Fri, 2010-11-19 at 17:43 +, Peter Clifton wrote: Perhaps it ranks as nice to have, especially if there is some good modelling software which only makes that format. By which I mean Google Sketchup, of course.. I've not used it myself, as it dies under Wine for me (setting up GL), but apparently it is good. Unfortunately only the Pro (pay-for) version supports export to VRML. So then why not use COLLADA and blender? (I'm not trying to push for this, or to pick a fight, I'm just curious and trying to learn something totally new to me.) It has to be mentioned that Blender is free and open source but Google Sketchup is not. Regards, Colin ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: a different approach to 3D modeling
On Fri, 2010-11-19 at 15:24 -0500, Patrick Doyle wrote: So then why not use COLLADA and blender? (I'm not trying to push for this, or to pick a fight, I'm just curious and trying to learn something totally new to me.) 1. KiCad 2. VRML is easier to implement perhaps? 3. Blender can also save VRML (+lots of other formats) I'm trying to design the data-structures with both VRML, Collada and additional internally generated models in mind. I've got a Collada file open right now. It is completely understandable, but will probably take a bit more work extracting data from it reliably as there is a lot more referencing which is done by name within the DOM, rather than implied by the structure of the file. -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: STEP Format? [WAS: Re: PCB+GL+3D Packages??]
On Fri, 2010-11-19 at 13:06 -0800, Colin D Bennett wrote: That suits me just fine.. OpenGL _likes_ rendering triangles, and any other geometry primitives are extra work to implement ;) But wouldn't support for higher-level shapes be superior to triangle meshes for high-quality renderings (e.g., raytracing, etc.)? Is the goal for PCB 3D support intended to be primarily for high-quality renderings or for real-time viewing of and interaction with the 3D scene? Primarily for the latter (at the moment). I imagine your component design workflow is: Proper 3D CAD (e.g. insert cad program here) - or | | 3D graphics (e.g. Blender) | | | | | | \|/ | | Export VRML / Collada / ... for PCB's library| \|/ | |Export CAD constraints, case etc.. \|/ | Design board using PCB || | - Emit rendering description in graphics friendly format --- \|/ | | Emit board shape / component placement as CAD data in some format | | | \|/ | Render board in graphics app. \|/ povtrace / blender? Model board in CAD, design casing around it / whatever I'm coming round to the idea that 3D is more than just eye candy if we do it nicely. It helps visualise component placement and layout issues far more readily than just looking at flat layers can do. Your brain may spot issues it wouldn't otherwise. I have also spoken to design professionals who value the ability to emit 3D renderings, however rough, as it allows better communication of project progress and design ideas to clients, who may not themselves be technical. (Think.. your manager??) triangle meshes: cylindrical resistors, disc-shaped ceramic capacitors, My shiny through hole resistor screen-shots had approx 6000 panels, and yes, it does slow things down if you have lots on screen at once! -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: a different approach to 3D modeling
On Fri, 2010-11-19 at 14:07 -0800, Colin D Bennett wrote: It has to be mentioned that Blender is free and open source but Google Sketchup is not. I took that as known, but I don't disprove of using good commercial software to do a job. I find Blender quite challenging to work with. -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: a different approach to 3D modeling
Am 19.11.2010 23:07, schrieb Colin D Bennett: It has to be mentioned that Blender is free and open source but Google Sketchup is not. Let's not forget other free software, like wings3d, which may be less powerful compared to blender, but is much more newbie-friendly, and quite good for modelling (which it focuses on more than blender). AFAIK it has wuite a number of export plugins though, which should make supporting it easier. Philipp ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: a different approach to 3D modeling
Hi: El 19/11/10 23:07, Colin D Bennett escribió: On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 15:24:05 -0500 Patrick Doylewpds...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 1:23 PM, Peter Cliftonpc...@cam.ac.uk wrote: On Fri, 2010-11-19 at 17:43 +, Peter Clifton wrote: Perhaps it ranks as nice to have, especially if there is some good modelling software which only makes that format. By which I mean Google Sketchup, of course.. I've not used it myself, as it dies under Wine for me (setting up GL), but apparently it is good. Unfortunately only the Pro (pay-for) version supports export to VRML. So then why not use COLLADA and blender? (I'm not trying to push for this, or to pick a fight, I'm just curious and trying to learn something totally new to me.) It has to be mentioned that Blender is free and open source but Google Sketchup is not. And runs on non x86 platforms. Sketchup, and wine, doesn't. Please remember non x86 platforms (like PowerPC users how me) in yours decisions, there are solutions that aren't fully compatible in others platforms. Regards, Colin Best regards. Salud y Revolución. Lobo. -- Libertad es poder elegir en cualquier momento. Ahora yo elijo GNU/Linux, para no atar mis manos con las cadenas del soft propietario. - Desde El Ejido, en Almería, usuario registrado Linux #294013 http://www.counter.li.org ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: STEP Format? [WAS: Re: PCB+GL+3D Packages??]
On 20/11/10 10:02, Peter Clifton wrote: On Fri, 2010-11-19 at 13:06 -0800, Colin D Bennett wrote: That suits me just fine.. OpenGL _likes_ rendering triangles, and any other geometry primitives are extra work to implement ;) But wouldn't support for higher-level shapes be superior to triangle meshes for high-quality renderings (e.g., raytracing, etc.)? Is the goal for PCB 3D support intended to be primarily for high-quality renderings or for real-time viewing of and interaction with the 3D scene? Primarily for the latter (at the moment). I imagine your component design workflow is: Proper 3D CAD (e.g.insert cad program here) - or | | 3D graphics (e.g. Blender) | | | | | | \|/ | | Export VRML / Collada / ... for PCB's library| \|/ | |Export CAD constraints, case etc.. \|/ | Design board using PCB || | - Emit rendering description in graphics friendly format --- \|/ | | Emit board shape / component placement as CAD data in some format | | | \|/ | Render board in graphics app. \|/ povtrace / blender? Model board in CAD, design casing around it / whatever I'm coming round to the idea that 3D is more than just eye candy if we do it nicely. It helps visualise component placement and layout issues far more readily than just looking at flat layers can do. Your brain may spot issues it wouldn't otherwise. I have also spoken to design professionals who value the ability to emit 3D renderings, however rough, as it allows better communication of project progress and design ideas to clients, who may not themselves be technical. (Think.. your manager??) triangle meshes: cylindrical resistors, disc-shaped ceramic capacitors, My shiny through hole resistor screen-shots had approx 6000 panels, and yes, it does slow things down if you have lots on screen at once! Are you using a spatial data structure to omit emitting polygons for off-screen components? ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: STEP Format? [WAS: Re: PCB+GL+3D Packages??]
On Sat, 2010-11-20 at 11:01 +1100, Russell Shaw wrote: Are you using a spatial data structure to omit emitting polygons for off-screen components? PCB does that (spatial data-structures) already for rendering layers, so yes. With the 3D perspective view, I fall back to rendering the whole board at certain view angles which make it more awkward to calculate the on-screen coverage of the board. This happens when the corners of the viewport don't lie on the projection of the board plane, e.g. for near edge-on views. (Which usually show most of the board anyway). For the individual component models, no.. let GL deal with it. It is unlikely you'll zoom into one so close that culling panels on the CPU will be a big win. It _is_ very helpful for board geometry though. -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: STEP Format? [WAS: Re: PCB+GL+3D Packages??]
It looks like you are almost to the next step, but probably the biggest value of having good 3d representations is the ability to do clearance checking as a DRC. This is not just visualization, it is rule-driven placement and flagging of errors when you place components in conflict with each other, enclosures, or anything else you want to represent in the PCB. My most recent designs were with Altium Designer, and they use STEP as their 3d format of choice. This is nice, because most connector manufacturers provide relatively good STEP models of their parts for this purpose. Altium supports simple objects like cubes and cylinders for most parts, but connectors are always the biggest pain, so it was helpful to be able to import a STEP. You get the pathway to pretty pictures too, but those are sort of on a different level of value (mostly for show and tell). If PCB could support clearance checking for components (as well as normal electrical and other clearances), you'd get the best benefit of 3d representations. Here are some notes on the checking in Altium: http://wiki.altium.com/display/ADOH/Component+Clearance On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 3:02 PM, Peter Clifton pc...@cam.ac.uk wrote: On Fri, 2010-11-19 at 13:06 -0800, Colin D Bennett wrote: That suits me just fine.. OpenGL _likes_ rendering triangles, and any other geometry primitives are extra work to implement ;) But wouldn't support for higher-level shapes be superior to triangle meshes for high-quality renderings (e.g., raytracing, etc.)? Is the goal for PCB 3D support intended to be primarily for high-quality renderings or for real-time viewing of and interaction with the 3D scene? Primarily for the latter (at the moment). I imagine your component design workflow is: Proper 3D CAD (e.g. insert cad program here) - or | | 3D graphics (e.g. Blender) | | | | | | \|/ | | Export VRML / Collada / ... for PCB's library | \|/ | | Export CAD constraints, case etc.. \|/ | Design board using PCB | | | - Emit rendering description in graphics friendly format --- \|/ | | Emit board shape / component placement as CAD data in some format | | | \|/ | Render board in graphics app. \|/ povtrace / blender? Model board in CAD, design casing around it / whatever I'm coming round to the idea that 3D is more than just eye candy if we do it nicely. It helps visualise component placement and layout issues far more readily than just looking at flat layers can do. Your brain may spot issues it wouldn't otherwise. I have also spoken to design professionals who value the ability to emit 3D renderings, however rough, as it allows better communication of project progress and design ideas to clients, who may not themselves be technical. (Think.. your manager??) triangle meshes: cylindrical resistors, disc-shaped ceramic capacitors, My shiny through hole resistor screen-shots had approx 6000 panels, and yes, it does slow things down if you have lots on screen at once! -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: STEP Format? [WAS: Re: PCB+GL+3D Packages??]
On 20/11/10 11:43, kai-martin knaak wrote: John Griessen wrote: STL seems to work fine for those shapes - your tool just chooses triangles that are long and skinny to accurately model the side of a cylinder for instance. ... and the file size explodes. If the wires of thru hole components are supposed to look vaguely realistic on zoom, at least 20 triangles per cylinder are needed. The 90° bend needs another 40 triangles. Every triangle requires 3 nodes and every node includes three coordinates plus orientation. That way, the stl size of a simple resistor may easily xceed the memory footprint of its footprint by two orders of magnitude. You need lots of polygons for smooth shading only if the polygons are flat-shaded. If fewer polygons are used but with decent shading, the main effect is that the silhouette has a few visible corners. That wouldn't matter much for resistors. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gouraud_shading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phong_shading The other formats are wanted just for interoperability and translation. VRML might do fine for that. VRML is very similar to STL in that both are formats to export from 3D CAD applications to rendering software like blender. They both communicate just meshes, no objects. Beause of this, they are they are less useful as imports for 3D editing. From mechanical point of view these mesh formats are one-way roads. ---)kaimartin(--- ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: STEP Format? [WAS: Re: PCB+GL+3D Packages??]
Peter Clifton wrote: I'm coming round to the idea that 3D is more than just eye candy if we do it nicely. yes! It helps visualise component placement and layout issues far more readily than just looking at flat layers can do. Even better: It aids the process of enclosing design in a very practical way. I do this even in the absence of a way to transfer geometrical data from pcb to 3D CAD. The 3D model below, was not done for the sake of eye candy, but as part of the front panel construction: http://bibo.iqo.uni- hannover.de/dokuwiki/lib/exe/detail.php?id=eigenbau%3Alasertreibermedia=eigenbau:lasertreiber:frontplatte_lasertreiber.png I have also spoken to design professionals who value the ability to emit 3D renderings, however rough, as it allows better communication of project progress and design ideas to clients, who may not themselves be technical. (Think.. your manager??) Very true. triangle meshes: cylindrical resistors, disc-shaped ceramic capacitors, My shiny through hole resistor screen-shots had approx 6000 panels, Ok, bump up my estimation from the last mail by an order of magnitude ;-) and yes, it does slow things down if you have lots on screen at once! That's why I'd prefer to stick with the object approach as long as possible. And keep the rendering business away from the pcb binary. ---)kaimartin(--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB+GL resistor p0rn
Peter Clifton wrote: I'm sure one day we'll be able to export the whole thing to a format which can be used in blender for those times you need super realistic renderings ;) VRML is already such a format :-) I wish I knew blender This close-up of a laser diode package shows what blender is very good at -- render shapes as in a super natural way. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Laserdiode_housing.png?uselang=de The shape was done with varicad and exported to blender as STL. Note the artifacts on the supposedly smooth surfaces. There are filters to get rid of these artifacts in the renders image. However, in this case, the image looks better as it is. When it comes to 3D construction, mesh formats like STL or VRML won't help you much, though. I am playing with writing a VRML importer - which should be able to read files exported by Wings32 (like KiCad), but I can't for the life of me figure out how to drive Wings32 to create a new model! I'd strongly prefer to do 3D models with a full fledged 3D CAD application. Preferably with the CAD app I use for the rest of my construction work. That's the benefit if pcb would communicate the full information of the layout to a free 3D CAD app. This app would shoulder the tedious import/export to the complex formats of the real 3D CAD world -- IGES, STEP, DWG, ... Did I mention, that mesh formats are a one way road, when it comes to construction? (Please tell me, that I don't need to make that point over and over again ;-) ---)kaimartin(--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: STEP Format? [WAS: Re: PCB+GL+3D Packages??]
On Sat, 2010-11-20 at 11:59 +1100, Russell Shaw wrote: If fewer polygons are used but with decent shading, the main effect is that the silhouette has a few visible corners. That wouldn't matter much for resistors. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gouraud_shading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phong_shading FWIW, my resistors were shaded with a crude Blinn-Phong pixel shader. (Simplified by having the viewer and light at infinity). (I think!) That was basically what fell out of me doing bump mapping, albeit very inefficiently. I probably ought to use the vertex shader to compute the texture space basis vectors rather than CPU. -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: a different approach to 3D modeling
Bert Timmerman wrote: http://openscad.org/ And the beginning of an OpenSCAD exporter for pcb, on top of a recent (current) clone of the pcb git repository: https://github.com/bert/pcb-openscad Please give me your thoughts and opinions on both. I see a nice way to produce 3D models non-interactively. The models can be exported as a mesh in STL format. This allows for import to blender for super naturalistic rendering. Goal number one achieved :-) I don't see a work flow to 3D construction apps. There is DXF output. But this is 2D, only. So goal number two seems out of reach. Is there a STEP export in the pipeline? ---)kaimartin(--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB+GL resistor p0rn
On Sat, 2010-11-20 at 02:39 +0100, kai-martin knaak wrote: Did I mention, that mesh formats are a one way road, when it comes to construction? (Please tell me, that I don't need to make that point over and over again ;-) Got it ;) -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB+GL resistor p0rn
Peter Clifton wrote: when PCB+GL+3D lands and users start creating models). ^ I'd love to see PCB+GL enter the main repo rather than wait until 3D is mature enough, too. ---)kaimartin( -- Kai-Martin Knaak Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: a different approach to 3D modeling
On Fri, 2010-11-19 at 23:43 +0100, Philipp Klaus Krause wrote: Let's not forget other free software, like wings3d, which may be less powerful compared to blender, but is much more newbie-friendly, and quite good for modelling (which it focuses on more than blender). AFAIK it has wuite a number of export plugins though, which should make supporting it easier. Wings3D can export to most if not all the formats I'm interested in, but now you make me feel stupid.. I couldn't figure out how to get started with it other than opening existing models. Since you say it is newbie friendly, I'll go back and try again. -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB+GL resistor p0rn
On Sat, 2010-11-20 at 03:00 +0100, kai-martin knaak wrote: Peter Clifton wrote: when PCB+GL+3D lands and users start creating models). ^ I'd love to see PCB+GL enter the main repo rather than wait until 3D is mature enough, too. I've been slowly tinkering with stabilising the code and heading in that direction. One of the big jobs I've been putting off is cleaning up the polygon rasterisation code I stole from cairo, moving it into its own namespace and fixing up some gross API kludges I made. The other nuisance is that the nice fast pixel shader based rendering I've been using and enjoying recently will not necessarily work for everyone. I have to write some tests to check what functionality is available - and (if I feel charitable!), write some fall-backs ;). -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: current working file name in gschemrc
Paul Tan wrote: (get-selected-filename) is a Gschem Scheme procedure which returns the current page filename as string. Unfortunately, my gschem segfaults right away, if gschemrc contains the (get-selected-filename) procedure. It segfaults even if the line is reduced to (define name (get-selected-filename)) ---)kaimartin(--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: a different approach to 3D modeling
On Sat, 2010-11-20 at 02:05 +, Peter Clifton wrote: Wings3D can export to most if not all the formats I'm interested in, but now you make me feel stupid.. I couldn't figure out how to get started with it other than opening existing models. Since you say it is newbie friendly, I'll go back and try again. Ok.. so you right click on the canvas to insert and manipulate objects. I've been using CAD apps deprived of useful mouse context menus for too long (looks at gEDA and PCB ;)). I could still go insane quite fast trying to draw a complex model in Wings3D. I managed a cylinder and something touching it, but found myself wanting to hurl the computer very readily. I suppose I've been spoilt coming from a background where the only CAD I've used is PTC's Pro-Engineer, which has a really nice parametric sketch editor you can extrude or revolve parts from. Any real CAD beats tools for graphic designers for objects where you want to get dimensions accurate I guess. -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB+GL resistor p0rn
3D renderings of through-hole components is great and all, but this IS 2010, anyone still using through-hole stuff can just use Fritzing or something. How about adding relevant features to PCB, like boolean operations on copper pours that aren't a hack or ... hey, who am I kidding. -tc On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 11:18 AM, Peter Clifton pc...@cam.ac.uk wrote: On Sat, 2010-11-20 at 03:00 +0100, kai-martin knaak wrote: Peter Clifton wrote: when PCB+GL+3D lands and users start creating models). ^ I'd love to see PCB+GL enter the main repo rather than wait until 3D is mature enough, too. I've been slowly tinkering with stabilising the code and heading in that direction. One of the big jobs I've been putting off is cleaning up the polygon rasterisation code I stole from cairo, moving it into its own namespace and fixing up some gross API kludges I made. The other nuisance is that the nice fast pixel shader based rendering I've been using and enjoying recently will not necessarily work for everyone. I have to write some tests to check what functionality is available - and (if I feel charitable!), write some fall-backs ;). -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: current working file name in gschemrc
On 11/19/2010 07:18 PM, kai-martin knaak wrote: Paul Tan wrote: (get-selected-filename) is a Gschem Scheme procedure which returns the current page filename as string. Unfortunately, my gschem segfaults right away, if gschemrc contains the (get-selected-filename) procedure. It segfaults even if the line is reduced to (define name (get-selected-filename)) Well, it shouldn't segfault, but I'm not surprised you can't evaluate it in gschemrc before there is a selected file. What did you expect to happen? ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: current working file name in gschemrc
Hi Kai-Martin Knaak,
Oh, I remember there is a bug in the gschem/src/g_funcs.c file.
You may want to change the get_selected_filename function
in g_funcs.c file, (around line number 299), as follows:
/*
= */
SCM get_selected_filename(GSCHEM_TOPLEVEL *w_current)
{
gchar* s; /*
Added */
SCM return_value;
exit_if_null(w_current);
s = g_strdup(w_current-toplevel-page_current-page_filename); /*
Changed */
return_value = scm_makfrom0str (s); /*
Changed */
g_free (s); /*
Added */
return return_value;/*
Changed */
}
/*
= */
The above change made the (get_selected_filename) work for me.
Hope it helps.
Best Regards,
Paul Tan
___
geda-user mailing list
geda-user@moria.seul.org
http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: current working file name in gschemrc
Hi Kai-Martin Knaak,
(depending on your email system, some lines in the
code below may be just a long single line. So I am
re-sending with the fix for this. Hope it
comes out ok now)
Oh, I remember there is a bug in the gschem/src/g_funcs.c file.
You may want to change the get_selected_filename function
in g_funcs.c file, around line number 299, as follows:
/*
= */
SCM get_selected_filename(GSCHEM_TOPLEVEL *w_current)
{
gchar* s; /*
Added */
SCM return_value;
exit_if_null(w_current);
s = g_strdup(w_current-toplevel-page_current-page_filename); /*
Changed */
return_value = scm_makfrom0str (s); /*
Changed */
g_free (s); /*
Added */
return return_value;/*
Changed */
}
/*
= */
The above change made the (get_selected_filename) work for me.
Hope it helps.
Best Regards,
Paul Tan
___
geda-user mailing list
geda-user@moria.seul.org
http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: current working file name in gschemrc
John Doty wrote: Well, it shouldn't segfault, but I'm not surprised you can't evaluate it in gschemrc before there is a selected file. What did you expect to happen? From the doxygen comment: * This function gets the whole filename of the current schematic. * Specifically, the Bpage_filename/B of the current page. ---)kaimartin(--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: current working file name in gschemrc
Paul Tan wrote:
Hope it helps.
I still get segfaults. My get_selected_filename procedure
looks like this now:
/---
SCM get_selected_filename(GSCHEM_TOPLEVEL *w_current)
{
gchar* s;
SCM return_value;
exit_if_null(w_current);
s = g_strdup(w_current-toplevel-page_current-page_filename);
return_value = scm_makfrom0str (s);
g_free (s);
return (return_value);
}
\
---)kaimartin(
--
Kai-Martin Knaak
Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel:
http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x6C0B9F53
___
geda-user mailing list
geda-user@moria.seul.org
http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: current working file name in gschemrc
On 11/19/2010 08:59 PM, kai-martin knaak wrote: John Doty wrote: Well, it shouldn't segfault, but I'm not surprised you can't evaluate it in gschemrc before there is a selected file. What did you expect to happen? From the doxygen comment: * This function gets the whole filename of the current schematic. What's the current schematic at gschem startup, when gschemrc is executed? * Specifically, theBpage_filename/B of the current page. ---)kaimartin(--- ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Calling Xspice code models through gnetlist
Say, does anyone know how to get spice-sdb or the like to pass non-default port types to ngspice for the xspice code models? Most of the standard code models default to single ended sources eg. %v(1) where the %v() is optional, but often you want a differential input. This means you double the number of nets and the syntax can look like this: A1 %vd(1 2) %vd(3 4) %vd(5 6) etc... It would be great if you could just abreviate things like: A1 %vd(1 2 3 4 5 6) but I guess that's not in the cards right now... Because then you could add a trailing %vd( to Refdes and prepend a ')' to value and you would be set, for the simple case of changing all to differential anyway. Is there a stash of gnetlist guile hacks somewhere? Thanks, Clif ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: current working file name in gschemrc
On Friday 19 November 2010 12:22:05 Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: I'd like to replace this with the name of the schematic. The lp command can set the base name of the file with the option -t. But how would I teach gschemrc to automatically fill in the file name of the current schematic? Is there some way to access the file name like this: (print-command lp -d PDF -t $CURRENTFILENAME) Hi Kai-Martin, You will be pleased to hear that this is doable without my Scheme API branch. But everything Paul Tan has told you so far has been wrong. :-( What we're going to do is to override the Scheme function that is called to show the print window, so that it first resets the print-command with the filename of the current file. You'll need to add the following to your gschemrc: (define %file-print file-print) (define (file-print) (print-command (format #f lp -d PDF -t \~A\ (get-selected-filename))) (gschem-use-rc-values) (%file-print)) It is horrible and nasty, but it seems to work. Regards, Peter -- Peter Brett pe...@peter-b.co.uk Remote Sensing Research Group Surrey Space Centre signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
