Re: gEDA-user: get-package-attribute sometimes returns ? - ID: 3114991

2010-12-16 Thread Peter TB Brett
 To fix it in a uniform way I think we need to standardise what we 
 use as a place holder for an attribute. Sould we explicitly put
 unknown   or ?? Unfortunitly gschem won't let you put a null string.

Hi Clif,

Since at the moment gnetlist internally uses the string unknown to indicate a 
missing attribute, so that would be the logical choice to use instead of ? at 
this time.

In the longer term, I would actually quite like it to be legal to have 
attributes with zero-length values.  However, that would obviously be a more 
complicated patch.

I think that the spice-sdb backend should continue to choke on blah=? 
attributes, for now.

Regards,

Peter

-- 
Peter Brett pe...@peter-b.co.uk
Remote Sensing Research Group
Surrey Space Centre
- Original message -
 Hi Gang,
 
 This is about a patch I submitted a while back because myself and others 
 didn't understand the souce of the ?. Patrick found it though. They
 are   from the spice A.. blocks. The value of some of the unpromoted
 attributes   are ?. Apparently they are place holders to remind someone
 to add real   values in the same way R? is a place holder for a refdes.
 
 
 The other choice is to not list attributes without useable values, but 
 then you don't have the reminder of which ones to fill in. This gets
 used   like a short version of the add attribute drop down menu, however
 you have   to click on show inherited attributes to see them. Though
 most people   don't do that and then wonder where the errors come from.
 ;-)
 
 If neither of those choices sound good then I have an off the wall one.
 We   could allow null value attributes which are always promoted so you
 would   see them, and this would be a poor mans form in which you have
 the option   of providing their values, or even deleting them.
 Get-package-attribute   would return unknown for attributes which exist
 but have null values.
 
 Any thoughts?
 
       Clif
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: gEDA-user: FUNDING

2010-12-16 Thread Peter TB Brett
 Before this deteriorates into a my software is better than your
 software contest, can I suggest that we try to keep things on-topic?

An excellent suggestion.

 Peter :-(

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Remote Sensing Research Group
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Re: gEDA-user: 2mm 2 x 4 surface mount header

2010-12-16 Thread John Luciani
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 10:42 PM, George M. Gallant, Jr.
ggallant...@verizon.net wrote:
 I am looking for the footprint for a 2 x 4 2mm surface mount header.

I have some for one of the Molex series at

http://www.luciani.org/geda/pcb/pcb-footprint-list.html

(* jcl *)


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Re: gEDA-user: 2mm 2 x 4 surface mount header

2010-12-16 Thread Stefan Salewski
On Wed, 2010-12-15 at 22:42 -0500, George M. Gallant, Jr. wrote:
 I am looking for the footprint for a 2 x 4 2mm surface mount header.
 
 Geoge
 

Maybe

http://www.luciani.org/geda/pcb/footprints-gif/CON_HDR-200P-gif.html

Or custom one in few minutes with

http://www.ssalewski.de/SFG.html.en




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gEDA-user: get-package-attribute sometimes returns ? - ID: 3114991

2010-12-16 Thread clif

Hi Peter,

Ok so we toss current patch in 3114991. Should I make a new one that 
replaces all the ? in symbols / blocks with unknown?


If spice-sdb should choke on any remaining ? it runs across, then I 
guess my second patch (3117075) is good to go.


It seems that another example of attribute placeholders is the 
footprint=none convention. The zero-length values feature might allow us 
to clean up other special cases as well.


Ciao,
Clif


Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 10:33:39 +
From: Peter TB Brett pe...@peter-b.co.uk
Subject: Re: gEDA-user: get-package-attribute sometimes returns ? -

Clif wrote:

To fix it in a uniform way I think we need to standardise what we
use as a place holder for an attribute. Sould we explicitly put
unknown?  or ?? Unfortunitly gschem won't let you put a null 

string.


Hi Clif,

Since at the moment gnetlist internally uses the string unknown to
indicate a missing attribute, so that would be the logical choice to use
instead of ? at this time.

In the longer term, I would actually quite like it to be legal to have
attributes with zero-length values.  However, that would obviously be a
more complicated patch.

I think that the spice-sdb backend should continue to choke on blah=?
attributes, for now.

Regards,

   Peter

--
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Remote Sensing Research Group
Surrey Space Centre





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gEDA-user: Erroneous rats added to PCB

2010-12-16 Thread Peter Laurich
   Hi,
   I have looked through the gEDA mail archives, searched the web, RTFM,
   looked through FAQs and experimented all in an attempt to sort through
   my challenges with pcb. ...
   I have been using gEDA and pcb to complete a board layout. This is my
   second significant layout with the first completing successfully. I
   recently moved to pcb version 1.99z after experiencing instability
   problems with pcb 20091103.
   My .pcb file from 20091103 had 76 rats left to clean-up when I made the
   change. pcb 1.99z was able to read the pcb file but it reports 135 rats
   remaining. When I look at some of the additional rats, it is clear that
   for some reason, these extra rats will result in shorting together a
   number of nets. After computing the new rats list (key o) and looking
   at warnings (key w), there are now numerous nets shorted together and
   the number of rats has increased again to 197.
   I thought that I had something very basic wrong but my experimentation
   and searching has not uncovered others who have seen this problem. I
   can take one my the schematic files (rather than the whole set), use
   gsch2pcb to create a new pcb file and then use pcb with a much smaller
   set of components. The latest version of pcb exhibits this random,
   shorting rats behaviour whereas the 20091103 version does not. In this
   test, I go through the same procedure (start with the output from
   gsch2pcb, start pcb, load the netlist, disperse all elements and then
   optimize rats nest) but 1.99z continues to generate extra, bogus rats.
   Has anyone else seen this problem?
   More importantly, any idea what I am doing incorrectly?
   Thanks in advance.
   Peter


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Re: gEDA-user: Erroneous rats added to PCB

2010-12-16 Thread DJ Delorie

Peter Laurich peter.laur...@akamina.com writes:
 Has anyone else seen this problem?

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detailaid=3137324group_id=73743atid=538811


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Re: gEDA-user: get-package-attribute sometimes returns ? - ID: 3114991

2010-12-16 Thread Peter TB Brett
On Thursday 16 December 2010 20:43:23 c...@eugeneweb.com wrote:

 Ok so we toss current patch in 3114991.

Done.

 Should I make a new one that
 replaces all the ? in symbols / blocks with unknown?

That sounds like a good idea, actually.

 If spice-sdb should choke on any remaining ? it runs across, then I
 guess my second patch (3117075) is good to go.

Did you see my e-mail from last Thursday?  I've forwarded it in this e-mail in 
case you missed it. There are a couple of things I wouldn't mind changed, if 
possible.

 It seems that another example of attribute placeholders is the
 footprint=none convention. The zero-length values feature might allow us
 to clean up other special cases as well.

Possibly, yes.

Thanks for your work on this.

   Peter

-- 
Peter Brett pe...@peter-b.co.uk
Remote Sensing Research Group
Surrey Space Centre
---BeginMessage---
Hi Clif,

Firstly, patch 3114991 (get-package-attribute sometimes returns ?).

Two important things:

a) If there is not actually a text object attached to a part with the value 
file=? attribute somewhere, we have a problem.  gnetlist/libgeda really 
shouldn't be manufacturing attributes with the value ?.  A proper fix really 
needs to get to the bottom of why this is happening.

b) The name  behaviour of that C function will be completely changing in the 
next few days, so your patch won't apply (see patch 3071482 -- I am currently 
working with the author to finalise this).

I can't accept this patch in its current form, sorry.  If you don't have time 
to track down where the ? values are coming from, please file a bug and I'll 
try and figure it out at some point.

Secondly, patch 3117075 (spice-sdb -- Several fixes / Cleanups).

a) Please split whitespace changes into a separate patch which *only* changes 
whitespace.  I personally avoid touching whitespace if possible. ;-)  
Actually, this patch would have been better split into a series of patches, 
each of which does one particular clean-up...

b) Syntax for `define' when defining functions.  Here's something I wrote 
yesterday:

 I would greatly appreciate it if the implicit lambda form of `define' was
 used in all new code, i.e.:

   (define (allsame? x)
 (null? (delete (car x) (cdr x
 
 This is preferred in new Scheme code because it eliminates a set of braces
 and an additional keyword, while being unambiguous.  Additionally, this
 syntax means that the second s-expression in the definition matches the
 prototype of the function, which aids in documentation.  Finally, the
 implicit `define' form supports docstrings, which although we don't
 currently use, we may well use in the future.

c) `spice-sdb:filter-map'.  I'm not sure I understand why you can't just use 
`filter-map'...?

d) Changes to prototype of `spice-sdb:write-net-names-on-component' seem 
sensible.

e) `get-net-name' modifies its argument.  Looking at the code, it's not clear 
to me why this is actually necessary -- could you explain, please? :-)

Thanks!

  Peter

-- 
Peter Brett pe...@peter-b.co.uk
Remote Sensing Research Group
Surrey Space Centre


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Re: gEDA-user: Erroneous rats added to PCB

2010-12-16 Thread Peter Clifton
On Thu, 2010-12-16 at 16:37 -0500, DJ Delorie wrote:
 Peter Laurich peter.laur...@akamina.com writes:
  Has anyone else seen this problem?
 
 http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detailaid=3137324group_id=73743atid=538811

Hmm, I can't reproduce that with git HEAD.. any ideas?

-- 
Peter Clifton

Electrical Engineering Division,
Engineering Department,
University of Cambridge,
9, JJ Thomson Avenue,
Cambridge
CB3 0FA

Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!)
Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me)



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Re: gEDA-user: Erroneous rats added to PCB

2010-12-16 Thread Peter Clifton
On Thu, 2010-12-16 at 16:09 -0500, Peter Laurich wrote:
Has anyone else seen this problem?
More importantly, any idea what I am doing incorrectly?

No, and probably nothing...

Any chance you could try a git checkout and test building PCB from that?

git checkout git://git.gpleda.org/pcb.git

-- 
Peter Clifton

Electrical Engineering Division,
Engineering Department,
University of Cambridge,
9, JJ Thomson Avenue,
Cambridge
CB3 0FA

Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!)
Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me)



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Re: gEDA-user: Erroneous rats added to PCB

2010-12-16 Thread Peter Clifton
On Fri, 2010-12-17 at 00:42 +, Peter Clifton wrote:
 On Thu, 2010-12-16 at 16:09 -0500, Peter Laurich wrote:
 Has anyone else seen this problem?
 More importantly, any idea what I am doing incorrectly?
 
 No, and probably nothing...
 
 Any chance you could try a git checkout and test building PCB from that?

Ignore that request.. it was _ME_ who was not up to date with git HEAD.
The bug was introduced in a recent commit:

dbf835c02cda1d16157a83f8c1b9b1da2a05400a

-- 
Peter Clifton

Electrical Engineering Division,
Engineering Department,
University of Cambridge,
9, JJ Thomson Avenue,
Cambridge
CB3 0FA

Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!)
Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me)



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Re: gEDA-user: get-package-attribute sometimes returns ? - ID: 3114991

2010-12-16 Thread John Doty
   On Dec 16, 2010, at 2:50 PM, Peter TB Brett wrote:

 Should I make a new one that

 replaces all the ? in symbols / blocks with unknown?

 That sounds like a good idea, actually.

   I'm not happy with this. The ? is in those symbols for  a reason. I
   do not believe the core code should be trying to outsmart the symbol
   and back-end designer (Stuart in this case).

   That said, spice-sdb needs some work on reasonable behavior in case of
   error

   John Doty  Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd.

   [1]http://www.noqsi.com/

   [2]...@noqsi.com

References

   1. http://www.noqsi.com/
   2. mailto:j...@noqsi.com


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Re: gEDA-user: Erroneous rats added to PCB

2010-12-16 Thread Peter Clifton
On Fri, 2010-12-17 at 01:10 +, Peter Clifton wrote:
 On Fri, 2010-12-17 at 00:42 +, Peter Clifton wrote:
  On Thu, 2010-12-16 at 16:09 -0500, Peter Laurich wrote:
  Has anyone else seen this problem?
  More importantly, any idea what I am doing incorrectly?
  
  No, and probably nothing...
  
  Any chance you could try a git checkout and test building PCB from that?
 
 Ignore that request.. it was _ME_ who was not up to date with git HEAD.
 The bug was introduced in a recent commit:
 
 dbf835c02cda1d16157a83f8c1b9b1da2a05400a


DJ and I just debugged this one over IRC, and came up with a fix. DJ
just pushed it, so you should be able to pick it up from git HEAD.

Thanks for the report!

Best wishes,

-- 
Peter Clifton

Electrical Engineering Division,
Engineering Department,
University of Cambridge,
9, JJ Thomson Avenue,
Cambridge
CB3 0FA

Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!)
Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me)



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gEDA-user: Question about using slots in .sym files

2010-12-16 Thread Young, Michael I. (DFRC-SR)
   I am attempting to model several of the BOURNS 4100R Series resistor
   packs for use in gaf and I have some questions about some of the
   examples referenced in the geda:master_attributes_list.  One of the
   resistor packs has a set of isolated resistors in a package where, for
   example, a two resistor package would have pins 1 and 4 connected by a
   resistor and pins 2 and 3 would be connected by a resistor.  I am
   guessing that I would use numslots=2 and would have slotdef=1:1,4 and
   slotdef=2:2,3.  I would also expect to see two resistor drawings in the
   .sym file for use in gschem.  In the example using the 7400 NAND
   package I see that four slots are defined in the .sym file but only the
   symbol for the first gate is included.  Wouldn't  you normally include
   symbols for each slot or does gschem somehow know to generate the same
   symbol for each slot?  Only one gate shows up for me when I select it
   in gschem.  I did look at the example resistor pack rpack-1.sym but it
   doesn't use the slotdef attribute at all.  Does anybody know why?
   Thanks!
   Michael


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Re: gEDA-user: get-package-attribute sometimes returns ? - ID: 3114991

2010-12-16 Thread clif

Hi John,

Did you see my initial post on this? Maybe I got it wrong but I tried to 
understand the intent as best I could and present my thougths:



Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 22:30:33 -0800 (PST)
From: c...@eugeneweb.com
Subject: gEDA-user: get-package-attribute sometimes returns ? - ID:
  3114991
To: geda-user@moria.seul.org

Hi Gang,

This is about a patch I submitted a while back because myself and others 
didn't understand the souce of the ?. Patrick found it though. They 
are from the spice A.. blocks. The value of some of the unpromoted 
attributes are ?. Apparently they are place holders to remind someone 
to add real values in the same way R? is a place holder for a refdes.


To fix it in a uniform way I think we need to standardise what we use as 
a place holder for an attribute. Sould we explicitly put unknown or 
?? Unfortunitly gschem won't let you put a null string.


The other choice is to not list attributes without useable values, but 
then you don't have the reminder of which ones to fill in. This gets 
used like a short version of the add attribute drop down menu, however 
you have to click on show inherited attributes to see them. Though 
most people don't do that and then wonder where the errors come from. 
;-)


If neither of those choices sound good then I have an off the wall one. 
We could allow null value attributes which are always promoted so you 
would see them, and this would be a poor mans form in which you have the 
option of providing their values, or even deleting them.
Get-package-attribute would return unknown for attributes which exist 
but have null values.


Any thoughts?

  Clif


The only pice of code that currently deals with the ? is this one:

;; sometimes get-package-attribute returns ? instead of unknown.  WTF?  
This should fix that . . .
  (if (string-ci=? model-file ?)
  (set! model-file unknown))
--

We're just trying to move toword a more uniform way of handling it.

Clif


Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 18:58:20 -0700
From: John Doty j...@noqsi.com
Subject: Re: gEDA-user: get-package-attribute sometimes returns ? -
  ID: 3114991

On Dec 16, 2010, at 2:50 PM, Peter TB Brett wrote:


Should I make a new one that
replaces all the ? in symbols / blocks with unknown?


That sounds like a good idea, actually.


I'm not happy with this. The ? is in those symbols for a reason. I do
not believe the core code should be trying to outsmart the symbol and
back-end designer (Stuart in this case).

That said, spice-sdb needs some work on reasonable behavior in case of
error

John Doty  Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd.
http://www.noqsi.com/
j...@noqsi.com






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Re: gEDA-user: Question about using slots in .sym files

2010-12-16 Thread DJ Delorie

One symbol with a slotdef can be renumbered in gschem to create the
other symbols for the rest of the gates/resistors/whatever in the
package.


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Re: gEDA-user: get-package-attribute sometimes returns ? - ID: 3114991

2010-12-16 Thread John Doty

On Dec 16, 2010, at 7:44 PM, c...@eugeneweb.com wrote:

 Hi John,
 
 Did you see my initial post on this?

Yes.

 
 The only pice of code that currently deals with the ? is this one:
 
 ;; sometimes get-package-attribute returns ? instead of unknown.  WTF?  
 This should fix that . . .
  (if (string-ci=? model-file ?)
  (set! model-file unknown))
 --
 
 We're just trying to move toword a more uniform way of handling it.

But that's not uniform. In this case, attribute value is explicitly set to ? 
in the symbol. Now, when an attribute value is *explicitly* set by the 
schematic or symbol designer, there shouldn't be anything in the common code 
that changes it. Making special cases like this is a move *away* from uniform 
handling of attributes.

John Doty  Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd.
http://www.noqsi.com/
j...@noqsi.com




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Re: gEDA-user: Question about using slots in .sym files

2010-12-16 Thread DJ Delorie

Select one of them and do Edit-Slot.  Change the slot and the pin
numbers will change too.


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Re: gEDA-user: Question about using slots in .sym files

2010-12-16 Thread John Doty

On Dec 16, 2010, at 7:24 PM, Young, Michael I. (DFRC-SR) wrote:

 I would also expect to see two resistor drawings in the
   .sym file for use in gschem.

In the slot mechanism, the graphics are identical for each slot.

  In the example using the 7400 NAND
   package I see that four slots are defined in the .sym file but only the
   symbol for the first gate is included.  Wouldn't  you normally include
   symbols for each slot or does gschem somehow know to generate the same
   symbol for each slot?

You use the same symbol for each gate in the package. You set refds for each 
gate in the package to the same value, e.g. U42 or some such. You use 
Edit-Slot to change the slot of the gates so you have one gate each in slots 
1,2,3,4.

John Doty  Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd.
http://www.noqsi.com/
j...@noqsi.com




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Re: gEDA-user: Question about using slots in .sym files

2010-12-16 Thread Young, Michael I. (DFRC-SR)
Ahh!!  Got it!  Thank you!  I didn't see that little titbit in the
documentation I was reading.  I guess I now use the same refdes (e.g.,
refdes=U1) on each one to tell gschem I am referring to the same package and
refdes=U2 for a second package, etc.  Can I also just add the schematic
drawings for the other devices into the .sym file so they all come up at
once?  For example, if I have a package with ten resistors in it can I just
set up the .sym file so that they all appear so I don't have to edit the
slot number on ten different resistor symbols?
Thanks!


On 12/16/10 7:31 PM, DJ Delorie d...@delorie.com wrote:

 
 Select one of them and do Edit-Slot.  Change the slot and the pin
 numbers will change too.
 
 
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Re: gEDA-user: Erroneous rats added to PCB

2010-12-16 Thread Peter Laurich
   Hi Peter and DJ,
   Sorry for being off-line for a while.
   Thanks very much for sorting this one out. I was going to fire up the
   debugger tomorrow to see if I could figure it out. Now I can go back to
   my layout task.
   Cheers,
   Peter
   On Fri, 2010-12-17 at 02:25 +, Peter Clifton wrote:

On Fri, 2010-12-17 at 01:10 +, Peter Clifton wrote:
 On Fri, 2010-12-17 at 00:42 +, Peter Clifton wrote:
  On Thu, 2010-12-16 at 16:09 -0500, Peter Laurich wrote:
  Has anyone else seen this problem?
  More importantly, any idea what I am doing incorrectly?
 
  No, and probably nothing...
 
  Any chance you could try a git checkout and test building PCB from that?

 Ignore that request.. it was _ME_ who was not up to date with git HEAD.
 The bug was introduced in a recent commit:

 dbf835c02cda1d16157a83f8c1b9b1da2a05400a


DJ and I just debugged this one over IRC, and came up with a fix. DJ
just pushed it, so you should be able to pick it up from git HEAD.

Thanks for the report!

Best wishes,


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Re: gEDA-user: Question about using slots in .sym files

2010-12-16 Thread DJ Delorie

Young, Michael I. (DFRC-SR) michael.i.yo...@nasa.gov writes:

 I guess I now use the same refdes (e.g., refdes=U1) on each one to
 tell gschem I am referring to the same package and refdes=U2 for a
 second package, etc.

Yes.  Symbols with the same refdes are the same component.

 Can I also just add the schematic drawings for the other devices into
 the .sym file so they all come up at once?

You won't be able to edit them separately if you do; you'd have ONE
symbol that just LOOKS like four, and you wouldn't be able to change the
slots indepednently.

 For example, if I have a package with ten resistors in it can I just
 set up the .sym file so that they all appear so I don't have to edit
 the slot number on ten different resistor symbols?

Sure, but that would be ONE symbol that happens to reflect all ten
resistors, not ten slotted symbols that happen to be in one file.


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Re: gEDA-user: get-package-attribute sometimes returns ? - ID: 3114991

2010-12-16 Thread clif
I'm not sure we're on the same page here. That pice of legacy code is what 
we want to remove. We don't want any code to reinterpret attributes. For 
the short term we would like to change a few probramatic symbols so we 
don't have to have special cases in the code.


Clif


Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 19:58:26 -0700
From: John Doty j...@noqsi.com
Subject: Re: gEDA-user: get-package-attribute sometimes returns ? -
  ID: 3114991

On Dec 16, 2010, at 7:44 PM, c...@eugeneweb.com wrote:


Hi John,

Did you see my initial post on this?


Yes.



The only pice of code that currently deals with the ? is this one:

;; sometimes get-package-attribute returns ? instead of unknown. 

WTF?  This should fix that . . .

 (if (string-ci=? model-file ?)
 (set! model-file unknown))
--

We're just trying to move toword a more uniform way of handling it.


But that's not uniform. In this case, attribute value is explicitly set 

to ? in the symbol. Now, when an attribute value is *$

John Doty  Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd.
http://www.noqsi.com/
j...@noqsi.com




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Re: gEDA-user: get-package-attribute sometimes returns ? - ID: 3114991

2010-12-16 Thread John Doty

On Dec 16, 2010, at 9:29 PM, c...@eugeneweb.com wrote:

 I'm not sure we're on the same page here. That pice of legacy code is what we 
 want to remove. We don't want any code to reinterpret attributes. For the 
 short term we would like to change a few probramatic symbols so we don't have 
 to have special cases in the code.

But the ? is there to tell you, when looking at the symbol in gschem, that 
you *need* to edit the attribute (I use those symbols a lot).

I'm puzzled here, because I thought Stuart was the author of both spice-sdb and 
the symbols in question, so the WTF? is strange.

In any case, it seems to me that the user should get an error message (from 
spice-sdb) in this case, as an explicit ? here means that the user has 
neither set the attribute to something useful nor deleted it as irrelevant.

John Doty  Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd.
http://www.noqsi.com/
j...@noqsi.com




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Re: gEDA-user: Erroneous rats added to PCB

2010-12-16 Thread Colin D Bennett
On Thu, 16 Dec 2010 23:54:12 -0800
Colin D Bennett co...@gibibit.com wrote:

 On Fri, 17 Dec 2010 00:40:50 +
 Peter Clifton pc...@cam.ac.uk wrote:
 
  On Thu, 2010-12-16 at 16:37 -0500, DJ Delorie wrote:
   Peter Laurich peter.laur...@akamina.com writes:
Has anyone else seen this problem?
   
   http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detailaid=3137324group_id=73743atid=538811
  
  Hmm, I can't reproduce that with git HEAD.. any ideas?
 
 From the bug page: 
 “Fixed in git commit 05bd7804fa66b65159959c25d126ff939146a1eb”
 
 Perhaps that is the reason?

OK, ignore that, I see later in the thread that you are all over the
problem along with DJ. :-)

Regards,
Colin


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