Re: gEDA-user: Broken TO92 footprint
> The TO92 package has well define pin numbers. The mapping from > transistor pins to footprint pins should happen in the schematic. Worse, the mapping from EBC to 123 is *different* for different transistors using the TO-92 case. Compare 2N3904 - E-B-C 2SC2631 - E-C-B ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Broken TO92 footprint
Vanessa Ezekowitz writes: > The TO92 footprint included with PCB does not work with the schematic > importer therein. Try to reference it and the importer complains > about missing pins, because it uses numbered pins instead of the B-C-E > lettering used in gschem's transistor symbols. The TO92 package has well define pin numbers. The mapping from transistor pins to footprint pins should happen in the schematic. -- Stephan ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Reinventing the wheel
Kai-Martin Knaak writes: > Stephan Boettcher wrote: >> My colleagues use eagle. I review their gerbers with gerbv. They >> envy my hierachical schematics and scripting fu, > > Funny. I got the impression, the scripting abilities of eagle are one > of the few things eagle really excels at. I've heard so, yes, one of our engineers does eagle scripting once in a while. But he had to learn how to script eagle. I did not learn any new language, I script in sed, awk, python, gnumeric. Both are good things. -- Stephan ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: An opportunity to fix the symbol library, (Was: Reinventing the wheel)
Kai-Martin Knaak, [snip] > The symbols in the current default lib fail for both. Why don't you use gedasymbols.org to show us how you would fix the current gEDA/gaf shipped symbol library. Create your ideal library, no limits, or restrictions. Also, feel free to use as much disk space on gedasymbols.org (I have explicit permission from DJ) as you need. Let people know it exists, use it, and comment on it. Then, we can compare your symbol library to the broken shipped symbol library and see if it makes sense to switch. Thanks, -Ales ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Expansion of the footprint definition
> Is the change so intrusive that half of the code base is affected? > Or is it the problem of breaking backward compatibility? Both of these. We'd need a file format change, editing code, display code, DRC changes, autorouter changes, optimizer changes, connectivity checks, buffer conversions, etc. It is generally agreed that, if we're going to do that much work anyway, it would be better to redesign the internals to have a concept of "sub-layout" and have elements just be a special case of those. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Expansion of the footprint definition
DJ Delorie wrote: >> I am sure there has been discussion around this in the past - but I >> am keen to know if there is any chance of PCBs understanding of what >> a footprint can contain being expanded in the near future? > > It's been discussed, but would be a major change. What is the blocking aspect? Is the change so intrusive that half of the code base is affected? Or is it the problem of breaking backward compatibility? Or something completely different? ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: pcb: mounting hole, copper diameter parameter?
On 5/19/2011 2:40 PM, Colin D Bennett wrote: I don't want any copper, so can I set "thickness" to 0? Or, should I set it to exactly the drill size? zero works. I have the 'hole' flag set so it won't be plated. Most board shops default to all holes plated and their process is set up for that. It is an added step to drill the hole out after plating. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Reinventing the wheel
Stephan Boettcher wrote: > Why do you have this notion of _right tool_? Because my job is at risk if I am notorious for using that odd piece of messy software nobody else can get results with. After all, I am supposed to help the colleagues solve their electronics problems... > My colleagues use eagle. I review their gerbers with gerbv. They > envy my hierachical schematics and scripting fu, Funny. I got the impression, the scripting abilities of eagle are one of the few things eagle really excels at. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB crash
On Thu, 19 May 2011 19:47:11 -0400 DJ Delorie wrote: > > > When I load the attached footprint to the buffer, and I say "Break > > buffer elements to pieces" PCB segfaults: > > I can't seem to reproduce this with git head, even with valgrind... Fixed by Peter Clifton. Regards, Colin ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Reinventing the wheel
Colin D Bennett wrote: > If you put default footprint attributes on the symbols, it is an > invitation to error. It's better to force the user to specify a > footprint for each component. If you want to force users, you can put in a footprint with an invalid value. No footprint attribute at all just heightens the barrier. Footprint attributes not only contain a value. They also contain placement information relative to the symbol. I am no fan of forcing users. But your argument does not convince me anyway. No default footprint value is an invitation to error, too. Newbies hardly know the difference of SO16 and SO14-wide. Default footprint attribute values should of course correspond to reasonable footprints in the default lib of PCB. So default will produce reasonable results that can be manufactured. If the user wanted SMD, he or she will notice during placement. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB crash
On Thu, 2011-05-19 at 19:47 -0400, DJ Delorie wrote: > > When I load the attached footprint to the buffer, and I say "Break > > buffer elements to pieces" PCB segfaults: > > I can't seem to reproduce this with git head, even with valgrind... Because I fixed it already ;) commit 7a09bb3ab5c20ba1e3f687145000c5f142ed2fa6 Author: Peter Clifton Date: Tue May 17 00:56:30 2011 +0100 buffer.c: Fix crash in SmashBufferElement The element is allocated with g_slice_new, so must be free'd with g_slice_free. Broken since commit 2ce35292b9e96da38cb56878005aba20891689eb: Convert board objects to GLists of g_slice allocated memory -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB crash
> When I load the attached footprint to the buffer, and I say "Break > buffer elements to pieces" PCB segfaults: I can't seem to reproduce this with git head, even with valgrind... ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Expansion of the footprint definition
> I am sure there has been discussion around this in the past - but I > am keen to know if there is any chance of PCBs understanding of what > a footprint can contain being expanded in the near future? It's been discussed, but would be a major change. Very desirable, though. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Expansion of the footprint definition
I am sure there has been discussion around this in the past - but I am keen to know if there is any chance of PCBs understanding of what a footprint can contain being expanded in the near future? Primarily just two things I would really like... text and polygons... Is this something that requires a major refactor - or is it something that someone who is new to the pcb source may have a chance of looking at? cheers, Geoff ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Reinventing the wheel
Andrew Poelstra wrote: > This already invalidates your point. The point is, that instances of the default library should be instantly usable for major use cases. And they should be good blueprints for the creation of the users own instances. The symbols in the current default lib fail for both. Most importantly, there is no footprint attribute. But there are more issues. Most of the symbols contain no license attributes, no description, no documentation, no symversion, no value. They are quite inconsistent. Some contain attributes geda won't recognize in a useful way (e.g. FND5148-1.sym features auth, date, fname and rev. The values of these attributes look like variables because they are terminated by $-characters.) There is even a symbol with no attribute at all. (input-orcad-1.sym). The recommended technique of split symbols is not to be found in the default lib. Instead, the three logic blocks of the 4000 are all contained in a single symbol. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Reinventing the wheel
We're going over old ground now... [1]http://www.delorie.com/pcb/component-dbs.html "First, in gschem/gattrib, the the GUI has a way of querying the database for potential values of attributes - such as choosing variants, picking parts from official part lists, sticking to on-hand inventory, etc." Agreed on both counts. Default footprints would be misleading - having some choice and an easy way to select seems the most logical compromise. I have a bunch of symbols I've created myself where I put a footprint attribute in but set it TBD - because I know that depending on project I'll be switching between through hole and SMT... References 1. http://www.delorie.com/pcb/component-dbs.html ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Broken TO92 footprint
On Thu, 19 May 2011 14:25:50 -0700 Colin D Bennett wrote: > On Thu, 19 May 2011 14:02:58 -0400 > Vanessa Ezekowitz wrote: > > > The discussion about "reinventing the wheel" reminded me: > > > > The TO92 footprint included with PCB does not work with the schematic > > importer therein. Try to reference it and the importer complains > > about missing pins, because it uses numbered pins instead of the > > B-C-E lettering used in gschem's transistor symbols. Copy and edit > > the footprint to use those letters and the importer complains about > > pin numbers ending in letters. > > Isn't a word of caution in order, since not all TO-92 transistors use > the same order of B/C/E pins? Or is the one you've provided the > standard now? Indeed you're right that caution is advised. The one I provided just duplicates the pin numbering/ordering found in the original footprint; the cheapest transistors these days seem to use exactly the opposite pinout. -- "There are some things in life worth obsessing over. Most things aren't, and when you learn that, life improves." http://digitalaudioconcepts.com Vanessa Ezekowitz ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: pcb bug: footprint reference point diamond drawn at wrong size
Fixed in bc21ef592fc14e7ca9d483892473a522ff645368 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: pcb: mounting hole, copper diameter parameter?
On Thu, 19 May 2011 17:43:49 -0400 DJ Delorie wrote: > > > I don't want any copper, so can I set "thickness" to 0? Or, should > > I set it to exactly the drill size? > > Hmmm... I don't think it matters, but a few seconds of experimentation > should tell you. I did experiment and found that the reference diamond went wacko when I went small... that concerned me that I was violating some internal constraint. Regards, Colin ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Reinventing the wheel
On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 6:45 AM, Stephan Boettcher wrote: > I still do not know where the pcb users manual is to be found. I found PCB home page (pcb.gpleda.org) top level link in navigation box on the left: "Manual". Choose your version. One could argue about how good or complete it is, but certainly not that it can't easily be found. Jared ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: pcb bug: footprint reference point diamond drawn at wrong size
The diamond that is displayed to indicate the reference point of each footprint is being drawn at the wrong size depending on the "copper diameter" of a pin in my footprint. Attached is a footprint that shows the problem. When you are dragging the footprint, the wireframe shows the diamond at a reasonable size. However, when not dragging, the diamond is very tiny and you have to zoom in a lot to see it at all. The diamond varies in size as I change the "copper diameter" in the footprint for the two pins (actually holes for plastic retention pegs). Set the copper diameter from 0.02mm to ~1.00mm and the diamond looks more reasonable. It occurs on PCB git HEAD and also on pcb+gl and pcb+gl_experimental. It also occurs with ./configure --disable-gl. Regards, Colin Tyco_1734035.fp Description: application/pcb-footprint ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: pcb: mounting hole, copper diameter parameter?
> I don't want any copper, so can I set "thickness" to 0? Or, should I > set it to exactly the drill size? Hmmm... I don't think it matters, but a few seconds of experimentation should tell you. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: pcb: mounting hole, copper diameter parameter?
I am making a footprint with two holes for plastic pegs (mechanical support). I am creating the footprint file in a text editor and was not sure to what value I should set the "thickness" (more precisely, "copper diameter"?) parameter in the Pin[] syntax. I don't want any copper, so can I set "thickness" to 0? Or, should I set it to exactly the drill size? I have the 'hole' flag set so it won't be plated. Regards, Colin ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Broken TO92 footprint
On Thu, 19 May 2011 14:02:58 -0400 Vanessa Ezekowitz wrote: > The discussion about "reinventing the wheel" reminded me: > > The TO92 footprint included with PCB does not work with the schematic > importer therein. Try to reference it and the importer complains > about missing pins, because it uses numbered pins instead of the > B-C-E lettering used in gschem's transistor symbols. Copy and edit > the footprint to use those letters and the importer complains about > pin numbers ending in letters. Isn't a word of caution in order, since not all TO-92 transistors use the same order of B/C/E pins? Or is the one you've provided the standard now? I think what is required are multiple TO-92 footprints, where the left/right/center pins have different "numbers". Then, depending on the exact transistor you are using on your board, you select the appropriate footprint for its pinout. Regards, Colin ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Reinventing the wheel
k...@aspodata.se (Karl Hammar) writes: > Stephan: > ... >> I still do not know where the pcb users manual is to be found. > ... > > You can find it in the git repo. as pcb/doc/pcb.pdf, > but you have to build it first. :-) -- Stephan ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Reinventing the wheel
Stephan: ... > I still do not know where the pcb users manual is to be found. ... You can find it in the git repo. as pcb/doc/pcb.pdf, but you have to build it first. Regards, /Karl Hammar --- Aspö Data Lilla Aspö 148 S-742 94 Östhammar Sweden +46 173 140 57 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Reinventing the wheel
> No, but what would be really cool is if gschem knew about PCB symbols > so that when you open the properties window, footprint is a dropdown > list of available PCB footprints. We're going over old ground now... http://www.delorie.com/pcb/component-dbs.html "First, in gschem/gattrib, the the GUI has a way of querying the database for potential values of attributes - such as choosing variants, picking parts from official part lists, sticking to on-hand inventory, etc." ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Reinventing the wheel
On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 10:27 AM, Stephan Boettcher wrote: > Kai-Martin Knaak writes: > >> Stephan Boettcher wrote: >> >>> The way to promote gedasymbols and to fix the default library is to >>> remove the default library, except for a small set of very generic >>> symbols. >> >> ack. >> This set of symbols should provide the ability to start working as is >> and generally be examples for complete working symbols. That is, they >> should contain footprint attributes. And when applicable simulation >> attributes, too. HOWTOs and manuals may refer to these items. > > nack. There is no way for a footprint attribute to be generic. > > These symbols shall exactly not be examples, and exactly not just work. > > They shall be symbols that can be use as they are for any workflow, by > adding the required attributes after instantiation, or by editing a copy > in a project lib, i.e., the first easy steps in learning symbol editing. > No, but what would be really cool is if gschem knew about PCB symbols so that when you open the properties window, footprint is a dropdown list of available PCB footprints. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Reinventing the wheel
On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 02:12:06PM -0400, Vanessa Ezekowitz wrote: > On Thu, 19 May 2011 08:36:50 -0600 > John Doty wrote: > > > On May 19, 2011, at 8:21 AM, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: > > > > > Vanessa Ezekowitz wrote: > > > > > >> KMK didn't say what he means by "unusable", > > > > > > Most immediately: The symbols in the default lib do not contain footprint > > > attributes. Not even an empty ones. This prevents them to "just-work" for > > > the most common work-flow of geda: gschem -> gnetlist -> pcb -> gerbv > > > > What's the footprint for a transistor? A resistor? A 7400? All of these > > come in many packages and many also expect a 1:1 mapping from package to > > footprint, but that isn't how it works. > > But that *is* how it works - to a new user or a seasoned user, ultimately > footprint = package. We've had this discussion before, and the answer is > clear: > > Choose some reasonable defaults that will work for the majority of use cases. > Through hole or large gauge SMT unless there is no other option, and using > the most commonly available parts. > > If a person instantiates a transistor, give it a TO92-3 footprint (though I > prefer TO-18 for its retro look). > > Resistors? I use a footprint I created that fits 1/8 and 1/4W and folds the > resistor in half to save board space. > This already invalidates your point. Many hobbyist users don't care about TO resistor footprints, since you can fit the leads into pretty well any hole spacing. Me, I use 0805's since I have a lot of those. I have a friend who always uses 0603's for the same reason. Sometimes the I use massive SMT footprints or weird TO spacing to fit a lot of traces under the part. The moral is that defaults cannot make sense for even the simplest of parts. Capacitors are much worse, transistors worse still. All this without even considering paste width, etc. -- Andrew Poelstra Email: asp11 at sfu.ca OR apoelstra at wpsoftware.net Web: http://www.wpsoftware.net/andrew/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Reinventing the wheel
On Thu, 19 May 2011 08:36:50 -0600 John Doty wrote: > > On May 19, 2011, at 8:21 AM, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: > > > Vanessa Ezekowitz wrote: > > > >> KMK didn't say what he means by "unusable", > > > > Most immediately: The symbols in the default lib do not contain footprint > > attributes. Not even an empty ones. This prevents them to "just-work" for > > the most common work-flow of geda: gschem -> gnetlist -> pcb -> gerbv > > What's the footprint for a transistor? A resistor? A 7400? All of these > come in many packages and many also expect a 1:1 mapping from package to > footprint, but that isn't how it works. But that *is* how it works - to a new user or a seasoned user, ultimately footprint = package. We've had this discussion before, and the answer is clear: Choose some reasonable defaults that will work for the majority of use cases. Through hole or large gauge SMT unless there is no other option, and using the most commonly available parts. If a person instantiates a transistor, give it a TO92-3 footprint (though I prefer TO-18 for its retro look). Resistors? I use a footprint I created that fits 1/8 and 1/4W and folds the resistor in half to save board space. Resistor packs? Use whatever SIPx footprint fits the part. Signal diodes like a 1N914? Same footprint (just tweak the drill diameter for thick-leaded parts like 1N4001) Capacitors? I use one I made with 200 mil lead spacing and about 50 mil width for ceramics, and the default ACY100 for electrolytics. ICs? Use an SOIC footprint unless the part only comes in some other form. IC sockets? Obvious - use a DIP footprint. The above probably covers 90% of use-cases, and besides, the user probably needs to be able to hand-assemble their creations initially (prototypes before a production run), and you can't do that if the initial board is covered in 0603, TSSOP, BGA, and similar parts, and/or parts of any kind that have to be bought at some only-sells-1000-at-a-time distributor. > > ack. > > The historically grown structure is less than stellar. And the scope needs > > to be reduced to what can sensibly be delivered. The libs should not > > suggest completeness where thay can only provide a (good) starting point. > > It isn't so much the libs, as the lib browser, which sends the selected > part straight to the schematic, thus giving the user the false impression > that they're finished with it. What's needed here is a minimal attribute editor right in the library browser window. Click a symbol, and the bottom of the window expands to show the most important attributes of the symbol: refdes, footprint, slot# if applicable. Click again in the schematic window and the symbol is placed with whatever attributes have been set. -- "There are some things in life worth obsessing over. Most things aren't, and when you learn that, life improves." http://digitalaudioconcepts.com Vanessa Ezekowitz ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Broken TO92 footprint
The discussion about "reinventing the wheel" reminded me: The TO92 footprint included with PCB does not work with the schematic importer therein. Try to reference it and the importer complains about missing pins, because it uses numbered pins instead of the B-C-E lettering used in gschem's transistor symbols. Copy and edit the footprint to use those letters and the importer complains about pin numbers ending in letters. I guess it's because the existing footprint uses an older file format, so I've created a direct replacement, attached here. -- "There are some things in life worth obsessing over. Most things aren't, and when you learn that, life improves." http://digitalaudioconcepts.com Vanessa Ezekowitz Transistor_TO-92.fp Description: application/pcb-footprint ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Reinventing the wheel
On Thu, 19 May 2011 16:21:31 +0200 Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: > Vanessa Ezekowitz wrote: > > > KMK didn't say what he means by "unusable", > > Most immediately: The symbols in the default lib do not contain > footprint attributes. Not even an empty ones. This prevents them to > "just-work" for the most common work-flow of geda: gschem -> gnetlist > -> pcb -> gerbv If you put default footprint attributes on the symbols, it is an invitation to error. It's better to force the user to specify a footprint for each component. If it seems like extra work for a user to assign footprints, consider that the user had better be reviewing each and every component's footprint in the schematic anyway... though you know you'll forget to check one component for which the default package is wrong. Ideally, footprint assignment would be easy and convenient, however. This could be improved by providing a footprint browser in gschem to quickly locate the right symbol name. Regards, Colin ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Reinventing the wheel
On Thu, 19 May 2011 15:57:12 +0200
Kai-Martin Knaak wrote:
> Stephan Boettcher wrote:
>
> > The way to promote gedasymbols and to fix the default library is to
> > remove the default library, except for a small set of very generic
> > symbols.
>
> ack.
> This set of symbols should provide the ability to start working as is
> and generally be examples for complete working symbols. That is, they
> should contain footprint attributes.
Not to get into the whole light/heavy symbol debate, but since we're
talking about making this uniform, simpler, and easier for new users, I
think there would be less opportunity for error if symbols did not
include a footprint attribute, UNLESS there is only one footprint
possible. For instance, what footprint does a resistor symbol use?
Or, what footprint does an SPDT switch use? A battery? A transistor
(and of course many logical-physical pin mappings for transistors!).
Speaking of transistors, this brings to mind the mapping of schematic
pins to PCB footprint pins. Because I don't want to create a different
PNP, NPN, N-MOSFET, P-MOSFET, etc. symbol for each package pinout, I
use logical pin names ("numbers") in my symbols:
G, D, S (gate, drain, source) for MOSFET
B, C, E (base, collector, emitter) for BJT
P, N (P-doped and N-doped terminal) for all types of diode incl. LED
--> anode and cathode are less appropriate because they refer to
actual current flow (which may be reverse biased, esp. for
zener)
The I have corresponding footprints such as
SOT23__MOSFET_1G_2S_3D - MOSFET in SOT-23 package with gate on pin
1, source on pin 2, and drain on pin 3.
The result is that you need fewer variants of symbols and there is less
of the "magic" pin 1 = +, pin 2 = - assumption between symbols and
footprints on these generic parts, where pin numbering is not
standardized. It is much harder to make a footprint-symbol pin
mapping error since there is a single logical-physical mapping that
takes place in just one step (selecting the footprint).
If you think that the current gschem library's polarized capacitor and
diodes are sufficient, consider that gschem's “led-3.sym” has the
opposite polarity (pin 1 is negative terminal) of led-1.sym and
led-2.sym!! The casual user is very likely to overlook this. Even if
the pin numbers were shown, "pin 1" has no meaning for an LED, in
contrast to an IC package.
Regards,
Colin
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gEDA-user: IBIS to SPICE conversion work
I'm currently working on simulating IBIS models in ngspice. Its a work in progress, but I have something that is at least somewhat usable at this point. I put my current work on gEDA symbols: http://www.gedasymbols.org/user/russell_dill/ I'll be doing more testing and refinement, and most importantly adding at least some support for package models (parasitics) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Reinventing the wheel
Kai-Martin Knaak writes: > Stephan Boettcher wrote: > >> The way to promote gedasymbols and to fix the default library is to >> remove the default library, except for a small set of very generic >> symbols. > > ack. > This set of symbols should provide the ability to start working as is > and generally be examples for complete working symbols. That is, they > should contain footprint attributes. And when applicable simulation > attributes, too. HOWTOs and manuals may refer to these items. nack. There is no way for a footprint attribute to be generic. These symbols shall exactly not be examples, and exactly not just work. They shall be symbols that can be use as they are for any workflow, by adding the required attributes after instantiation, or by editing a copy in a project lib, i.e., the first easy steps in learning symbol editing. -- Stephan ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB crash on rotating polygons in buffer
On Thu, 2011-05-19 at 14:26 +0200, Gabriel Paubert wrote: > > In the meantime, I have a 100% reproducible bug with the following > > backtrace: > > > > Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault. > > r_delete_entry (rtree=0x0, box=0x7d8c60) at rtree.c:1101 > > 1101 r = __r_delete (rtree->root, box); Now fixed with this commit: commit c12cc6f769b5ccc603a75361fae3adc930934506 Author: Peter Clifton Date: Thu May 19 18:13:43 2011 +0100 buffer.c: Update polygon r-tree when adding a polygon to the buffer. This resulted in a crash when rotating a buffer containing a polygon, as the polygon r-tree associated with the buffer was NULL despite the polygon count being non-zero. Reported-by: Gabriel Paubert -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB crash on rotating polygons in buffer
On Thu, 2011-05-19 at 14:26 +0200, Gabriel Paubert wrote: > I forgot to mention that this is a regression, it does not happen on another > machine > on which I have a binary compiled on April 26th. I'm quite surprised, because it looks like a long standing bug to me - dating back to very early (~2006). -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Reinventing the wheel
On May 19, 2011, at 8:21 AM, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: > Vanessa Ezekowitz wrote: > >> KMK didn't say what he means by "unusable", > > Most immediately: The symbols in the default lib do not contain footprint > attributes. Not even an empty ones. This prevents them to "just-work" for > the most common work-flow of geda: gschem -> gnetlist -> pcb -> gerbv What's the footprint for a transistor? A resistor? A 7400? All of these come in many packages and many also expect a 1:1 mapping from package to footprint, but that isn't how it works. > > >> The first thing that comes to mind is that, for both Gschem and PCB, >> the libraries need recategorized. > > ack. > The historically grown structure is less than stellar. And the scope needs > to be reduced to what can sensibly be delivered. The libs should not suggest > completeness where thay can only provide a (good) starting point. It isn't so much the libs, as the lib browser, which sends the selected part straight to the schematic, thus giving the user the false impression that they're finished with it. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Reinventing the wheel
On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 04:25:40AM +0200, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: > Stefan Salewski wrote: > > > While gEDA/PCB has some serious > > users and a large list of projects done with gEDA, KiCAD users seems to > > be more childreen type, making boards with a power LED and a led driver > > chip... > > kicad is the EDA chosen by some high profile open hardware projects: > * reprap (http://reprap.org/wiki/KiCad) > * micropendous (http://code.google.com/p/micropendous/) > * nanonote (http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Main_Page ) Thanks for the links. I never noticed that reprap and nanonote were KiCad, and I never heard of micropendous before (and it looks useful). ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Reinventing the wheel
Vanessa Ezekowitz wrote: > KMK didn't say what he means by "unusable", Most immediately: The symbols in the default lib do not contain footprint attributes. Not even an empty ones. This prevents them to "just-work" for the most common work-flow of geda: gschem -> gnetlist -> pcb -> gerbv > The first thing that comes to mind is that, for both Gschem and PCB, > the libraries need recategorized. ack. The historically grown structure is less than stellar. And the scope needs to be reduced to what can sensibly be delivered. The libs should not suggest completeness where thay can only provide a (good) starting point. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de GPG key:http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?search=Knaak+kmk&op=get ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Reinventing the wheel
Stephan Boettcher wrote: > The way to promote gedasymbols and to fix the default library is to > remove the default library, except for a small set of very generic > symbols. ack. This set of symbols should provide the ability to start working as is and generally be examples for complete working symbols. That is, they should contain footprint attributes. And when applicable simulation attributes, too. HOWTOs and manuals may refer to these items. In addition, there should be a discoverable mechanism to exclusively use a specific set of libs. Currently gschem and gnetlist use a multiple fall-back strategy to find actual instances of footprints and symbols. This is the kind of automatism that introduces nasty design failures. It makes the user feel less in control and uneasy. The cvs way to mirror the contents of gedasymbols.org on the local hard disk should be installed by default. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de GPG key:http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?search=Knaak+kmk&op=get ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Reinventing the wheel
John Doty writes: > So, is it really that bad? In the end, when you really need to look something up, giyf, it is all there. But terribly disorganised. For most things that may need looking up I am completely unaware that they even exist. As I said eleswhere, the first thing I tend to read is some kind of reference manual. Those things are typically not very verbose and give me a complete overview what the program, API, language, library can do for me. I could not point to such documents for gaf or PCB. I still do not know where the pcb users manual is to be found. I found it several times in the past after some googling, and after I read it, I still have no idea what the possibilities are on the pcb actions command line, because it appears to be incomplete both in coverage of the actions as well as the parameters for the actions. This is not a complaint, since I get along with what I know. I may just miss out on a lot of nice features that I do not know about. What I did find early (and enjoyed a lot) was the file formats documentation. -- Stephan ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB crash on rotating polygons in buffer
On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 02:23:10PM +0200, Gabriel Paubert wrote: > On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 11:48:47AM +0100, Peter Clifton wrote: > > On Tue, 2011-05-17 at 10:11 +0200, Gabriel Paubert wrote: > > > > > I'm sure other languages use even more modifiers, but could > > > someone apply the following patch: > > > > > > Committed, thanks! I made the equivalent change to the GTK HID whilst I > > was at it, and wrote a commit message for you. > > Thank you for committing. Maybe my memory is failing, but I don't > remember seeing the message when using the gtk gui (which I sometimes > do). Anyway it can't hurt gtk users, and it was really annoying to > see the message log window pop up when I typed the AltGr key for the > first time after starting PCB. > > > > > I look forward to reviewing any more patches you have for gEDA and PCB. > > I might prepare a less trivial patch over the week-end since > the weather forecast is not good here for working on a swimming pool. > But it first needs careful testing. > > In the meantime, I have a 100% reproducible bug with the following > backtrace: > > Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault. > r_delete_entry (rtree=0x0, box=0x7d8c60) at rtree.c:1101 > 1101r = __r_delete (rtree->root, box); > (gdb) info stack > #0 r_delete_entry (rtree=0x0, box=0x7d8c60) at rtree.c:1101 > #1 0x00433040 in RotateBuffer (Buffer=0x752960, Number= optimized out>) at buffer.c:1216 > #2 0x0041fd1a in ActionPasteBuffer (argc=2, argv=0xa5e970, x= optimized out>, y=) at action.c:6076 > #3 0x0049158f in hid_actionv (name=, argc=2, > argv=0xa5e970) at hid/common/actions.c:246 > #4 0x00491978 in hid_parse_actionstring (rstr=, > require_parens=) at hid/common/actions.c:330 > #5 0x004b67cb in lesstif_key_event (e=0x7fffdff0) at > hid/lesstif/menu.c:1211 > #6 0x004af635 in work_area_input (w=0xa0dee0, v= out>, e=0x7fffdff0, ctd=) at hid/lesstif/main.c:1345 > #7 0x773e7d9a in XtDispatchEventToWidget () from /usr/lib/libXt.so.6 > #8 0x773e8577 in ?? () from /usr/lib/libXt.so.6 > #9 0x773e7561 in XtDispatchEvent () from /usr/lib/libXt.so.6 > #10 0x773e76f3 in XtAppMainLoop () from /usr/lib/libXt.so.6 > #11 0x004b085a in lesstif_do_export (options=) > at hid/lesstif/main.c:1931 > #12 0x0045c9ff in main (argc=2, argv=0x7fffe398) at main.c:1097 > > which happens when rotating a buffer which contains a single polygon (or a > combination > of tracks and polygons). > > Simply take the attached PCB file, select the polygon, cut it (Ctrl-X) > and rotate the buffer (Shift-F7). Instant-crash (TM) :-) I forgot to mention that this is a regression, it does not happen on another machine on which I have a binary compiled on April 26th. Oh, and I see that I have left the netlist in the PCB file. But I suspect that thos os irrelevant. Bonus point to the person who guesses what this circuit is supposed to do ;-) Gabriel ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: PCB crash on rotating polygons in buffer
On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 11:48:47AM +0100, Peter Clifton wrote:
> On Tue, 2011-05-17 at 10:11 +0200, Gabriel Paubert wrote:
>
> > I'm sure other languages use even more modifiers, but could
> > someone apply the following patch:
>
>
> Committed, thanks! I made the equivalent change to the GTK HID whilst I
> was at it, and wrote a commit message for you.
Thank you for committing. Maybe my memory is failing, but I don't
remember seeing the message when using the gtk gui (which I sometimes
do). Anyway it can't hurt gtk users, and it was really annoying to
see the message log window pop up when I typed the AltGr key for the
first time after starting PCB.
>
> I look forward to reviewing any more patches you have for gEDA and PCB.
I might prepare a less trivial patch over the week-end since
the weather forecast is not good here for working on a swimming pool.
But it first needs careful testing.
In the meantime, I have a 100% reproducible bug with the following
backtrace:
Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
r_delete_entry (rtree=0x0, box=0x7d8c60) at rtree.c:1101
1101 r = __r_delete (rtree->root, box);
(gdb) info stack
#0 r_delete_entry (rtree=0x0, box=0x7d8c60) at rtree.c:1101
#1 0x00433040 in RotateBuffer (Buffer=0x752960, Number=) at buffer.c:1216
#2 0x0041fd1a in ActionPasteBuffer (argc=2, argv=0xa5e970, x=, y=) at action.c:6076
#3 0x0049158f in hid_actionv (name=, argc=2,
argv=0xa5e970) at hid/common/actions.c:246
#4 0x00491978 in hid_parse_actionstring (rstr=,
require_parens=) at hid/common/actions.c:330
#5 0x004b67cb in lesstif_key_event (e=0x7fffdff0) at
hid/lesstif/menu.c:1211
#6 0x004af635 in work_area_input (w=0xa0dee0, v=,
e=0x7fffdff0, ctd=) at hid/lesstif/main.c:1345
#7 0x773e7d9a in XtDispatchEventToWidget () from /usr/lib/libXt.so.6
#8 0x773e8577 in ?? () from /usr/lib/libXt.so.6
#9 0x773e7561 in XtDispatchEvent () from /usr/lib/libXt.so.6
#10 0x773e76f3 in XtAppMainLoop () from /usr/lib/libXt.so.6
#11 0x004b085a in lesstif_do_export (options=) at
hid/lesstif/main.c:1931
#12 0x0045c9ff in main (argc=2, argv=0x7fffe398) at main.c:1097
which happens when rotating a buffer which contains a single polygon (or a
combination
of tracks and polygons).
Simply take the attached PCB file, select the polygon, cut it (Ctrl-X)
and rotate the buffer (Shift-F7). Instant-crash (TM) :-)
Gabriel
# release: pcb 1.99z
# To read pcb files, the pcb version (or the git source date) must be >= the
file version
FileVersion[20070407]
PCB["tdmtnr" 12 12]
Grid[2500.00 0 0 1]
Cursor[62500 37500 -2.899683]
PolyArea[2.00]
Thermal[0.50]
DRC[699 400 800 800 1500 800]
Flags("nameonpcb,swapstartdir,clearnew,snappin")
Groups("1,c:2,s:3:4:5:6:7:8")
Styles["Signal,2000,3600,2000,1000:Power,2500,6000,3500,1000:Fat,4000,6000,3500,1000:Skinny,600,2402,1181,600"]
Symbol(' ' 18)
(
)
Symbol('!' 12)
(
SymbolLine(0 45 0 50 8)
SymbolLine(0 10 0 35 8)
)
Symbol('"' 12)
(
SymbolLine(0 10 0 20 8)
SymbolLine(10 10 10 20 8)
)
Symbol('#' 12)
(
SymbolLine(0 35 20 35 8)
SymbolLine(0 25 20 25 8)
SymbolLine(15 20 15 40 8)
SymbolLine(5 20 5 40 8)
)
Symbol('$' 12)
(
SymbolLine(15 15 20 20 8)
SymbolLine(5 15 15 15 8)
SymbolLine(0 20 5 15 8)
SymbolLine(0 20 0 25 8)
SymbolLine(0 25 5 30 8)
SymbolLine(5 30 15 30 8)
SymbolLine(15 30 20 35 8)
SymbolLine(20 35 20 40 8)
SymbolLine(15 45 20 40 8)
SymbolLine(5 45 15 45 8)
SymbolLine(0 40 5 45 8)
SymbolLine(10 10 10 50 8)
)
Symbol('%' 12)
(
SymbolLine(0 15 0 20 8)
SymbolLine(0 15 5 10 8)
SymbolLine(5 10 10 10 8)
SymbolLine(10 10 15 15 8)
SymbolLine(15 15 15 20 8)
SymbolLine(10 25 15 20 8)
SymbolLine(5 25 10 25 8)
SymbolLine(0 20 5 25 8)
SymbolLine(0 50 40 10 8)
SymbolLine(35 50 40 45 8)
SymbolLine(40 40 40 45 8)
SymbolLine(35 35 40 40 8)
SymbolLine(30 35 35 35 8)
SymbolLine(25 40 30 35 8)
SymbolLine(25 40 25 45 8)
SymbolLine(25 45 30 50 8)
SymbolLine(30 50 35 50 8)
)
Symbol('&' 12)
(
SymbolLine(0 45 5 50 8)
SymbolLine(0 15 0 25 8)
SymbolLine(0 15 5 10 8)
SymbolLine(0 35 15 20 8)
SymbolLine(5 50 10 50 8)
SymbolLine(10 50 20 40 8)
SymbolLine(0 25 25 50 8)
SymbolLine(5 10 10 10 8)
SymbolLine(10 10 15 15 8)
SymbolLine(15 15 15 20 8)
SymbolLine(0 35 0 45 8)
)
Symbol(''' 12)
(
SymbolLine(0 20 10 10 8)
)
Symbol('(' 12)
(
SymbolLine(0 45 5 50 8)
SymbolLine(0 15 5 10 8)
SymbolLine(0 15 0 45 8)
)
Symbol(')' 12)
(
SymbolLine(0 10 5 15 8)
SymbolLine(5 15 5 45 8)
SymbolLine(0 50 5 45 8)
)
Symbol('*
Re: gEDA-user: BUG: gaf hierarchy problems with old backup files
Stephan Boettcher wrote: > There where backup~ and #autosave# files left in the direcory for the > .sch file that were moved. After removing the backup~ and #autosave# > files of the moved files everything works as expected. Ouch. Did you file a bug report? ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de GPG key:http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?search=Knaak+kmk&op=get ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Reinventing the wheel
On May 19, 2011, at 4:26 AM, Stephan Boettcher wrote:
>> I referred to the lack of documentation, rather than lack of comments.
>> The particular case I had in mind, is the interaction of gnetlist's
>> C front-end with the scheme back-ends. There seems to be no documentation
>> whatsoever, what data structure the front-end should use to communicate
>> with the back-end.
>
> Ok, yes, that is a valid point... the lack of documented APIs.
Here's a start, posted once before.
gnetlist:get-packages level
Yields a list of refdes values for the set of schematics. Duplicated values are
only listed once. The "level" argument must be present, but is unused.
gnetlist:get-non-unique-packages level
Yields a list of refdes values for the set of schematics. Duplicated values are
listed as many times as they appear. The "level" argument must be present, but
is unused.
gnetlist:get-pins refdes
Yields a list of pin numbers for the specified refdes value.
gnetlist:get-all-nets level
Yields a list of net names for the set of schematics. Duplicated values are
listed as many times as they appear (once per segment?). The "level" argument
must be present, but is unused.
gnetlist:get-all-unique-nets level
Yields a list of net names for the set of schematics. Duplicated values are
only listed once. The "level" argument must be present, but is unused.
gnetlist:get-all-connections net
Yields a list of all connections to the named net. Each element of the list is
itself a two element list of the form (refdes pinnumber).
gnetlist:get-nets refdes pin
This is apparently intended to yield the netname connected to the given pin
along with all pins connected to that net, including the pin in the initial
query. A little experimentation, however, shows that it does not reliably list
all of the connections, possibly due to a problem with net= connections. Most
(all?) existing back ends that use this appear to use only the netname.
gnetlist:get-pins-nets refdes
Yields a list of (pinnumber . netname) pairs detailing all connections for the
given refdes.
gnetlist:get-package-attribute refdes attribute
Yields the value of the named attribute attached to a symbol instance with the
given refdes. Yields "unknown" if the attribute is absent. It only yields one
value, regardless of how many matching attributes exist in the set of
schematics. If there is more than one instance only the first instance
encountered is inspected, so it may yield "unknown, even if a matching
attribute is present.
gnetlist:get-toplevel-attribute attribute
Yields the value of the named attribute at top level, that is, an attribute
present in one of the schematics unattached to any object. Yields "not found"
if no matching attribute is present.
gnetlist:get-renamed-nets level
When gnetlist expands a hierarchical subcircuit, it first assigns every net
within the subcircuit a unique name based on the refdes of the subcircuit
instance and, if present, the netname within the subcircuit. If a net is
attached to the higher level circuit, gnetlist then changes the name of the
subcircuit net to the name of the higher level net to which it is attached.
"gnetlist:get-renamed-nets" returns a list of lists of pairs of names. The
first name in a pair is the initial unique netname within the subcircuit, the
second is the higher level netname it has acquired. The "level" argument must
be present, but is unused.
gnetlist:get-attribute-by-pinseq refdes pinseq attribute
Yields the value of the named attribute attached to the pin with the named
pinseq attribute to the package with the named refdes attribute.
gnetlist:get-attribute-by-pinnumber refdes pinnumber attribute
Yields the value of the named attribute attached to the pin with the named
pinnumber attribute to the package with the named refdes attribute.
gnetlist:vams-get-package-attributes refdes
Yields a list of the names of attributes attached to the symbol at schematic
level?
gnetlist:get-slots refdes
Yields a list of all slot attributes associated with a given refdes. Duplicated
values are listed as many times as they appear.
gnetlist:get-unique-slots refdes
Yields a list of all slot attributes associated with a given refdes. Duplicated
values are listed only once.
gnetlist:graphical-objs-in-net-with-attrib-get-attrib netname attrstring
attribute
This searches for a graphical symbol attached to a net with the given netname.
The symbol must have attrstring (of the form name=value) attached. It yields
the value of the specified attribute,
gnetlist:get-calling-flags
Yields a list of lists of command line flags and values. Each flag must be
known to the gnetlist front end. For example, the "--nomunge" flag will yield
("nomunge_mode" #t).
gnetlist:get-command-line
Broken or unimplemented? Yields #f.
Higher level functions built atop these are in:
wherever/share/gEDA/scheme/gnetlist.scm
wherever/share/gEDA/scheme/gnetlist-post.scm
These are fairly comprehen
Re: gEDA-user: Reinventing the wheel
Geoff Swan writes: >> >> > > Examples >> > > are the next to unusable default library of geda >> > >> > As has been discussed many times, this cannot be fixed, since there is no >> > narrow, common use case for gEDA. It can be fixed, ... > Actually I think gEDA is not too bad for components/symbols really. What the > default library lacks, gedsymbols often has. With a little bit more > promotion of gedasymbols I think people wouldn't have such an issue. The way to promote gedasymbols and to fix the default library is to remove the default library, except for a small set of very generic symbols. I do use some symbols from the defaul library, generic resistors, capacitors, transistors, switches, but nothing else. Basically only the very generic drawings. The first thing a new user shall (have to) learn is making symbols, and (for a pcb workflow) footprints, or (for a simulation workflow) models, because, as John said, it cannot be done right for everybody, so we shall not try, and if it were possible, nobody wants to to the work anyway. -- Stephan ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Reinventing the wheel
Kai-Martin Knaak writes: > Stephan Boettcher wrote: > >> Why is there so much discussion here about the needs of potential new >> users, instead of the needs of current, loving, existing users? Let's >> make the tools perfect for us (that includes discoverability and >> documentation improvements), and not cater for not-yet-users. > > In my case, this is essentially the same. If students find geda more > difficult and less attractive than eagle, I have a hard time to convince > them to use the right tool. Why do you have this notion of _right tool_? Let them use what they want. My colleagues use eagle. I review their gerbers with gerbv. They envy my hierachical schematics and scripting fu, but still, they are happy. All I say is: look if you want help from me with these things, use gEAD, else, do it yourself. >> In the end, the development caters the needs of whoever is doing the >> development, > > and whose contributions get accepted. There is a heap of 45 patches for > pcb and 20 patches for geda rotting on launchpad. just what I said see below ... >> That brings me to another point: I somehow feel a barrier of entry for >> contributing code to gEDA/PCB, more than with other projects. This is a >> combination of a lot of little details which have been discussed before. > > ack. > It starts with a developer mailing list that is closed to mortal users but > discusses issues which affect said users. The wiki only features edit buttons > on application. That are two of those little details, major ones. -- Stephan ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Reinventing the wheel
Kai-Martin Knaak writes: > Stephan Boettcher wrote: > >> Judging the >> code by lack of comments without knowledge of the language is too. > > I referred to the lack of documentation, rather than lack of comments. > The particular case I had in mind, is the interaction of gnetlist's > C front-end with the scheme back-ends. There seems to be no documentation > whatsoever, what data structure the front-end should use to communicate > with the back-end. Ok, yes, that is a valid point... the lack of documented APIs. -- Stephan ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: GL on non-accelerated hardware?
On Thu, 2011-05-19 at 02:56 +0200, Levente Kovacs wrote: > On Mon, 16 May 2011 10:17:34 +0100 > Peter Clifton wrote: > > > Anyway, it would be worth testing to check > > I tested it on my notebook. It has an Atom CPU with an intel GPU. > > With the GL renderer it can do 7fps. What GPU is it.. most Intel GPUs have a working 3D driver. Poulsbo might not, as it is a PowerVR core - not Intel. -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
