Re: gEDA-user: windows and opengl
On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 5:05 PM, Kai-Martin Knaak k...@familieknaak.de wrote: provides accelerated drivers for windows. Wouldn't openGL just work in such an environment? GLEW is typically used: http://glew.sourceforge.net/ You can find an example of its usage in the Toped project: http://toped.org.uk/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: help with pcb dsn plugin
Can the style conventions be found anywhere in a halfway comprehensive written form? http://astyle.sourceforge.net/ Better would be to write a AStyle configuration file, that matches the standard style of the code, that could then be applied to the code so all of it is completely self-consistent. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: windows testers wanted
On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 3:13 PM, DJ Delorie d...@delorie.com wrote: We're trying to track down the zoom bug. If you have access to a windows machine, please try this PCB snapshot: ftp://ftp.delorie.com/pub/geda-windows/snapshots/pcb-20110915-dj.exe The key thing we're trying to find out is if the zoom bug is XP-specific and/or hardware-specific. Please try zooming and report back: * Version of Windows (xp, vista, 7; 32 vs 64 bit) and mouse type XP SP2 x32. Microsoft mouse with scrool wheel, and IBM TrackPoint keyboard with pad/point. Using tut1.pcb from the installed snap shot. * Whether Z/z keys work Yes. and if you have to first click in the work area to get them to work No. * Whether your mouse scroll wheel zooms (if you have a real scroll wheel) Worked. * If zoom/pan bars on your trackpad work (and if it's synaptics - we know that's broken) I can pan. Can't seem to do any zooming from the pad. * If zooming doesn't work, can you still zoom in via the menu (remember to click on the pcb after choosing this) and pan with the scrollbars? Did not notice any issues. Will try Win7 and XP SP3 when I get home. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: windows testers wanted
Did not notice any issues. Will try Win7 and XP SP3 when I get home. XP SP3 x32 under VirtualBox, and Win7 SP1 x64 on Toshiba Laptop, worked fine. All of my boxes are using the native English language settings. I have seen odd keyboard things happen with non-English keyboards. Any possibilities there? Usually it is not with the letters, but some of the lessor used keys. -- http://blog.softwaresafety.net/ http://www.designer-iii.com/ http://www.wearablesmartsensors.com/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: windows testers wanted
On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 8:01 PM, Hannu Vuolasaho vuo...@msn.com wrote: Installer is 20110915-dj but I don't understand the differences in results. Under your control-panel what is Regions/Languages set for? ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: cygwin geda tools
I want to recommend gEDA to colleagues and online contacts, but unless I can point them to a one-click Windows download, gEDA won't be considered -- it'll surely be KiCad or (grimace) EAGLE. You didn't notice my posting last week about my nightly geda-for-windows builds? Or that a big part of the upcoming pcb release is a windows installer? Sigh. http://www.delorie.com/pcb/geda-windows/ Unless something has change that I'm unaware of, the Windows build of PCB does not print at all (you have to export PostScript to the Windows GhostScript) nor does it handle the library paths correctly. So I'd not jump up and down just yet comparing this current package to KiCAD or EAGLE to work on Windows. I'll get you the 1.7.x build when I get home to add to the 1.6.x. releases. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: cygwin geda tools
nor does it handle the library paths correctly. Seems to work OK for me. I just downloaded the 20110913 snap shot. Fired up PCB. First thing I got was: Windows cannot open this file: ListLibraryContents.sh. Hardly the glowing introduction to a good Windows port. 'Cancel' that then go to File - Preferences - Library - Add a library path then Restart program for changes to take effect. Sorry, but I don't consider either of those to be working. Yes, the library is added after the restart, but no normal Windows user is going to consider that to be a proper method to use a program. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: cygwin geda tools
On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 7:55 PM, DJ Delorie d...@delorie.com wrote: First thing I got was: I meant, if you open the library window, Aren't those two different issues? File - Preferences - Library - Add a library path then Restart program for changes to take effect. This is how it works in Linux too, though. Where in non-Windows systems, perhaps, that is an expected work flow, tho I do not recall any other program doing that. In Windows there is nothing good that can be said about such behavior, it is simply wrong. Before a Windows Port takes up a prominent spot on any gEDA et.al. Home Page these are the issue I know that need to be fixed: 1: No complaints about missing .sh at start up. Only worse First Impression we could have there would be a segment fault. 2: No restarts, for any reason. 3: Printing needs work (I've looked at this a couple of times, and each time I do it motivates me to work on the wxWidgets based HID). 4: No issues with spaces in directories or file names (I know some of these have been fixed, not sure all of them have?). 5: In a longer term project a proper Windows 'Help' system for the program(s). ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Used LPKF ProtoMat S62 PCB Router for sale
On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 7:12 PM, DROA droa.or...@gmail.com wrote: hi! im truly interest in this article... do you still have it? thanks for all the info. My secondary e-mail is: droa.or...@gmail.com. I don't know, I'll find out. It was not mine, it was someone I was doing work for at the time. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Electromagnetic bike
On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 11:11 PM, Rob Butts r.but...@gmail.com wrote: I was just looking at that (the eddy current brake). Yes, what is needed to build a bike with a braking action is a magnetic force similar to pushing two magnets of the same pole towards each other. A bike where the resistance is not friction but a magnetic field resistance. Are you after Regenerative Breaking? The kinetic energy is put back into the battery or better yet capacitor bank. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: why some skip KiCAD and gEDA
we should find textbooks to study on GUI design From page 540 of the wxBook, that is downloadable online for free. Actual URL's might need updated: Further Reading Apple Human Interface Guidelines: http://developer.apple.com/documentation/ UserExperience/Conceptual/OSXHIGuidelines/index.html Key differences between Mac OS X and Windows UIs: http://developer. apple.com/ue/switch/windows.html Microsoft Official Guidelines for UI Developers: http://msdn.microsoft.com/ library/default.asp?url=/library/en us/dnwue/html/welcome.asp GNOME Human Interface Guidelines: http://developer.gnome.org/ projects/gup/hig GUI Bloopers: Don’ts and Do’s for Software Developers and Web Designers, by Jeff Johnson (Academic Press). ISBN 1-55860-582-7 User Interface Design for Programmers, by Joel Spolsky (Apress). ISBN 1-893115-94-1 Software for Use: A Practical Guide to the Models and Methods of Usage- Centered Design, by Larry L. Constantine and Lucy A.D. Lockwood (ACM Press). ISBN 0-201-92478-1 Support your local library... ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: test repo
Thanks for setting up such a service, a well kept secret until now Its been discussed before. let's keep this one quite as not to waken the wild hoards of windoze users ;-) Should windoze users file bug reports in LP for these nightly windows snapshots too ? Bugs are bugs, they need reported. This anti-Windows attitude is not helpful to the project, and I'm not trying to pick on you specifically Bert. sorry if it seems that way. In my personal view there seems to be a fear that a bunch of people from Windows will show up asking annoying questions. Yet I see the same questions over-and-over from new users on non-Windows systems, and no one gets annoyed with them. There are two groups of people involved in using EDA tools. Hobbyist trying to learn and have fun, and professionals that just want to get work done. Those in the professional category often have no choice but to use Windows due to IT departments or uninformed management policies. I know of at least one person that was here for a while, who is extremely knowledgeable in Analog Design, that left because of lack of Windows support. He is now quit vocal about it in other groups driving potential users, and more importantly contributors, away. In the hobbyist group we have to be aware of the Baby-Duck-Syndrome. When a Baby-Duck is born, it imprints the first moving thing it sees to be its Mother. In software the first tool a person is exposed to is the one they may stick with for a life time. Do we want to be a tool that a first time user can be productive with in a few minutes, or at least hours? No, that does not mean things get broken for current users that like Makefiles. First time users and long time users can be supported by the same tool, and constant wining about something maybe getting it broken by a change to improve usability is no more productive for the project than wining about Windows, and has driven off contributors. If it gets broken, it gets fixed. Outside of our group here gEDA/PCB/Et.Al. are seen as toys and hard to use. Maybe we should all asks ourselves why? [Which does not mean that my message here needs any kind of reply telling use why, we all know if some issue or other that needs addressed, starting an other wining sessions is not my goal with this message.] The attitude of 'Things would be so much better if the customers would all just go away' and stop complaining about real usability problems is sure to cause a long slow painful death of any project. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: plugins (was: How can you help...)
Documenting them however is a big deal. Is there even a comprehensive list of plugins that are done at a single place? ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Fwd: Re: [OH Updates] How can you help solve the proprietary tool problem?
Just for the record, I'm not sure what our moderation policy is. Are any of your posts being rejected by moderation? (If so - just what kind of emails are you sending? ;)). One of the things that changed when the list went moderated, is that I no longer see my own posts, so I really never know if the reached the list. Before moderation I'd see my own posts. I assume this applies to everyone, or at least everyone using gmail maybe? ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Layers and Buried/Blind Vias in gEDA
On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 6:54 AM, Andrew Poelstra as...@sfu.ca wrote: On Sun, Aug 21, 2011 at 01:30:57AM -0400, Gus Fantanas wrote: While following the discussion about layers, I wondered if the capability to handle buried/blind vias could be implemented in gEDA. This would require core layer-handling changes. The patch to add Blind/Buried vias has been suffering from Bit Rot on Source Forge for years. It was last rebased about a year ago: http://www.seul.org/pipermail/geda-user/2010-July/047949.html ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: tragesym error - help please!
The cells in the csv-file has a comma s seperator. tragesym expects a tab as seperator. You should use save as txt and not save as csv. If the Tab is the separator, should that not be save as tsv? Tab-Separated-Value. Excel exports files as tsv. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Tag-Connect TC2030-MCP(NL) footprint, expert review
On another note, have any of you used spring-pin connectors for programming/debug connectors to save space and BOM cost? I have been thinking about how I would design my own spring-pin programming We use Mill-Max 821/823 series to do AVR ISP program at work. I can get you the exact number when I get back to the office on Monday. Our jig kind of looks like a mini-sewing machine. Lever press the six pin connector into the holes on the board. The levers are a standard hold down clamps from McMaster Carr: http://www.mcmaster.com/#hold-down-toggle-clamps/=dld9w1 We also build Bed-Of-Nail spring-probe test fixtures out of blocks of hard wax, and mill the holes for individual spring probes to hit test points on the boards. Same Hold-Down-Clamps are used here as well. Every switch point, power supply connector, etc. has a test point pad that hits a probe, for our board testers. Something I've wanted to do Real Soon Now is make a universal board tester out of a Actel Fusion FPGA (Have embedded ARM cores, A/D, D/A, I/O etc), were I load a program for the board and hook up one of the above bed-of-nails for the target under test, rather than building testers for each product. A mini-version of the old Wayne Kerr board testers I use to work on. Same fixture would be used to program the target as it is tested. Typically a test a bootloader and a self-test program is loaded into the micro during board testing. A real application will get loaded, via bootloader, on the production floor before final shipment. Something from my blog: http://blog.designer-iii.com/avr_isp_spi/20081116-10511-Digital-MEMS-Accelerometers-will-not-work-with-AVR-ISP-using-SPI You are supposed to isolated the AVR ISP pins with 1k resistors, as the Atmel documentation shows. This is true. However that takes four resistors per board, on a board that already did not have enough space. Also at 50,000 units per year, with an design lifetime of five years, that is 1,000,000 resistors. After a while these resistors start to add up to real money, for what is a single event at manufacturing time. Design for Manufacturing always should be given consideration. I'll show people your T-C parts next week, might save us some room too, thanks. -- http://blog.softwaresafety.net/ http://www.designer-iii.com/ http://www.wearablesmartsensors.com/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Power relay question
Even if I ran a 4000 right on the 12v, I wouldn't count on that 12v to be very clean if it has motors running off it. Electrically braking a motor with an H-bridge can spike the power rails. And a pic + regulator (sot-26 + sot-323)... Fast transients will go through the typical regulator as if it was not there at all. Some have better rejection ratios than others. A Depletion FET can be put before a regulator, driving the regulator's Vin, in a noisy environment, or where the regulator itself does not go as high as Vin. Drive its gate with the output of the regulator, it then becomes a variable resistor to absorb the transient, be sure to account for power dissipation, to keep the transient out of the regulator in the first place. SuperTex has an application note covering this, which Ixys copied sections of; Depletion-Mode Power MOSFETs and Applications by Abdus Sattar of Ixys. Ixys makes higher power Depletion FETs than SuperTex. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Anybody ever had a board assembled (pick and place)?
On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 1:28 PM, yamazakir2 yamazak...@gmail.com wrote: I have had many boards manufactured but never had one also assembled. What are the costs to do this? Are there any (cheap) manufactures that also do pick and place? Do they buy the components for you or do you have to send them reels, meaning you have to buy 1000's of components at a time? I've addressed those very questions in my hardware blog over the years: Is there a rule of thumb for estimating the cost of getting circuit boards assembled?: http://blog.designer-iii.com/contract_manufacturer/20090616-211514-Is-there-a-rule-of-thumb-for-estimating-the-cost-of-getting-circuit-boards-assembled ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: possible collaborators on PCB, gschem [Kicad (or another FOSS tool)]
[1] Notice I don't represent the whole of CERN in this, just a corridor of hackers with an attitude. Make a PCB HID that is a plug-in to ROOT, problem solved. :-) http://root.cern.ch/drupal/ I've actually thought doing of that a couple of times. Javier, would that actual be of any value? [Your FOSS tools message made the PCB mailing list in short order.] For those that have never heard of ROOT: ROOT's well documented, Open Source (their own license) and part of the CERN data collection infrastructure. C++ code where everything descends from a common object TObj etc... http://root.cern.ch/drupal/content/users-guide Graphics and Graphical User Interface Graphical containers: canvas and pad, graphical objects, axis, legends, postscript interface, 3D viewers http://root.cern.ch/download/doc/9Graphics.pdf Writing a Graphical User Interface http://root.cern.ch/download/doc/25WritingGUI.pdf If you're not into PCB they also cover various simulators, and how to save Petabytes of data with error recovery. You might only be able to find that elusive Higg's Particle once, how do you deal with a full disk array when it happens kind of thing; via robust file structures. Worth everyone looking at the project regardless of your interests, you'll find something of interest to you. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Conformal coatings, PCA water-proofing
It is quite surprising that coating a PCA in silicone would not provide a water proof seal. But based on what I have recently read, you are right that conformal coatings are permeable to water. It is a mater of how long it takes. What about potting the circuit rather than applying a conformal coating? Could that provide a true water proof hermetic seal? For instance, suppose I wanted to immerse a temperature measurement circuit in a container of water for extended periods. Could it be potted in silicone or some other commonly available substance to protect it from water? Nothing beats a welded box with gasketed connectors. I've seen water wik up cables fifty feet in the air, got a shower from one when I disconnected the connector. I've seen potting wik as well. Water always wins, it is just a question of how long it takes. The other thing to watch for is pressure differentials from inside to outside the box. Changes in pressure cause flexing that act like a pump to suck water in. I've seen membrane switches turned into balloons, when being transported from a mile below ground to a mile above ground. Gortex can help with that problem. Like all things in this line of work it is all trade offs. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: High voltage caps in small places
On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 9:13 PM, Kai-Martin Knaak k...@lilalaser.de wrote: Ethan Swint wrote: I wonder what materials are available for soldermask and if they have higher moisture resistance? Maybe conformal coating fits your needs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conformal_coating A very common misconception is that Conformal Coating is a Hermetic Seal. It is used a lot in the Coal Mines, and the Electronic Industry in general, to keep the caustic dust etc. off circuit boards. As Conformal Coating is not a hermetic seal, what real happens is the impurities in the water are kept away from the circuit, but the water itself reaches the traces. Since the water is now fairly devoid of contaminates the water acts more like a dielectric insulator. You never notice it in a low impedance digital circuit, but unless debugging is an obsession don't let it get near a RF tuning circuit or a high impedance sensor. For example Analog Devices for their (obsolete?) electrostatic grade OpAmps say to expose to air rather than coat. Conformal Coating has lots of applications, however the application and environment that the product is going to be used in has to be understood when the system is being designed. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: guile under minipack?
Anyone have an nsis script with which to package it all up? There are only ones for PCB and GerbV, in the win32 directories, that Dan put together. When I tried the PCB one the other day it was missing the license files, that I have tracked down now. As others have noted, gschem fails at startup Is the one that I built failing on your system too? It works fine here as far as I can tell, just loaded a schematic. 1.6.2 gives me this: wine bin/gschem.exe You are running gEDA/gaf version [1.6.2.20110115], but you have a version [20091004] gschemrc file: [(null)] Please be sure that you have the latest rc file. (gschem.exe:8): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: g_object_set_valist: construct property type for object `Log' can't be set after construction 1.6.0 does not complain about the gschem file. In the 1.6.2 log there is this: gEDA/gschem version 1.6.2.20110115 gEDA/gschem comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY; see COPYING for more details. This is free software, and you are welcome to redistribute it under certain conditions; please see the COPYING file for more details. Read system config file [c:\program files\geda\share\geda\system-gafrc] Did not find optional user config file [c:\users\bob\.geda\gafrc] Did not find optional local config file [z:\home\bob\geda\minipack\result\gafrc] Read system config file [c:\program files\geda\share\geda\system-gschemrc] Did not find optional user config file [c:\users\bob\.geda\gschemrc] Did not find optional local config file [z:\home\bob\geda\minipack\result\gschemrc] Read init scm file [C:\Program Files\gEDA\share\gEDA\scheme/gschem.scm] New file [Z:\home\bob\gEDA\minipack\result\untitled_1.sch] Tried to set the sensitivity on non-existent menu item '_Edit/Cu_t' Tried to set the sensitivity on non-existent menu item '_Edit/_Copy' Tried to set the sensitivity on non-existent menu item '_Edit/_Delete' Tried to set the sensitivity on non-existent menu item '_Edit/Copy Mode' Tried to set the sensitivity on non-existent menu item '_Edit/Multiple Copy Mode' [and a whole lot more of those. I'll have to try 1.6.0 to see if it said that too.] The log window starts out as this tiny unusable box on top of the main window, and it must be moved and expanded. My native gschem starts the log out in full screen mode and I have to close or shrink it. When I close gschem 1.6.2 I get this, but not with 1.6.0: fixme:volume:GetVolumePathNameW (LZ:\\home\\bob\\gEDA\\minipack\\result, 0xcf9598, 260), stub! fixme:volume:GetVolumePathNameW (LZ:\\home\\bob\\gEDA, 0xcd3e90, 260), stub! fixme:volume:GetVolumePathNameW (LZ:\\home\\bob\\gEDA\\Projects, 0xd174d0, 260), stub! fixme:volume:GetVolumePathNameW (LZ:\\home\\bob\\gEDA\\Projects\\NeonLR812, 0xcad0e0, 260), stub! fixme:msvcrt:MSVCRT__wsopen : pmode 0x01b6 ignored fixme:msvcrt:MSVCRT__wsopen : pmode 0x01b6 ignored fixme:msvcrt:MSVCRT__wsopen : pmode 0x01b6 ignored fixme:msvcrt:MSVCRT__wsopen : pmode 0x01b6 ignored fixme:msvcrt:MSVCRT__wsopen : pmode 0x01b6 ignored ~/gEDA/minipack/result $ GerbV 2.5.0 closes with similar problems but 2.4.0 does not. Sometime today all of my build should be on my website, some security issues make posting things there take far longer than I'd like right now, so others that are interested can try it. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: guile under minipack?
On Sat, Jun 4, 2011 at 2:06 AM, DJ Delorie d...@delorie.com wrote: Status... I know your working on other issues, but figured it was better to keep the current minipack stuff in the same thread. Hmm. I was going to post the to many colors error I was getting with HEAD of PCB as of May/30/2011, but now the error is not there. This might be an other case of minipack having a circular dependency. I've noted that sometimes the minipack commands must be run twice. The first run errors out, but the second run works fine. Cesar, how can I 'make install' different versions of the same package? I assume I need a 'patch' to configure.in that would append the version information to the .exe, in the same way that it shows up in the directory names? For anyone that wants to play with arbitrary sources in minipack, here is how from Cesar via private email a while ago: The mpk shell recipe command will open a subshell prepared for manually cross-compile arbitrary sources. ./mpk shell pcb cd some-build-location-for-pcb git clone git://git.gpleda.org/pcb.git cd pcb ./autogen.sh echo $mpk_opt | xargs ./configure make make install exit wine result/bin/pcb.exe ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: guile under minipack?
On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 2:01 PM, DJ Delorie d...@delorie.com wrote: Hmmm... what autoconf did your autoreconf use? # Generated by GNU Autoconf 2.66 for guile 1.8.7. build/guile-1.8.7-2/guile-1.8.7/configure:# Generated by GNU Autoconf 2.65 for guile 1.8.7. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: guile under minipack?
On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 1:01 PM, DJ Delorie d...@delorie.com wrote: Has anyone successfully built guile 1.8.7 with the latest minipack? I just did a fresh checkout of minipack and am not even getting that far right now: pango: Build succeeded. Unpacking gtk+... patching file gdk/win32/gdkevents-win32.c Hunk #1 succeeded at 1876 (offset -367 lines). Hunk #2 succeeded at 2412 (offset -443 lines). Configuring gtk+... configure: error: *** Sorry, cups-config present but cups/cups.h missing. = gtk+: Build failed. = Anyone have any suggestions? ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: guile under minipack?
On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 1:01 PM, DJ Delorie d...@delorie.com wrote: Has anyone successfully built guile 1.8.7 with the latest minipack? guile: Build succeeded. That part worked fine with the minipack I just pulled. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Solving the light/heavy symbol problem
On Sat, May 21, 2011 at 9:09 AM, Kai-Martin Knaak k...@lilalaser.de wrote: My proposal to tackle many of the library related issues is the notion of packages. These would be data structures that can contain all information relevant to an entity us humans like to build electronics from. Specifically, they may contain * symbols * footprints * simulation models * data sheets Not clear to me if your proposal means the data sheets are included in the distributed package? If so, that most likely runs afoul of the company's copyrights and would require permission from said copyright owner, for *each* data sheet. I've had to contact legal departments to use information in data sheets in some of my work, and they've always been happy to grant such access, but you still have to go through the time consuming steps. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Reinventing the wheel
Why not start with the existing tools and just rewrite the parts you're interested in? License? (and if you really want to get *that* involved in pcb layout tools, there *are* parts of pcb that could stand to be ripped out and replaced... ;) Might interfere with someones script running someplace? ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: One more viewer for gEDA data.
2011/5/14 Павел Таранов taranov.pa...@gmail.com: Thank you all, for the warm words :) I was not aware that HTML5 (canvas) already supports editing of graphics -- can you point me to a description and a minimal example, like scribble-window? No, just now SVG was not the root technology of this project 'cos weak support of it on mobile browsers. Opera supports some sub set of SVG, and has a few good articles about these designs: SVG or Canvas? Сhoosing between the two http://dev.opera.com/articles/view/svg-or-canvas-choosing-between-the-two/ http://dev.opera.com/articles/svg/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Where is pcb-20100929 for Win32 ?
On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 2:18 AM, DJ Delorie d...@delorie.com wrote: If somebody requires GTK sources - let download them directly from http://gtk.org/ I used GTK etc. libs unmodified. Unfortunately, the GPL does not allow this. If we're shipping GTK dlls, we must offer the GTK sources ourselves. Why are individuals who are trying to help the project being held to a higher standard that the projects own download page? http://pcb.gpleda.org/ 's download link does not contain GTK sources, sources of compilers or sources for the Windows operating system. Doesn't PCB's source code actually predate the GPL? When and who put it under GPL? All of this legal crap just takes the fun and desire out of working on the project. Do you have a list of the various source tarballs that went into the pcb installer's files, so that Kai and I can download them? Using the 'minipack' build system takes care of downloading the sources so they would be available to upload to be GPL compliant. It is also a lot less painful that what Vacla just described. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Where is pcb-20100929 for Win32 ?
How did you succeed to compile geda for windows? I've used 'minipack'. It builds those too, not just PCB. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Where is pcb-20100929 for Win32 ?
http://pcb.gpleda.org/ 's download link does not contain GTK sources, sources of compilers or sources for the Windows operating system. Please read the GPL so you understand what needs to be included, and what doesn't. The sources need NOT include anything that's a normal part of the OS, development kit, or included runtime, UNLESS YOU DISTRIBUTE THAT WITH YOUR BINARY. I've read it many times, due to its ambiguity, case in point: The issues is not the PCB license. The issue is the GTK license (and other libraries we use). If we distribute the GTK dll, we must distribute the GTK sources. Is GTK not part of the development kit? If we forced people to install MinGW to get the GTK dlls, we would not need to distribute the GTK sources. I don't follow, GTK dll's are not part of MinGW. I think everyone agrees that's the way to go. I just didn't have much luck with minipack last time I tried. Give it a try again, as I think Ceasar fixed several issues, that I reported to him when I had trouble getting it going. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Where is pcb-20100929 for Win32 ?
Maybe these files will be helpful to somebody Thank you. Please tell me if these links do not work. I will try to upload files again. While the links did work, when the download was completed I found a new tab had appeared in Chrome, the browser I was using. The in-your-face pictures in that tab are completely unsuitable for a business or family (or any in my personal view) environment. I'm sure it is nothing you were aware of, just the nature of these kind of these file sharing sites. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Origami Flex Circuits Take Shape at All Flex
On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 2:01 PM, DJ Delorie d...@delorie.com wrote: I'm going to go out on a limb and state that I refuse to support non-flat layers :-) http://www.allflexinc.com/origamiflex.shtml Supported or not these things are worth taking a look at just for the strangeness if noting else: Origami Flex Circuits Take Shape at All Flex Origami Flex Circuits, a patented (pending) products system by All Flex, provides customers and prospects with a visual reminder of how flex circuits can be creatively formed within three dimensional space to solve a packaging and interconnect challenge. The company, on a periodic basis, designs and fabricates unique, stand-along products constructed using traditional flexible circuit materials. All Flex displays these Origami Flex Circuits as various tradeshows and promotional events as well as providing them to prospect/customers as a collectible item. Click on the images to see the flat state of each product prior to folding. so it is still 'flat' for support in PCB? :-) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Where is pcb-20100929 for Win32 ?
is mostly on my end (getting a build environment set up seems more problematic than I expected). Using the minipack build environment has been working for building the Windows version. If anyone wants to help make the process more robust, feel free :-) If the steps for creating the release are written down, Wiki would be fine, I'll take care of making a regular build of the Windows version. In discussing this with Dan a couple of years ago it was issues like tracking down the licenses to be shown by the installer etc. that were more problematic than the actual building of the code to do a release. I started once and gave up when I could not find the zlib license, then I understood what Dan meant. I'll do the steps needed, but need to have the staircase documented first. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: default pcb stackup change?
3. Rename outer layers to top/bottom, which seems to be what other packages (specifically, eagle and kicad) use. Component/solder isn't as obvious with SMT. Sometimes the outer layers are called Primary and Secondary. Consider a board of memory chips. Some memories come in mirror image footprints. One side looks exactly like the other side when you populate both sides with such mirrored chips. Gets even more interesting when the 'Top Side' gets put in an enclosure upside down and production doesn't realize the connector can't be mirrored too. :-( I concede that Top/Bottom is more common, not necessarily accurate. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: OT?: Altium (Protel) Relocates From Sydney Australia to Shanghai China
I know several people here use Altium and/or Protel, such as when the Day Job forces us to do so, anyway though you might find of interest that Altium has announced they are moving the company to Shanghai China. Former Altium employ David L. Jones of EEBlog http://www.eevblog.com/ confirms this: They [Altium] are moving, lock stock and barrel, to China, and as a result, a whole bunch of people were made redundant or laid off...I don't know the exact numbers, but it's a lot,...The idea is to move all their RD to China, and pretty much start again. -- David L. Jones of as quoted here http://www.theamphour.com/2011/04/05/the-chinese-clairvoyancy/ . Press Release: http://www.noodls.com/view/35AEF71FED0C4035C1F9EA872525988B2CCC323E News : http://pcdandf.blogspot.com/2011/04/altium-on-move.html http://www.electronicsnews.com.au/news/altium-relocates-from-sydney-to-shanghai The press release says: Altium plans to expand its RD team over time by drawing on the talent pool in China. I spent some time with someone who had been doing some consulting for a company in China that developed Cellphones. His description of the development process in China was, ammm, unkind. His description went something like this: The Chinese developers had no access to Internet. They had no idea what good code should look like [Sadly, from seeing code on Internet, it seems like a lot of people that do have Internet don't get know either]. After a new developer gained some experience they were promoted to management, and a new inexperienced developer was brought in to replace him [No evidence to support there are any female developers involved here. Are females smart enough to stay out of this field or they are never born with the 'Knack' (Dilbert[TM] reference)?]. Any developer that wanted to keep doing development, because they enjoyed it, was seen as lazy by the culture from not getting promoted to management. The developers always wanted to know the fastest way to do something and had no interest in learning the best way to do something. In the end the company did ship Cellphones that some how did work. Is that all that maters? I hope not... Is this one company representative of all development in China? I hope not... Hopefully this will drive a lot more interest to gEDA and PCB. -- http://blog.softwaresafety.net/ http://www.designer-iii.com/ http://www.wearablesmartsensors.com/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB Netlist syntax
I created the netlist using gschem2pcb and then edited it using a text editor, Did the text editor change the end of line format? I've seen that error when editing the netlist with Windows Text Editors, or text editors that adapt. If you use EMACS on Windows make sure it is a unix format file and not a DOS style file. If, instead, I use -power I get: WARNING! Pin number ending with 'R' encountered in netlist file Probably a bad netlist file format Can't find pin POWER called for in netlist. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Configuring PCB for out of source builds?
In the current build system for PCB is there a way to run ./configure that will handle out-of-source builds? I'm missing it if it is in there. I want to be able to build Windows, GTK and Lesstif versions of PCB out of the same source tree, without 'make clean' cycles all of the time. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: US Distributor for Balloon Board
On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 8:50 PM, Patrick Doyle wpds...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Folks, I'm looking for a US distributor for a Balloon Board (http://www.balloonboard.org/) or it's equivalent There is the Begal Board decedent Crane Board: http://designsomething.org/craneboard/ Might not have the FPGA stuff you'd want. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: General Layers questions
(I've never seen a mobius flexboard design, but I bet someone has done it.) Well, sure they did: http://www.evilmadscientist.com/article.php/mobiuscircuit But apart from being the cool guy with mobius strip, it's IMHO not usable. Resistors formed in the shape of a Mobius have no inductance, which is frequently a desirable thing to have: http://www.rexresearch.com/davis/davis.htm http://www.rexresearch.com/zip/davis.zip ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: any place that fabs custom project boxes?
On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 2:24 PM, yamazakir2 yamazak...@gmail.com wrote: Let me re-iteraite what i am looking for. I'm looking for mid quantity production run, maybe 50-100. Also looking for a plastic enclosure with nothing fancy, just a box with cutouts for I/O ports. You could pick up a shlock-box from any place and go with Front Panel Express to make it look good: http://www.frontpanelexpress.com/ -- http://blog.softwaresafety.net/ http://www.designer-iii.com/ http://www.wearablesmartsensors.com/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: OT: Vintage uP
most in ESD foam. Check the leads. Long term storage, years, in some ESD foam will actually eat away the leads. Been-there-done-that. :-( ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: transition of pcb internal units to metric (SI, mm)
Speaking of this, with floating point values... Floating Point gets you dynamic range, not precision Integers and Fixed Point get you precision, not dynamic range. There is also BCD representations in the precision category. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: New Column: From the CAD Library
New Column: From the CAD Library When creating a CAD library, there are dozens of things to consider that are often overlooked or not even considered that will directly affect the quality of part placement, via fanout, trace routing, post processing, fabrication, and assembly processes. This article, Part 1 of a series, introduces aspects that should be considered when creating CAD library parts. http://www.pcbdesign007.com/pages/zone.cgi?a=74214 Has tips worth considering. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Time tracking
On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 7:26 PM, Darryl Gibson n2d...@gmail.com wrote: I'm curious what folks are using for time tracking and/or billing? Something that I just came across and am going to give a try: http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs-en/BufferTimer ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Alternate Platforms
On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 9:12 AM, Peter Clifton pc...@cam.ac.uk wrote: Perhaps I'm being short-sighted, but I don't see a great potential for serious EDA work on phone sized devices. Even if they get the screen-resolution high enough, the size is very small for design work, and the input problematic. Actual design work probably not all that useful do to small size. The place where it wold great is in being a trouble shooting tool in the field. You're in the field and need to see the layout to find where that trace once was after it vaporized from a component failure, so you can put a jumper in its place... You're in the field and need to replace a capacitor, you need to see the value on the schematic... All the while you are someplace like here, where the window of opportunity is small to non-existent: http://www.martingrund.de/pinguine/pinguincam1.htm I too was waiting for Meego, last week Nokia said they where going to Android, no one is sure what is going to happen to Meego. :-( -- http://blog.softwaresafety.net/ http://www.designer-iii.com/ http://www.wearablesmartsensors.com/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Alternate Platforms
Still - most places I went to do a repair, I'd want to take a laptop or at least a tablet. Getting out that remote without a computer seems like as well thought out as going to do said repair and forgetting to pack your soldering iron. Some places like Coal Mines (Been there, to many times), and Military Installations (Horror stories from colleague doing that now) etc. have very restrictive policies on what you can bring with you. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Windows gEDA port
On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 1:21 AM, Terrance Hutchinson reapersoftw...@gmail.com wrote: What about MinGW-w64 support? It also has the MinGW-w32 compiler as well. I find that the MinGW-w64/w32 is a much better cross-compiler. Are you familiar with the TDM project? http://tdm-gcc.tdragon.net/ It bundles w64 and w32 so that you can build both 32 bit and 64 bit with -m32 and -m64 to control whether 32-bit or 64-bit binaries are generated. TDM claims, but I've not tried yet, that building under MSYS will work, which should be faster than Cygwin. TDM usually leads MinGW in versions, tho right now MinGW is 4.5.2 and TDM is 4.5.1. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Windows gEDA port
On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 5:33 PM, DJ Delorie d...@delorie.com wrote: You can cross-compile from Fedora to MinGW using only yum-installed packages. Big win for me :-) I've build a mingw PCB just by ./configure --host=mingw... and it runs under Wine. Er, I might have had some *.c patches in place at the time, though. There is also minipack for doing cross compiling of everything gEDA/gerbv/PCB : http://code.google.com/p/minipack/ Use the version from git, I don't know that the download as been updated, or if the new versions patch has been applied yet there. If you go that way let me know and I'll send you what I have. There also some related patch in the tracker for PCB at lanuchpad; DJ I did the updates that you requested to them. -- http://blog.softwaresafety.net/ http://www.designer-iii.com/ http://www.wearablesmartsensors.com/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Windows gEDA port
On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 7:24 PM, DJ Delorie d...@delorie.com wrote: The only problem I recall from minipack is that it wanted to download the pcb tarball, despite having the pcb sources right there, Use the minipack shell command, tips from Cesar that I've been using: ./mpk shell pcb cd some-build-location-for-pcb git clone git://git.gpleda.org/pcb.git cd pcb ./autogen.sh echo $mpk_opt | xargs ./configure make make install exit wine result/bin/pcb.exe There is no need to rebuild everything this time, just exit and reenter the mpk shell and run: make clean echo $mpk_opt | xargs ./configure make make install ./mpk shell pcb cd ~/wxPCB/minipack/pcbtest/pcb make clean echo $mpk_opt | xargs ./configure --disable-doc --disable-png [can't get png to build yet] make make install and it used an older version of the mingw cross-compiler than fedora ships with. Can't speak to that, as I've not run into that under Gentoo, which is 4.4.3. MinGW proper was version 4.5.1 last week. TDM is usually a head of that by a version or two. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Windows gEDA port
Can't speak to that, as I've not run into that under Gentoo, Fedora's mingw is i686-pc-mingw32-gcc. What does gentoo call it? Same thing. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Windows gEDA port
Better - if someone *else* does the windows release binaries, I'll be happier :-) Is it documented what needs done to make a release, step-by-step? In discussing this with Dan in the past he often had troubles with things like tracking down license files for the installer as one example etc. -- http://blog.softwaresafety.net/ http://www.designer-iii.com/ http://www.wearablesmartsensors.com/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: PCB House Philway Products burns to ground
Heads up if anyone here uses the board house Philway: At approximately 10:30PM on Wednesday night, Jan/19/2011 http://www.philway.com Philway Products Inc. of Ashland, Ohio burned to the ground http://www.fox8.com/news/wjw-pictures-ashland-plant-fire-012011,0,904988.photogallery Fortunately no one was hurt. Philway was the oldest continually operating board house in the US. It was also my preferred PCB vendor, sharp people and good quality for the rugged environments I deal with. Purportedly the owner said on a TV interview that he was not sure if he was going to rebuild or not. Will be a great loss if that is the case. Also makes me wonder even if they did want to rebuild, would the http://www.epa.gov EPA allow it? Ammonia, Sulfuric Acid, Nitric Acid, Formaldehyde and other chemicals are used to make PCBs. Philway was big in the military and Hi.Rel. Aerospace, there could be a significant ripple effect from this event. I've never been a fan of Just In Time inventory for just this reason. Luckily from my perspective no work of mine was in process. Someone wondered what will happen about tooling? Do we have to pay for it again should they rebuild? Obviously we will if they don't rebuild. Time will tell, the lives of those involved deserve more consideration and help right now, some links from the news: http://www.wmfd.com/newsboard/single.asp?Story=44669 Firefighters Battle Philway Products Fire In Ashland http://times-gazette.com/news/article/4966992 1/19/11 Philway Products Fire http://www.times-gazette.com/news/article/4967083 1/20/11 Philway Products Fire - morning http://www.times-gazette.com/news/article/4967340 Officials probe cause of factory fire: Firefighters keep blaze from stored chemicals http://www.mansfieldnewsjournal.com/article/20110121/NEWS01/101210315/40-Philway-workers-in-limbo-after-big-blaze Philway Products workers in limbo after fire destroys factory http://www.mansfieldnewsjournal.com/article/20110120/NEWS01/101200332/Ashland-factory-Philway-Products-destroyed-in-Wednesday-fire Ashland factory, Philway Products, destroyed in Wednesday fire http://www.mansfieldnewsjournal.com/article/20110120/UPDATES01/110120008/Ashland-factory-fire-No-evidence-of-criminal-intent Ashland factory fire: No evidence of criminal intent http://www.fox8.com/news/wjw-pictures-ashland-plant-fire-012011,0,904988.photogallery PICTURES: Ashland Plant Fire -- http://blog.softwaresafety.net/ http://www.designer-iii.com/ http://www.wearablesmartsensors.com/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Where to PCB patchs get submitted now?
I wanted to submit a patch to PCB. Launchpad tells me to use the Source Forge tracker, which can't be found on Source Forge anymore: Error - The Tracker has been disabled for this group Seems we have a case of circular instructions between the two sites right now. http://pcb.gpleda.org/ - https://launchpad.net/pcb/ - https://bugs.launchpad.net/pcb/+filebug - pcb bug reporting guidelines: Please submit bugs, feature requests and patches to the project's SourceForge issue tracking system. - http://sourceforge.net/projects/pcb/ [After a lot of stumbling around as there is no clear way to submit a patch at SF any more:] http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detailaid=3149800group_id=73743atid=538814 - Error - The Tracker has been disabled for this group ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Where to PCB patchs get submitted now?
https://bugs.launchpad.net/pcb/+filebug Which does not report as you quoted below. It is possible someone has fixed before I looked though. Looks like it. You had to submit a summary and hit 'next' to get that message. The message is now different: pcb bug reporting guidelines: You can assist us in handling bugs promptly by: 1) Checking that a similar bug report hasn't already been filed. 2) Explaining what you were doing when you observed the bug. 3) Clearly detailing how the behaviour that you experienced differed from what you expected. 4) Including step-by-step instructions for reproducing the problem, and, if possible, a minimal test case. We recommend using 'git format-patch' to create patch files for submission. Patches can generally be merged more quickly if you: 1) Avoid unnecessary whitespace changes. 2) Ensure all related documentation is updated. 3) Include a detailed commit message in your patch. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Where to PCB patchs get submitted now?
Ok, I found the quote - it was in our tips for filing bugs. (gEDA and PCB) Doh. I thought I had sifted through all the instances of sourceforge in the geda-wiki. It was on Launchpad actually. Is there a page on the wiki about how to use git specific to gEDA/PCB, Like how to format patches etc.? ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Rant about Make Inv Text Vis
Lets kill it with fire. One use-case would be to quickly inspect all of these attributes. It makes a difference wether you see attributes in a seperate sheet vs. you see them right next to each symbol. I don't know if it applies to the feature you are discussing or not, but I have a use case where I need to turn off global visibility of values for items. In any normal schematic, destined for a PCB layout, there is normally a designator and a value, like R1 : 1k. A Government agency that I have the misfortune of submitting schematics to for approval of my devices rejects any schematics that shows the value. They say it makes to much work for them to compare the schematic and BOM to make sure the values match. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: FYI [Fwd: [Balloon] Balloon 4]
a) They have Altium b) They have bits in Altium already (footprints etc..) - momentum. c) They need an auto-router which can handle really complex stuff. Hun? Three of us at work have spent weeks trying to get Altium's autorouter to do much at all, and do it correctly when it does, and finally gave up. As far I can tell the native Altium router is just there to irritate you enough to force your boss into spending the money for their high end optional router. The autorouter in PCB 'just works'. d) Blind / buried vias may be needed. Which is why I still endure Altium. I know there is a build of PCB 'out there' that does have the patch applied for this. No-one could in good conscience suggest PCB is going to be able to compete up with that sort of design. I must be unconscious, as I use both regularly. PCB has its faults, mostly in the user interface, where Altium the faults are everyplace. For example there are multiple places to set up the printer. Some of the places work, some of the places interact with the other places, some places do nothing, and in the end you may or may not get what you wanted on the printer. My favorite is move a schematic from one place to an other, or even open the same schematic with the same version of Altium after reinstalling it due to a hard disk failure, and all of the schematic symbols now have 'dots' in them that you can't get rid of without redoing the schematic for every symbol. git HEAD rendering speed alone would make it prohibitive. You don't turn on the Altium's autorouter's 'show trials' unless your goal is to goof off. Not necessarily.. but whatever happens, it may well be beneficial to the community as a whole. I've never had much luck with Altium's own Import/Export working in trying to go between that and PADS. Seems like they really don't want it to work. You also have to know what version of Altium is being talked about because the proprietary file formats have changed over the years, in ways that are not backwards compatible with older versions. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA flow for chip design?
Any suggestions? There is also Toped: http://code.google.com/p/toped/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Christmas wishlist
This is a DRC issue. The rules should allow any net to connect to no-net copper. No need to restructure the way pcb handles connectivity. If different nets connect to the same no-net copper there is a short between nets. Consider a large item like you might solder a RFI shield to, that covers the perimeter of a large board. It would be easy to not notice different nets connected at different times, at opposite ends of the board. So I'd constrain your idea to a single net. Even then it would be better to have a warning that could be turned off per net. Maybe that connection was not intentional? ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Working on a tiny schematics editor
I would be interested how many people can run the demo script (peted.rb) from the top of the above page. Are the needed rcairo bindings shipped with distributions like Ubuntu? If not, then it may be easier for people to install the whole gEDA package than to get such a short ruby script running. :-( Under Gentoo I get this, and rcairo is installed: ruby peted.rb peted.rb:206:in `paint': undefined method `create_cairo_context' for #Gdk::Window:0x7fda529d2f90 ptr=0xcd7840 from peted.rb:122:in `darea_configure_callback' from peted.rb:69:in `initialize' from peted.rb:231:in `call' from peted.rb:231:in `show_all' from peted.rb:231:in `initialize' from peted.rb:268:in `new' from peted.rb:268 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Working on a tiny schematics editor
On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 11:47 AM, Stefan Salewski m...@ssalewski.de wrote: On Sun, 2010-12-26 at 11:30 -0500, Bob Paddock wrote: I would be interested how many people can run the demo script (peted.rb) from the top of the above page. Are the needed rcairo bindings shipped with distributions like Ubuntu? If not, then it may be easier for people to install the whole gEDA package than to get such a short ruby script running. :-( Under Gentoo I get this, and rcairo is installed: ruby peted.rb peted.rb:206:in `paint': undefined method `create_cairo_context' for #Gdk::Window:0x7fda529d2f90 ptr=0xcd7840 from peted.rb:122:in `darea_configure_callback' from peted.rb:69:in `initialize' from peted.rb:231:in `call' from peted.rb:231:in `show_all' from peted.rb:231:in `initialize' from peted.rb:268:in `new' Please try to execute /usr/share/doc/ruby-pango-0.19.4/sample/pango_cairo.rb Results in: This sample requires Pango 1.0.0 or later and cairo support. Which is odd considering that the installed version is: 1.28.1 I'll take a look the bug reports. BTW, have you tried to cross compile gEDA with minipack? The Gentoo cross compiler can't seem to find the minipack package *.pkg files. Wondered if you had any insights. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Working on a tiny schematics editor
Or try /usr/share/doc/ruby-gtk2-0.19.4/sample/misc/cairo-pong.rb Should fail too, with the same message as my script. All related to the missing rb_cairo.h -- some Gentoo people seem to think that it is obsolete, but it seems to be needed on some boxes. /usr/share/doc/ruby-gtk2-0.19.4/sample/misc/cairo-pong.rb: 16: GTK+ 2.8.0 or later and cairo support are required. (RuntimeError) x11-libs/wxGTK Installed versions: 2.8.11.0(2.8)(11:07:20 12/14/10)(X opengl tiff -debug -doc -gnome -gstreamer -odbc -pch -sdl) 2.9.1(2.9)(22:45:15 12/11/10)(X opengl tiff -debug -doc -gnome -gstreamer -pch -sdl) Homepage:http://wxwidgets.org/ Description: GTK+ version of wxWidgets, a cross-platform C++ GUI toolkit. Available wxWidgets profiles: [1] gtk2-unicode-2.9 [2] gtk2-unicode-release-2.8 * x11-libs/cairo Installed versions: 1.8.10!t(19:16:33 12/11/10)(X opengl svg -aqua -cleartype -debug -directfb -doc -glitz -lcdfilter -xcb) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Working on a tiny schematics editor
I did not recall what I'd installed, and it looks like no specific profile is set, which might be the problem in itself: Interesting. For me no-multilib is marked with the star Yes, the selected profile is indicated with star. and I do not really like to change it. Me either, however I know that have no profile selected breaks things in strange ways. System is now rebuilding about 200 items. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Resistor values…
Flexibility and specific applicability are not mutually exclusive, and for the very reasons you are citing here. True, but what makes this possible? It's *avoiding* specificity in the foundations. I find that statement odd. If the foundation is not well specified then it is not a foundation at all, it is jello. I'm curious about how exacting the specifications are for your space projects? Here is an interesting document on specifying software from NASA: http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/codeq/doctree/871913.pdf The focus of this document is on analysis, development, and assurance of safety-critical software, including firmware (e.g. software residing in non-volatile memory, such as ROM, EPROM, EEPROM, or flash memory) and programmable logic. This document also discusses issues with contractor-developed software. It provides guidance on how to address creation and assurance of safety-critical software within the overall software development, management, risk management, and assurance activities. While gEDA and friends might not be considered 'safety-critical' by many, there is no reason good software disciplines should not be used, including good detailed specifications at all levels. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA Wikibook ?
Not even login with a fake name necessary. Sounds like a new Spam portal. That we don't need. -- http://blog.softwaresafety.net/ http://www.designer-iii.com/ http://www.wearablesmartsensors.com/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA Wikibook ?
www.mallardproject.org documents this, http://projectmallard.org/ I believe is the correct link. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA Wikibook ?
On Fri, Dec 24, 2010 at 11:27 AM, kai-martin knaak k...@familieknaak.de wrote: Bob Paddock wrote: Not even login with a fake name necessary. Sounds like a new Spam portal. That we don't need. Spam prevention by human watchdogs is part of the package. How will a human from the Book project know what is and what is not spam in an esoteric area like gEDA/PCB? It would not be hard for someone, with no background, to mistake a link to gedasymbols.org as spam link. If the humans are us, we still don't need more spam. Yes, this works. Did you ever notice any spam on wikipedia? I never did and I use wikipedia a lot. No commercials, either. Have you noticed the recent begging for funds on WikiPedia? ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Random thoughts on the future interface of PCB
Did you try to build/test all the demos that come with wxWindows - did you try to build another app, that uses it? - please report. My personal impression when I went for a widget tool kit was, that it's very complicated and broken. I've been using wxWidgets for over ten years now. You'll even find my name in the wxBook http://www.phptr.com/content/images/0131473816/downloads/0131473816_book.pdf so I'm well familiar with its warts. All of the commercial apps I've had to develop at work have been based on wx. Can't argue with it being complicated. Start with the above book, and get the 'minimal' sample to build/run then go from there. Can't argue that it could be improved in many places, but what can't stand improvement? What part did you find that was broken, and what version where you using? My best advice is, to avoid wxWindows altogether and use FLTK instead. Is it cross platform for Windows, Unix like, and MACs? I've used some applications based on FLTK but never developed any. #define FOREVER 1e20 Code full of 'magic numbers' with no comments don't give me the warm fuzzies. It should also have parenthesise around the number, if this is truly C and not something special to FLTK. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Random thoughts on the future interface of PCB
Parentheses around a constant are nonsense - there is nothing a plain number could evaluate to in the preprocessor than itself (unless you #define 1e20 (foo * i++)), so it has the highest precedence by itself. (couldn't you even #define (1e20) foo*i++ ?;-) Not knowing how the #define could be used in all cases it is better to put parentheses around such usages to have the compiler generate an error, rather than silently give the wrong value in corner cases where operators like multiplication and division are passed as parameters to an other macro. http://gimpel-online.com/MsgRef.html Look up #665. MISRA2004 19.4 and 19.10 apply in some circumstances as well. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Random thoughts on the future interface of PCB
If you switch to gEDA, will you want a native windows build? Help with that from anyone who is up on windows is on the wanted list. I've been poking at 'the perfect windows version' for some time, will give up on that for now. I think I just make basic canvas and figure how to to get the basic HID stuff going. Is there any step by step guide to get a new HID up and running (besides trolling the list here for the last few years with grep)? One thing I don't recall be doing before is that I want to use wxWindows, so it would have its own main() loop. Whats the best way to deal with that? And getting installer up and running is probably another story. Dan put together a NSIS based installer based on some of my work, it has been part of the PCB distribution for years. Only thing it really lacks is an icon. Not sure it has been updated to the latest version if NSIS but that should not be hard. See the win32 subdirectory. Unless I missed the change, direct printing under windows does not work, and the library manager is broken under Windows due to the way paths are handled. Exporting to PostScript works now when using GhostView under Windows to print that way. -- http://blog.softwaresafety.net/ http://www.designer-iii.com/ http://www.wearablesmartsensors.com/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Random thoughts on the future interface of PCB
It won't be perfect until its compilable by VStudio IDE and debuggable inside it as such. As long as GCC is involved in any equation of building software for Windows, no developer (who is actually paid to develop Windows software) is going to even touch it. I look forward to trying your LLVM port, when will be be ready? http://llvm.org/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Random thoughts on the future interface of PCB
I don't think a few 'maintenance nightmares' or matching '{' problems
are good reasons for giving up and just doing nothing instead. You
don't have to like the macros and so on to fix bugs, and IMO just
nutting up and dealing with the matching '{' issues
Not using the real braces make style highlighting in emacs not work
well, so bugs like dangling 'else' go unnoticed.
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Re: gEDA-user: Random thoughts on the future interface of PCB
Pleasant Experience means you get the board done sooner, which is a Good Thing. Generally, no. People love to kill time when the experience is pleasant. That's why low-productivity fritterware sells so well. But real productivity requires thought and study, something many people try hard to avoid. Sorry, I can't buy the its got to be a pain to use it argument in any manner at all. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Random thoughts on the future interface of PCB
Rick, I got line breaks. . On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 3:02 PM, Peter Clifton pc...@cam.ac.uk wrote: Just thought I'd write some of this down and put it out there. I've spent some time recently thinking way into the future about the GUI / usability for an advanced PCB editing program. Peter, while all of this sounds great, could we fix the collective problems that we have now first? To many of us PCB is used to ship products, preferably today. The Creeping Feature Creacher is a powerful task master. What we really need is good documentation for the Meta Data that contains what a pcb really is. Once MD is documented and abstracted then it should become easy to add any kind of new GUI, Router, Scripting, or just scrap the whole thing and start over. PCB design is a real hybrid of art, precision engineering and black magic. It is only magic for those without documentation, or initiation. Scrap straight line rats in favour of using the topological auto-router? Do different rat lines help ship products? Not that I see. To me that is the criteria for any feature. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Random thoughts on the future interface of PCB
On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 4:27 PM, Peter TB Brett pe...@peter-b.co.uk wrote: On Thursday 02 December 2010 21:13:47 Bob Paddock wrote: Peter, while all of this sounds great, could we fix the collective problems that we have now first? Like what, specifically? The 446 bugs in the tracker are a good start. Does Peter C's OpenGL renderer help ship products? Not that I see, but it make PCB a hell of a lot of a more pleasant experience to use. Pleasant Experience means you get the board done sooner, which is a Good Thing. -- http://blog.softwaresafety.net/ http://www.designer-iii.com/ http://www.wearablesmartsensors.com/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: mirrored footprint
On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 9:52 AM, Kai-Martin Knaak kn...@iqo.uni-hannover.de wrote: Hi. I just hit a legitimate use case for mirrored footprints: Memory chips frequently come in mirrored/not-mirrored versions, needing mirrored foot prints to make high density memory cards. -- http://blog.softwaresafety.net/ http://www.designer-iii.com/ http://www.wearablesmartsensors.com/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: OT: Gilbert Cell
On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 8:40 PM, gene glick carzr...@optonline.net wrote: Has anyone worked with Gilbert Cells? I'm having a lot of trouble with one from ON Semi, MC1496, formerly Motorola's part, I think. As Gilbert works for Analog Devices, I'd poke around there for ideas: http://www.google.com/search?q=Gilbert+Cell+site:Aanalog.com The most interesting use I've see for a Gilbert like device is for mathematical analog division, think it was using a couple of AD630's. Not finding that one right now, but this one might be more of direct help to your problem: http://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/rarely_asked_questions/computation.pdf ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA interview with DJ at DevCon
Perhaps, but its been on my To Do list for a long time to do a wxWidgets port of PCB. Why are so few people interested in FLTK? My reason is that I had to chose a tool kit that I could use for my day job making commercial software. I don't like FLTK's license in that context. While a Windows port of PCB in FLTK would not have such issues, I choose to spend my time elsewhere besides learning an other tool kit. Lets not get into yet an other license discussion on the list here, not the right list. -- http://blog.softwaresafety.net/ http://www.designer-iii.com/ http://www.wearablesmartsensors.com/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA interview with DJ at DevCon
KiCad is KiCad of course. Sadly, 3D view crashes when launched here, some kind of X11 / GLX / GL problem. I was trying to debug it and fix it for them (in the spirit of cooperation), but it looks like it might be some nasty WxWidgets internal bug - and I'm not familiar with Wx at all. I've got a lot of experience with wxWidgets, I even have my name in the wxBook by Julian Smart the wxWidgets (known as wxWindows when he started the project, until Micro$oft threatened to sue him). The standard reply to bug reports bug reports is Recreate the problem in the Minimal Sample and send us a patch and a back trace. I went through this cycle yesterday so you can see an example here: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lib.wxwindows.general/71265 The Minimal Sample is the smallest possible meaning for wx program you can create, a kind of 'Hello World' for wx. The two most common problems in wx are people trying to manipulate the GUI from other threads. This can not be done, you most post events to the GUI thread. This is not wx specific actually, just a general lack of understanding of how the underling system of Windows is not thread safe in many cases. The other common problem that causes a lot of crashes, mostly on exit, is to delete a dialog or a frame rather than 'destroy' it. If there are pending events meant for the dialog/frame that has been deleted, wx crashes, rather than assigning them to oblivion. I've never understood that part of the base design myself. Most other crashes are the type you see far to often, like buffer overflows, using deleted memory; the standard security risk stuff that doesn't get enough attention in the drive to ship code fast. Also note the comments under DJ's Video, how they most all complain about the lack of Windows version, even quoting the gEDA site saying Windows was not the focuses of the project. The focus of the project is getting work done to make shippable products, or education usage. The Tools to make Tools philosophy should have died a long time ago. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: KiCad's polygon library
On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 1:44 PM, Peter Clifton pc...@cam.ac.uk wrote: Speaking of KiCad (and its source), I noticed they've found a GPL polygon boolean operations library which I'd not come across before. Have you looked at the new one in Boost 1.4.4? http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_44_0/libs/polygon/doc/index.htm It looks like it has a neat solution to the snap-rounding / topology changing problem, which treats points which nearly touch as being coincident. Seems neat. Is this the same as the ' Welding Vertices' problem? Collapsing near points into a single polygon? ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA interview with DJ at DevCon
On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 6:58 PM, Peter Clifton pc...@cam.ac.uk wrote: On Thu, 2010-10-28 at 13:58 -0400, Bob Paddock wrote: KiCad is KiCad of course. Sadly, 3D view crashes when launched here, some kind of X11 / GLX / GL problem. I was trying to debug it and fix it for them (in the spirit of cooperation), but it looks like it might be some nasty WxWidgets internal bug - and I'm not familiar with Wx at all. The standard reply to bug reports bug reports is Recreate the problem in the Minimal Sample and send us a patch and a back trace. I went through this cycle yesterday so you can see an example here: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lib.wxwindows.general/71265 Thanks.. its actually kind of a neat idea, although potentially quite frustrating. Presumably they will accept triage / insight from a bug even if it isn't demonstrated in a minimal sample though? A patch to the Minimal Sample generally gets an immediate response, and frequently an immediate fix. Anything else gets one of the following: A) Demonstrate the problem in the Minimal Sample. B) Yes, looks like you found a bug, please debug it, and tell us how to fix it with a patch. C) Yes, you found a problem, but I'm [not me] to busy to fix it right now, please create a bug report on the Patch Tracker. D) Do this: [something] and it will fix your problem. #7 0x00316a2b in wxGLCanvas::SwapBuffers() () from /usr/lib/libwx_gtk2u_gl-2.8.so.0 #8 0x082a5f3e in Pcb3D_GLCanvas::Redraw(bool) () #9 0x0829f8e4 in Pcb3D_GLCanvas::OnPaint(wxPaintEvent) () #10 0x00890c2f in wxAppConsole::HandleEvent(wxEvtHandler*, void (wxEvtHandler::*)(wxEvent), wxEvent) const () from /usr/lib/libwx_baseu-2.8.so.0 I don't understand whythis is AppConsole from wxBase. I'd expect AppGUI. Also you want to be using 2.8.11. 2.9.x is not ready for usage yet. However.. I fear that active discussion and debugging of KiCad bugs is a little OT for the geda-user list. I'd love to know what the problem was though, so I could play with the KiCad 3D viewer and get a feel for what is good / bad about it, and help inspire my own 3D efforts. Perhaps, but its been on my To Do list for a long time to do a wxWidgets port of PCB. Take a look at this project for some example GL code in wxWidgets: http://code.google.com/p/toped/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA interview with DJ at DevCon
Does this count... http://wiki.wxwidgets.org/WxGLCanvas Proably not. This would be the best place: http://docs.wxwidgets.org/trunk/page_samples.html#page_samples_opengl Bugs found in trunk get a lot more attention. And it dies a horrible death with the same error. (wxFrame *) NULL doesn't really make any sense, but it should not cause a problem. Nothing else at the wiki jumped out at me. I'll try to make some time on the weekend to try and build the sample. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA interview with DJ at DevCon
On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 1:03 PM, DJ Delorie d...@delorie.com wrote: It was a slight shame the video started with an advert clip showing Altium's 3D view in action. Dave works for Altium :-) That explains something that I did not understand at Devcon. Dave kept trying to bring up a picture of Nick Martin, the founder of Altium, to show me, but because of poor connectivity there he could never get it. He kept telling me that I looked like Nick. Click on his link here to see picture: http://www.altium.com/company/management-team/en/management-team_home.cfm I thought Nick's picture looked like my dad actually, but my wife agrees with Dave. DJ, what do you think, as we spent a lot of time together there? -- http://blog.softwaresafety.net/ http://www.designer-iii.com/ http://www.wearablesmartsensors.com/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: pcb crooked traces
Then Armin can have his long long, I can have my doubles, some can have their int64_t, and most can have their simple int. Sounds like a support nightmare in the making. uint_fast32_t http://www.dinkumware.com/manuals/?manual=compleatpage=stdint.html#uint_fast32_t With a compiler that properly implements 'fast' it gets what you want. 32bits on 32 bit machine, 64bits on a 64bit machine, 128bits on a 128bit machine etc. In the Windows world today there is usually the choice of downloading a 32bit or a 64bit program implementation. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: pcb crooked traces
Once you get past the 52 digits in an IEEE-754 double How would such numbers be represented in a file? One of gEDA/PCB's strengths is they are easy to script. Scripting (u)ints seems a lot easier. -- http://blog.softwaresafety.net/ http://www.designer-iii.com/ http://www.wearablesmartsensors.com/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: pcb crooked traces
Personally, I can't imagine a PCB larger than 2 meters much less 4 meters. Or is the possibility of uses other than PCB design being considered here? Someone once asked about doing a road bill-board sized sign. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Concerns in Cleaning Under Low Profile Components at SMTAI 2010
Anyone here going to this event?: http://www.globalsmt.net/smt/index.php?option=com_contentview=articleid=11580Itemid=396 See Kyzen’s Rich Brooks Discuss Concerns in Cleaning Under Low Profile Components at SMTAI 2010 SMTA International, scheduled to take place October 25-28, 2010 at the Walt Disney World. Would like to know what Mr. Brooks has to say. The complete cleaning and removal of flux/soil residues under low profile components is becoming more critical, especially as the conductor spacings are decreasing and the power is increasing. If the residues are not completely removed, then the reliability of the circuit can be greatly affected. It is the combination of these technologies that make the cleaning process extremely difficult. Therefore, the cleaning process must be carefully examined and optimized to obtain maximum performance for removing the flux residues. During the cleaning process, the cleaning chemistry must wet, dissolve, penetrate the flux dam and flow under the component to adequately remove all flux residues. This paper will review the cleaning problems brought about with the implementation of the latest technologies and explain how the cleaning process can be optimized to guarantee the reliability of the assemblies. Cleaning under QFN, and like, packages is still an industry wide problem, especially when you are running off batteries and need low leakage currents. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: new footprint guidelines
On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 9:56 AM, Rick Collins gnuarm.2...@arius.com wrote: They [Assembly houses] seem to be willing to work with whatever they are sent and will only give feedback when something causes real trouble for them. You have to ask, unfortunately. When you send a new project in to a house, ask to talk to the people on the line, about what would make the design better. Don't let the sales department give the no problem answer based on the customer is always right idea. Talk to the people doing the work. If you are making only a few boards the unspoken problems don't really mater that much, but if you are making any kind of quantity of boards it could mater a lot in the bottom line pricing you'd get from the assembly house. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: foreign graphics overlay
On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 4:02 PM, Armin Faltl armin.fa...@aon.at wrote: Dreaming about mechanical cad features in pcb and how one best works to mechanical constrains on a pcb, knowing the latest and greates pcb use OpenGL and transparency anyway, http://code.google.com/p/toped/ is an IC Layout Editor that puts the transparency to good use, as an example. Alas there are no screen shots in the project to show how it would apply to PCB. how about providing a plugin-mechanism, that allows to render DXF, SVG,..., bitmaps of common types and such on a non-functional translucent foreign layer? Add to the Wish List for 4.00 a standard plug-in mechanism. For example DynObj : http://banjo.assembla.com/wiki/show/FileWorkbench/DynObj_Generic_Interfaces -- http://blog.softwaresafety.net/ http://www.designer-iii.com/ http://www.wearablesmartsensors.com/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: foreign graphics overlay
There are screen shots two in Chitlesh's page on fedora.org: http://chitlesh.fedorapeople.org/FEL/gallery.html Thank you. What does the tope GUI differently to Peter Cliftons semi forked version of pcb? I've not run Peter's version so can't really comment. I'm all to slowly poking at a version of PCB written in wxWidgets, and the tope project is a good place for example OpenGL code as used in wxWidgets. What is the benefit of plug-ins for this kind of infrastructure? IMHO, support of different image formats should be part of the main distribution. Someone, some place, in the future will want to support something that none of us have ever heard of today. If there is a easy, well documented, Plug-In system, then they can implement what they need without having to figure out the internals of PCB. Also Plug-Ins make it harder for various sections of code to interact, by design, to give a better separation of concerns. The Humble Dialog Box paper might explain it a bit better than I'm doing. http://www.objectmentor.com/resources/articles/TheHumbleDialogBox.pdf As that paper deals some with testing, I thought I'd mention that James Grenning is giving a three day presentation on Test Driven Development in Cleveland the week after Thanksgiving for anyone in the area (is there anyone in the Pittsburgh/Cleveland area beside me?). -- http://blog.softwaresafety.net/ http://www.designer-iii.com/ http://www.wearablesmartsensors.com/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: foreign graphics overlay
Not being part of the distribution A well documented plug in should become part of the distribution. Undocumented code of any kind, should not. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Portable gEDA for Windows
The GPL is easy to comply with, but it's not always obvious how that's done. Just so I'm clear myself here, if I cross compile using Cygwin or MinW32 as far as GPL2 section 3 is concerned: However, as a special exception, the source code distributed need not include anything that is normally distributed (in either source or binary form) with the major components (compiler, kernel, and so on) of the operating system on which the executable runs, unless that component itself accompanies the executable. is concerned I do not have to archive Cygwin/MinW32 for three years? I would have to archive the source for the cygwin.dll if that ended up in the distributable binary? ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Portable gEDA for Windows
When the FSF checks for violations ( http://www.fsf.org/licensing/compliance ), they check the pages where software is distributed, and they also check the surrounding web pages (to make sure that the source isn't distributed elsewhere on the site, and there's no written offer). Why would they say this if a written offer online were insufficient? If you go the written offer route there are several ways that can make you go broke. A million people make the request. Same person makes the request every day etc. Anderson on the Uniform Commercial Code is a 34 volume set, always a fun read... ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: next PCB release - 1.99za vs 4.0
On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 12:24 AM, DJ Delorie [1...@delorie.com wrote: The top/bottom magic are needed to map footprints on import Don't over look buried components. Becoming more common. I think it would be better to just have layers, that you assign a function to, rather than have layers have magic properties. While allowing things like two Top Layers may sound silly, it is really not at the editing level. Different sections of the 'Top Layer' could be edited at different times, such as copypaste from older projects. Like layers in AutoCad or GIMP. References 1. mailto:d...@delorie.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: next PCB release - 1.99za vs 4.0
On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 12:55 AM, DJ Delorie [1...@delorie.com wrote: I suspect that in the main GUI you'd get a simplified set of options, like add layers or remove layers to switch from, say, 2-layer PCBs to 4-layer PCBs, etc. In Protel there is such a dialog. Being able to move the Z-axsis of the layer is also needed in rare cases. The complete dialog shows the whole board stack-up. Copper thickness, pre-preg thickness (insulating glop between the conductive layers). Colors, impedance's etc. are assigned at this point as well. Also if this layer is considered a 'plane'. As for the color scheme, I suspect it will be plaid. With stripes. At work where we have a couple of different Protel Seats we can take the same board file, that contains the properties such as color, from one machine to an other. What looks good color wise on one machine, is completely unusable on an other machine due to differences in monitors, video cards etc. References 1. mailto:d...@delorie.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: next PCB release - 1.99za vs 4.0
On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 1:40 AM, Jonathon Schrader jlsch...@jlschrad.net wrote: That is, a footprint (such as the battery mount mentioned previously) with a requirement not to place any parts between the tabs, but traces are fine? It would be good to be able to say place no component thicker than X in this area. Consider case clearances. Why didn't you tell me you drive a #6 bolt through the case to hold the board in place? It is not on any of the prints! :-( In the battery case here, traces on the top layer would not be allowed. Sliding the battery in and out could wear away the solder mask (which is not intended to by this type of isolator), exposing battery terminal to bare copper. Your point is still valid tho. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: next PCB release - 1.99za vs 4.0
Maybe you could add an attribute to an element defining the height. Something like: Attribute (element_height=, 5 mm) That would be required to do 3D also. There would also need to be a clearance space above the actual part thickness as well. Think about boards that are flexing/vibrating. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
