Re: gEDA-user: Why does auto-mirror mirror the bottom?
DJ Delorie wrote: I'd hate to have to second guess EVERYONE trying to use pcb and what kind of invert/mirror options they need. I like just using understandable language, and maybe tooltips for more detail. No assumptions is the best route because of all the wildly varying ways people use design tools. John G ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Why does auto-mirror mirror the bottom?
On Fri, Feb 16, 2007 at 11:11:40PM -0500, DJ Delorie wrote: Maybe the dialog should be task-oriented instead of setting-oriented. But if you can come up with a suitable scheme and a patch (it's all in src/hid/ps.c) I'm open to convincing. The current scheme, if I understand it, works like this: mirror | auto-mirror | result ---+-+--- 0 | 0 | as shown on screen 1 | 0 | all layers mirrored 0 | 1 | as if you were looking at the finished pcb 1 | 1 | suitable for toner transfer, transparencies So what about an option button that covers both bits with those descriptions? More advanced would be to produce one set suitable for an entire task. For example all 'assembly' drawings would print 'as if you were looking at the finished pcb', while copper layers would print 'suitable for toner transfer'. Then you could make and assemble a board from one print set. -- Ben Jackson AD7GD [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ben.com/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Why does auto-mirror mirror the bottom?
Ben Jackson wrote: The current scheme, if I understand it, works like this: mirror | auto-mirror | result ---+-+--- 0 | 0 | as shown on screen 1 | 0 | all layers mirrored 0 | 1 | as if you were looking at the finished pcb 1 | 1 | suitable for toner transfer, transparencies Mmmm... to be more specific, it is as if you were looking at the top and middle layers as made, but looking at the bottom layer from the back, not looking through the translucent board material. So what about an option button that covers both bits with those descriptions? It would be less confusing to have a layer name list as in your drawing, with per layer option to mirror or not. Then also, if you were still in the mood for GUI coding, offer use cases as check boxes that modify the state of the per layer check boxes, (while also showing that state). And just drop the wording auto-mirror altogether. It's more like assume-o-matic than automatic... John G ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Why does auto-mirror mirror the bottom?
The current scheme, if I understand it, works like this: mirror | auto-mirror | result ---+-+--- 0 | 0 | as shown on screen 1 | 0 | all layers mirrored 0 | 1 | as if you were looking at the finished pcb 1 | 1 | suitable for toner transfer, transparencies Yup. So what about an option button that covers both bits with those descriptions? I was thinking about this, and thinking about wording: None All Back (as seen) Front (photo/tt) but back and front would always mirror the assembly and fab drawings as seen More advanced would be to produce one set suitable for an entire task. For example all 'assembly' drawings would print 'as if you were looking at the finished pcb', while copper layers would print 'suitable for toner transfer'. Then you could make and assemble a board from one print set. Assuming you didn't need inverted coppers for photo negatives, but non-inverted silkscreen plots. The fun never ends. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Why does auto-mirror mirror the bottom?
It would be less confusing to have a layer name list as in your drawing, with per layer option to mirror or not. Then also, if you were still in the mood for GUI coding, offer use cases as check boxes that modify the state of the per layer check boxes, (while also showing that state). And just drop the wording auto-mirror altogether. It's more like assume-o-matic than automatic... I think it would get too messy to put all the options in a layer-specific grid. However, we could do something like Eagle where we have a CAM job that specifies, in excrutiating detail, what the output would be. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Why does auto-mirror mirror the bottom?
On Sat, Feb 17, 2007 at 06:02:42PM -0500, DJ Delorie wrote: I was thinking about this, and thinking about wording: None All Back (as seen) Front (photo/tt) I was totally confused by this until I realized you mean to label the resulting option mirror: so that would be mirror: none, etc, right? That would be a big improvement. BTW, while you're in there, if you check 'individual files', it should put the layer names before any trailing '.ps', otherwise you have to use 'foo.ps' when printing a single file but delete '.ps' for individual files. -- Ben Jackson AD7GD [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ben.com/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Why does auto-mirror mirror the bottom?
None All Back (as seen) Front (photo/tt) I was totally confused by this until I realized you mean to label the resulting option mirror: so that would be mirror: none, etc, right? Right. The option name is mirror and the options are as above. BTW, while you're in there, if you check 'individual files', it should put the layer names before any trailing '.ps', otherwise you have to use 'foo.ps' when printing a single file but delete '.ps' for individual files. Hmm... I'll see what I can do. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Why does auto-mirror mirror the bottom?
Why does auto-mirror mean to mirror the bottom? I just got very close to doing an iron transfer pcb with the sides reversed: if (automirror ((idx = 0 group == GetLayerGroupNumberByNumber (max_layer)) || (idx 0 SL_SIDE (idx) == SL_BOTTOM_SIDE))) mirror_this = 1 - mirror_this; For both toner transfer and for photosensitive PCBs you want the toner touching the PCB, which means the bottom image (solder side) is normal and the top (component side) is mirrored. Was the expectation to use both mirror AND automirror?? -- Ben Jackson AD7GD [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ben.com/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Why does auto-mirror mirror the bottom?
Why does auto-mirror mean to mirror the bottom? I just got very close to doing an iron transfer pcb with the sides reversed: auto-mirror is as-seen. The assumption is that you're using the prints for visual inspection. Was the expectation to use both mirror AND automirror?? Yes. If you need a reversed image (such as for toner transfer), you need to mirror and automirror. That gives you a mirrored front and a non-mirrored back. You can combine that with the invert flag to get negatives, too, for photoexposing. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Why does auto-mirror mirror the bottom?
Maybe the dialog should be task-oriented instead of setting-oriented. If I want to do toner transfer, then I want the top reversed and the bottom not, but I still want both assembly diagrams to be normal for top and reversed for bottom. I'd hate to have to second guess EVERYONE trying to use pcb and what kind of invert/mirror options they need. But if you can come up with a suitable scheme and a patch (it's all in src/hid/ps.c) I'm open to convincing. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
