Re: [Gendergap] New WikiProject Feminism Articles from WSG students

[Caroline Becker]

This is an awesome project :) I would be really interested in reading your
feedback on the experiment, both from you and your students. I'm especially
interested in knowing how you dealt with NPOV.

I think it is a nice idea to make them start on their sandbox pages,
because it allows them to be familiar with Wiki syntax before dealing with
the community. It is also nice to have them work on separate articles.

Good luck with your project and if you think one of the article is good
enough, maybe I'll find time to translate it in French :)

Caroline


2012/6/4 Kissling, Elizabeth 

> Now that there's room in the discussion for a new topic :-), I'd like to
> ask for help from some of you experienced Wikipedians in bringing a new
> group of women to the project.
>
> I'm a professor of Women's & Gender Studies, and for their senior capstone
> project, I've had a group of WSG majors students working on WP articles for
> the WikiProject Feminism. They've selected articles from the list of
> requested articles and stubs from WP:Feminism (
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Feminism), and have
> been researching, writing, and revising in their sandbox pages for the last
> few weeks. We're planning to post the articles in class today (a few make
> take a little longer, but this week for sure -- it's the last week of the
> term).
>
> It's been a wonderful experience for them, learning about how to present
> research for the Wikipedia audience compared to an academic audience, and
> to make feminist ideas accessible to larger audience, and more. It's given
> them a new appreciation of Wikipedia -- most of their professors tell them
> not to use it, so it was a big shock the first day of class when I
> announced we'd spend the quarter working on it. It's also been very
> challenging for many, especially the technical aspects of working with wiki
> markup and Wikipedia.
>
> Will those of you who volunteer in this area help shepherd them into the
> fold? I'm not expecting my students to be treated with kid gloves, but
> we've watched a few edit wars, and they're nervous. As with any group of
> students, some are stronger writers than others, and some of these pieces
> will need more help than others. Here's the list of articles that will soon
> be added/updated:
>
>
> American women's firsts
> Feminism in Thailand
> Feminism & BDSM
> Metaformic theory
> Women's shelters
> Genderfuck
> Feminist pedagogy
>
> Thank you for the work that you, and for any help you can provide to my
> students.
> --
> Elizabeth A. Kissling, Ph.D.  
> Professor
> Department of Communication Studies
> Women's and Gender Studies Program
> Eastern Washington University
> Cheney, WA  99004-2409
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Re: [Gendergap] Larry Sanger's blog post: Where is the pornography?

[Caroline Becker]

>
> The Flickr account has been closed down (usually for breach of Flickr's
> terms of service). Note that there are no 18 USC 2257 records demonstrating
> that the persons depicted were 18 or over. According to my understanding of
> US law, any Wikimedian who uploads or inserts such an image without having
> documentation of model age, name, and publication consent is in breach of
> US law; see discussion at
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Philippe_(WMF)#Implications_of_2257_record_keeping_requirements_for_editors.3F
>
> Andreas
>

Does it also apply to artwork of nude underages, such as
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Boy_playing_jonchets_by_Julien-Charles_Dubois
or
the trillion paintings with nude babies ?
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Re: [Gendergap] Larry Sanger's blog post: Should there be a Wikipedia boycott over the lack of an image filter?

[Caroline Becker]

What is the relationship with gender-gap ? Are female children more
unlikely to contribute to Wikimedia projects if they saw some porn on
Wikipedia or Commons ?

Caroline


2012/5/30 Andreas Kolbe 

> From Larry Sanger's blog:
>
> ---o0o---
>
> I want to start a conversation. [...Larry says, in his blog]
>
> I. Problem? What problem?
>
>  So, you didn’t know that Wikipedia has a porn problem?
>
> Let me say what I do not mean by “Wikipedia’s porn problem.” I do not mean
> simply that Wikipedia has a lot of porn. That’s part of the problem, but
> it’s not even the main problem. I’m 100% OK with porn sites. I defend the
> right of people to host and view porn online. I don’t even especially mind
> that Wikipedia has porn. There could be legitimate reasons why an
> encyclopedia might want to have some “adult content.”
>
> No, the real problem begins when Wikipedia features some of the most
> disgusting sorts of porn you can imagine, while being heavily used by
> children. But it’s even more complicated than that, as I’ll explain.
>
> (Note, the following was co-written by me and several other people. I
> particularly needed their help finding the links.)
>
> Here is the short version:
>
> Wikipedia and other websites of the Wikimedia Foundation (WMF) host a
> great deal of pornographic content, as well as other content not
> appropriate for children. Yet, the Wikimedia Foundation encourages children
> to use these resources. Google, Facebook, YouTube, Flickr, and many other
> high-profile sites have installed optional filters to block adult content
> from view. I believe the WMF sites should at a minimum install an optional,
> opt-in filter, as the WMF Board agreed to do in 2011. I understand that the
> WMF has recently stopped work on the filter and, after a period of
> community reaction, some Board members have made it clear that they do not
> expect this filter to be finished and installed. Wikipedians, both managers
> and rank-and-file, apparently do not have enough internal motivation to do
> the responsible thing for their broad readership.
>
> But even that is too brief. If you really want to appreciate Wikipedia’s
> porn problem, I’m afraid you’re going to have to read the following.
>
>
> http://larrysanger.org/2012/05/what-should-we-do-about-wikipedias-porn-problem/
>
> Feel free to repost!
>
> ---o0o---
>
> There is further discussion of this, with Larry in attendance, on
> Wikipediocracy.com:
>
> http://wikipediocracy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=429
>
> Note that the related thread is in the "Sexualisation" subforum, which is
> only accessible to registered Wikipediocracy members. Registration is free
> though, and anyone wishing to have a look is welcome to join up and
> participate!
>
> http://wikipediocracy.com/forum/
>
> Best,
> Andreas
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Article "Cumshot" in English and German Wikipedia

[Caroline Becker]

Can we please focus on the idea and facts instead of (in)appropriate tones ?

I think that trying a professional "Wiki Loves Women" before even trying to
do it as a crownfounded, volunteer project is, as least, strange. It makes
me sad, as a volunteer photographer, to be "forgotten" or taken for nothing.

I'd like to know what can be done, what has already be tried, what worked
and didn't work. If projects like
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sarahdarkmagic/prismatic-art-collection?ref=live
has
many backers from this list. In one word, to focus on projects and actions.


Caroline


2012/5/6 Emily Monroe 

> Of course, that's inappropriate and rude. So were you, but we all know
> that you know better.
>
> From,
> Emily
>
>
>
> On Sun, May 6, 2012 at 12:43 PM, Béria Lima wrote:
>
>> This is highly inappropriate:
>> http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Beria&diff=3706794&oldid=3691439(at
>>  that is just the last one, I can give you both a pile bigger than the
>> Everest)
>>
>> And none of you are seing me complain about it. A single mail with irony
>> and you run around claiming misogyny and rudeness? As the meme says: Bitch,
>> please
>> !
>> _
>> *Béria Lima*
>>
>> *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter
>> livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a
>> construir esse sonho. *
>>
>>
>> On 6 May 2012 14:35, Emily Monroe  wrote:
>>
>>> Excuse me, Beria, but I agree that your tone is, in fact,
>>> highly inappropriate.
>>>
>>> From,
>>> Emily
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, May 6, 2012 at 12:32 PM, Béria Lima wrote:
>>>
 Sarah, until i tell you to "fuck off" I'm being respectful to you.
 Actually the simple meaning of taking time in my volunteer, no paid work as
 a wikimedian to answer your mail show I respect you.

 To your idea: Ever heard of OTRS system? I'm sure with all your "work"
 for GLAM you already did, so if you have some image you want in commons ask
 them to release in a compatible license.

 HIRE someone to take pictures for us is a very idiotic idea, with the
 full amount of great photographers who take pictures for free to upload on
 commons, even more, hire the models as well can almost qualify as the most
 idiot idea ever.

 I do believe in volunteer work Sarah, which is the basis of our wiki
 way. Try to get something by paying people to do where you simply don't
 know if can be done by volunteers - since no one ever asked - is, in my
 humble opinion, stupid.
 _
 *Béria Lima*

 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter
 livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a
 construir esse sonho. *


 On 6 May 2012 14:24, Sarah Stierch  wrote:

>  On 5/6/12 1:20 PM, Béria Lima wrote:
>
> Good idea Sarah. Prove everyone in the world we don't even have enough
> woman in the 9% of editors who can take a picture of some "trivial" thing.
> Prove the world the only way to have picture of girls in commons is hiring
> models and photographers to take them.
>
> I have NO idea why no one thought of this before!
>
>
> Beria, I'd appreciate a more respectful tone. As always, with me, and
> anyone else on this list. The snarkiness of your comment isn't one to make
> me want to participate or share my brainstorms or ideas on this list.
>
> Just because you disagree with my idea, doesn't mean others might find
> value in it, and it might improve content. Not every woman wants to edit
> Wikipedia and I have met women who are photographers who have expressed
> interest in uploading photographs and also women who would rather
> participate as volunteers to be photographed. Using the term model does 
> not
> necessarily mean traditional "model body types" of women. Anyone can be a
> model if you put them in front of a camera.
>
> Again, please be a bit more polite in your responses on this list. I
> know I'm not the only person who would appreciate that. Thank you,
>
> -Sarah
>
>
>
> _
> *Béria Lima*
>
> *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de
> ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos
> a construir esse sonho. *
>
>
> On 6 May 2012 14:13, Sarah Stierch  wrote:
>
>>  On 5/6/12 1:07 PM, Carol Moore DC wrote:
>>
>> On 5/2/2012 9:39 PM, Andreas Kolbe wrote:
>>
>>
>> Don't miss
>> http://thehairpin.com/2011/01/women-laughing-alone-with-salad
>>
>>
>>  Where are women laughing as they chop up bloody sausage...
>>
>> To me I guess I see hostility and domina

[Gendergap] Bias regarding male and female nudity in art

[Caroline Becker]

I looked at all the pictures I took at the museum of Fine Arts of Angers
(France), since I still have all of them on my hard drive while the ones I
took at Rennes are both on my hard drive and on Commons servers. I
actually realized, at least concerning Angers, that they were an almost
equal displaying of male and female tits (my mesure of "partial nudity"),
at least for adults. One painting even shows a "fully" clothed woman with
three almost nude
men.
(the meta data / description part is crappy, I'll fixed it "tomorrow",
meaning in eight hours).

Thank you Wikimedia movement, I was not creepy enougth with always thinking
"Category:women facing right in red dresses" while visiting a museum, now I
will count male vs female tits :D

Caroline
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Re: [Gendergap] Article "Cumshot" in English and German Wikipedia

[Caroline Becker]

The problem is, we live in a biased world where you can find much, much
more female nudity in fine art musem than male nudity. I'm currently
post-treating and uploading pictures from the Museum of Fine Arts of Rennes
(France) and the only naked male body is a sculpture of a boy/young
teenager playing, while they are lot of naked women, both in sculpture and
paintings. Half-naked men are more often corpses than sexy budies.  (If you
want I can create a gallery with all artworks showing naked or half-naked
women).

What can I do with that ? Not uploaded pictures of artworks with naked
women ? Working harder to have awesome pictures of artworks with naked men
?

Caroline


2012/5/2 Pete Forsyth 

> It seems strange to talk about "Featured Pictured Candidates" as though it
> is a process, or talk about "bias" -- from what I could discern when I
> looked into it last time around, it's basically a system that lets anybody
> promote their own work, as long as they know how to jump through a couple
> pretty straightforward hoops and wait a few months.
>
> I still think that simply, clearly, *documenting* the process in a
> practical sense would be a useful first step toward thinking up and
> building interest in a more refined system. Until somebody puts in the
> effort to do something like that, we're going to continue to see weird
> entries on the front page of Commons (and many other projects that use
> Commons' front page image on their own front page) simply because one
> person took the initiative to make it happen.
>
> Not because the "community" at Commons made a bad decision. The
> "community" didn't make a decision at all.
>
> -Pete
>
>
> On May 1, 2012, at 10:23 PM, Ryan Kaldari wrote:
>
> > Speaking of gender and nudity, it seems the bias towards female nudity
> at en.wiki's Featured Picture Candidates is still as strong as ever. And
> check out the quality comments at
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_picture_candidates/The_Pearl_and_the_Wave
> >
> > After you guys are finished photographing your all-male cumshots, maybe
> you could find some nice nude male art to nominate at Featured Picture
> Candidates. Too bad Robert Mapplethorpe is still copyrighted.
> >
> > Ryan Kaldari
> >
> > On 4/28/12 12:17 AM, Paolo Massa wrote:
> >> If you are curious about the images used in the same article on other
> >> language editions of Wikipedia you can use Manypedia.
> >> For the page "Cumshot", it seems currently the same image is used on
> >> all language editions, while the Spanish one uses one more image
> >> http://www.manypedia.com/#|en|Cumshot|es
> >> and the Japanese a different additional one.
> >> http://www.manypedia.com/#|en|Cumshot|ja
> >>
> >> Of course this is not to say that if all language editions of
> >> Wikipedia represent the same concept using the same images, this is
> >> the best way of representing it. But at least you can appreciate
> >> differences in representations of different language communities.
> >> For example see the page Underwear on English and Arabic Wikipedia,
> >> http://www.manypedia.com/#|en|Underwear|ar
> >>
> >> Hope it helps.
> >>
> >> On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 3:42 AM, Emily Monroe
>  wrote:
> >>> I'm not sure the technical term for it either, but the laymen's term is
> >>> female ejactulation. *shrugs*
> >>>
> >>> From,
> >>> Emily
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 8:39 PM, Carol Moore DC<
> carolmoor...@verizon.net>
> >>> wrote:
>  On 4/27/2012 3:45 PM, Andreas Kolbe wrote:
> 
>  I could have a go again, Carol.>:)
> 
>  Gay porn is underrepresented in these articles.
> 
>  Andreas
> 
>  So if I was too implicit in my statement. As Andreas surmised, I meant
>  re-do that photo to make it male on male. Or do a second one that's
> male on
>  male.  Go for it!
> 
>  As for female "ejaculation" since ejaculation is putting out sperm, I
>  don't think women do it.
> 
>  Women obviously -- geez, I don't what you call it besides "get wet."
> And
>  maybe orgasms squeeze some of it out an orifice. But I don't think
> that's
>  ejaculation.  But I do now know I don't what the technical terms are
> or if
>  there are any!!
> 
>  CM
> 
> 
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> >>>
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> >>
> >>
> >
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> petefors...@gmail.com
> 503-383-9454 mobile
>
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Article "Cumshot" in English and German Wikipedia

[Caroline Becker]

+1 Béria.

Caroline


2012/4/27 Béria Lima 

> Katrin, I hate to be captain obvious here, but: Do you know that "cun
> shot" is a porn related term right? Only used in Porn related articles (see
> related 
> articles)?
> And that what is in the article isn't a picture, but a illustration?
>
> I do agreed when people complained about the naked gardening article and
> pic, because isn't a sex related article. But this IS a sex related
> article, not only, this one is a PORN related article. Is not like someone
> will fall there accidentally by looking for Jesus or Santa. Therefore, I
> don't see the reason to censor the article.
>  
> *Béria Lima*
> *
> Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter
> livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a
> construir esse sonho. *
>
>
> On 27 April 2012 08:51, Katrin Rönicke  wrote:
>
>> **
>> Hey everybody,
>>
>> a friend of mine sent me a notice: the Wikipedia article "Cumshot" has a
>> picture which in my humble opinion is nothing else than pornography. once
>> again.
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumshot
>>
>> I already tried to delete it from the German Wikipedia - but its being
>> restored immediately ...
>> there has already been a great discussion about it in the German
>> Wikipedia (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diskussion:Cumshot) and its the
>> usual thing: moralty, a narrowed mind and everything is being used against
>> critics of the picture...
>> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diskussion:Cumshot
>> its almost the same in the English Wikipedia:
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Cum_shot arguing you need to have it,
>> because it's an encyclopedia - to me seems really bizarre.
>>
>> I really doubt, that there is ANY need for a picture in articles like
>> this one.
>> I really doubt if there is ANY need of the article... but I would be able
>> to get along with it. accept it. especially if it has - like the English
>> one has, the German one not - a more deeper view of the intellectual
>> discussion, like the critique of Dworkin und the answer of Moore. (And I
>> really like to have this in the German Wikipedia too - when i find the
>> time, I'm going to edit it).
>>
>> So what do you think could be done, that articles like this are not seen
>> as an invitation and perfect explanation for using pornographic pictures...
>> ?
>>
>> Maybe we can come back to some points Sue Gardner made several Months ago
>> (talking about the picture of the naked woman in the pregnancy article):
>> What are the quality-rules we want to have for Wikipedia, to make it an
>> encyclopedia? what kind of picturing does a good encyclopedia need - which
>> not?
>>
>> Maybe the best way of discussing such issues really is from a neutral
>> point of view and generally discussed for all kinds of pictures - not only
>> those few pornographic examples.
>>
>> Katrin
>>
>> ---
>>  mailto:kat...@fraulila.de 
>> Frau Lila - Feministische Initiative 
>> Katrin-Roenicke.de 
>> Meine Kolumne beim Freitag 
>>
>> Hilfskraft am Lehrstuhl für Politische 
>> Theorie
>>
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Re: [Gendergap] World Naked Gardening Day

[Caroline Becker]

The image was not of someone gardening naked. It was a sexy picture of a
very attractive young woman. Just imagine the same picture with the woman
fully clothed and ask yourself if this picture would illustrate a general
article about gardening. If I had to take a picture to illustrate naked
gardening, I would have ask the model to bend her knees (because it is much
more confortable) and I would have taken the picture from the opposite
angle, with a focus one her hands which is actually the part of her body
she uses to garden (or maybe there is a way to garden with one's vulva my
grandparents never teached me of).

If you're still no convinced, just compare with
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naked_hiking : people on the picture are
hiking, not sexy posing while pretending to hike.

Caroline


2012/4/7 Carol Moore DC 

> On 4/7/2012 10:35 AM, Bob Sponge wrote:
>
>> welcome to censorpedia
>>
>> we fight probalbly sexism with our own middle-age-view on the world
>>
>> and oppress any non appreciated right for free expression
>>
>> than we told the critics idiots
>>
>>
>>  The photo is obviously more about a sexy and stimulating phyical stance
> taken by a naked female than about illustrating the article's point. Just
> like a picture emphasizing an erect penis would be. There's a difference
> between censorship and avoiding prurient WP:Undue.
>
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Photo accreditation for the Lesbian Spring in Toulouse (France)

[Caroline Becker]

Thanks for all your help, but the new review and the whole en-wikinews
policy feels really alien to me. The next reportings I'll do of the Lesbian
Spring will be thus in French only.

Caroline


2012/4/2 Tom Morris 

> Caroline,
>
> I've responded on the talk page with some further advice on how to do OR
> notes. Pi zero is giving you accurate advice about Wikinews original
> research publishing.
>
> --
> Tom Morris
> 
>
>
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Photo accreditation for the Lesbian Spring in Toulouse (France)

[Caroline Becker]

I've written a Wikinews article about the first event :
http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Lauch_of_the_15th_Lesbian_String_in_Toulouse,_France
,
but since I'm a Wikinews newbie I really need help from more experienced
contributors. A checking of my English would also be really nice :)

Caroline


2012/3/31 Caroline Becker 

> Hi everyone :)
>
> I'm very pleased to announce that I have a photo accreditation for the Lesbian
> Spring in Toulouse <http://www.bagdam.org/printemps012.html> (link in
> French), a month-long event celebrating Lesbian culture. The events are :
>
>- tonight, a meeting with Lesbian comic book authors
>- Friday 6th, a meeting with a biograph of Gertrude 
> Stein<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gertrude_Stein>
>- Friday 20th, a meeting with Ulrike 
> Ottinger<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulrike_Ottinger> with
>a screening of  *Dorian Gray im Spiegel der Boulevardpresse* (Dorian
>Gray in the Mirror of the Yellow Press)
>- Saturday, 21rst, screening of two documentaries : one about general
>sexism and homophobia, the other one about Lesbian women in South Africa 
> by Zanele
>Muholi <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zanele_Muholi>
>- Sunday 22nd, screening of the first season of
>http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_V (link in Spanish)
>- Thursday 26th, meeting between deaf and hearing women, both in
>French and French Sign language
>- Friday 27th, premiere of a locally-made movie about expressing the
>lesbian desire
>- Saturday 28, screening of five short films and a "lesbian market"
>
> As you can see it's a pretty awesome festival :) I hope I'll bring looot
> of pictures and contacts :)
>
> Caroline
>
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[Gendergap] Photo accreditation for the Lesbian Spring in Toulouse (France)

[Caroline Becker]

Hi everyone :)

I'm very pleased to announce that I have a photo accreditation for the Lesbian
Spring in Toulouse  (link in
French), a month-long event celebrating Lesbian culture. The events are :

   - tonight, a meeting with Lesbian comic book authors
   - Friday 6th, a meeting with a biograph of Gertrude
Stein
   - Friday 20th, a meeting with Ulrike
Ottinger with
   a screening of  *Dorian Gray im Spiegel der Boulevardpresse* (Dorian
   Gray in the Mirror of the Yellow Press)
   - Saturday, 21rst, screening of two documentaries : one about general
   sexism and homophobia, the other one about Lesbian women in South
Africa by Zanele
   Muholi 
   - Sunday 22nd, screening of the first season of
   http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_V (link in Spanish)
   - Thursday 26th, meeting between deaf and hearing women, both in French
   and French Sign language
   - Friday 27th, premiere of a locally-made movie about expressing the
   lesbian desire
   - Saturday 28, screening of five short films and a "lesbian market"

As you can see it's a pretty awesome festival :) I hope I'll bring looot of
pictures and contacts :)

Caroline
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Re: [Gendergap] Donkey punch

[Caroline Becker]

Poorly expressed thoughts with a feminist perspective on why I'm against
the deletion of this picture :
http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons%3ADeletion_requests%2FFile%3A%22Donkey_punch%22_%28animated%29.gif&action=historysubmit&diff=66832277&oldid=66828262


Caroline


2012/2/10 Natasha Brown 

> On 10 February 2012 01:37, Andreas K.  wrote:
>
>>  My wife pointed me to this animation a couple of days ago:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:%22Donkey_punch%22_(animated).gif
>>
>> It is/was included (there is currently edit-warring about it) in the
>> Donkey punch article in the English Wikipedia:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donkey_punch
>>
>> This has been one of the most viewed articles in Wikipedia of late, with
>> nearly 400,000 page views this last month.
>>
>> http://stats.grok.se/en/latest30/Donkey_punch
>>
>> Views?
>>
>>
>>
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>>
> It takes them a long time to think that the file should be deleted. It's
> true. Man are stronger than woman. I have opened a group on Facebook "Stop
> pornography on Wikipedia".
> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Stop-pornography-on-Wikipedia/307245972661745
>  --
> Natasha Brown
>
> *skype: russian_natasha *
> *natasha.br...@wikitranslate.org  **http://wikitranslate.org**
>
> Learn new language - Teach your language *
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Facebook Group re pornography on Wikipedia

[Caroline Becker]

That was irony, sorry :) I'm against image filtering and I think image
filtering has nothing to do with gender gap, so I answered with my guts
instead of my brain :(

Caroline


2012/2/2 Ryan Kaldari 

> **
> I'm not familiar with the discussion you are referring to, but I'm 100%
> sure Jimmy would never say that as it is completely antithetical to his
> position on Wikipedia editing. Do you happen to remember where you read
> that?
>
> Ryan Kaldari
>
>
> On 2/1/12 11:53 PM, Caroline Becker wrote:
>
> Yeah, and yesterday yet another "intellectual" said that Wikipedia cannot
> be trust because it is written by everyone, so Jimmy mentioned that only
> scholars will edit Wikipedia in the futur ?
>
> Caroline
>
>
> 2012/2/2 Andreas K. 
>
>> A Wikimedian has just started a Facebook page "Stop pornography on
>> Wikipedia"
>>
>>
>> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Stop-pornography-on-Wikipedia/307245972661745
>>
>>  following an earlier post by her to [[User talk:Jimbo Wales]] in
>> Wikipedia:
>>
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Jimbo_Wales&oldid=474195137#The_animated_gif_file_of_a_man_mastrubating_is_in_a_public_domain._Do_we_need_it_in_public_domain.3F
>>
>>  Jimmy mentioned that the image filter is on the agenda of this week's
>> board meeting again.
>>
>>  Andreas
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Gendergap] Statistics about gender gap

[Caroline Becker]

Don't be depress Sarah if female participation remains low. Even if
Wikipedia was a perfect place without any bias, it would still be a project
from the "real world" were lot of forces prevent women from editing : lower
confidence in themselves, less free time, lower access to education.

We can't change the world, juste make our small environnement a little less
unjust.

Caroline


2012/2/2 John Vandenberg 

> On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 11:05 AM, emijrp  wrote:
> > 2012/2/2 Sarah Stierch 
> >>...
> >> What else are people seeing in their chosen languages that might be
> >> interesting? Anything surprising?
> >>
> >
> > No. Only a few examples where women are 15-25% of edits some days but in
> > small Wikipedias or sister projects. They are not representative.
>
> I think (hope..) you might find a high female participate rate even if
> you aggregate across all of the Wikisource projects.
>
> --
> John Vandenberg
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Facebook Group re pornography on Wikipedia

[Caroline Becker]

Yeah, and yesterday yet another "intellectual" said that Wikipedia cannot
be trust because it is written by everyone, so Jimmy mentioned that only
scholars will edit Wikipedia in the futur ?

Caroline


2012/2/2 Andreas K. 

> A Wikimedian has just started a Facebook page "Stop pornography on
> Wikipedia"
>
> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Stop-pornography-on-Wikipedia/307245972661745
>
> following an earlier post by her to [[User talk:Jimbo Wales]] in Wikipedia:
>
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Jimbo_Wales&oldid=474195137#The_animated_gif_file_of_a_man_mastrubating_is_in_a_public_domain._Do_we_need_it_in_public_domain.3F
>
> Jimmy mentioned that the image filter is on the agenda of this week's
> board meeting again.
>
> Andreas
>
>
>
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Re: [Gendergap] [cultural-partners] WikiWomenCamp: National perspectives on women and the movement (x-posted, apologies)

[Caroline Becker]

Yeah me for sending a personnal mail to the whole list :)

Caroline


2012/2/1 Caroline Becker 

> Hi, this is a personnal mail (not on the gender-gap list).
>
> "two of the most famous pop stars in the world, at least in the US.)" is
> a really, really funny sentence :) Either they are famous "in the world",
> ie not only in the US, or "in the US" so not "in the world" :)
>
> Again, this is funny, not a horrible mistake of yours :)
>
> Caroline
>
>
> 2012/2/1 Sarah Stierch 
>
>>  Laura - Thanks for asking for more contributions. I was wondering what
>> was going on, since the project has seemed a bit quiet lately! Glad to know
>> it's catching steam again. I made some edits a few months ago to the US
>> section.  (See comments below)
>>
>>
>> On 2/1/12 5:18 AM, Lodewijk wrote:
>>
>> Perhaps it would be helpful if you could add some explanation why you are
>> collecting this information, what you want to make clear. Because as I
>> explained before to you privately (and I see nothing has changed) at least
>> for the Netherlands the stats that have been put up are almost hilarious.
>> Lots of percentages, but every Dutch person will be able to tell you that
>> many of them are of no meaning (Ripuarian is not a language spoken at any
>> significant level in the Netherlands, Zealandic is considered mainly a
>> dialect and has 1 admin, of course there are no Dutch women in the enwiki
>> arbcom, because to my best knowledge there are no Dutch people in there at
>> all at this moment, and I would wonder why there are no Dutch female admins
>> on the Portuguese Wikinews...) I am not sure if it is just me, but reading
>> this page (
>> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WikiWomenCamp/FAQ/Perspectives/Netherlands )
>> I would almost think that this is a parody of something - I can't tell if
>> it is the same in other countries.
>>
>>
>> I've also been highly confused by these statistics. It confused me so
>> much that I acted boldy and removed them from the United States section.
>> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WikiWomenCamp/FAQ/Perspectives#United_States
>> When I started to see information on how there were no Portuguese women
>> involved in Algerian Wikipedia I was like "why would there be? and is this
>> information here?"
>>
>> I rewrote the majority of the section to just discuss women's roles in
>> the United States - at WMF, as fellows, as researchers, as Wikimedians and
>> active editors, etc. I created a list of people who are active US
>> Wikimedians who are known to be women (didn't want to make assumptions
>> about anyone) and some of the cool things they've been doing. Of course,
>> these are limited to people I know, so I hope others are added (as someone
>> did me). I also removed the "US related on Wikipedia" in regards to the
>> subject matter (which was added back). I wasn't really sure why netball
>> would be featured because it's not popular in America at all, so to me it
>> doesn't really tell us anything, but it's not popular. Same with roller
>> derby. (But other women's sports aren't discussed?) So I guess if someone
>> has interest in discussing American women's sports, this area has room for
>> expansion, or IMHO removal. And the list of popular biographies makes sense
>> - Amy Winehouse died when this data was retrieved and I'm sure her
>> popularity has been replaced. And it's no surprise that "someone from
>> Barbados" is in the top 10 - it's Rhianna, and same for Nicki Minaj (two of
>> the most famous pop stars in the world, at least in the US.)  I just don't'
>> think this shows much about women who contribute to Wikipedia except that
>> people of all genders like reading articles about pop stars and media
>> frenzies.
>>
>> I'm more curious about how women are active and what women are doing. Who
>> are planning events, have those been successes? Are people being hired by
>> Wiki companies? (Not just Wikimedia.) What is participation like regarding
>> women and other Wiki websites? (This conference is about that right, not
>> just Wikimedia?). Sadly I can't gather data on those, nor do I know how,
>> but it would be cool to know what the most popular Wiki's are for women and
>> so forth.
>>
>>
>>  I am sure your intentions are good though, so perhaps it would be
>> helpful to state somewhere what kind of information you're looking for that
>> is *really* informative, and get rid 

Re: [Gendergap] [cultural-partners] WikiWomenCamp: National perspectives on women and the movement (x-posted, apologies)

[Caroline Becker]

Hi, this is a personnal mail (not on the gender-gap list).

"two of the most famous pop stars in the world, at least in the US.)" is a
really, really funny sentence :) Either they are famous "in the world", ie
not only in the US, or "in the US" so not "in the world" :)

Again, this is funny, not a horrible mistake of yours :)

Caroline


2012/2/1 Sarah Stierch 

>  Laura - Thanks for asking for more contributions. I was wondering what
> was going on, since the project has seemed a bit quiet lately! Glad to know
> it's catching steam again. I made some edits a few months ago to the US
> section.  (See comments below)
>
>
> On 2/1/12 5:18 AM, Lodewijk wrote:
>
> Perhaps it would be helpful if you could add some explanation why you are
> collecting this information, what you want to make clear. Because as I
> explained before to you privately (and I see nothing has changed) at least
> for the Netherlands the stats that have been put up are almost hilarious.
> Lots of percentages, but every Dutch person will be able to tell you that
> many of them are of no meaning (Ripuarian is not a language spoken at any
> significant level in the Netherlands, Zealandic is considered mainly a
> dialect and has 1 admin, of course there are no Dutch women in the enwiki
> arbcom, because to my best knowledge there are no Dutch people in there at
> all at this moment, and I would wonder why there are no Dutch female admins
> on the Portuguese Wikinews...) I am not sure if it is just me, but reading
> this page (
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WikiWomenCamp/FAQ/Perspectives/Netherlands )
> I would almost think that this is a parody of something - I can't tell if
> it is the same in other countries.
>
>
> I've also been highly confused by these statistics. It confused me so much
> that I acted boldy and removed them from the United States section.
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WikiWomenCamp/FAQ/Perspectives#United_States
> When I started to see information on how there were no Portuguese women
> involved in Algerian Wikipedia I was like "why would there be? and is this
> information here?"
>
> I rewrote the majority of the section to just discuss women's roles in the
> United States - at WMF, as fellows, as researchers, as Wikimedians and
> active editors, etc. I created a list of people who are active US
> Wikimedians who are known to be women (didn't want to make assumptions
> about anyone) and some of the cool things they've been doing. Of course,
> these are limited to people I know, so I hope others are added (as someone
> did me). I also removed the "US related on Wikipedia" in regards to the
> subject matter (which was added back). I wasn't really sure why netball
> would be featured because it's not popular in America at all, so to me it
> doesn't really tell us anything, but it's not popular. Same with roller
> derby. (But other women's sports aren't discussed?) So I guess if someone
> has interest in discussing American women's sports, this area has room for
> expansion, or IMHO removal. And the list of popular biographies makes sense
> - Amy Winehouse died when this data was retrieved and I'm sure her
> popularity has been replaced. And it's no surprise that "someone from
> Barbados" is in the top 10 - it's Rhianna, and same for Nicki Minaj (two of
> the most famous pop stars in the world, at least in the US.)  I just don't'
> think this shows much about women who contribute to Wikipedia except that
> people of all genders like reading articles about pop stars and media
> frenzies.
>
> I'm more curious about how women are active and what women are doing. Who
> are planning events, have those been successes? Are people being hired by
> Wiki companies? (Not just Wikimedia.) What is participation like regarding
> women and other Wiki websites? (This conference is about that right, not
> just Wikimedia?). Sadly I can't gather data on those, nor do I know how,
> but it would be cool to know what the most popular Wiki's are for women and
> so forth.
>
>
>  I am sure your intentions are good though, so perhaps it would be
> helpful to state somewhere what kind of information you're looking for that
> is *really* informative, and get rid of the non-relevant parts? I would say
> that the semi-automated adding of information isn't exactly helpful in at
> least the Dutch case - again, I can't vouch for other countries. Some
> information *is* interesting (interest ratios on Facebook or other external
> websites) and it would be a waste if that gets discarded because of the
> irrelevance of the rest of the page.
>
>
> +1. I think this has really cool potential to focus on "original research"
> - just knowing who is doing what and sharing that information. I took the
> time on the US section to not only celebrate who is doing what, but,
> opportunities that women have been given in the movement in the US. I
> wanted people to see what women were doing in the United States, not what
> they *aren't* doing. We already know the st

Re: [Gendergap] International Women's History Month

[Caroline Becker]

Hi,

This is a great idea :) We can try to have a female-related article in the
first page of wikipedias. (I've just asked for fr-wikipedia).

You're lucky to have Women's History Month, in France we have "Women's
Rights Day"', often translated in mass medias to "Woman's Day'" and, as
women, we are always told the oh so funny joke "don't do the laundry
today Leave it for tommorow". -_-"

I'll try to involve feminist organizations in the Wikipedia edition, how
writting women's history is a feminist act, etc. Anyone has the experience
of dealing with teaching NPOV to polical organizations  and if it ends well
?

Caroline


2012/1/31 Sarah Stierch 

>  Hi everyone,
>
> March 8th is International Women's History Day, however, in the US and UK
> we celebrate Women's History Month for the entire month! I'd like to know
> if anyone here, or anyone you know, will be hosting a Women's History
> editing event or event related to Wikimedia projects or women's outreach to
> celebrate.
>
> I'll be doing something in DC (date TBA) about women in science. I'm also
> hoping something can take place in Chile during GLAM-WIKI Santiago related
> to Chilean women's history.[2] There are also talks about doing something
> in NYC and Philadelphia.
>
> I'd love to see a number of events take place around the world - it can be
> as simple as an edit a thon with your friends at your house, or something
> more complex - working with a GLAM or related organizations.
>
> Please let me know if you have something planned, as I'll be developing a
> page on Wiki (not sure where yet) about it. And if you do not have
> something planned, please let me know how I can support you or help you
> plan something, even if I'm from afar! (Including swag, etc.). If you're
> concerned about funding something, there is always the option of applying
> for a WMF grant (i.e. if you want to buy a cake or something special!). I'd
> like to help anyway I can.
>
> Looking forward to hearing from my fellow gender gap-ers :)
>
> Sarah
>
>
> [1]http://nwhp.org/resourcecenter/whistoryday.php
> [2]http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Encuentro_GLAM-WIKI_Santiago_2012/en
> --
> *Sarah Stierch*
> *Wikimedia Foundation Community Fellow*
> >>Support the sharing of free knowledge around the world: donate 
> >>today
> <<
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Re: [Gendergap] Disney Princesses fun..

[Caroline Becker]

Hi, sorry for being laconic, it wasn't really polite.

I think this list should be only to discute gender-gap within wikimedia
projects overall, not general feminist subjects (nor individual
en-wikipedia articles). I think it should be nice for instance to talk
about "how to respond to sexual harassment occuring within wikimedia
projects ?" "Should we include, in language where "User (female)" "User
(male)" are differents words, different namespaces ? (Same for bureaucrats
and stewards and admins and...).

And I think this list should be international. For instance, in
fr-wikipédia, we have issues with jobs which have different names when
concerning a woman or a man. Like with "marksman" and "maskwoman". I think
this list is really not the place to discuss this, because there is lot and
lot of cultural stuff I should explain before anyone understanding the
issue. (But I talk about this issue in the report Wikimédia France wrote to
the French ministry of French and languages from France.)

I don't know if I'm clear, it's late in my timeline and I'm not use to
write in English (except for computer science reports).

Caroline


2012/1/25 Sarah Stierch 

>  Hi Caroline -
>
> What do you mean in regards to being on gender-...@wikimedia.org?
>
> I'm a fan of feminist.us as well!
>
> -Sarah
>
>
>
>
> On 1/25/12 4:07 PM, Caroline Becker wrote:
>
> Are we on gender-...@wikimedia.org or on feministe.us ?
>
>  (I love feministe.us)
>
> Caroline
>
>
> 2012/1/25 Ole Palnatoke Andersen 
>
>> which isn't really that funny.
>> George Takei posted an excellent illustration of Disney Princesses on
>> Facebook (you can also see the image at
>>
>> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-RmuZP-qViKM/TrYM8ZtFG-I/AFc/NO-hvW5Vvw8/s1600/disneyprincessparade.jpg
>> until someone removes it)..
>>
>> I reposted it. If you know me on FB, feel free to re-repost it.
>>
>> -Ole
>>
>> --
>> http://palnatoke.org * @palnatoke * +4522934588
>>
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>
>
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>
>
> --
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> *Wikimedia Foundation Community Fellow*
> >>Support the sharing of free knowledge around the world: donate 
> >>today<http://wikimediafoundation.org/w/index.php?title=WMFJA085/en/US&utm_source=WMdonate&utm_medium=sidebar&utm_campaign=20110130SB003&language=en&uselang=en&country=US&referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fwikimediafoundation.org%2Fwiki%2FHome>
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Re: [Gendergap] Disney Princesses fun..

[Caroline Becker]

Are we on gender-...@wikimedia.org or on feministe.us ?

(I love feministe.us)

Caroline


2012/1/25 Ole Palnatoke Andersen 

> which isn't really that funny.
> George Takei posted an excellent illustration of Disney Princesses on
> Facebook (you can also see the image at
>
> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-RmuZP-qViKM/TrYM8ZtFG-I/AFc/NO-hvW5Vvw8/s1600/disneyprincessparade.jpg
> until someone removes it)..
>
> I reposted it. If you know me on FB, feel free to re-repost it.
>
> -Ole
>
> --
> http://palnatoke.org * @palnatoke * +4522934588
>
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Re: [Gendergap] What Gender is Wikipedia?

[Caroline Becker]

 "but I used to think on this and wonder why all the strong, positive, and
creative words seemed to be assigned the grammatical masculine gender"

Words that are grammical feminine in French : strength (la force),
creativity (la créativité), freedom/liberty (la liberté), equality
(l'égalité), life (la vie), death (la mort), knowledge (la mort),
improvement (l'amélioration)... I don't know where your affirmation comes
from.


Caroline


2011/12/30 Johannes Rohr 

>
> Am 30.12.2011 03:13 schrieb "Sarah Stierch" :
>
> >
> > Hi folks,
> >
> > While a discussion was taking place on this list about gender neutrality
> and language, Victor (User:victorgrigas) and I were having a conversation
> about it via email. Victor decided to create a page about "what language is
> Wikipedia?"
> >
> > http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/What_Gender_Is_Wikipedia
> >
> > Hopefully you will contribute to your own and other languages.
> >
> > Interesting mention about Russian Wikipedia, it states that they refer
> to Wikipedia as a female,
>
> Sure. Same in German. In Slavic languages, most nouns ending in -a or -ya
> are female, in German, it is somewhat similar. There is absolutely nothing
> special about this. In Ukrainian, even the word for 'human' is female:
> liudyna. But I doubt that this says much about culture or society..
>
> Johannes
>
> similar to how in English we refer to ships as women.
> >
> > Aweee...even Klingon is featured }:)   (How sentimental!)
> >
> > -Sarah
> >
> >
> > --
> > Sarah Stierch
> > Wikimedia Foundation Community Fellow
> > >>Support the sharing of free knowledge around the world: donate today<<
> >
> > ___
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> > Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
> >
>
>
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Re: [Gendergap] article differentials/unnecessary drama

[Caroline Becker]

This is exactly where my problem comes from : en-wiki is not "wikipedia"
but one of many wikipedias, and wikipedias is not "Wikimedia project". Just
to illustrate how the discussion pimp vs madam is cultural-biased, in
French wikipedia, the inter-wiki for pimp is "proxénétisme" ("hustling")
and the article is gender-neutral.

It would be interesting to have stats of all wikipedias comparing, for
instance, the number of article about women scientists compared to article
about men scientists (and the same for actor/actresses,
sportmen/sportwomen).

Caroline


2011/12/26 Béria Lima 

> As far as I know, we have more than 700 projects... en.wiki can be the
> biggest, but is not the only one. And even if we changed all the articles
> in this language, would not do much for the other several million woman
> around the world. And we are trying to solve the gender gap in all the
> projects here, not only in en.wiki and not only in USA.
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Pimp

[Caroline Becker]

Hi everyone,

I'm sorry that my first post on the gender-gap list is a little mean. I'm a
wikipedia-fr admin, active member of Wikimédia France chapter and a member
of the OTRS team. Yet, since I've joined gender-gap a week early, I receive
more mails from this list than all the other lists together. I'm also not a
native English speaker, which means every mail takes me a little longer of
my time.

I thought the goal of this list was to discuss about women on wikimedia
projects and how to attract new ones. I don't think it is useful to point
out every single piece of sexism from en-wikipedia, in articles and
discussion pages, for that. Or start
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Gender_gap/en-wikipedia. I could point out
sexism comments from fr-wikipedia every day, but I'm really not sure it is
a constructive thing to do.

To come back to Madam vs Pimp, I think you either should start the
discussion there :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Sexology_and_sexuality,
or stop asking permission to create articles. If it bothers someone, she
will ask for a fusion.

Caroline (User:Léna)


2011/12/25 Sarah Stierch 

>  Hi everyone,
>
> I'm doing a bit of fiddling with some articles related to sexuality and
> came across an article about a madam [[Polly Adler]]. The word "madam" was
> linked to [[pimp]]. While the article opens mentioning that a woman who
> runs a brothel is called a madam, it's an extremely male dominated article
> and focuses on the violent and sordid world of "being a pimp," for lack of
> better words.
>
> I, frankly, would *love* to see madam have it's own article. Perhaps we
> should discuss it on the "pimp" page or just BE BOLD. (I don't have time to
> start a well fleshed out madam article, but, I'd be interested in perhaps
> collaborating with others to do it.)
>
> Thoughts?
>
> -Sarah
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Sarah Stierch Consulting
> --
> Historical, cultural, new media & artistic research & advising.
> http://www.sarahstierch.com
>
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