Re: [Gendergap] Ruth Barrett bio

[Kevin Gorman]

You're absolutely correct that the article does not have sufficient cites
in it to establish notability, but reread that sentence.  "No assertions,
plausible or otherwise of notability" - that's a big difference than what
is required to pass an AfD, and the tag didn't belong here.  The article
contains assertions of notability that are not outlandish, even if they are
not well cited - and what you wrote actually specifies that even assertions
of notability that are not plausible or cited are enough to not warrant the
tag.. You might tag an article about Ron similarly (although the tag
wouldn't fit there either,) but it's an article that needs expansion, not a
notability tag that literally does not match the article - and most
ENWPian's are a lot more likely to tag (or AFD) Ruth than Ron.

----
Kevin Gorman

On Sun, Jun 26, 2016 at 9:35 PM, Michael J. Lowrey <orangem...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I wrote, "The article as written contains no assertions, plausible or
> otherwise, of notability. It reeks with redlinks and self-published
> "sources". AS WRITTEN. I would have been equally dismissive of a guy name
> Ron who claimed to be part of a Odinic priesthood; no more and no less.
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 26, 2016 at 11:26 PM, Kevin Gorman <kgor...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> With Ruth having published articles in peer reviewed journals multiple
>> times that have been directly responded to by dozens of times, having her
>> work and ideas forming a significant part of a book by KS Coleman that
>> directly talks about Ruth's life experences, mentions her full name 20+
>> times as both a source of information and about life details related to
>> Ruth, having some details of her life included in both a Thomsan-Gale
>> encyclopedia regarding LGBT topcs and a separate encyclopedia about Wiccan
>> and Neopagan traditions, as well as many other articles, including book
>> reviews, there's no question that she passes both WP:GNG and WP:AUTHOR.
>> These cites are not in the article but it took me approximately 115 second
>> (I timed it) to find them without having journal access configured. I
>> seriously doubt the article would've challenged if it were about a dude.
>>
>> If you're going to tag something as non-notable, you should probably take
>> two minutes before doing so.
>>
>> 
>> Kevin Gorman
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 26, 2016 at 8:30 PM, Michael J. Lowrey <orangem...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The book may be notable while the author is not. It sounds like it's a
>>> rehash of Joanna Russ' classic HOW TO SUPPRESS WOMEN'S WRITING.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jun 26, 2016 at 10:05 PM, Carol Moore dc <
>>> carolmoor...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dang, I should have found some refs first. See how out of practice I am!
>>>> I was sure I'd read it already was discussed by Time or something.
>>>>
>>>> I'm sure that the bio will be quickly deleted, even after the book
>>>> published and reviewed, while thousands of male bios with no refs survive.
>>>> Sigh...
>>>>
>>>> On 6/26/2016 9:45 PM, Michael J. Lowrey wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The article as written contains no assertions, plausible or otherwise,
>>>>> of notability. It reeks with redlinks and self-published "sources".
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Jun 26, 2016 at 7:39 PM, Carol Moore dc
>>>>> <carolmoor...@verizon.net <mailto:carolmoor...@verizon.net>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> It looks like her bio is being challenged just as the book she
>>>>> edited is starting to get reliable source attention. In case anyone
>>>>> wants to work on it.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruth_Barrett
>>>>>
>>>>> The book is "Female Erasure: What You Need To Know About Gender
>>>>> Politics’, War On Woman, the Female Sex, and Human Rights"
>>>>>
>>>>> ___
>>>>> Gendergap mailing list
>>>>> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org >>>> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org>
>>>>> To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing,
>>>>> please visit:
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Michael J. "Orange Mike" Lowrey
>>&

Re: [Gendergap] Ruth Barrett bio

[Kevin Gorman]

With Ruth having published articles in peer reviewed journals multiple
times that have been directly responded to by dozens of times, having her
work and ideas forming a significant part of a book by KS Coleman that
directly talks about Ruth's life experences, mentions her full name 20+
times as both a source of information and about life details related to
Ruth, having some details of her life included in both a Thomsan-Gale
encyclopedia regarding LGBT topcs and a separate encyclopedia about Wiccan
and Neopagan traditions, as well as many other articles, including book
reviews, there's no question that she passes both WP:GNG and WP:AUTHOR.
These cites are not in the article but it took me approximately 115 second
(I timed it) to find them without having journal access configured. I
seriously doubt the article would've challenged if it were about a dude.

If you're going to tag something as non-notable, you should probably take
two minutes before doing so.


Kevin Gorman

On Sun, Jun 26, 2016 at 8:30 PM, Michael J. Lowrey <orangem...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> The book may be notable while the author is not. It sounds like it's a
> rehash of Joanna Russ' classic HOW TO SUPPRESS WOMEN'S WRITING.
>
> On Sun, Jun 26, 2016 at 10:05 PM, Carol Moore dc <carolmoor...@verizon.net
> > wrote:
>
>> Dang, I should have found some refs first. See how out of practice I am!
>> I was sure I'd read it already was discussed by Time or something.
>>
>> I'm sure that the bio will be quickly deleted, even after the book
>> published and reviewed, while thousands of male bios with no refs survive.
>> Sigh...
>>
>> On 6/26/2016 9:45 PM, Michael J. Lowrey wrote:
>>
>>> The article as written contains no assertions, plausible or otherwise,
>>> of notability. It reeks with redlinks and self-published "sources".
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jun 26, 2016 at 7:39 PM, Carol Moore dc
>>> <carolmoor...@verizon.net <mailto:carolmoor...@verizon.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>> It looks like her bio is being challenged just as the book she
>>> edited is starting to get reliable source attention. In case anyone
>>> wants to work on it.
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruth_Barrett
>>>
>>> The book is "Female Erasure: What You Need To Know About Gender
>>> Politics’, War On Woman, the Female Sex, and Human Rights"
>>>
>>> ___
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Michael J. "Orange Mike" Lowrey
>>>
>>> "When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left, I buy food
>>> and clothes."
>>>  --  Desiderius Erasmus
>>>
>>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Michael J. "Orange Mike" Lowrey
>
> "When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left, I buy food and
> clothes."
>  --  Desiderius Erasmus
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Latest WMF brouhahas relevant to gender gap??

[Kevin Gorman]

Though I doubt it has anything to do with why he was removed, I'm not sure
we've had a trustee more oriented towards figuring out how to address
gendered harrassment than James, and at the same time, the culture Arnnon
promoted while at Google is the same culture that hurts the progress of
women in tech - so both certainly have implications for how gender issues
will be handled in the Wikimedia movement going forward.


Kevin Gorman

On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 9:29 AM, WereSpielChequers <
werespielchequ...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Two male trustees are leaving as their terms have expired. One male
> trustee has been controversially ousted.
>
> Two trustees have been appointed, one female, the other male. There is a
> petition to reject the new male trustee which may or may not succeed, and
> if it succeeds who can predict the gender of the next appointment.
>
> There will be a replacement for the ousted male trustee, and that
> replacement could be of any gender.
>
> So the events of the last few weeks have left the board with a lightly
> more even gender balance and could switch the balance further. But I doubt
> that was anyone's primary motive in all this kerfuffle.
>
>
>
>
>
> On 26 January 2016 at 17:09, Risker <risker...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> While I believe that the issues raised in the changes in the Board of
>> Trustees are important and worthy of attention for many reasons, it does
>> not appear to me that there are issues specific to (or particularly
>> relevant to) the gender gap, except in a very, very peripheral way.
>>
>> Risker/Anne
>>
>> On 26 January 2016 at 11:20, Carol Moore dc <carolmoor...@verizon.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Wondering if there is any particular relevance to the gender gap issue
>>> in the removal of one board member and protests against the new one? Or
>>> just a general "editor trust" issue, which makes many editors dis-trust any
>>> "close the gap" programs/initiatives by WMF?? (Or at least gives them an
>>> *excuse* to distrust them!)
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Heilman
>>> https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Resolution:James_Heilman_Removal
>>> http://www.examiner.com/article/the-doctor-is-out-says-wmf-board
>>>
>>> AND
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnnon_Geshuri
>>>
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Vote_of_no_confidence_on_Arnnon_Geshuri
>>>
>>> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/01/editors-demand-ouster-of-wikimedia-board-member-involved-in-no-poach-deal/
>>>
>>> ---
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>
>>>
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[Gendergap] Fwd: [Wikimedia-l] WMF Board of Trustees

[Kevin Gorman]

Hi all -

For the first time in it's history, the Wikimedia Foundation has directly
removed a trustee.  It worries me significantly to see this happen because
although I don't have the precise details about what triggered his removal,
besides for all his medical work, work on creating a copyvio bot, etc, I
know that James was a strong voice against harrassment on the projects. I
know that he enjoys just a colossal amount of trust in general, and have
his word that this isn't over anything like an allegation of financial
malfeasance, so even without knowing further details about what triggered
his removal, just the fact that it happened alone is potentially of
significant concern to this list.

Best,
KG

-- Forwarded message --
From: James Heilman 
Date: Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 2:43 PM
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] WMF Board of Trustees
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 


On Dec 28th 2015 I was removed from the board of the Wikimedia Foundation.
Many thanks to all those who gave me their support during the last
election. I have worked in the last six month to honor the trust placed in
me by advocating for our values, communities, and projects.

Sincerely
James Heilman

--
James Heilman
MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian

The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine
www.opentextbookofmedicine.com
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[Gendergap] Arbitration election results

[Kevin Gorman]

Hi all -

The results for 2015's arbitration elections just came out, you can
view them here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee_Elections_December_2015#Results

I'm quite happy with them :)

Best,
Kevin Gorman

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Re: [Gendergap] Atlantic article..."How Wikipedia is Hostile to Women"

[Kevin Gorman]

re for that matter.)  Although we
can't control altogether who looks at the list and comments elsewhere,
if you've been contacted in a manner that makes you uncomfortable by
someone who you can show is an active list member, please contact
Emily or myself, and we will look in to it and take action as needed.

Best,
Kevin Gorman

On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 1:49 PM, Chris Keating
<chriskeatingw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In case anyone missed it, there is now an Arbcom case about this article...
> or something - am not entirely clear what it's about but there are some
> very, erm, "interesting" arguments being made in the dozens of case
> statements.
>
> On 21 Oct 2015 21:01, "Carol Moore dc" <carolmoor...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/10/how-wikipedia-is-hostile-to-women/411619/
>>
>> Goes into lots of details...
>>
>>
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Re: [Gendergap] Atlantic article..."How Wikipedia is Hostile toWomen"

[Kevin Gorman]

WSC -

Though true that 2014 appears to have been the nadir for many editing
metrics, even if you set the bar really high, I'd be impressed if you
could find any relevant metric that was only 60% of what it was the
year before.  A lot more went in to dismal arbcom turnout than simply
the fact that 2014 was our lowest year for most metrics.  (I say that
not just based on the metrics, but on dozens of private comments I've
received from parties ranging from those who knew they coud vote but
didn't, knew they could vote and did, and sitting functionaries.  Yes,
my inbox is painful this week.)

Best,
Kevin Gorman

On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 5:01 AM, Neotarf <neot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It might be interesting to look at when the 500-edit requirement was put in
> place for certain articles that were targeted by off-site editing groups,
> and whether that correlates with anything.  It looks like the number of new
> articles peaked some time ago.
>
> On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 6:45 AM, WereSpielChequers
> <werespielchequ...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Kevin,
>>
>> 2014 was the nadir for some raw editing numbers on English Wikipedia, on
>> at least one count numbers have been rising since then. The problem in
>> estimating the electorate is that our best metrics are unrelated to the
>> arbcom voting criteria, so for example we know that the number of editors
>> saving over 100 edits per month in mainspace is up in 2015, September's
>> figure was 15.3% up on 2014 and the highest September figure since 2010. >5
>> edits is more volatile, some months even show a small decline since the same
>> month in 2014. People entitled to vote is going to be a much larger group
>> than the >100 edits per month brigade, but I'd be surprised if there wasn't
>> a correlation between edit count and propensity to vote.
>>
>>
>> On 23 October 2015 at 02:21, Kevin Gorman <kgor...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Daniel: your suggestion doesn't reflect the fact that 2014's election
>>> had roughly 60% the voters of the year before. We definitely didn't
>>> have anywhere near that much of a drop in editing metrics.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Kevin Gorman
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 1:23 PM, Daniel and Elizabeth Case
>>> <danc...@frontiernet.net> wrote:
>>> >> Not to keep harping on how important it is to vote for arbcom, but I'm
>>> >> still just flummoxed by the fact that arbcom is elected by about half
>>> >> a percent of very active editors, and a smaller portion still of
>>> >> editors who meet the requirements and have edited in say, the last
>>> >> year.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Speaking as someone who does vote in ArbCom elections regularly,
>>> > although I
>>> > rarely closely follow what that body does ... I think this might
>>> > reflect the
>>> > oft-unacknowledged fact that a great deal more editors than we realize
>>> > do
>>> > the tasks they have set out for themselves, "all alone or in twos", so
>>> > to
>>> > speak, managing to complete them and resolve differences of opinion
>>> > amongst
>>> > themselves without resorting to any sort of formal dispute-resolution
>>> > process. Of course it's only going to be those who have a reason to
>>> > care who
>>> > care about ArbCom—and, naturally, that group is going to include a
>>> > greater
>>> > proportion of those who have agendas they'd like to see ArbCom promote.
>>> >
>>> > Daniel Case
>>> >
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Re: [Gendergap] Atlantic article..."How Wikipedia is Hostile to Women"

[Kevin Gorman]

FWIW: speaking as  a non-functionary who is not aware of what
information our functionaries had at the time but used to handle abuse
cases like this for a major website (and also briefly worked as an
actual skiptracer, using purely legal means) the evidence I dug up on
my own I would consider absolutely sufficient to tie the two together
conclusively. More significantly, as Sarah pointed out, this is
happening time after time after time.  It becomes much harder to argue
that something is incidental, a one-off, or a result of an inability
to gather sufficient evidence when a larger pattern presents itself.

Not to keep harping on how important it is to vote for arbcom, but I'm
still just flummoxed by the fact that arbcom is elected by about half
a percent of very active editors, and a smaller portion still of
editors who meet the requirements and have edited in say, the last
year.  That's not even a gender thing for me at this point - it's just
broken (although it certainly has implications w/r/t gender.)

(As a tangent, it amuses me that  most people in my experience who
ever use the expression 'one bad apple' forget that the full idiom is
"one bad apple spoils the whole bunch.")

Best,
Kevin Gorman

On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 10:34 AM, Fæ <fae...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Jonathan, I think there's a bit of talking past each other going on.
> Rehashing details of one of the many dramafest Arbcom cases is not
> worthwhile.
>
> From my viewpoint Sarah hit the nail on the head with "Something
> systemic is happening here. As a result of those cases and many other
> examples Wikipedia now has a terrible reputation for being sexist."
>
> Improving reputation and recognizing that there is a systemic problem
> is a far more useful direction to take. Think about a bit of
> "reframing".
>
> P.S. I was approached by the Atlantic due to my work in the area of
> revert-wars and the potential relationship to bias. I did a little
> digging around it, but my thoughts are too slow to satisfy
> journalists' deadlines. ;-)
>
> Fae
>
>
> On 22 October 2015 at 18:12, WereSpielChequers
> <werespielchequ...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Sarah,
>>
>> I'm not a "functionary" so I haven't seen the evidence - clearly it
>> convinces you, but it did not quite convince the functionaries.  Reading the
>> result and for example Yunshui's comment I would simply prefer that the
>> record shows we were not fully convinced by the evidence, rather than that
>> we were convinced, but chose not to act. I think what we have here is more
>> than a detail difference. If the decision had been, as reported in the
>> Atlantic, that Arbcom had decided this "on the grounds that it may “out” the
>> editor that had posted the pictures, or link his username to his real name."
>> Then I would have supported a change in policy, or Arbcom membership, so
>> that future Arbcoms in similar situations would be willing to risk outing
>> someone, or just ban them without public reason, rather than leave a
>> harasser unpunished. But if the issue is not that, but instead that the
>> evidence was inconclusive, then I think we have a very different problem to
>> work on. As for the broader picture I don't dispute that Wikipedia has
>> several problems around gender, and some terrible publicity, but if one took
>> that article at face value the obvious next step would be to get a change in
>> policy so that if Arbcom were convinced of the evidence they could and would
>> have acted.
>>
>>
>> Jonathan
>>
>> On 22 October 2015 at 17:37, Sarah (SV) <slimvir...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> WSC, the evidence as to who posted the porn images was, I would say,
>>> conclusive. We nevertheless ended up with a situation in which a man who had
>>> been engaged in harassment (much of which was onwiki and had been going on
>>> for about a year) was let off the hook, and the harassed woman was banned.
>>>
>>> There was a similar situation in the GGTF case, so the Lightbreather case
>>> was not an unfortunate one-off. For example, the man who was blocked for
>>> harassment during the Lightbreather case should have been blocked for it
>>> during the GGTF case, but wasn't. He only ended up being blocked during the
>>> Lightbreather case because he admitted that he had done it. Otherwise he
>>> might still be editing.
>>>
>>> Something systemic is happening here. As a result of those cases and many
>>> other examples Wikipedia now has a terrible reputation for being sexist.
>>> (See this selection of stories.) Rather than arguing about which details
>>> various journali

Re: [Gendergap] Atlantic article..."How Wikipedia is Hostile toWomen"

[Kevin Gorman]

Daniel: your suggestion doesn't reflect the fact that 2014's election
had roughly 60% the voters of the year before. We definitely didn't
have anywhere near that much of a drop in editing metrics.

Best,
Kevin Gorman

On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 1:23 PM, Daniel and Elizabeth Case
<danc...@frontiernet.net> wrote:
>> Not to keep harping on how important it is to vote for arbcom, but I'm
>> still just flummoxed by the fact that arbcom is elected by about half
>> a percent of very active editors, and a smaller portion still of
>> editors who meet the requirements and have edited in say, the last
>> year.
>
>
> Speaking as someone who does vote in ArbCom elections regularly, although I
> rarely closely follow what that body does ... I think this might reflect the
> oft-unacknowledged fact that a great deal more editors than we realize do
> the tasks they have set out for themselves, "all alone or in twos", so to
> speak, managing to complete them and resolve differences of opinion amongst
> themselves without resorting to any sort of formal dispute-resolution
> process. Of course it's only going to be those who have a reason to care who
> care about ArbCom—and, naturally, that group is going to include a greater
> proportion of those who have agendas they'd like to see ArbCom promote.
>
> Daniel Case
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Atlantic article..."How Wikipedia is HostiletoWomen"

[Kevin Gorman]

I'm pretty sure it was at least the year before, though I could be
wrong.  I don't agree that arbcom is irrelevant to WP editors
generally speaking.  Arbcom has a significant effect on culture, which
effects everyone, and additionally, many eligible voters who likely
don't realize they are eligible are both significant contributors of
content - direct or indirect - like a lot of GLAM and EDU folks, are
likely to spend enough to time to evaluate and vote for the candidates
that best support their values and interests.

As a minor example, Brian Carver (who meets the eligibility
requirements, though he only has 300 edits under his own account,
since he normally edits anonymously) has taught grad students using
Wikipedia longer than I've edited Wikipedia, and is the reason why a
huge number of cyberlaw articles exist at all, let alone are generally
well-sourced and pretty comprehensive (the list of articles his
userpage lists is significantly less than complete - not every student
adds theirs.) I don't know if he votes or not (I've never asked him,)
but I know he has an interest in the climate of ENWP as a whole, and
certainly a significant investment in the education program (which at
times, especially before the WEF, was likely headed to a nasty arb
case.)  I'm also pretty positive he'd spend the time necessary to be
an informed voter - and he is far from the only such person.  (He's
prominent and public enough that I feel comfortable naming him without
asking first, but I can think of plenty of other examples of similar
situations.)

It is generally accepted to be best practice by pretty much any group
that holds elections to inform eligible voters that they are eligible
to vote,

Best,
Kevin Gorman

On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 6:32 PM, Daniel and Elizabeth Case
<danc...@frontiernet.net> wrote:
>
>> Daniel: your suggestion doesn't reflect the fact that 2014's election
>> had roughly 60% the voters of the year before. We definitely didn't
>> have anywhere near that much of a drop in editing metrics.
>
>
> It wasn't a "suggestion". My point, more bluntly, was that there are an
> awful lot of Wikipedians, maybe not all or even many of them people who make
> edits on a daily basis, but do so regularly, for whom the ArbCom is
> irrelevant. And that perception would be independent of any editing metrics.
>
> On another note, was 2014 the year we went to a secret ballot to elect
> arbitrators? Or had that been the year before?
>
> Dan Case
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Atlantic article..."How Wikipedia is Hostile to Women"

[Kevin Gorman]

Thanks for sending this out Carol, you beat me by about two minutes.
I would hugely encourage everyone to read this, and a lot of it also
relates to why it's important that people vote in arbcom election, and
we don't have arbitrators elected with 273 support votes and fewer
than 600 total votes...

Best,
Kevin Gorman

On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 1:00 PM, Carol Moore dc
<carolmoor...@verizon.net> wrote:
> http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/10/how-wikipedia-is-hostile-to-women/411619/
>
> Goes into lots of details...
>
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Atlantic article..."How Wikipedia is Hostile to Women"

[Kevin Gorman]

Some journos take corrections easily, and some don't.  I've had people
directly misquote me at major outlets where I had the call on record
(with their consent, since CA is a 2 party consent state for recording
calls,) and refuse to make corrections, and had other people accept my
corrections at face value and put them in to place.  I may not have
time to do so today, but would encourage anyone interested (probably
better if it's only a person or two and not a horde in this case) to
contact the author of the Atlantic piece about the issues.  Probably
those directly interviewed by the journalist would be the best
candidates to put in for a correction.

Best,
Kevin Gorman

On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 1:16 PM, Andreas Kolbe <jayen...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Good that this story has been told, at last. Overdue.
>
> (Minor quibbles: Eric is not an admin, and the New York Times piece was not
> written by a NYT reporter. Corrections possible?)
>
> On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 9:04 PM, Kevin Gorman <kgor...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for sending this out Carol, you beat me by about two minutes.
>> I would hugely encourage everyone to read this, and a lot of it also
>> relates to why it's important that people vote in arbcom election, and
>> we don't have arbitrators elected with 273 support votes and fewer
>> than 600 total votes...
>>
>> Best,
>> Kevin Gorman
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 1:00 PM, Carol Moore dc
>> <carolmoor...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/10/how-wikipedia-is-hostile-to-women/411619/
>> >
>> > Goes into lots of details...
>> >
>> >
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Re: [Gendergap] Eligibility to vote in arbcom elections - and encouragement to do if you have not yet

[Kevin Gorman]

I made a whoopsie in the title.  "If you have not yet" was intended to
mean "if you have not in past cycles."  To be clear, voting in this
season's elections is not yet available.  I'll keep an array of lists
updated with relevant timelines, etc, as I can.  If you're interested
in running yourself, but not sure what it entails, please contact me
offlist, and I can walk you through a lot of what you'll be dealing
with.  Also of note, even though we've never had an arb who has not
yet been an admin, there's no actual requirement that arbitrators be
admins.

Best,
Kevin Gorman

On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 5:18 PM, Kevin Gorman <kgor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all -
>
> I'll be circulating this to multiple lists, in part to ensure that
> everyone is aware of both the importance and ability of ENWP's
> arbitration committee, and in part to ensure that everyone who is
> eligible to vote is aware that they are eligible to vote, and aware
> that their votes are anonymous - and aware of how significantly they
> can count.  Although oppose votes do carry more weight than neutral
> votes or support votes, in our last tranche of elections (which had a
> steep decline in voters from previous elections,) an arbitrator was
> elected with only 227 support votes, and a total of only 593 votes
> cast in relation to that arb in general.
>
> The arbitration committee has, for all practical purposes, binding
> decision making ability on all matter that come before the English
> Wikipedia.  For members of that committee to have been elected on the
> basis of only 227 support votes seems (sorry to the arb in question
> for using him as an example) absolutely bizarre to me.  The
> arbitration committee is the body ultimately responsible for ensuring
> the health of ENWP's community, including on issues of gender,
> harrassment, and everything else.  I'm not going to suggest who you
> vote for (especially because another three weeks of nominations are
> coming in,) but if you are concerned about the state of ENWP's
> community, please take the minimal time necessary to scrutinize
> candidate statements and cast your anonymous votes according to those
> candidates who you believe are most likely to represent your
> interests.
>
> In comparison with the 227 positive votes and the 593 total votes that
> an arbitrator was actually elected with last year, this list alone has
> over 400 members, most of whom are eligible to vote in arbcom
> elections.  Again, I'll be circulating this (or a very similar
> message) around to multiple other lists, and won't be making direct
> suggestions or endorsements of candidates on-list, although I may
> compile a voter candidate guide on-wiki when all nominations are in.
>
> If you meet the fairly minimal requirements to ote, please take the
> fairly minimal time out of your day once elections start to cast your
> anonymous votes in favor of the candidates who best supports your
> interests and the interests of the community - and I know that even on
> this list, there are certainly people who will disagree with me about
> what candidates will be represent the interests of the community, and
> am totally fine with that - vote how you want to vote.  But vote!
> ENWP's final ruling body shouldn't be determined by a small fraction
> of eligible voters who will all be effected by the decisions our next
> arbcom makes:
>
> These are literally the only requirements to vote in the English
> Arbcom's upcoming elections:
> "(i) has registered an account before 28 October 2015
> (ii) has made at least 150 mainspace edits before 1 November 2015
> and,(iii) is not blocked from the English Wikipedia at the time of
> their vote.
> (iii) is not blocked from the English Wikipedia at the time of their vote."
>
> If you meet those requirements, please consider the candidates and
> their position statements and their answers to questions, and vote for
> whatever candidates best think represent how you would like the future
> of ENWP's community to be.
>
> Best,
> Kevin Gorman

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[Gendergap] Eligibility to vote in arbcom elections - and encouragement to do if you have not yet

[Kevin Gorman]

Hi all -

I'll be circulating this to multiple lists, in part to ensure that
everyone is aware of both the importance and ability of ENWP's
arbitration committee, and in part to ensure that everyone who is
eligible to vote is aware that they are eligible to vote, and aware
that their votes are anonymous - and aware of how significantly they
can count.  Although oppose votes do carry more weight than neutral
votes or support votes, in our last tranche of elections (which had a
steep decline in voters from previous elections,) an arbitrator was
elected with only 227 support votes, and a total of only 593 votes
cast in relation to that arb in general.

The arbitration committee has, for all practical purposes, binding
decision making ability on all matter that come before the English
Wikipedia.  For members of that committee to have been elected on the
basis of only 227 support votes seems (sorry to the arb in question
for using him as an example) absolutely bizarre to me.  The
arbitration committee is the body ultimately responsible for ensuring
the health of ENWP's community, including on issues of gender,
harrassment, and everything else.  I'm not going to suggest who you
vote for (especially because another three weeks of nominations are
coming in,) but if you are concerned about the state of ENWP's
community, please take the minimal time necessary to scrutinize
candidate statements and cast your anonymous votes according to those
candidates who you believe are most likely to represent your
interests.

In comparison with the 227 positive votes and the 593 total votes that
an arbitrator was actually elected with last year, this list alone has
over 400 members, most of whom are eligible to vote in arbcom
elections.  Again, I'll be circulating this (or a very similar
message) around to multiple other lists, and won't be making direct
suggestions or endorsements of candidates on-list, although I may
compile a voter candidate guide on-wiki when all nominations are in.

If you meet the fairly minimal requirements to ote, please take the
fairly minimal time out of your day once elections start to cast your
anonymous votes in favor of the candidates who best supports your
interests and the interests of the community - and I know that even on
this list, there are certainly people who will disagree with me about
what candidates will be represent the interests of the community, and
am totally fine with that - vote how you want to vote.  But vote!
ENWP's final ruling body shouldn't be determined by a small fraction
of eligible voters who will all be effected by the decisions our next
arbcom makes:

These are literally the only requirements to vote in the English
Arbcom's upcoming elections:
"(i) has registered an account before 28 October 2015
(ii) has made at least 150 mainspace edits before 1 November 2015
and,(iii) is not blocked from the English Wikipedia at the time of
their vote.
(iii) is not blocked from the English Wikipedia at the time of their vote."

If you meet those requirements, please consider the candidates and
their position statements and their answers to questions, and vote for
whatever candidates best think represent how you would like the future
of ENWP's community to be.

Best,
Kevin Gorman

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Re: [Gendergap] Video Q discussing Arbcom and gender/orientation harassment cases

[Kevin Gorman]

I've been out of touch with the world for most of the last week, but
I'm extremely disappointed to see the only active arbitrator to
comment on that discussion so far just asked for a tl;dr when given a
two hour long video of free advice from a leading expert in online
harassment issues.  Almost every case arb takes deals with harassment
in one form or another - given the time they spend discussing
trivialities, let alone drafting cases and on private lists, I would
hope that no arbitrator (none of the sitting ones have formal training
in dealing with online harrassment, AFAIK, although I may be missing
someone) would refuse to spend a much smaller amount of time hearing
one of the top experts n the subject talk about it.  If you can't
accept a two hour time committment, you probably shouldn't be an arb.


Kevin Gorman

On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 8:55 AM, Fæ <fae...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Links:
> 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kS-Y-FuzAH4=85m30s
> 2. 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration_Committee#Comments_on_ArbCom_and_gender
>
> Folks may be interested in watching the Q session at the recent
> WikiConference USA where gender and harassment was discussed for about
> 45 minutes.[1] It makes for an interesting summary of how Arbcom is
> perceived with regard to handling harassment cases, and the types of
> harassment of significant concern for our community.
>
> This has been raised on the Arbcom noticeboard[2], it will be
> interesting to see how many current Arbcom members make a public
> comment, or indeed if they are perfectly happy with the way Arbcom
> currently works, or not.
>
> Fae
> --
> fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Retired

[Kevin Gorman]

Hi Lightbreather -

I know I haven't been very active lately (I wound up with sepsis,) but I am
sorry to see you go.  I'm not very familiar with the on-wiki side of what
happened to you, but I think it should be an urgent priority for WMF to
develop better tools (and a culture that uses them) to handle both on-wiki
and off-wiki harassment.  I wish you the best, thank you for your
contributions so far, and hope there's a time in the future where changes
have been made to the point that you are interested in and comfortable
coming back.

Best,
Kevin Gorman

On Tue, May 26, 2015 at 5:35 PM, LB lightbreath...@gmail.com wrote:

 Due to off-wiki harassment, I have retired. Thank you to those of you who
 have been friendly with me over the past year.

 Lightbreather


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[Gendergap] Keilana is now a mod

[Kevin Gorman]

Hi all -

I've now made Keilana a mod.  I'm sorry for my complete absence and for any
emails I have failed to respond to.  Several weeks ago I collapsed in
septic shock and was in the ICU for an extended period of time, and am only
now even starting to return to even a semblance of normalcy.  I don't
anticipate anything that weird happening, but have complete confidence in
Keilana in terms of making mod decisions, appointing new people, etc, by
herself if necessary if I happen to not be here and we have no new mods yet.

Best,
Kevin Gorman
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Re: [Gendergap] Stepping down as list mod - volunteers needed

[Kevin Gorman]

Hi all -

Unfortunately I collapsed in severe septic shock several weeks ago, and
thus Wikimedia related business hasn't been on my radar.

Thank you Leigh, for service. I'll be appointing Emily/Keilana the next
time on my mobile, but more volunteers are welcome.

Best,
Kevin Gorman

On Monday, January 19, 2015, Leigh Honeywell le...@hypatia.ca wrote:

 Hi folks! I've decided that in 2015 I'm going to try to do fewer things
 but do them better, so in that spirit I'm stepping down as a moderator of
 this list. This means we need another moderator (or two or three) to step
 up. Please email gendergap-ow...@lists.wikimedia.org
 javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','gendergap-ow...@lists.wikimedia.org'); if
 you're interested in this.

 Thanks!

 -Leigh

 --
 Leigh Honeywell
 http://hypatia.ca
 @hypatiadotca

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Re: [Gendergap] Gender gap emails Arbitrator doesn't like

[Kevin Gorman]

Kumioko has been removed from the list - Leigh did so earlier, and I agree
with her decision. Of the posts Carch had a problem with, I don't see most
of them as an issue.  Due to health issues I've been almost completely MIA
for the last long period of time and missed the posts as they occurred, so
I couldn't have taken action as they came even if I had objected to them.
If Carch doesn't want to join the list because of them that's certain his
choice, but I think the inappropriate elements of the posts he linked to
were more or less appropriately handled by other gendergap members.  If an
inappropriate for the list line of discussion gets shut down by other list
members, I don't think it's desirable to take harder mod action against it.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with the email chain pondering about legal
repercussions for people engaged in online harrassment, it's a discussion
that is occurring in a wide variety of venues including plenty of other
mailing lists, the popular press, and governments.  It would've been
different if it had been people organizing to try to create legal
consequences for a particular Wikimedian, but as far as I can see it
wasn't.  Frankly, I don't see anything in that discussion skimming through
it that couldn't have taken place on-wiki, and I've seen discussions not
dissimilar to it take place on-wiki.  I wouldn't like to see a discussion
aiming to create legal consequences for a particular contributor here
generally speaking, because if it was unjustified it would be shitty on our
part, and if it was justified this list is frankly speaking a terrible
mechanism for organizing around it, but I see nothing wrong with talking
about it in abstract.

I don't see anything wrong with talking about the merits of particular
arbcom candidates even if it results in a chunk of list members voting as a
group. Arbcom's functioning has a pretty significant linkage with the
health of ENWP's community, and whether or not sexism, racism, etc are
accepted.  The on-wiki voter guides are not dissimilar, and I would bet
money they have a more significant block vote effect than any discussion
here will.  I don't like the suggestion of using editathons to create a
cabal of new voters, but it's not a suggestion that was implemented, didn't
gain significant support here, and bluntly pretty impractical.  I would
take issue with people actively using the list to organize a voting bloc of
people who don't regularly edit, but that didn't happen and I doubt there
will be a situation where that will happen. I don't see a point in taking
mod action against someone who makes a suggestion that is made in good
faith but isn't terribly appropriate, especially given that we *need*
innovative ideas if we're likely to make a dent in anything, and it's
unsurprising that some brainstormed ideas won't be viable because they
violate community norms too strongly. FWIW, I wouldn't have a problem with
people organizing editathons specifically about ENWP's governance
structures or the problems in them even if they contained plenty of opinion
as long as they weren't actively trying to create a bloc of voters who just
took instructions about how to vote from other people.

Talking about doxxing or researching Eric isn't really appropriate, but I
don't see any meaningful previously private information in that thread as
to be worth sanctioning anyone, and Fluffernutter appropriately promptly
pointed out that.  I don't agree with Fluff that all discussion of
individual editors is blanket inappropriate, but I can see situations where
it would be, as long as it didn't delve in to undisclosed portions of their
non-Wikimedia lives.  On something of an individual note, if someone wrote
a decent analysis of how Eric came to the prominence that he has, or other
extremely prominent editors came to their positions, I would probably find
it pretty interesting and could see it appropriately discussed on the list.
I find ethnographic type studies of Wiki(p|m)edia quite fascinating, and
think that well done case studies of particularly prominent people or
events in Wikipedia's history would be pretty fascinating, too.


Kevin Gorman

On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 1:18 PM, gorillawarfarewikipe...@gmail.com wrote:

  On Friday, Dec 12, 2014 at 3:38 PM, marinka marinkavandam.com 
 mari...@marinkavandam.com, wrote:

 On topic, are we going to see some more debate about the Slate piece?
 Anne/Risker is suggesting there was a basic misunderstanding on the part of
 the author: that the whole thing had nothing to do with gender gap
 discrimination but behavior. Would that be your view, Molly? It does strike
 me as insular.

 In my view, the case centered on the behavior of a number of contributors,
 largely (but not solely) at he Gender Gap Task Force. I would like to think
 the rename to “Interactions at the GGTF” would clarify that the case was
 about the interactions and not the task force, but I realize the difference
 is perhaps too subtle

Re: [Gendergap] Google Group invite

[Kevin Gorman]

Sorry for not letting your message through sooner Russavia, for some reason
it didn't show up in the queue until today (the queue was completely empty
yesterday.)  You aren't on +mod over this, though I'd have to look back to
remember why you were (and I'd be surprised if we didn't tell you at the
time.)

FWIW: I know who set up the list and it wasn't Russavia and wasn't anyone
with an interest in gendergap issues.  I've been having major health issues
and know I'm not on the ball on this one, but would advise not engaging
with anyone affiliated with the alternate list.  The group that created it
is a group that has harrassed ENWP editors irl in serious ways in the past
and present.


Kevin Gorman

On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 10:17 AM, Russavia russavia.wikipe...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Thanks to those who have sent me the info on the list. I've reported
 it for spam and other -- unfortunately Google doesn't appear to
 let you add any comments.

 If anyone is still a member of the list and they make the membership
 list available check to see if this Russavia is
 russavia.wikipe...@gmail.com

 All I am seeing there is:

 You must be a member of this group to view and participate in it.

 Apply for membership or contact the owner.

 Report this group

 Also, I've left a message for Leigh over on Meta at

 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Leigh_Honeywell#Gender_gap_mailing_list
 noting also that I am on moderation on this list. I don't know who did
 that or why, I wasn't advised about it, but if it was due to this case
 it'd be great to have that lifted as well.

 Thanks.

 On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 11:56 PM, Marie Earley eir...@hotmail.com wrote:
  I got one and thought, Wait a minute, doesn't that get you into
 trouble?
  I've unsubscribed too. If I was ever going to burn my bridges I would do
 it
  in a more considered and constructive way than something like that.
 
  Marie
 
  
  Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2014 02:21:35 -0500
  From: risker...@gmail.com
  To: gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
  Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Google Group invite
 
  I got one and promptly unsubscribed.  I don't do google groups, and every
  time someone has invited me to one, I've found they were not to my taste.
 
  Risker/Anne
 
  On 1 December 2014 at 02:08, Alison Cassidy coot...@mac.com wrote:
 
  I didn't get one. Now, I feel  cheated! :D
 
  -- Allie
 
  On Nov 30, 2014, at 11:07 PM, Leigh Honeywell le...@hypatia.ca wrote:
 
  Someone purporting to be Russavia appears to have added a number of
 people
  from this list to a Google Group with a similar title to this list.
 Wearing
  my mod hat, I just want to be clear: this list isn't going anywhere, the
  Google Group is not WMF-sanctioned as far as I know, and scraping list
  members to add people to a third-party mailing list is terrible
 netiquette
  that will get you kicked off this list.
 
  -Leigh
 
 
 
  --
  Leigh Honeywell
  http://hypatia.ca
  @hypatiadotca
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Re: [Gendergap] Warning: Email thread hijacking

[Kevin Gorman]

It's worth additionally noting that as far as I can tell Russia Aviation is
associated with a real-world group that has previously doxxed editors with
severe consequences, and has a specific agenda that has nothing to do with
gender gap issues.  I'm keeping them off the list as best I can, but have
been a bit MIA for the last week and a half.

Best,
Kevin Gorman

On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 3:13 PM, marinka marinkavandam.com 
mari...@marinkavandam.com wrote:

  Yes, I've been inconvenienced by this group too. I've already reported
 them as spam to Google and have warned them if they bother me again I
 shall report them to Google abuse. This Russian Aviatiion character went as
 far as to analyze the Google Analytics code on my personal website, in a
 bid it seems to associate me with the sex trade in Indonesia, *gek* eh? I
 have informed the relevant authorities in Indonesia ... :).

 Huge fan of yours, Fae. Keep on trucking.

 Marinka (a pseudonym)

 On December 9, 2014 at 2:10 PM Fæ fae...@gmail.com wrote:


 Please take care when emailing replies to any inflammatory appearing
 emails to the list. You may be receiving emails with identical subject
 lines which are from a googlegroup rather than from a Wikimedia list
 which will appear to be in the same email thread. An example has been
 the discussion about the Arbcom election which even includes email
 bodies from the gendergap list in order to fool users.

 Checking the details will show @googlegroups.com in the from field
 and in the footer or names such as Russia Aviation, thought these
 are likely to keep changing.

 Unfortunately despite multiple complaints about this group hijacking
 users from a Wikimedia list by maliciously harvesting email addresses,
 Google has yet to take any visible action.

 Fae
 --
 fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae

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Re: [Gendergap] What's happening at ArbCom re WP:GGTF

[Kevin Gorman]

Tim: They actually are appealable at AE, they just can't be as undone as
quickly as most Eric blocks. Consensus needed to unblock rather than
consensus needed for a block to stay.  I suspect most of the initial blocks
will stick since they aren't too long, but the remedy does call for set
longer blocks with additional offenses, and then just escalating blocks -
those will almost certainly result in an appeal. Eric isn't Wikipedia's
gendergap, but he's certainly both a symptom of and contributor to it.  It
is unusual to discuss cases like this at length on this list, but when it
directly explicitly pertains to the gendergap, has the arbcom of ENWP
prohibiting some editors from *mentioning* that there is even a gendergap
anywhere on Wikipedia, and where a lot of the language involved is
incredibly sexist, we are certainly discussing problems related to the
gendergap of the English Wikipedia, which is a discussion that is certainly
within the scope of the list.

Best,
Kevin Gorman

On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 8:22 AM, Tim Davenport shoehu...@gmail.com wrote:

 Kevin Gorman: It's noteworthy that they are not non-appealable
 blocks.
 I honestly don't think this is beyond the scope of the list, although
 it's certainly
 a depressing topic.  Allowing severe gendered slurs to be bandied about
 with
 essentially no penalty is likely something that is going to decrease the
 participation of women on ENWP - which is not a good thing.

 It bears repeating that what is a severe gendered slur in America is
 approximately 83.6% less potent as a generalized term of abuse in the UK
 and Australia.[1]  I'm not going to defend Eric using the word cunt,
 however, he's well aware that he's in the metaphorical room with Americans
 and if he directs that word towards anyone again there will be
 repercussions beyond the usual wheel-warring and melodramatic debate...

 That's not the point I wish to make. Mr. Corbett's (virtually inevitable)
 future civility blocks will indeed be non-appealable because they are of
 specified length as part of an Arbcom ruling. Any reversal would probably
 mean the loss of tools — either those of the bad-blocker or the reverser,
 based on interpretation of the specific situation at Arbitration
 Enforcement, where the matter would inevitably go.

 Frankly, this approach would have solved the Malleus problem a long time
 ago. Incivility should be a block of specified and reasonable duration
 (viz., the one imposed on Carol Moore for her gang bangers rant). There
 are offenses at Wikipedia far worse than blowing one's top and being a
 jerk. Like systemic copyright violation. Like faking sources. Like mass
 subtle vandalism. Like repeated insertion of libelous text into BLPs. Like
 dramatic disruption of the project to score political points.

 Note well: in the matter of Mr. Corbett we are dealing with the issue of
 CIVILITY not the matter of THE WIKIPEDIA GENDER GAP.

 Tim Davenport
 Corvallis, OR


 ==Footnotes==

 [1] Yeah, I made that number up, but it's about right.

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Re: [Gendergap] What's happening at ArbCom re WP:GGTF

[Kevin Gorman]

Carol's productive contributions outweigh the trolling she's been put
through and occasional policy issue she has run in to, at least not to the
point of warranting a site ban.  Neotarf is being topic-banned from a
project they were a productive contributor to on a handful of flimsy
diffs.  I'd bet $20 that either no civility block sticks to Eric or it ends
in another arb case within four months.  Eric's a prolific content
contributor who has for at least two years regularly used the same gendered
slur and refused to acknowledge a problem with it or with his behavior in
general.  Like Betacommand, the content contributions driven off by his
behavior greatly outnumber his own.  The decision as it stands is ENWP's
arbcom explicitly saying they don't care about one of five aimed metrics
WMF to back strategic priorities.


Kevin Gorman

On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 8:15 AM, Tim Davenport shoehu...@gmail.com wrote:

 Kevin Gorman wrote: The case is ending with banning a bunch of women
 with flimsy excuses..

 That's a gross misrepresentation of the case outcome.

 The case is ending with Carol Moore being banned off for reasons which
 should be obvious to anyone reading through the case documentation and
 knowing of her previous case before this Arbcom.

 Neotarf (who has made it clear that they have never identified as male or
 female) is being topic-banned from participating in the GGTF.

 Eric Corbett is going to be under a new regimen of non-appealable civility
 blocks under the aegis of Arbitration Enforcement.

 Sitush has been warned for his creation of a Carol Moore biography.

 That's pretty much it.

 No bunch of women being singled out and stricken for no reason. A couple
 people judged to be disruptionists are being shown the door. The summary
 Kevin makes is ridiculous.


 Tim Davenport
 Corvallis, OR

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Re: [Gendergap] [Research] Communicating on Wikipedia while female

[Kevin Gorman]

Honestly, I don't see a giant problem with identifying the person in
question by name (and also find the research rather interesting.)  Eric
hasn't indicated that he regrets using the term, and has pretty robustly
defended using it (going as far back as at least 2012:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Eric_Corbett/Statement - and he is very
easily linked via Google to his statements and general use of the word.
Realistically any research posted on meta will be primarily consumed by
Wikimedians, and the current GGTF arb case is quite high profile.  Although
it's not incredibly common to name people in research without their
explicit consent, it's quite common in journalism - I've had full comments
of mine quoted by name in prominent media outlets going back years, with me
often only finding out after someone pointed them out to me (and happening
way before I did any voluntary media outreach.)

-
Kevin Gorman

On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 12:33 PM, Risker risker...@gmail.com wrote:

 I also find it very interesting.

 I have, however, asked Laura to redact the identifying information of one
 of the editors whose actions are incorporated into this research. Research
 rarely includes publishing identifying information about specific
 individuals, particularly without the direct permission of those
 individuals.  Regardless of what any of us think of the specific editor who
 is named, it behooves us all to act as we would expect to be treated - and
 I'd be pretty ticked if someone published research that included examples
 that identified me by name.

 Risker/Anne

 On 21 November 2014 14:55, Ryan Kaldari rkald...@wikimedia.org wrote:

 A very interesting study, and rather depressing. I love that I'm cited as
 a radical feminist though :)

 On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 9:43 AM, Netha Hussain nethahuss...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Dear all,

  I found an interesting research done by Laura Hale about Communicating
 on Wikipedia while female : A discursive analysis of the use of the word
 cunt on English Wikipedia user talk pages on meta wiki. The link to the
 research page is here:

 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Communicating_on_Wikipedia_while_female

 Regards
 Netha

 -- Forwarded message --
 From: Laura Hale la...@fanhistory.com
 Date: Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 9:57 PM
 Subject: [Wiki-research-l] Communicating on Wikipedia while female
 To: Research into Wikimedia content and communities 
 wiki-researc...@lists.wikimedia.org


 Hey,

 I posted some new research to meta at
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Communicating_on_Wikipedia_while_female
 .  It is titled: Communicating on Wikipedia while female A discursive
 analysis of the use of the word cunt on English Wikipedia user talk pages.
 Thought it might be of some interest to people on this list.

 Sincerely,
 Laura Hale

 --
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 Govt. Medical College, Kozhikode
 Blogs :
 *nethahussain.blogspot.com
 http://nethahussain.blogspot.comswethaambari.wordpress.com
 http://swethaambari.wordpress.com*


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Re: [Gendergap] [Research] Communicating on Wikipedia while female

[Kevin Gorman]

I don't think it's at all fair to characterize the section as an attempt to
rail on Eric.  He just happens to have been at the center of the most
recent high profile controversy about the word - which means that quoting
recent defenses of the use of the word as an insult will naturally mean
mostly quoting defenses of him.  I've gone ahead and CC'ed Laura on this
thread, since she's not on gendergap-l.


Kevin Gorman

On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 1:27 PM, Risker risker...@gmail.com wrote:

 Well, then, that speaks more to the quality of the research if an entire
 section is devoted to slagging a specific editor, and what you're
 suggesting is that the research really should be interpreted as we have
 this one guy who keeps using this word, plus a rare occasional other editor
 who uses it, and we're going to group all obscenities together and use it
 to slag off the guy we're ticked off with.

 This isn't claimed to be journalism, it's claimed to be research, and it
 needs to be held to a higher standard.  The more I'm reading this, the more
 I'm finding it problematic.

 Risker/Anne

 On 21 November 2014 15:59, Kevin Gorman kgor...@gmail.com wrote:

 Honestly, I don't see a giant problem with identifying the person in
 question by name (and also find the research rather interesting.)  Eric
 hasn't indicated that he regrets using the term, and has pretty robustly
 defended using it (going as far back as at least 2012:
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Eric_Corbett/Statement - and he is
 very easily linked via Google to his statements and general use of the
 word.  Realistically any research posted on meta will be primarily consumed
 by Wikimedians, and the current GGTF arb case is quite high profile.
 Although it's not incredibly common to name people in research without
 their explicit consent, it's quite common in journalism - I've had full
 comments of mine quoted by name in prominent media outlets going back
 years, with me often only finding out after someone pointed them out to me
 (and happening way before I did any voluntary media outreach.)

 -
 Kevin Gorman

 On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 12:33 PM, Risker risker...@gmail.com wrote:

 I also find it very interesting.

 I have, however, asked Laura to redact the identifying information of
 one of the editors whose actions are incorporated into this
 research. Research rarely includes publishing identifying information about
 specific individuals, particularly without the direct permission of those
 individuals.  Regardless of what any of us think of the specific editor who
 is named, it behooves us all to act as we would expect to be treated - and
 I'd be pretty ticked if someone published research that included examples
 that identified me by name.

 Risker/Anne

 On 21 November 2014 14:55, Ryan Kaldari rkald...@wikimedia.org wrote:

 A very interesting study, and rather depressing. I love that I'm cited
 as a radical feminist though :)

 On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 9:43 AM, Netha Hussain nethahuss...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Dear all,

  I found an interesting research done by Laura Hale about
 Communicating on Wikipedia while female : A discursive analysis of the 
 use
 of the word cunt on English Wikipedia user talk pages on meta wiki. The
 link to the research page is here:

 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Communicating_on_Wikipedia_while_female

 Regards
 Netha

 -- Forwarded message --
 From: Laura Hale la...@fanhistory.com
 Date: Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 9:57 PM
 Subject: [Wiki-research-l] Communicating on Wikipedia while female
 To: Research into Wikimedia content and communities 
 wiki-researc...@lists.wikimedia.org


 Hey,

 I posted some new research to meta at
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Communicating_on_Wikipedia_while_female
 .  It is titled: Communicating on Wikipedia while female A discursive
 analysis of the use of the word cunt on English Wikipedia user talk pages.
 Thought it might be of some interest to people on this list.

 Sincerely,
 Laura Hale

 --
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 Netha Hussain
 Student of Medicine and Surgery
 Govt. Medical College, Kozhikode
 Blogs :
 *nethahussain.blogspot.com
 http://nethahussain.blogspot.comswethaambari.wordpress.com
 http://swethaambari.wordpress.com*


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Re: [Gendergap] [Research] Communicating on Wikipedia while female

[Kevin Gorman]

Hi all -

I can't tell if Romana's recent message was accidentally allowed to go out
to the whole list or not; apologies if it was, I will be removing him from
the list momentarily.

Best,
Kevin Gorman
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Re: [Gendergap] Moderation and the future of Gendergap-L

[Kevin Gorman]

Unfortunately sites like AVfM and its ilk are something that we really do
have limited ability to directly address on Wikipedia, even though it's
something that has a direct effect on the retention of our editors.  I've
made AVfM and similar sites way more times than I would like to remember,
as have a lot of other editors who work in the topic area, and many women
editors who identify their gender in general.  Even though people can
usually mitigate the effect it has on Wikipedia's content, I don't think
anyone has come up with a remotely effective way to mitigate the effect it
has on the targeted editor.  I know quite a few people who have left the
projects over stuff like this, and can honestly say the only reason I'm
still around is because of the number of good friends I've made on the
projects who I can rely on for emotional* support when I need to, as well
as the fact that I occupy a position of significant societal privilege that
lets me take off-wiki harassment and threats less seriously than people who
aren't in my position can.

I've thought for years that the problem of off-wiki harassment through this
and other means is something that the Foundation will eventually need to
come up with some solution that at least partly mitigates its effects, or
we'll just understandably lose droves of good editors active in topic areas
targeted by it.  I don't know what that solution is, although I found Lane
Raspberry's recent IdeaLab proposal (
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/Community_support_services)
that tried to address the issue to be interesting, and would encourage
anyone with interesting or novel ideas about how to potentially help with
this kind of issue bring them up.  I can't guarantee any eventual funding
decision, but even if you have an idea that needs monetary support to work,
I know this kind of thing is of both interest to the Foundation and of
interest to volunteers serving on WMF grant-making advisory bodies. (Or
alternately, even if you just have an idea but don't have the bandwidth to
help carry out a project about it, I'd encourage you to bring it up, since
other interested people can connect with you about it and help you refine
it, or even just run with it themselves.)

Best,
Kevin Gorman

*And sometimes, other significant forms of support too.  Emily/Keilana,
someone I've met in real life once, recently spent well over an hour trying
to contact local emergency services for me in a situation when my roomates
and I needed to do so but couldn't safely do so.  After I had asked for
help but before I had fully explained what was going on, my wifi blipped
off, and she was literally calling me within six second of me poofing from
the internet.. and then spent a huge amount of time and frustration trying
to resolve the situation.  I can't really put in to words the sort of
feeling provoked by having a Wikimedian who I know almost entirely from
online collaboration willing to drop what she was doing and spend that much
time late at night trying to help us with a situation of that nature.


On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 7:38 PM, Marie Earley eir...@hotmail.com wrote:

 I placed an ANI about the Voice for Men article and the subsequent
 comments.
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:ANI#Off-wiki_comments.2C_possible_multiple_policy_infringements
 The result being:
  We cannot take action for off-Wiki discussions like this. However, an
 announcement on WP:AN about something like this would have been a wise
 idead instead of ANI (but we all know now) - that we we can keep an eye on
 things. Attacking Wikipedia would be a detriment to their cause - so is
 potentially libelous statements about the Foundation's employees - dumb,
 dumb, dumb thing to do. However, by posting about it here, they know that
 we know. Be vigilant :-) 

 I suppose what it does mean is that if insults are hurled about female
 editors off-wiki we can post announcements in WP:AN which begin,
  Based on this ruling
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:ANI#Off-wiki_comments.2C_possible_multiple_policy_infringements
 I to inform the community about...

 I also had some nice posts sent to me on my talk page.

 P.S. I clicked on the link for WP:AN and found this little gem
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:AN#Topic_ban_proposal_for_Gibson_Flying_V
 Depressing but at least it's not all one-way traffic.

 Marie

 --
 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2014 18:46:19 -0400
 From: carolmoor...@verizon.net

 To: gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
 Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Moderation and the future of Gendergap-L

 Re: the below, yes, i was blocked in a situation I thought was biased
 compared to other blocks I've seen. (I didn't mention that originally it
 was a six month block but the community of mostly guys thought that was
 grossly unfair and it was reduced to two weeks.)

 However, in general wikipedia is not half as bad as the Men's rights site
 you mentioned. And in Wikipedia there are Community

Re: [Gendergap] Moderation and the future of Gendergap-L

[Kevin Gorman]

Hi Marie -

Given the fact that you're talking about men's rights activists, by Sarah,
I assume you mean Sarah Stierch?  Both Sarah and myself (we were some of
the earlier Wikipedians to really infuriate MRA's) suffered a good bit of
harassment at various points as a result of our engagement with them.
 We're definitely far from the only people to have experienced harassment
by MRA's or various other groups, and both myself, Sarah, and a large
number of other contributors have experienced at least some harassment
severe enough that I've thought for some time that the Wikimedia Foundation
should attempt to create some sort of contributor support system (as was
most recently brought up as an idea by Lane Raspberry of WP:MED.)  None of
it was at all fun for me to handle, and some of it took significant labor
to deal with - both emotional labor and labor as in actually having to
explain to targeted associates of mine the back story behind the calls and
emails they were getting - and I have significant systemic privilege that
makes the same set of situations much easier and less threatening to deal
with than many other people do. I agree that harassment of contributors, by
fringe elements of the men's rights movement as well as other fringe groups
is a serious problem and that both the Wikimedia movement and the Wikimedia
Foundation need to come up with a better way of triaging and minimizing the
harm that it causes our contributors.

That said, I do want to be clear in saying that Sarah, to the best of my
knowledge, has never been suspended from a position of any sort for making
off-wiki comments.  She was a moderator of this list for quite some time,
but eventually stepped down because this can at times be a very very very
very draining list to moderate - if she ever wanted to become a mod again
here, I'd give her a mod bit back in a heart beat, but I really doubt she
will ever want to again. She's still an active contributor (and
administrator) on the English Wikipedia, and still hosts talks and
editathons about our movement's demographic gaps pretty regularly.  She
does no longer work for the WMF, but the fact that she no longer works
there isn't a result of her political views or offsite comments, and a
great number of current WMF staffers still have tremendous respect for her.

I was near the pre-scheduled end-date of an internship at the Wikimedia
Foundation right around the time that Sarah and I riled up men's rights
activists for the first time (it's been a number of years at this point)
through making the article about their movement more in compliance with
ENWP's encyclopedic content policies than it previously had been.  It was
definitely an issue that came up with me in the office that week (partly
because it had made Jezebel; partly because people were contacting the
office,) and I will say that I don't think I can fault the behavior of a
single WMF staff member regarding the situation.  They were tremendously
more accomodating than I can imagine most other workplaces being in such
circumstances - the rest of my time there included a large number of people
repeatedly making sure that I was doing okay/checking if I needed
anything/thanking me for publicly standing up for what I thought was right.

I don't want to dissect past situations in great detail, but I do think the
mod team has made significant errors in how we've chosen to moderate the
list in the past (and I accept a plurality if not an outright majority of
blame for that,) that was significantly detrimental to fostering a free,
open, and safe environment where conversations related to the purpose of
the list could occur.  We can't change the past, but hopefully we'll be
able to help guide the list in a more beneficial direction in the future.

Best,
Kevin Gorman


On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 11:06 AM, Marie Earley eir...@hotmail.com wrote:

 I'm not sure if I would agree with the word 'error', Wikipedia happens in
 a context, which is where all these discussions began, with the cautionary
 tale article about Quora
 http://www.zdnet.com/quoras-misogyny-problem-a-cautionary-tale-730762/

 Away from Wikipedia I'm a member of the No More Page 3 campaign trying to
 get rid of the topless glamour model photo which is published in Murdoch's
 UK Sun newspaper. The petition reads:
 We are asking David Dinsmore to drop the bare boobs from The Sun
 newspaper. We are asking very nicely. Please, David. No More Page 3. etc.
 The petition is approaching 200,000 signatures and there are NMP3
 t-shirts, media attention but our Facebook page gets hit by trolls.
 Blocking is a last resort by admins but it becomes inevitable. The MRA has
 set up a Laughing at No More Page 3 Facebook
 https://www.facebook.com/pages/Laughing-at-No-more-page-3/262437737259691
 page and take pictures / posts from NMP3's page and re-post them with
 personally insulting comments. When you click on the names of those posting
 comments their other liked groups invariably include

[Gendergap] Leigh Honeywell is now a mod

[Kevin Gorman]

Hi all -

After the email I sent out to the list earlier, Leigh Honeywell offered to
be a mod.  She's a mod on the Ubuntu Women list as well as various IRC
channels, has started multiple physical hackerspaces and is involved in
DoubleUnion in SF as well as the Ada Iniatiative, and has a blog and
twitter account both quite worth reading.  I'll let her cover the rest of
her introduction, but welcome Leigh :)

Best,
Kevin Gorman
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Re: [Gendergap] men on lists

[Kevin Gorman]

Hi all -

Speaking as one of the list moderators, I unfortunately don't always have
time to proactively reach out to problematic members, or even to read all
list traffic on a timely basis at all times.  (For instance, because I'm in
the process of setting up a new house - I haven't read the thread that this
thread is about fully, although I intend to do so shortly.)  I would like
to state that I agree with Val's last email (and thank you, Val, for
sending it out.)  If there is a problematic situation that the list
moderators have missed (which are currently me, Sue Gardner - who tends to
be busy enough to not be an active moderator, and Liz Kent,) I would
encourage anyone concerned about it to bring it to our direct attention by
emailing one of us individually, or by emailing
gendergap-ow...@lists.wikimedia.org, which will email all three of us.  If
you are interested in becoming a moderator, I'd also invite you to email us
- unfortunately, since Cynthia passed, we're down one moderator from where
we normally are.

I can't speak of the moderation of other lists, but from memory, this list
has had around four people removed or moderated for making misogynistic
comments, one person removed for the combination of making anti-male
comments and generally problematic behavior (the person in question, after
being called out on their original comments, spammed the list moderators
with seven or eight completely profanity filled emails,) two people removed
for general assholery/generally disruptive behavior, and a number of other
people warned privately who subsequently improved their behavior.  Of the
people who have been removed or moderated, probably three of them have
involved proactive action taken by the list mods, and the rest have been
pointed out to us at times when we were ourselves not keeping up with all
list traffic.  We're the most proactively moderated Wikimedia list as far
as I know, but given the special nature of this list, I think all of us
would be more than open to moderating more aggressively.

I'll try to pay more attention to this list than I have been over the last
few months, and will try to take a more proactive moderation stance.  At
the same time, if I do miss someone's problematic behavior, I'd encourage a
list member to point it out to me (or another mod) and not assume that I
don't consider the behavior problematic.  An overwhelming majority of the
time, I'll agree that the behavior is problematic once it's pointed out to
me - I probably just hadn't seen it yet because I often run low enough on
spoons to be unable to keep up with listserv traffic in real time.

Anyway... afk to go read the thread that started this thread.

Best,
Kevin Gorman


On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 6:29 AM, Valerie Aurora vale...@adainitiative.org
wrote:

 Hi Derric,

 This list is not for the purpose of improving people's communication
 skills. If you would like to help women in Wikimedia projects and you
 know that you have difficulty communicating without offending people,
 working on your communication skills in another venue is a good first
 step. A good second step is to search the internet for resources on
 ally skills.

 To be crystal clear: you will not be helping women in Wikipedia by
 continuing to ask for help from anyone on this list or centering
 yourself in the discussion.

 -VAL

 On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 10:05 AM, Derric Atzrott
 datzr...@alizeepathology.com wrote:
  Would anybody object to me hijacking this thread to use as a sort of
 meta thread for what just happened?  I have further questions and things to
 explain and get feedback on.  I can start another thread if wanted.
 
  This whole situation sort of reminds me of when I tried suggesting on
 Wikitech-l that people make use of NVC and people were really offended.
  Like there my intention was never to come off as condescending, but
 apparently I am just really awful at not coming off that way via email.
  I'd like to work on that and also find out what sort of things men on this
 list can do to make the environment better are and in specific myself.  I
 think a polite discussion of what just happened would help advance all of
 those goals.
 
  Thank you,
  Derric Atzrott
 
 
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 You can help increase the participation of women in open technology and
 culture!
 Donate today at http://adainitiative.org/donate/

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Re: [Gendergap] A cautionary tale

[Kevin Gorman]

Hi all -

Although this thread has gone pretty far from perfectly as a whole, it has
comforted me to see a number of people contribute to the thread who haven't
been active on this list in quite a while.  I'm going to send out a couple
separate emails apart from this - but would like to thank the contributors
who have popped in to this thread to post their thoughts who have been
inactive for some period of time.  I can't guarantee I will be able to
consistently do so, but will make a stronger effort to keep up on
gendergap-l traffic going forward, and also to try to help ensure that any
obstacles that currently discourage women from participating in this list
are mitigated, moderated, or if push comes to shove, removed from this
individual community at least.

Best,
Kevin Gorman


On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 2:09 AM, Marie Earley eir...@hotmail.com wrote:

 Apologies for long post but, as another example of external pressure often
 being able to get to do more than internal, I'd like to relate the
 following experience.


 In October 2008 I joined TriggerStreet.com (now Trigger Street Labs
 http://labs.triggerstreet.com/). It is a website set up by Kevin Spacey
 and his business partner Dana Brunetti, their film production company made 
 *The
 Social Network* and *Captain Phillips*.

 The idea of the website is for members to read each others screenplays /
 short stories, watch each other's short films and give feedback. You earn
 credits for reviewing material and spend them on adding your own material
 to the site, you can also add additional credits to 'push' your work nearer
 to the top of the pile waiting to be reviewed.

 The website also has discussion forums, I was shocked, not only by the
 comments on display but also by the attitude of moderators. In one early
 exchange the word 'fa**ots' was used to describe gay people, the thread was
 locked but no action was taken against the perpetrator. I e-mailed the
 moderator asking why, he wrote back to me saying, As a gay man myself I am
 sympathetic to your comments, (I hadn't known he was gay until he replied)
 but as a moderator, I have now locked the thread and it will now slide
 down the boards.

 Discussing the policy on how the site was run on the boards was a complete
 NO-NO, there was just a general rule about 'not feeding trolls'. Another
 thread I was involved with concerned a discussion about Julian Assange
 there was lively discussion as to whether he was a hero or a villain, but
 it was civil. Out of nowhere there was a comment, Why can't we get back to
 talking about porn and masturbation. Everyone ignored this, the
 conversation went on, there were two further attempts by the same poster
 asking the same thing, he then began his own thread entitled the Porn and
 masturbation thread. Not only was nothing done, in a (very, very naughty)
 thread suggesting more ought to be done to prevent such behaviour, Dana
 Brunetti in particular stated that he didn't want the site to become
 sanitized and he didn't want it to turn into Orwell's *1984* - to an
 approving chorus of Dana's right from other members.

 Just like Wikipedia there is no way of blocking other users, and, again
 like Wikipedia, the nature of what the website was set up to do may mean
 that it is impractical. It was all compounded for me by the screenplay of
 the month feature where the winner was displayed on the home page (since
 replaced by featured short film, featured short story and featured
 screenplay). I watched winners include Mr. fa**ots and, another month,
 Mr. porn and masturbation thread. The name of the screenplay of the month
 winner and their avatar were also displayed, this prompted one winner to
 change his avatar to two women in bikinis kissing. Cue a congratulatory
 thread to the male writer in his early 20s plus a side helping of nice
 avatar btw. One bigot had his screenplay optioned by a studio - so much
 for ignoring trolls.

 The website also had an industry podcast each week usually featuring Dana
 and Vice-President of Trigger Street, Carter Swan. One week they said that
 there were going to be big changes including revamping the website, and
 anyone who didn't like the new changes could f*** off. One of the changes
 was to get rid of the plays section (and with it all the credits I had
 gathered). One of the other changes was to have a lot more podcasts from a
 purpose built studio. A fashion podcast, a music podcast, one for comic
 enthusiasts and one featuring the porn star Kayden Kross, reviewing a
 different film each week.

 I complained (by e-mail - no dissent allowed on the forums remember), I
 was ignored, so then I tried a different tactic. I wrote to various groups
 dealing with domestic violence that were based in Southwark, London (home
 of the Old Vic where Spacey is the Artistic Director), asking them to lobby
 Kevin Spacey at the Old Vic. I also wrote to all the e-mail addresses
 within the Old Vic that I could find. It worked the other

Re: [Gendergap] Lila Tretikov named to Forbes 100 most powerful women list

[Kevin Gorman]

Well that's quite a quick leap :)  I randomly barged in to Lila in an
elevator a couple weeks ago (in all seriousness), and had a brief
conversation with her.  I am quite excited to see what the transition
brings.

Best,
Kevin Gorman


On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 2:50 PM, Risker risker...@gmail.com wrote:

 This is a pretty impressive showing for someone just 4 weeks into the job:
 being named to the Forbes list of the 100 most powerful women:
 http://www.forbes.com/profile/lila-tretikov/

 Note that increasing diversity is, according to the brief article, a top
 priority.

 Risker/Anne

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Re: [Gendergap] Blogger and Wikipedian Adrianne Wadewitz died while rock-climbing

[Kevin Gorman]

I've mostly been silent about the loss of Adrianne and Cindy publicly,
because I've mostly not had any idea what to say.  I'd been working with
both on various projects for quite a while, and had a multi-hour skype call
with Adrianne in the recent past about the gendergap and education outreach
efforts.  I've rarely met a Wikimedian as passionate about making the world
a better place than Adrianne.  Cindy and Adrianne will both be terribly,
terribly missed.  I wish I had the eloquence that has been put forth by
other people in various places, but right now a large part of me is still
just trying to process.


Kevin Gorman


On Sat, Apr 12, 2014 at 2:13 AM, Shlomi Fish shlo...@shlomifish.org wrote:

 On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 16:51:17 +0200
 Jane Darnell jane...@gmail.com wrote:

  This is to inform you that one of the contributors to this list who
  spent a lot of time working on the Gendergap issue and ways to solve
  it, has died in a rock-climbing accident.
  http://femtechnet.newschool.edu/blog/adrianne-wadewitz/
 

 I'm terribly sorry to hear that. My condolences go to whoever knew her -
 online or in real life.

 Regards,

 Shlomi Fish

 --
 -
 Shlomi Fish   http://www.shlomifish.org/
 Optimising Code for Speed - http://shlom.in/optimise

 There is no IGLU Cabal. The problem of founding an IGLU Cabal has been
 proven,
 in a surprise move, to be equivalent to the question of the existence of
 God,
 fully‐tolerant religions and NP‐complete oracles.   — Omer Zak

 Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .

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Re: [Gendergap] How to Acknowledge an all-male panel.

[Kevin Gorman]

I don't have links handy offhand, but there are a number of similar efforts
in both tech and non-tech fields in the US to what Merle linked - I'll try
to put together a page of useful links to such resources and slip it in
somewhere on meta when I have the time.

Best,
Kevin Gorman


On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 6:45 AM, Merle Wittich
merle.witt...@wikimedia.dewrote:

 Hey,

 in Germany some women were so annoyed by all male panels that they started
 a homepage to find female speakers and moderators for conferences.
 Take a look at https://www.speakerinnen.org/en

 The site is also available (to some extent) in English, but at the moment
 most of those women are based in Germany (and Austria/Switzerland). Most of
 the women speak German as mother tongue, but the individual profile
 indicates the language capabilities.



 Best,
 Merle

 Merle von Wittich
 Werksstudentin
 --

 Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin
 Tel. +49 30 219158 26-0

 http://wikimedia.de

 Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
 Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter
 der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für
 Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.



 2014-04-07 21:39 GMT+02:00 Samuel Klein meta...@gmail.com:

 Thanks for asking, and thinking about it.
 You (and that panel topic :) are the best.SJ

 On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 2:14 PM, Maximilian Klein isa...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  Thank you all for your advice,
 
  This has given me some ideas about how to better ask in the future.
  Actually, I see from asking here, that __asking__ for help is one very
 good
  way to get.
 
  Best,
 
  Max Klein
  http://notconfusing.com/
 
 
  On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 5:36 PM, Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.com
  wrote:
 
  +infinity Sam
 
  Thanks for your efforts! It's a great representation of the ally
  mentality!
 
  -Sarah
 
 
 
  On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 5:33 PM, Samuel Klein meta...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
  Hi Max, this is surprising to hear!  In my experience, Librarians
 and OA
  repository managers, at least in the US and commonwealth countries,
 are
  majority female.  Any one of them would fit nicely on such a panel.
  Have
  you tried asking for candidates at lib-tech events?
 
  I recommend noting in your proposal that you are looking for an
  additional or alternate panelist, if you are indeed doing so; you
 have some
  time before finalizing the roster.
 
  A tangent: I ask who will be on panels with me and decline requests
 to be
  on all-male panels (also suggesting women to invite where I can).
  This is
  one way for men to help session organizers improve their search-space
 for
  speakers.
 
  Warmly,
  Sam
 
 
  On Apr 2, 2014 6:40 PM, Maximilian Klein isa...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  Hello Gender Gap,
 
  With some collaborators, I submitted this panel for Wikimania 2014
  Reform of citation structure for all Wikimedia project [1].
 Despite my
  best efforts (and continuing efforts), I couldn't find any non-men
 to be on
  the panel. I asked each of the potential panelists if they knew any
 other
  qualified speakers (not specifically women, just other people),
 asked my old
  colleagues, put a call out on social media. But it just ended up
 being
  all-men.
 
  Is it desirable to write something to the effect of we are cognizant
  this is an all-male panel, and would like to change the underlying
 factors
  as a preamble to the submissions? And if so, what is the right way?
 
  Best,
 
  [1]
 
 http://wikimania2014.wikimedia.org/wiki/Submissions/Reform_of_citation_structure_for_all_Wikimedia_projects
 
  Max Klein
  http://notconfusing.com/
 
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  Gendergap mailing list
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  ___
  Gendergap mailing list
  Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
  https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
 
 
 
 
  --
 
  Sarah Stierch
 
  -
 
  Diverse and engaging consulting for your organization.
 
  www.sarahstierch.com
 
 
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  https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
 
 
 
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 --
 Samuel Klein  @metasj   w:user:sj  +1 617 529
 4266

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Re: [Gendergap] Wiki email lists ever address these issues?

[Kevin Gorman]

Hi Carol -

Wikien-l is generally a fairly low trafficked list, I think I get an email
or two a month from it.  Unfortunately as far as I know there hasn't been
any terribly significant discussion of gendergap issues (barring the German
flurry a while ago) in the recent past on public lists, although a number
of different sets of people have been organizing to try to address
different parts of the problem privately.

Best,
Kevin Gorman


On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 9:00 AM, Carol Moore dc carolmoor...@verizon.netwrote:

 Just wondering if I should temporarily join a Wikipedia email list to
 share some concrete suggestions about improving compliance with various
 abused policies.

 Found
 https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

 Knowing at some point I'd end up mentioning gender issues if I joined, I
 wondered - have any lists discussed the gender gap issue much or at all
 since the initial flurry two years ago?

 Carol in dc

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Re: [Gendergap] German Wikipedia: straw poll against woman rights

[Kevin Gorman]

Hi Bob -

Unfortunately I both don't speak German, and don't have the time to go
through a long and messy RfC on the subject in a language I don't
understand currently.  However the issue as it has been framed in your
original post certainly sounds concerning.  If you have the time (and I
certainly understand if you dont,) would you be willing to provide a
slightly more in depth summary fo what's going on currently.

Thanks,
Kevin Gorman
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[Gendergap] Fwd: [GLAM-US] Position: Wikipedia Affiliate, Roy Rosenzweig Center for History and New Media

[Kevin Gorman]

Hi all -

George Mason University just posted a one year position for a remote
Wikipedia Affiliate.  It's unpaid, but that's not the point: if selected,
you'll have full access to GMU's library resources, including access (via
proxy) to their electronic journals.  There's a huge amount of important
content that currently only exists behind paywalled journals.  If you write
frequently in a field where you find your ability to write restricted by
your lack of access to sources, I would highly encourage you to apply for
this.  It's worth noting that, besides for improving twenty five articles
of historical significance and giving a brief talk about how you used your
access at the end of the year, there is pretty much no further 'work'
associated with the position.

After I lost my student access to journals, I lucked in to a not dissimilar
arrangement with another major research university, and it's been
absolutely invaluable - there are things I couldn't possibly write about
without access to paywalled journals.

Kevin Gorman

-- Forwarded message --
From: Proffitt,Merrilee proff...@oclc.org
Date: Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 10:51 AM
Subject: [GLAM-US] Position: Wikipedia Affiliate, Roy Rosenzweig Center for
History and New Media
To: Wikimedia  GLAM collaboration [Public] g...@lists.wikimedia.org,
Wikimedia  Libraries librar...@lists.wikimedia.org, North American
Cultural Partnerships glam...@lists.wikimedia.org


Hi everyone,

This is an exciting announcement for those interested in the Wikipedia
Libraries Project. For those of you working in libraries (or anyone wanting
to attend!) we are having a meeting at the American Libraries Association
midwinter meeting in Philadelphia (Saturday January 25th). We have a number
of academic libraries who are interested in supporting Wikipedians in this
novel way. Hopefully a lot more to report in the new year!

Merrilee

-Original Message-
From: open-glam [mailto:open-glam-boun...@lists.okfn.org] On Behalf Of
Amanda French
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2013 12:21 PM
To: open-g...@lists.okfn.org
Subject: [OpenGLAM] Position: Wikipedia Affiliate, Roy Rosenzweig Center
for History and New Media

Position announcement: Wikipedia Affiliate, Roy Rosenzweig Center for
History and New Media

(also posted at
http://chnm.gmu.edu/news/position-announcement-wikipedia-affiliate-roy-rosenzweig-center-for-history-and-new-media/
)


In conjunction with The Wikipedia Library
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:The_Wikipedia_Library project,
the Roy Rosenzweig Center for History and New Media
http://chnm.gmu.edu/ (RRCHNM) at George Mason University is seeking
applicants for a Wikipedia Affiliate.€  This is an unpaid, year-long,
remote research position beginning March 1, 2014 and ending February 28,
2015 that entitles the affiliate to full library privileges at George
Mason University http://library.gmu.edu/, including proxied access to
all online materials to which the GMU Libraries subscribe: more than 400
databases, thousands of scholarly journals and mainstream periodicals,
and hundreds of ebooks. The position is designed to give research
library access to a Wikipedia editor who does not currently have such
access or who has only limited access to scholarly resources: the
purpose of the position is to help improve Wikipedia's reliability and
accuracy by providing Wikipedia editors with access to the best
scholarly information resources while providing a model for other
universities to do likewise.


  Qualifications

The affiliate will be an experienced Wikipedia editor with at least one
year of regular activity contributing to Wikipedia on historical topics
in any field, region, or period. The affiliate will also be a thorough
researcher who is committed to improving Wikipedia articles by
consulting and citing reliable, scholarly sources and who is a lucid
writer of text for Wikipedia encyclopedia articles on historical topics.
An undergraduate or graduate degree in History, Art History, or a
related discipline is desirable but not required.


  Position Description and Duties

During the affiliate year, the affiliate will conduct scholarly research
using the library resources of George Mason University with the aim of
significantly improving the accuracy and reliability of at least 25
Wikipedia articles on historical topics, preferably articles within a
particular historical scope (for example: modern Russian and Soviet
history, U.S. Civil War history, the history of late imperial China).
Near the end of the affiliate year, the affiliate will write a brief
report listing the Wikipedia articles he or she has contributed to and
improved over the course of the year, describing how his or her access
to GMU library resources has helped increase the reliability of
Wikipedia on this topic and analyzing whether the affiliate program
could serve as a model for other universities. The affiliate will also
be asked to give a brief talk on the same subject

[Gendergap] moderation update

[Kevin Gorman]

Hey all -

Unfortunately, we've become the target of some pretty serious spammers.
 I've been getting a very large number of held for moderation email
messages each day, and only one in a hundred are legitimate messages.  I'm
going to adjust our spam filters later tonight to hopefully let a higher
number of the messages that are legitimate through, but after that, I'm
going to start autofiltering the spam notifications out and not reading
them.  I hate to do so, but there are just too many of them.

If you send a message to the list and it doesn't get through, please email
me personally so I can approve it.  Additionally, if you're a member who
has been moderated and send an email to the list, please drop me a personal
email as well, so that I can approve it.

Thanks,
Kevin Gorman
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Re: [Gendergap] Equanity and Sameness

[Kevin Gorman]

Powers answer is pretty much what my answer was going to be had I not
fallen asleep before I had the time to compose a full response.  I view
invalidating someone else's gender identity as a pretty egregious violation
of the safe space that this list should, ideally, be.  I say gender
identity instead of identity as a woman because I intend the statement
to apply to all genders; I'm not okay with someone invalidating someone's
identity as a woman, someone's identity as a man, or any other gender
identity someone on this list may have.  The context I would imagine this
being most likely to come up in on this list is where someone's gender
identity doesn't match their birth sex, but that's certainly not the only
context I can see it being a problem in. If a situation comes up where
someone is clearly attempting to invalidate someone's gender identity not
out of ignorance or as a slip-up (heck, I've used the wrong pronoun for one
of my housemates at least once this week,) but out of more sinister
motives, then things are, in fact, likely to go BOOM.  But, as has been
outlined in pretty much every discussion of the moderation of this list
previously, no one needs to worry about being moderated for making a
mistake, or for being unfamiliar with a concept.

The only thing that moderation actions taken on this list try to promote
(and there have been very few of them) is an environment where members feel
safe, comfortable contributing, and don't feel like they are being
viciously personally attacked or having fundamental aspects of their being
brought in to question.  Since you brought up the question as to whether
women are involved in these decisions, I guess I might as well state that
although I have often been the person actually putting people on +mod, I've
never done so without consulting with at least four or five people
beforehand, most of those people are women, and I typically am inclined
towards less drastic action than any of the people I speak with beforehand
are - and if they disagreed with me that something was appropriate to
moderate for, I wouldn't moderate on it.

But... The point of my previous post here wasn't to suggest any sort of
impending moderation action against anyone for anything whatsoever, but
rather to point out that John was levying a rather serious accusation at a
moment when it wasn't supported. I had a pretty good idea of what
'aviatrix' meant (which, iirc, was one of the initial words under
discussion here,) but in all honesty I had to look it up before I was sure
I was right.  I feel like there's a world of difference between wondering
whether or not we should be using archaic terms like aviatrix in the
encyclopedia and invalidating someone's personal gender identity, and I
really strongly feel that it is actively significantly counterproductive to
conflate the two.

---
Kevin Gorman


On Sun, Sep 22, 2013 at 5:44 AM, Powers ltpowers_w...@rochester.rr.comwrote:

 I'll leave the rest of your post to the others on this list, but I can
 answer this question:

  What is it I am allowed to say about my gender identity or
  anyone elses and what is it I am not allowed to say?

 You can say anything you want about your own gender identity.  What you
 cannot (politely) do is contradict what someone else says about his or her
 own gender identity.

 So if someone (anyone, not just a list participant) says I'm a woman and I
 always have been, you should never say No, you aren't.  Nor That person
 is only pretending to be a woman.  Nor He may feel like a woman but until
 he's taken a legal or surgical procedure, he's a man.

 It's that simple.


 Powers  8^]



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Re: [Gendergap] Equanity and Sameness

[Kevin Gorman]

Hi John -

I'm tired so I could have just missed someting, but I'm not not really sure
how you got your post out of Emily's post, or for that matter, out of the
rest of the thread.  A discussion about archaic gendered terminology (and
face it, aviatrix is archaic) is not an attempt to define all genders as
the same, and equally, it is not an attempt to invalidate anyone's gender
identity.  Invalidating someone's gender identity is a very serious
problem; please don't suggest that someone has done so without very clearly
explaining what you mean. (And by serious problem, I mean that if I see a
situation occur on this list where I honestly feel that someone is
attempting to invalidate someone else's gender identity, things are going
to go BOOM.)

Thanks,
Kevin Gorman


On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 8:05 PM, john allyn jadd...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Somehow you appear to think that equality and sameness are synonymous. It
 is not possible to close the gender gap by defining male and female as the
 same. This kind of thinking will drive the wedge deeper because each will
 be invalidated for who they are.

   --
  *From:* gendergap-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org 
 gendergap-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org
 *To:* gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
 *Sent:* Tuesday, September 17, 2013 6:00 AM
 *Subject:* Gendergap Digest, Vol 32, Issue 10

 Send Gendergap mailing list submissions to
 gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org

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 https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
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 Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Gendergap Digest, Vol 32, Issue 9 (john allyn)
   2. Re: Gendergap Digest, Vol 32, Issue 9 (Emily Monroe)


 --

 Message: 1
 Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 14:21:07 -0700 (PDT)
 From: john allyn jadd...@yahoo.com
 To: gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
 Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Gendergap Digest, Vol 32, Issue 9
 Message-ID:
 1379366467.96269.yahoomail...@web120001.mail.ne1.yahoo.com
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

 Somehow you appear to think that equality and sameness are synonymous. It
 is not possible to close the gender gap by defining male and female as the
 same. This kind of thinking will drive the wedge deeper because each will
 be invalidated for who they are.




 
 From: gendergap-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org 
 gendergap-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org
 To: gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
 Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 6:00 AM
 Subject: Gendergap Digest, Vol 32, Issue 9


 Send Gendergap mailing list submissions to
 gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org

 To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
 https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
 or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
 gendergap-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org

 You can reach the person managing the list at
 gendergap-ow...@lists.wikimedia.org

 When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
 than Re: Contents of Gendergap digest...


 Today's Topics:

1. Re: Archaic gendered terminology (Lane Rasberry)


 --

 Message: 1
 Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 15:43:47 -0400
 From: Lane Rasberry l...@bluerasberry.com
 To: Addressing gender equity and exploring ways to increase the
 participationof women within Wikimedia projects.
 gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
 Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Archaic gendered terminology
 Message-ID:
 cajb6kh5slckco9bfb4lhjcf+njkacmno6xnk+mk0ehkuaez...@mail.gmail.com
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

 Hello,

 I expect that many people will continue to use the term actress for
 females in the profession. I notice that the Amy Johnson discussion raises
 that.

 A couple of years ago I got to review an elementary English textbook being
 distributed in very large numbers in North India. It was an original work
 seemingly derived from public domain content and had a section on gendered
 nouns, including negro and negress. I looked at the time for a style
 guide on best practices for gendered term and I could not find anything
 clear when I looked then, but obviously there is bad information to be
 found online among the public domain texts and it really grated on me that
 new print works were being distributed to teach children such things.

 We might not be so far from the day when someone could publish a Wikipedia
 Manual of Style and expect it to be an authoritative text. I am not sure
 what the right answer is in this case but whatever you find please consider

[Gendergap] The Ada Initiative's Fundraising effort is down to its last few days

[Kevin Gorman]

Hi all -

Normally I would hesitate to spam the list with info about a non-Wikimedia
related org's fundraising campaign, but the Ada Initiative does really
amazing work - and work that is not only directly related to but has had a
direct effect on closing the gender gap in open tech, Wikimedia projects
included.

They're the people behind the Wikimedia Foundation's friendly spaces
policies - and also the people behind many other anti-harrassment policies
implemented at prominent tech conferences in recent years.  They've also
hosted a series of events aimed at both empowering women in open tech, and
at ensuring that open tech can be as inclusive an environment as possible.

I've seen their work firsthand, and it is both impressive, efficacious, and
frugal.  If you are in a position where you can support their efforts, I
would encourage you to do so (even if that just means signal boosting this
post to other lists.)  I honestly believe that the Ada Initiative is one of
the most effective organizations operating in this sphere.

Here are three blog posts from long-time Wikimedians - Brion Vibber, Sumana
Harihareswara, and Briana Laugher - explaining why they've chosen to
support the Ada Initiative.  I hope that after reading their words and
mine, you'll choose to do the same.

https://brionv.com/log/2013/08/27/ada-initiative-help-support-women-and-everybody-else-in-open-source/
http://www.harihareswara.net/sumana/2013/08/21/0
http://brianna.laugher.id.au/blog/85/the-ada-initiative-supporting-those-who-have-supported-me

Thanks,
Kevin Gorman
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[Gendergap] coverage of women philosophers on ENWP

[Kevin Gorman]

Hi all -

Lately, after noticing how few biographies of women philosophers ENWP has,
I have started trying to address the gap in some small way.  Until this
week (when I wrote it) we didn't even have a bio on Alison Jaggar, the
person who was largely responsible for the first women's studies department
in the world, and the person who probably taught the first class in
feminist philosophy *ever*.

I would like to eventually create a new Wikiproject on the model of
Keilana's Wikiproject Women Scientists, but for now I've started a
coordination page in my userspace [1] aimed at trying to improve our
coverage of notable women philosophers.  I would invite any of you who have
the time to help improve our coverage to do so, either by writing an
article about a notable woman philosopher who currently doesn't have one,
improving the article of one who does, adding another name to the list of
redlinks currently on my page, or in any way you can think of.

Thanks,
Kevin Gorman

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Kevin_Gorman/philosophers
(WP:ACADEMIC and WP:AUTHOR are the generally relevant notability
guidelines.)
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Re: [Gendergap] the results of an editathon at an all women's cooperative in Berkeley

[Kevin Gorman]

I'll be keeping an eye on the articles, as well as following up with the
participants - I ended up knowing most of them personally from other
contexts, anyway.  From talking to them, I suspect this event will have
resulted in the recruitment of at least a couple of long-term content
editors :)  I was especially surprised that Margaret Davies didn't have an
article already - besides for her co-op work (well, really as a part of it) she
was also instrumental in reforming British divorce law, and her work was
generally regarded as the critical catalyst for the legal changes that
allowed British women access to divorce on an equal basis to that of
British men.


Kevin Gorman


On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 12:20 AM, Jane Darnell jane...@gmail.com wrote:

 Kevin,
 Thanks for posting! Is anyone keeping an eye on developments with
 these articles or any list of redlinks you may have created in
 discussions? It would be really helpful to see how this develops over
 time and especially helpful to find out if any of these women become
 editors in the long run.
 Jane

 2013/4/7, Kevin Gorman kgor...@gmail.com:
  Hi all -
 
  Today I helped run an editathon at an all-women's cooperative in
 Berkeley.
  We attracted maybe fifteen or twenty people over the course of the day,
 and
  focused most of our editing on prominent historical women active in the
  cooperative movement.  I think we created a number of neat articles,
  although they all have a lot of room for improvement (which hopefully
 will
  be coming in part from our new editors - engagement was much higher than
 I
  am used to for an event like this!) We also improved a number of existing
  articles.
 
  These are the articles we created:
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_Acland
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanzania_Federation_of_Co-operatives
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Llewelyn_Davies
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_Webb_(Co-operative_Activist)
 
  There's little information about most of these women online, but there's
 an
  awful lot available in books.  The sources we had today would've allowed
 us
  to expand the articles a lot further than we did, but we were operating
  under some time constraints (plus the whole teaching people wikicode
 part.)
   If anyone is further interested in expanding these articles (especially
  those about Alice, Margaret, or Catherine,) there's a huge amount of
  information available about them in these books:
  *The woman with the basket; the history of the Women's Co-operative
 Guild,
  1883-1927. By Catherine Webb
  *The matriarchs of England's cooperative movement : a study in gender
  politics and female leadership, 1883-1921 / Barbara J. Blaszak
  *Feminism and the politics of working women : the Women's Co-operative
  Guild, 1880s to the Second War Main
  *Caring  Sharing, the Centenary History of the Co-operative Women's
 Guild
 
  As well as information in a decent number of other books, though not
  much available online.  If anyone feels like improving these articles
  further, it'd be awesome, and we'll get to improving them ourselves
  eventually otherwise :)
 
  Just figured I'd share some happiness,
  Kevin Gorman
 

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[Gendergap] IEG proposal related to women philosophy

[Kevin Gorman]

Hi all -

A draft of an individual engagement grant proposal was just posted to
meta-wiki focused on improving the English Wikipedia's coverage of
topics that lay at the intersection of women and philosophy.  If
approved, I'll be working on the project, along with Alex Madva and
Katie Gasdaglis. (Both Alex and Katie are members of this list,
although I don't know if they've actually posted here before.)  Alex
and Katie don't have a lot of content edits on any of the Wikimedia
projects yet, but we've been talking about trying to conduct a project
like this for a number of months, and they're pretty well-versed in
issues related to demographic and coverage gaps on Wikipedia, and are
also familiar with previous efforts to bring the academy and Wikipedia
closer together.  Alex is a Mellon Postdoctoral Fellow in philosophy
at UC Berkeley, and Katie is finishing up her PhD in philosophy at
Columbia.

The basic idea behind our proposal is to engage in a few separate
forms of outreach to the academy in an effort to improve the English
Wikipedia's coverage of topics that lay at the intersection of women
and philosophy,  including feminist philosophy, gender and race
theory, scholarly work by women and other minority philosophers,
philosophical topics that are historically underrepresented or
marginalized because of their association with stigmatized groups
(including women and minorities), and biographical articles on women
and other minority philosophers themselves.  We'll be reaching out to
instructors in targeted disciplines to encourage their classes to
participate in the education program, and developing reusable
resources very explicitly tailored towards how to best contribute to
Wikipedia as a member of a class that is focused on an
underrepresented area of philosophy. (We intend to only have a limited
number of instructors and students participate, to ensure that we'll
be able to handle any extra workload the project creates and to ensure
that we only accept instructors who are excited about the project and
are willing to put in enough time to do it right.)  We'll also be
reaching out to academic philosophers from subfields currently
underrepresented on Wikipedia and encouraging them to participate
directly (including us hosting trainings, producing material
specifically geared towards making their transition in to Wikipedia
easier, placing blog posts in appropriate places, etc.) We will also
be soliciting feedback from academics about any policy issues they see
that could be damaging ENWP's ability to eventually cover
underrepresented areas adequately - one thing that has come up so far
is the possibility that the academic notability guidelines may be
missing criteria that are highly indicative of a philosopher being
notable.  If anything of this nature shows up, we'll try to get the
academic who perceives a problem to make a public articulation of it,
so that we can bring their thoughts about it to ENWP's community.

We've been talking about these ideas with a number of professors from
several different universities, and a lot of them are quite excited
about it.  I think that this has the potential to go a long ways
towards addressing ENWP's lack of coverage in our targeted content
areas, and will hopefully also create an outreach model that can be
replicated in other underrepresented disciplines and on other
Wikimedia projects in the future - we'll be documenting everything we
do meticulously.  We'd welcome any comments/questions/concerns/etc
about the project, either posted here or on the talk page of the
proposal.

You can read the grant proposal here:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Wikipedia_on_the_Margins:_Women,_Minorities,_and_Philosophy


Kevin Gorman

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Re: [Gendergap] Apologies from the Parlympic Games Opening Ceremonies for making others uncomfortable

[Kevin Gorman]

I am sorry to see Laura go.   Her leaving the list was not requested
by the mod team here, and was not the desired or expected outcome of
my interaction with her. She's welcome back at any point that she
would like to resubscribe.

Sarah and I have recently been approached by people in private
indicating that Laura's posting style has made them uncomfortable
participating in public discussions on this list.  After talking with
Sarah, I sent Laura an email asking her to step back and consider if
her messages could make others uncomfortable before sending them out,
and asking her to take into consideration other people's feedback when
they offer it.  (She's not the only member who we've sent a similar
message to.)

---
Kevin Gorman

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Re: [Gendergap] *thread kill* Re: Apologies from the Parlympic Games Opening Ceremonies for making others uncomfortable

[Kevin Gorman]

Beria was correct that this list has not had a particularly welcoming
atmosphere to women outside of the US.  I would go further and say
that this list has not had a particularly welcoming atmosphere to
anyone in the recent past, regardless of gender or place of residence.

I have hated the idea of having to use technical means of moderation
on this list.  I've previously felt and hoped that relying on our
shared humanity and our common desire to ameliorate what is an
incredibly significant problem for the Wikimedia movement - and I
think for the globe - would be enough to restore a safe atmosphere to
this list.  It has become clear that this is not the case.

Beria has been unsubscribed from this list, and will remain so for the
indefinite future.  This is the first time that any of us have ever
used the listserv admin toolkit, except to remove spambots and for
maintenance work.  I hope it will be the last time.  But going
forward, I'm no longer okay sacrificing the ability of this list to
have potentially productive discussions just in order to avoid using
technical means of moderation.

We will be moderating this list in a far more aggressive manner moving
forward.  We will in almost all situations talk to people ahead of
time, and try to head off problems.  We can understand occasional
slip-ups and elevated tensions - we all experience them. But if you
habitually behave in a way that makes other members feel uncomfortable
or otherwise habitually disrupt this list, you will be removed.


Kevin Gorman

On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 9:04 PM, Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi everyone,

 Beria has been unsubscribed from the list. This was moderator decision, not
 just on my end.

 Sorry that your email box had to be the victim of this and I hope all of you
 - wherever you live, and whatever your gender of choice is, can move beyond
 the recent conflict.

 From here on out if discussions start to get heated and we fail to live up
 to [[WP:CIVIL]] [1] then the moderators will turn whole list moderation on,
 and every email will be moderated until the drama llama is calmed.

 Let's be grown ups, work together, and celebrate our collective passion for
 wanting to mind the gap regardless of gender, language and location. (And
 let's have fun doing it?! Right?!)

 Thanks,

 -Sarah

 [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Civil




 On 8/29/12 8:02 PM, Béria Lima wrote:

 I would like to say to the moderator team - especially Sarah who now decided
 to create a WWC initiative (and I'm now requesting her to change the name)
 - to fuck off and try to do half of what Laura is doing for women in
 Wikipedia..

 I'm with Laura in this. If this list isn't welcoming to women from outside
 USA, it failed the propose to exist. If isn't a safe place for women, it has
 no reason to exist.
 _
 Béria Lima

 Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre
 acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir
 esse sonho.


 On 29 August 2012 19:56, Emily Monroe emilymonro...@gmail.com wrote:

 I would like to thank the mod team for intervening, in any case.

 From,
 Emily



 On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 5:53 PM, Kevin Gorman kgor...@gmail.com wrote:

 I am sorry to see Laura go.   Her leaving the list was not requested
 by the mod team here, and was not the desired or expected outcome of
 my interaction with her. She's welcome back at any point that she
 would like to resubscribe.

 Sarah and I have recently been approached by people in private
 indicating that Laura's posting style has made them uncomfortable
 participating in public discussions on this list.  After talking with
 Sarah, I sent Laura an email asking her to step back and consider if
 her messages could make others uncomfortable before sending them out,
 and asking her to take into consideration other people's feedback when
 they offer it.  (She's not the only member who we've sent a similar
 message to.)

 ---
 Kevin Gorman

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Re: [Gendergap] Reminder of Feminism Article Alerts

[Kevin Gorman]

Hi all -

I've been in a significant academic time crunch for the last several
weeks, and Sarah is currently AFK, which is why neither of us have
participated in this thread so far.  One of us (Sarah, me, or Cindy,)
will probably have further comment on this thread in general and may
reach out to some of you individually in the near future, but I wanted
to send out a general note that the mods are reading this thread and
some sort of action is likely to be forthcoming.

For now:
I agree with Fluffernutter that a lot of the behavior that has
occurred on this thread is not productive.  I subscribe to this list
because I believe it should be a place where we can have important
discussions.  I believe that the gendergap in Wikimedia projects has
significant real-world implications that need to be addressed to avoid
significant long term consequences.  I believe that many of the
subscribers to this list, including many people who have participated
here, believe the same way.

If you do believe the same way, I would ask that when you start to
type a post to this list, please consider whether or not your comment
will benefit our mutual goals, or whether it will harm them. If you
feel you can't make a comment that will be productive (or at least
neutral) at any given point, please hold off on sending your email for
a while - even if it's just for a few hours - to allow tensions and
feelings on all sides to de-escalate.

Thanks,
Kevin Gorman

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Re: [Gendergap] Female equality issues and Wikipedia

[Kevin Gorman]

On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 3:10 AM, Laura Hale la...@fanhistory.com wrote:
 Hi,

 http://www.heraldsun.com.au/ipad/female-athletes-deserve-better/story-fn6bn88w-1226385263903
 is a story that has been making the rounds in Australia for a while now
 about an elite sportwoman who plays top level soccer and cricket, but while
 competing at the top, is unable to make a living because neither one pays
 enough.  Those in sporting institutions are demanding she give up one or
 another.

 Is there a way that Wikipedia can be used in a neutral way to address
 systematic bias? Does drawing attention to women in fields by bringing them
 to the front page of Wikipedia through ITN, DYK and FAC help address this by
 meerly normalising the existence of women in these areas?  Does getting more
 pictures address it?  Is this a topic better suited by sharing this
 information on Wikinews through reporting on these issues independent of the
 main stream media? or uploading documents to Wikisource to help provide
 historical information?  Does it get solved by providing more examples of
 women to counter systematic bias of images of only men doing certain tasks?

 Sincerely,
 Laura Hale

I've always thought that this sort of issue is one of the most
important reasons that we need to find ways to address the content
gaps caused by our demographically skewed base.  Wikipedia has reached
a point where it's the primary (or at least initial) source of
information for hundreds of millions of people - if something is
missing in Wikipedia then in a real sense it doesn't exist (or at
least exists less, if that makes any sense) for much of the world.

By creating, encouraging the creation of, or recruiting new editors
likely to engage in the creation of, the type of article that we
currently lack - such as articles about women's sports,
concepts/perspectives from academic disciplines like gender studies or
ethnic studies, or women authors - we are doing something that will
result in the (slow, gradual) normalisation and increased knowledge
and acceptance of these sort of things (if we don't fuck up
everything.)  It's not the kind of thing that will show overnight
results - or even necessarily serious results this decade - but I
think that it will be critically important for the long-term
advancement of these issues.

I think that, in this regard, Wikipedia work is more important than
Wikisource or Wikinews work generally speaking.  For better or for
worse Wikinews is currently of limited reach; most people haven't
heard of it, and its cultural impact is far less than that of
Wikipedia.  Wikisource is an awesome project but has a limited
audience by it's very nature, and I don't think that in this specific
way its general cultural impact can match that of Wikipedia's.


User:Kevin Gorman

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Re: [Gendergap] New WikiProject Feminism Articles from WSG students

[Kevin Gorman]

Thanks for sharing this - it sounds like the exact type of thing that
has most excited me about the education program.  I just finished a
miniature wikibreak, but now that I am back, I have watchlisted the
relevant articles and will try to guide any problems that come up to
productive resolution :).

I don't know what ambassador-type people we have up there, but I'd
also encourage you to participate in the official education program in
future terms.


User:Kevin Gorman

On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 12:53 PM, Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.com wrote:
 Thank you for sharing your work with the mailing list Elizabeth.

 Do you have any sense, from your students, on if they will stick around as
 future editors? We often see a drop off with students from education
 programs, and I'd love to know if your students have interest in continuing
 their contributions, if there is anything that they think would make them
 want to continue or what would deter them from continuous contributions.

 I'm adding all of these articles to my watch list!

 -Sarah




 On 6/4/12 6:29 AM, Kissling, Elizabeth wrote:

 Now that there's room in the discussion for a new topic :-), I'd like to ask
 for help from some of you experienced Wikipedians in bringing a new group of
 women to the project.

 I'm a professor of Women's  Gender Studies, and for their senior capstone
 project, I've had a group of WSG majors students working on WP articles for
 the WikiProject Feminism. They've selected articles from the list of
 requested articles and stubs from WP:Feminism
 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Feminism), and have been
 researching, writing, and revising in their sandbox pages for the last few
 weeks. We're planning to post the articles in class today (a few make take a
 little longer, but this week for sure -- it's the last week of the term).

 It's been a wonderful experience for them, learning about how to present
 research for the Wikipedia audience compared to an academic audience, and to
 make feminist ideas accessible to larger audience, and more. It's given them
 a new appreciation of Wikipedia -- most of their professors tell them not to
 use it, so it was a big shock the first day of class when I announced we'd
 spend the quarter working on it. It's also been very challenging for many,
 especially the technical aspects of working with wiki markup and Wikipedia.

 Will those of you who volunteer in this area help shepherd them into the
 fold? I'm not expecting my students to be treated with kid gloves, but we've
 watched a few edit wars, and they're nervous. As with any group of students,
 some are stronger writers than others, and some of these pieces will need
 more help than others. Here's the list of articles that will soon be
 added/updated:


 American women's firsts
 Feminism in Thailand
 Feminism  BDSM
 Metaformic theory
 Women's shelters
 Genderfuck
 Feminist pedagogy

 Thank you for the work that you, and for any help you can provide to my
 students.



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 Wikimedia Foundation Community Fellow
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[Gendergap] civility/behavioral standards

[Kevin Gorman]

Hi all -

As was announced several months ago, I am now one of the moderators of
this list.

Some time ago, there was a discussion on this list about behavioral
standards for this list.  There was widespread agreement in the
initial thread that it's important for this list to remain a safe
space for discussion, even if that means enforcing a behavioral
standard higher than is the norm on other Wikimedia mailing lists.  I
think that given the nature of this list, it would be especially,
extraordinarily, unusually counterproductive to allow a consistently
combative or consistently uncivil environment to take root here.
Given the previous thread about it, and some off-list conversations
I've recently had, I know I am far from the only list member to feel
that way.

Given this, I'm going to change how the moderation of this list is
handled a little bit moving forward.  Previously, there has been no
hands-on moderation of this list.  From now on, there will potentially
be some.  It won't be draconian - and really, I hope it'll never be
used at all - but I think it's important to guarantee that the
atmosphere of this list remains friendly, and I wanted to announce how
I will be approaching it.

If, after an initial direct request to change their behavior, anyone
behaves in a way that is significantly disruptive to this list, a way
that is consistently uncivil, or a way that consistently makes other
list members feel uncomfortable participating on this list, I will be
putting them on +moderate, which means that all of their emails will
be held until I approve them - and I'll only be approving emails that
don't do those things.  I obviously don't mean that dissenting
opinions aren't okay; I think they should always be welcomed and
moderation will not be done on the basis of the opinion someone
expresses.  But, I do think that all opinions can be expressed in a
civil way that doesn't make other list members feel uncomfortable.

We could create an enumerated list of rules trying to cover every
scenario that could come up, but I don't think that would be necessary
or productive.  I think that most people realize when they stop over a
line - and if they don't before someone else speaks up about it, they
certainly should afterwards.  I normally watch most traffic on this
list, but I don't always (this week is finals for me :).)  If you have
a complaint about someone's behavior that you think needs moderator
attention that has been missed, please send me a direct email.  If
someone else emails you asking to change your behavior or expressing
discomfort in your posting style, please take a minute to step back
and see if there could be something to their request.   It's
understandable that sometimes tensions will run high on gendergap
issues and no one will be moderated unless their posts are
consistently problematic even after being approached about it.

Feedback on this is welcome, although the basic idea (that members
whose presence is disruptive to this list being a safe space) is
unlikely to totally change.

Thanks,
Kevin Gorman
(user:Kevin Gorman, formerly user:kgorman-ucb)

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Re: [Gendergap] civility/behavioral standards

[Kevin Gorman]

@Risker: Sorry for not making it more clear in my initial post.
Although Sue is a moderator, she chooses not to be active in most
moderation decisions.  Sarah and I talked about this, and she looked
over, edited, (and agreed with) my initial email in this thread.  I
signed it personally instead of both of us doing so in part because,
as Kaldari mentioned, she's frequently been the focus of situations
where moderation might be a good idea, and  she doesn't want to use a
modhat against behavior directed towards her. Since a lot of the
issues in the past have been directed towards her, she's asked me to
be the primary handler of active moderation stuff for now. (If there
ends up being a situation where problematic behavior is targeted
towards me instead of her, I'll step back and ask her to handle it.)

:There's no recent incident that has made me go 'oh, hey, I want to
+moderate this person right this minute' - but there has been some
recent stuff that has reminded us that this is something we've talked
about before, and that it would be good to state publicly before there
is a situation where we want to actually +moderate anyone.  No one
will be +moderated without getting an email from Sarah or myself first
asking them to shift their behavior, and even then, we'll be
moderating on a post by post basis and not completely removing anyone
from the list.  I'm hopeful that we won't actually need to moderate
anyone ever, but wanted to publicly state that we will be doing so if
we feel it's needed in the future before it came up.

Re: the idea of additional moderators - although I haven't talked
about it explicitly with Sue and Sarah, I like the idea, and I'm
pretty sure they would too.  If anyone would like to volunteer, please
drop an email to Sarah or me offlist.


Kevin Gorman

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Re: [Gendergap] New Moderator

[Kevin Gorman]

This one is an ethnic studies course, not a women's studies course :) but
it's still going to be awesome anyway, and will hopefully lead to valuable
collaborations with both departments - I think there's pretty awesome
synergy between our mission and the mission of the academy in general, but
especially between us and departments like these.

I'm primarily an editor on ENWP, under the username kgorman-ucb.  I also am
involved in various other real-world outreach (including some gendergap
related stuff,) and was a communications intern for the foundation for a
while.

Anyway, hi y'all.


Kevin Gorman
User:Kgorman-ucb

On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.comwrote:

  Hi everyone,

 I wanted to say welcome to our new moderator of the Gender Gap list -
 Kevin Gorman.

 Kevin is an advocate for minding the gap, as a student at UC Berkeley,
 he is the first to bring the ambassador program to a women's studies
 department, which will be executed this spring. Kevin has the patience and
 ability to maintain sensitive subjects on Wikipedia and beyond, showing his
 ability to be patient, yet honest, on subjects such as men's rights,
 domestic abuse, and beyond. As a colleague, I have been nothing but
 impressed with Kevin's input, honesty, and strength regarding sensitive
 subjects.

 Both Sue and I are delighted to have Kevin involved here in the list;
 thank you Kevin!

 -Sarah

 --
 *Sarah Stierch*
 *Wikimedia Foundation Community Fellow*
 Support the sharing of free knowledge around the world: donate 
 todayhttp://wikimediafoundation.org/w/index.php?title=WMFJA085/en/USutm_source=WMdonateutm_medium=sidebarutm_campaign=20110130SB003language=enuselang=encountry=USreferrer=http%3A%2F%2Fwikimediafoundation.org%2Fwiki%2FHome
 

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Re: [Gendergap] Bothersome? (Re: Pimp)

[Kevin Gorman]

To me, article differentials like this are one of the most interesting
manifestations of the gender gap, and are worth talking about on this list.
 Content that deals primarily with women is systematically underdeveloped
throughout the projects, and that is a big deal.  The gendergap would still
be disturbing even if this weren't the case - but to me at least, the
systemic underdevelopment of content is probably the single most worrisome
issue involved.

I conduct physical outreach about gendergap issues in the bay area on a
regular basis - I think I have five talks/lectures/brownbags currently
scheduled in the next month and a half.  This sort of example is great,
because it helps people understand why Wikimedia's massive demographic gaps
are a serious problem.  Obviously a single example can't prove a systemic
problem, but using concrete examples makes the issue much more real to some
people than just saying According to researchers at NYU, we're XX% more
likely to be missing important biographies of women than Britannica is.  I
usually mention the hairdresser/barber example, and it's probably been more
effective at generating interest than any other single thing I've mentioned
- at this point I'm getting emails from people I've never met who want to
get involved after having had that example relayed to them by people who I
have talked to.

So, thanks Sarah, this specific example will work itself in to a talk in
the near future :)


Kevin Gorman
User:Kgorman-ucb
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