[Gendergap] Giving Women the Access Code

[Lennart Guldbrandsson]

Hello,

Via Mike Godwin:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/03/science/giving-women-the-access-code.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1




“Most of the female students were unwilling to go on in computer science
 because of the stereotypes they had grown up with,” said Zachary Dodds,
 a computer scientist at Mudd. “We realized we were helping perpetuate 
that by teaching such a standard course.”
To reduce the intimidation factor, the course was divided into two 
sections — “gold,” for those with no prior experience, and “black” for 
everyone else. Java, a notoriously opaque programming language, was 
replaced by a more accessible language called Python. And the focus of 
the course changed to computational approaches to solving problems 
across science.
“We realized that we needed to show students computer science is not all
 about programming,” said Ran Libeskind-Hadas, chairman of the 
department. “It has intellectual depth and connections to other 
disciplines.”


Most of the article is about Dr Maria Klawe, who seems to be a very inspiring 
person.


Best wishes,



Lennart



Lennart Guldbrandsson, 
Tfn: 031 - 12 50 48 Mobil: 070 - 207 80 05
Epost: l_guldbrands...@hotmail.com / lenn...@wikimedia.se
Användarsida: http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anv%C3%A4ndare:Hannibal
Blogg: http://mrchapel.wordpress.com/
Wikimedia Sverige http://wikimedia.se
http://www.1av3.se
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Re: [Gendergap] Giving Women the Access Code

[Sarah Stierch]

Nice article, thanks for sharing Lennart!

"She was consistently told by teachers in adolescence 
, 
then later by colleagues, that the things she was interested in were 
things women didn't do, and that there were no good female 
mathematicians," Dr. Pippenger said.


It's reasoning like this, and the one that you quoted below about 
stereotypes, kept me from pursuing a degree in computer science. I 
remember looking into the school when I was a young undergrad and I felt 
so intimidated, and then was told that I'd have to take certain math 
classes. Which frustrated me, as I could do basic language coding and 
write html off the top of my head. I flunked the math classes I had to 
take, and 10 years later found out I had a math disability. (And it 
wasn't my parents who were telling me not to do it, it was professors, 
etc. Regardless of my poor math skills, almost every single person I 
know who codes jokes that "you don't /need/ to know math."  Someday I'll 
take some classes in something (just for fun, I suppose)..or perhaps 
there will be a "N00bs super simple MediaWiki fun day that even your 
grandma could learn to code at!" event.


I'm not disappointed with how my path curved and turned thus far, but, 
after reading /Unlocking the Clubhouse/[1] and every time I read an 
article like this, it just reminds me more and more of the experiences I 
had as a young person that kept me out of the lab. The odd thing, is 
that I ended up entering into a field that is upwards of 80% dominated 
by women. I wonder of computer science can take any cues from museum 
studies.


On that note, I'm sure I'm not the only person on this mailing list that 
took a different path than the one they wanted due to popular and 
personal pressure.


Sarah

[1]http://www.amazon.com/Unlocking-Clubhouse-Computing-Jane-Margolis/dp/0262133989


On 4/3/12 3:36 AM, Lennart Guldbrandsson wrote:

Hello,

Via Mike Godwin:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/03/science/giving-women-the-access-code.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1



"Most of the female students were unwilling to go on in computer 
science because of the stereotypes they had grown up with," said 
Zachary Dodds, a computer scientist at Mudd. "We realized we were 
helping perpetuate that by teaching such a standard course."


To reduce the intimidation factor, the course was divided into two 
sections --- "gold," for those with no prior experience, and "black" 
for everyone else. Java, a notoriously opaque programming language, 
was replaced by a more accessible language called Python. And the 
focus of the course changed to computational approaches to solving 
problems across science.


"We realized that we needed to show students computer science is not 
all about programming," said Ran Libeskind-Hadas, chairman of the 
department. "It has intellectual depth and connections to other 
disciplines."





Most of the article is about Dr Maria Klawe, who seems to be a very 
inspiring person.



Best wishes,

Lennart


Lennart Guldbrandsson,
Tfn: 031 - 12 50 48 Mobil: 070 - 207 80 05
Epost: l_guldbrands...@hotmail.com / lenn...@wikimedia.se
Användarsida: http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anv%C3%A4ndare:Hannibal
Blogg: http://mrchapel.wordpress.com/
Wikimedia Sverige http://wikimedia.se
http://www.1av3.se


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*Sarah Stierch*
*/Wikimedia Foundation Community Fellow/*
>>Support the sharing of free knowledge around the world: donate today 
<<
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Re: [Gendergap] Giving Women the Access Code

[Lennart Guldbrandsson]

Yes, a course for very, very unexperienced programers would be great.

And just to continue on that thread about pursuing your passion, I trust you 
have seen Sir Ken Robinson talk at TED?

http://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_creativity.html



Med vänliga hälsningar, 




Lennart



Lennart Guldbrandsson, 
Tfn: 031 - 12 50 48 Mobil: 070 - 207 80 05
Epost: l_guldbrands...@hotmail.com / lenn...@wikimedia.se
Användarsida: http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anv%C3%A4ndare:Hannibal
Blogg: http://mrchapel.wordpress.com/
Wikimedia Sverige http://wikimedia.se
http://www.1av3.se


Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 10:31:43 -0400
From: sarah.stie...@gmail.com
To: gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Giving Women the Access Code


  



  
  
Nice article, thanks for sharing Lennart!




“She was consistently told by teachers in adolescence, then later
by colleagues, that the things she was interested in were things
women didn’t do, and that there were no good female mathematicians,”
Dr. Pippenger said. 



It's reasoning like this, and the one that you quoted below about
stereotypes, kept me from pursuing a degree in computer science. I
remember looking into the school when I was a young undergrad and I
felt so intimidated, and then was told that I'd have to take certain
math classes. Which frustrated me, as I could do basic language
coding and write html off the top of my head. I flunked the math
classes I had to take, and 10 years later found out I had a math
disability. (And it wasn't my parents who were telling me not to do
it, it was professors, etc. Regardless of my poor math skills,
almost every single person I know who codes jokes that "you don't need
to know math."  Someday I'll take some classes in something (just
for fun, I suppose)..or perhaps there will be a "N00bs super simple
MediaWiki fun day that even your grandma could learn to code at!"
event. 



I'm not disappointed with how my path curved and turned thus far,
but, after reading Unlocking the Clubhouse[1] and every time
I read an article like this, it just reminds me more and more of the
experiences I had as a young person that kept me out of the lab. The
odd thing, is that I ended up entering into a field that is upwards
of 80% dominated by women. I wonder of computer science can take any
cues from museum studies. 



On that note, I'm sure I'm not the only person on this mailing list
that took a different path than the one they wanted due to popular
and personal pressure. 



Sarah



[1]http://www.amazon.com/Unlocking-Clubhouse-Computing-Jane-Margolis/dp/0262133989





On 4/3/12 3:36 AM, Lennart Guldbrandsson wrote:

  
  
Hello,



Via Mike Godwin:



http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/03/science/giving-women-the-access-code.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1








  “Most of the female students were unwilling to go on in
  computer science because of the stereotypes they had grown up
  with,” said Zachary Dodds, a computer scientist at Mudd. “We
  realized we were helping perpetuate that by teaching such a
  standard course.” 

  To reduce the intimidation factor, the course was divided into
  two sections — “gold,” for those with no prior experience, and
  “black” for everyone else. Java, a notoriously opaque
  programming language, was replaced by a more accessible
  language called Python. And the focus of the course changed to
  computational approaches to solving problems across science. 

  “We realized that we needed to show students computer science
  is not all about programming,” said Ran Libeskind-Hadas,
  chairman of the department. “It has intellectual depth and
  connections to other disciplines.” 






Most of the article is about Dr Maria Klawe, who seems to be a
very inspiring person.





Best wishes,



Lennart





Lennart Guldbrandsson, 

Tfn: 031 - 12 50 48 Mobil: 070 - 207 80 05

Epost: l_guldbrands...@hotmail.com / lenn...@wikimedia.se

Användarsida:
http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anv%C3%A4ndare:Hannibal

Blogg: http://mrchapel.wordpress.com/

Wikimedia Sverige http://wikimedia.se

http://www.1av3.se

  
  

  
  

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  Sarah Stierch

  Wikimedia Foundation Community Fellow

  >&g

Re: [Gendergap] Giving Women the Access Code

[Thomas Morton]

Tangentially related story: http://raganwald.posterous.com/a-womans-story

Tom


On 3 April 2012 15:34, Lennart Guldbrandsson wrote:

>  Yes, a course for very, very unexperienced programers would be great.
>
> And just to continue on that thread about pursuing your passion, I trust
> you have seen Sir Ken Robinson talk at TED?
>
> http://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_creativity.html
>
>
>
> Med vänliga hälsningar,
>
>
> Lennart
>
>
> Lennart Guldbrandsson,
> Tfn: 031 - 12 50 48 Mobil: 070 - 207 80 05
> Epost: l_guldbrands...@hotmail.com / lenn...@wikimedia.se
> Användarsida: http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anv%C3%A4ndare:Hannibal
> Blogg: http://mrchapel.wordpress.com/
> Wikimedia Sverige http://wikimedia.se
> http://www.1av3.se
>
>
> --
> Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 10:31:43 -0400
> From: sarah.stie...@gmail.com
> To: gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
> Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Giving Women the Access Code
>
>
> Nice article, thanks for sharing Lennart!
>
> “She was consistently told by teachers in 
> adolescence<http://health.nytimes.com/health/guides/specialtopic/puberty-and-adolescence/overview.html?inline=nyt-classifier>,
> then later by colleagues, that the things she was interested in were things
> women didn’t do, and that there were no good female mathematicians,” Dr.
> Pippenger said.
>
> It's reasoning like this, and the one that you quoted below about
> stereotypes, kept me from pursuing a degree in computer science. I remember
> looking into the school when I was a young undergrad and I felt so
> intimidated, and then was told that I'd have to take certain math classes.
> Which frustrated me, as I could do basic language coding and write html off
> the top of my head. I flunked the math classes I had to take, and 10 years
> later found out I had a math disability. (And it wasn't my parents who were
> telling me not to do it, it was professors, etc. Regardless of my poor math
> skills, almost every single person I know who codes jokes that "you don't
> *need* to know math."  Someday I'll take some classes in something (just
> for fun, I suppose)..or perhaps there will be a "N00bs super simple
> MediaWiki fun day that even your grandma could learn to code at!" event.
>
> I'm not disappointed with how my path curved and turned thus far, but,
> after reading *Unlocking the Clubhouse*[1] and every time I read an
> article like this, it just reminds me more and more of the experiences I
> had as a young person that kept me out of the lab. The odd thing, is that I
> ended up entering into a field that is upwards of 80% dominated by women. I
> wonder of computer science can take any cues from museum studies.
>
> On that note, I'm sure I'm not the only person on this mailing list that
> took a different path than the one they wanted due to popular and personal
> pressure.
>
> Sarah
>
> [1]
> http://www.amazon.com/Unlocking-Clubhouse-Computing-Jane-Margolis/dp/0262133989
>
>
> On 4/3/12 3:36 AM, Lennart Guldbrandsson wrote:
>
>  Hello,
>
> Via Mike Godwin:
>
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/03/science/giving-women-the-access-code.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1
>
> 
>
> “Most of the female students were unwilling to go on in computer science
> because of the stereotypes they had grown up with,” said Zachary Dodds, a
> computer scientist at Mudd. “We realized we were helping perpetuate that by
> teaching such a standard course.”
> To reduce the intimidation factor, the course was divided into two
> sections — “gold,” for those with no prior experience, and “black” for
> everyone else. Java, a notoriously opaque programming language, was
> replaced by a more accessible language called Python. And the focus of the
> course changed to computational approaches to solving problems across
> science.
> “We realized that we needed to show students computer science is not all
> about programming,” said Ran Libeskind-Hadas, chairman of the department.
> “It has intellectual depth and connections to other disciplines.”
>
> 
>
> Most of the article is about Dr Maria Klawe, who seems to be a very
> inspiring person.
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Lennart
>
>
> Lennart Guldbrandsson,
> Tfn: 031 - 12 50 48 Mobil: 070 - 207 80 05
> Epost: l_guldbrands...@hotmail.com / lenn...@wikimedia.se
> Användarsida: 
> http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anv%C3%A4ndare:Hannibal<http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anv%C3%A4ndare%3aHannibal>
> Blogg: http://mrchapel.wordpress.com/
> Wikimedia Sverige http://wikimedia.se
> http://www.1av3.se
>
>
> ___
> Gendergap m

Re: [Gendergap] Giving Women the Access Code

[Shlomi Fish]

Hi Sarah (and all),

On Tue, 03 Apr 2012 10:31:43 -0400
Sarah Stierch  wrote:

> Nice article, thanks for sharing Lennart!
> 
> "She was consistently told by teachers in adolescence 
> ,
>  
> then later by colleagues, that the things she was interested in were 
> things women didn't do, and that there were no good female 
> mathematicians," Dr. Pippenger said.
> 
> It's reasoning like this, and the one that you quoted below about 
> stereotypes, kept me from pursuing a degree in computer science. I 
> remember looking into the school when I was a young undergrad and I felt 
> so intimidated, and then was told that I'd have to take certain math 
> classes. Which frustrated me, as I could do basic language coding and 
> write html off the top of my head. I flunked the math classes I had to 
> take, and 10 years later found out I had a math disability. (And it 
> wasn't my parents who were telling me not to do it, it was professors, 
> etc. Regardless of my poor math skills, almost every single person I 
> know who codes jokes that "you don't /need/ to know math."  Someday I'll 
> take some classes in something (just for fun, I suppose)..or perhaps 
> there will be a "N00bs super simple MediaWiki fun day that even your 
> grandma could learn to code at!" event.
> 

The perpetuation of these stereotypes is often geographical, as in Israel, for
example, many female high school students graduate with 5 points of maths,
5 points of physics, and other such "Realistic Sciences"-oriented subjects,
and when my sister studied in the Technion ( http://www.technion.ac.il/ ),
which was close to when I graduated, there were 30% of female students studying
Computer Science there. That put aside, I studied Electrical Engineering (which
in the Technion can easily end up as something close to what Americans know as
Computer Engineering[1]), where only 10% of the students were female, and
it's most likely due to a low percentage of female students who applied there.

In any case, there is no good reason to propagate these stereotypes, or for
girls and women to feel intimidated from studying maths. Like you, I also feel
that you don't need too much mathematics for most of the daily work involving
programming, but it does crop up in various contexts in computer science. I
wouldn't encourage completely getting rid of mathematics from the CS
curriculums (or even from software engineering ones) because then we end up
with a similar syndrome to what is described here:

http://xkcd.com/547/

We can still teach programming to people without a good knowledge of
maths, and many children (or pre-teens or teenagers or whatever you wish to
call them) have been studying programming before they even studied Algebra.


[1] - one should note that in the Technion, Computer Engineering is a combined
Electrical Engineering/Computer Science specialisation, which is more
demanding than either degree, so an Electrical Engineering proper graduate is
not allowed to say he has a degree in Computer Engineering, but this is a
different (and somewhat sad) story.


> I'm not disappointed with how my path curved and turned thus far, but, 
> after reading /Unlocking the Clubhouse/[1] and every time I read an 
> article like this, it just reminds me more and more of the experiences I 
> had as a young person that kept me out of the lab. The odd thing, is 
> that I ended up entering into a field that is upwards of 80% dominated 
> by women. I wonder of computer science can take any cues from museum 
> studies.
> 
> On that note, I'm sure I'm not the only person on this mailing list that 
> took a different path than the one they wanted due to popular and 
> personal pressure.
> 

Well, as a teenager, I planned on becoming a mathematician (I had somewhat
different interests as a younger child). Then after high school I got a few
jobs as a software developer, and decided to study something related. After a
failed attempt at studying Mathematics and Computer Science in tau.ac.il (I
freaked out completely, due to silly misconceptions), I worked for a few
months in a different workplace and then started studying Electrical
Engineering (like I said, more like what Americans call "Computer
Engineering") there, while being more mentally prepared for that, and after a
bumpy and eventful ride, graduated. Even in the Technion, there were several
things I initially wanted to specialise in, which I didn't because they seemed
too intimidating, counter-intuitive (at least for me) and/or difficult (I
still have a trauma from Maxwell’s Equations). 

I've contemplated getting a post-graduate degree, but I've been thinking of
getting one in Linguistics instead of in something more technical. However,
I'm a little afraid of needing to cram a lot of Latin and/or Greek vocabulary.

Regards,

Mr. Shlomi Fish (sorry for the brain-dump).

-- 
-

Re: [Gendergap] Giving Women the Access Code

[Heather Walls]

I just wanted to let you all know (can't remember if anyone has linked
these) that Stanford is offering some free online courses, like a CS101 by
Nick Parlante that is starting April 23:

https://www.coursera.org/course/cs101

"CS101 teaches the essential ideas of Computer Science for a
zero-prior-experience audience. Computers can appear very complicated, but
in reality, computers work within just a few, simple patterns. CS101
demystifies and brings those patterns to life, which is useful for anyone
using computers today."

Best!
Heather

Designer at the Wikimedia Foundation


On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 9:06 AM, Shlomi Fish  wrote:

> Hi Sarah (and all),
>
> On Tue, 03 Apr 2012 10:31:43 -0400
> Sarah Stierch  wrote:
>
> > Nice article, thanks for sharing Lennart!
> >
> > "She was consistently told by teachers in adolescence
> > <
> http://health.nytimes.com/health/guides/specialtopic/puberty-and-adolescence/overview.html?inline=nyt-classifier
> >,
> > then later by colleagues, that the things she was interested in were
> > things women didn't do, and that there were no good female
> > mathematicians," Dr. Pippenger said.
> >
> > It's reasoning like this, and the one that you quoted below about
> > stereotypes, kept me from pursuing a degree in computer science. I
> > remember looking into the school when I was a young undergrad and I felt
> > so intimidated, and then was told that I'd have to take certain math
> > classes. Which frustrated me, as I could do basic language coding and
> > write html off the top of my head. I flunked the math classes I had to
> > take, and 10 years later found out I had a math disability. (And it
> > wasn't my parents who were telling me not to do it, it was professors,
> > etc. Regardless of my poor math skills, almost every single person I
> > know who codes jokes that "you don't /need/ to know math."  Someday I'll
> > take some classes in something (just for fun, I suppose)..or perhaps
> > there will be a "N00bs super simple MediaWiki fun day that even your
> > grandma could learn to code at!" event.
> >
>
> The perpetuation of these stereotypes is often geographical, as in Israel,
> for
> example, many female high school students graduate with 5 points of maths,
> 5 points of physics, and other such "Realistic Sciences"-oriented subjects,
> and when my sister studied in the Technion ( http://www.technion.ac.il/ ),
> which was close to when I graduated, there were 30% of female students
> studying
> Computer Science there. That put aside, I studied Electrical Engineering
> (which
> in the Technion can easily end up as something close to what Americans
> know as
> Computer Engineering[1]), where only 10% of the students were female, and
> it's most likely due to a low percentage of female students who applied
> there.
>
> In any case, there is no good reason to propagate these stereotypes, or for
> girls and women to feel intimidated from studying maths. Like you, I also
> feel
> that you don't need too much mathematics for most of the daily work
> involving
> programming, but it does crop up in various contexts in computer science. I
> wouldn't encourage completely getting rid of mathematics from the CS
> curriculums (or even from software engineering ones) because then we end up
> with a similar syndrome to what is described here:
>
> http://xkcd.com/547/
>
> We can still teach programming to people without a good knowledge of
> maths, and many children (or pre-teens or teenagers or whatever you wish to
> call them) have been studying programming before they even studied Algebra.
>
> 
> [1] - one should note that in the Technion, Computer Engineering is a
> combined
> Electrical Engineering/Computer Science specialisation, which is more
> demanding than either degree, so an Electrical Engineering proper graduate
> is
> not allowed to say he has a degree in Computer Engineering, but this is a
> different (and somewhat sad) story.
> 
>
> > I'm not disappointed with how my path curved and turned thus far, but,
> > after reading /Unlocking the Clubhouse/[1] and every time I read an
> > article like this, it just reminds me more and more of the experiences I
> > had as a young person that kept me out of the lab. The odd thing, is
> > that I ended up entering into a field that is upwards of 80% dominated
> > by women. I wonder of computer science can take any cues from museum
> > studies.
> >
> > On that note, I'm sure I'm not the only person on this mailing list that
> > took a different path than the one they wanted due to popular and
> > personal pressure.
> >
>
> Well, as a teenager, I planned on becoming a mathematician (I had somewhat
> different interests as a younger child). Then after high school I got a few
> jobs as a software developer, and decided to study something related.
> After a
> failed attempt at studying Mathematics and Computer Science in tau.ac.il(I
> freaked out completely, due to silly misconceptions), I worked for a few
> months in a different workplace 

Re: [Gendergap] Giving Women the Access Code

[Ryan Kaldari]

As someone who has worked as a computer programmer for 20 years and took 
several Calculus classes, I would like to vouch for the fact that in 
order to have a successful career in computer programming, it is 
necessary to have at least 4 years of math education - in elementary school.


I find it strange that biology, which is actually a fairly math 
intensive field, requires virtually no mathematics in college, while 
computer science requires absurd levels of math that have no relevance 
to the field. And yet classes that are extremely relevant, like How to 
Use UNIX, are optional. I think it has far more to do with the academic 
computer science culture than what is actually useful to teach people.


On a related note, I noticed recently that the English Wikipedia only 
has 2 paragraphs about women in mathematics: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematician#Women_in_mathematics. Compare 
with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_science or 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_engineering (which was recently 
expanded).


Ryan Kaldari


On 4/3/12 7:31 AM, Sarah Stierch wrote:

Nice article, thanks for sharing Lennart!

"She was consistently told by teachers in adolescence 
, 
then later by colleagues, that the things she was interested in were 
things women didn't do, and that there were no good female 
mathematicians," Dr. Pippenger said.


It's reasoning like this, and the one that you quoted below about 
stereotypes, kept me from pursuing a degree in computer science. I 
remember looking into the school when I was a young undergrad and I 
felt so intimidated, and then was told that I'd have to take certain 
math classes. Which frustrated me, as I could do basic language coding 
and write html off the top of my head. I flunked the math classes I 
had to take, and 10 years later found out I had a math disability. 
(And it wasn't my parents who were telling me not to do it, it was 
professors, etc. Regardless of my poor math skills, almost every 
single person I know who codes jokes that "you don't /need/ to know 
math."  Someday I'll take some classes in something (just for fun, I 
suppose)..or perhaps there will be a "N00bs super simple MediaWiki fun 
day that even your grandma could learn to code at!" event.


I'm not disappointed with how my path curved and turned thus far, but, 
after reading /Unlocking the Clubhouse/[1] and every time I read an 
article like this, it just reminds me more and more of the experiences 
I had as a young person that kept me out of the lab. The odd thing, is 
that I ended up entering into a field that is upwards of 80% dominated 
by women. I wonder of computer science can take any cues from museum 
studies.


On that note, I'm sure I'm not the only person on this mailing list 
that took a different path than the one they wanted due to popular and 
personal pressure.


Sarah

[1]http://www.amazon.com/Unlocking-Clubhouse-Computing-Jane-Margolis/dp/0262133989


On 4/3/12 3:36 AM, Lennart Guldbrandsson wrote:

Hello,

Via Mike Godwin:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/03/science/giving-women-the-access-code.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1



"Most of the female students were unwilling to go on in computer 
science because of the stereotypes they had grown up with," said 
Zachary Dodds, a computer scientist at Mudd. "We realized we were 
helping perpetuate that by teaching such a standard course."


To reduce the intimidation factor, the course was divided into two 
sections --- "gold," for those with no prior experience, and "black" 
for everyone else. Java, a notoriously opaque programming language, 
was replaced by a more accessible language called Python. And the 
focus of the course changed to computational approaches to solving 
problems across science.


"We realized that we needed to show students computer science is not 
all about programming," said Ran Libeskind-Hadas, chairman of the 
department. "It has intellectual depth and connections to other 
disciplines."





Most of the article is about Dr Maria Klawe, who seems to be a very 
inspiring person.



Best wishes,

Lennart


Lennart Guldbrandsson,
Tfn: 031 - 12 50 48 Mobil: 070 - 207 80 05
Epost: l_guldbrands...@hotmail.com / lenn...@wikimedia.se
Användarsida: http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anv%C3%A4ndare:Hannibal
Blogg: http://mrchapel.wordpress.com/
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http://www.1av3.se


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*Sarah Stierch*
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Re: [Gendergap] Giving Women the Access Code

[Pete Forsyth]

Ryan,

I think I see the beginnings of a fantastic blog post about CS education in 
here. Nudge, nudge!

(Side note, it does seem to me that there is an angle of computer science that 
involves pretty intense levels of math -- but that would be more the 
theoretical, and maybe hardware design, areas. I wonder, do CS departments 
require lots of math in part out of a desire to establish themselves as 
"serious," and not merely a "trade program for programmers"? As a graduate of a 
pretty unusual school with a heavy theoretical/liberal arts bent, I think my 
perspectives on these things may be very skewed, so I'm very interested in what 
others think.)

-Pete
[[User:Peteforsyth]]


On Apr 3, 2012, at 10:40 AM, Ryan Kaldari wrote:

> As someone who has worked as a computer programmer for 20 years and took 
> several Calculus classes, I would like to vouch for the fact that in order to 
> have a successful career in computer programming, it is necessary to have at 
> least 4 years of math education - in elementary school.
> 
> I find it strange that biology, which is actually a fairly math intensive 
> field, requires virtually no mathematics in college, while computer science 
> requires absurd levels of math that have no relevance to the field. And yet 
> classes that are extremely relevant, like How to Use UNIX, are optional. I 
> think it has far more to do with the academic computer science culture than 
> what is actually useful to teach people.
> 
> On a related note, I noticed recently that the English Wikipedia only has 2 
> paragraphs about women in mathematics: 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematician#Women_in_mathematics. Compare with 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_science or 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_engineering (which was recently 
> expanded).
> 
> Ryan Kaldari
> 
> 
> On 4/3/12 7:31 AM, Sarah Stierch wrote:
>> 
>> Nice article, thanks for sharing Lennart!
>> 
>> “She was consistently told by teachers in adolescence, then later by 
>> colleagues, that the things she was interested in were things women didn’t 
>> do, and that there were no good female mathematicians,” Dr. Pippenger said. 
>> 
>> It's reasoning like this, and the one that you quoted below about 
>> stereotypes, kept me from pursuing a degree in computer science. I remember 
>> looking into the school when I was a young undergrad and I felt so 
>> intimidated, and then was told that I'd have to take certain math classes. 
>> Which frustrated me, as I could do basic language coding and write html off 
>> the top of my head. I flunked the math classes I had to take, and 10 years 
>> later found out I had a math disability. (And it wasn't my parents who were 
>> telling me not to do it, it was professors, etc. Regardless of my poor math  
>>  skills, almost every single person I know who codes jokes that "you 
>> don't need to know math."  Someday I'll take some   classes in something 
>> (just for fun, I suppose)..or perhaps there will be a "N00bs super simple 
>> MediaWiki fun day that even your grandma could learn to code at!" event. 
>> 
>> I'm not disappointed with how my path curved and turned thus far, but, after 
>> reading Unlocking the Clubhouse[1] and every time I read an article like 
>> this, it just reminds me more and more of the experiences I had as a young 
>> person that kept me out of the lab. The odd thing, is that I ended up 
>> entering into a field that is upwards of 80% dominated by women. I wonder of 
>> computer science can take any cues from museum studies. 
>> 
>> On that note, I'm sure I'm not the only person on this mailing list that 
>> took a different path than the one they wanted due to popular and personal 
>> pressure. 
>> 
>> Sarah
>> 
>> [1]http://www.amazon.com/Unlocking-Clubhouse-Computing-Jane-Margolis/dp/0262133989
>> 
>> 
>> On 4/3/12 3:36 AM, Lennart Guldbrandsson wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello,
>>> 
>>> Via Mike Godwin:
>>> 
>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/03/science/giving-women-the-access-code.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> “Most of the female students were unwilling to go on in computer science 
>>> because of the stereotypes they had grown up with,” said Zachary Dodds, a 
>>> computer scientist at Mudd. “We realized we were helping perpetuate that by 
>>> teaching such a standard course.”
>>> 
>>> To reduce the intimidation factor, the course was divided into two sections 
>>> — “gold,” for those with no prior experience, and “black” for everyone 
>>> else. Java, a notoriously opaque programming language, was replaced by a 
>>> more accessible language called Python. And the focus of the course changed 
>>> to computational approaches to solving problems across science.
>>> 
>>> “We realized that we needed to show students computer science is not all 
>>> about programming,” said Ran Libeskind-Hadas, chairman of the department. 
>>> “It has intellectual depth and connections to other disciplines.”
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Most of the article is