Re: [Gendergap] I f***ing love science

[Michael J. Lowrey]

In science fiction fandom, the legendary example was Lee Hoffman, active
fanzine fan and writer of Westerns as well as S.F.  Here's part of Wilson
Tucker's classic account of learning the truth, in Room 770 of the hotel
where the 1951 World Science Fiction Convention was being held. He has just
stepped out of the shower:

I wrapped a towel around my middle, began searching my luggage for a deck
of cards, and yelled a bored invitation to enter.

Three strangers trooped in wearing abashed grins, a girl and two men. The
girl looked as if she were desperately searching for better company than
the characters trailing her. I silently sympathized, and stared at the
trio, the meanwhile dripping soap and water on the rug. The two gentlemen
stared at the towel and giggled, while the girl looked at the puddle on the
rug.

"Hello," one character said.
"Hello," another character said.
"Hello," the girl echoed.

Sadly, I shook my head. The same old wornout greetings.

"We're faaans" the tallest character announced proudly.

"The hell you say!" I shot back, astounded.

"Yep." He was wearing a white T-shirt on which had been printed, I AM
SHELBY VICK. Turning to face me, he asked: "Know who I am?"

I gazed at the T-shirt. "Bela Lugosi?"

He waggled his head, vaguely disappointed.

"Richard Shaver," I guessed again, "Claude Degler, Ray Palmer?"

"I an Shelby Vick!" he exclaimed then in clear, ringing tones.

"The hell you say!" I shot back, astounded.

I-am-Shelby-Vick then flicked a finger at his two conspirators. "You know
Lee Hoffman, of course?"

Of course. I threw a bored glance at the remaining character and yawned,
"Hello, Lee."

"No, no!" contradicted I-am-Shelby-Vick. "Not him ... HER!"

Mustering what dignity I retained, I picked up my towel from the floor and
stalked into the bathroom, flanging shut the door.



On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 5:29 AM, Joseph Reagle wrote:

> Interesting, this reminds me of the ignorant tweeps who believed (despite
> the text) that the character Rue in *Hunger Games* was white and asked "Why
> is Rue Black?" in the movie.
>
> Do folks know of other examples of this?
>
>
> On 03/30/2013 03:52 AM, Jane Darnell wrote:
>
>> Did anyone see this? A popular blogger on Science (with more than 4
>> million followers) is a woman. The woman herself, Elise Andrew, had no
>> idea it was a secret, and she was "outed" when she announced her
>> twitter account featuring a picture of herself. Apparently the bias
>> occurred because of the swear word on her facebook page which made
>> readers assume she was a man. Interesting conclusion! This is a
>> facebook hype that deserves a WP page, no?
>>
>> article is here:
>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/**science/us-news-blog/2013/mar/**
>> 20/i-love-science-woman-**facbook
>> facebook page here:
>> http://www.facebook.com/**IFeakingLoveScience
>> The TV interview with Dr. Michio Kaku on CBS morning show is here:
>> http://cbsn.ws/109mAEL
>>
>
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>



-- 
Michael J. "Orange Mike" Lowrey

"When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left, I buy food and
clothes."
 --  Desiderius Erasmus
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Re: [Gendergap] I f***ing love science

[Rob]

On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 6:29 AM, Joseph Reagle wrote:

> Do folks know of other examples of this?


It was widely assumed that the prominent political blogger Digby was male
until she showed up to accept an award in 2007.  When meeting another
blogger for the first time, prior to that, she joked that she was "less
James Bond and more Judi Dench".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digby_(blogger)
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Re: [Gendergap] I f***ing love science

[Thomas Morton]

The important difference being, that Rue is explicitly described as black
in the books :) (rather than it being implicit in the name, as with Cho
Chang).

Tom


On 30 March 2013 17:24, Shlomi Fish  wrote:

> On Sat, 30 Mar 2013 06:29:11 -0400
> Joseph Reagle  wrote:
>
> > Interesting, this reminds me of the ignorant tweeps who believed
> > (despite the text) that the character Rue in *Hunger Games* was white
> > and asked "Why is Rue Black?" in the movie.
> >
> > Do folks know of other examples of this?
> >
>
> Well, admittedly, I find it hard to visualise characters based on their
> descriptions in the text. For example, I didn't picture
> http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Cho_Chang as belonging to Asian descent
> necessarily, even though I presumed she may have been. Then I saw her as
> Asian
> in one of the Harry Potter films.
>
> Regards,
>
> Shlomi Fish
>
> > On 03/30/2013 03:52 AM, Jane Darnell wrote:
> > > Did anyone see this? A popular blogger on Science (with more than 4
> > > million followers) is a woman. The woman herself, Elise Andrew, had no
> > > idea it was a secret, and she was "outed" when she announced her
> > > twitter account featuring a picture of herself. Apparently the bias
> > > occurred because of the swear word on her facebook page which made
> > > readers assume she was a man. Interesting conclusion! This is a
> > > facebook hype that deserves a WP page, no?
> > >
> > > article is here:
> > >
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/us-news-blog/2013/mar/20/i-love-science-woman-facbook
> > > facebook page here:
> > > http://www.facebook.com/IFeakingLoveScience
> > > The TV interview with Dr. Michio Kaku on CBS morning show is here:
> > > http://cbsn.ws/109mAEL
> >
> > ___
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>
>
>
> --
> -
> Shlomi Fish   http://www.shlomifish.org/
> Original Riddles - http://www.shlomifish.org/puzzles/
>
>   VB.NET is all of the fun of enforced privacy OO with all of the
> power
> of BASIC.   — Freenode’s #perl
>
> Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .
>
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Re: [Gendergap] I f***ing love science

[Shlomi Fish]

On Sat, 30 Mar 2013 06:29:11 -0400
Joseph Reagle  wrote:

> Interesting, this reminds me of the ignorant tweeps who believed 
> (despite the text) that the character Rue in *Hunger Games* was white 
> and asked "Why is Rue Black?" in the movie.
> 
> Do folks know of other examples of this?
> 

Well, admittedly, I find it hard to visualise characters based on their
descriptions in the text. For example, I didn't picture
http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Cho_Chang as belonging to Asian descent
necessarily, even though I presumed she may have been. Then I saw her as Asian
in one of the Harry Potter films.

Regards,

Shlomi Fish

> On 03/30/2013 03:52 AM, Jane Darnell wrote:
> > Did anyone see this? A popular blogger on Science (with more than 4
> > million followers) is a woman. The woman herself, Elise Andrew, had no
> > idea it was a secret, and she was "outed" when she announced her
> > twitter account featuring a picture of herself. Apparently the bias
> > occurred because of the swear word on her facebook page which made
> > readers assume she was a man. Interesting conclusion! This is a
> > facebook hype that deserves a WP page, no?
> >
> > article is here:
> > http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/us-news-blog/2013/mar/20/i-love-science-woman-facbook
> > facebook page here:
> > http://www.facebook.com/IFeakingLoveScience
> > The TV interview with Dr. Michio Kaku on CBS morning show is here:
> > http://cbsn.ws/109mAEL
> 
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-- 
-
Shlomi Fish   http://www.shlomifish.org/
Original Riddles - http://www.shlomifish.org/puzzles/

  VB.NET is all of the fun of enforced privacy OO with all of the power
of BASIC.   — Freenode’s #perl

Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .

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Re: [Gendergap] I f***ing love science

[Katherine Casey]

Having an ungendered username gets me some interesting interactions when
people assume that because I'm not explicitly female, I must be male. Had a
fun experience on IRC last night where I asked someone to stop making jokes
about women's "boobs" because it sounded pretty creepy toward all women,
and got the reply "well, it's not like there's any women active in here,
but sure I guess [...]" When I kind of went "uh...ahem" in reply, they were
aghast that they'd been talking to a woman all this time and not realized
it.

Which sort of neatly encapsulates two sides of the problem - when people
assume the a female name is female, their actions change to suit that
(whether "suiting" it in their mind is being kinder, making boob jokes,
being more dominant, whatever). When they assume that everyone is the
"default" gender unless otherwise specified, though, or that women aren't
and couldn't be present for whatever reason, it doesn't even cross their
minds to change their actions.

-Fluffernutter

On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 5:00 AM, Jane Darnell  wrote:

> That is interesting! Of course according to the latest stats, chances
> are 87% that any Wikipedian on the English Wikipedia is male (and we
> just found out this month that in the Dutch Wikipedia, 94% are male).
> It would be definitely interesting to fund some research on this
> specific issue (how people react in AfD discussions to
> girlish-named-Wikipedians based on female gender assumptions). This
> week similar research was published on the use of the Wikipedia
> "Ignore all rules" policy in AfD's:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2013-03-25/Recent_research
>
> 2013/3/31, Risker :
> > On 30 March 2013 22:39, Daniel and Elizabeth Case
> > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>  >Thank you for sharing this Jane. It's amazing that it's still such an
> >> issue but yeah, a great example of how deeply >rooted our presumptions
> >> are.
> >>
> >> This actually happened to me, in a way, with one now long-departed
> >> Wikipedia editor. Despite a female-suffixed username*, I assumed this
> >> editor was a male because she was a flagrant asshole in some AfDs in a
> >> way
> >> that (in my experience) only men ever are. I was actually stunned to
> find
> >> out she was indeed a she.
> >>
> >>  Daniel Case
> >>
> >>  *As most of us know, username-based gender assumptions cut both ways.
> >> Users Hersfold and Nancy (see the explanation on his userpage) are both
> >> men, yet regularly deal with new editors assuming based on their names
> >> that
> >> they’re female. And I know they’re not the only ones.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > Hersfold and Nancy aren't the only ones.  I've almost come to assume that
> > if a username "sounds" feminine, it's probably attached to a man. Almost
> > every editor I know whose username ends in an "a"  is male.  And many
> > female editors have "male" sounding usernames.
> >
> > If Wikipedia has taught me one thing, it is never to assume anything
> about
> > the identity of the person on the other side of a username: not age, not
> > gender, not orientation, not geographical location, or a million other
> > things that we tend to use to categorize people.
> >
> > Risker/Anne
> >
>
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Re: [Gendergap] I f***ing love science

[Jane Darnell]

That is interesting! Of course according to the latest stats, chances
are 87% that any Wikipedian on the English Wikipedia is male (and we
just found out this month that in the Dutch Wikipedia, 94% are male).
It would be definitely interesting to fund some research on this
specific issue (how people react in AfD discussions to
girlish-named-Wikipedians based on female gender assumptions). This
week similar research was published on the use of the Wikipedia
"Ignore all rules" policy in AfD's:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2013-03-25/Recent_research

2013/3/31, Risker :
> On 30 March 2013 22:39, Daniel and Elizabeth Case
> wrote:
>
>>
>>  >Thank you for sharing this Jane. It's amazing that it's still such an
>> issue but yeah, a great example of how deeply >rooted our presumptions
>> are.
>>
>> This actually happened to me, in a way, with one now long-departed
>> Wikipedia editor. Despite a female-suffixed username*, I assumed this
>> editor was a male because she was a flagrant asshole in some AfDs in a
>> way
>> that (in my experience) only men ever are. I was actually stunned to find
>> out she was indeed a she.
>>
>>  Daniel Case
>>
>>  *As most of us know, username-based gender assumptions cut both ways.
>> Users Hersfold and Nancy (see the explanation on his userpage) are both
>> men, yet regularly deal with new editors assuming based on their names
>> that
>> they’re female. And I know they’re not the only ones.
>>
>>
>>
> Hersfold and Nancy aren't the only ones.  I've almost come to assume that
> if a username "sounds" feminine, it's probably attached to a man. Almost
> every editor I know whose username ends in an "a"  is male.  And many
> female editors have "male" sounding usernames.
>
> If Wikipedia has taught me one thing, it is never to assume anything about
> the identity of the person on the other side of a username: not age, not
> gender, not orientation, not geographical location, or a million other
> things that we tend to use to categorize people.
>
> Risker/Anne
>

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Re: [Gendergap] I f***ing love science

[Risker]

On 30 March 2013 22:39, Daniel and Elizabeth Case
wrote:

>
>  >Thank you for sharing this Jane. It's amazing that it's still such an
> issue but yeah, a great example of how deeply >rooted our presumptions are.
>
> This actually happened to me, in a way, with one now long-departed
> Wikipedia editor. Despite a female-suffixed username*, I assumed this
> editor was a male because she was a flagrant asshole in some AfDs in a way
> that (in my experience) only men ever are. I was actually stunned to find
> out she was indeed a she.
>
>  Daniel Case
>
>  *As most of us know, username-based gender assumptions cut both ways.
> Users Hersfold and Nancy (see the explanation on his userpage) are both
> men, yet regularly deal with new editors assuming based on their names that
> they’re female. And I know they’re not the only ones.
>
>
>
Hersfold and Nancy aren't the only ones.  I've almost come to assume that
if a username "sounds" feminine, it's probably attached to a man. Almost
every editor I know whose username ends in an "a"  is male.  And many
female editors have "male" sounding usernames.

If Wikipedia has taught me one thing, it is never to assume anything about
the identity of the person on the other side of a username: not age, not
gender, not orientation, not geographical location, or a million other
things that we tend to use to categorize people.

Risker/Anne
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Re: [Gendergap] I f***ing love science

[Daniel and Elizabeth Case]

>Thank you for sharing this Jane. It's amazing that it's still such an issue 
>but yeah, a great example of how deeply >rooted our presumptions are.

This actually happened to me, in a way, with one now long-departed Wikipedia 
editor. Despite a female-suffixed username*, I assumed this editor was a male 
because she was a flagrant asshole in some AfDs in a way that (in my 
experience) only men ever are. I was actually stunned to find out she was 
indeed a she.
Daniel Case
*As most of us know, username-based gender assumptions cut both ways. Users 
Hersfold and Nancy (see the explanation on his userpage) are both men, yet 
regularly deal with new editors assuming based on their names that they’re 
female. And I know they’re not the only ones.
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Re: [Gendergap] I f***ing love science

[Emily Monroe]

Good enough for this new page patroller!

From,
Emily


On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 3:16 PM, Sarah Stierch wrote:

>  There are plenty! She was notable before this incident happened. She's
> been covered/interviewed in *multiple secondary reliable sources*.
>
> -Sarah
> /who always likes a challenge.
>
>
> On 3/30/13 12:58 PM, Emily Monroe wrote:
>
> On the other hand, we need a secondary source that is more reliable than
> Facebook or Twitter.
>
> From,
> Emily
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 2:56 PM, Jane Darnell  wrote:
>
>> Awesome! Nice article. I think she is OK on the notability front.
>> Anyone who manages to accumulate more than 4 million *science*
>> followers on facebook without posting regularly on sexual subjects is
>> definitely noteworthy enough for Wikipedia. Add to that this strange
>> development on the swear-word gender miscommunication and you pass on
>> the basis of "most bizarre gendergap content to be published in 2013".
>>
>> 2013/3/30, Ilona Buchem :
>> > Hi Sarah,
>> >
>> > I am following this discussion and it's interesting to see that deciding
>> > about an entry is not straight-forward even to "core insiders". I wonder
>> > what criteria help decide if something or someone is "worth" an article
>> > in WP. How do you decide? Or: What makes it worth it or nor?
>> >
>> > -Ilona
>> >
>> > Am 3/30/13 5:17 PM, schrieb Sarah Stierch:
>> >> Oh Michael, the bearer of bad news about people who generally want to
>> >> write new articles on this mailing list.
>> >>
>> >> Is there another article where we think this type of coverage or
>> >> content could be placed? I think we could even build an article about
>> >> I Fucking Love Science instead.
>> >>
>> >> I still question if it's officially not worth an article, I haven't
>> >> researched it yet. But, at this point I'm a "pro" at making people
>> >> most declare non-notable rather notable based on research. (Oh the
>> >> curator in me!)
>> >>
>> >> -Sarah
>> >>
>> >> On 3/30/13 6:08 AM, Michael J. Lowrey wrote:
>> >>> It's appalling and depressing; but if somebody were to write a
>> >>> Wikipedia article about it, at this point, I'd say it fails
>> WP:NOTNEWS.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 2:52 AM, Jane Darnell >  >>> > wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Did anyone see this? A popular blogger on Science (with more than
>> 4
>> >>> million followers) is a woman. The woman herself, Elise Andrew,
>> >>> had no
>> >>> idea it was a secret, and she was "outed" when she announced her
>> >>> twitter account featuring a picture of herself. Apparently the
>> bias
>> >>> occurred because of the swear word on her facebook page which made
>> >>> readers assume she was a man. Interesting conclusion! This is a
>> >>> facebook hype that deserves a WP page, no?
>> >>>
>> >>> article is here:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/us-news-blog/2013/mar/20/i-love-science-woman-facbook
>> >>> facebook page here:
>> >>> http://www.facebook.com/IFeakingLoveScience
>> >>> The TV interview with Dr. Michio Kaku on CBS morning show is here:
>> >>> http://cbsn.ws/109mAEL
>> >>>
>> >>> ___
>> >>> Gendergap mailing list
>>  >>> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org > Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org>
>> >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> Michael J. "Orange Mike" Lowrey
>> >>>
>> >>> "When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left, I buy
>> >>> food and clothes."
>> >>>  --  Desiderius Erasmus
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> ___
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>> >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>>  >> *Sarah Stierch*
>> >> */Museumist and open culture advocate/*
>> >> >>Visit sarahstierch.com <<
>>  >>
>> >>
>> >> ___
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>> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
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>
>
>
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>
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> --
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> *Museumist and open culture advocate*
> >>Visit sarahstierch.com <<
>
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Re: [Gendergap] I f***ing love science

[Sarah Stierch]

There are plenty! She was notable before this incident happened. She's 
been covered/interviewed in /multiple secondary reliable sources/.


-Sarah
/who always likes a challenge.


On 3/30/13 12:58 PM, Emily Monroe wrote:
On the other hand, we need a secondary source that is more reliable 
than Facebook or Twitter.


From,
Emily


On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 2:56 PM, Jane Darnell > wrote:


Awesome! Nice article. I think she is OK on the notability front.
Anyone who manages to accumulate more than 4 million *science*
followers on facebook without posting regularly on sexual subjects is
definitely noteworthy enough for Wikipedia. Add to that this strange
development on the swear-word gender miscommunication and you pass on
the basis of "most bizarre gendergap content to be published in 2013".

2013/3/30, Ilona Buchem mailto:buc...@beuth-hochschule.de>>:
> Hi Sarah,
>
> I am following this discussion and it's interesting to see that
deciding
> about an entry is not straight-forward even to "core insiders".
I wonder
> what criteria help decide if something or someone is "worth" an
article
> in WP. How do you decide? Or: What makes it worth it or nor?
>
> -Ilona
>
> Am 3/30/13 5:17 PM, schrieb Sarah Stierch:
>> Oh Michael, the bearer of bad news about people who generally
want to
>> write new articles on this mailing list.
>>
>> Is there another article where we think this type of coverage or
>> content could be placed? I think we could even build an article
about
>> I Fucking Love Science instead.
>>
>> I still question if it's officially not worth an article, I haven't
>> researched it yet. But, at this point I'm a "pro" at making people
>> most declare non-notable rather notable based on research. (Oh the
>> curator in me!)
>>
>> -Sarah
>>
>> On 3/30/13 6:08 AM, Michael J. Lowrey wrote:
>>> It's appalling and depressing; but if somebody were to write a
>>> Wikipedia article about it, at this point, I'd say it fails
WP:NOTNEWS.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 2:52 AM, Jane Darnell
mailto:jane...@gmail.com>
>>> >> wrote:
>>>
>>> Did anyone see this? A popular blogger on Science (with
more than 4
>>> million followers) is a woman. The woman herself, Elise
Andrew,
>>> had no
>>> idea it was a secret, and she was "outed" when she
announced her
>>> twitter account featuring a picture of herself. Apparently
the bias
>>> occurred because of the swear word on her facebook page
which made
>>> readers assume she was a man. Interesting conclusion! This
is a
>>> facebook hype that deserves a WP page, no?
>>>
>>> article is here:
>>>
>>>

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/us-news-blog/2013/mar/20/i-love-science-woman-facbook
>>> facebook page here:
>>> http://www.facebook.com/IFeakingLoveScience
>>> The TV interview with Dr. Michio Kaku on CBS morning show
is here:
>>> http://cbsn.ws/109mAEL
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Gendergap mailing list
>>> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org

>
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Michael J. "Orange Mike" Lowrey
>>>
>>> "When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left, I buy
>>> food and clothes."
>>>  --  Desiderius Erasmus
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Gendergap mailing list
>>> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org

>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Sarah Stierch*
>> */Museumist and open culture advocate/*
>> >>Visit sarahstierch.com 
<<
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>
>
>

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--
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*/Museumist and open culture advocate/*
>>Visit sarahstierch.com <<
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Re: [Gendergap] I f***ing love science

[Emily Monroe]

On the other hand, we need a secondary source that is more reliable than
Facebook or Twitter.

From,
Emily


On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 2:56 PM, Jane Darnell  wrote:

> Awesome! Nice article. I think she is OK on the notability front.
> Anyone who manages to accumulate more than 4 million *science*
> followers on facebook without posting regularly on sexual subjects is
> definitely noteworthy enough for Wikipedia. Add to that this strange
> development on the swear-word gender miscommunication and you pass on
> the basis of "most bizarre gendergap content to be published in 2013".
>
> 2013/3/30, Ilona Buchem :
> > Hi Sarah,
> >
> > I am following this discussion and it's interesting to see that deciding
> > about an entry is not straight-forward even to "core insiders". I wonder
> > what criteria help decide if something or someone is "worth" an article
> > in WP. How do you decide? Or: What makes it worth it or nor?
> >
> > -Ilona
> >
> > Am 3/30/13 5:17 PM, schrieb Sarah Stierch:
> >> Oh Michael, the bearer of bad news about people who generally want to
> >> write new articles on this mailing list.
> >>
> >> Is there another article where we think this type of coverage or
> >> content could be placed? I think we could even build an article about
> >> I Fucking Love Science instead.
> >>
> >> I still question if it's officially not worth an article, I haven't
> >> researched it yet. But, at this point I'm a "pro" at making people
> >> most declare non-notable rather notable based on research. (Oh the
> >> curator in me!)
> >>
> >> -Sarah
> >>
> >> On 3/30/13 6:08 AM, Michael J. Lowrey wrote:
> >>> It's appalling and depressing; but if somebody were to write a
> >>> Wikipedia article about it, at this point, I'd say it fails WP:NOTNEWS.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 2:52 AM, Jane Darnell  >>> > wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Did anyone see this? A popular blogger on Science (with more than 4
> >>> million followers) is a woman. The woman herself, Elise Andrew,
> >>> had no
> >>> idea it was a secret, and she was "outed" when she announced her
> >>> twitter account featuring a picture of herself. Apparently the bias
> >>> occurred because of the swear word on her facebook page which made
> >>> readers assume she was a man. Interesting conclusion! This is a
> >>> facebook hype that deserves a WP page, no?
> >>>
> >>> article is here:
> >>>
> >>>
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/us-news-blog/2013/mar/20/i-love-science-woman-facbook
> >>> facebook page here:
> >>> http://www.facebook.com/IFeakingLoveScience
> >>> The TV interview with Dr. Michio Kaku on CBS morning show is here:
> >>> http://cbsn.ws/109mAEL
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> Gendergap mailing list
> >>> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org  Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org>
> >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Michael J. "Orange Mike" Lowrey
> >>>
> >>> "When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left, I buy
> >>> food and clothes."
> >>>  --  Desiderius Erasmus
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> Gendergap mailing list
> >>> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
> >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> *Sarah Stierch*
> >> */Museumist and open culture advocate/*
> >> >>Visit sarahstierch.com <<
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Gendergap mailing list
> >> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
> >
> >
> >
>
> ___
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Re: [Gendergap] I f***ing love science

[Jane Darnell]

Awesome! Nice article. I think she is OK on the notability front.
Anyone who manages to accumulate more than 4 million *science*
followers on facebook without posting regularly on sexual subjects is
definitely noteworthy enough for Wikipedia. Add to that this strange
development on the swear-word gender miscommunication and you pass on
the basis of "most bizarre gendergap content to be published in 2013".

2013/3/30, Ilona Buchem :
> Hi Sarah,
>
> I am following this discussion and it's interesting to see that deciding
> about an entry is not straight-forward even to "core insiders". I wonder
> what criteria help decide if something or someone is "worth" an article
> in WP. How do you decide? Or: What makes it worth it or nor?
>
> -Ilona
>
> Am 3/30/13 5:17 PM, schrieb Sarah Stierch:
>> Oh Michael, the bearer of bad news about people who generally want to
>> write new articles on this mailing list.
>>
>> Is there another article where we think this type of coverage or
>> content could be placed? I think we could even build an article about
>> I Fucking Love Science instead.
>>
>> I still question if it's officially not worth an article, I haven't
>> researched it yet. But, at this point I'm a "pro" at making people
>> most declare non-notable rather notable based on research. (Oh the
>> curator in me!)
>>
>> -Sarah
>>
>> On 3/30/13 6:08 AM, Michael J. Lowrey wrote:
>>> It's appalling and depressing; but if somebody were to write a
>>> Wikipedia article about it, at this point, I'd say it fails WP:NOTNEWS.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 2:52 AM, Jane Darnell >> > wrote:
>>>
>>> Did anyone see this? A popular blogger on Science (with more than 4
>>> million followers) is a woman. The woman herself, Elise Andrew,
>>> had no
>>> idea it was a secret, and she was "outed" when she announced her
>>> twitter account featuring a picture of herself. Apparently the bias
>>> occurred because of the swear word on her facebook page which made
>>> readers assume she was a man. Interesting conclusion! This is a
>>> facebook hype that deserves a WP page, no?
>>>
>>> article is here:
>>>
>>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/us-news-blog/2013/mar/20/i-love-science-woman-facbook
>>> facebook page here:
>>> http://www.facebook.com/IFeakingLoveScience
>>> The TV interview with Dr. Michio Kaku on CBS morning show is here:
>>> http://cbsn.ws/109mAEL
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Gendergap mailing list
>>> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org 
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Michael J. "Orange Mike" Lowrey
>>>
>>> "When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left, I buy
>>> food and clothes."
>>>  --  Desiderius Erasmus
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Gendergap mailing list
>>> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Sarah Stierch*
>> */Museumist and open culture advocate/*
>> >>Visit sarahstierch.com <<
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Gendergap mailing list
>> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>
>
>

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Re: [Gendergap] I f***ing love science

[Ilona Buchem]

Hi Sarah,

I am following this discussion and it's interesting to see that deciding 
about an entry is not straight-forward even to "core insiders". I wonder 
what criteria help decide if something or someone is "worth" an article 
in WP. How do you decide? Or: What makes it worth it or nor?


-Ilona

Am 3/30/13 5:17 PM, schrieb Sarah Stierch:
Oh Michael, the bearer of bad news about people who generally want to 
write new articles on this mailing list.


Is there another article where we think this type of coverage or 
content could be placed? I think we could even build an article about 
I Fucking Love Science instead.


I still question if it's officially not worth an article, I haven't 
researched it yet. But, at this point I'm a "pro" at making people 
most declare non-notable rather notable based on research. (Oh the 
curator in me!)


-Sarah

On 3/30/13 6:08 AM, Michael J. Lowrey wrote:
It's appalling and depressing; but if somebody were to write a 
Wikipedia article about it, at this point, I'd say it fails WP:NOTNEWS.



On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 2:52 AM, Jane Darnell > wrote:


Did anyone see this? A popular blogger on Science (with more than 4
million followers) is a woman. The woman herself, Elise Andrew,
had no
idea it was a secret, and she was "outed" when she announced her
twitter account featuring a picture of herself. Apparently the bias
occurred because of the swear word on her facebook page which made
readers assume she was a man. Interesting conclusion! This is a
facebook hype that deserves a WP page, no?

article is here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/us-news-blog/2013/mar/20/i-love-science-woman-facbook
facebook page here:
http://www.facebook.com/IFeakingLoveScience
The TV interview with Dr. Michio Kaku on CBS morning show is here:
http://cbsn.ws/109mAEL

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--
Michael J. "Orange Mike" Lowrey

"When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left, I buy 
food and clothes."

 --  Desiderius Erasmus


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--
*Sarah Stierch*
*/Museumist and open culture advocate/*
>>Visit sarahstierch.com <<


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Re: [Gendergap] I f***ing love science

[Michael J. Lowrey]

I'd say we need to use the usual resources to figure out whether she or her
blog gets the most coverage, and craft an article for whichever subject it
is.

(I know I'm a meanie, Sarah; but I'm an equal-opportunity wet blanket,
quashing ideas about things I love as well as those I don't care about and
those I despise, if I think they don't qualify.)



On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 11:17 AM, Sarah Stierch wrote:

>  Oh Michael, the bearer of bad news about people who generally want to
> write new articles on this mailing list.
>
> Is there another article where we think this type of coverage or content
> could be placed? I think we could even build an article about I Fucking
> Love Science instead.
>
> I still question if it's officially not worth an article, I haven't
> researched it yet. But, at this point I'm a "pro" at making people most
> declare non-notable rather notable based on research. (Oh the curator in
> me!)
>
> -Sarah
>
>
> On 3/30/13 6:08 AM, Michael J. Lowrey wrote:
>
> It's appalling and depressing; but if somebody were to write a Wikipedia
> article about it, at this point, I'd say it fails WP:NOTNEWS.
>
>
>  On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 2:52 AM, Jane Darnell  wrote:
>
>> Did anyone see this? A popular blogger on Science (with more than 4
>> million followers) is a woman. The woman herself, Elise Andrew, had no
>> idea it was a secret, and she was "outed" when she announced her
>> twitter account featuring a picture of herself. Apparently the bias
>> occurred because of the swear word on her facebook page which made
>> readers assume she was a man. Interesting conclusion! This is a
>> facebook hype that deserves a WP page, no?
>>
>> article is here:
>>
>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/us-news-blog/2013/mar/20/i-love-science-woman-facbook
>> facebook page here:
>> http://www.facebook.com/IFeakingLoveScience
>> The TV interview with Dr. Michio Kaku on CBS morning show is here:
>> http://cbsn.ws/109mAEL
>>
>> ___
>> Gendergap mailing list
>> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Michael J. "Orange Mike" Lowrey
>
> "When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left, I buy food and
> clothes."
>  --  Desiderius Erasmus
>
>
> ___
> Gendergap mailing 
> listGendergap@lists.wikimedia.orghttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>
>
>
> --
> *Sarah Stierch*
> *Museumist and open culture advocate*
> >>Visit sarahstierch.com <<
>
> ___
> Gendergap mailing list
> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>
>


-- 
Michael J. "Orange Mike" Lowrey

"When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left, I buy food and
clothes."
 --  Desiderius Erasmus
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Re: [Gendergap] I f***ing love science

[Sarah Stierch]

Oh Michael, the bearer of bad news about people who generally want to 
write new articles on this mailing list.


Is there another article where we think this type of coverage or content 
could be placed? I think we could even build an article about I Fucking 
Love Science instead.


I still question if it's officially not worth an article, I haven't 
researched it yet. But, at this point I'm a "pro" at making people most 
declare non-notable rather notable based on research. (Oh the curator in 
me!)


-Sarah

On 3/30/13 6:08 AM, Michael J. Lowrey wrote:
It's appalling and depressing; but if somebody were to write a 
Wikipedia article about it, at this point, I'd say it fails WP:NOTNEWS.



On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 2:52 AM, Jane Darnell > wrote:


Did anyone see this? A popular blogger on Science (with more than 4
million followers) is a woman. The woman herself, Elise Andrew, had no
idea it was a secret, and she was "outed" when she announced her
twitter account featuring a picture of herself. Apparently the bias
occurred because of the swear word on her facebook page which made
readers assume she was a man. Interesting conclusion! This is a
facebook hype that deserves a WP page, no?

article is here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/us-news-blog/2013/mar/20/i-love-science-woman-facbook
facebook page here:
http://www.facebook.com/IFeakingLoveScience
The TV interview with Dr. Michio Kaku on CBS morning show is here:
http://cbsn.ws/109mAEL

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--
Michael J. "Orange Mike" Lowrey

"When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left, I buy food 
and clothes."

 --  Desiderius Erasmus


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--
*Sarah Stierch*
*/Museumist and open culture advocate/*
>>Visit sarahstierch.com <<
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Re: [Gendergap] I f***ing love science

[Sarah Stierch]

Jane -

I saw her interview on CBS and said to myself "I need to write a 
Wikipedia article for her."


I just haven't been able to get to it! Let's do this :)

I fucking love Wikipedia! <3 <3

-Sarah

On 3/30/13 12:52 AM, Jane Darnell wrote:

Did anyone see this? A popular blogger on Science (with more than 4
million followers) is a woman. The woman herself, Elise Andrew, had no
idea it was a secret, and she was "outed" when she announced her
twitter account featuring a picture of herself. Apparently the bias
occurred because of the swear word on her facebook page which made
readers assume she was a man. Interesting conclusion! This is a
facebook hype that deserves a WP page, no?

article is here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/us-news-blog/2013/mar/20/i-love-science-woman-facbook
facebook page here:
http://www.facebook.com/IFeakingLoveScience
The TV interview with Dr. Michio Kaku on CBS morning show is here:
http://cbsn.ws/109mAEL

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*Sarah Stierch*
*/Museumist and open culture advocate/*
>>Visit sarahstierch.com <<
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Re: [Gendergap] I f***ing love science

[Michael J. Lowrey]

It's appalling and depressing; but if somebody were to write a Wikipedia
article about it, at this point, I'd say it fails WP:NOTNEWS.


On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 2:52 AM, Jane Darnell  wrote:

> Did anyone see this? A popular blogger on Science (with more than 4
> million followers) is a woman. The woman herself, Elise Andrew, had no
> idea it was a secret, and she was "outed" when she announced her
> twitter account featuring a picture of herself. Apparently the bias
> occurred because of the swear word on her facebook page which made
> readers assume she was a man. Interesting conclusion! This is a
> facebook hype that deserves a WP page, no?
>
> article is here:
>
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/us-news-blog/2013/mar/20/i-love-science-woman-facbook
> facebook page here:
> http://www.facebook.com/IFeakingLoveScience
> The TV interview with Dr. Michio Kaku on CBS morning show is here:
> http://cbsn.ws/109mAEL
>
> ___
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>



-- 
Michael J. "Orange Mike" Lowrey

"When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left, I buy food and
clothes."
 --  Desiderius Erasmus
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Re: [Gendergap] I f***ing love science

[Ilona Buchem]

Thank you for sharing this Jane. It's amazing that it's still such an 
issue but yeah, a great example of how deeply rooted our presumptions are.



Am 3/30/13 8:52 AM, schrieb Jane Darnell:

Did anyone see this? A popular blogger on Science (with more than 4
million followers) is a woman. The woman herself, Elise Andrew, had no
idea it was a secret, and she was "outed" when she announced her
twitter account featuring a picture of herself. Apparently the bias
occurred because of the swear word on her facebook page which made
readers assume she was a man. Interesting conclusion! This is a
facebook hype that deserves a WP page, no?

article is here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/us-news-blog/2013/mar/20/i-love-science-woman-facbook
facebook page here:
http://www.facebook.com/IFeakingLoveScience
The TV interview with Dr. Michio Kaku on CBS morning show is here:
http://cbsn.ws/109mAEL

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--
Prof. Dr. Ilona Buchem
Gastprofessorin für Medienforschung und Chancengleichheit
Professor for Digital Media & Diversity

Beuth Hochschule für Technik Berlin
Beuth University of Applied Sciences
FBI Wirtschafts- und Gesellschaftswissenschaften
Department of Economics and Social Sciences
Haus Gauss/Room 230, Luxemburger Str. 10, D-13353 Berlin

Tel. 0049-30-45045243
Homepage: http://prof.beuth-hochschule.de/buchem
Blog: ibuchem.wordpress.com 
Twitter: mediendidaktik 
Skype: Ilona.tfh
The PLE Conference 2013 Berlin: http://pleconf.org
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Re: [Gendergap] I f***ing love science

[Joseph Reagle]

Interesting, this reminds me of the ignorant tweeps who believed 
(despite the text) that the character Rue in *Hunger Games* was white 
and asked "Why is Rue Black?" in the movie.


Do folks know of other examples of this?

On 03/30/2013 03:52 AM, Jane Darnell wrote:

Did anyone see this? A popular blogger on Science (with more than 4
million followers) is a woman. The woman herself, Elise Andrew, had no
idea it was a secret, and she was "outed" when she announced her
twitter account featuring a picture of herself. Apparently the bias
occurred because of the swear word on her facebook page which made
readers assume she was a man. Interesting conclusion! This is a
facebook hype that deserves a WP page, no?

article is here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/us-news-blog/2013/mar/20/i-love-science-woman-facbook
facebook page here:
http://www.facebook.com/IFeakingLoveScience
The TV interview with Dr. Michio Kaku on CBS morning show is here:
http://cbsn.ws/109mAEL


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[Gendergap] I f***ing love science

[Jane Darnell]

Did anyone see this? A popular blogger on Science (with more than 4
million followers) is a woman. The woman herself, Elise Andrew, had no
idea it was a secret, and she was "outed" when she announced her
twitter account featuring a picture of herself. Apparently the bias
occurred because of the swear word on her facebook page which made
readers assume she was a man. Interesting conclusion! This is a
facebook hype that deserves a WP page, no?

article is here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/us-news-blog/2013/mar/20/i-love-science-woman-facbook
facebook page here:
http://www.facebook.com/IFeakingLoveScience
The TV interview with Dr. Michio Kaku on CBS morning show is here:
http://cbsn.ws/109mAEL

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