Re: [VOTE] Accept XTable into the ASF Incubator
+1 (non-binding) Best, Ashvin On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 9:55 PM Jean-Baptiste Onofré wrote: > +1 (binding) > > Regards > JB > > On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 5:17 AM Jesus Camacho Rodriguez > wrote: > > > > Hi All, > > > > Following the discussion in the incubator mailing list [1], I am starting > > this official vote for the XTable project. > > > > Here is the proposal - > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/XTable+Proposal > > > > Please cast your vote: > > > > [ ] +1, bring XTable into the Incubator > > [ ] +0, I don't care either way > > [ ] -1, do not bring XTable into the Incubator, because... > > > > This majority vote is open for at least 96 hours (due to the weekend). > > > > Only votes from Incubator PMC members are binding, but other votes are > > welcome! > > > > Thanks, > > Jesús > > > > [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/rx9z8ffrf37qjhpkf1vp5rqg5lhht7jm > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >
Re: [DISCUSS] Procedure for graduating an existing sub project to new top level project
Hi Andrew We did a similar move while ago for Apache Karaf (from Apache ServiceMix, then Felix, then TLP :)). AFAIR, you propose a resolution to the board with approval from PMC, proposing a new PMC/committer set. Regards JB On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 4:06 PM Andrew Lamb wrote: > > I apologize if this is not the right list on which to ask this question. > > Can someone point to information about the procedure to propose > “graduating” an *existing* sub project to a new top level project? > > Specifically, we are working on a proposal to graduate the “Apache Arrow > DataFusion”[1] sub project to its own Top Level Project. The DataFusion > project has sort of been “incubating” within the Arrow top level project > for several years and has grown to the point where it can both stand on its > own as well as benefit from more focused community[2]. > > I searched the archives of this list [3] and did not find anything that > seemed relevant. > > I did find, farther back in history, that the Mahout, Avro and HBase > projects appear to have previously “graduated” from sub projects of Hadoop > to their own top level projects but could not determine how they did so. > > Thank you for any guidance you may be able to provide, > > Andrew > > [1] https://arrow.apache.org/datafusion/ > > [2] https://github.com/apache/arrow-datafusion/discussions/6475 > > [3] https://lists.apache.org/list.html?general@incubator.apache.org > [4] > https://news.apache.org/foundation/entry/the_apache_software_foundation_announces4 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Accept XTable into the ASF Incubator
+1 (binding) Regards JB On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 5:17 AM Jesus Camacho Rodriguez wrote: > > Hi All, > > Following the discussion in the incubator mailing list [1], I am starting > this official vote for the XTable project. > > Here is the proposal - > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/XTable+Proposal > > Please cast your vote: > > [ ] +1, bring XTable into the Incubator > [ ] +0, I don't care either way > [ ] -1, do not bring XTable into the Incubator, because... > > This majority vote is open for at least 96 hours (due to the weekend). > > Only votes from Incubator PMC members are binding, but other votes are > welcome! > > Thanks, > Jesús > > [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/rx9z8ffrf37qjhpkf1vp5rqg5lhht7jm - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
[VOTE] Accept XTable into the ASF Incubator
Hi All, Following the discussion in the incubator mailing list [1], I am starting this official vote for the XTable project. Here is the proposal - https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/XTable+Proposal Please cast your vote: [ ] +1, bring XTable into the Incubator [ ] +0, I don't care either way [ ] -1, do not bring XTable into the Incubator, because... This majority vote is open for at least 96 hours (due to the weekend). Only votes from Incubator PMC members are binding, but other votes are welcome! Thanks, Jesús [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/rx9z8ffrf37qjhpkf1vp5rqg5lhht7jm
Re: [DISCUSS] OneTable proposal
Thanks, Carl. Thanks also to all others that have chimed in expressing their support, asking questions, and providing feedback. I'll be starting the vote shortly. -Jesús On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 7:32 PM Carl Steinbach wrote: > Please go ahead with the vote. > > On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 6:13 PM Jesus Camacho Rodriguez < > jcama...@apache.org> > wrote: > > > Hi Carl, > > > > Your last message did not provide many details and we have not heard back > > from you after a day; I'd appreciate any updates or insights into > > your thought process that you could share. > > > > As JB mentioned, I see no reason to delay the vote to move into > incubation. > > Community growth is one of the main goals during incubation and I think > it > > is important to keep things progressing at this stage. (In addition, as > > mentioned earlier in the thread, we have conducted a lot of outreach, I'd > > say over and above what a typical project entering the ASF incubator > would > > do, which is also reflected in the initial list of committers.) > > > > Thanks, > > Jesús > > > > On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 10:00 AM Ashvin A wrote: > > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > +1 to JB's points. Thanks Jesus for steering this discussion. > > > I wholeheartedly support XTable. The potential of this initiative is > > > immense, especially considering feedback from storage formats users and > > the > > > benchmark we've been developing. > > > I'm eagerly looking forward to collaborating with all who have > committed > > to > > > this project, as well as those in the pipeline and keeping an eye on > our > > > progress. > > > I appreciate everyone's support and valuable feedback. > > > > > > Best, > > > Ashvin > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 1:24 AM Jean-Baptiste Onofré > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > I think that's also the purpose of the incubation to grow the > > > > community, both users community but also dev communities. > > > > So, I don't see a blocker for incubation but more for graduation. > > > > > > > > I would start with the initial committer list with the target to grow > > > > during incubation, including people from other projects (Iceberg, > > > > Hudi, Paimon, ...). > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > JB > > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 5:06 AM Jesus Camacho Rodriguez > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Carl, thanks for chiming in. > > > > > > > > > > Certainly, let me address that part. > > > > > > > > > > Concerning the initial list of committers: While the project > > originated > > > > > from Onehouse (a company whose offering is powered by Apache Hudi), > > > it's > > > > > important to highlight that there has been an effort to have an > > initial > > > > > list of committers that work for a diverse range of companies > > invested > > > in > > > > > different table formats, including Onehouse (4 committers), > Microsoft > > > > (2), > > > > > Google (1), Walmart (1), Adobe (1), Cloudera (1), and Dremio (1). I > > > > believe > > > > > this diversity dispels the notion of a lack of representation or an > > > > > outsized influence from a single group in the community. > > > > > > > > > > Regarding outreach to other communities: As part of the incubation > > > > > proposal, we extended invitations to participate in this discussion > > and > > > > > contribute to the project to members of the communities of the most > > > > popular > > > > > OSS table formats [1][2][3][4]. Responses generally fell into four > > > > > categories (including some private responses): (1) Positive > > reception, > > > > > interest in the proposal/vision, and/or thinking about engaging > > once/if > > > > the > > > > > project is in the ASF. (2) Technical/feasibility questions, which > we > > > > > encouraged them to ask on Github since that is our current > > > communication > > > > > platform in the XTable project. (3) No response received. (4) > > > > Disagreement, > > > > > we should all adopt specific format z. It's important to > acknowledge > > > the > > > > > diversity in these communities and recognize that interest on > XTable > > / > > > > > opinions on XTable's viability vary. > > > > > > > > > > Some additional thoughts: I believe everyone involved in XTable is > > > > > genuinely working towards making the right decisions for the > project > > > and > > > > > they are demonstrating good faith, e.g., hopefully evident in the > > > prompt > > > > > response to the project's name change when concerns were raised. > The > > > goal > > > > > is to create a vendor-neutral project with a thriving, inclusive > > > > community. > > > > > In my view, given the current list of initial committers, there is > no > > > > lack > > > > > of diversity, and including other committers from table format > > > > communities > > > > > does not address the remaining concern about the project, which > stems > > > > from > > > > > the fact that it actually originated in a company backing one of > the > > > > table > > > > > format projects,
Re: [DISCUSS] OneTable proposal
Please go ahead with the vote. On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 6:13 PM Jesus Camacho Rodriguez wrote: > Hi Carl, > > Your last message did not provide many details and we have not heard back > from you after a day; I'd appreciate any updates or insights into > your thought process that you could share. > > As JB mentioned, I see no reason to delay the vote to move into incubation. > Community growth is one of the main goals during incubation and I think it > is important to keep things progressing at this stage. (In addition, as > mentioned earlier in the thread, we have conducted a lot of outreach, I'd > say over and above what a typical project entering the ASF incubator would > do, which is also reflected in the initial list of committers.) > > Thanks, > Jesús > > On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 10:00 AM Ashvin A wrote: > > > Hi All, > > > > +1 to JB's points. Thanks Jesus for steering this discussion. > > I wholeheartedly support XTable. The potential of this initiative is > > immense, especially considering feedback from storage formats users and > the > > benchmark we've been developing. > > I'm eagerly looking forward to collaborating with all who have committed > to > > this project, as well as those in the pipeline and keeping an eye on our > > progress. > > I appreciate everyone's support and valuable feedback. > > > > Best, > > Ashvin > > > > On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 1:24 AM Jean-Baptiste Onofré > > wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > I think that's also the purpose of the incubation to grow the > > > community, both users community but also dev communities. > > > So, I don't see a blocker for incubation but more for graduation. > > > > > > I would start with the initial committer list with the target to grow > > > during incubation, including people from other projects (Iceberg, > > > Hudi, Paimon, ...). > > > > > > Regards > > > JB > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 5:06 AM Jesus Camacho Rodriguez > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Carl, thanks for chiming in. > > > > > > > > Certainly, let me address that part. > > > > > > > > Concerning the initial list of committers: While the project > originated > > > > from Onehouse (a company whose offering is powered by Apache Hudi), > > it's > > > > important to highlight that there has been an effort to have an > initial > > > > list of committers that work for a diverse range of companies > invested > > in > > > > different table formats, including Onehouse (4 committers), Microsoft > > > (2), > > > > Google (1), Walmart (1), Adobe (1), Cloudera (1), and Dremio (1). I > > > believe > > > > this diversity dispels the notion of a lack of representation or an > > > > outsized influence from a single group in the community. > > > > > > > > Regarding outreach to other communities: As part of the incubation > > > > proposal, we extended invitations to participate in this discussion > and > > > > contribute to the project to members of the communities of the most > > > popular > > > > OSS table formats [1][2][3][4]. Responses generally fell into four > > > > categories (including some private responses): (1) Positive > reception, > > > > interest in the proposal/vision, and/or thinking about engaging > once/if > > > the > > > > project is in the ASF. (2) Technical/feasibility questions, which we > > > > encouraged them to ask on Github since that is our current > > communication > > > > platform in the XTable project. (3) No response received. (4) > > > Disagreement, > > > > we should all adopt specific format z. It's important to acknowledge > > the > > > > diversity in these communities and recognize that interest on XTable > / > > > > opinions on XTable's viability vary. > > > > > > > > Some additional thoughts: I believe everyone involved in XTable is > > > > genuinely working towards making the right decisions for the project > > and > > > > they are demonstrating good faith, e.g., hopefully evident in the > > prompt > > > > response to the project's name change when concerns were raised. The > > goal > > > > is to create a vendor-neutral project with a thriving, inclusive > > > community. > > > > In my view, given the current list of initial committers, there is no > > > lack > > > > of diversity, and including other committers from table format > > > communities > > > > does not address the remaining concern about the project, which stems > > > from > > > > the fact that it actually originated in a company backing one of the > > > table > > > > format projects, i.e., Apache Hudi. > > > > Instead, I'd argue it's more important to focus on establishing > XTable > > as > > > > an independent project governed by ASF's meritocracy principles. That > > > will > > > > naturally serve as an invitation for individuals to contribute, > become > > > > committers, PPMC/PMC members, etc. While we are still in the very > early > > > > stages of that journey, I believe that focusing on these principles > and > > > > building the XTable community around them is ultimately the way to
Re: [DISCUSS] OneTable proposal
Hi Carl, Your last message did not provide many details and we have not heard back from you after a day; I'd appreciate any updates or insights into your thought process that you could share. As JB mentioned, I see no reason to delay the vote to move into incubation. Community growth is one of the main goals during incubation and I think it is important to keep things progressing at this stage. (In addition, as mentioned earlier in the thread, we have conducted a lot of outreach, I'd say over and above what a typical project entering the ASF incubator would do, which is also reflected in the initial list of committers.) Thanks, Jesús On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 10:00 AM Ashvin A wrote: > Hi All, > > +1 to JB's points. Thanks Jesus for steering this discussion. > I wholeheartedly support XTable. The potential of this initiative is > immense, especially considering feedback from storage formats users and the > benchmark we've been developing. > I'm eagerly looking forward to collaborating with all who have committed to > this project, as well as those in the pipeline and keeping an eye on our > progress. > I appreciate everyone's support and valuable feedback. > > Best, > Ashvin > > On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 1:24 AM Jean-Baptiste Onofré > wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > I think that's also the purpose of the incubation to grow the > > community, both users community but also dev communities. > > So, I don't see a blocker for incubation but more for graduation. > > > > I would start with the initial committer list with the target to grow > > during incubation, including people from other projects (Iceberg, > > Hudi, Paimon, ...). > > > > Regards > > JB > > > > On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 5:06 AM Jesus Camacho Rodriguez > > wrote: > > > > > > Carl, thanks for chiming in. > > > > > > Certainly, let me address that part. > > > > > > Concerning the initial list of committers: While the project originated > > > from Onehouse (a company whose offering is powered by Apache Hudi), > it's > > > important to highlight that there has been an effort to have an initial > > > list of committers that work for a diverse range of companies invested > in > > > different table formats, including Onehouse (4 committers), Microsoft > > (2), > > > Google (1), Walmart (1), Adobe (1), Cloudera (1), and Dremio (1). I > > believe > > > this diversity dispels the notion of a lack of representation or an > > > outsized influence from a single group in the community. > > > > > > Regarding outreach to other communities: As part of the incubation > > > proposal, we extended invitations to participate in this discussion and > > > contribute to the project to members of the communities of the most > > popular > > > OSS table formats [1][2][3][4]. Responses generally fell into four > > > categories (including some private responses): (1) Positive reception, > > > interest in the proposal/vision, and/or thinking about engaging once/if > > the > > > project is in the ASF. (2) Technical/feasibility questions, which we > > > encouraged them to ask on Github since that is our current > communication > > > platform in the XTable project. (3) No response received. (4) > > Disagreement, > > > we should all adopt specific format z. It's important to acknowledge > the > > > diversity in these communities and recognize that interest on XTable / > > > opinions on XTable's viability vary. > > > > > > Some additional thoughts: I believe everyone involved in XTable is > > > genuinely working towards making the right decisions for the project > and > > > they are demonstrating good faith, e.g., hopefully evident in the > prompt > > > response to the project's name change when concerns were raised. The > goal > > > is to create a vendor-neutral project with a thriving, inclusive > > community. > > > In my view, given the current list of initial committers, there is no > > lack > > > of diversity, and including other committers from table format > > communities > > > does not address the remaining concern about the project, which stems > > from > > > the fact that it actually originated in a company backing one of the > > table > > > format projects, i.e., Apache Hudi. > > > Instead, I'd argue it's more important to focus on establishing XTable > as > > > an independent project governed by ASF's meritocracy principles. That > > will > > > naturally serve as an invitation for individuals to contribute, become > > > committers, PPMC/PMC members, etc. While we are still in the very early > > > stages of that journey, I believe that focusing on these principles and > > > building the XTable community around them is ultimately the way to > > mitigate > > > the remaining concern. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Jesús > > > > > > > > > [1] Apache Paimon (incubating): > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread/t29ghx79cp2rlw20s9p0b8o86c5lzgk7 > > > [2] Apache Iceberg: > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread/lwlrscyklkxqmp28pbxpxko9r1vw4s4z > > > [3] Apache Hudi: > > >
Podling report slipped
Looks like I missed the deadline for KIE, I'm sorry. I'll get one for next month. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Procedure for graduating an existing sub project to new top level project
For what it's worth, Arrow was created in Jan 2016 [1]. Here is the text of the Board resolution. Julian [1] https://www.apache.org/foundation/records/minutes/2016/board_minutes_2016_01_20.txt --- 7. Special Orders A. Establish the Apache Arrow Project WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best interests of the Foundation and consistent with the Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of open-source software, for distribution at no charge to the public, related to columnar in-memory processing and data interchange NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Arrow Project", be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the Foundation; and be it further RESOLVED, that the Apache Arrow Project be and hereby is responsible for the creation and maintenance of software related to columnar in-memory processing and data interchange; and be it further RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Arrow" be and hereby is created, the person holding such office to serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair of the Apache Arrow Project, and to have primary responsibility for management of the projects within the scope of responsibility of the Apache Arrow Project; and be it further RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the Apache Arrow Project: * Todd Lipcon * Ted Dunning * Michael Stack * P. Taylor Goetz * Reynold Xin * Julian Hyde * Julien Le Dem * Jacques Nadeau * James Taylor * Jake Luciani * Parth Chandra * Alex Levenson * Marcel Kornacker * Steven Phillips * Hanifi Gunes * Jason Altekruse * Abdel Hakim Deneche NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that Jacques Nadeau be appointed to the office of Vice President, Apache Arrow, to serve in accordance with and subject to the direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or disqualification, or until a successor is appointed. RESOLVED, that the Apache Arrow Project be and hereby is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the Apache Drill Arrow sub-project; and be it further RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache Drill Arrow sub-project encumbered upon the Apache Drill Project are hereafter discharged. Special Order 7A, Establish the Apache Arrow Project, was approved by Unanimous Vote of the directors present. On 2023/12/15 16:02:15 Andrew Lamb wrote: > Thank you Julian. This is very helpful. I will review the archives. > > Andrew > > On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 10:55 AM Julian Hyde wrote: > > > I believe the process is for the Board to create a new PMC whose IP and > > PMC members are an exact copy of the parent PMC. (Like the Unix “fork” > > function.) And then both PMCs delete the stuff, and PMC members, they no > > longer need. > > > > Arrow itself was created via this process (from Drill). You could search > > the archives for the board resolution that created Arrow. The Incubator is > > not involved in the process. (Except in some minor ways, such as a name > > search.) > > > > Julian > > > > > On Dec 15, 2023, at 7:09 AM, Andrew Lamb wrote: > > > > > > I apologize if this is not the right list on which to ask this question. > > > > > > Can someone point to information about the procedure to propose > > > “graduating” an *existing* sub project to a new top level project? > > > > > > Specifically, we are working on a proposal to graduate the “Apache Arrow > > > DataFusion”[1] sub project to its own Top Level Project. The DataFusion > > > project has sort of been “incubating” within the Arrow top level project > > > for several years and has grown to the point where it can both stand on > > its > > > own as well as benefit from more focused community[2]. > > > > > > I searched the archives of this list [3] and did not find anything that > > > seemed relevant. > > > > > > I did find, farther back in history, that the Mahout, Avro and HBase > > > projects appear to have previously “graduated” from sub projects of > > Hadoop > > > to their own top level projects but could not determine how they did so. > > > > > > Thank you for any guidance you may be able to provide, > > > > > > Andrew > > > > > > [1] https://arrow.apache.org/datafusion/ > > > > > > [2] https://github.com/apache/arrow-datafusion/discussions/6475 > > > > > > [3]
Re: [DISCUSS] Procedure for graduating an existing sub project to new top level project
Thank you -- I will proceed with a name search and work up a proposal draft as next steps. I am tracking this work in [1] for anyone who wishes to follow along. [1] https://github.com/apache/arrow-datafusion/issues/8491 On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 1:24 PM Dave Fisher wrote: > You could also look into how Solr was spun out of Lucene. > > It would be up to your PMC whether to make the new PMC identical or not. > > Doing a podling name search on > DataFusion does check a box for the board. > > The best place to continue this discussion is bo...@apache.org > > Best, > Dave > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Dec 15, 2023, at 8:02 AM, Andrew Lamb wrote: > > > > Thank you Julian. This is very helpful. I will review the archives. > > > > Andrew > > > >> On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 10:55 AM Julian Hyde > wrote: > >> > >> I believe the process is for the Board to create a new PMC whose IP and > >> PMC members are an exact copy of the parent PMC. (Like the Unix “fork” > >> function.) And then both PMCs delete the stuff, and PMC members, they no > >> longer need. > >> > >> Arrow itself was created via this process (from Drill). You could search > >> the archives for the board resolution that created Arrow. The Incubator > is > >> not involved in the process. (Except in some minor ways, such as a name > >> search.) > >> > >> Julian > >> > On Dec 15, 2023, at 7:09 AM, Andrew Lamb > wrote: > >>> > >>> I apologize if this is not the right list on which to ask this > question. > >>> > >>> Can someone point to information about the procedure to propose > >>> “graduating” an *existing* sub project to a new top level project? > >>> > >>> Specifically, we are working on a proposal to graduate the “Apache > Arrow > >>> DataFusion”[1] sub project to its own Top Level Project. The > DataFusion > >>> project has sort of been “incubating” within the Arrow top level > project > >>> for several years and has grown to the point where it can both stand on > >> its > >>> own as well as benefit from more focused community[2]. > >>> > >>> I searched the archives of this list [3] and did not find anything that > >>> seemed relevant. > >>> > >>> I did find, farther back in history, that the Mahout, Avro and HBase > >>> projects appear to have previously “graduated” from sub projects of > >> Hadoop > >>> to their own top level projects but could not determine how they did > so. > >>> > >>> Thank you for any guidance you may be able to provide, > >>> > >>> Andrew > >>> > >>> [1] https://arrow.apache.org/datafusion/ > >>> > >>> [2] https://github.com/apache/arrow-datafusion/discussions/6475 > >>> > >>> [3] https://lists.apache.org/list.html?general@incubator.apache.org > >>> [4] > >>> > >> > https://news.apache.org/foundation/entry/the_apache_software_foundation_announces4 > >> > >> - > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >> > >> >
Re: [DISCUSS] Procedure for graduating an existing sub project to new top level project
You could also look into how Solr was spun out of Lucene. It would be up to your PMC whether to make the new PMC identical or not. Doing a podling name search on DataFusion does check a box for the board. The best place to continue this discussion is bo...@apache.org Best, Dave Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 15, 2023, at 8:02 AM, Andrew Lamb wrote: > > Thank you Julian. This is very helpful. I will review the archives. > > Andrew > >> On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 10:55 AM Julian Hyde wrote: >> >> I believe the process is for the Board to create a new PMC whose IP and >> PMC members are an exact copy of the parent PMC. (Like the Unix “fork” >> function.) And then both PMCs delete the stuff, and PMC members, they no >> longer need. >> >> Arrow itself was created via this process (from Drill). You could search >> the archives for the board resolution that created Arrow. The Incubator is >> not involved in the process. (Except in some minor ways, such as a name >> search.) >> >> Julian >> On Dec 15, 2023, at 7:09 AM, Andrew Lamb wrote: >>> >>> I apologize if this is not the right list on which to ask this question. >>> >>> Can someone point to information about the procedure to propose >>> “graduating” an *existing* sub project to a new top level project? >>> >>> Specifically, we are working on a proposal to graduate the “Apache Arrow >>> DataFusion”[1] sub project to its own Top Level Project. The DataFusion >>> project has sort of been “incubating” within the Arrow top level project >>> for several years and has grown to the point where it can both stand on >> its >>> own as well as benefit from more focused community[2]. >>> >>> I searched the archives of this list [3] and did not find anything that >>> seemed relevant. >>> >>> I did find, farther back in history, that the Mahout, Avro and HBase >>> projects appear to have previously “graduated” from sub projects of >> Hadoop >>> to their own top level projects but could not determine how they did so. >>> >>> Thank you for any guidance you may be able to provide, >>> >>> Andrew >>> >>> [1] https://arrow.apache.org/datafusion/ >>> >>> [2] https://github.com/apache/arrow-datafusion/discussions/6475 >>> >>> [3] https://lists.apache.org/list.html?general@incubator.apache.org >>> [4] >>> >> https://news.apache.org/foundation/entry/the_apache_software_foundation_announces4 >> >> - >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org >> >>
Re: [DISCUSS] OneTable proposal
Hi All, +1 to JB's points. Thanks Jesus for steering this discussion. I wholeheartedly support XTable. The potential of this initiative is immense, especially considering feedback from storage formats users and the benchmark we've been developing. I'm eagerly looking forward to collaborating with all who have committed to this project, as well as those in the pipeline and keeping an eye on our progress. I appreciate everyone's support and valuable feedback. Best, Ashvin On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 1:24 AM Jean-Baptiste Onofré wrote: > Hi, > > I think that's also the purpose of the incubation to grow the > community, both users community but also dev communities. > So, I don't see a blocker for incubation but more for graduation. > > I would start with the initial committer list with the target to grow > during incubation, including people from other projects (Iceberg, > Hudi, Paimon, ...). > > Regards > JB > > On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 5:06 AM Jesus Camacho Rodriguez > wrote: > > > > Carl, thanks for chiming in. > > > > Certainly, let me address that part. > > > > Concerning the initial list of committers: While the project originated > > from Onehouse (a company whose offering is powered by Apache Hudi), it's > > important to highlight that there has been an effort to have an initial > > list of committers that work for a diverse range of companies invested in > > different table formats, including Onehouse (4 committers), Microsoft > (2), > > Google (1), Walmart (1), Adobe (1), Cloudera (1), and Dremio (1). I > believe > > this diversity dispels the notion of a lack of representation or an > > outsized influence from a single group in the community. > > > > Regarding outreach to other communities: As part of the incubation > > proposal, we extended invitations to participate in this discussion and > > contribute to the project to members of the communities of the most > popular > > OSS table formats [1][2][3][4]. Responses generally fell into four > > categories (including some private responses): (1) Positive reception, > > interest in the proposal/vision, and/or thinking about engaging once/if > the > > project is in the ASF. (2) Technical/feasibility questions, which we > > encouraged them to ask on Github since that is our current communication > > platform in the XTable project. (3) No response received. (4) > Disagreement, > > we should all adopt specific format z. It's important to acknowledge the > > diversity in these communities and recognize that interest on XTable / > > opinions on XTable's viability vary. > > > > Some additional thoughts: I believe everyone involved in XTable is > > genuinely working towards making the right decisions for the project and > > they are demonstrating good faith, e.g., hopefully evident in the prompt > > response to the project's name change when concerns were raised. The goal > > is to create a vendor-neutral project with a thriving, inclusive > community. > > In my view, given the current list of initial committers, there is no > lack > > of diversity, and including other committers from table format > communities > > does not address the remaining concern about the project, which stems > from > > the fact that it actually originated in a company backing one of the > table > > format projects, i.e., Apache Hudi. > > Instead, I'd argue it's more important to focus on establishing XTable as > > an independent project governed by ASF's meritocracy principles. That > will > > naturally serve as an invitation for individuals to contribute, become > > committers, PPMC/PMC members, etc. While we are still in the very early > > stages of that journey, I believe that focusing on these principles and > > building the XTable community around them is ultimately the way to > mitigate > > the remaining concern. > > > > Thanks, > > Jesús > > > > > > [1] Apache Paimon (incubating): > > https://lists.apache.org/thread/t29ghx79cp2rlw20s9p0b8o86c5lzgk7 > > [2] Apache Iceberg: > > https://lists.apache.org/thread/lwlrscyklkxqmp28pbxpxko9r1vw4s4z > > [3] Apache Hudi: > > https://lists.apache.org/thread/3415j1lyp8nkgdv8sk378y8hvvmrt248 > > [4] Delta Lake: https://groups.google.com/g/delta-users/c/8btY3qHydwE > > > > > > On Wed, Dec 13, 2023 at 3:04 PM Carl Steinbach > > wrote: > > > > > Hi Jesús, > > > > > > This is a great project, and I am eager to see it added to the > incubator. > > > > > > It's great to see that the naming issue is being addressed, but could > you > > > also respond to the other concern Jacques raised about the need to > broaden > > > the list of initial committers to include members of the Iceberg and > Delta > > > communities? > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > - Carl > > > > > > On Mon, Dec 11, 2023 at 5:08 PM Jesus Camacho Rodriguez < > > > jcama...@apache.org> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Thanks to everyone who expressed support and offered help. It's > great to > > > > see that the project's mission resonates with so many different > people. > > > > > > > >
Re: [DISCUSS] Procedure for graduating an existing sub project to new top level project
Thank you Julian. This is very helpful. I will review the archives. Andrew On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 10:55 AM Julian Hyde wrote: > I believe the process is for the Board to create a new PMC whose IP and > PMC members are an exact copy of the parent PMC. (Like the Unix “fork” > function.) And then both PMCs delete the stuff, and PMC members, they no > longer need. > > Arrow itself was created via this process (from Drill). You could search > the archives for the board resolution that created Arrow. The Incubator is > not involved in the process. (Except in some minor ways, such as a name > search.) > > Julian > > > On Dec 15, 2023, at 7:09 AM, Andrew Lamb wrote: > > > > I apologize if this is not the right list on which to ask this question. > > > > Can someone point to information about the procedure to propose > > “graduating” an *existing* sub project to a new top level project? > > > > Specifically, we are working on a proposal to graduate the “Apache Arrow > > DataFusion”[1] sub project to its own Top Level Project. The DataFusion > > project has sort of been “incubating” within the Arrow top level project > > for several years and has grown to the point where it can both stand on > its > > own as well as benefit from more focused community[2]. > > > > I searched the archives of this list [3] and did not find anything that > > seemed relevant. > > > > I did find, farther back in history, that the Mahout, Avro and HBase > > projects appear to have previously “graduated” from sub projects of > Hadoop > > to their own top level projects but could not determine how they did so. > > > > Thank you for any guidance you may be able to provide, > > > > Andrew > > > > [1] https://arrow.apache.org/datafusion/ > > > > [2] https://github.com/apache/arrow-datafusion/discussions/6475 > > > > [3] https://lists.apache.org/list.html?general@incubator.apache.org > > [4] > > > https://news.apache.org/foundation/entry/the_apache_software_foundation_announces4 > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >
Re: [DISCUSS] Procedure for graduating an existing sub project to new top level project
I believe the process is for the Board to create a new PMC whose IP and PMC members are an exact copy of the parent PMC. (Like the Unix “fork” function.) And then both PMCs delete the stuff, and PMC members, they no longer need. Arrow itself was created via this process (from Drill). You could search the archives for the board resolution that created Arrow. The Incubator is not involved in the process. (Except in some minor ways, such as a name search.) Julian > On Dec 15, 2023, at 7:09 AM, Andrew Lamb wrote: > > I apologize if this is not the right list on which to ask this question. > > Can someone point to information about the procedure to propose > “graduating” an *existing* sub project to a new top level project? > > Specifically, we are working on a proposal to graduate the “Apache Arrow > DataFusion”[1] sub project to its own Top Level Project. The DataFusion > project has sort of been “incubating” within the Arrow top level project > for several years and has grown to the point where it can both stand on its > own as well as benefit from more focused community[2]. > > I searched the archives of this list [3] and did not find anything that > seemed relevant. > > I did find, farther back in history, that the Mahout, Avro and HBase > projects appear to have previously “graduated” from sub projects of Hadoop > to their own top level projects but could not determine how they did so. > > Thank you for any guidance you may be able to provide, > > Andrew > > [1] https://arrow.apache.org/datafusion/ > > [2] https://github.com/apache/arrow-datafusion/discussions/6475 > > [3] https://lists.apache.org/list.html?general@incubator.apache.org > [4] > https://news.apache.org/foundation/entry/the_apache_software_foundation_announces4 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
[RESULT][VOTE] Accept Fury Into the ASF Incubator
Hi, Within 7 days of voting, we have received 14 +1 binding and 6 +1 no-binding, the vote passed. Welcome Fury to the ASF incubator. The vote details are as follows Binding votes(+13): - tison - Xin Wang - PJ Fanning - Greg Stein - Yu Li - Furkan KAMACI - Dave Fisher - zhongyi tan - Ayush Saxena - Felix Cheung - Yu Xiao - li gang - Jean-Baptiste Onofré - Kent Yao Non-binding votes(+1): - Enrico Olivelli - Shawn Yang - Huajie Wang - Eason Chen - Jun Liu - Goson zhang Best, tison. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Accept Fury Into the ASF Incubator
+1 (binding) Best, tison. Goson zhang 于2023年12月15日周五 17:11写道： > > +1 (non binding) > > Good luck! > > Jun Liu 于2023年12月14日周四 22:25写道： > > > +1 non-binding > > > > Regards, > > Jun Liu > > > > > > > > > On Dec 8, 2023, at 7:04 PM, tison wrote: > > > > > > Hi Incubator > > > > > > Following the discussion [DISCUSS] Incubating Proposal of Fury [1], I > > > am starting this official vote for the Fury project. > > > > > > Here is their proposal: > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/Fury+Proposal > > > > > > Please cast your vote: > > > > > > [ ] +1, bring into the Incubator > > > [ ] +0, I don't care either way > > > [ ] -1, do not bring Fury into the Incubator, because... > > > > > > The vote will open for one week from today, Dec. 8th, 2023 > > > > > > Best, > > > tison. > > > > > > [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/jr3qwzxg2m6507zsll5fs8mopcco3ny3 > > > > > > - > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > > > > > > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
[DISCUSS] Procedure for graduating an existing sub project to new top level project
I apologize if this is not the right list on which to ask this question. Can someone point to information about the procedure to propose “graduating” an *existing* sub project to a new top level project? Specifically, we are working on a proposal to graduate the “Apache Arrow DataFusion”[1] sub project to its own Top Level Project. The DataFusion project has sort of been “incubating” within the Arrow top level project for several years and has grown to the point where it can both stand on its own as well as benefit from more focused community[2]. I searched the archives of this list [3] and did not find anything that seemed relevant. I did find, farther back in history, that the Mahout, Avro and HBase projects appear to have previously “graduated” from sub projects of Hadoop to their own top level projects but could not determine how they did so. Thank you for any guidance you may be able to provide, Andrew [1] https://arrow.apache.org/datafusion/ [2] https://github.com/apache/arrow-datafusion/discussions/6475 [3] https://lists.apache.org/list.html?general@incubator.apache.org [4] https://news.apache.org/foundation/entry/the_apache_software_foundation_announces4
Re: [DISCUSS] OneTable proposal
Hi, I think that's also the purpose of the incubation to grow the community, both users community but also dev communities. So, I don't see a blocker for incubation but more for graduation. I would start with the initial committer list with the target to grow during incubation, including people from other projects (Iceberg, Hudi, Paimon, ...). Regards JB On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 5:06 AM Jesus Camacho Rodriguez wrote: > > Carl, thanks for chiming in. > > Certainly, let me address that part. > > Concerning the initial list of committers: While the project originated > from Onehouse (a company whose offering is powered by Apache Hudi), it's > important to highlight that there has been an effort to have an initial > list of committers that work for a diverse range of companies invested in > different table formats, including Onehouse (4 committers), Microsoft (2), > Google (1), Walmart (1), Adobe (1), Cloudera (1), and Dremio (1). I believe > this diversity dispels the notion of a lack of representation or an > outsized influence from a single group in the community. > > Regarding outreach to other communities: As part of the incubation > proposal, we extended invitations to participate in this discussion and > contribute to the project to members of the communities of the most popular > OSS table formats [1][2][3][4]. Responses generally fell into four > categories (including some private responses): (1) Positive reception, > interest in the proposal/vision, and/or thinking about engaging once/if the > project is in the ASF. (2) Technical/feasibility questions, which we > encouraged them to ask on Github since that is our current communication > platform in the XTable project. (3) No response received. (4) Disagreement, > we should all adopt specific format z. It's important to acknowledge the > diversity in these communities and recognize that interest on XTable / > opinions on XTable's viability vary. > > Some additional thoughts: I believe everyone involved in XTable is > genuinely working towards making the right decisions for the project and > they are demonstrating good faith, e.g., hopefully evident in the prompt > response to the project's name change when concerns were raised. The goal > is to create a vendor-neutral project with a thriving, inclusive community. > In my view, given the current list of initial committers, there is no lack > of diversity, and including other committers from table format communities > does not address the remaining concern about the project, which stems from > the fact that it actually originated in a company backing one of the table > format projects, i.e., Apache Hudi. > Instead, I'd argue it's more important to focus on establishing XTable as > an independent project governed by ASF's meritocracy principles. That will > naturally serve as an invitation for individuals to contribute, become > committers, PPMC/PMC members, etc. While we are still in the very early > stages of that journey, I believe that focusing on these principles and > building the XTable community around them is ultimately the way to mitigate > the remaining concern. > > Thanks, > Jesús > > > [1] Apache Paimon (incubating): > https://lists.apache.org/thread/t29ghx79cp2rlw20s9p0b8o86c5lzgk7 > [2] Apache Iceberg: > https://lists.apache.org/thread/lwlrscyklkxqmp28pbxpxko9r1vw4s4z > [3] Apache Hudi: > https://lists.apache.org/thread/3415j1lyp8nkgdv8sk378y8hvvmrt248 > [4] Delta Lake: https://groups.google.com/g/delta-users/c/8btY3qHydwE > > > On Wed, Dec 13, 2023 at 3:04 PM Carl Steinbach > wrote: > > > Hi Jesús, > > > > This is a great project, and I am eager to see it added to the incubator. > > > > It's great to see that the naming issue is being addressed, but could you > > also respond to the other concern Jacques raised about the need to broaden > > the list of initial committers to include members of the Iceberg and Delta > > communities? > > > > Thanks. > > > > - Carl > > > > On Mon, Dec 11, 2023 at 5:08 PM Jesus Camacho Rodriguez < > > jcama...@apache.org> > > wrote: > > > > > Thanks to everyone who expressed support and offered help. It's great to > > > see that the project's mission resonates with so many different people. > > > > > > Jacques, we acknowledge your concern about the project name. We are > > working > > > on selecting a new name for ASF incubation that avoids confusion with any > > > specific corporation or product in the space. Currently we are doing some > > > due diligence to minimize the risk of having to change it again during > > > incubation; we'll update the proposal with the new name soon and share it > > > in this thread. > > > > > > Regarding the name-changing process and your concerns about it, we're > > > looking for advice based on past experiences. Specifically, we're > > > considering whether it's better to change the project's name before > > pushing > > > the code to the ASF, or if it's more practical to push the code to the > > ASF > > > repository first
Re: [VOTE] Accept Fury Into the ASF Incubator
+1 (non binding) Good luck! Jun Liu 于2023年12月14日周四 22:25写道： > +1 non-binding > > Regards, > Jun Liu > > > > > On Dec 8, 2023, at 7:04 PM, tison wrote: > > > > Hi Incubator > > > > Following the discussion [DISCUSS] Incubating Proposal of Fury [1], I > > am starting this official vote for the Fury project. > > > > Here is their proposal: > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/Fury+Proposal > > > > Please cast your vote: > > > > [ ] +1, bring into the Incubator > > [ ] +0, I don't care either way > > [ ] -1, do not bring Fury into the Incubator, because... > > > > The vote will open for one week from today, Dec. 8th, 2023 > > > > Best, > > tison. > > > > [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/jr3qwzxg2m6507zsll5fs8mopcco3ny3 > > > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >
