RE: [VOTE] Policy for incubating project resources (was Re: xmlbeans project )
From: Ted Leung [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 9:10 AM You do realize that I'm neither a member of the Incubator PMC nor do I support its existence. Create the mail list. The name shouldn't be up to the Incubator, it should be up to the XML PMC. Its you're baby, you're birthing it. Right now you're forced to do it here. I already asked infrastructure@ for this. I'm clearing my stack tonight on infrastructure requests. Sander - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Policy for incubating project resources (was Re: xmlbeans project )
On 7/30/2003 4:59 AM, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: Ted Leung wrote, On 30/07/2003 12.15: And can we get it on the website, please? Well, I would personally say no to having the grant itself there. Donations to the ASF should at least come through members IMHO and having the document there enforces it. I'll just add a note pointing to that location, unless others have different opinions. I don't care as long as the people who need it know which version to use. As far as it being members only, we don't have to accept a grant just because someone sends us one. A note pointing to the right file in the foundation CVS would be a huge improvement. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Policy for incubating project resources (was Re: xmlbeans project )
Steven Noels wrote, On 29/07/2003 18.50: On 29/07/2003 10:41 Berin Lautenbach wrote: Steven Noels wrote: and see to bring XMLBeans where people can actually help them out. Apart from Nicola's apparent efforts in keeping the Incubator alive, most of the real action is done by infrastructure peeps, and the dispersed shepherds of incubating projects, most of them assumably under the umbrella of the XML/Jakarta PMC. Let's keep it that way, and keep the incubating projects close to an active PMC. But being careful not to throw the baby out with the bath water. I would have said there is real value in the Incubator defining and fleshing out a process that is used by the various PMCs for incubation. Totally agree with that, of course, although I find this hard to find back in what Nicola has been up to this far (sorry to say so). Hey, I'm the Incubator! 1-to-1 mapping! ;-P I'm willing to help out since I firmly believe in the need for a good acceptance/incubation process and tangible help for fledgling new Apache projects (and growth of new ASF projects is unavoidable, necessary, even healthy IMHO) - OTOH I feel a certain tendency towards overregulation and protectionism which I don't find inspiring. Overregulation? Please be specific. ... After spending considerable time off-list with Cliff preparing his proposal, I'm getting a bit weary with all this rules stuff ASF is incorporated. We have certain rules to abide to, like licensing et all. And also internal rules, that you know quite well, about voting, and about infrastructure policies. Which rules make you so tired? I just blocked the creation of some resources for less than a week, and you are already tired? It takes years to build good communities, and patience is a virtue. I don't honestly think that some days will ruin it all. Suggestion: why don't we get to know the XMLBeans guys better? What about if each of them sends us a mail with a brief bio and expectations? -- Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] - verba volant, scripta manent - (discussions get forgotten, just code remains) - - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Policy for incubating project resources (was Re: xmlbeans project )
I've no issue with rules, except when we say we have rules but can't articulate them. Example #1. What should the names of the mailing lists and CVS be? [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] We don't have that rule. Nicola Ken suggested creating such a rule. My opinion is that we will continue to meander around until someone who gives a rat's ass about some new project volunteers to set up the incubation process. Right now, nobody even wants to chair the PMC because anyone who attempts to lead is shot down and everyone who wants to create a new project is unwilling to work on documenting its progress. In other words, there are insufficient volunteers to accept any new projects at Apache right now. Please come back at a later date, or volunteer to do the work and I'll give you cvs access. I am here representing the XML PMC. I've been *waiting* for the incubator PMC to make up its mind on how to name projects, and now I am *waiting* for infrastructure to create some resources (and yes, I know they are busy with minotaur, and I am cutting them some slack). I'm not willing to cut the high and mighty incubator PMC some slack for rules and policy that should have been in place for a year and the failure to document such.. It's fine for us to come out with the high and mighty Apache way, but when we don't have basic stuff like this in order it makes us look bad. As a n ASF member, member of 2 PMCs, and former PMC chair, I find this to be an embarassment. If the incubator is incapable of doing its job then maybe an ASF member needs to introduce a resolution calling for its dissolution. None of those are the job of the incubator PMC. They are all decisions that anyone with commit access can make, or at least document to the point where other people start complaining (at which point a decision might need to be made, but more likely will just be resolved on this list by the people working on incubation). There is nothing high and mighty about the PMC -- it doesn't even decide what gets incubated. Do you want me to be chair of incubator? At least then you won't have to worry about indecisiveness. Roy - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Policy for incubating project resources (was Re: xmlbeans project )
On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 14:14:04 +0200 Sander Striker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [ ] project-subproject CVS [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm 0 on both suggestions. Go with this one for now*. And lets not delay kicking off a project for this for too long. applause!! Is someone already preparing account requests, mailinglist requests, cvs module requests etc, for the Infrastructure team to handle? I am not a committer of the xmlbeans project, however, I am willing to volunteer the remote moderation of mailing lists. (please devote all of your energy to what you can do! xmlbeans folks) Okay? Sincerely, -- Tetsuya ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Policy for incubating project resources (was Re: xmlbeans project )
On 25/07/2003, at 02:05, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: On 7/25/03 7:46 AM, Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's simple: The Incubator PMC is responsible for the project. All others (can) help. No this is difference than in the past. Remember the Incubator is here to help and its OUR responsibility to incubate? Its sounding like the incubator stands over and tells folks what to do not only in helpful ways but in details too. There is no difference at all. The Incubator is like every other project: PMC = oversight and responsibility (long term direction) Contributors/Comitterhship = help, day-to-day work and ideas ;-) Cheers, Erik - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [VOTE] Policy for incubating project resources (was Re: xmlbeans project )
From: Erik Abele [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 3:18 PM [...] Okay, I'm fine with this for now, but without an explicitly stated policy this discussion will come up every time a project arrives at the incubator. We definitely need a policy here, IMHO! I agree. I just didn't want it to be the bottleneck. Is someone already preparing account requests, mailinglist requests, cvs module requests etc, for the Infrastructure team to handle? Ted already requested the creation of the relevant mailing lists and CVS modules and exactly this request brought up this discussion another time :) see below... Ah, dear root and all ;). It may be wise to reissue the request, this time to infrastructure@, with the appropiate CC's, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], as before. There's only a handful of roots, and only a subset of those have a black belt in ezmlm-fu. infrastructure@ reaches a slightly wider audience improving the chances of swift handling of the request. Sander - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Policy for incubating project resources (was Re: xmlbeans project )
Aaron Bannert [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Thursday, July 24, 2003, at 07:23 AM, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: IMHO it depends on what the incubator PMC does. If they *do* create the lists and the such then maybe they should set policy (meaning telling other people what do do == policy). If they rely on the XML project and the XMLBeans folks to do things then they should allow the XML project and XMLBeans folks to set their own policy. I agree. If a new project already has a prospective home, and that PMC wants the mailing lists and CVS in their namespace, then go for it. If a project has no prospective home, or the hopeful home's PMC isn't totally on board yet, then they can always have @incubator. I agree. -Fitz, who wants it on the record that he's agreeing with Andy. :-) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Policy for incubating project resources (was Re: xmlbeans project )
On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 23:27:13 +0900 Tetsuya Kitahata [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip/ e.g. The XXX pmc has agreed to accept the YYY project for incubation. To aid in the process, Please create these below: [1] Mailing List (i) addresses I. [EMAIL PROTECTED] II. [EMAIL PROTECTED] III. [EMAIL PROTECTED] (ii) remote moderator .(e.g. [EMAIL PROTECTED]) (iii) archive mbox I. http://xml.apache.org/mail/xmlbeans/dev/MM.gz II.http://xml.apache.org/mail/xmlbeans/user/MM.gz III. http://xml.apache.org/mail/xmlbeans/cvs/MM.gz (iv) option I. Reply-To: Header [X] yes [ ] no II. Prefix in Subject [ ] yes [X] no III. eyebrowse [X] yes [ ] no IV. Message Trailer[X] yes [ ] no =(CUT HERE)== - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Apache XMLBeans -- URL: http://xml.apache.org/xmlbeans/ =(END)=== [2] CVS Module name: xml-xmlbeans [3] Initial list members [EMAIL PROTECTED] (list up all the committers and mentoring members now) ... ... [4] Bugzilla ... Rather, The xml pmc has agreed to accept the xmlbeans project for incubation. To aid in the process, Please create these below: [1] Mailing List (i) addresses I. [EMAIL PROTECTED] II. [EMAIL PROTECTED] III. [EMAIL PROTECTED] (ii) remote moderators .(e.g. [EMAIL PROTECTED]) (iii) archives mbox I. http://xml.apache.org/mail/xmlbeans/dev/MM.gz II.http://xml.apache.org/mail/xmlbeans/user/MM.gz III. http://xml.apache.org/mail/xmlbeans/cvs/MM.gz (iv) options I. Reply-To: Header [X] yes [ ] no NOTE: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - [EMAIL PROTECTED] II. Prefix in Subject [ ] yes [X] no III. Eyebrowse [X] yes [ ] no IV. Moderation Message [X] short [ ] long V. Message Trailer[X] yes [ ] no (a). [EMAIL PROTECTED] =(CUT HERE)== - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Apache XMLBeans Project -- URL: http://xml.apache.org/xmlbeans/ =(END)=== (b). [EMAIL PROTECTED] =(CUT HERE)== - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Apache XMLBeans Project -- URL: http://xml.apache.org/xmlbeans/ =(END)=== (c). [EMAIL PROTECTED] =(CUT HERE)== - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] =(END)=== [2] CVS Module /home/cvs/xml-xmlbeans/ /home/cvspublic/xml-xmlbeans/ [3] Initial list members [EMAIL PROTECTED] (list up all the committers and mentoring members now) ... ... [4] Bugzilla URL: http://nagoya.apache.org/bugzilla/buglist.cgi?product=xmlbeans [5] Other Mail Archives 1) Mail-Archive http://www.mail-archive.com/ 2) Geocrawler http://geocrawler.com/ 3) Mailing list Archives http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/ (Do it by ourselves) (This is a sample :-) Sincerely, -- Tetsuya ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
