Re: Poddlings length of time in the incubator

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 1:42 PM Pierre Smits  wrote:
> ...Re: at least 5 active PPMC Members
> As we learned from the Trafodion graduation, it was (is?) also required
> that (some of) the ASF Members mentoring the project were going to be part
> of the PMC after graduation...

Yes, this is not a formal requirement but the Incubator PMC and Board
have been looking at that in project graduations for quite some time,
and sometimes asking mentors to stay onboard the new PMCs if they can
manage to.

A few Foundation resources are only available to Members, and the
mechanism to elect new Members requires one to notice the candidates,
both things are made easier if there are Members on a PMC.

-Bertrand

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Re: Poddlings length of time in the incubator

[Pierre Smits]

I agree with Bertrand on that a - projected - viability of having a
fruitful lifespan under the umbrella of the ASF is key. And that IMO is
much driven by popularity of the code as it must fill a certain level of
need to adopt, and the desire of those participating in  the - incubating -
project to keep the works attractive AND grow the community. If either
declines that viability to survive as an ASF project decreases drastically.

Re: at least 5 active PPMC Members
As we learned from the Trafodion graduation, it was (is?) also required
that (some of) the ASF Members mentoring the project were going to be part
of the PMC after graduation.

Best regards,

Pierre Smits

Apache Trafodion , Vice President
Apache Directory , PMC Member
Apache Incubator , committer
*Apache OFBiz , contributor (without privileges)
since 2008*
Apache Steve , committer

On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 11:57 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz <
bdelacre...@codeconsult.ch> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Mon, Sep 3, 2018 at 11:23 PM Gunnar Tapper 
> wrote:
> > ...Stated in a different way: if there's little interest in a project's
> > technology but it does everything it can to attract contributors, then is
> > popularity a measure of whether a project is ready for graduation?...
>
> I think it's fine for small projects to graduate, as long as they
> appear to be viable.
>
> IMO having at least 5 active PMC members on graduating projects is a
> reasonable way to ensure their viability.
>
> I don't think popularity should ever be a factor - viability is.
>
> -Bertrand
>
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>
>

Re: Poddlings length of time in the incubator

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Mon, Sep 3, 2018 at 11:23 PM Gunnar Tapper  wrote:
> ...Stated in a different way: if there's little interest in a project's
> technology but it does everything it can to attract contributors, then is
> popularity a measure of whether a project is ready for graduation?...

I think it's fine for small projects to graduate, as long as they
appear to be viable.

IMO having at least 5 active PMC members on graduating projects is a
reasonable way to ensure their viability.

I don't think popularity should ever be a factor - viability is.

-Bertrand

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Re: Poddlings length of time in the incubator

[Justin Mclean]

Hi,

> IMO While it may not always get a realistic answer (wishful thinking could 
> apply as you say), asking the question should make the podling think about 
> what is involved and start to make a plan on how to graduate. It will also 
> pick up any policing or have unrealistic expectation about the incubating 
> process.

Sorry “any podlings that have unrealistic expectations" I mean.

Justin
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Re: Poddlings length of time in the incubator

[Justin Mclean]

Hi,

> I believe this kind of questioning will lead nowhere. Before a proposal for
> incubation is being accepted any statement made regarding this will be like
> wishful thinking or (explicitly) vague,

IMO While it may not always get a realistic answer (wishful thinking could 
apply as you say), asking the question should make the podling think about what 
is involved and start to make a plan on how to graduate. It will also pick up 
any policing or have unrealistic expectation about the incubating process.

Thanks,
Justin
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Re: Poddlings length of time in the incubator

[Gunnar Tapper]

Hi,

What's the main cause of a lengthy incubation period? Possibilities:


   1. Not understanding the Apache processes? This is teachable in most
   cases. Shouldn't take two years in most cases, especially if mentors guide
   the project through the release process.
   2. Contributors joining the project? Perhaps a bit of a "fashion issue"
   where people join the perceived cool projects. The hardest part here is to
   ensure independence from a single company.

Gut feel, I suspect that #2 is a lot harder than #1. It'd be interesting to
analyze contribution growth for the project that sit/sat in incubation for
a long time and then ask whether contribution growth is possible and
whether it's the only obstacle to graduation.

Stated in a different way: if there's little interest in a project's
technology but it does everything it can to attract contributors, then is
popularity a measure of whether a project is ready for graduation?

Thanks,

Gunnar

   1. Something else?


On Mon, Sep 3, 2018 at 8:18 AM Pierre Smits  wrote:

> I believe this kind of questioning will lead nowhere. Before a proposal for
> incubation is being accepted any statement made regarding this will be like
> wishful thinking or (explicitly) vague,  and after acceptance the reports
> will be more indicative about progress (and therefore making a given
> initial indication null and void) of community growth and adherence to ASF
> guidelines, policies and standards.
>
>
>
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> ORRTIZ.COM 
> OFBiz based solutions & services
>
> OEM - The OFBiz Extensions Marketplace1
> http://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2/
> 1 not affiliated to (and not endorsed by) the OFBiz project
>
> On Sat, Sep 1, 2018 at 12:30 AM, Justin Mclean 
> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > > FWIW, for the DLab proposal [1], we added a voluntary incubation period
> > max of 2 years, essentially saying we didn’t want to become a resource
> > drain. I haven’t checked to see if any other projects have done this.
> >
> > Nice idea. I think we shovel add to the template “How long do you think
> > you'll spend in incubation” to the proposal template - what do others
> > think? At least they sets some expectations even if it’s not binding.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Justin
>


-- 
Thanks,

Gunnar
*If you think you can you can, if you think you can't you're right.*

Re: Poddlings length of time in the incubator

[Pierre Smits]

I believe this kind of questioning will lead nowhere. Before a proposal for
incubation is being accepted any statement made regarding this will be like
wishful thinking or (explicitly) vague,  and after acceptance the reports
will be more indicative about progress (and therefore making a given
initial indication null and void) of community growth and adherence to ASF
guidelines, policies and standards.




Pierre Smits

ORRTIZ.COM 
OFBiz based solutions & services

OEM - The OFBiz Extensions Marketplace1
http://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2/
1 not affiliated to (and not endorsed by) the OFBiz project

On Sat, Sep 1, 2018 at 12:30 AM, Justin Mclean 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> > FWIW, for the DLab proposal [1], we added a voluntary incubation period
> max of 2 years, essentially saying we didn’t want to become a resource
> drain. I haven’t checked to see if any other projects have done this.
>
> Nice idea. I think we shovel add to the template “How long do you think
> you'll spend in incubation” to the proposal template - what do others
> think? At least they sets some expectations even if it’s not binding.
>
> Thanks,
> Justin

Re: Poddlings length of time in the incubator

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 26, 2018, at 9:08 PM, Greg Stein  wrote:
> 
>> On Sun, Aug 26, 2018 at 8:22 PM Ted Dunning  wrote:
>> 
>>> On Sat, Aug 25, 2018 at 5:33 PM Dave Fisher  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi -
>>> 
>>> ...
 Possibly retirement?
 ODF toolkit (7 years in the incubator!)
>>> 
>>> I’ve discussed this some on the ODF toolkit dev list. Development was
>>> recently moved to Git. The Incubator needs to decide if we will turnover
>>> the domains that were donated in 2011 by IBM(?) to the only consistent
>>> developer. If that is true then we can quickly let them retire, but
>> survive
>>> on Github.
>>> 
>>> What do people think?
>>> 
>> 
>> Sounds like a perfect one person project. We should let them have any
>> non-Apache domains that they want.
>> 
> 
> We only own "odftoolkit.org" now. There used to be about a dozen (eg.
> domain squatting approach from the prior holders), and when they came up
> for renewal, I pushed back. The PPMC requested us to hold odftoolkit.org as
> the only one ever actually used. So, we dropped the others, saving $$ for
> the Foundation.
> 
> The IPMC is the "owner" of this domain (with some dotted-line to Brand),
> with Infra handling the mechanics. If the IPMC decides to retire
> odftoolkit, and IPMC/Brand wants to release the domain to a new caretaker,
> then a simple email (or Jira ticket) can make it happen. Easy stuff.

Thanks Greg.

I’m seeing one new person and one of the early developers decloak today. Let’s 
see if something is finally happening organically. If not in a week or two then 
we can start their egress.

Regards,
Dave

> 
> Cheers,
> Greg
> InfraAdmin, ASF


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Re: Poddlings length of time in the incubator

[P. Taylor Goetz]

I’d be a +1.

-Taylor

> On Aug 31, 2018, at 6:35 PM, Ted Dunning  wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 3:30 PM Justin Mclean 
> wrote:
> 
>> ...
>>> FWIW, for the DLab proposal [1], we added a voluntary incubation period
>> max of 2 years, essentially saying we didn’t want to become a resource
>> drain. I haven’t checked to see if any other projects have done this.
>> 
>> Nice idea. I think we shovel add to the template “How long do you think
>> you'll spend in incubation” to the proposal template - what do others
>> think? At least they sets some expectations even if it’s not binding.
>> 
> 
> I think that is a great suggestion.

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Re: Poddlings length of time in the incubator

[Chris Mattmann]

I’m game to help with Joshua for sure. I haven’t really been participating in 
Senssoft. 

But I know that community (originally from XDATA) and they want to do well. 

 

I think that the only thing next on Joshua is to post the resolution to 
graduate, which
I never got around to doing.

 

Thanks,

Chris

 

 

 

 

From: Justin Mclean 
Reply-To: "general@incubator.apache.org" 
Date: Friday, August 31, 2018 at 3:39 PM
To: "general@incubator.apache.org" 
Subject: Re: Poddlings length of time in the incubator

 

Hi,

 

Thanks Lewis for that. Lets see if we can get these two projects to graduate. 
If they need help with that (i.e. mentors are missing) please ask for help here.

 

Thanks,

Justin

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Re: Poddlings length of time in the incubator

[Justin Mclean]

Hi,

Thanks Lewis for that. Lets see if we can get these two projects to graduate. 
If they need help with that (i.e. mentors are missing) please ask for help here.

Thanks,
Justin
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Re: Poddlings length of time in the incubator

[Ted Dunning]

On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 3:30 PM Justin Mclean 
wrote:

> ...
> > FWIW, for the DLab proposal [1], we added a voluntary incubation period
> max of 2 years, essentially saying we didn’t want to become a resource
> drain. I haven’t checked to see if any other projects have done this.
>
> Nice idea. I think we shovel add to the template “How long do you think
> you'll spend in incubation” to the proposal template - what do others
> think? At least they sets some expectations even if it’s not binding.
>

I think that is a great suggestion.

Re: Poddlings length of time in the incubator

[Justin Mclean]

Hi,

> FWIW, for the DLab proposal [1], we added a voluntary incubation period max 
> of 2 years, essentially saying we didn’t want to become a resource drain. I 
> haven’t checked to see if any other projects have done this.

Nice idea. I think we shovel add to the template “How long do you think you'll 
spend in incubation” to the proposal template - what do others think? At least 
they sets some expectations even if it’s not binding.

Thanks,
Justin

Re: Poddlings length of time in the incubator

[Justin Mclean]

Hi,

> Basically, I'm +1 on every single point that Julian makes, but having
> said this I'm unsure as to where can we go from here.

IMO Ask the podlings in questing if they need help and how long they intends to 
stay in incubation / what are the issues stopping them from graduating. It may 
be that they require more time for community building but may be for other 
reasons.

Thanks,
Justin

Re: Poddlings length of time in the incubator

[Andy Seaborne]

On 26/08/18 00:43, Justin Mclean wrote:

Hi,

Below is a list of podlings that have been in the incubator for more than 2 
years. What can be done to encourage these projects along? Do they have missing 
mentors or need some other assistance?

While not all podlings graduate in 2 years and may move towards graduation at 
different rates, I’m not sure that the being in the incubator for longer than 2 
years achieves much.

Looking like they are soon to graduate:
Airflow
Singa
Unomi

Reasonably active:
Gearpump
S2Graph
Tamaya
Taverna
Tephra
Toree

Little or low activity:
BatchEE
Edgent
Joshua
Milagro
Myriad
ODF Toolkit
Pony Mail
Quickstep
Rya
Samoa
SensSoft

Possibly retirement?
ODF toolkit (7 years in the incubator!)

Retiring:
Gossip

There was some talk of BatchEE graduation ion their list but seems little 
activity. Could the mentors of that project follow up on that?

Edgent has had little activity since IBM staff have left and I'm not sure what 
can be done there.

Is there any reason that S2Graph, Taverna and Tephra are not closer to 
graduation?


Taverna has had a decent uptick on the technical side driven by a 
successful GSoC.  Energy from the PPMC is needed to make sure all code 
has been released, or at least passed licensing, (including moving other 
stuff out for now), then graduate.


Andy




Thanks,
Justin



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Re: Poddlings length of time in the incubator

[P. Taylor Goetz]

> On Aug 28, 2018, at 9:01 PM, Roman Shaposhnik  wrote:
> 
>> On Sun, Aug 26, 2018 at 1:40 PM, Julian Hyde  wrote:
>> Regarding Quickstep. I am a mentor. (One mentor resigned earlier this
>> year, but the other mentor, Roman, is sufficiently engaged.)
>> 
>> I am concerned that Quickstep is not going to graduate. They are
>> functioning well as an academic project, as evidenced by papers at top
>> conferences[1], but all of their contributors are from the same
>> university department. They have made a few efforts at community
>> building, but do not seem to be building a user base, or attracting
>> outside contributions.
>> 
>> (Note that traffic for July and August is lower than usual, due to
>> their contributors being in academia. Traffic on the dev list should
>> pick up somewhat in September.)
>> 
>> Embrace of Apache has been half-hearted. Note, for instance, that
>> their twitter account [2] still references their pre-Apache home page
>> [3] rather than their Apache page [4].
>> 
>> Quickstep made their first release in March 2017 but have not made
>> further releases. I am going encourage them to make a new release
>> soon. That will stimulate some community activity. But I am dubious
>> that this will attract outside contributors.
> 
> Basically, I'm +1 on every single point that Julian makes, but having
> said this I'm unsure as to where can we go from here.
> 
> In the past we typically shied away from setting deadlines for certain
> milestones in community development within podlings. This, in my view,
> somewhat encouraged this phenomenon of an "eternal podling" (active
> enough not to be in the attic, not active/ApacheWay'y enough to
> graduate). I feel like Quickstep, for example, can exist in this state
> indefinitely.

FWIW, for the DLab proposal [1], we added a voluntary incubation period max of 
2 years, essentially saying we didn’t want to become a resource drain. I 
haven’t checked to see if any other projects have done this.

I’m also not sure if that’s in any way binding, or what the mechanics of that 
would be. I imagine at the 2-year mark there would be a PPMC vote to either a) 
retire, or b) request additional time from the IPMC. If b, then the IPMC would 
either approve or deny the extension request.

> 
> 
> Thanks,
> Roman.

-Taylor

[1] https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/DLabProposal

> 
>> Julian
>> 
>> [1] http://www.vldb.org/pvldb/vol11/p663-patel.pdf
>> 
>> [2] https://twitter.com/ApacheQuickstep
>> 
>> [3] http://quickstep.cs.wisc.edu/
>> 
>> [4] http://quickstep.apache.org/
>>> On Sun, Aug 26, 2018 at 10:17 AM Mark Thomas  wrote:
>>> 
 On 26/08/18 02:30, Justin Mclean wrote:
 Hi,
 
> I’ve discussed this some on the ODF toolkit dev list. Development was 
> recently moved to Git. The Incubator needs to decide if we will turnover 
> the domains that were donated in 2011 by IBM(?) to the only consistent 
> developer. If that is true then we can quickly let them retire, but 
> survive on Github.
 
 I also saw you mentioned it in a previous incubator report for the 
 podling. What are the domain names in question? I think doing as you 
 suggested sounds like a good idea do you want to take that back to the 
 PPMC and discuss and/or vote on doing that.
 
 Any other IPMC members think differently?
>>> 
>>> The podling PMC can make a recommendation but the decision to release a
>>> domain name to a third party needs the approval of VP Brand Management.
>>> 
>>> We also need to find the transfer agreements (if any) for those domains
>>> to see what the ASF agreed to at the time of donation. It is not unheard
>>> of for such agreements to include a clause that ownership reverts to the
>>> donor if the podling does not graduate.
>>> 
>>> Mark
>>> 
>>> -
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>>> 
>> 
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Re: Poddlings length of time in the incubator

[Roman Shaposhnik]

On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 10:22 PM, Greg Stein  wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 8:01 PM Roman Shaposhnik 
> wrote:
>>...
>
>> In the past we typically shied away from setting deadlines for certain
>> milestones in community development within podlings. This, in my view,
>> somewhat encouraged this phenomenon of an "eternal podling" (active
>> enough not to be in the attic, not active/ApacheWay'y enough to
>> graduate). I feel like Quickstep, for example, can exist in this state
>> indefinitely.
>
>
> I think there is/can/should be a different bar for TLPs "idle-ness", and
> that of a podling. A TLP has confirmed itself for operation/oversight, even
> when it may slow down. A podling hasn't had that confirmation, however.
>
> One of the more continual issues within the Incubator is the amount of
> mentor energy to "go around". It seems that if a podling has hit a dead
> end, then it is best for the Incubator (as a whole) to go ahead and retire
> it, and apply its energies to podlings that are making progress towards
> graduation.

True, but the other argument is that the process is self-throttling: the slower
the podling gets, the less energy it requires from the mentor
(although, I suppose
there's a "fixed energy cost" in chasing reports, etc. below which it
will never go).

Thanks,
Roman.

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Re: Poddlings length of time in the incubator

[lewis john mcgibbney]

Hi Justin,
Response inline

On Sun, Aug 26, 2018 at 8:29 PM 
wrote:

> From: Justin Mclean 
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2018 09:43:36 +1000
> Subject: Poddlings length of time in the incubator
> Hi,
>
> Below is a list of podlings that have been in the incubator for more than
> 2 years. What can be done to encourage these projects along? Do they have
> missing mentors or need some other assistance?
>

W.r.t Joshua, the primary leader moved on to other things. We were also
discussing graduation not too long ago but again, similar to with SensSoft,
the mentorship didn't act in time and we are in the current status.
I think it is time to graduate Joshua as the software itself is very
healthy and I know there are folks using the project. I am going to make an
attempt to reboot the project and encourage graduation.
Lewis

Re: Poddlings length of time in the incubator

[Greg Stein]

On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 8:01 PM Roman Shaposhnik 
wrote:
>...

> In the past we typically shied away from setting deadlines for certain
> milestones in community development within podlings. This, in my view,
> somewhat encouraged this phenomenon of an "eternal podling" (active
> enough not to be in the attic, not active/ApacheWay'y enough to
> graduate). I feel like Quickstep, for example, can exist in this state
> indefinitely.


I think there is/can/should be a different bar for TLPs "idle-ness", and
that of a podling. A TLP has confirmed itself for operation/oversight, even
when it may slow down. A podling hasn't had that confirmation, however.

One of the more continual issues within the Incubator is the amount of
mentor energy to "go around". It seems that if a podling has hit a dead
end, then it is best for the Incubator (as a whole) to go ahead and retire
it, and apply its energies to podlings that are making progress towards
graduation.

Cheers,
-g

Re: Poddlings length of time in the incubator

[Roman Shaposhnik]

On Sun, Aug 26, 2018 at 1:40 PM, Julian Hyde  wrote:
> Regarding Quickstep. I am a mentor. (One mentor resigned earlier this
> year, but the other mentor, Roman, is sufficiently engaged.)
>
> I am concerned that Quickstep is not going to graduate. They are
> functioning well as an academic project, as evidenced by papers at top
> conferences[1], but all of their contributors are from the same
> university department. They have made a few efforts at community
> building, but do not seem to be building a user base, or attracting
> outside contributions.
>
> (Note that traffic for July and August is lower than usual, due to
> their contributors being in academia. Traffic on the dev list should
> pick up somewhat in September.)
>
> Embrace of Apache has been half-hearted. Note, for instance, that
> their twitter account [2] still references their pre-Apache home page
> [3] rather than their Apache page [4].
>
> Quickstep made their first release in March 2017 but have not made
> further releases. I am going encourage them to make a new release
> soon. That will stimulate some community activity. But I am dubious
> that this will attract outside contributors.

Basically, I'm +1 on every single point that Julian makes, but having
said this I'm unsure as to where can we go from here.

In the past we typically shied away from setting deadlines for certain
milestones in community development within podlings. This, in my view,
somewhat encouraged this phenomenon of an "eternal podling" (active
enough not to be in the attic, not active/ApacheWay'y enough to
graduate). I feel like Quickstep, for example, can exist in this state
indefinitely.


Thanks,
Roman.

> Julian
>
> [1] http://www.vldb.org/pvldb/vol11/p663-patel.pdf
>
> [2] https://twitter.com/ApacheQuickstep
>
> [3] http://quickstep.cs.wisc.edu/
>
> [4] http://quickstep.apache.org/
> On Sun, Aug 26, 2018 at 10:17 AM Mark Thomas  wrote:
>>
>> On 26/08/18 02:30, Justin Mclean wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> >> I’ve discussed this some on the ODF toolkit dev list. Development was 
>> >> recently moved to Git. The Incubator needs to decide if we will turnover 
>> >> the domains that were donated in 2011 by IBM(?) to the only consistent 
>> >> developer. If that is true then we can quickly let them retire, but 
>> >> survive on Github.
>> >
>> > I also saw you mentioned it in a previous incubator report for the 
>> > podling. What are the domain names in question? I think doing as you 
>> > suggested sounds like a good idea do you want to take that back to the 
>> > PPMC and discuss and/or vote on doing that.
>> >
>> > Any other IPMC members think differently?
>>
>> The podling PMC can make a recommendation but the decision to release a
>> domain name to a third party needs the approval of VP Brand Management.
>>
>> We also need to find the transfer agreements (if any) for those domains
>> to see what the ASF agreed to at the time of donation. It is not unheard
>> of for such agreements to include a clause that ownership reverts to the
>> donor if the podling does not graduate.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>>
>
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Re: Poddlings length of time in the incubator

[Greg Stein]

On Sun, Aug 26, 2018 at 8:22 PM Ted Dunning  wrote:

> On Sat, Aug 25, 2018 at 5:33 PM Dave Fisher  wrote:
>
> > Hi -
> >
> > ...
> > > Possibly retirement?
> > > ODF toolkit (7 years in the incubator!)
> >
> > I’ve discussed this some on the ODF toolkit dev list. Development was
> > recently moved to Git. The Incubator needs to decide if we will turnover
> > the domains that were donated in 2011 by IBM(?) to the only consistent
> > developer. If that is true then we can quickly let them retire, but
> survive
> > on Github.
> >
> > What do people think?
> >
>
> Sounds like a perfect one person project. We should let them have any
> non-Apache domains that they want.
>

We only own "odftoolkit.org" now. There used to be about a dozen (eg.
domain squatting approach from the prior holders), and when they came up
for renewal, I pushed back. The PPMC requested us to hold odftoolkit.org as
the only one ever actually used. So, we dropped the others, saving $$ for
the Foundation.

The IPMC is the "owner" of this domain (with some dotted-line to Brand),
with Infra handling the mechanics. If the IPMC decides to retire
odftoolkit, and IPMC/Brand wants to release the domain to a new caretaker,
then a simple email (or Jira ticket) can make it happen. Easy stuff.

Cheers,
Greg
InfraAdmin, ASF

Re: Poddlings length of time in the incubator

[Ted Dunning]

On Sat, Aug 25, 2018 at 5:33 PM Dave Fisher  wrote:

> Hi -
>
> ...
> > Possibly retirement?
> > ODF toolkit (7 years in the incubator!)
>
> I’ve discussed this some on the ODF toolkit dev list. Development was
> recently moved to Git. The Incubator needs to decide if we will turnover
> the domains that were donated in 2011 by IBM(?) to the only consistent
> developer. If that is true then we can quickly let them retire, but survive
> on Github.
>
> What do people think?
>

Sounds like a perfect one person project. We should let them have any
non-Apache domains that they want.

Re: Poddlings length of time in the incubator

[Julian Hyde]

Regarding Quickstep. I am a mentor. (One mentor resigned earlier this
year, but the other mentor, Roman, is sufficiently engaged.)

I am concerned that Quickstep is not going to graduate. They are
functioning well as an academic project, as evidenced by papers at top
conferences[1], but all of their contributors are from the same
university department. They have made a few efforts at community
building, but do not seem to be building a user base, or attracting
outside contributions.

(Note that traffic for July and August is lower than usual, due to
their contributors being in academia. Traffic on the dev list should
pick up somewhat in September.)

Embrace of Apache has been half-hearted. Note, for instance, that
their twitter account [2] still references their pre-Apache home page
[3] rather than their Apache page [4].

Quickstep made their first release in March 2017 but have not made
further releases. I am going encourage them to make a new release
soon. That will stimulate some community activity. But I am dubious
that this will attract outside contributors.

Julian

[1] http://www.vldb.org/pvldb/vol11/p663-patel.pdf

[2] https://twitter.com/ApacheQuickstep

[3] http://quickstep.cs.wisc.edu/

[4] http://quickstep.apache.org/
On Sun, Aug 26, 2018 at 10:17 AM Mark Thomas  wrote:
>
> On 26/08/18 02:30, Justin Mclean wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> >> I’ve discussed this some on the ODF toolkit dev list. Development was 
> >> recently moved to Git. The Incubator needs to decide if we will turnover 
> >> the domains that were donated in 2011 by IBM(?) to the only consistent 
> >> developer. If that is true then we can quickly let them retire, but 
> >> survive on Github.
> >
> > I also saw you mentioned it in a previous incubator report for the podling. 
> > What are the domain names in question? I think doing as you suggested 
> > sounds like a good idea do you want to take that back to the PPMC and 
> > discuss and/or vote on doing that.
> >
> > Any other IPMC members think differently?
>
> The podling PMC can make a recommendation but the decision to release a
> domain name to a third party needs the approval of VP Brand Management.
>
> We also need to find the transfer agreements (if any) for those domains
> to see what the ASF agreed to at the time of donation. It is not unheard
> of for such agreements to include a clause that ownership reverts to the
> donor if the podling does not graduate.
>
> Mark
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
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>

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Re: Poddlings length of time in the incubator

[Mark Thomas]

On 26/08/18 02:30, Justin Mclean wrote:
> Hi,
> 
>> I’ve discussed this some on the ODF toolkit dev list. Development was 
>> recently moved to Git. The Incubator needs to decide if we will turnover the 
>> domains that were donated in 2011 by IBM(?) to the only consistent 
>> developer. If that is true then we can quickly let them retire, but survive 
>> on Github.
> 
> I also saw you mentioned it in a previous incubator report for the podling. 
> What are the domain names in question? I think doing as you suggested sounds 
> like a good idea do you want to take that back to the PPMC and discuss and/or 
> vote on doing that.
> 
> Any other IPMC members think differently?

The podling PMC can make a recommendation but the decision to release a
domain name to a third party needs the approval of VP Brand Management.

We also need to find the transfer agreements (if any) for those domains
to see what the ASF agreed to at the time of donation. It is not unheard
of for such agreements to include a clause that ownership reverts to the
donor if the podling does not graduate.

Mark

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Re: Poddlings length of time in the incubator

[Justin Mclean]

Hi,

> I’ve discussed this some on the ODF toolkit dev list. Development was 
> recently moved to Git. The Incubator needs to decide if we will turnover the 
> domains that were donated in 2011 by IBM(?) to the only consistent developer. 
> If that is true then we can quickly let them retire, but survive on Github.

I also saw you mentioned it in a previous incubator report for the podling. 
What are the domain names in question? I think doing as you suggested sounds 
like a good idea do you want to take that back to the PPMC and discuss and/or 
vote on doing that.

Any other IPMC members think differently?

Thanks,
Justin

Re: Poddlings length of time in the incubator

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 25, 2018, at 4:43 PM, Justin Mclean  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Below is a list of podlings that have been in the incubator for more than 2 
> years. What can be done to encourage these projects along? Do they have 
> missing mentors or need some other assistance?
> 
> While not all podlings graduate in 2 years and may move towards graduation at 
> different rates, I’m not sure that the being in the incubator for longer than 
> 2 years achieves much.
> 
> Looking like they are soon to graduate:
> Airflow
> Singa
> Unomi
> 
> Reasonably active:
> Gearpump
> S2Graph
> Tamaya
> Taverna
> Tephra
> Toree
> 
> Little or low activity:
> BatchEE
> Edgent
> Joshua
> Milagro
> Myriad
> ODF Toolkit
> Pony Mail
> Quickstep
> Rya
> Samoa
> SensSoft
> 
> Possibly retirement?
> ODF toolkit (7 years in the incubator!)

I’ve discussed this some on the ODF toolkit dev list. Development was recently 
moved to Git. The Incubator needs to decide if we will turnover the domains 
that were donated in 2011 by IBM(?) to the only consistent developer. If that 
is true then we can quickly let them retire, but survive on Github.

What do people think?

Regards,
Dave

> 
> Retiring:
> Gossip
> 
> There was some talk of BatchEE graduation ion their list but seems little 
> activity. Could the mentors of that project follow up on that?
> 
> Edgent has had little activity since IBM staff have left and I'm not sure 
> what can be done there.
> 
> Is there any reason that S2Graph, Taverna and Tephra are not closer to 
> graduation?
> 
> Thanks,
> Justin


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