Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Folks, this is *NOT* a VOTE thread. Please refrain from casting ballots thanks, dims On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 1:46 AM, Sanjiva Weerawarana [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm -1 because the Axis2 project is not just axis2- its a collection of enabling pieces (axiom, neethi at least) and a bunch of up stream components (rampart, sandesha2, kandula2, wss4j etc.). So its really the web services project with an entire ws-* framework being covered by that. Calling the whole thing axis2 is not right as its not just about axis2. I would like to clearly identify components within the ws project that are retired or finished. These include (from what I know) scout, wsif, axis1, jaxme, kandula1, and sandesha1. However, as Nadra's message shows, there are parts of the axis1 family still alive and kicking. There are other projects that I think do not use axis1 or axis2 - for example juddi xmlrpc - that I think could go TLP on their own to reduce the size of ws. So I'm -1. However, Glen, what was the motivation for originating that thread? Is there something broken that needs to be fixed? IIRC Dims was always against splitting when he was PMC chair and I'd like to hear the reason for and against by both Glen and Dims too. Sanjiva. Davanum Srinivas wrote: Folks, There was a WS PMC thread which has not yet shown up here So, WDYT? Could we spin off Axis2 and related projects into a separate TLP? Pros / Cons / Thoughts welcome. thanks, dims -- Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D. Founder Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/ Founder, Chairman CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/ Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/ Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Gee...thanks a ton for the clarficiation. -- dims On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 7:18 AM, Sanjiva Weerawarana [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jeez I wasn't casting a vote - I expressed my opinion and then made it clear using the Apache terminology for expressing positions. Lighten up dude. Sanjiva. Davanum Srinivas wrote: Folks, this is *NOT* a VOTE thread. Please refrain from casting ballots thanks, dims On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 1:46 AM, Sanjiva Weerawarana [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm -1 because the Axis2 project is not just axis2- its a collection of enabling pieces (axiom, neethi at least) and a bunch of up stream components (rampart, sandesha2, kandula2, wss4j etc.). So its really the web services project with an entire ws-* framework being covered by that. Calling the whole thing axis2 is not right as its not just about axis2. I would like to clearly identify components within the ws project that are retired or finished. These include (from what I know) scout, wsif, axis1, jaxme, kandula1, and sandesha1. However, as Nadra's message shows, there are parts of the axis1 family still alive and kicking. There are other projects that I think do not use axis1 or axis2 - for example juddi xmlrpc - that I think could go TLP on their own to reduce the size of ws. So I'm -1. However, Glen, what was the motivation for originating that thread? Is there something broken that needs to be fixed? IIRC Dims was always against splitting when he was PMC chair and I'd like to hear the reason for and against by both Glen and Dims too. Sanjiva. Davanum Srinivas wrote: Folks, There was a WS PMC thread which has not yet shown up here So, WDYT? Could we spin off Axis2 and related projects into a separate TLP? Pros / Cons / Thoughts welcome. thanks, dims -- Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D. Founder Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/ Founder, Chairman CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/ Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/ Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D. Founder Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/ Founder, Chairman CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/ Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/ Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Dear Team, For a few years now, there is a growing consensus at the board level that a small focused PMC that directly reports to the board is better than a huge umbrella PMCs. two umbrella PMC's have already made transitions including XML and Jakarta. One reason is that they have found that a small focused PMC/committer set takes better care of the code, web site, releases, legal issues and basic oversight of day to day workings of a PMC better than a huge umbrella PMC. For example, personally i think Synapse has thrived after it left the fold. Take a look at our web site(s), take a look at our release schedules(s) - for all projects, take a look at our bug tracker(s). Does anyone see that we are doing an excellent job? We need to gather momentum, going TLP is an excellent way to do that. A small focused team that is working on a single goal of getting a good set of Axis2 related projects going is i think the right way to go. I think the Axis2 eco system will do better when we go TLP. Personally, I'd really like to get all of us committed, willing and able to contribute in a much more coordinated fashion then we are today. We don't hang out on IRC, no weekly chats, not much forward looking discussions, not much enthusiasm or cooperation anymore from looking at the mailing lists. I am trying to see if we can jumpstart that as well with this proposal. fwiw, Juddi and xmlrpc do not have sufficient people on board to go TLP as of this moment. Yes, we should try harder to get more people involved there or we end up moth-balling them. thanks, dims On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 1:46 AM, Sanjiva Weerawarana [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm -1 because the Axis2 project is not just axis2- its a collection of enabling pieces (axiom, neethi at least) and a bunch of up stream components (rampart, sandesha2, kandula2, wss4j etc.). So its really the web services project with an entire ws-* framework being covered by that. Calling the whole thing axis2 is not right as its not just about axis2. I would like to clearly identify components within the ws project that are retired or finished. These include (from what I know) scout, wsif, axis1, jaxme, kandula1, and sandesha1. However, as Nadra's message shows, there are parts of the axis1 family still alive and kicking. There are other projects that I think do not use axis1 or axis2 - for example juddi xmlrpc - that I think could go TLP on their own to reduce the size of ws. So I'm -1. However, Glen, what was the motivation for originating that thread? Is there something broken that needs to be fixed? IIRC Dims was always against splitting when he was PMC chair and I'd like to hear the reason for and against by both Glen and Dims too. Sanjiva. Davanum Srinivas wrote: Folks, There was a WS PMC thread which has not yet shown up here So, WDYT? Could we spin off Axis2 and related projects into a separate TLP? Pros / Cons / Thoughts welcome. thanks, dims -- Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D. Founder Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/ Founder, Chairman CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/ Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/ Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
One reason is that they have found that a small focused PMC/committer set takes better care of the code, web site, releases, legal issues and basic oversight of day to day workings of a PMC better than a huge umbrella PMC. For example, personally i think Synapse has thrived after it left the fold. I have to agree with Dims here , because at the moment WS is a very big project with a number of sub-projects. And WS consists of three main project as well , which is Apache SOAP , Axis1 and Axis2. Specially Axis1 and Axis2 has a number of sub projects as well. So managing them efficient manner is a challenging job , and specially for the PMC chair it is lot of work. Therefore it is always a good idea to modularize them. Take a look at our web site(s), take a look at our release schedules(s) - for all projects, take a look at our bug tracker(s). Does anyone see that we are doing an excellent job? I am sorry I do not understand what do you mean by bug tracker , is that the problem of number of issues or is it a problem of we are not taking care of them ? We need to gather momentum, going TLP is an excellent way to do that. A small focused team that is working on a single goal of getting a good set of Axis2 related projects going is i think the right way to go. I think the Axis2 eco system will do better when we go TLP. :) Personally, I'd really like to get all of us committed, willing and able to contribute in a much more coordinated fashion then we are today. We don't hang out on IRC, no weekly chats, not much forward looking discussions, not much enthusiasm or cooperation anymore from looking at the mailing lists. I am trying to see if we can jumpstart that as well with this proposal. Well part of the reason behind that is everyone is busy with their day to day work , for example when we start Axis2 we were fully focus on Axis2 . So it was so easy for us to do all those , but now we work on Axis2 and answer the mail when we get some free time. Anyway I agree that there are some improvements that we need to do. Thanks Deepal fwiw, Juddi and xmlrpc do not have sufficient people on board to go TLP as of this moment. Yes, we should try harder to get more people involved there or we end up moth-balling them. thanks, dims On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 1:46 AM, Sanjiva Weerawarana [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm -1 because the Axis2 project is not just axis2- its a collection of enabling pieces (axiom, neethi at least) and a bunch of up stream components (rampart, sandesha2, kandula2, wss4j etc.). So its really the web services project with an entire ws-* framework being covered by that. Calling the whole thing axis2 is not right as its not just about axis2. I would like to clearly identify components within the ws project that are retired or finished. These include (from what I know) scout, wsif, axis1, jaxme, kandula1, and sandesha1. However, as Nadra's message shows, there are parts of the axis1 family still alive and kicking. There are other projects that I think do not use axis1 or axis2 - for example juddi xmlrpc - that I think could go TLP on their own to reduce the size of ws. So I'm -1. However, Glen, what was the motivation for originating that thread? Is there something broken that needs to be fixed? IIRC Dims was always against splitting when he was PMC chair and I'd like to hear the reason for and against by both Glen and Dims too. Sanjiva. Davanum Srinivas wrote: Folks, There was a WS PMC thread which has not yet shown up here So, WDYT? Could we spin off Axis2 and related projects into a separate TLP? Pros / Cons / Thoughts welcome. thanks, dims -- Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D. Founder Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/ Founder, Chairman CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/ Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/ Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Thank you! http://blogs.deepal.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Deepal jayasinghe wrote: Personally, I'd really like to get all of us committed, willing and able to contribute in a much more coordinated fashion then we are today. We don't hang out on IRC, no weekly chats, not much forward looking discussions, not much enthusiasm or cooperation anymore from looking at the mailing lists. I am trying to see if we can jumpstart that as well with this proposal. Well part of the reason behind that is everyone is busy with their day to day work , for example when we start Axis2 we were fully focus on Axis2 . So it was so easy for us to do all those , but now we work on Axis2 and answer the mail when we get some free time. Anyway I agree that there are some improvements that we need to do. Also the other reason IMO is that axis2 is mostly done .. I have no objection at all to someone starting an axis3 or doing a lot of changes to axis2, but I personally don't have major problems that I see need to be fixed in axis2. Yes there are tons of JIRAs and lots of small issues, but those don't warrant / motivate the types of weekly chats and architectural conversations that we had in the early days. IMO the kernel of a SOAP stack is mostly a solved problem now. I think even CXF is seeing that .. and you don't see people writing new soap stacks any more! Again, if someone has a cool idea for a radical innovation what would drive yet another order of magnitude improvement (or there abouts) then I'm all ears for it. I personally haven't seen the light on how to improve the core of Axis2 CXF any more at this point. That absolutely could change tomorrow, next week, next month or next year but not today, at least for me. I'm not talking about incremental changes but rather radical innovation - the type of thing that will grab people and get their creative juices flowing. IMO a lot of the work that's interesting is now going on around Axis2, not in the core of it. Example, writing new deployers that plug in more stuff, writing cool transports etc. etc. - those all hang around axis2 but that doesn't make axis2 itself really improve. Sanjiva. -- Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D. Founder Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/ Founder, Chairman CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/ Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/ Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Deepal, yep, not taking care of them is what i meant. Yep, i totally understand day-to-day work. thanks, dims On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 12:47 PM, Deepal jayasinghe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One reason is that they have found that a small focused PMC/committer set takes better care of the code, web site, releases, legal issues and basic oversight of day to day workings of a PMC better than a huge umbrella PMC. For example, personally i think Synapse has thrived after it left the fold. I have to agree with Dims here , because at the moment WS is a very big project with a number of sub-projects. And WS consists of three main project as well , which is Apache SOAP , Axis1 and Axis2. Specially Axis1 and Axis2 has a number of sub projects as well. So managing them efficient manner is a challenging job , and specially for the PMC chair it is lot of work. Therefore it is always a good idea to modularize them. Take a look at our web site(s), take a look at our release schedules(s) - for all projects, take a look at our bug tracker(s). Does anyone see that we are doing an excellent job? I am sorry I do not understand what do you mean by bug tracker , is that the problem of number of issues or is it a problem of we are not taking care of them ? We need to gather momentum, going TLP is an excellent way to do that. A small focused team that is working on a single goal of getting a good set of Axis2 related projects going is i think the right way to go. I think the Axis2 eco system will do better when we go TLP. :) Personally, I'd really like to get all of us committed, willing and able to contribute in a much more coordinated fashion then we are today. We don't hang out on IRC, no weekly chats, not much forward looking discussions, not much enthusiasm or cooperation anymore from looking at the mailing lists. I am trying to see if we can jumpstart that as well with this proposal. Well part of the reason behind that is everyone is busy with their day to day work , for example when we start Axis2 we were fully focus on Axis2 . So it was so easy for us to do all those , but now we work on Axis2 and answer the mail when we get some free time. Anyway I agree that there are some improvements that we need to do. Thanks Deepal fwiw, Juddi and xmlrpc do not have sufficient people on board to go TLP as of this moment. Yes, we should try harder to get more people involved there or we end up moth-balling them. thanks, dims On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 1:46 AM, Sanjiva Weerawarana [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm -1 because the Axis2 project is not just axis2- its a collection of enabling pieces (axiom, neethi at least) and a bunch of up stream components (rampart, sandesha2, kandula2, wss4j etc.). So its really the web services project with an entire ws-* framework being covered by that. Calling the whole thing axis2 is not right as its not just about axis2. I would like to clearly identify components within the ws project that are retired or finished. These include (from what I know) scout, wsif, axis1, jaxme, kandula1, and sandesha1. However, as Nadra's message shows, there are parts of the axis1 family still alive and kicking. There are other projects that I think do not use axis1 or axis2 - for example juddi xmlrpc - that I think could go TLP on their own to reduce the size of ws. So I'm -1. However, Glen, what was the motivation for originating that thread? Is there something broken that needs to be fixed? IIRC Dims was always against splitting when he was PMC chair and I'd like to hear the reason for and against by both Glen and Dims too. Sanjiva. Davanum Srinivas wrote: Folks, There was a WS PMC thread which has not yet shown up here So, WDYT? Could we spin off Axis2 and related projects into a separate TLP? Pros / Cons / Thoughts welcome. thanks, dims -- Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D. Founder Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/ Founder, Chairman CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/ Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/ Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Thank you! http://blogs.deepal.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Hi dims, all: Davanum Srinivas wrote: For a few years now, there is a growing consensus at the board level that a small focused PMC that directly reports to the board is better than a huge umbrella PMCs. two umbrella PMC's have already made transitions including XML and Jakarta. +1. As PMC chair, I've definitely had a challenging time keeping up with everything going on in all the subprojects, and from a purely practical point of view, the board reports each quarter are pretty darn long. One reason is that they have found that a small focused PMC/committer set takes better care of the code, web site, releases, legal issues and basic oversight of day to day workings of a PMC better than a huge umbrella PMC. For example, personally i think Synapse has thrived after it left the fold. +1 Take a look at our web site(s), take a look at our release schedules(s) - for all projects, take a look at our bug tracker(s). Does anyone see that we are doing an excellent job? Point taken. We need to gather momentum, going TLP is an excellent way to do that. A small focused team that is working on a single goal of getting a good set of Axis2 related projects going is i think the right way to go. I think the Axis2 eco system will do better when we go TLP. I agree. Personally, I'd really like to get all of us committed, willing and able to contribute in a much more coordinated fashion then we are today. We don't hang out on IRC, no weekly chats, not much forward looking discussions, not much enthusiasm or cooperation anymore from looking at the mailing lists. I am trying to see if we can jumpstart that as well with this proposal. Well said! This was an excellent note, dims. I also very much believe that an Axis2 TLP will help get us focused on moving forward. fwiw, Juddi and xmlrpc do not have sufficient people on board to go TLP as of this moment. Yes, we should try harder to get more people involved there or we end up moth-balling them. Well, yeah - they're certainly not TLP-capable, but as they're already subprojects I'd like to put off the decision to moth-ball them for a while as long as there is at least one person dedicated to working on them... hence the proposal to keep these guys under WS. Thanks, --Glen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Hi Sanjiva: Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote: Also the other reason IMO is that axis2 is mostly done .. I have no objection at all to someone starting an axis3 or doing a lot of changes to axis2, but I personally don't have major problems that I see need to be fixed in axis2. Yes there are tons of JIRAs and lots of small issues, but those don't warrant / motivate the types of weekly chats and architectural conversations that we had in the early days. HTTPD has been around a lot longer than the WS project. Despite its bakedness, people routinely fix bugs, usability issues, submit patches, etc. The development community is often around on IRC. In short, it's an active and functional community around a live codebase. I think Axis2 is, honestly, far from done. And a bunch of the 515(!) JIRAs as of right now are real problems with either functionality or usability. We're not seeing these getting picked off on any kind of regular basis, so regardless of the TLP decision I think it's clear that the team as a whole needs to pay a little more attention to the project, and get that sense of active and functional community back. IMO a lot of the work that's interesting is now going on around Axis2, not in the core of it. Example, writing new deployers that plug in more stuff, writing cool transports etc. etc. - those all hang around axis2 but that doesn't make axis2 itself really improve. Two things here - first, I think that those kinds of things DO make Axis2 itself improve, because they often stretch the boundaries in ways that demonstrate blind spots or problems in the core (example - async transports and the core threading (or lack thereof) model). Second, you're exactly right that there is a lot of work going on around Axis2, which is why making it a TLP with Rampart, Sandesha, etc., as subprojects seems to make a lot of sense. Thanks, --Glen --Glen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Kurt T Stam wrote: jUDDI has 3 active developers working on implementing the UDDIv3 spec (http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/webservices/juddi/branches/v3_trunk/) . Please don't talk about moth-balling us! Just checking to see if you were paying attention. :) No way, Kurt - I hope to be using your stuff! Just to stave off concerns - we need to do a general review of the subprojects, but we will NOT drop actively developed codebases into the void. --Glen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
How does becoming a TLP change the status quo for getting things done? Sanjiva. Davanum Srinivas wrote: No one is asking that everyone needs to get excited at the proposal. If people are interested, let it move forward. If no one is interested, it will just drop dead. If people take this forward, they will decide what to do next when the TLP is formed, no one will be forced to sign up for work or need to get excited unnecessarily. In other words, Status Quo sucks! let's try something. If it works that's fine. If it doesn't there will be just another TLP. Hey we get one more guy to become a VP :) thanks, dims On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 1:10 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Deepal jayasinghe wrote: Personally, I'd really like to get all of us committed, willing and able to contribute in a much more coordinated fashion then we are today. We don't hang out on IRC, no weekly chats, not much forward looking discussions, not much enthusiasm or cooperation anymore from looking at the mailing lists. I am trying to see if we can jumpstart that as well with this proposal. Well part of the reason behind that is everyone is busy with their day to day work , for example when we start Axis2 we were fully focus on Axis2 . So it was so easy for us to do all those , but now we work on Axis2 and answer the mail when we get some free time. Anyway I agree that there are some improvements that we need to do. Also the other reason IMO is that axis2 is mostly done .. I have no objection at all to someone starting an axis3 or doing a lot of changes to axis2, but I personally don't have major problems that I see need to be fixed in axis2. Yes there are tons of JIRAs and lots of small issues, but those don't warrant / motivate the types of weekly chats and architectural conversations that we had in the early days. IMO the kernel of a SOAP stack is mostly a solved problem now. I think even CXF is seeing that .. and you don't see people writing new soap stacks any more! Again, if someone has a cool idea for a radical innovation what would drive yet another order of magnitude improvement (or there abouts) then I'm all ears for it. I personally haven't seen the light on how to improve the core of Axis2 CXF any more at this point. That absolutely could change tomorrow, next week, next month or next year but not today, at least for me. I'm not talking about incremental changes but rather radical innovation - the type of thing that will grab people and get their creative juices flowing. IMO a lot of the work that's interesting is now going on around Axis2, not in the core of it. Example, writing new deployers that plug in more stuff, writing cool transports etc. etc. - those all hang around axis2 but that doesn't make axis2 itself really improve. Sanjiva. -- Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D. Founder Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/ Founder, Chairman CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/ Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/ Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D. Founder Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/ Founder, Chairman CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/ Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/ Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
If we can find people to man the PMC's and act as chair, sure, let's get more projects as TLP's. -- dims On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 4:30 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Glen, so if you agree that its a TLP with Axis2 + up stream and downstream projects then why not push the other stuff from ws into their own TLPs? If we want to consider a new name for the ws project that's an option too but that's a different issue isn't it? Sanjiva. Glen Daniels wrote: Hi Sanjiva: Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote: Also the other reason IMO is that axis2 is mostly done .. I have no objection at all to someone starting an axis3 or doing a lot of changes to axis2, but I personally don't have major problems that I see need to be fixed in axis2. Yes there are tons of JIRAs and lots of small issues, but those don't warrant / motivate the types of weekly chats and architectural conversations that we had in the early days. HTTPD has been around a lot longer than the WS project. Despite its bakedness, people routinely fix bugs, usability issues, submit patches, etc. The development community is often around on IRC. In short, it's an active and functional community around a live codebase. I think Axis2 is, honestly, far from done. And a bunch of the 515(!) JIRAs as of right now are real problems with either functionality or usability. We're not seeing these getting picked off on any kind of regular basis, so regardless of the TLP decision I think it's clear that the team as a whole needs to pay a little more attention to the project, and get that sense of active and functional community back. IMO a lot of the work that's interesting is now going on around Axis2, not in the core of it. Example, writing new deployers that plug in more stuff, writing cool transports etc. etc. - those all hang around axis2 but that doesn't make axis2 itself really improve. Two things here - first, I think that those kinds of things DO make Axis2 itself improve, because they often stretch the boundaries in ways that demonstrate blind spots or problems in the core (example - async transports and the core threading (or lack thereof) model). Second, you're exactly right that there is a lot of work going on around Axis2, which is why making it a TLP with Rampart, Sandesha, etc., as subprojects seems to make a lot of sense. Thanks, --Glen --Glen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D. Founder Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/ Founder, Chairman CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/ Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/ Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Anything that is usable/shipped with Axis2 or depends on Axis2 IMHO. -- dims On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 4:32 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So Glen, if we're talking about a new TLP what are the proposed components under it? What will remain in the ws TLP because they don't have enough ammo to be a TLP? Sanjiva. Glen Daniels wrote: Hi dims, all: Davanum Srinivas wrote: For a few years now, there is a growing consensus at the board level that a small focused PMC that directly reports to the board is better than a huge umbrella PMCs. two umbrella PMC's have already made transitions including XML and Jakarta. +1. As PMC chair, I've definitely had a challenging time keeping up with everything going on in all the subprojects, and from a purely practical point of view, the board reports each quarter are pretty darn long. One reason is that they have found that a small focused PMC/committer set takes better care of the code, web site, releases, legal issues and basic oversight of day to day workings of a PMC better than a huge umbrella PMC. For example, personally i think Synapse has thrived after it left the fold. +1 Take a look at our web site(s), take a look at our release schedules(s) - for all projects, take a look at our bug tracker(s). Does anyone see that we are doing an excellent job? Point taken. We need to gather momentum, going TLP is an excellent way to do that. A small focused team that is working on a single goal of getting a good set of Axis2 related projects going is i think the right way to go. I think the Axis2 eco system will do better when we go TLP. I agree. Personally, I'd really like to get all of us committed, willing and able to contribute in a much more coordinated fashion then we are today. We don't hang out on IRC, no weekly chats, not much forward looking discussions, not much enthusiasm or cooperation anymore from looking at the mailing lists. I am trying to see if we can jumpstart that as well with this proposal. Well said! This was an excellent note, dims. I also very much believe that an Axis2 TLP will help get us focused on moving forward. fwiw, Juddi and xmlrpc do not have sufficient people on board to go TLP as of this moment. Yes, we should try harder to get more people involved there or we end up moth-balling them. Well, yeah - they're certainly not TLP-capable, but as they're already subprojects I'd like to put off the decision to moth-ball them for a while as long as there is at least one person dedicated to working on them... hence the proposal to keep these guys under WS. Thanks, --Glen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D. Founder Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/ Founder, Chairman CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/ Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/ Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
