Re: [gentoo-amd64] Where is '@system'?
On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 6:31 PM, James Ausmus james.aus...@gmail.com wrote: To see bare system, do: USE=-* emerge -pev @system Actually, this is a very good way to explore the effect of certain flags on the total package count. Thanks. As a minimum set your command shows USE=-* emerge -pev @system - Total: 86 packages I've got a long list of flags in make.conf. With them all I get emerge -epv @system - Total: 242 packages Three or four flags, enabled globally, cause most of the increase: USE=-cups emerge -epv @system - Total: 178 packages USE=-cups -java emerge -epv @system - Total: 139 packages USE=-cups -java -X emerge -epv @system - Total: 131 packages The other big one at the system level is -pam but I'm __very__ unsure about removing that totally: USE=-cups -java -X -pam emerge -epv @system - Total: 102 packages Is it necessary to turn on pam features on every package on my system that might use them? Truly, for me it's not about package count but more about the time it takes to build or update @system and whether this stuff is really required. I figure pam is, I tend to think cups, java and possibly X aren't needed at the system level. X is three packages directly and then a few more that they seem to drag in [ebuild R ] sys-apps/dbus-1.2.3-r1 USE=-X* -debug -doc (-selinux) 0 kB [ebuild R ] sys-apps/groff-1.20.1-r1 USE=-X* -examples LINGUAS=(-ja) 0 kB [ebuild R ] net-misc/openssh-5.2_p1-r3 USE=ldap pam tcpd -X* -X509 -hpn -kerberos -libedit -pkcs11 (-selinux) -skey -smartcard -static 0 kB I'm guessing X for openssh is a good idea if you want to do ssh -X -Y etc. but why does one need X for groff or dbus? (Ah, 'user's vision' of the mysteries of Gentoo use flags and what devs do with them...) ;-) I'm personally thinking I'm in better shape with cups and java not in make.conf and then adding them to packages where I really think I want them. In the end it likely ends up with more or less the same things on the system but fewer of them in @system. Thanks, Mark P.s. - thanks to all that answered. Trying to keeping the thread count down by just answering back once.
Re: [gentoo-amd64] Where is '@system'?
On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 8:24 AM, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 6:31 PM, James Ausmus james.aus...@gmail.com wrote: To see bare system, do: USE=-* emerge -pev @system Actually, this is a very good way to explore the effect of certain flags on the total package count. Thanks. As a minimum set your command shows USE=-* emerge -pev @system - Total: 86 packages I've got a long list of flags in make.conf. With them all I get emerge -epv @system - Total: 242 packages Three or four flags, enabled globally, cause most of the increase: USE=-cups emerge -epv @system - Total: 178 packages USE=-cups -java emerge -epv @system - Total: 139 packages USE=-cups -java -X emerge -epv @system - Total: 131 packages The other big one at the system level is -pam but I'm __very__ unsure about removing that totally: USE=-cups -java -X -pam emerge -epv @system - Total: 102 packages Is it necessary to turn on pam features on every package on my system that might use them? Truly, for me it's not about package count but more about the time it takes to build or update @system and whether this stuff is really required. I figure pam is, I tend to think cups, java and possibly X aren't needed at the system level. X is three packages directly and then a few more that they seem to drag in [ebuild R ] sys-apps/dbus-1.2.3-r1 USE=-X* -debug -doc (-selinux) 0 kB [ebuild R ] sys-apps/groff-1.20.1-r1 USE=-X* -examples LINGUAS=(-ja) 0 kB [ebuild R ] net-misc/openssh-5.2_p1-r3 USE=ldap pam tcpd -X* -X509 -hpn -kerberos -libedit -pkcs11 (-selinux) -skey -smartcard -static 0 kB I'm guessing X for openssh is a good idea if you want to do ssh -X -Y etc. but why does one need X for groff or dbus? (Ah, 'user's vision' of the mysteries of Gentoo use flags and what devs do with them...) ;-) I'm personally thinking I'm in better shape with cups and java not in make.conf and then adding them to packages where I really think I want them. In the end it likely ends up with more or less the same things on the system but fewer of them in @system. Thanks, Mark P.s. - thanks to all that answered. Trying to keeping the thread count down by just answering back once. One additional message about not selecting gdbm and berkdb together ended up removing only 7 packages from the machine overall but reduced @system from 242 packages to 138. I think that's a move in the right direction for me anyway. Final make.conf flag set: USE=aac alsa cairo caps cdda cddb cdparanoia cdr dts dvd dvdr ffmpeg flac fltk ftp gnome hal ieee1394 jack kde lame jpeg ladspa lame lash libsamplerate mmx mp3 mp4 mpeg musepack nsplugin ogg semantic-desktop sse sse2 ssse3 sse4 tifftruetype vorbis xine xv xvid vmware -bluetooth -esound -timidity -cups -java -gdbm Packages removed by --depclean: kde-base/kppp dev-java/gjdoc media-libs/sdl-mixer sys-libs/gdbm dev-lang/tcl dev-java/antlr media-libs/libmikmod 'Selected' packages are slated for removal. 'Protected' and 'omitted' packages will not be removed. Packages installed: 1018 Packages in world:71 Packages in system: 50 Required packages:1011 Number to remove: 7 firefly ~ # Additional flags added to package.use were: gnome-base/gnome cups =x11-libs/qt-3.3.8b-r2 cups app-text/ghostscript-gpl cups net-print/foomatic-filters cups x11-libs/gtk+ cups gnome-base/libgnomeprint cups x11-libs/qt-gui cups app-office/openoffice-bin java www-client/mozilla-firefox java net-print/cups java dev-util/subversion java net-libs/xulrunner java The qt-3.3 package is just hanging around until I update MythTV. Thanks all, Mark
Re: [gentoo-amd64] Where is '@system'?
On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 12:22 PM, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: I would like emerge -epv @system to be a fairly contained set of packages. (If possible like it was when I first built the system a mere 5 weeks ago...) It seems out of control on my system these days as it wants to emerge 242 packages. One major contributor is not using a global -cups use flag in make.conf which would reduce it to 178. That was added to figure out why Gnome didn't see Sups printers at all. Sure, I would then have to turn on cups for certain packages but that's OK with me. However I still see cairo, icedtea-bin, virtual java stuff, alsa-libs, and a bunch of x11-proto files so it doesn't feel like @system stuff to me 1) Where is the 'system' or '@system' specification on my machine? 2) If you folks run emerge -epv @system then how machine packages do you see? I believe it all depends on the profile you're using. If you're using a desktop profile maybe that's why it's calling in GUI toolkits and stuff...
Re: [gentoo-amd64] Where is '@system'?
On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Paul Hartman paul.hartman+gen...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 12:22 PM, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: I would like emerge -epv @system to be a fairly contained set of packages. (If possible like it was when I first built the system a mere 5 weeks ago...) It seems out of control on my system these days as it wants to emerge 242 packages. One major contributor is not using a global -cups use flag in make.conf which would reduce it to 178. That was added to figure out why Gnome didn't see Sups printers at all. Sure, I would then have to turn on cups for certain packages but that's OK with me. However I still see cairo, icedtea-bin, virtual java stuff, alsa-libs, and a bunch of x11-proto files so it doesn't feel like @system stuff to me 1) Where is the 'system' or '@system' specification on my machine? 2) If you folks run emerge -epv @system then how machine packages do you see? I believe it all depends on the profile you're using. If you're using a desktop profile maybe that's why it's calling in GUI toolkits and stuff... Thanks Paul. I hadn't thought of that and I think you're correct. I played a bit with changing profiles and then looking at what emerge -epv @system would or would not do. It's clearly related. In the end I wonder if this is a lost cause? If the packages I run really require these flags then they are all going to get built the same way. I'd prefer that @system was simple and that @world showed how I had changed the system to meet my needs, but I'm not sure it's worth the effort at this point to get there. Cheers, Mark
Re: [gentoo-amd64] Where is '@system'?
On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 4:23 PM, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Paul Hartman paul.hartman+gen...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 12:22 PM, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: I would like emerge -epv @system to be a fairly contained set of packages. (If possible like it was when I first built the system a mere 5 weeks ago...) It seems out of control on my system these days as it wants to emerge 242 packages. One major contributor is not using a global -cups use flag in make.conf which would reduce it to 178. That was added to figure out why Gnome didn't see Sups printers at all. Sure, I would then have to turn on cups for certain packages but that's OK with me. However I still see cairo, icedtea-bin, virtual java stuff, alsa-libs, and a bunch of x11-proto files so it doesn't feel like @system stuff to me 1) Where is the 'system' or '@system' specification on my machine? 2) If you folks run emerge -epv @system then how machine packages do you see? I believe it all depends on the profile you're using. If you're using a desktop profile maybe that's why it's calling in GUI toolkits and stuff... Thanks Paul. I hadn't thought of that and I think you're correct. I played a bit with changing profiles and then looking at what emerge -epv @system would or would not do. It's clearly related. In the end I wonder if this is a lost cause? If the packages I run really require these flags then they are all going to get built the same way. I'd prefer that @system was simple and that @world showed how I had changed the system to meet my needs, but I'm not sure it's worth the effort at this point to get there. Looking in the current desktop profile, it shows this: USE=a52 aac acpi alsa branding cairo cdr dbus dts dvd dvdr eds emboss encode evo fam firefox flac gif gnome gpm gstreamer gtk hal jpeg kde ldap libnotify mad mikmod mng mp3 mp4 mpeg ogg opengl pdf png ppds qt3support qt4 quicktime sdl spell svg thunar tiff truetype vorbis win32codecs unicode usb X x264 xml xulrunner xv xvid So support for things like gnome, gtk, kde and qt4 are there by default. I guess you could take the above list, put a - in front of the ones you don't think you want and put it in make.conf and see what happens. :)
Re: [gentoo-amd64] Where is '@system'?
On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 3:23 PM, Paul Hartman paul.hartman+gen...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 4:23 PM, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Paul Hartman paul.hartman+gen...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 12:22 PM, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: I would like emerge -epv @system to be a fairly contained set of packages. (If possible like it was when I first built the system a mere 5 weeks ago...) It seems out of control on my system these days as it wants to emerge 242 packages. One major contributor is not using a global -cups use flag in make.conf which would reduce it to 178. That was added to figure out why Gnome didn't see Sups printers at all. Sure, I would then have to turn on cups for certain packages but that's OK with me. However I still see cairo, icedtea-bin, virtual java stuff, alsa-libs, and a bunch of x11-proto files so it doesn't feel like @system stuff to me 1) Where is the 'system' or '@system' specification on my machine? 2) If you folks run emerge -epv @system then how machine packages do you see? I believe it all depends on the profile you're using. If you're using a desktop profile maybe that's why it's calling in GUI toolkits and stuff... Thanks Paul. I hadn't thought of that and I think you're correct. I played a bit with changing profiles and then looking at what emerge -epv @system would or would not do. It's clearly related. In the end I wonder if this is a lost cause? If the packages I run really require these flags then they are all going to get built the same way. I'd prefer that @system was simple and that @world showed how I had changed the system to meet my needs, but I'm not sure it's worth the effort at this point to get there. Looking in the current desktop profile, it shows this: USE=a52 aac acpi alsa branding cairo cdr dbus dts dvd dvdr eds emboss encode evo fam firefox flac gif gnome gpm gstreamer gtk hal jpeg kde ldap libnotify mad mikmod mng mp3 mp4 mpeg ogg opengl pdf png ppds qt3support qt4 quicktime sdl spell svg thunar tiff truetype vorbis win32codecs unicode usb X x264 xml xulrunner xv xvid So support for things like gnome, gtk, kde and qt4 are there by default. I guess you could take the above list, put a - in front of the ones you don't think you want and put it in make.conf and see what happens. :) Yeah, that's interesting and to some extent anyway probably involved with why I'm getting a lot of the package I get. What I'm not understanding yet is what packages themselves are in @system. Where do those come from? I'm assuming that because of all these flags some system packages then require more and more support packages as an avalance, but I'm not understanding what list of packages gets the whole things started. @world is /var/lib/portage/world. @system is ? Thanks, Mark
Re: [gentoo-amd64] Where is '@system'?
On 03/04/2010 08:44 PM, Mark Knecht wrote: Yeah, that's interesting and to some extent anyway probably involved with why I'm getting a lot of the package I get. What I'm not understanding yet is what packages themselves are in @system. Where do those come from? I'm assuming that because of all these flags some system packages then require more and more support packages as an avalance, but I'm not understanding what list of packages gets the whole things started. @world is /var/lib/portage/world. @system is ? System is set by the profile. It is stored in the packages file. Where it gets tricky is that profiles have inheritance. So, start with whatever is in make.profile. If it has a packages file, then everything in it is in @system for you. There is a good chance that there isn't even a packages file in your profile. Now, look in your profile directory for a file called parent. It may have one or more paths in it. Your profile inherits whatever is in those profiles. Check those for packages files, and add those to @system. Oh, you're not done, since each of those directories probably also has a parent file. By now you're probably checking 4 more directories or so. Eventually you'll run out of parents and will have identified everything in your @system set. Yes, it seems messy at first, but the inheritance does make sense. If you're on something typical like default/linux/amd64/10.0/desktop, you'll want anything that is amd64 related, anything that is gentoo 10 related, anything that is desktop related, and so on. Plus some packages are 10.0 desktop related for any arch, and some might be 10.0 related on any sub-profile that runs on linux, and others might be amd64-only but only for 10.0. The general goal is to keep @system fairly minimal. Granted, being source-based Gentoo has a pretty heavy system set, since it needs to be able to fully bootstrap the build environment and that means a fairly full toolchain. You also mentioned that you wanted @system to be as minimal as possible, and to have @world control most of the stuff you use. If that is your desire, you might consider switching to a server profile, or even just plain default/linux/amd64/10.0. If you do this you'll get a system that is fairly stripped down, and then you can add back in whatever you actually want. The desktop profile is the best starting point for 95% of ordinary end-users, however. Also - desktop is probably going to split into kde and gnome sub-categories, with desktop just being more generic (appropriate for xfce/etc - or something like a plain old window manager). That will help kde/gnome users to avoid pulling in too much stuff from the other environment that they don't use (although I've never been able to fully get away with that). I hope that helps a little... Rich
Re: [gentoo-amd64] Where is '@system'?
To see bare system, do: USE=-* emerge -pev @system On Mar 4, 2010 6:02 PM, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 3:23 PM, Paul Hartman paul.hartman+gen...@gmail.com paul.hartman%2bgen...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 4:23 PM, Mark Knecht markkne...@gma... Yeah, that's interesting and to some extent anyway probably involved with why I'm getting a lot of the package I get. What I'm not understanding yet is what packages themselves are in @system. Where do those come from? I'm assuming that because of all these flags some system packages then require more and more support packages as an avalance, but I'm not understanding what list of packages gets the whole things started. @world is /var/lib/portage/world. @system is ? Thanks, Mark
Re: [gentoo-amd64] Where is '@system'?
cat /usr/portage/profiles/base/packages - and all will be revealed :) All profiles should inherit from this - but may provide their own modifications - e.g. /usr/portage/profiles/arch/sparc/packages adds sparc-utils to @system on that set of platforms. Cheers, malc. On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 1:44 AM, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 3:23 PM, Paul Hartman paul.hartman+gen...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 4:23 PM, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Paul Hartman paul.hartman+gen...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 12:22 PM, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: I would like emerge -epv @system to be a fairly contained set of packages. (If possible like it was when I first built the system a mere 5 weeks ago...) It seems out of control on my system these days as it wants to emerge 242 packages. One major contributor is not using a global -cups use flag in make.conf which would reduce it to 178. That was added to figure out why Gnome didn't see Sups printers at all. Sure, I would then have to turn on cups for certain packages but that's OK with me. However I still see cairo, icedtea-bin, virtual java stuff, alsa-libs, and a bunch of x11-proto files so it doesn't feel like @system stuff to me 1) Where is the 'system' or '@system' specification on my machine? 2) If you folks run emerge -epv @system then how machine packages do you see? I believe it all depends on the profile you're using. If you're using a desktop profile maybe that's why it's calling in GUI toolkits and stuff... Thanks Paul. I hadn't thought of that and I think you're correct. I played a bit with changing profiles and then looking at what emerge -epv @system would or would not do. It's clearly related. In the end I wonder if this is a lost cause? If the packages I run really require these flags then they are all going to get built the same way. I'd prefer that @system was simple and that @world showed how I had changed the system to meet my needs, but I'm not sure it's worth the effort at this point to get there. Looking in the current desktop profile, it shows this: USE=a52 aac acpi alsa branding cairo cdr dbus dts dvd dvdr eds emboss encode evo fam firefox flac gif gnome gpm gstreamer gtk hal jpeg kde ldap libnotify mad mikmod mng mp3 mp4 mpeg ogg opengl pdf png ppds qt3support qt4 quicktime sdl spell svg thunar tiff truetype vorbis win32codecs unicode usb X x264 xml xulrunner xv xvid So support for things like gnome, gtk, kde and qt4 are there by default. I guess you could take the above list, put a - in front of the ones you don't think you want and put it in make.conf and see what happens. :) Yeah, that's interesting and to some extent anyway probably involved with why I'm getting a lot of the package I get. What I'm not understanding yet is what packages themselves are in @system. Where do those come from? I'm assuming that because of all these flags some system packages then require more and more support packages as an avalance, but I'm not understanding what list of packages gets the whole things started. @world is /var/lib/portage/world. @system is ? Thanks, Mark
