Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: vmware team needs help

[Michael Orlitzky]

On 02/14/2015 06:38 PM, Christopher Head wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 21:49:56 +0200
> Markos Chandras  wrote:
> 
>> You don't have to participate to the discussions in the mailing lists
>> :) You can just contribute code! Even a single patch a month or so is
>> better than nothing
> 
> Forgive me for hijacking the thread, but, the “or so” in the above
> isn’t all that flexible.
> 
> See section 3.k of
> .
> 

No one is going to boot you for inactivity if you have nothing to do.
You might get an "are you alive?" email, but assuming you answer within
a few weeks, "all my work is done" is the best reason to be doing nothing.

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: vmware team needs help

[Christopher Head]

On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 21:49:56 +0200
Markos Chandras  wrote:

> You don't have to participate to the discussions in the mailing lists
> :) You can just contribute code! Even a single patch a month or so is
> better than nothing

Forgive me for hijacking the thread, but, the “or so” in the above
isn’t all that flexible.

See section 3.k of
.

Being required to do something Gentoo-related at least every two months
in order to not be considered “inactive” pretty much eliminates any
incentive I had to try and become a developer presently. I could
certainly see myself picking up three or four packages that I
personally care about and maintaining them, but not actually needing to
commit anything for a couple of months simply because those packages
don’t release anything new very often. Then I’m declared inactive and
kicked out because I didn’t commit often enough, simply because I chose
to make a small contribution appropriate to my other workload, rather
than no contribution at all.

Perhaps that’s “your” (collective) intent—to avoid developers who do a
tiny bit of work here and there on a few packages, in favour of having
a much smaller number of developers who have to handle more
packages—which is fine, but it excludes people like me from
participating as full developers.
-- 
Christopher Head


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: ffmpeg vs libav choice of default

[Luca Barbato]

On 14/02/15 19:41, Fabio Erculiani wrote:

If only libav and ffmpeg developers would stop breaking their API on
every release...
Just break it once and for all. It's so sad that I still can't upgrade
from libav-9 because of this.

Feature request: could you stop breaking the API for a couple of
years? Thanks. If you say that you have to, well, I won't believe you.



Libav 10 and Libav 11 had no api removal for that reason and probably 
Libav 12 will see only few items deprecated since 2 years removed.


lu

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: vmware team needs help

[Markos Chandras]

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On 02/14/15 20:42, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> On 14/02/15 20:30, Andreas K. Huettel wrote:
>> Am Samstag, 14. Februar 2015, 15:38:12 schrieb Nikos 
>> Chantziaras:
>>> On 13/02/15 00:03, Andreas K. Huettel wrote:
 We have an overlay that can be used and is used for user 
 contributions.
>>> 
>>> Any plans to move it to github so we can fork and send pull 
>>> requests?
>> 
>> Any plans to take the quizzes and take responsibility yourself? 
>> :)
> 
> I've been around long enough (2005-ish or so) to know that I don't 
> want the Gentoo dev-community drama :-P  But perhaps more 
> importantly, I tend to disappear for whole months at a time.
> 
> Should user-submitted patches/pull requests be sent to the vmware 
> herd email, or directly to you?
> 
> 
You don't have to participate to the discussions in the mailing lists
:) You can just contribute code! Even a single patch a month or so is
better than nothing

- -- 
Regards,
Markos Chandras
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: vmware team needs help

[Michał Górny]

Dnia 2015-02-14, o godz. 19:43:08
Alexis Ballier  napisał(a):

> On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 17:10:36 +0100
> "Andreas K. Huettel"  wrote:
> 
> > Am Samstag, 14. Februar 2015, 16:00:46 schrieb Kristian Fiskerstrand:
> > 
> > > 
> > > References:
> > > [PHABRICATOR] http://phabricator.org
> > 
> > Let me point at the other pink elephant in the room.
> > https://about.gitlab.com/
> > 
> 
> +1
> 
> i've never worked on deploying it but i've seen people doing it and it
> seems it's some non negligible amount of work...
> 
> considering a simple cgit viewer for g.o.g.o isn't even there, i'd say
> any solution is good as long as someone volunteers to do the work

http://cgit.gentooexperimental.org/


-- 
Best regards,
Michał Górny


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: vmware team needs help

[Alexis Ballier]

On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 17:10:36 +0100
"Andreas K. Huettel"  wrote:

> Am Samstag, 14. Februar 2015, 16:00:46 schrieb Kristian Fiskerstrand:
> 
> > 
> > References:
> > [PHABRICATOR] http://phabricator.org
> 
> Let me point at the other pink elephant in the room.
> https://about.gitlab.com/
> 

+1

i've never worked on deploying it but i've seen people doing it and it
seems it's some non negligible amount of work...

considering a simple cgit viewer for g.o.g.o isn't even there, i'd say
any solution is good as long as someone volunteers to do the work


meanwhile, github, or any equivalent that fits better the social
contract, is just as good and already deployed

[gentoo-dev] Re: vmware team needs help

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 14/02/15 20:30, Andreas K. Huettel wrote:

Am Samstag, 14. Februar 2015, 15:38:12 schrieb Nikos Chantziaras:

On 13/02/15 00:03, Andreas K. Huettel wrote:

We have an overlay that can be used and is used for user contributions.


Any plans to move it to github so we can fork and send pull requests?


Any plans to take the quizzes and take responsibility yourself? :)


I've been around long enough (2005-ish or so) to know that I don't want 
the Gentoo dev-community drama :-P  But perhaps more importantly, I tend 
to disappear for whole months at a time.


Should user-submitted patches/pull requests be sent to the vmware herd 
email, or directly to you?

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: ffmpeg vs libav choice of default

[Fabio Erculiani]

If only libav and ffmpeg developers would stop breaking their API on
every release...
Just break it once and for all. It's so sad that I still can't upgrade
from libav-9 because of this.

Feature request: could you stop breaking the API for a couple of
years? Thanks. If you say that you have to, well, I won't believe you.

Re: [gentoo-dev] ffmpeg vs libav choice of default

[Alexis Ballier]

On Sun, 15 Feb 2015 01:32:40 +0800
Ben de Groot  wrote:

> On 4 February 2015 at 17:26, Alexis Ballier 
> wrote:
> > On Wed, 4 Feb 2015 10:12:12 +0100
> > Ulrich Mueller  wrote:
> >
> >> With the recent introduction of the libav USE flag, the Gentoo
> >> default for ffmpeg vs libav is more pronounced than it was before
> >> (with libav being listed first in || ( ) dependencies).
> >>
> >> In the replies to http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?p=7694982
> >> several users have expressed their preference for ffmpeg.
> >>
> >> So can someone please remind me what are the technical reasons why
> >> we prefer libav over ffmpeg?
> >
> >
> > good luck !
> >
> > wait for other opinions, but I'd say: libav has a cleaner codebase
> > and stricter development rules. (NB: some gentoo devs are member of
> > the core libav dev team)
> >
> >
> > IMHO, from a pure consumer POV where I want to play a random video
> > and my programs using the libraries not to break, ffmpeg is much
> > better (more codecs get in faster, API is preserved a bit longer),
> > so I never understood nor agreed with that choice of default.
> 
> I think for our users the latter is more important.
> 
> After all the discussion we had here and on the forums,
> I propose we change the default to ffmpeg.
> 
> Thoughts?


I'd say let libav be default in developer profiles, ffmpeg in base.
It's good to have the stricter one default for developers in order not
to make it completely unusable for users.


Alexis.

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: vmware team needs help

[Andreas K. Huettel]

Am Samstag, 14. Februar 2015, 15:38:12 schrieb Nikos Chantziaras:
> On 13/02/15 00:03, Andreas K. Huettel wrote:
> > We have an overlay that can be used and is used for user contributions.
> 
> Any plans to move it to github so we can fork and send pull requests?

Any plans to take the quizzes and take responsibility yourself? :)

-- 
Andreas K. Huettel
Gentoo Linux developer (council, perl, libreoffice)
dilfri...@gentoo.org
http://www.akhuettel.de/


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: vmware team needs help

[Michał Górny]

Dnia 2015-02-14, o godz. 17:10:36
"Andreas K. Huettel"  napisał(a):

> Am Samstag, 14. Februar 2015, 16:00:46 schrieb Kristian Fiskerstrand:
> 
> > 
> > References:
> > [PHABRICATOR] http://phabricator.org
> 
> Let me point at the other pink elephant in the room.
> https://about.gitlab.com/

Could we limit this to packages that can be sanely deployed?

-- 
Best regards,
Michał Górny


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Re: [gentoo-dev] ffmpeg vs libav choice of default

[Ben de Groot]

On 4 February 2015 at 17:26, Alexis Ballier  wrote:
> On Wed, 4 Feb 2015 10:12:12 +0100
> Ulrich Mueller  wrote:
>
>> With the recent introduction of the libav USE flag, the Gentoo default
>> for ffmpeg vs libav is more pronounced than it was before (with libav
>> being listed first in || ( ) dependencies).
>>
>> In the replies to http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?p=7694982
>> several users have expressed their preference for ffmpeg.
>>
>> So can someone please remind me what are the technical reasons why we
>> prefer libav over ffmpeg?
>
>
> good luck !
>
> wait for other opinions, but I'd say: libav has a cleaner codebase and
> stricter development rules. (NB: some gentoo devs are member of the core
> libav dev team)
>
>
> IMHO, from a pure consumer POV where I want to play a random video and
> my programs using the libraries not to break, ffmpeg is much better
> (more codecs get in faster, API is preserved a bit longer), so I never
> understood nor agreed with that choice of default.

I think for our users the latter is more important.

After all the discussion we had here and on the forums,
I propose we change the default to ffmpeg.

Thoughts?
-- 
Cheers,

Ben | yngwin
Gentoo developer

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: vmware team needs help

[Andreas K. Huettel]

Am Samstag, 14. Februar 2015, 16:00:46 schrieb Kristian Fiskerstrand:

> 
> References:
> [PHABRICATOR] http://phabricator.org

Let me point at the other pink elephant in the room.
https://about.gitlab.com/

-- 
Andreas K. Huettel
Gentoo Linux developer (council, perl, libreoffice)
dilfri...@gentoo.org
http://www.akhuettel.de/


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: vmware team needs help

[Kristian Fiskerstrand]

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On 02/14/2015 04:34 PM, Michael Orlitzky wrote:
> On 02/14/2015 10:00 AM, Kristian Fiskerstrand wrote:
>> 
>> Does anyone have experience with solutions such as
>> [PHABRICATOR]? other similar systems?
>> 
>> References: [PHABRICATOR] http://phabricator.org
>> 
> 
> (Has everyone forgotten that you don't need Github if you want to
> send a `git request-pull` ?)
> 

A fair point, indeed

> Phabricator works OK but it's a behemoth and tries to integrate a
> bunch of things we don't want to integrate. Maybe there's a way to
> disable them?
> 
> A big turnoff for me was the install instructions, which are:
> 
> $ git clone https://github.com/phacility/libphutil.git $ git clone
> https://github.com/phacility/arcanist.git $ git clone
> https://github.com/phacility/phabricator.git
> 
> They all look for each other in the same directory, and there are
> no releases.

Yeah, that looks bad enough to run away screaming. Thanks.

> 
> A good compromise is to host the official repo on git.overlays.g.o
> and then mirror it on Github. That way less-experienced git users
> can contribute easily, and the devs can figure out how to get the
> changes into the official repo.
> 

Indeed

- -- 
Kristian Fiskerstrand
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: vmware team needs help

[Michael Orlitzky]

On 02/14/2015 10:00 AM, Kristian Fiskerstrand wrote:
> 
> Does anyone have experience with solutions such as [PHABRICATOR]?
> other similar systems?
> 
> References:
> [PHABRICATOR] http://phabricator.org
> 

(Has everyone forgotten that you don't need Github if you want to send a
`git request-pull` ?)

Phabricator works OK but it's a behemoth and tries to integrate a bunch
of things we don't want to integrate. Maybe there's a way to disable them?

A big turnoff for me was the install instructions, which are:

  $ git clone https://github.com/phacility/libphutil.git
  $ git clone https://github.com/phacility/arcanist.git
  $ git clone https://github.com/phacility/phabricator.git

They all look for each other in the same directory, and there are no
releases.

A good compromise is to host the official repo on git.overlays.g.o and
then mirror it on Github. That way less-experienced git users can
contribute easily, and the devs can figure out how to get the changes
into the official repo.

[gentoo-dev] Re: vmware team needs help

[Michael Palimaka]

On 15/02/15 02:00, Kristian Fiskerstrand wrote:
> On 02/14/2015 03:38 PM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>> On 13/02/15 00:03, Andreas K. Huettel wrote:
>>> We have an overlay that can be used and is used for user
>>> contributions.
> 
>> Any plans to move it to github so we can fork and send pull
>> requests?
> 
> 
> 
> As a general comment (I'm not at all related to vmware team), we can
> well discuss merits of code review, pull requests etc and even using
> difference VCSes (in this case Git). But lets please not move too much
> outside of gentoo infrastructure control and of all things discussing
>  a proprietary solution?
> 
> Does anyone have experience with solutions such as [PHABRICATOR]?
> other similar systems?
> 
> References:
> [PHABRICATOR] http://phabricator.org
> 
> 
> 

Most (all?) Gentoo overlays on GitHub still retain their presence on g.o.g.o

Re: [gentoo-dev] vmware team needs help

[Markos Chandras]

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On 13/02/2015 12:03 ??, Andreas K. Huettel wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I'm the only dev left in the vmware team who is taking care of
> VMware Workstation and friends. Or more precisely, not taking care
> of it these days, since my non-Gentoo workload is increasing and
> since VMware Workstation is not really the highest thing on my
> Gentoo priority list either (though I use it regularly).
> 
> We could really need some help here... Things to do are e.g. *
> vmware-workstation, vmware-player, vmware-modules major version
> bump * tracking and applying patches to vmware-modules for newer
> kernels * sorting out the screwed-up bundled library situation ...
> :(
> 
> We have an overlay that can be used and is used for user
> contributions.
> 
> The only real alternative is to treeclean and tell people to use
> the bundled installer. No idea how well this works.
> 
> Talk to me if interested...
> 
> Best, Andreas
> 

If you write a small item we can add it to the next GMN to reach a
wider audience. I see we already have a vmware entry at
http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Gentoo/Staffing_Needs/Vmware_developer
which is nice :)

- -- 
Regards,
Markos Chandras
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: vmware team needs help

[Kristian Fiskerstrand]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

On 02/14/2015 03:38 PM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> On 13/02/15 00:03, Andreas K. Huettel wrote:
>> We have an overlay that can be used and is used for user
>> contributions.
> 
> Any plans to move it to github so we can fork and send pull
> requests?
> 
> 

As a general comment (I'm not at all related to vmware team), we can
well discuss merits of code review, pull requests etc and even using
difference VCSes (in this case Git). But lets please not move too much
outside of gentoo infrastructure control and of all things discussing
 a proprietary solution?

Does anyone have experience with solutions such as [PHABRICATOR]?
other similar systems?

References:
[PHABRICATOR] http://phabricator.org

- -- 
Kristian Fiskerstrand
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[gentoo-dev] Re: vmware team needs help

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 13/02/15 00:03, Andreas K. Huettel wrote:

We have an overlay that can be used and is used for user contributions.


Any plans to move it to github so we can fork and send pull requests?