[gentoo-dev] pending dooooooom of use.defaults
as one of the new sane features of the next portage-2.1_pre release, we're looking to cut out use.defaults support existing stable users wont be affected as the 2.0.x versions will continue to carry support for this, but some of you stable users may notice some USE flags suddenly "disappearing" to recap, use.defaults inserts USE flags for you based upon what packages you have installed when you havent declared a preference. for example, if you have neither '-cups' or 'cups' in your USE (either in your make.conf, profile, env, whatever), but you do have the net-print/cups package installed, portage will add 'cups' to your USE -mike -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] pending dooooooom of use.defaults
Mike Frysinger wrote:
> as one of the new sane features of the next portage-2.1_pre release, we're
> looking to cut out use.defaults support
>
> existing stable users wont be affected as the 2.0.x versions will continue to
> carry support for this, but some of you stable users may notice some USE
> flags suddenly "disappearing"
>
> to recap, use.defaults inserts USE flags for you based upon what packages you
> have installed when you havent declared a preference. for example, if you
> have neither '-cups' or 'cups' in your USE (either in your make.conf,
> profile, env, whatever), but you do have the net-print/cups package
> installed, portage will add 'cups' to your USE
Can I just ask, since when is this "feature" on? I have never run into it...
Or is it because I always had:
USE="-* ${MY_USE}"
in /etc/make.conf?
Is "-*" counted as preference? I thought that is ignoring just the ones in
the profile ("just" is plain wrong, as I didn't even feel there were other
useflags :-)
Kalin
--
|[ ~~ ]|
+-> http://ThinRope.net/ <-+
|[ __ ]|
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] pending dooooooom of use.defaults
On Fri, Jan 13, 2006 at 06:57:24AM -0500, Mike Frysinger wrote: > as one of the new sane features of the next portage-2.1_pre release, we're > looking to cut out use.defaults support > > existing stable users wont be affected as the 2.0.x versions will continue to > carry support for this, but some of you stable users may notice some USE ^^ > flags suddenly "disappearing" I'm a bit confused, existing stable users won't be affected, but they will notice use flags "disappearing"? Wouldn't that mean they are affected or did you simply mistype and mean unstable? > to recap, use.defaults inserts USE flags for you based upon what packages you > have installed when you havent declared a preference. for example, if you > have neither '-cups' or 'cups' in your USE (either in your make.conf, > profile, env, whatever), but you do have the net-print/cups package > installed, portage will add 'cups' to your USE That's the current behaviour in stable 2.0.x and will be gone with 2.1, right? I'm a little confused now, could you clarify this? cheers, Wernfried -- Wernfried Haas (amne) - amne at gentoo dot org Gentoo Forums: http://forums.gentoo.org IRC: #gentoo-forums on freenode - email: forum-mods at gentoo dot org pgpEq7ORbfSdJ.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] pending dooooooom of use.defaults
On Friday 13 January 2006 11:15, Kalin KOZHUHAROV wrote:
> Or is it because I always had:
> USE="-* ${MY_USE}"
> in /etc/make.conf?
yes
-mike
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] pending dooooooom of use.defaults
On Friday 13 January 2006 11:15, Wernfried Haas wrote: > On Fri, Jan 13, 2006 at 06:57:24AM -0500, Mike Frysinger wrote: > > existing stable users wont be affected as the 2.0.x versions will > > continue to carry support for this, but some of you stable users may > > notice some USE > > flags suddenly "disappearing" > > I'm a bit confused, existing stable users won't be affected, but they > will notice use flags "disappearing"? Wouldn't that mean they are > affected or did you simply mistype and mean unstable? correct, should have said unstable > > to recap, use.defaults inserts USE flags for you based upon what packages > > you have installed when you havent declared a preference. for example, > > if you have neither '-cups' or 'cups' in your USE (either in your > > make.conf, profile, env, whatever), but you do have the net-print/cups > > package installed, portage will add 'cups' to your USE > > That's the current behaviour in stable 2.0.x and will be gone with > 2.1, right? yes -mike -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] pending dooooooom of use.defaults
On Fri, Jan 13, 2006 at 06:57:24AM -0500, Mike Frysinger wrote: > as one of the new sane features of the next portage-2.1_pre release, we're > looking to cut out use.defaults support Could you add a USE_ORDER without "auto" to /etc/make.globals for that release, please, or alternatively provide some other way of checking whether use.defaults is read? This would greatly help me out with ufed, which currently has no way to check this, and instead has to hardcode "env:pkg:conf:auto:defaults" as the default USE_ORDER just like portage does. pgpx4vERZRK22.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] pending dooooooom of use.defaults
Can we get this on the website/announce? I agree that auto-use is the
suck and that it needs to die a long excrutiating death, but I think a
lot of users will be like wtf when 2.1 hits stable and --newuse turns up
a massive crapload of packages.
Whether this announced now, or when portage-2.1 hits stable, or both, I
don't really care. If you need a ditty to post about it we can probably
whip one up.
Mike Frysinger wrote:
On Friday 13 January 2006 11:15, Kalin KOZHUHAROV wrote:
Or is it because I always had:
USE="-* ${MY_USE}"
in /etc/make.conf?
yes
-mike
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] pending dooooooom of use.defaults
On Fri, 2006-01-13 at 13:26 -0500, Alec Joseph Warner wrote: > but I think a > lot of users will be like wtf when 2.1 hits stable and --newuse turns > up > a massive crapload of packages. Could we include a simple script to add these USE to the users make.conf before they upgrade to 2.1. Without somthing like this, I see a wave of 'bugs' about it. -- Lares Moreau <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | LRU: 400755 http://counter.li.org lares/irc.freenode.net | Gentoo x86 Arch Tester | ::0 Alberta, Canada Public Key: 0D46BB6E @ subkeys.pgp.net | Encrypted Mail Preferred Key fingerprint = 0CA3 E40D F897 7709 3628 C5D4 7D94 483E 0D46 BB6E signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] pending dooooooom of use.defaults
On Friday 13 January 2006 12:49, Harald van Dijk wrote: > On Fri, Jan 13, 2006 at 06:57:24AM -0500, Mike Frysinger wrote: > > as one of the new sane features of the next portage-2.1_pre release, > > we're looking to cut out use.defaults support > > Could you add a USE_ORDER without "auto" to /etc/make.globals for that > release, please, or alternatively provide some other way of checking > whether use.defaults is read? you should be able to get the value from `portageq envvar USE_ORDER` i know this doesnt currently work, but imo that's a bug that should be fixed -mike -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] pending dooooooom of use.defaults
On Fri, 2006-01-13 at 06:57 -0500, Mike Frysinger wrote: > as one of the new sane features of the next portage-2.1_pre release, we're > looking to cut out use.defaults support I see this as a good and bad thing. Good in one hand that less autojunk would be enabled like python/perl bindings not being added to every program on your system that supports it. Bad in the other hand I see the state of profiles getting worse=more bloated. The autouse itself is not a bad feature or idea if it were used properly. Problem is that it's not been used properly. If it were limited to simple things like just X and the things that actually make sense then it would even be fine to keep and would allow some of the more bloated (default-linux) profiles to be cleaned up. Shrug. I like the existing behavior and the power of deciding for myself when and where I want to take advantage of USE_ORDER= > existing stable users wont be affected as the 2.0.x versions will continue to > carry support for this, but some of you stable users may notice some USE > flags suddenly "disappearing" > > to recap, use.defaults inserts USE flags for you based upon what packages you > have installed when you havent declared a preference. for example, if you > have neither '-cups' or 'cups' in your USE (either in your make.conf, > profile, env, whatever), but you do have the net-print/cups package > installed, portage will add 'cups' to your USE > -mike -- solar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Gentoo Linux -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] pending dooooooom of use.defaults
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 15:13:02 -0500 solar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: | The autouse itself is not a bad feature or idea if it were used properly. | Problem is that it's not been used properly. No, it's bad. It's another thing that makes correct dependency resolution impossible. -- Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (King of all Londinium) Mail: ciaranm at gentoo.org Web : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] pending dooooooom of use.defaults
On Fri, 2006-01-13 at 20:23 +, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: > On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 15:13:02 -0500 solar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > | The autouse itself is not a bad feature or idea if it were used properly. > | Problem is that it's not been used properly. > > No, it's bad. It's another thing that makes correct dependency > resolution impossible. If your going to contradict somebody why don't you give more detail and less opinion. -- solar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Gentoo Linux -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] pending dooooooom of use.defaults
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 15:50:08 -0500 solar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: | On Fri, 2006-01-13 at 20:23 +, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: | > On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 15:13:02 -0500 solar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: | > | The autouse itself is not a bad feature or idea if it were used | > | properly. Problem is that it's not been used properly. | > | > No, it's bad. It's another thing that makes correct dependency | > resolution impossible. | | If your going to contradict somebody why don't you give more detail | and less opinion. *shrug* It's pretty obvious. You probably already know this, but for the benefit of those who really haven't thought about it rather than those who just want to go around trolling... When a package that toggles a USE flag gets installed, the dep resolver has to go back and regenerate the deplist with that USE flag changed. However, this can cause the package that would have enabled the USE flag to no longer be installed. -- Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (King of all Londinium) Mail: ciaranm at gentoo.org Web : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] pending dooooooom of use.defaults
IMHO a lot of the auto-use stuff that is "mis-used" is moreso what IUSE defaults is for. I have a crappy patch for IUSE defaults that I may try to work on so that it can be merged in the 2.1/2.2 branch. I realize that this is probably a bit far off, but will hopefully improve the situation. Of course at that point we can dump the crappy nocxx flags too ;) solar wrote: On Fri, 2006-01-13 at 06:57 -0500, Mike Frysinger wrote: as one of the new sane features of the next portage-2.1_pre release, we're looking to cut out use.defaults support I see this as a good and bad thing. Good in one hand that less autojunk would be enabled like python/perl bindings not being added to every program on your system that supports it. Bad in the other hand I see the state of profiles getting worse=more bloated. The autouse itself is not a bad feature or idea if it were used properly. Problem is that it's not been used properly. If it were limited to simple things like just X and the things that actually make sense then it would even be fine to keep and would allow some of the more bloated (default-linux) profiles to be cleaned up. Shrug. I like the existing behavior and the power of deciding for myself when and where I want to take advantage of USE_ORDER= existing stable users wont be affected as the 2.0.x versions will continue to carry support for this, but some of you stable users may notice some USE flags suddenly "disappearing" to recap, use.defaults inserts USE flags for you based upon what packages you have installed when you havent declared a preference. for example, if you have neither '-cups' or 'cups' in your USE (either in your make.conf, profile, env, whatever), but you do have the net-print/cups package installed, portage will add 'cups' to your USE -mike -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] pending dooooooom of use.defaults
On Friday 13 January 2006 15:13, solar wrote: > On Fri, 2006-01-13 at 06:57 -0500, Mike Frysinger wrote: > > as one of the new sane features of the next portage-2.1_pre release, > > we're looking to cut out use.defaults support > > I see this as a good and bad thing. Good in one hand that less autojunk > would be enabled like python/perl bindings not being added to every > program on your system that supports it. Bad in the other hand I see > the state of profiles getting worse=more bloated. i dont really see the profiles getting any more USE flags than they already have ... as for bloated, i see it as being a more-than-worth-it trade off when it comes to stability a profile-based USE will always stay the same while a autouse-based USE may fluctuate greatly based upon what the user emerges from day to day > The autouse itself is not a bad feature or idea if it were used properly. there is no used properly or improperly when it comes to use.defaults -mike -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
