Re: [gentoo-dev] Local USE defaults
On Fri, Aug 19, 2005 at 12:10:44AM -0700, Donnie Berkholz wrote: > Brian Harring wrote: > | Yeah, but the angle I'm pushing for default IUSE's ...er.. use is > | eliminating no* flags, and giving ebuild maintainers more flexibility > | in breaking the package down into conditionals. > | > | I really don't see -* being all that useful long term frankly, since > | the major usage of it I've seen is either within cascaded profiles, or > | nuking autouse; people do block profile use flags also, but killing > | autouse falls in with killing profiles :) > > I don't think that having -* not actually do -* is a good idea. And most > people adding local flags don't really consider the -* case so creating > no* flags isn't a major concern. > > ~From my POV, -* is expected to not work well, but it should do what it > suggests: subtract everything. Meh. -* 's meaning right now is to nuke all USE flags that portage tries to 'help' in adding. Having it nuke all default use seems wrong, since people *currently* use -* to block autouse crap, and -* isn't what they signed up for initially. Different flag imo seems wise, rather then grandfathering people into it; nuking what the profile offers should be available, but I don't think nuking default IUSE should be nuked as an added bonus of trying to disable auto-use/profile cruft. Thoughts? ~harring pgpbkcy5u7w33.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Local USE defaults
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Brian Harring wrote: | Yeah, but the angle I'm pushing for default IUSE's ...er.. use is | eliminating no* flags, and giving ebuild maintainers more flexibility | in breaking the package down into conditionals. | | I really don't see -* being all that useful long term frankly, since | the major usage of it I've seen is either within cascaded profiles, or | nuking autouse; people do block profile use flags also, but killing | autouse falls in with killing profiles :) I don't think that having -* not actually do -* is a good idea. And most people adding local flags don't really consider the -* case so creating no* flags isn't a major concern. ~From my POV, -* is expected to not work well, but it should do what it suggests: subtract everything. Thanks, Donnie -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFDBYX0XVaO67S1rtsRArRCAKCUEf96xd62wTe/Hh38P/+C5AQixACfcbaI EtWc7AVEoSmegymfNCl6qcw= =E/qT -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Local USE defaults
On Thu, Aug 18, 2005 at 01:18:17PM -0400, Mike Frysinger wrote: > > > Yes, very. Saves us from hacky local USE flag handling by naming them > > > no* or adding them to profiles. > > > > Which then raises the question of whether or not -* in a users USE > > should disable it. > > I say no, since -* is mainly for killing off auto-use crap and > > profiles. > > doesnt matter to me one way or the other ... may be confusing to users though > who do `USE=-* emerge blah -pv` and see flags enabled Yeah, but the angle I'm pushing for default IUSE's ...er.. use is eliminating no* flags, and giving ebuild maintainers more flexibility in breaking the package down into conditionals. I really don't see -* being all that useful long term frankly, since the major usage of it I've seen is either within cascaded profiles, or nuking autouse; people do block profile use flags also, but killing autouse falls in with killing profiles :) ~harring pgpkDrwhvMgCp.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Local USE defaults
On Thu, Aug 18, 2005 at 01:16:05PM -0400, Alec Warner wrote: > As long as there is a way provided disable the 'default use flags' in > this case referring to the IUSE="+foo" stuff, with a big warning that > says crap generally isn't expected to work great with that setting on, > then thats fine. I can see something like a profile setting for this, > since embedded may not want the same IUSE defaults as AMD64 > multilib...this also saves the profiles from becoming huge with "Hi turn > this default flag off, and that flag off, and this flag on..." crud. See... -* shouldn't affect default IUSE. Why? Because if you make it flip off the ebuilds default use flags, you're forcing the ebuild to start using no* flags instead. Ebuilds are unconfigured- there are default IUSE serves purely as a way for the ebuild maintainer to allow the ebuild to be broken down further- they can do it now, by adding a crapload of no* flags. Allowing -* to castrate default IUSE forces them back into no* flags. Literally, for the embedded example, they already probably have all of the no* flags flipped on if needed- an action was taken, you just change it so it's USE="-theflag" rather then USE="noflag". Either way, the work involved is effectively the same. Either way, profiles shouldn't be screwing with the ebuilds in that fashion imo. Note this assuming this feature isn't used as a way to do 'suggested deps', where you start flipping on by default a lot of functionality the user didn't explicitly request (ala autouse). A default of +perl on mysql I'd view as wrong, for example. ~harring pgpN7SaPBH5xd.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Local USE defaults
On Thursday 18 August 2005 12:31 pm, Brian Harring wrote: > On Thu, Aug 18, 2005 at 09:08:51AM -0700, Donnie Berkholz wrote: > > Brian Harring wrote: > > | Kind of curious about people's opinion on the IUSE default use flag > > | thing, initial syntax was (using the above example) > > | IUSE="+client server" > > | with client defaulting to on unless the user's config disables it- > > | note, strictly enabling from IUSE, no auto-negation. > > | I forgot to add this, but it's a 10 line change if people still view > > | it as worthwhile. add it like yesterday ! > > Yes, very. Saves us from hacky local USE flag handling by naming them > > no* or adding them to profiles. > > Which then raises the question of whether or not -* in a users USE > should disable it. > I say no, since -* is mainly for killing off auto-use crap and > profiles. doesnt matter to me one way or the other ... may be confusing to users though who do `USE=-* emerge blah -pv` and see flags enabled -mike -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Local USE defaults
Brian Harring wrote: On Thu, Aug 18, 2005 at 09:08:51AM -0700, Donnie Berkholz wrote: Brian Harring wrote: | Kind of curious about people's opinion on the IUSE default use flag | thing, initial syntax was (using the above example) | IUSE="+client server" | with client defaulting to on unless the user's config disables it- | note, strictly enabling from IUSE, no auto-negation. | I forgot to add this, but it's a 10 line change if people still view | it as worthwhile. Yes, very. Saves us from hacky local USE flag handling by naming them no* or adding them to profiles. Which then raises the question of whether or not -* in a users USE should disable it. I say no, since -* is mainly for killing off auto-use crap and profiles. As long as there is a way provided disable the 'default use flags' in this case referring to the IUSE="+foo" stuff, with a big warning that says crap generally isn't expected to work great with that setting on, then thats fine. I can see something like a profile setting for this, since embedded may not want the same IUSE defaults as AMD64 multilib...this also saves the profiles from becoming huge with "Hi turn this default flag off, and that flag off, and this flag on..." crud. IMHO, it's really more of a profile setting anyhow, than a ebuild setting, although ebuilds could provide sensable defaults ( once again, making profiles smaller and less work for profile maintainers that don't deviate from the default much. In any case both situations scream "hi I need tools cause I'm horribly complex and difficult to maintain properly". -Alec Warner -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Local USE defaults
On Thu, Aug 18, 2005 at 09:08:51AM -0700, Donnie Berkholz wrote: > Brian Harring wrote: > | Kind of curious about people's opinion on the IUSE default use flag > | thing, initial syntax was (using the above example) > | IUSE="+client server" > | with client defaulting to on unless the user's config disables it- > | note, strictly enabling from IUSE, no auto-negation. > | I forgot to add this, but it's a 10 line change if people still view > | it as worthwhile. > > Yes, very. Saves us from hacky local USE flag handling by naming them > no* or adding them to profiles. Which then raises the question of whether or not -* in a users USE should disable it. I say no, since -* is mainly for killing off auto-use crap and profiles. Note that explicitly disabling a flag (-client fex) would disable the default use there; question is whether or not some form of -* should exist for default IUSE; the existing -* is profile/autouse specific, and sholdn't be reused for disabling default IUSE imo. yay/nay? ~harring pgprwD3lYljfK.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Local USE defaults
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Brian Harring wrote: | Kind of curious about people's opinion on the IUSE default use flag | thing, initial syntax was (using the above example) | IUSE="+client server" | with client defaulting to on unless the user's config disables it- | note, strictly enabling from IUSE, no auto-negation. | I forgot to add this, but it's a 10 line change if people still view | it as worthwhile. Yes, very. Saves us from hacky local USE flag handling by naming them no* or adding them to profiles. Thanks, Donnie -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFDBLKTXVaO67S1rtsRAn5/AKCFdjpgmYOifvCOQ/zdRcwaN3S0cACgpuQq y9G8JE3AF+J9AtMDFEYK74s= =NbD3 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
