Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: EAPI 4 deprecated ban
On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 10:09 PM, Raymond Jennings shent...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 6:16 PM, Ian Stakenvicius a...@gentoo.org wrote: Finally, the gentoo developer quiz -should- still contain questions about ancient stuff. There are still EAPI0 and EAPI2 ebuilds in the tree at least. Why not deprecate those before we deprecate EAPI4? They are deprecated already: https://gitweb.gentoo.org/repo/gentoo.git/tree/metadata/layout.conf Deprecated means stop adding them, and move away from them. Repoman will give you a warning about them. -- Rich
Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: EAPI 4 deprecated ban
On 8/16/15 3:29 PM, Rich Freeman wrote: They are deprecated already: https://gitweb.gentoo.org/repo/gentoo.git/tree/metadata/layout.conf Deprecated means stop adding them, and move away from them. Repoman will give you a warning about them. Is anything blocking deprecating EAPI4 in the same way? Paweł signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: EAPI 4 deprecated ban
On Sun, Aug 16, 2015 at 9:47 AM, Paweł Hajdan, Jr. phajdan...@gentoo.org wrote: On 8/16/15 3:29 PM, Rich Freeman wrote: They are deprecated already: https://gitweb.gentoo.org/repo/gentoo.git/tree/metadata/layout.conf Deprecated means stop adding them, and move away from them. Repoman will give you a warning about them. Is anything blocking deprecating EAPI4 in the same way? Not that I'm aware of, and it is probably something worth discussing at this point. Moving to EAPI5 has some user-visible improvement for many packages, like slot-operator dependencies. EAPI6 will also have a user-visible improvement in forced support for user-patching for all ebuilds (any ebuild can support user-patches now, but it isn't mandatory). So, more than in the past it is useful to nudge devs along to the most recent EAPIs (in the past they've been more about maintainability and less user-visible). -- Rich
Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: EAPI 4 deprecated ban
What's the best way to get rid of deprecated ebuilds? Do we just wait for their maintainers to migrate them or should they be sought out and flagged? I'm pondering searching for EAPI 0 ebuilds and filing bug reports on them. On Sun, Aug 16, 2015 at 6:57 AM, Rich Freeman ri...@gentoo.org wrote: On Sun, Aug 16, 2015 at 9:47 AM, Paweł Hajdan, Jr. phajdan...@gentoo.org wrote: On 8/16/15 3:29 PM, Rich Freeman wrote: They are deprecated already: https://gitweb.gentoo.org/repo/gentoo.git/tree/metadata/layout.conf Deprecated means stop adding them, and move away from them. Repoman will give you a warning about them. Is anything blocking deprecating EAPI4 in the same way? Not that I'm aware of, and it is probably something worth discussing at this point. Moving to EAPI5 has some user-visible improvement for many packages, like slot-operator dependencies. EAPI6 will also have a user-visible improvement in forced support for user-patching for all ebuilds (any ebuild can support user-patches now, but it isn't mandatory). So, more than in the past it is useful to nudge devs along to the most recent EAPIs (in the past they've been more about maintainability and less user-visible). -- Rich
Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: EAPI 4 deprecated ban
On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 09:52:06 -0700 Raymond Jennings shent...@gmail.com wrote: What's the best way to get rid of deprecated ebuilds? Do we just wait for their maintainers to migrate them or should they be sought out and flagged? I'm pondering searching for EAPI 0 ebuilds and filing bug reports on them. mrueg has made an effort to identify these. http://dev.gentoo.org/~mrueg/eapi/ He periodically pesters Java team, who are the worst offenders. We've been concentrating on EAPI 1 because that is the one that is closest to being closed out. It's admittedly not our highest priority though and I'd prefer that you didn't file bugs. It's not like we're unaware of them. -- James Le Cuirot (chewi) Gentoo Linux Developer pgpLKnlfCCDKL.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: EAPI 4 deprecated ban
On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 6:16 PM, Ian Stakenvicius a...@gentoo.org wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 14/08/15 06:43 PM, Johannes Huber wrote: Am 08/15/15 um 00:19 schrieb Andrew Savchenko: Hi, While I have no objections about EAPI 4 deprecation (except concerns mentioned above), I see no strong need for this also. Just declare EAPI 5 as recommended. Having legacy support for EAPI 4 will not hurt possible contributions. Just imagine that the Gentoo developer quiz doesn't contain question about ancient stuff. Would reduce the question count at least by some questions. Which could lower the barrier to step forward for some people. Or do we have enough developers? Best regards, Andrew Savchenko So first of all, yes i believe all eclasses support EAPI5 by now. Secondly, though, conversion to EAPI5 is not actually trivial, there are a couple of things, 'usex' related for instance, that also need to be taken care of. If it was just a matter of running a sed -e 's/^EAPI=4/EAPI=5/' on all in-tree ebuilds this would have been done a long time ago. So although deprecation of EAPI4 is a nice thought, there is still some work to be done. Finally, the gentoo developer quiz -should- still contain questions about ancient stuff. There are still EAPI0 and EAPI2 ebuilds in the tree at least. Why not deprecate those before we deprecate EAPI4? Just my opinion here but I think that we'd do better deprecating the oldest versions one at a time until they're all upgraded to the newest stuff. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2 iF4EAREIAAYFAlXOkvMACgkQAJxUfCtlWe1VkQD/cBeJW7Go12EkpSDL86MGzcNJ nHOBBHkdH9iQPCNfeo0BAO3v6rs7FHEIeJ7ze+JDFGqvJcZbsdcXZafRZaqbpwLE =bh9T -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: EAPI 4 deprecated ban
On Sat, 15 Aug 2015, Paweł Hajdan, wrote: Nothing seems to prevent doing the mass conversion first, deprecating EAPI 4, and then having a second, slower pass to make sure the ebuilds are using EAPI 5 as they should be. One way might be to add a TODO comment during mass conversion, which then can be grepped for (and removed after manual review). How about a line like EAPI=4 which can be grepped for? :) Seriously, what would be the benefit of a conversion if you need a second pass to redo it properly? Also there are still some 5000 ebuilds (14 %) with EAPIs 0, 1, 2, and 3 in the tree. IMHO it would be better to spend our effort in updating those first. Ulrich pgpD1UHIEhx11.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: EAPI 4 deprecated ban
Dnia 2015-08-15, o godz. 09:06:48 Ulrich Mueller u...@gentoo.org napisał(a): On Sat, 15 Aug 2015, Paweł Hajdan, wrote: Nothing seems to prevent doing the mass conversion first, deprecating EAPI 4, and then having a second, slower pass to make sure the ebuilds are using EAPI 5 as they should be. One way might be to add a TODO comment during mass conversion, which then can be grepped for (and removed after manual review). How about a line like EAPI=4 which can be grepped for? :) Seriously, what would be the benefit of a conversion if you need a second pass to redo it properly? Also there are still some 5000 ebuilds (14 %) with EAPIs 0, 1, 2, and 3 in the tree. IMHO it would be better to spend our effort in updating those first. First, we'd use a tool which would tell us precisely which old ebuild versions can really be removed. Like 'eshowkw' but also grepping other ebuilds for dependencies that can not be satisfied by newer versions. -- Best regards, Michał Górny http://dev.gentoo.org/~mgorny/ pgphJ0IdZbN2X.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: EAPI 4 deprecated ban
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 08/14/2015 03:05 PM, Johannes Huber wrote: Hello Gentoos Penguins, if we want to attract more contributors we should consider to have one supported EAPI (latest). EAPI 4 is the last not marked as deprecated ( EAPI 5). The move in ebuilds from EAPI 4 to EAPI 5 is very simple replacing the declaration. As we have now git in place we could easily do this with one commit (awesome). So please discuss this to get it ready for decision on next council meeting. Have fun, I think it's a good idea, but as others in this conversation have indicated, it's not exactly a quick sed script. I'd rather see a reporting tool that can scan the tree and expose which packages (latest stable and latest ~arch only) are still on EAPI 5. That way, developers would understand *where* the attention would be (cat/pkg-ver) and *what* work would need to be done (EAPI 3 - 5, for example). As a bonus, it could accept an argument as its less than search. so `eapi-report 6` would show all packages with an EAPI under 6. That case isn't useful *now*, but it would be going forward and still meets the needs of understanding what and where work needs to be done. I have a 10 day work week coming up soon so I can't work on it immediately, but I wouldn't mind assisting in the creation of this tool. - -- Daniel Campbell - Gentoo Developer OpenPGP Key: 0x1EA055D6 @ hkp://keys.gnupg.net fpr: AE03 9064 AE00 053C 270C 1DE4 6F7A 9091 1EA0 55D6 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJVzudxAAoJEAEkDpRQOeFwEYsP/iCKVEAWgatC5k4crLEGnmRb 1e29e2RTWTuuQ9OPCNfJK017uFiky7psgFey/0TOB6c0E3onnVwJYIt452tkcI/C y91CfCPB5dAKhz0VG62WTbnUxKszRKgfBYVSd6a5aTfrQuchnmbGuirB+N4rc1Mh usJs2IrhDy8CHMe3P3hCXQ8DE/hGfTt05+ljoLM4pBiouoz2Zlda37uCJHsjkSYu L20imAu/u/w+DHuzmBQlhi7WLFEBaNXe/yck1w3/s4/UYOBOa/mSQ88ao1UfIZ08 QkFjpcnGOs20apVzv4lu/sgJ7GNSS92G5hsS5161TZF/wp+bBqD87vciHlkbANtN UIvQVxzUSKvNflmdmP1NqWKHXszuMQKSzMiBq19fgPd8t72ZwrOe5g2Pcp8lykov GDveUUGN3mqXRilO+RzbqXoQXgNEUxZAS5TzN1+fUNBQj4qajPDVVY1vgWkCA6bA mqF+l5jrbMBc6TmPja6sj8kcoIPRiAYMgmAdtZI5/MV4cIDFAbyJuSWbwcKw8WRz EkirDtqtWzyg1aKAKK9GAZiKlyBxPT/nzCayuyBmTxj0rABwkcOmb1LUIS5HR5kx EW1z/8GUTfIIc1aN/qI/GOiGrZa2H3BVYG3rdJEhjTE4UP8wUwgS3idZ0uKDSMES PLSfQooYoh1onIdfcABs =J28V -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: EAPI 4 deprecated ban
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Am 08/15/15 um 07:35 schrieb Michał Górny: This is a cheap hack, not a conversion. Proper conversion to a new EAPI is about using the new EAPI features. Not marking it 'done', and pretending there's nothing more to do. Yeah you are right. I rephrase, let's deprecate it. - -- Johannes Huber (johu) Gentoo Linux Developer / KDE Team GPG Key ID FDF4F788 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.1 iQJ8BAEBCgBmBQJVzwTpXxSAAC4AKGlzc3Vlci1mcHJAbm90YXRpb25zLm9w ZW5wZ3AuZmlmdGhob3JzZW1hbi5uZXQ0N0Y0MTczMjZGRTRGODM5M0MzOTU4RDAy OTU0NDVDRUY5MDcyRDJGAAoJEClURc75By0vNhAQAIB1BX3mTI2r2PMR2MG+8kKq mrWgp2321qdJgcsMl7cJUb5QC4nukVLrkQW1IJ7JpGA37B2/xzcS1Kmonu2XaYX+ YGQuSqA4/jn2t5EZogtxs+ld8X9jpcnFPD8xNqW6WhbOGeinBQURli+cR2UMUJbs HZohDF7KhithrJE6sWyFiSxYhwNnXKmkCJY3zJSy0B+n+3P6URDlRhGM/uGktxj/ TBIeavRmzOoS/QhsU9ytRhh1SDk8JnEEs3EvORPSIyzRpwugXLMzKw6rzqzRZ0RN PgfwYA/Sp4Rc6tFg7D/0w7cD1DsTwVoD20OdDB3rV/N+PVwCXLUCF8xyZMuqcRpv zgWCn8ezU+dmPYG80rebUqg/MsGR4h3dr4a8QzQG/HdqIDnYtxD/V6yw/VoFaAmN sCSOX9o3ix8GOmwKelzGTGxcwusqBYuAYaW5QjnKExwJ0NxW1N19B0RsrxjmACBn MN2wMn61WLDPoqfje98LIpaBPNAKnS+if1Hp9xvs5KNAKipf2IOS2MPvialdMpUs RcKKdDwdhpZLn2x0Rjhd3GqMmjiaxz/iBGJ7r1XtIt7YgeauxAs4T/XG0EAPYiHP OyB/w8XmSMQw9WTiSLlP8BxnzKm+SV6D2YnBKsa0ZgMaVJSsmB9v14Bm9POyJW0R 46FcWy19AlYBX74Ai6Rz =kvNL -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: EAPI 4 deprecated ban
On Sat, 15 Aug 2015 08:12:42 +0200 Paweł Hajdan, Jr. wrote: On 8/15/15 3:16 AM, Ian Stakenvicius wrote: Secondly, though, conversion to EAPI5 is not actually trivial, there are a couple of things, 'usex' related for instance, that also need to be taken care of. If it was just a matter of running a sed -e 's/^EAPI=4/EAPI=5/' on all in-tree ebuilds this would have been done a long time ago. Do you mean that it would break things or just while technically working the ebuilds mass converted in this way would not take advantage of EAPI5 features such use 'usex'? Another issue: EAPI change normally requires revision bump. Revision bump for stable packages will require stabilization request in most cases (e.g. if all current stable versions are EAPI 5). Stabilization request often take ages. Best regards, Andrew Savchenko pgpxsQtXPg0eB.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: EAPI 4 deprecated ban
On 8/15/15 3:16 AM, Ian Stakenvicius wrote: Secondly, though, conversion to EAPI5 is not actually trivial, there are a couple of things, 'usex' related for instance, that also need to be taken care of. If it was just a matter of running a sed -e 's/^EAPI=4/EAPI=5/' on all in-tree ebuilds this would have been done a long time ago. Do you mean that it would break things or just while technically working the ebuilds mass converted in this way would not take advantage of EAPI5 features such use 'usex'? mgorny@ mentioned the latter in another post, and I think we can address that e.g. by adding TODO comments to each ebuild converted this way for a manual review later. If you think this can actually break things, could you explain more? Finally, the gentoo developer quiz -should- still contain questions about ancient stuff. There are still EAPI0 and EAPI2 ebuilds in the tree at least. EAPI0 can be tricky, but why don't we deprecate EAPI2? Paweł signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: EAPI 4 deprecated ban
On 8/15/15 7:35 AM, Michał Górny wrote: Dnia 2015-08-15, o godz. 00:05:57 Johannes Huber j...@gentoo.org napisał(a): if we want to attract more contributors we should consider to have one supported EAPI (latest). EAPI 4 is the last not marked as deprecated ( EAPI 5). The move in ebuilds from EAPI 4 to EAPI 5 is very simple replacing the declaration. As we have now git in place we could easily do this with one commit (awesome). This is a cheap hack, not a conversion. Proper conversion to a new EAPI is about using the new EAPI features. Not marking it 'done', and pretending there's nothing more to do. Good point. My understanding here it's more about deprecating EAPI 4 which we wouldn't be able to do without moving to a newer EAPI. Also note that even when writing from scratch, it's not guaranteed that the developer will use all relevant EAPI 5 features. Nothing seems to prevent doing the mass conversion first, deprecating EAPI 4, and then having a second, slower pass to make sure the ebuilds are using EAPI 5 as they should be. One way might be to add a TODO comment during mass conversion, which then can be grepped for (and removed after manual review). Paweł signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: EAPI 4 deprecated ban
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256
On 15/08/15 02:48 AM, Andrew Savchenko wrote:
On Sat, 15 Aug 2015 08:12:42 +0200 Paweł Hajdan, Jr. wrote:
On 8/15/15 3:16 AM, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
Secondly, though, conversion to EAPI5 is not actually
trivial, there are a couple of things, 'usex' related for
instance, that also need to be taken care of. If it was just
a matter of running a sed -e 's/^EAPI=4/EAPI=5/' on all
in-tree ebuilds this would have been done a long time ago.
Do you mean that it would break things or just while
technically working the ebuilds mass converted in this way
would not take advantage of EAPI5 features such use 'usex'?
Another issue: EAPI change normally requires revision bump.
Revision bump for stable packages will require stabilization
request in most cases (e.g. if all current stable versions are
EAPI 5). Stabilization request often take ages.
I don't think that one's actually true in the general case.
EAPI5 conversions needed revbumps because the addition of subslots
or slot operators to dependencies requires a revbump (and EAPI5 adds
default :${SLOT}/${SLOT} to all deps in VDB for portage at least)
That said, it is another reason in this particular case, thanks!
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Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: EAPI 4 deprecated ban
Hi, On Sat, 15 Aug 2015 00:05:57 +0200 Johannes Huber wrote: if we want to attract more contributors we should consider to have one supported EAPI (latest). EAPI 4 is the last not marked as deprecated ( EAPI 5). The move in ebuilds from EAPI 4 to EAPI 5 is very simple replacing the declaration. As we have now git in place we could easily do this with one commit (awesome). So please discuss this to get it ready for decision on next council meeting. Are all eclasses ready for this transition? I remember time when there were issues with python still demanding EAPI 4, while EAPI 5 in tree. This is no longer issue these days, but we hay have similar issues with other eclasses. What about compatibility with overlays? What if EAPI 4 ban will hurt them (e.g. if relevant code will be dropped from eclasses). While I have no objections about EAPI 4 deprecation (except concerns mentioned above), I see no strong need for this also. Just declare EAPI 5 as recommended. Having legacy support for EAPI 4 will not hurt possible contributions. Best regards, Andrew Savchenko pgph90LrJq9yy.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: EAPI 4 deprecated ban
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Am 08/15/15 um 00:19 schrieb Andrew Savchenko: Hi, While I have no objections about EAPI 4 deprecation (except concerns mentioned above), I see no strong need for this also. Just declare EAPI 5 as recommended. Having legacy support for EAPI 4 will not hurt possible contributions. Just imagine that the Gentoo developer quiz doesn't contain question about ancient stuff. Would reduce the question count at least by some questions. Which could lower the barrier to step forward for some people. Or do we have enough developers? Best regards, Andrew Savchenko - -- Johannes Huber (johu) Gentoo Linux Developer / KDE Team GPG Key ID FDF4F788 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.1 iQJ8BAEBCgBmBQJVzm8SXxSAAC4AKGlzc3Vlci1mcHJAbm90YXRpb25zLm9w ZW5wZ3AuZmlmdGhob3JzZW1hbi5uZXQ0N0Y0MTczMjZGRTRGODM5M0MzOTU4RDAy OTU0NDVDRUY5MDcyRDJGAAoJEClURc75By0vDeQQAI4BzX23qVATMaodkVFaxmHr 7qeXL+41nL6F36/q12v7ciIqhnooabC93z7xDQ8NBUac91k+L/UiVbEaJ2Y4EWPo i3cV86uNR8McjB4WBpmUxWoSRhYP2eEL6vdEosadKeaSK24CjUU6x+4Q3QEdbSK+ qqkJElsrKgxaoIee6I2rL+/TQSBL2afUGpb2aShFzXEN+EkLgLrLux/eDK6er5Tw p6OFYYes+IU9G9jW+M9kjjkRbr0SdSfzP4lCBRcncbPuRAxVeUwP5GQbELfDj8ar ofAm38yJh8JWlJ5uJJobRs1ndw/DTHWrBgMi92LZk0SHH1aws/oIodx4QsXpeFlQ gDMF2DV4PPMKxwSKRNPEppgVzcLHyJuC4TDReBo33utySw1wkWPiclephFl05H+d 1Jq8NlR9XX/ietsydWGxgIm/Of5ahT6Hc1T7NM7TfbM8LmmrnllLTXKSW1ClOua/ j5/DKagD6gOr4vjqJFSbD4l+m1hLh1hJai8dJIYM6seK9Z31KEZqIhuf8T5UDHP2 jIQdVKkfcw0om/HpTAS+yYAd3LlioZeQCYy6unZpJ+PTuWbROAmNBcghgvu+OmHy kfhJ7AihHbR9Kqu4rG7gtekBPenqAXuO82ypAAZzIgsZ7rbItsAPslzDkNIspRXv NqHhSZAcAxH2WQoxfW5r =Q5X5 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: EAPI 4 deprecated ban
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 14/08/15 06:43 PM, Johannes Huber wrote: Am 08/15/15 um 00:19 schrieb Andrew Savchenko: Hi, While I have no objections about EAPI 4 deprecation (except concerns mentioned above), I see no strong need for this also. Just declare EAPI 5 as recommended. Having legacy support for EAPI 4 will not hurt possible contributions. Just imagine that the Gentoo developer quiz doesn't contain question about ancient stuff. Would reduce the question count at least by some questions. Which could lower the barrier to step forward for some people. Or do we have enough developers? Best regards, Andrew Savchenko So first of all, yes i believe all eclasses support EAPI5 by now. Secondly, though, conversion to EAPI5 is not actually trivial, there are a couple of things, 'usex' related for instance, that also need to be taken care of. If it was just a matter of running a sed -e 's/^EAPI=4/EAPI=5/' on all in-tree ebuilds this would have been done a long time ago. So although deprecation of EAPI4 is a nice thought, there is still some work to be done. Finally, the gentoo developer quiz -should- still contain questions about ancient stuff. There are still EAPI0 and EAPI2 ebuilds in the tree at least. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2 iF4EAREIAAYFAlXOkvMACgkQAJxUfCtlWe1VkQD/cBeJW7Go12EkpSDL86MGzcNJ nHOBBHkdH9iQPCNfeo0BAO3v6rs7FHEIeJ7ze+JDFGqvJcZbsdcXZafRZaqbpwLE =bh9T -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: EAPI 4 deprecated ban
Dnia 2015-08-15, o godz. 00:05:57 Johannes Huber j...@gentoo.org napisał(a): -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Hello Gentoos Penguins, if we want to attract more contributors we should consider to have one supported EAPI (latest). EAPI 4 is the last not marked as deprecated ( EAPI 5). The move in ebuilds from EAPI 4 to EAPI 5 is very simple replacing the declaration. As we have now git in place we could easily do this with one commit (awesome). This is a cheap hack, not a conversion. Proper conversion to a new EAPI is about using the new EAPI features. Not marking it 'done', and pretending there's nothing more to do. -- Best regards, Michał Górny http://dev.gentoo.org/~mgorny/ pgprSZMxFHxll.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
