Re: [gentoo-user] Looking up... Connecting... Waiting... Transferring
I noticed that if I'm doing a lot of clicking around there is pretty much no time spent with either of those, but if I work on something and then come back to the browser after a bit, Firefox can really spend some time there. Could be anything. Maybe Firefox is caching stuff , maybe it isn't. Maybe your machine swaps a lot and it take awhile to swap back in. Sounds like you are worry needlessly about a few seconds difference. A few seconds can easily be the difference between a customer spending enough time on my site to find something they want to buy, and not. When I click on a search results link, I'll hit stop and try another link if the page takes a few seconds too long to load. It just seems silly to work on speeding up my server's execution time, and even make sacrifices for greater speed, until I can get a page to serve in 1 second instead of 4, and then realize I'm sometimes waiting as long as 10 seconds before my code is even executed. - Grant -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Looking up... Connecting... Waiting... Transferring
On Mon, 21 Feb 2005, Grant wrote: A few seconds can easily be the difference between a customer spending enough time on my site to find something they want to buy, and not. When I click on a search results link, I'll hit stop and try another link if the page takes a few seconds too long to load. That might be true for YOU but not necessarily for everyone else. It just seems silly to work on speeding up my server's execution time, and even make sacrifices for greater speed, until I can get a page to serve in 1 second instead of 4, and then realize I'm sometimes waiting as long as 10 seconds before my code is even executed. To really say oh its a server issue you need to test from different places through different Internet access methods. Dont assume it is slow just because it is from YOUR computer. -- -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Looking up... Connecting... Waiting... Transferring
A few seconds can easily be the difference between a customer spending enough time on my site to find something they want to buy, and not. When I click on a search results link, I'll hit stop and try another link if the page takes a few seconds too long to load. That might be true for YOU but not necessarily for everyone else. If it's true for me, it's almost definitely true for others, and that's a problem. It doesn't need to be true for everyone else to be a problem. It just seems silly to work on speeding up my server's execution time, and even make sacrifices for greater speed, until I can get a page to serve in 1 second instead of 4, and then realize I'm sometimes waiting as long as 10 seconds before my code is even executed. To really say oh its a server issue you need to test from different places through different Internet access methods. Dont assume it is slow just because it is from YOUR computer. I'm not necessarily saying it's a server problem. I'm trying to figure out if it's a fixable problem. - Grant -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Looking up... Connecting... Waiting... Transferring
On Mon, Feb 21, 2005 at 12:37:44PM -0800, Grant wrote: That might be true for YOU but not necessarily for everyone else. If it's true for me, it's almost definitely true for others, and that's a problem. It doesn't need to be true for everyone else to be a problem. Mind giving us a URL so we can DOS^H^H^Hhelp figure it out for you? -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Looking up... Connecting... Waiting... Transferring
That might be true for YOU but not necessarily for everyone else. If it's true for me, it's almost definitely true for others, and that's a problem. It doesn't need to be true for everyone else to be a problem. Mind giving us a URL so we can DOS^H^H^Hhelp figure it out for you? No thanks Mr. Dos, but that's a really nice offer. - Grant -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Looking up... Connecting... Waiting... Transferring
Grant wrote: I've been optimizing my site's performance by tuning the server-side code and watching how it affects the amount of time Firefox reports as Waiting. It seems like the Transferring time would be optimized by reducing the size of the HTML to download. What about Looking up and Connecting? I noticed that if I'm doing a lot of clicking around there is pretty much no time spent with either of those, but if I work on something and then come back to the browser after a bit, Firefox can really spend some time there. I'd imagine that is apache's area. What can I do to minimize the time needed to look up and connect? I'm wondering how you're getting any sort of concrete numbers out of anything. If you're eyeballing Firefox and going by feel it's going to be hard for you see where the problem is or if there is one. If it were me, I'd do something like the following: 1. Add a time to render page into your test page. I normally see this in php pages, but assume it's not hard to do. This should give you some sort of idea of how complicated the page was to put together o the server side. 2. use curl or other command line tool to pull the page. preferably using the time command. Do this and write times to a file every 30 seconds. 3. Write a script to check server load and record it to a file every 30 secs. 4. send 10 pings or so to the server from the client and record times to a file every 30 secs When you can compare server load to time for the server to render page to time to download the page to ping times you will have interesting data. Otherwise you have no idea if it's the connection, the server or the client. I'm not sure how well most of the what I listed would work in actually implementation, but the idea of getting things put into tools that you can measure in milliseconds is never bad. kashani -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Looking up... Connecting... Waiting... Transferring
I've been optimizing my site's performance by tuning the server-side code and watching how it affects the amount of time Firefox reports as Waiting. It seems like the Transferring time would be optimized by reducing the size of the HTML to download. What about Looking up and Connecting? I noticed that if I'm doing a lot of clicking around there is pretty much no time spent with either of those, but if I work on something and then come back to the browser after a bit, Firefox can really spend some time there. I'd imagine that is apache's area. What can I do to minimize the time needed to look up and connect? - Grant -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Looking up... Connecting... Waiting... Transferring
The time needed to lookup is probably spend running a DNS lookup , I doubt changes to your apache can affect this in any way. There is always a latency associated with the network ( especially on a non-LAN ) , so don't try to get it faster that light :) For example , measure the ping round-trip time to the dns and to the server. You probably can't get any faster than the sum of the two times. On Sun, 2005-02-20 at 10:03 -0800, Grant wrote: I've been optimizing my site's performance by tuning the server-side code and watching how it affects the amount of time Firefox reports as Waiting. It seems like the Transferring time would be optimized by reducing the size of the HTML to download. What about Looking up and Connecting? I noticed that if I'm doing a lot of clicking around there is pretty much no time spent with either of those, but if I work on something and then come back to the browser after a bit, Firefox can really spend some time there. I'd imagine that is apache's area. What can I do to minimize the time needed to look up and connect? - Grant -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- Ivan Yosifov. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Looking up... Connecting... Waiting... Transferring
The time needed to lookup is probably spend running a DNS lookup , I doubt changes to your apache can affect this in any way. There is always a latency associated with the network ( especially on a non-LAN ) , so don't try to get it faster that light :) For example , measure the ping round-trip time to the dns and to the server. You probably can't get any faster than the sum of the two times. What about the fact that the DNS lookup takes much longer if I haven't clicked on anything for a little bit? Is that because of some type of DNS caching in the browser? Could this have anything to do with my site's DNS server's performance? - Grant -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Looking up... Connecting... Waiting... Transferring
It could have to with a lot of stuff. It is possible that FF has some DNS cache that gets flushed , it also almost certain ( don't trust me, my ISP has, I guess it is common :) ) that your ISP has a DNS cache and it is possible that other users queries have flushed yours. You can ask mozilla-devs and your ISP , however this won't help for users of other ISPs and other browsers :) You are tweaking the server , right ? So , place a machine as close to it as possible ( put a second lan-card in the server , and connect the two machines) , alias the server in /etc/hosts so no DNS lookup is done and benchmark this setup. I think such a setup minimizes random network factors , so a latency is almost sure to be in the server and not *OUT THERE* :) Just my 2c. On Sun, 2005-02-20 at 10:39 -0800, Grant wrote: The time needed to lookup is probably spend running a DNS lookup , I doubt changes to your apache can affect this in any way. There is always a latency associated with the network ( especially on a non-LAN ) , so don't try to get it faster that light :) For example , measure the ping round-trip time to the dns and to the server. You probably can't get any faster than the sum of the two times. What about the fact that the DNS lookup takes much longer if I haven't clicked on anything for a little bit? Is that because of some type of DNS caching in the browser? Could this have anything to do with my site's DNS server's performance? - Grant -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- Ivan Yosifov. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Looking up... Connecting... Waiting... Transferring
On Sunday 20 February 2005 10:39, Grant wrote: The time needed to lookup is probably spend running a DNS lookup , I doubt changes to your apache can affect this in any way. There is always a latency associated with the network ( especially on a non-LAN ) , so don't try to get it faster that light :) For example , measure the ping round-trip time to the dns and to the server. You probably can't get any faster than the sum of the two times. What about the fact that the DNS lookup takes much longer if I haven't clicked on anything for a little bit? Is that because of some type of DNS caching in the browser? Probably. Could this have anything to do with my site's DNS server's performance? Probably not. -- t3h 3l3ctr0n3rd [EMAIL PROTECTED] Supermarket Deli Clerk and Student Programmer OpenPGP Key Fingerprint: 0A65 EEFA B23A F0AC E6C2 C71C BEA0 E055 BE0E EC25 pgpxS1jfZEW4i.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Looking up... Connecting... Waiting... Transferring
It could have to with a lot of stuff. It is possible that FF has some DNS cache that gets flushed , it also almost certain ( don't trust me, my ISP has, I guess it is common :) ) that your ISP has a DNS cache and it is possible that other users queries have flushed yours. You can ask mozilla-devs and your ISP , however this won't help for users of other ISPs and other browsers :) You are tweaking the server , right ? So , place a machine as close to it as possible ( put a second lan-card in the server , and connect the two machines) , alias the server in /etc/hosts so no DNS lookup is done and benchmark this setup. I think such a setup minimizes random network factors , so a latency is almost sure to be in the server and not *OUT THERE* :) Just my 2c. The server is actually hosted remotely, I should have mentioned that. After a little more experimentation, both my website and my host's website have this same behavior of responding right away during a continuous Firefox browsing session, but taking a long time to look up after a break. cnn.com responds right away, even after a break. It sounds like I need to contact my host. Could this be an issue with their DNS server? - Grant -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Looking up... Connecting... Waiting... Transferring
It could have to with a lot of stuff. It is possible that FF has some DNS cache that gets flushed , it also almost certain ( don't trust me, my ISP has, I guess it is common :) ) that your ISP has a DNS cache and it is possible that other users queries have flushed yours. You can ask mozilla-devs and your ISP , however this won't help for users of other ISPs and other browsers :) You are tweaking the server , right ? So , place a machine as close to it as possible ( put a second lan-card in the server , and connect the two machines) , alias the server in /etc/hosts so no DNS lookup is done and benchmark this setup. I think such a setup minimizes random network factors , so a latency is almost sure to be in the server and not *OUT THERE* :) Just my 2c. On Sun, 2005-02-20 at 10:39 -0800, Grant wrote: The time needed to lookup is probably spend running a DNS lookup , I doubt changes to your apache can affect this in any way. There is always a latency associated with the network ( especially on a non-LAN ) , so don't try to get it faster that light :) For example , measure the ping round-trip time to the dns and to the server. You probably can't get any faster than the sum of the two times. Does anyone know what the Connecting stage is? That sometimes takes a while too. - Grant -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Looking up... Connecting... Waiting... Transferring
Grant ha scritto: It could have to with a lot of stuff. It is possible that FF has some DNS cache that gets flushed , it also almost certain ( don't trust me, my ISP has, I guess it is common :) ) that your ISP has a DNS cache and it is possible that other users queries have flushed yours. You can ask mozilla-devs and your ISP , however this won't help for users of other ISPs and other browsers :) You are tweaking the server , right ? So , place a machine as close to it as possible ( put a second lan-card in the server , and connect the two machines) , alias the server in /etc/hosts so no DNS lookup is done and benchmark this setup. I think such a setup minimizes random network factors , so a latency is almost sure to be in the server and not *OUT THERE* :) Just my 2c. The server is actually hosted remotely, I should have mentioned that. After a little more experimentation, both my website and my host's website have this same behavior of responding right away during a continuous Firefox browsing session, but taking a long time to look up after a break. cnn.com responds right away, even after a break. It sounds like I need to contact my host. Could this be an issue with their DNS server? - Grant try # tracepath www.your.server # ping -c5 www.your.server while browsing and after a while. If the results are the same it's a dns problem (it's not counted in connection timings) if not there must be some keepalive stuff that make you faster when browsing. Francesco -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Looking up... Connecting... Waiting... Transferring
On Sun, 20 Feb 2005, Grant wrote: I noticed that if I'm doing a lot of clicking around there is pretty much no time spent with either of those, but if I work on something and then come back to the browser after a bit, Firefox can really spend some time there. Could be anything. Maybe Firefox is caching stuff , maybe it isn't. Maybe your machine swaps a lot and it take awhile to swap back in. Sounds like you are worry needlessly about a few seconds difference. I'd imagine that is apache's area. What can I do to minimize the time needed to look up and connect? sigh Do yourself a favor and install a caching DNS server on your machine, put nameserver 127.0.0.1 in /etc/resolv.conf and be happy with faster DNS lookups. There is probably nothing wrong with your ISP's DNS server. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
