Re: [gentoo-user] Security
I'm not a professional, but I'd say that running as few services as possible contributes to the overall security be reducing the attack vectors (and Gentoo helps with that by not having that much by default). I usually opt only for ssh and use certificates rather than passwords... On Thu, 2014-03-20 at 22:06 +, john wrote: After recently reading about Windigo I am quesstioning how good my security is on my Gentoo box. I am only a desktop user with iptables and clamav installed and occasionally running chkrootkit. Would you recommend any other forms of security (snort, selinux, hardened etc) that I should be using? I may be a touch neurotic but would hate to think I have been infected!
Re: [gentoo-user] Security
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 21/03/14 17:44, Ján Zahornadský wrote: Indeed, the smaller the surface area, the smaller the target (the fewer things running, the fewer things can be exploited). For an average desktop environment, doing what you're already doing, I think, would be reasonably sufficient - provided it's mixed with a little common sense (don't grant root privileges to things that don't need them; don't use passwords like 'MyPassword'; that sort of thing). Having a personal firewall is already probably more than many (albeit non-linux) users do (at least of their own accord). If you wanted to go a little further, you could have a look at `qcheck` (app-portage/portage-utils) or even app-admin/tripwire; maybe set up a few cron jobs that mail root with warnings or something. Otherwise, making sure you don't enable unnecessary services and keeping on top of your firewall, log checks and chkrootkit'ing should be sufficient. If you *do* want to go the whole hog, while I'm no expert on it, using a desktop environment under the hardened profile can provide some challenges, but is indeed doable. Personally I'm currently running thunderbird-bin in a kde environment on a custom hardened/kde profile that I kludged together (this is Gentoo, after all)! Ultimately, it's up to you what you feel is appropriate for what you expected usage and risk level is. For reference: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Hardened Cheers; - -- wraeth -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iF4EAREIAAYFAlMsDZAACgkQGYlqHeQRhkwwaQD/fInm5p4rbnoKH3sDIklJvK2e /Bud0z1N9QvWXRbDvRUA/i+XYipiYjcMHd+NCduj0AHF/slcb9IJxsfgMon3Tf7h =LJ4m -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-user] Security
140320 john wrote: After recently reading about Windigo, I am quesstioning how good my security is on my Gentoo box. I am only a desktop user with iptables and clamav installed and occasionally running chkrootkit. Would you recommend any other forms of security -- snort, selinux, hardened etc -- that I should be using? I may be a touch neurotic but would hate to think I have been infected! Others mb able to offer more professional advice, but as a desktop user of Gentoo for 10 yr , I'ld say don't worry. I read the Windigo PDF (via LWN) saw no explanation of any weakness in the Linux software : it's very long on all the bad things which can happen, esp to M$ Windows systems, if a server or network gets infected, but it looked as if the only way that could happen on a Linux box wb if someone finds out its root password, ie sysadmin carelessness. HTH -- ,, SUPPORT ___//___, Philip Webb ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto TRANSIT`-O--O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca
Re: [gentoo-user] eix target per dir
140320 James wrote: I often go to /usr/portage/target-dir and browse the packages under a given category, for example /usr/portage/media-sound . Rather that looking at the packages one at a time, It be nice to list all the packages in a (dir) group and the single line description. My notes say : List pkgs w short desc'n : 'eix -Cc cat/egory'; pkgs in category ' FORMAT='name -- description\n' eix -C media-gfx '. -- ,, SUPPORT ___//___, Philip Webb ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto TRANSIT`-O--O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca
Re: [gentoo-user] Kworker use 80% of CPU
Am 20.03.2014 11:24, schrieb Tom Wijsman: On Thu, 20 Mar 2014 11:39:58 +0400 Gleb Klochkov glebiu...@gmail.com wrote: Tom, thank you for your answer. $ dmesg http://bpaste.net/show/187533/ There this can be seen: [ 18.074574] [drm] Wrong MCH_SSKPD value: 0x16040307 [ 18.074575] [drm] This can cause pipe underruns and display issues. [ 18.074575] [drm] Please upgrade your BIOS to fix this. [ 18.148162] [drm] GMBUS [i915 gmbus vga] timed out, falling back to bit banging on pin 2 Above your messages seem interesting; some expected value is wrong, it also times out on a bus and then goes to use a pin instead. Not sure how much of this is intended, but try to upgrade your BIOS as suggested. $ cat /proc/interrupts http://bpaste.net/show/187537/ So, that would be this: 8: 63 0 0 0 IO-APIC-edge rtc0 Hmm, nothing about it in the dmesg; also, 63 seems low (on my system, however, it's only 1 as I think my system uses something different). You can try a different timer using this kernel parameter: clocksource=hpet Another note-worthy thing: 9: 699799454 0 0 0 IO-APIC-fasteoi acpi That there are ~700 million ACPI interrupts seems abnormally high; maybe the count is off by one, and 8 refers to 9? On my system, that's been running for a while by now, it's only at ~6000 (six thousand). uptime 11:29:37 up 49 days, 15:48, 16 users, load average: 0,38, 0,31, 0,39 8: 0 0 0 48 IO-APIC-edge rtc0 9: 0 0 0 0 IO-APIC-fasteoi acpi Changing the ACPI related kernel parameters to try to get it supported differently might be one thing to do here; other than that, it might be something going on with the hardware (try disconnecting things?) so the BIOS upgrade is certainly of interest. Try the BIOS upgrade first, then play around with the parameters; if things don't work out, I suggest you look for support on one of the Linux kernel mailing lists (perhaps acpi-devel*). Good luck. * https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/acpi-devel imho he should first use a recent VANILLA kernel. 2.12 or 2.13. And build a config without all that unneeded garbage. Also increase the dmesg buffer. Most interesting stuff is missing.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On 3/20/2014 5:48 PM, »Q« boxc...@gmx.net wrote: Why should Gentoo have a default? Defaults are always a good idea - as long as they are reasonable and rational. ISTM the only good reason is that not having a default would make the documentation a lot more complicated. Documentation, *and* the install process itself.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Fri, 21 Mar 2014 06:37:20 -0400 Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: On 3/20/2014 5:48 PM, »Q« boxc...@gmx.net wrote: Why should Gentoo have a default? Defaults are always a good idea - as long as they are reasonable and rational. Depends on how you think about it; one could claim a DE as default as reasonable and rational going one way, one could also claim something like LFS or stage1 or so to be reasonable and rational. I think the init system, as it becomes more of a choice, is on the edge here... ISTM the only good reason is that not having a default would make the documentation a lot more complicated. Documentation, *and* the install process itself. It's just one extra choice; so, that takes maybe a few minutes. It's a choice one would have to eventually make anyway; so, better do it early and have it right at once instead of having to do a more complicated migration later on. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Thu, 20 Mar 2014 17:23:05 -0400 Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: On 3/20/2014 4:00 PM, Tom Wijsman tom...@gentoo.org wrote: On Fri, 21 Feb 2014 09:53:51 +0400 Andrew Savchenko birc...@gmail.com wrote: OpenRC is default in Gentoo now, and it is my best hope it will be. Do you have a source that backs up this claim? Are you seriously challenging the FACT that OpenRC is the default init system in gentoo? Depends on how you define default; because as far as can be seen, it is by consequence rather than by decision. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Thu, 20 Mar 2014 17:25:18 -0400 Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: On 3/20/2014 4:14 PM, Tom Wijsman tom...@gentoo.org wrote: Tom - please STOP CC'ing me on these emails. I am on the list and don't need two copies. Use 'Reply-To-List' function (or equivalent - or worst case, delete my direct email manually yourself) in your email program. Like everyone else, use the 'Filter duplicates' function in your email program or procmail; these requests aren't remembered, given that email programs don't provide a function to do this selectively. For more insight: http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html http://woozle.org/~neale/papers/reply-to-still-harmful.html -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Tue, 18 Feb 2014 19:32:28 + Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: A login daemon should be started by the init system, not be an integral part of it. What happens when logind no longer fulfils developers needs, as is the case with ConsoleKit now, how can it be replaced with an improved service when it is so closely tied to the init system. It is started by the init system, as evidenced by the presence of systemd-logind.service as well as there being a separate systemd-logind executable; it is simply replaced by not starting the service, instead, starting another service that fits those needs. Also: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/systemd/tree/configure.ac#n798 -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Tue, 18 Feb 2014 10:54:55 +0100 J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote: On Sun, February 16, 2014 22:16, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 2:58 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: oh? I can pipe that output into cat or any any daemon I like? Doesn't look like so. But it does, you can cat with journalctl; it's one of its output options: -o, --output= cat generates a very terse output only showing the actual message of each journal entry with no meta data, not even a timestamp. As I do not have systemd installed on any machine, I can't check the man-pages. http://cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/systemd/tree/man But, if that is the only method to get parseable text from journalctl, then that is less then useless. Why? There are other output methods. See the man pages... I would expect an export option providing the same detail level as I currently find in /var/log/messages. That's what you can control with the various options of -o. A timestamp is a minimum required for logging system output. Depends on how you are processing that output. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 09:50:07 +0100 J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote: It all sounds too much like the MS Windows Event-viewer to me. Too many events with no usefull logging information (And I am referring to OS-level messages as to why default services are not starting) The MS Windows Event-viewer has very nice filtering capabilities; beyond that, the detailed information gives you the error code that you can look up in the documentation. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Sun, 16 Feb 2014 23:00:43 +0400 Yuri K. Shatroff yks-...@yandex.ru wrote: I wonder why all systemd's fancy stuff hasn't yet been integrated into any existing init system, because of theoretical impossibility or just practical uselessness? A lot of it is being integrated in some as we speak; however, other init systems are slow to catch up. In the last two months; as you can see, there haven't been meaningful commits to OpenRC other than small documentation fixes. The shortlog allows me to see the entire last year. http://git.overlays.gentoo.org/gitweb/?p=proj/openrc.git;a=log http://git.overlays.gentoo.org/gitweb/?p=proj/openrc.git;a=shortlog -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 07:57:06 -0500 Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: Getting the Gentoo Council behind this idea, and providing an officially supported - or maybe a better term is *mandated* - process whereby systemd proponents can create and then maintain new systemd versions of any existing profiles. I guess maybe it is time to go open a bug about this? I would be happy to do this, but maybe it would be better if someone who has much more knowledge of the inner workings of the Gentoo Council and whatever process governs things like this to do it? Wait on the gentoo-project ML for a mail gathering agenda items; once that happens, reply to it clearly explaining your request and what you would want them to discuss or vote on. Then you can watch and/or participate in the next meeting (they announce when that is there) and/or read up about their decision in the log and/or summary as they come online; for further details, you can read up here: http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Council -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On 21 March 2014 12:24:04 CET, Tom Wijsman tom...@gentoo.org wrote: On Tue, 18 Feb 2014 10:54:55 +0100 J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote: On Sun, February 16, 2014 22:16, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 2:58 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: oh? I can pipe that output into cat or any any daemon I like? Doesn't look like so. But it does, you can cat with journalctl; it's one of its output options: -o, --output= cat generates a very terse output only showing the actual message of each journal entry with no meta data, not even a timestamp. As I do not have systemd installed on any machine, I can't check the man-pages. http://cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/systemd/tree/man But, if that is the only method to get parseable text from journalctl, then that is less then useless. Why? There are other output methods. See the man pages... I would expect an export option providing the same detail level as I currently find in /var/log/messages. That's what you can control with the various options of -o. A timestamp is a minimum required for logging system output. Depends on how you are processing that output. Tom, Please reply to list. No need to include me in the recipient list. Also, no need to reopen a closed mail thread with replies that re-iterate already mentioned information. Canek said the same in his replies. -- Joost -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Fri, 21 Mar 2014 12:50:23 +0100 J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote: Tom, Please reply to list. No need to include me in the recipient list. Please filter duplicate mails. No need to tell each other this. http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html http://woozle.org/~neale/papers/reply-to-still-harmful.html Also, no need to reopen a closed mail A thread can't be closed by its individuals; you can choose to not reply, but that doesn't withhold the ability for others to reply. thread with replies that re-iterate already mentioned information. Canek said the same in his replies. Yes, I saw that after sending this mail; for most replies I do I check up on it in advance, in this case I missed and/or forgot. Sorry. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
Tom Wijsman wrote: On Thu, 20 Mar 2014 17:25:18 -0400 Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: On 3/20/2014 4:14 PM, Tom Wijsman tom...@gentoo.org wrote: Tom - please STOP CC'ing me on these emails. I am on the list and don't need two copies. Use 'Reply-To-List' function (or equivalent - or worst case, delete my direct email manually yourself) in your email program. Like everyone else, use the 'Filter duplicates' function in your email program or procmail; these requests aren't remembered, given that email programs don't provide a function to do this selectively. For more insight: http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html http://woozle.org/~neale/papers/reply-to-still-harmful.html So let's get this straight. You want most everyone on this list to change what they have to do to remove dups caused by you, instead of you changing what you do to fix the problem? To put it another way, you want to inconvenience everyone else instead of doing things the way everyone else does it and has done it for a long time? Here's a hint. I can see a LOT of people adding you to their blacklist. You could very well end up talking to yourself on this mailing list. Why not send messages in html while at it? That should finish off you getting your messages read. Just something to think about. Dale :-) :-) P. S. CC this message to me and I get a dup, I won't get the next one. I can fix the issue for you on a more permanent basis. -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Fri, 21 Mar 2014 12:13:28 +0100, Tom Wijsman wrote: Use 'Reply-To-List' function (or equivalent - or worst case, delete my direct email manually yourself) in your email program. Like everyone else, use the 'Filter duplicates' function in your email program or procmail; these requests aren't remembered, given that email programs don't provide a function to do this selectively. Don't they? Then why did you only get one copy of this reply, via the list? Most posters here do not have this problem, Of course, if you don't want people to bother reading your mails, continue to piss them off. -- Neil Bothwick C Error #011: First C Program, huh? signature.asc Description: PGP signature
[gentoo-user] Gentoo on MacbookPro Retina
Hello, Since a few weeks I am using Gentoo Linux. I have used Debian for something like 12 years and now decided to switch. So far I really enjoy the learning experience with Gentoo. Up to know I have it only installed on an old Notebook, to play around with it. However I use it way too seldom and thus want to install it on my main machine which is MacbookPro Retina. I read the Gentoo wiki article and several blog posts, however some instructions heavily differ, and I am not sure if the wiki is up to date. There seem to be minor problems but maybe they already have been fixed. No idea whether battery life, backlight usage, wifi and such things work properly. And I have heart that the high resolution causes some problems, but I dont understand why exactly. I would very much appreciate if someone could explain the _why_ to me :-) So I wonder if someone here has some experience, and could tell me what works and what doesn't. Furthermore I would greatly appreciate all kinds of advice and hints before I try to install it myself, maybe someone even can share his kernel config and other important config files which will make the Macbook usable. As a start for me to customize it more to my needs. Finally some information about my model. Name: MacbookPro Retina 15 inch mid 2012 Identifier: MacBookPro10,1 Model Number: A1398 Intel i7 dmesg: http://bpaste.net/show/xjfOdm8fRiL4QRNFw2pO/ lsmod: http://bpaste.net/show/6zwQsWDpRPkO2pJyaF5K/ lspci: http://bpaste.net/show/gik2ckJL3EiE7T2hGraO/ lsusb: http://bpaste.net/show/xTPd9BScPXlWOdKl7jcU/ Maybe I should add that I use a USB-To-Ethernet adapter from CableMatters which uses ASIX AX88179. I already booted succesfully with SystemRescueCD, from which I read lsmod and the other commands. Afterwards I installed refind UEFI bootloader, since many people seem to use it, but I am not sure whether it's better than Grub. And I have heard that because it's UEFI I need to use GPT partition tables. My primary goal is to get Gentoo running on this machine, so I can use it everyday and learn more about it on the go. However I also would appreciate every background information about configuring it, what problems can occur and why, to understand the whole matter. Thanks in advance regards Michael PS: I might not be able to check mails (and thus reply) until next Tuesday..
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Fri, March 21, 2014 12:59, Tom Wijsman wrote: On Fri, 21 Mar 2014 12:50:23 +0100 J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote: Tom, Please reply to list. No need to include me in the recipient list. Please filter duplicate mails. No need to tell each other this. I filter on the server, using SIEVE-scripts. Please provide the correct syntax I need to do this. You are the only one causing duplicate emails, all others on this list do NOT cause duplicate emails. This means the cause is on your side and the solution should then also be on your side. http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html http://woozle.org/~neale/papers/reply-to-still-harmful.html I disagree with those. Seen those arguments before along with the opposite versions. Mailing lists where a reply does not work are broken. Mailing lists where I always end up with duplicate replies don't stay used by myself for very long. Also, no need to reopen a closed mail A thread can't be closed by its individuals; you can choose to not reply, but that doesn't withhold the ability for others to reply. True, but a mail-thread that hasn't had a reply for over a month is usually considered closed. It's nice that you decide to catch up with your emails, but please then take care not to flood inboxes as well. -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Fri, 21 Mar 2014 07:10:49 -0500 Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: So let's get this straight. You want most everyone on this list to change what they have to do to remove dups caused by you, instead of you changing what you do to fix the problem? Everyone else is okay with it, as only one in a thousand speaks up about it; the problem rather is with that 0.1% than that it is with me, as I just use mailing lists as they are supposed to be used. To put it another way, you want to inconvenience everyone else instead of doing things the way everyone else does it and has done it for a long time? That's what the Reply-To header mungling does; it makes you unable to tell me through the Reply-To header what you want, and as a result I need to use the default than to be able to automatically respect it. As can be seen, that is an automatic guarantee that it will reach you. Just as well as the automatic guarantee that the same Message ID is the same message; and thus, your mail client should be filtering duplicates. Here's a hint. I can see a LOT of people adding you to their blacklist. You could very well end up talking to yourself on this mailing list. Here's a hint. Lots of people appear to respond to me. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Fri, 21 Mar 2014 12:27:09 + Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Fri, 21 Mar 2014 12:13:28 +0100, Tom Wijsman wrote: Use 'Reply-To-List' function (or equivalent - or worst case, delete my direct email manually yourself) in your email program. Like everyone else, use the 'Filter duplicates' function in your email program or procmail; these requests aren't remembered, given that email programs don't provide a function to do this selectively. Don't they? Then why did you only get one copy of this reply, via the list? Most posters here do not have this problem, Did I receive a reply? Who says I am even subscribed to the list? Of course, if you don't want people to bother reading your mails, continue to piss them off. All I'm doing is making sure this message gets to you; every notion you give to it beyond that, is what that 0.1% thinks of it. Not my problem. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 8:49 AM, Tom Wijsman tom...@gentoo.org wrote: On Fri, 21 Mar 2014 12:27:09 + Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Fri, 21 Mar 2014 12:13:28 +0100, Tom Wijsman wrote: Use 'Reply-To-List' function (or equivalent - or worst case, delete my direct email manually yourself) in your email program. Like everyone else, use the 'Filter duplicates' function in your email program or procmail; these requests aren't remembered, given that email programs don't provide a function to do this selectively. Don't they? Then why did you only get one copy of this reply, via the list? Most posters here do not have this problem, Did I receive a reply? Who says I am even subscribed to the list? Of course, if you don't want people to bother reading your mails, continue to piss them off. All I'm doing is making sure this message gets to you; every notion you give to it beyond that, is what that 0.1% thinks of it. Not my problem. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D Just my 2c as one of the others who doesn't generally reply to what, at face value, seemed an awful lot more combative/trolling of a tone than actually useful (disregard != compliance on the internet), fighting on the topic of 'proper use of mailing lists' when you're standing in stark contrast to the configuration of the mailing list you're using to do it, and in the process, telling everyone (many of which have been around here helping other users for many, many, years) that they're wrong for using the list they've been using in the manner they've been using it... when I see your name appear the first time as long ago as last Dec., is rather on the arrogant side at the least (I'm not certain if you've been around -dev or another longer, as I don't believe I'm subscribed on that one). If you're really hellbent on getting the configuration of the list changed, feel free to take it up with the person who configures the list, rather than approaching it by being condescending to the people who consistently use it. -- Poison [BLX] Joshua M. Murphy
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Fri, 21 Mar 2014 13:41:54 +0100
J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote:
On Fri, March 21, 2014 12:59, Tom Wijsman wrote:
On Fri, 21 Mar 2014 12:50:23 +0100
J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote:
Tom,
Please reply to list. No need to include me in the recipient list.
Please filter duplicate mails. No need to tell each other this.
I filter on the server, using SIEVE-scripts.
Please provide the correct syntax I need to do this.
The vnd.dovecot.duplicate extension can be used to do this, RFC:
http://hg.rename-it.nl/dovecot-2.1-pigeonhole/raw-file/tip/doc/rfc/spec-bosch-sieve-duplicate.txt
It is designed exactly for this purpose, quote from the introduction:
Duplicate deliveries are a common side-effect of being subscribed
to a mailing list.
Example correct syntax:
require [vnd.dovecot.duplicate, fileinto, mailbox];
if duplicate {
fileinto :create Trash/Duplicate;
}
This will move duplicates to Trash/Duplicate, given that you enable the
vnd.dovecot.duplicate extension; I use a similar rule in procmail.
You are the only one causing duplicate emails, all others on this
list do NOT cause duplicate emails.
That's because some people here are users that don't commonly use
bigger mailing lists and thus have no such filter in place; however,
when you get to participate in bigger mailing lists, you will get such
duplicate mails by design if you don't have a filter. Take for example
the LKML, where it is common practice that relevant mailing lists as
well as individuals are CC-ed; you'll get a dupe as one of either.
Being the sender of a message, however, some mailing lists allow you to
control whether you want to be CC-ed; this can be done by setting a
Reply-To header, but in this case it is always overridden which
removes the ability to guarantee you'll receive the message.
There are other participants on the Gentoo mailing lists that
participate in other mailing lists too; and when met with Reply-To
mungling, they do the same approach. eg. Michał Górny (mgorny)
This means the cause is on your side and the solution should then
also be on your side.
The goal is to ensure people receive their mail; if I were to make a
solution on my sight, it voids that goal as the guarantee is gone.
http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html
http://woozle.org/~neale/papers/reply-to-still-harmful.html
I disagree with those. Seen those arguments before along with the
opposite versions. Mailing lists where a reply does not work are
broken. Mailing lists where I always end up with duplicate replies
don't stay used by myself for very long.
Given a present filter, I use any mailing list; I don't let technical
differences in the software being used overcome the ability to state
something on a mailing list, and if a technical difference does matter
to someone (0.1% in this case) I expect them to adapt. This ain't a
place where One True Way is to be enforced; as you can see, I very
well consider the standard reply button to be broken...
Also, no need to reopen a closed mail
A thread can't be closed by its individuals; you can choose to not
reply, but that doesn't withhold the ability for others to reply.
True, but a mail-thread that hasn't had a reply for over a month is
usually considered closed. It's nice that you decide to catch up with
your emails, but please then take care not to flood inboxes as well.
Similar to above, right click and ignore thread could be used as
well as sort / group by thread; as without both features, there's no
dam in place to avoid the flood from happening.
As for the river / sea, there's no way to convince the river / sea to
go away; it'll be there, even if you could use a bucket to remove me,
there'll be another person or so tomorrow.
In comparison, on the LKML you will get replies one or more months
later; if you there then reply claiming a thread is closed, it'll be
perceived as everything but that...
--
With kind regards,
Tom Wijsman (TomWij)
Gentoo Developer
E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org
GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D
GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Fri, 21 Mar 2014 09:13:27 -0400 Poison BL. poiso...@gmail.com wrote: fighting on the topic of 'proper use of mailing lists' when you're standing in stark contrast to the configuration of the mailing list you're using to do it, Which fight? It is a short notice as to why it is being done, as well as what can be done to make a change. Convincing individually isn't. and in the process, telling everyone (many of which have been around here helping other users for many, many, years) that they're wrong for using the list they've been using in the manner they've been using it... Words are being turned around here, I've never said someone is wrong; however, I provided filtering as an option to them to consider. when I see your name appear the first time as long ago as last Dec., is rather on the arrogant side at the least (I'm not certain if you've been around -dev or another longer, as I don't believe I'm subscribed on that one). There are more mailing lists and communication mediums; the reason I've not replied much in this one since last year, is because I've let this inbox grow to ~1000 unread mails or so which I'm progressing now. If you're really hellbent on getting the configuration of the list changed, feel free to take it up with the person who configures the list, rather than approaching it by being condescending to the people who consistently use it. That's for those that have a problem with it to do; as well a getting it confirmed that a certain way of responding is required, there's been nothing said about it when mails of mine went out to persons from the infrastructure team on the gentoo-dev ML and neither by other devs. Developers recommend each other to use a rule, and everyone uses it; it might be a side effect of procmail being available on our dev SSH, but in any case it works out well for every developer, see this link: http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Procmail The mailing list etiquette requires people to CC all the people involved in a particular thread in replies to the mailing list, in case any of them is not subscribed. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Fwd: How about the gentoo server or cluster in production environment?
On Thu, 27 Feb 2014 14:53:22 -0300 Facundo Curti facu.cu...@gmail.com wrote: Debian, and Ubuntu are desktop platforms. Yes they are widely used in production server environments (the slow ones that is) however, our last experience with Debian squeeze as a whole (ie, source tree, reliability, performance), was inhospitable. Dare I say, it was making as nauseated as we would be behind a Windows machine... Really? Debian is a desktop distro? Gentoo it is also, as ALMOST every distro... Gentoo is a meta distro; because of that, you can make it whatever you want to be nearly unlimited (other than by available manpower). :) -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Multiple package instances ..... Help me understand this emerge error, please.
On Sun, 23 Feb 2014 11:54:43 + Alan Mackenzie a...@muc.de wrote: On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 01:32:36AM +0100, waben...@gmail.com wrote: Am Samstag, 22.02.2014 um 21:15 What do I have to do to get this thing emerged? Thanks! Sometimes it is helpful to increase the backtrack value. Some weeks ago I had a similar problem and could I solve it with emerge --backtrack=100 ... Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately, it didn't help. :-( Maybe there is a blocker then? Scanned the entire thread; I'm not sure, but can you let us know if the problem is resolved and how? -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Multiple package instances ..... Help me understand this emerge error, please.
On Sat, 22 Feb 2014 21:15:05 + Alan Mackenzie a...@muc.de wrote: (media-libs/libpng-1.6.8::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) pulled in by (no parents that aren't satisfied by other packages in this slot) Whenever you see this, (no parents that ...), you'll want to be aware that there is backtracking going on and that in this case it failed to find a solution through backtracking. Exactly, the rest of your emerge output you have cut away actually matters here; the part above could reveal that there perhaps might be a blocker stopping the backtracking, the part under reveals that you need to increase the backtracking value and try again (if no blocker). -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Compiles take much longer than in the past
On Sun, 23 Feb 2014 15:53:44 +0100 Frank Steinmetzger war...@gmx.de wrote: I'm observing on this olde Centrino laptop that emerges take much, much longer for certain packages than they did in the past. There are a lot more factors that could come into play here; degrading hardware, worse kernel, fragmentation and usage of a disk, newer compiler, newer libraries used by the compiler and build tools, the list can go on for a while ... I ... eh ... have no clue where to get started; so, I suggest you try to improve performance (using simply tips tricks or so) as well as try to bisect whether an older version of something improves the situation to maybe find the cause. Other than that, word of warning, you might end up spending more time than the compiles cost you, so, maybe a reinstall after all is a good idea to start fresh? If it still is broken after a clean reinstall ... it is hardware. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: banshee installation without systemd
On Mon, 24 Feb 2014 03:11:25 +0100 eroen er...@falcon.eroen.eu wrote: One would hope (mostly for their image's sake) the gnome team does not remove gnome-settings-daemon-2 until at least one of cinnamon-settings-daemon and mate-settings-daemon are included in gentoo proper. + 05 Mar 2014; Tom Wijsman tom...@gentoo.org + +files/mate-settings-daemon-1.2.0-syndaemon-mode.patch, + +files/mate-settings-daemon-1.4.0-netfs-monitor.patch, + +mate-settings-daemon-1.6.2.ebuild, +metadata.xml: + New ebuild for mate-base/mate-settings-daemon, MATE Settings Daemon; + imported from the mate-overlay, reviewed and adjusted. Hoping to see it unmasked in the next week, just a few more to add... -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Fri, March 21, 2014 14:20, Tom Wijsman wrote:
On Fri, 21 Mar 2014 13:41:54 +0100
J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote:
On Fri, March 21, 2014 12:59, Tom Wijsman wrote:
On Fri, 21 Mar 2014 12:50:23 +0100
J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote:
Tom,
Please reply to list. No need to include me in the recipient list.
Please filter duplicate mails. No need to tell each other this.
I filter on the server, using SIEVE-scripts.
Please provide the correct syntax I need to do this.
The vnd.dovecot.duplicate extension can be used to do this, RFC:
http://hg.rename-it.nl/dovecot-2.1-pigeonhole/raw-file/tip/doc/rfc/spec-bosch-sieve-duplicate.txt
It is designed exactly for this purpose, quote from the introduction:
Duplicate deliveries are a common side-effect of being subscribed
to a mailing list.
Example correct syntax:
require [vnd.dovecot.duplicate, fileinto, mailbox];
if duplicate {
fileinto :create Trash/Duplicate;
}
Is that one included in the Cyrus ebuild?
This will move duplicates to Trash/Duplicate, given that you enable the
vnd.dovecot.duplicate extension; I use a similar rule in procmail.
I ONLY want duplicates that would end up in my inbox to be filtered.
If an email is sent to 2 or more mailing lists, they should end up in each
relevant mailing list folder.
You are the only one causing duplicate emails, all others on this
list do NOT cause duplicate emails.
That's because some people here are users that don't commonly use
bigger mailing lists and thus have no such filter in place; however,
when you get to participate in bigger mailing lists, you will get such
duplicate mails by design if you don't have a filter. Take for example
the LKML, where it is common practice that relevant mailing lists as
well as individuals are CC-ed; you'll get a dupe as one of either.
With LKML, most people don't stay subscribed for very long as their
mailboxes overflow. On this list, the general consensus is that you reply
to list only unless specifically requested otherwise.
Being the sender of a message, however, some mailing lists allow you to
control whether you want to be CC-ed; this can be done by setting a
Reply-To header, but in this case it is always overridden which
removes the ability to guarantee you'll receive the message.
I am subscribed, so no need to add me to the CC.
If I am really interested in the reply and I would not be in the list, I
would check the archives, which are updated fast enough for the purpose.
There are other participants on the Gentoo mailing lists that
participate in other mailing lists too; and when met with Reply-To
mungling, they do the same approach. eg. MichaŠGórny (mgorny)
This means the cause is on your side and the solution should then
also be on your side.
The goal is to ensure people receive their mail; if I were to make a
solution on my sight, it voids that goal as the guarantee is gone.
The goal only makes sense when replying to emails that are still relevant.
A discussion that is over a month old is usually no longer relevant.
Especially if the email only contains information that already was sent.
http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html
http://woozle.org/~neale/papers/reply-to-still-harmful.html
I disagree with those. Seen those arguments before along with the
opposite versions. Mailing lists where a reply does not work are
broken. Mailing lists where I always end up with duplicate replies
don't stay used by myself for very long.
Given a present filter, I use any mailing list; I don't let technical
differences in the software being used overcome the ability to state
something on a mailing list, and if a technical difference does matter
to someone (0.1% in this case) I expect them to adapt. This ain't a
place where One True Way is to be enforced; as you can see, I very
well consider the standard reply button to be broken...
Still waiting for a filter that works on my server.
Also, no need to reopen a closed mail
A thread can't be closed by its individuals; you can choose to not
reply, but that doesn't withhold the ability for others to reply.
True, but a mail-thread that hasn't had a reply for over a month is
usually considered closed. It's nice that you decide to catch up with
your emails, but please then take care not to flood inboxes as well.
Similar to above, right click and ignore thread could be used as
well as sort / group by thread; as without both features, there's no
dam in place to avoid the flood from happening.
Filtering out your emails fully also would avoid this happening.
As for the river / sea, there's no way to convince the river / sea to
go away; it'll be there, even if you could use a bucket to remove me,
there'll be another person or so tomorrow.
On this list, you (people who insist on CC-ing the world) are the minority.
In comparison, on the LKML you will get replies one or more months
later; if
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Fri, 21 Mar 2014 15:06:12 +0100 J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote: Is that one included in the Cyrus ebuild? In Cyrus it is an actual feature, see the (first) FAQ[1] entry about Duplicate Delivery Surpression; in imapd.conf you can do duplicatesuppression: 1 to enable this. It might be that because this is an actual feature that the extension isn't implemented; unpacking the source tarball, then insensitive case grepping for 'dupl', I only find the above feature. [1]: https://cyrusimap.org/mediawiki/index.php/FAQ I ONLY want duplicates that would end up in my inbox to be filtered. If an email is sent to 2 or more mailing lists, they should end up in each relevant mailing list folder. The procmail filter we have neatly does this by checking the List-Id header; maybe this can be mimicked in a Sieve rule, the rule is simple. With LKML, most people don't stay subscribed for very long as their mailboxes overflow. On this list, the general consensus is that you reply to list only unless specifically requested otherwise. It's possible to stay subscribed with strict filtering, its reading volume to me is in terms of unread mail currently 5 times as much as this ML; however, I scroll more through the mails there than I do here which makes the effort to process both nearly equal. With a higher amount of mailing lists to follow I don't keep a list of exceptions; and therefore, to keep it simple, do the same everywhere. Information overflow stays manageable for me if I keep things simple; if I however would start to add manual matching techniques to that, it would become much more unmanageable as instead of being effective I suddenly start doing something what our software is supposed to do. I am subscribed, so no need to add me to the CC. As said above, I could put this on a list; but I'll forget about it. If I am really interested in the reply and I would not be in the list, I would check the archives, which are updated fast enough for the purpose. That is only so if you expect and/or are aware of the reply. The goal only makes sense when replying to emails that are still relevant. A discussion that is over a month old is usually no longer relevant. Not much has changed since then; and thus, it is still recent enough. Filtering out your emails fully also would avoid this happening. It is quite effective. As for the river / sea, there's no way to convince the river / sea to go away; it'll be there, even if you could use a bucket to remove me, there'll be another person or so tomorrow. On this list, you (people who insist on CC-ing the world) are the minority. On this world, this list (where people that I can count on my fingers insist on not being CC-ed) is a minority. Regardless of both being a minority, they'll continue to be present. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Unable to access USB3 HDD / Pen drive
On Tue, 4 Mar 2014 07:47:47 +0530 Nilesh Govindrajan m...@nileshgr.com wrote: Works perfectly. Looks like I've to downgrade to geek sources 3.13.4 in this case. Remember some thread about this on LKML; think this would have been fixed by now, does this still happen on more recent versions? If so, please file a bug at https://bugs.gentoo.org -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] glibc-2.18 build problem
On Fri, 7 Mar 2014 18:43:27 +0800 microcai micro...@fedoraproject.org wrote: I'm having trouble compiling glibc. No matter I tried with binutils 2.23 2.24. or - live version, I got ld internal error in x86_64_relocation . And the same error repeated with glibc-2.18 and glibc-2.19 . Don't know why . The google bring me a old bug report about x86_64_relocation internal error when used conjunction with IFUNC, but that doesn't seems to be related with mine problem. When I first try to update glibc to 2.18, it's fine. but then the attempt to update glibc to 2.18-r1 failed with ld internal error. This error remains with glibc-2.16-r2 and glibc-2.19, regardless of binutils version. Does anyone have had the same problem? Can you file a bug at https://bugs.gentoo.org such that the maintainers are aware of this? That is, only if it is still reproducible today. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Unable to access USB3 HDD / Pen drive
On 21-Mar-2014 9:12 pm, Tom Wijsman tom...@gentoo.org wrote: On Tue, 4 Mar 2014 07:47:47 +0530 Nilesh Govindrajan m...@nileshgr.com wrote: Works perfectly. Looks like I've to downgrade to geek sources 3.13.4 in this case. Remember some thread about this on LKML; think this would have been fixed by now, does this still happen on more recent versions? If so, please file a bug at https://bugs.gentoo.org -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D I'd posted it. It's fixed now, https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=71581
Re: [gentoo-user] World update and dev-lang/python-exec weirdness...
On Sat, 8 Mar 2014 10:12:13 -0500 Todd Goodman t...@bonedaddy.net wrote: When you ask it to emerge dev-lang/python-exec it tries to emerge for all slots (I'm not sure, someone please correct me if that's not what's happening.) Consider what happened when you did `sys-kernel/gentoo-sources` in the installation; it is a slotted package, it only brings in the latest visible version. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
J. Roeleveld wrote: I filter on the server, using SIEVE-scripts. Please provide the correct syntax I need to do this. You are the only one causing duplicate emails, all others on this list do NOT cause duplicate emails. This means the cause is on your side and the solution should then also be on your side. http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html http://woozle.org/~neale/papers/reply-to-still-harmful.html I disagree with those. Seen those arguments before along with the opposite versions. Mailing lists where a reply does not work are broken. Mailing lists where I always end up with duplicate replies don't stay used by myself for very long. +1 This is no different than a person sending a HTML email. This mailing list doesn't like them and it is the sender that should change their settings to stop it from happening. We may make exceptions for those using cell phones who can not change it but when it can be changed by the sender, it should be changed by them. Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
Tom Wijsman wrote: On Fri, 21 Mar 2014 07:10:49 -0500 Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: So let's get this straight. You want most everyone on this list to change what they have to do to remove dups caused by you, instead of you changing what you do to fix the problem? Everyone else is okay with it, as only one in a thousand speaks up about it; the problem rather is with that 0.1% than that it is with me, as I just use mailing lists as they are supposed to be used. FYI. Most people don't say anything, they just blacklist you. After that, you don't exist to them. To put it another way, you want to inconvenience everyone else instead of doing things the way everyone else does it and has done it for a long time? That's what the Reply-To header mungling does; it makes you unable to tell me through the Reply-To header what you want, and as a result I need to use the default than to be able to automatically respect it. As can be seen, that is an automatic guarantee that it will reach you. Just as well as the automatic guarantee that the same Message ID is the same message; and thus, your mail client should be filtering duplicates. To my knowledge, the only emails I have not got when someone sent to this mailing list is when the mailing list server had problems and that was a long long time ago. You send a email to the list and the list gets the email. There is NO need to CC everyone so that they get dups. Period. We don't need a CC guarantee. Here's a hint. I can see a LOT of people adding you to their blacklist. You could very well end up talking to yourself on this mailing list. Here's a hint. Lots of people appear to respond to me. This is a COMMUNITY effort here and you seem to not want to be a part of the community. When I first came here, my email program sent html. I was told that HTML is not appreciated here. Some even provided examples of why it is not appreciated. I asked how to change that, I was given the help needed to change it and I have made sure that it remained that way since. There was a point in time where I changed software and couldn't find the setting. I asked if anyone knew where it was and got the help needed to get it set back to plain text, as EVERYONE else does on this list. If you don't want to be here by the standards set, say good bye. I'm trying to help you by telling you this. People will blacklist you and never say a word about it. I suspect quite a few already has. It would be wise to change your way of handling this list or you will lose. Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On 3/21/2014 7:13 AM, Tom Wijsman tom...@gentoo.org wrote: On Thu, 20 Mar 2014 17:25:18 -0400 Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: On 3/20/2014 4:14 PM, Tom Wijsman tom...@gentoo.org wrote: Tom - please STOP CC'ing me on these emails. I am on the list and don't need two copies. Use 'Reply-To-List' function (or equivalent - or worst case, delete my direct email manually yourself) in your email program. Like everyone else, use the 'Filter duplicates' function in your email program or procmail; Fuck you Tom. PLONK THE ARROGANT PRICK.
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
Poison BL. wrote: Just my 2c as one of the others who doesn't generally reply to what, at face value, seemed an awful lot more combative/trolling of a tone than actually useful (disregard != compliance on the internet), fighting on the topic of 'proper use of mailing lists' when you're standing in stark contrast to the configuration of the mailing list you're using to do it, and in the process, telling everyone (many of which have been around here helping other users for many, many, years) that they're wrong for using the list they've been using in the manner they've been using it... when I see your name appear the first time as long ago as last Dec., is rather on the arrogant side at the least (I'm not certain if you've been around -dev or another longer, as I don't believe I'm subscribed on that one). If you're really hellbent on getting the configuration of the list changed, feel free to take it up with the person who configures the list, rather than approaching it by being condescending to the people who consistently use it. +1 I see Tom being on a lot of peoples black list. He's burning bridges. I been here since 2003 or 2004 if I recall correctly. When I first came here, I conformed my settings to what the people on this list wanted and expected. I was told the same thing people are telling Tom now. Failure to listen and adapt is not going to go well for Tom. It seems Tom wants everyone else to change because he refuses too and on top of that, he thinks no one will do anything if he doesn't. I'll give this a day or two. If it doesn't change, bye Tom. That won't just be for this list but also every Gentoo list you are on including -dev. Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!
[gentoo-user] No motherboard beep since kernel upgrade
Since the last kernel upgrade the motherboard beep of my system has gone silent. The notebook is a HP Compaq 6710b and with an Intel 82801H Chipset (see attached lscpi -k) Module for my sound card is running and SND_HDA_INPUT_BEEP is activated in kernel config. Am I missing something else? null_ptr B: Are you pondering what I'm pondering? P: Well, I think so, Brain, but do I really need two tongues? 00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corporation Mobile PM965/GM965/GL960 Memory Controller Hub (rev 0c) Subsystem: Hewlett-Packard Company Compaq 6710b Kernel driver in use: agpgart-intel 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Mobile GM965/GL960 Integrated Graphics Controller (primary) (rev 0c) Subsystem: Hewlett-Packard Company Compaq 6710b Kernel driver in use: i915 00:02.1 Display controller: Intel Corporation Mobile GM965/GL960 Integrated Graphics Controller (secondary) (rev 0c) Subsystem: Hewlett-Packard Company Compaq 6710b 00:1a.0 USB controller: Intel Corporation 82801H (ICH8 Family) USB UHCI Controller #4 (rev 03) Subsystem: Hewlett-Packard Company Compaq 6710b Kernel driver in use: uhci_hcd Kernel modules: uhci_hcd 00:1a.1 USB controller: Intel Corporation 82801H (ICH8 Family) USB UHCI Controller #5 (rev 03) Subsystem: Hewlett-Packard Company Compaq 6710b Kernel driver in use: uhci_hcd Kernel modules: uhci_hcd 00:1a.7 USB controller: Intel Corporation 82801H (ICH8 Family) USB2 EHCI Controller #2 (rev 03) Subsystem: Hewlett-Packard Company Compaq 6710b Kernel driver in use: ehci-pci 00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation 82801H (ICH8 Family) HD Audio Controller (rev 03) Subsystem: Hewlett-Packard Company Compaq 6710b Kernel driver in use: snd_hda_intel Kernel modules: snd_hda_intel 00:1c.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 82801H (ICH8 Family) PCI Express Port 1 (rev 03) Kernel driver in use: pcieport 00:1c.1 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 82801H (ICH8 Family) PCI Express Port 2 (rev 03) Kernel driver in use: pcieport 00:1c.2 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 82801H (ICH8 Family) PCI Express Port 3 (rev 03) Kernel driver in use: pcieport 00:1c.4 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 82801H (ICH8 Family) PCI Express Port 5 (rev 03) Kernel driver in use: pcieport 00:1d.0 USB controller: Intel Corporation 82801H (ICH8 Family) USB UHCI Controller #1 (rev 03) Subsystem: Hewlett-Packard Company Compaq 6710b Kernel driver in use: uhci_hcd Kernel modules: uhci_hcd 00:1d.1 USB controller: Intel Corporation 82801H (ICH8 Family) USB UHCI Controller #2 (rev 03) Subsystem: Hewlett-Packard Company Compaq 6710b Kernel driver in use: uhci_hcd Kernel modules: uhci_hcd 00:1d.2 USB controller: Intel Corporation 82801H (ICH8 Family) USB UHCI Controller #3 (rev 03) Subsystem: Hewlett-Packard Company Compaq 6710b Kernel driver in use: uhci_hcd Kernel modules: uhci_hcd 00:1d.7 USB controller: Intel Corporation 82801H (ICH8 Family) USB2 EHCI Controller #1 (rev 03) Subsystem: Hewlett-Packard Company Compaq 6710b Kernel driver in use: ehci-pci 00:1e.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 82801 Mobile PCI Bridge (rev f3) 00:1f.0 ISA bridge: Intel Corporation 82801HM (ICH8M) LPC Interface Controller (rev 03) Subsystem: Hewlett-Packard Company Compaq 6710b 00:1f.2 IDE interface: Intel Corporation 82801HM/HEM (ICH8M/ICH8M-E) SATA Controller [IDE mode] (rev 03) Subsystem: Hewlett-Packard Company Compaq 6710b Kernel driver in use: ata_piix Kernel modules: pata_acpi, ata_generic 02:04.0 CardBus bridge: Ricoh Co Ltd RL5c476 II (rev b6) Subsystem: Hewlett-Packard Company Compaq 6710b Kernel driver in use: yenta_cardbus Kernel modules: yenta_socket 10:00.0 Network controller: Intel Corporation PRO/Wireless 3945ABG [Golan] Network Connection (rev 02) Subsystem: Hewlett-Packard Company PRO/Wireless 3945ABG [Golan] Network Connection Kernel driver in use: iwl3945 Kernel modules: iwl3945 18:00.0 Ethernet controller: Broadcom Corporation NetLink BCM5787M Gigabit Ethernet PCI Express (rev 02) Subsystem: Hewlett-Packard Company Device 30c2 Kernel driver in use: tg3 Kernel modules: tg3
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
Tanstaafl wrote: On 3/21/2014 7:13 AM, Tom Wijsman tom...@gentoo.org wrote: On Thu, 20 Mar 2014 17:25:18 -0400 Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: On 3/20/2014 4:14 PM, Tom Wijsman tom...@gentoo.org wrote: Tom - please STOP CC'ing me on these emails. I am on the list and don't need two copies. Use 'Reply-To-List' function (or equivalent - or worst case, delete my direct email manually yourself) in your email program. Like everyone else, use the 'Filter duplicates' function in your email program or procmail; Fuck you Tom. PLONK THE ARROGANT PRICK. There goes one. Tom, you ever wonder how many people are doing the same but not saying anything? Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Fri, 21 Mar 2014 12:41:03 -0500 Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: FYI. Most people don't say anything, they just blacklist you. After that, you don't exist to them. Yes, that's up to those few; it could happen, but most respond instead. To my knowledge, the only emails I have not got when someone sent to this mailing list is when the mailing list server had problems and that was a long long time ago. You send a email to the list and the list gets the email. There is NO need to CC everyone so that they get dups. Period. There is a need, see the previous mails about it; the need stays as is. We don't need a CC guarantee. I do, as I spend time on this; that time should have guaranteed results. This is a COMMUNITY effort here and you seem to not want to be a part of the community. If it were true, I would stop my contributions and support here and now. If you don't want to be here by the standards set, say good bye. The etiquette is the standard that I follow, it encourages this; it is stepping away from that etiquette and thus results in good bye: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.user/273297 Consider that each time you tell some user to not CC or so on the ML, you're actually sending an extra mail to a ton of people yourself; whereas the mail telling that ignores the subject of the thread, please consider to do this in an off-list reply with positive words. I'm trying to help you by telling you this. People will blacklist you and never say a word about it. I suspect quite a few already has. It would be wise to change your way of handling this list or you will lose. And others try to help me by telling the opposite; so, when two groups of people tell you to do something that conflicts, which one would be picked? Well, pick the one that respects our etiquette; and along that, the same one guarantees that my time is spent wise. Similarly, would you spend time to keep asking this everytime it happens by one or another individual or just simply filter it once and for all? -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] No motherboard beep since kernel upgrade
On Fri, Mar 21, 2014, at 18:51, null_ptr wrote: Module for my sound card is running and SND_HDA_INPUT_BEEP is activated in kernel config. Am I missing something else? Perhaps you need CONFIG_INPUT_PCSPKR.
Re: [gentoo-user] No motherboard beep since kernel upgrade
On 21/03/14 19:54, Francesco Turco wrote: On Fri, Mar 21, 2014, at 18:51, null_ptr wrote: Module for my sound card is running and SND_HDA_INPUT_BEEP is activated in kernel config. Am I missing something else? Perhaps you need CONFIG_INPUT_PCSPKR. I tried building with that and it didn't fix it.
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On 21/03/2014 20:23, Dale wrote: Tanstaafl wrote: On 3/21/2014 7:13 AM, Tom Wijsman tom...@gentoo.org wrote: On Thu, 20 Mar 2014 17:25:18 -0400 Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: On 3/20/2014 4:14 PM, Tom Wijsman tom...@gentoo.org wrote: Tom - please STOP CC'ing me on these emails. I am on the list and don't need two copies. Use 'Reply-To-List' function (or equivalent - or worst case, delete my direct email manually yourself) in your email program. Like everyone else, use the 'Filter duplicates' function in your email program or procmail; Fuck you Tom. PLONK THE ARROGANT PRICK. There goes one. Tom, you ever wonder how many people are doing the same but not saying anything? Judging by replies so far, I'd guess not many at all. You can't possibly know how many will or will not plonk someone. In the meantime Dale, I think you are projecting. Chill out brother, chill out. Plenty stuff in the world more deserving of attention than this. -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] No motherboard beep since kernel upgrade
I can't think of the name of the module, pcspkr IIRC or some such, but it prolly isn't loaded. Modprobe can tell you if it's available load it. On Mar 21, 2014 12:41 PM, Dat G rhan...@gmx.de wrote: On 21/03/14 19:54, Francesco Turco wrote: On Fri, Mar 21, 2014, at 18:51, null_ptr wrote: Module for my sound card is running and SND_HDA_INPUT_BEEP is activated in kernel config. Am I missing something else? Perhaps you need CONFIG_INPUT_PCSPKR. I tried building with that and it didn't fix it.
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 02:29:48PM +0100, Tom Wijsman wrote http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Procmail The mailing list etiquette requires people to CC all the people involved in a particular thread in replies to the mailing list, in case any of them is not subscribed. How does one send email to *THIS* list, without being subscribed in the first place? A bugzilla mailing list is a different matter. A web form bug submission goes to a list, which the submitter is probably not subscribed to. Developers do need to CC their replies to the original submitter to let them know what's happening. But I'm not aware of any such mechanism on this list. If someone is involved in a thread here, then they've obviously subscribed here. So the CC: is redundant. Speaking of procmail+formail, I use them to tame the lists that follow Chip Rosenthal's ideas. E.g., if this list did that, I would use... :0 fhw * ^X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists\.gentoo\.org * !^Reply-To: gentoo-user@lists\.gentoo\.org | formail -i Reply-To: gentoo-user@lists\.gentoo\.org (Gentoo users) I do this to the few lists I run into that I want/need, which blindly follow Chip's ideas. -- Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org I don't run desktop environments; I run useful applications
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On 21/03/2014 23:57, Walter Dnes wrote: On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 02:29:48PM +0100, Tom Wijsman wrote http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Procmail The mailing list etiquette requires people to CC all the people involved in a particular thread in replies to the mailing list, in case any of them is not subscribed. How does one send email to *THIS* list, without being subscribed in the first place? A bugzilla mailing list is a different matter. A web form bug submission goes to a list, which the submitter is probably not subscribed to. Developers do need to CC their replies to the original submitter to let them know what's happening. But I'm not aware of any such mechanism on this list. If someone is involved in a thread here, then they've obviously subscribed here. So the CC: is redundant. Speaking of procmail+formail, I use them to tame the lists that follow Chip Rosenthal's ideas. E.g., if this list did that, I would use... :0 fhw * ^X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists\.gentoo\.org * !^Reply-To: gentoo-user@lists\.gentoo\.org | formail -i Reply-To: gentoo-user@lists\.gentoo\.org (Gentoo users) I do this to the few lists I run into that I want/need, which blindly follow Chip's ideas. Chip Rosenthal? yeah, he's the Reply-To munging considered harmful fellow Trouble is, he argues from a theoretical position and ignores what people actually do with lists. There's two main uses: 1. a distribution mechanism to reach all subscribers and/or where you don;t have to be subscribed to post. For these you really don't want to munge Reply-To 2. A discussion forum. For these you do munge Reply-To: to be the list so all discussion happens on-list and is visible to all gentoo-user has always been the latter and all discussion always takes place on-list. If some doc somewhere says otherwise, change the doc to reflect reality. I utterly fail to see why so many folks on the internet can't see why there's two kinds of lists... I think I'm going to compose an essay; Chip Rosenthal and his detractors all considered harmful -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Fri, 21 Mar 2014 17:57:07 -0400 Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org wrote: How does one send email to *THIS* list, without being subscribed in the first place? You can do that on sites like GMANE; similarly, given a message ID, you can request that specific from the mailing list daemon to land in your inbox, which allows you even do a signed reply to it. As you can see; there are people that want to participate only when they are interested in it, rather than flood their mailing program. Let's say you have a bug when you unmount a filesystem; so, you go look on the LKML if there's something known about it. You'll find: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/1671264 The thing is; you're not subscribed as you found it, yet you want to reply to it without subscribing to its flood, what do? You send off a single reply; then you expect someone that responds to CC you if that person wants to tell / ask you something, otherwise you wouldn't know. But I'm not aware of any such mechanism on this list. If someone is involved in a thread here, then they've obviously subscribed here. So the CC: is redundant. Invisible things are hard to be aware of; you assume that the person is CC-ed, however, the person may have found the thread through GMANE _or_ the person might have been unsubscribed by the moment you make a reply. We see similar things happen on IRC; someone asks a question, 2 or 3 minutes later they are gone. Sometimes they ask a question, but receive no answer so they are gone 20 or 30 minutes later. Similarly; we're now a month later in this ML thread, who says people are still subscribed? On IRC, if you pay notice to the many join/part/quits and don't filter them, you can still spot that with awareness; however, on ML you can't. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Sat, 22 Mar 2014 00:34:55 +0200 Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: 2. A discussion forum. For these you do munge Reply-To: to be the list so all discussion happens on-list and is visible to all gentoo-user has always been the latter and all discussion always takes place on-list. If some doc somewhere says otherwise, change the doc to reflect reality. http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/lists.xml mentions it is about support too, and people that are here to be supported don't necessarily want to follow the discussion that comes along as well; thus unsubscribe before an answer or not subscribe at all in the first place, they then instead rely on receiving a mail regardless of that. CC-ing ensures that the minutes spent on the answer make it reach the person; relying on that they are (still) subscribed, I can waste time. See the most recent mail I sent before this for details. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
Alan McKinnon wrote: Judging by replies so far, I'd guess not many at all. You can't possibly know how many will or will not plonk someone. In the meantime Dale, I think you are projecting. Chill out brother, chill out. Plenty stuff in the world more deserving of attention than this. I fixed it now. No more problems. Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
Tom Wijsman wrote: On Fri, 21 Mar 2014 12:41:03 -0500 Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: FYI. Most people don't say anything, they just blacklist you. After that, you don't exist to them. Yes, that's up to those few; it could happen, but most respond instead. I just read the last message from you Tom. Good bye. Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!
Re: [gentoo-user] No motherboard beep since kernel upgrade
On 21/03/14 14:41, Lee wrote: I can't think of the name of the module, pcspkr IIRC or some such, but it prolly isn't loaded. Modprobe can tell you if it's available load it. On Mar 21, 2014 12:41 PM, Dat G rhan...@gmx.de wrote: On 21/03/14 19:54, Francesco Turco wrote: On Fri, Mar 21, 2014, at 18:51, null_ptr wrote: Module for my sound card is running and SND_HDA_INPUT_BEEP is activated in kernel config. Am I missing something else? Perhaps you need CONFIG_INPUT_PCSPKR. I tried building with that and it didn't fix it. modprobe pcspkr doesn't change anything. It is still silent. I also tried building it in the kernel. On the other hand from what I understand the snd_hda_intel should be doing the beeps when the mainboard does not have a physical speaker on the mainboard and instead beeps through the regular sound device. At least on 3.10.25 I had not build the pcspkr module and the system beeped happily.
Re: [gentoo-user] No motherboard beep since kernel upgrade
On Fri, 21 Mar 2014 18:51:22 +0100 null_ptr rhan...@gmx.de wrote: Since the last kernel upgrade Which kernel package? From which version to which version? the motherboard beep of my system has gone silent. Can you diff the dmesg as well as `lsmod` output before and after? Module for my sound card is running and SND_HDA_INPUT_BEEP is activated in kernel config. Am I missing something else? Can you diff the kernel config file before and after? PS: You can use `diff A B | less` to compare file A and B; if you want to share it with us, you can do `diff A B /tmp/AB.diff` or so. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
[gentoo-user] Portable Gentoo (Pen Drive Linux)
Hi, Since I don't have a laptop, I'm thinking of installing Gentoo on my USB 3 pen drive. I'll use binpkgs from my desktop so that pen drive lives long. Has anybody tried Samsung's F2FS? I heard it performs better than the traditional ext4/xfs/etc on flash drives. Also the pen drive will be used on random hardware (which can be a laptop or a desktop), so what else do I need to consider other than using genkernel's default configuration (the livecd config, which enables all modules)?
