Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] A little help for non-native English speakers

[Neil Bothwick]

On Thu, 1 Feb 2018 21:06:15 -0700, Grant Taylor wrote:

> > And don't get me started on people using "which" when they should be
> > using "that".
> > 
> > (In this case, which is correct but it should have a preceding
> > comma).  
> 
> Please defend / expound upon your statement.  -  Because I'd like to
> learn.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_relative_clauses#That_or_which_for_non-human_antecedents

This mentions Fowlers, the reference that Peter said to read.

Unfortunately, the distinction, and so the subtleties of meaning, is
falling into disuse, even in professionally written copy.

But its a bad habit which I will never get into!


-- 
Neil Bothwick

The word 'Windows' is a word out of an old dialect of the Apaches.
It means: 'White man staring through glass-screen onto an hourglass...')


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Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] A little help for non-native English speakers

[Neil Bothwick]

On Fri, 2 Feb 2018 09:34:06 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:

> As a native English speaker I can never remember the precedence rules 
> about its and it's...

Its easy ;-)

> I vote we dump English in it's entirety and all switch to Python

Come one! Most people can't handle basic spelling and grammar, how are
they going to deal with indentation. We could use Perl. That would be
equally incomprehensible whether right or wrong.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

It's not who you know; it's whom you know.


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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: kernel choices for booting gentoo as guest in vbox vm

[Alexander Kapshuk]

On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 6:32 AM, Harry Putnam  wrote:
> Alexander Kapshuk  writes:
>
> [...]
>
>>> Can anyone tell me what they used to allow gentoo in vbox to boot?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Did you enable the recommended kernel config options as suggested here [1]?
>> [1] https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/VirtualBox
>
> I did go thru that page and `think' I checked them off but I came to
> that URL kind of late in the game... It would have no doubt went
> better if I'd caught that earlier on.
>
> It does appear to share some confusion with a couple of other pages.
> I don't have them to hand but one said flatly not to use `any' of the
> first bunch of framebuffer settings (1st and 2nd is based on how they
> are arranged in `menuconfig') and to only use the second set (a few
> lines below).
>
> They were saying that the kernel frame buffering will absolutely
> not work if one employs any of the settings from the first bunch.
>
>

The Kernel modesetting section of the xorg guide,
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Xorg/Guide, recommends disabling most of
the drivers listed in the 'Support for frame buffer devices' section
of .config.
I could be wrong, but I believe that applies to installing the kernel
on real hardware specifically.

For emulated environments, such as virtualbox, the instructions given
in the wiki article for virtualbox take precedence.
Virtualbox uses GPU frame buffers and has routines that convert GPU
memory layouts to kernel ones and back, as far as I can tell.

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] A little help for non-native English speakers

[Alan McKinnon]

hehehehe :-)

Old joke but a good one:

Q: Why don't we obfuscate perl?
A; Because that makes it more readable

On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 10:10 AM, Neil Bothwick  wrote:

> On Fri, 2 Feb 2018 09:34:06 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
>
> > As a native English speaker I can never remember the precedence rules
> > about its and it's...
>
> Its easy ;-)
>
> > I vote we dump English in it's entirety and all switch to Python
>
> Come one! Most people can't handle basic spelling and grammar, how are
> they going to deal with indentation. We could use Perl. That would be
> equally incomprehensible whether right or wrong.
>
>
> --
> Neil Bothwick
>
> It's not who you know; it's whom you know.
>



-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

[gentoo-user] sync fails : ERROR:root:OpenPGP verification failed

[Helmut Jarausch]

Hi,

I cannot run emerge --sync
I always get


ERROR:root:OpenPGP verification failed:
gpg: Signature made Fri 02 Feb 2018 09:38:18 AM UTC
gpg:using RSA key  
E1D6ABB63BFCFB4BA02FDF1CEC590EEAC9189250

gpg: Can't check signature: No public key


What might have been happened?

Many thanks for a hint,
Helmut

Re: [gentoo-user] sync fails : ERROR:root:OpenPGP verification failed

[Luigi Mantellini]

I think a trouble with ipv6.
For now I disabled at all the portage tree verification adding
"sync-rsync-verify-metamanifest = no" to repos.conf

ciao

luigi

On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 11:11 AM, Helmut Jarausch  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I cannot run emerge --sync
> I always get
>
>
> ERROR:root:OpenPGP verification failed:
> gpg: Signature made Fri 02 Feb 2018 09:38:18 AM UTC
> gpg:using RSA key E1D6ABB63BFCFB4BA02FDF1CEC590EEAC9189250
> gpg: Can't check signature: No public key
>
>
> What might have been happened?
>
> Many thanks for a hint,
> Helmut
>



-- 
Luigi 'Comio' Mantellini
R&D - Software
Industrie Dial Face S.p.A.
Via Canzo, 4
20068 Peschiera Borromeo (MI), Italy

Tel.: +39 02 5167 2813
Fax: +39 02 5167 2459
web: www.idf-hit.com
mail: luigi.mantell...@idf-hit.com

Re: [gentoo-user] sync fails : ERROR:root:OpenPGP verification failed

[Floyd Anderson]

On Fri, 02 Feb 2018 11:11:38 +0100
Helmut Jarausch  wrote:

Hi,

I cannot run emerge --sync
I always get


ERROR:root:OpenPGP verification failed:
gpg: Signature made Fri 02 Feb 2018 09:38:18 AM UTC
gpg:using RSA key 
E1D6ABB63BFCFB4BA02FDF1CEC590EEAC9189250

gpg: Can't check signature: No public key


What might have been happened?



Have a look at: 


--
Regards,
floyd

Re: [gentoo-user] sync fails : ERROR:root:OpenPGP verification failed

[Luigi Mantellini]

See https://bugs.gentoo.org/645194

should be solved by last portage (maybe).

ciao

luigi

On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 11:13 AM, Luigi Mantellini <
luigi.mantellini...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I think a trouble with ipv6.
> For now I disabled at all the portage tree verification adding
> "sync-rsync-verify-metamanifest = no" to repos.conf
>
> ciao
>
> luigi
>
> On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 11:11 AM, Helmut Jarausch 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I cannot run emerge --sync
>> I always get
>>
>>
>> ERROR:root:OpenPGP verification failed:
>> gpg: Signature made Fri 02 Feb 2018 09:38:18 AM UTC
>> gpg:using RSA key E1D6ABB63BFCFB4BA02FDF1CEC590E
>> EAC9189250
>> gpg: Can't check signature: No public key
>>
>>
>> What might have been happened?
>>
>> Many thanks for a hint,
>> Helmut
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Luigi 'Comio' Mantellini
> R&D - Software
> Industrie Dial Face S.p.A.
> Via Canzo, 4
> 20068 Peschiera Borromeo (MI), Italy
>
> Tel.: +39 02 5167 2813 <+39%2002%205167%202813>
> Fax: +39 02 5167 2459 <+39%2002%205167%202459>
> web: www.idf-hit.com
> mail: luigi.mantell...@idf-hit.com
>



-- 
Luigi 'Comio' Mantellini
R&D - Software
Industrie Dial Face S.p.A.
Via Canzo, 4
20068 Peschiera Borromeo (MI), Italy

Tel.: +39 02 5167 2813
Fax: +39 02 5167 2459
web: www.idf-hit.com
mail: luigi.mantell...@idf-hit.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: gcc 7.3 + kernel 4.15 = spectre_v2 fixed

[Mick]

On Wednesday, 31 January 2018 12:20:51 GMT Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> On 31/01/18 14:04, Mick wrote:
> > Just to dilute my confusion on what I should do to keep desktops safe(r),
> > would someone please clarify:
> > 
> > Is it necessary to keyword gcc 7.3 + kernel 4.15 and emerge kernel 4.15
> > with gcc 7.3, or wait until these versions have been stabilised in the
> > tree?
> > 
> > What gcc version shall I use to update @world from then on?
> > 
> > PS. Some desktops are Intel, some are AMD and I also have 3-4 devices with
> > ARM in them ...
> 
> At the moment, you do need GCC 7.3. However, there is talk about these
> new flags being ported to GCC 6 and possibly even older versions.
> 
> As for the kernel, you don't need 4.15. 4.14 is the latest LTS kernel,
> and it has the needed patches. I think 4.9 (the previous LTS kernel) has
> them too.

Kernel 4.14.15 has the latest patches, so I stayed with the 4.14 series.


> Currently, once you enable CONFIG_RETPOLINE in the kernel config and
> rebuild with GCC 7.3, you should have all currently available kernel
> mitigations. Which currently are:
> 
>$ cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/*
>Mitigation: PTI
>Vulnerable
>Mitigation: Full generic retpoline

I'm good here:

$ dmesg | grep -i Spectre 
[0.011822] Spectre V2 mitigation: Mitigation: Full generic retpoline

although this post indicates Skylake may still be vulnerable:

 https://lkml.org/lkml/2018/1/4/724

Anyway, as I understand it, we'll have to wait for gcc-8.1 in March, which 
utilises 'gcc -mindirect-branch=thunk-extern' to get the benefit of the 
retpoline kernel patch.


> However, improvements to these mitigations will from now on happen for
> kernel 4.16 first and backported later. 4.16 for example got mitigations
> for ARM. It's how kernel upstream works; new stuff is done in the
> current development version, and backported later to still supported
> versions.

Spectre_v1 still shown as vulnerable on both Intel and AMD.  Is there a fix 
planned for this?

-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] sync fails : ERROR:root:OpenPGP verification failed

[Helmut Jarausch]

On 02/02/2018 11:38:54 AM, Floyd Anderson wrote:

On Fri, 02 Feb 2018 11:11:38 +0100
Helmut Jarausch  wrote:

Hi,

I cannot run emerge --sync
I always get


ERROR:root:OpenPGP verification failed:
gpg: Signature made Fri 02 Feb 2018 09:38:18 AM UTC
gpg:using RSA key
E1D6ABB63BFCFB4BA02FDF1CEC590EEAC9189250
gpg: Can't check signature: No public key


What might have been happened?



Have a look at: 




Many thanks Floyd!

I've reemerged portage- which fixed it.
Helmut

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] A little help for non-native English speakers

[Grant Taylor]

On 02/02/2018 01:10 AM, Neil Bothwick wrote:

We could use Perl.


I see your Perl and raise you Lisp.



--
Grant. . . .
unix || die



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[gentoo-user] Heads Up - glibc-2.27 breaks my system

[Helmut Jarausch]

With glibc-2.27 installed I cannot compile anything, since most  
packages try to include 

which doesn't exit any more.
And downgrading glibc using a binary package doesn't work.

It looks like I have to restore my system from a recent backup,
very annoying!

(I know that glibc-2.27 is masked, but I didn't expect it to be bomb  
like that)

Helmut

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] A little help for non-native English speakers

[Grant Taylor]

On 02/02/2018 01:03 AM, Neil Bothwick wrote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_relative_clauses#That_or_which_for_non-human_antecedents

This mentions Fowlers, the reference that Peter said to read.


Thank you.

Unfortunately, the distinction, and so the subtleties of meaning, is 
falling into disuse, even in professionally written copy.


Oh my.  I don't think I've ever run into this before.  But, it's only 
been the last decade or so that I cared enough to pay attention.



But its a bad habit which I will never get into!


Couldn't you have said "…habit that I…" in the fact that you were 
referencing a specific habit, not just a generic place holder?


If I'm understanding things correctly.



--
Grant. . . .
unix || die



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Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] A little help for non-native English speakers

[Peter Humphrey]

On Friday, 2 February 2018 20:05:21 GMT Grant Taylor wrote:
> On 02/02/2018 01:03 AM, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> > But its a bad habit which I will never get into!
> 
> Couldn't you have said "…habit that I…" in the fact that you were
> referencing a specific habit, not just a generic place holder?

Nope. He said it's a bad habit. Then he said he'll never get into it. So 
'which' was right; he was merely adding another thought, not limiting what 
he'd said before.

It has nothing to do with place holders; it's about defining or not 
defining. As Fowler made clear, though his later revisionists have watered 
him down.

-- 
Regards,
Peter.

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] A little help for non-native English speakers

[allan gottlieb]

On Fri, Feb 02 2018, Grant Taylor wrote:

> On 02/02/2018 01:03 AM, Neil Bothwick wrote:
>
>> But its a bad habit which I will never get into!
>
> Couldn't you have said "…habit that I…" in the fact that you were
> referencing a specific habit, not just a generic place holder?
>
> If I'm understanding things correctly.

I would think "... habit, which"

"I will never get into" is a non-restrictive clause giving extra
information about the habit.

allan

Re: [gentoo-user] Heads Up - glibc-2.27 breaks my system

[Floyd Anderson]

Hi Helmut,

On Fri, 02 Feb 2018 18:34:23 +0100
Helmut Jarausch  wrote:
With glibc-2.27 installed I cannot compile anything, since most 
packages try to include 

which doesn't exit any more.
And downgrading glibc using a binary package doesn't work.

It looks like I have to restore my system from a recent backup,
very annoying!


Restoring your backup is probably faster but I want to point out the 
possibility of an intermediate build chroot [1] to get back a working 
toolchain. This helped me in the past to solve troubles with glibc and 
when I didn’t knew about buildpkg/buildsyspkg for FEATURES variable. 



Link:
 - [1] 


Good luck, bleeding edge(r) and thank you for the warning.


--
Regards,
floyd

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] A little help for non-native English speakers

[Neil Bothwick]

On Fri, 02 Feb 2018 20:34:04 +, Peter Humphrey wrote:

> > > But its a bad habit which I will never get into!  
> > 
> > Couldn't you have said "…habit that I…" in the fact that you were
> > referencing a specific habit, not just a generic place holder?  
> 
> Nope. He said it's a bad habit. Then he said he'll never get into it.
> So 'which' was right; he was merely adding another thought, not
> limiting what he'd said before.

Actually, it was a deliberately poor sentence, in several ways -
channelling my inner Ernie Wise ;-)


-- 
Neil Bothwick

"Everything takes longer than expected, even when you take
  into account Hoffstead's Law." - Hoffstead's Law


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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] A little help for non-native English speakers

[Wol's lists]

On 02/02/18 00:08, Jack wrote:


 >> "eg", which, phonetically, is the start of the word "example".
 >
 > A non-native speaker of English, or a non-native speaker of Latin?


And Latin's descendants (which are mutually comprehensible) are actually 
the most widely spoken first language in Europe. I always thought Europe 
should adopt Modern Latin (however you care to define it) as its main 
official language.


(Spanish, Portuguese, and Italian put together are very similar and are 
larger than any other grouping of similar European language, excluding 
perhaps Russian which is spoken mostly by non-EU nationals.)


Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] A little help for non-native English speakers

[Wol's lists]

On 02/02/18 17:28, Grant Taylor wrote:

On 02/02/2018 01:10 AM, Neil Bothwick wrote:

We could use Perl.


I see your Perl and raise you Lisp.


Or the "language to replace all languages", PL/1

Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] Heads Up - glibc-2.27 breaks my system

[John Campbell]

On 02/02/2018 01:07 PM, Floyd Anderson wrote:
> Hi Helmut,
> 
> On Fri, 02 Feb 2018 18:34:23 +0100
> Helmut Jarausch  wrote:
>> With glibc-2.27 installed I cannot compile anything, since most
>> packages try to include 
>> which doesn't exit any more.
>> And downgrading glibc using a binary package doesn't work.
>>
>> It looks like I have to restore my system from a recent backup,
>> very annoying!
> 
> Restoring your backup is probably faster but I want to point out the
> possibility of an intermediate build chroot [1] to get back a working
> toolchain. This helped me in the past to solve troubles with glibc and
> when I didn’t knew about buildpkg/buildsyspkg for FEATURES variable.

It's been fixed now.  glibc-2.27-r1 is in the tree and re-instates the
x32 libs and headers.

I just emerged the new lib and everything is find.  I have
FEATURES=preserve-libs set so I'm not sure how the missing x32 libs
might effect your compile but I had no issues.

Re: [gentoo-user] Heads Up - glibc-2.27 breaks my system

[Dale]

John Campbell wrote:
> On 02/02/2018 01:07 PM, Floyd Anderson wrote:
>> Hi Helmut,
>>
>> On Fri, 02 Feb 2018 18:34:23 +0100
>> Helmut Jarausch  wrote:
>>> With glibc-2.27 installed I cannot compile anything, since most
>>> packages try to include 
>>> which doesn't exit any more.
>>> And downgrading glibc using a binary package doesn't work.
>>>
>>> It looks like I have to restore my system from a recent backup,
>>> very annoying!
>> Restoring your backup is probably faster but I want to point out the
>> possibility of an intermediate build chroot [1] to get back a working
>> toolchain. This helped me in the past to solve troubles with glibc and
>> when I didn’t knew about buildpkg/buildsyspkg for FEATURES variable.
> It's been fixed now.  glibc-2.27-r1 is in the tree and re-instates the
> x32 libs and headers.
>
> I just emerged the new lib and everything is find.  I have
> FEATURES=preserve-libs set so I'm not sure how the missing x32 libs
> might effect your compile but I had no issues.
>
>
>


While on this topic, I have a question about glibc.  I have it set in
make.conf to save the binary packages.  Generally I use it when I need
to go back shortly after a upgrade, usually Firefox or something. 
However, this package is different since going back a version isn't a
good idea.  My question tho, what if one does go back a version using
those saved binary packages?  Has anyone ever did it and it work or did
it and it fail miserably? 

While at it, if a upgrade really breaks a system, what is the *correct*
thing to do?  Wait for a new fixed version, even if it breaks things in
the meantime?  Just curious. 

Thanks to the OP for the heads up.  I run stable on that BUT it's still
a good idea to warn others, who may not run stable and not know the
problem, yet. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

[gentoo-user] "eselect (c)python --list" corrupted somehow?

[tuxic]

Hi,

I want to compile/install FreeCAD. I checked my python/cpython
installation, because FreeCAD wants python 2.7

I got this output

/root>eselect python list --cpython 
Available Python  interpreters, in order of preference:
  [1]   python3.5
  [2]   python3.4 (uninstalled)
  [3]   python2.7
  [4]   python3.4 (uninstalled)
  [5]   python3.6
  [6]   python3.4 (uninstalled)

Why it is listing python versions, when '--cpython' is set?
Why do I have doubled entries?


Thank you very much in advance for any help!

Cheers!
Meino