[gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo Hardened vs Kali Linux
On 2018-04-02 21:14, Grant Taylor wrote: > Though I do think that reading the Linux from Scratch book and doing > the install along with the book will likely teach more about Linux (as > it existed at the time) Does that mean LFS is dead? That would be a pity. -- Please don't Cc: me privately on mailing lists and Usenet, if you also post the followup to the list or newsgroup. To reply privately _only_ on Usenet and on broken lists which rewrite From, fetch the TXT record for no-use.mooo.com.
[gentoo-user] Warning: stabilized glibc breaks encryption in some cases
See bug 637164, including my last comment -- Please don't Cc: me privately on mailing lists and Usenet, if you also post the followup to the list or newsgroup. To reply privately _only_ on Usenet and on broken lists which rewrite From, fetch the TXT record for no-use.mooo.com.
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Hardened vs Kali Linux
On 04/02/2018 08:47 PM, Adam Carter wrote: If you haven't installed and maintained a gentoo system before, its a great way of building a solid foundation of knowledge. Agreed. Though I do think that reading the Linux from Scratch book and doing the install along with the book will likely teach more about Linux (as it existed at the time) than Gentoo does or will. Nothing against Gentoo. It's just that I think that LFS goes into much more detail. (At least the last time I checked.) If you have, then its a matter of taste, so try both and see what you like. Yep. -- Grant. . . . unix || die
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Hardened vs Kali Linux
> > I want to learn from scratch securing Linux and ethical hacking. Should I >> do as the most people so install Kali Linux on virtual machine or install >> Gentoo Hardened with Pentoo overlay on my PC? I heard a lot of negative >> opinions about Kali Linux. >> > If you haven't installed and maintained a gentoo system before, its a great way of building a solid foundation of knowledge. If you have, then its a matter of taste, so try both and see what you like.
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Hardened vs Kali Linux
Do people actually dual boot with pentesting distros? I was always > under the impression you were supposed to load it from removable > storage Blackhats would load from removable storage, but I imagine whitehats would prefer a stable setup with easy retention of info.
[gentoo-user] KDE update revdep-rebuild.sh fail
I updated my PC today, and there was a lot of KDE-related packages being updated. As part of my usual update procedure I depclean'ed and ran revdep-rebuild.sh - and it wants to rebuild every single package on my system? Surely that has to be some kind of mistake? Anyone have any insight? Dan revdep-rebuild.sh output below: # revdep-rebuild.sh * Configuring search environment for revdep-rebuild * Checking reverse dependencies * Packages containing binaries and libraries broken by a package update * will be emerged. * Collecting system binaries and libraries * Generated new 1_files.rr * Collecting complete LD_LIBRARY_PATH * Generated new 2_ldpath.rr * Checking dynamic linking consistency [ 83% ] * broken /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plugins/platforms/KWinQpaPlugin.so /usr/lib64/qt5/plu
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Firefox and addons no longer supported question
Philip Webb wrote: > 180402 Dale wrote: >> After each period at the end of a sentence, I put in two spaces, not one. >> Something I was taught years ago somewhere and still do. >> I only put one after a comma tho. > That is correct professional secretarial style, which I always follow too. > >> Could that be triggering something ? >> I'm using Seamonkey set to send plain text to anything Gentoo related. > IIRC HTML defaults to collapse double spaces to single ; > word-processors do so too, if you don't tell them not to. > When I get my copy back, it still contains two spaces after each sentence. It seems Seamonkey at least is working as it should in that regard. I'm not sure what others are seeing or should be seeing tho, other than what I sent of course. ;-) Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Hardened vs Kali Linux
On Mon, Apr 2, 2018 at 2:02 PM, taii...@gmx.com wrote: > /* loading hacking tools /* > > I met someone who said he games on kaliwhy? all the elite hackers > use it - it is a very powerful linux that is perfect for dual-booting > with windows 10 due to its high level of security. > Do people actually dual boot with pentesting distros? I was always under the impression you were supposed to load it from removable storage.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Firefox and addons no longer supported question
180402 Dale wrote: > After each period at the end of a sentence, I put in two spaces, not one. > Something I was taught years ago somewhere and still do. > I only put one after a comma tho. That is correct professional secretarial style, which I always follow too. > Could that be triggering something ? > I'm using Seamonkey set to send plain text to anything Gentoo related. IIRC HTML defaults to collapse double spaces to single ; word-processors do so too, if you don't tell them not to. -- ,, SUPPORT ___//___, Philip Webb ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto TRANSIT`-O--O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca
Re: [gentoo-user] bash scrip prompt after bootstrap
On Mon 2 Apr 2018 at 14:36:00 -0400, Tom H wrote: > You have "dev/tty". It should be "/dev/tty". Thank you for catching that typo, I lost the slash somewhere between the first and second syntax. In my case it was harmless, because I chrooted into a filesystem root, such that dev/tty == /dev/tty, and I do not see how this is related to Thelma’s error messages. Thelma, I suggest you use Ian’s solution, it is much simpler than mine. If you want we can continue looking why my solution does not work for you. Sincerely, Bas -- Sebastiaan L. Zoutendijk | slzoutend...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Firefox and addons no longer supported question
Martin Vaeth wrote: > Daniel Frey wrote: >> On 04/02/18 08:21, Ian Zimmerman wrote: >>> BTW, your mails are full of strange space characters >> I don't see any extra spaces in Dale's message > After every "." there is a non-breakable space inserted. > I guess this is an attempt of some editor to non-french-space > ASCII texts. > > > I wonder, after each period at the end of a sentence, I put in two spaces, not one. Something I was taught years ago somewhere and still do. I only put one after a comma tho. Could that be triggering something? I'm using Seamonkey which is set to send plain text to anything Gentoo related. Other than that, it's set the way it is. I'm not sure if I can change anything else on it. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Hardened vs Kali Linux
/* loading hacking tools /* I met someone who said he games on kaliwhy? all the elite hackers use it - it is a very powerful linux that is perfect for dual-booting with windows 10 due to its high level of security.
[gentoo-user] Re: bash scrip prompt after bootstrap
On 2018-04-02 19:18, Bas Zoutendijk wrote: > That is exactly what I meant to do, and I admit it is rather kludgey. > Because of the single quotes, which are around everything but $HOST, > the double quotes are literally echoed. The child shell will > therefore see the PS1 definition surrounded by double quotes. The > echo part should be equivalent to this, which may be clearer: > > echo "export PS1=\"(chroot $HOST) \$PS1\"; exec > For the record, my original Goldberg device works for me. /How/ it > works is another question, on which we will hopefully reach consensus > at some point. I see. Color me stumped; your solution should work. -- Please don't Cc: me privately on mailing lists and Usenet, if you also post the followup to the list or newsgroup. To reply privately _only_ on Usenet and on broken lists which rewrite From, fetch the TXT record for no-use.mooo.com.
Re: [gentoo-user] bash scrip prompt after bootstrap
On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 10:54 PM, wrote:
> On 03/30/2018 11:10 AM, Bas Zoutendijk wrote:
>> On Fri 30 Mar 2018 at 10:33:45 -0600, the...@sys-concept.com wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm using a scrip to log-in/boot strap the system over NFS
>>>
>>> -
>>> #!/bin/sh
>>>
>>> HOST=${0##*/}
>>> HOST=${HOST#*-}
>>> ROOT=/mnt/${HOST}
>>> ...
>>> exec chroot '${ROOT}' /bin/bash -l
>>> ---
>>>
>>> When I'm presented with bash prompt, it is the same as the one I logged
>>> IN from. So to eliminate the confusion I would like to change (add to)
>>> the bash prompt the "HOST' name I log-in to.
>>>
>>> When I log-in I'm presented with: "syscon3 #"
>>> I would like it to be: ROOT+HOST
>>> eg.: syscon3-eden
>>
>> To change the prompt you want to set $PS1. For example:
>>
>> echo 'export PS1="some string"; exec > /bin/bash -i
>>
>> This command tells the Bash inside the chroot to first execute
>>
>> export PS1="some string"
>>
>> and then to continue as a regular log-in shell. The special syntax of
>> the $PS1 string in described in the Bash man page. If you just want to
>> prepend a string, you do not even have to bother with crafting a syntax:
>>
>> echo 'export PS1="(chroot '$HOST') $PS1"; exec > $ROOT /bin/bash -i
>
> The above syntax produced an error:
>
> chroot-eden: line 30: syntax error near unexpected token `('
> chroot-eden: line 30: `echo 'export PS1="(chroot '$HOST') $PS1"; exec
>
> I've tried it without brackets "()" no effect.
You have "dev/tty". It should be "/dev/tty".
Also, I'd expect "'$HOST'" to print out "'hostname'" rather than
"hostname". Is this what you want?
This is a snippet from the default Debian bashrc. You have to edit
"/etc/debian_chroot" and use a similar PS1 in the to-be-chrooted
system for this to take effect.
if [ -z "$debian_chroot" ]; then
PS1h="\h"
else
PS1h="($debian_chroot)"
fi
# Set options depending on terminal type
if [ -x /usr/bin/tput ] && tput setaf 1 >&/dev/null; then
# The terminal supports colour: assume it complies with ECMA-48
# (ISO/IEC-6429). This is almost always the case...
# Make ls(1) use colour in its listings
if [ -x /usr/bin/dircolors ]; then
alias ls="ls -v --color=auto"
eval $(/usr/bin/dircolors --sh)
fi
# Set the terminal prompt
if [ $(id -u) -ne 0 ]; then
PS1="\[\e[42;30m\]\u@$PS1h\[\e[37m\]:\[\e[30m\]\w\[\e[0m\] \\\$ "
else
# Root user gets a nice RED prompt!
PS1="\[\e[41;37;1m\]\u@$PS1h\[\e[30m\]:\[\e[37m\]\w\[\e[0m\] \\\$ "
fi
else
# The terminal does not support colour
PS1="\u@$PS1h:\w \\\$ "
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Firefox and addons no longer supported question
180402 Ian Zimmerman wrote: > On 2018-04-02 08:26, Daniel Frey wrote: >> I don't see any extra spaces in Dale's message, you should also >> probably check your local configuration. > They render fine for me in mutt/neomutt, too. Same here. > I can only see the strange spaces in my editor (emacs 24) > when I start replying to him and quote his material. No problem with Vim. -- ,, SUPPORT ___//___, Philip Webb ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto TRANSIT`-O--O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: bash scrip prompt after bootstrap
On Mon 2 Apr 2018 at 09:25:57 -0700, Ian Zimmerman wrote: > Ah, this is a comedy of errors. You've missed my intended point, which > was wrong; but now I see the real problem. > > I missed the outermost single quotes in your echo command, so I thought > the parent shell would strip the double quotes and then the child shell > would see unquoted whitespace on the right side of the export. All of this because of one Rube Goldberg device ... At least we are converging to understanding each other. > But the real problem is that quotes (either kind by itself or mixed) do > not nest. So the first single quote will be paired with the one before > $HOST and terminated by it; and the double quote after = will remain > unbalanced and unterminated. That is exactly what I meant to do, and I admit it is rather kludgey. Because of the single quotes, which are around everything but $HOST, the double quotes are literally echoed. The child shell will therefore see the PS1 definition surrounded by double quotes. The echo part should be equivalent to this, which may be clearer: echo "export PS1=\"(chroot $HOST) \$PS1\"; exec > And now I learn, at last, that Bas is the Dutch nickname for Sebastiaan. > Thanks for that ;-) There is also Bastiaan and Sebas. Note that a short form can also be someone’s official given name, and that ‘nicknames’ are more formal in Dutch than in most languages. Many nicknames are given at birth and used in both formal and informal social situations. Calling someone by a different nickname or their full name might not be appreciated. Not everyone has a nickname. Not every Bas is a Sebastiaan and not every Sebastiaan is a Bas. Sincerely, Bas -- Sebastiaan L. Zoutendijk | slzoutend...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] bash scrip prompt after bootstrap
On 04/02/2018 03:29 AM, Bas Zoutendijk wrote:
> On Mon 2 Apr 2018 at 10:25:45 +0200, David Haller wrote:
>> You owe me a dollar!
>>
>> export PS1="$(chroot '$HOST') $PS1";
>> ^
>
> The text within the parentheses was meant as literal text, the chroot
> command is executed rightward of the pipe. I could just as well write
>
> echo 'export PS1="You have chrooted into '$HOST' from $PS1"; exec
>
> No dollars necessary.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Bas
>
Here is original script, to boot-strap computer over nfs (it WORKS!)
--
#!/bin/sh
set -x
HOST=${0##*/}
HOST=${HOST#*-}
ROOT=/mnt/${HOST}
PS1="${HOST}"
mkdir -p --mode=0755 "${ROOT}"
#env -i - HOME="/root" TERM="${TERM}" exec sudo unshare -m /bin/sh -c "
exec sudo unshare -m /bin/sh -c "
set -e
mount -t nfs -o rw,noatime,nocto,actimeo=60,lookupcache=positive,vers=4,fsc
'${HOST}:/' '${ROOT}'
mount --bind {,'${ROOT}'}/dev
mount --bind {,'${ROOT}'}/dev/pts
mount --bind {,'${ROOT}'}/dev/shm
mount --bind {,'${ROOT}'}/proc
mount --bind {,'${ROOT}'}/sys
mount --bind {,'${ROOT}'}/usr/local/portage
mount --bind {,'${ROOT}'}/usr/portage
mount --bind {,'${ROOT}'}/var/cache/edb/dep
mount --bind {,'${ROOT}'}/var/tmp/portage
exec chroot '${ROOT}' /bin/bash -i
env-update
source /etc/profile
"
The above script works when I run
chroot-eden - which is a just a link to chroot.sh
Not sure if these two lines are needed, but it works with or without them:
env-update
source /etc/profile
---result-
syscon3 /home/thelma # sh chroot-eden
+ HOST=chroot-eden
+ HOST=eden
+ ROOT=/mnt/eden
+ PS1=eden
+ mkdir -p --mode=0755 /mnt/eden
+ exec sudo unshare -m /bin/sh -c '
set -e
mount -t nfs -o rw,noatime,nocto,actimeo=60,lookupcache=positive,vers=4,fsc
'\''eden:/'\'' '\''/mnt/eden'\''
mount --bind {,'\''/mnt/eden'\''}/dev
mount --bind {,'\''/mnt/eden'\''}/dev/pts
mount --bind {,'\''/mnt/eden'\''}/dev/shm
mount --bind {,'\''/mnt/eden'\''}/proc
mount --bind {,'\''/mnt/eden'\''}/sys
mount --bind {,'\''/mnt/eden'\''}/usr/local/portage
mount --bind {,'\''/mnt/eden'\''}/usr/portage
mount --bind {,'\''/mnt/eden'\''}/var/cache/edb/dep
mount --bind {,'\''/mnt/eden'\''}/var/tmp/portage
exec chroot '\''/mnt/eden'\'' /bin/bash -i
env-update
source /etc/profile
'
syscon3 / #
end result
The above execution shows that "PS1=eden" but the prompt shows: "syscon3 / #"
(not eden).
I've tried the below lines they don't work, I get a syntax error:
1.)
echo 'export PS1="$(chroot '$HOST') $PS1"; exec
[gentoo-user] Re: bash scrip prompt after bootstrap
On 2018-04-02 17:55, Bas Zoutendijk wrote: > What my syntax is doing is to let the $PS1 inside the PS1 definition > be evaluated by the chroot shell. Suppose you run this command with > HOST=eden and ROOT=/mnt/eden: > > echo 'export PS1="(chroot '$HOST') $PS1"; exec $ROOT /bin/bash -i > > The parent shell will translate this into > > echo 'export PS1="(chroot 'eden') $PS1"; exec /mnt/eden /bin/bash -i > > This is where the purpose of the 's around $HOST shows: $HOST is > outside the single quotes, so gets substituted, while the rest of the > string, notably $PS1, remains the same. The child shell will > therefore receive input > > export PS1="(chroot eden) $PS1"; exec > which will prepend the desired text to the child shell’s prompt. Ah, this is a comedy of errors. You've missed my intended point, which was wrong; but now I see the real problem. I missed the outermost single quotes in your echo command, so I thought the parent shell would strip the double quotes and then the child shell would see unquoted whitespace on the right side of the export. But the real problem is that quotes (either kind by itself or mixed) do not nest. So the first single quote will be paired with the one before $HOST and terminated by it; and the double quote after = will remain unbalanced and unterminated. > Sebastiaan L. Zoutendijk | slzoutend...@gmail.com And now I learn, at last, that Bas is the Dutch nickname for Sebastiaan. Thanks for that ;-) -- Please don't Cc: me privately on mailing lists and Usenet, if you also post the followup to the list or newsgroup. To reply privately _only_ on Usenet and on broken lists which rewrite From, fetch the TXT record for no-use.mooo.com.
[gentoo-user] Re: Firefox and addons no longer supported question
Daniel Frey wrote: > On 04/02/18 08:21, Ian Zimmerman wrote: >> >> BTW, your mails are full of strange space characters > > I don't see any extra spaces in Dale's message After every "." there is a non-breakable space inserted. I guess this is an attempt of some editor to non-french-space ASCII texts.
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Hardened vs Kali Linux
On 03/31/2018 09:37 AM, Hubert Hauser wrote: Hello! Hi, I want to learn from scratch securing Linux and ethical hacking. Should I do as the most people so install Kali Linux on virtual machine or install Gentoo Hardened with Pentoo overlay on my PC? I heard a lot of negative opinions about Kali Linux. I get tired of all the various (what I consider to be) "noise" about "Learn Kali Linux". IMHO Kali is just another distrobution of Linux. It just happens to be one targeting security in that it has a lot of security related tools. Mucht he same way that various live / recovery distrobutions have lots of recovery / file system / partition / etc tools on them. Learn the /concepts/ behind the various /programs/ that Kali packiges up neatly with a bow on top. Once you know these concepts, you can easily use the various programs, a.k.a. /tools/, on any distribution, including Gentoo. So … you can very likely learn things on Gentoo (any profile) without too much trouble. That being said, many "Learn Kali Linux" turnkey courses will be geared to and assuming that you are using Kali Linux. This is probably okay and likely just means that you will need to translate from Kali to Gentoo (or any other distro) if (when) things differe. Depending with your comfort to do such translation, you may find that a Kali VM may be easier and more closely match any such (noise) training courses. -- Grant. . . . unix || die
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: bash scrip prompt after bootstrap
On Mon 2 Apr 2018 at 08:14:40 -0700, Ian Zimmerman wrote: > This pipe is something of a Rube Goldberg device. Why not pass the > variable directly: > > chroot $ROOT /usr/bin/env PS1="(chrooted to $HOST) $PS1" bash That is of course a lot more elegant, I must have been half-asleep when I wrote that pipe the first time. > In fact I think I see a problem with your way: the chrooted shell sees a > command like > > export PS1=You have chrooted into 'eden' from root > > which obviously cannot work. (No clue if that is why it breaks for > Thelma, and no clue why it works for you :P) What my syntax is doing is to let the $PS1 inside the PS1 definition be evaluated by the chroot shell. Suppose you run this command with HOST=eden and ROOT=/mnt/eden: echo 'export PS1="(chroot '$HOST') $PS1"; exec
[gentoo-user] Re: Firefox and addons no longer supported question
On 2018-04-02 08:26, Daniel Frey wrote: > I don't see any extra spaces in Dale's message, you should also > probably check your local configuration. They render fine for me in mutt/neomutt, too. I can only see the strange spaces in my editor (emacs 24) when I start replying to him and quote his material. I already have elisp code to massage the quotes so I'm not going to be insistent about it. -- Please don't Cc: me privately on mailing lists and Usenet, if you also post the followup to the list or newsgroup. To reply privately _only_ on Usenet and on broken lists which rewrite From, fetch the TXT record for no-use.mooo.com.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Firefox and addons no longer supported question
On 04/02/18 08:21, Ian Zimmerman wrote: > On 2018-04-02 03:59, Dale wrote: > >> That last bit should read can NOT win. Brain didn't quite make it all >> the way to keyboard. lol > > I read it as beautifully subtle sarcasm, so it worked fine as it was. > > BTW, your mails are full of strange space characters - I didn't > investigate if they're some Unicode spaces or the Windows codepage > variety. Can you turn that off? > > ;-) > I don't see any extra spaces in Dale's message, you should also probably check your local configuration. Dan
[gentoo-user] Re: Firefox and addons no longer supported question
On 2018-04-02 03:59, Dale wrote: > That last bit should read can NOT win. Brain didn't quite make it all > the way to keyboard. lol I read it as beautifully subtle sarcasm, so it worked fine as it was. BTW, your mails are full of strange space characters - I didn't investigate if they're some Unicode spaces or the Windows codepage variety. Can you turn that off? ;-) -- Please don't Cc: me privately on mailing lists and Usenet, if you also post the followup to the list or newsgroup. To reply privately _only_ on Usenet and on broken lists which rewrite From, fetch the TXT record for no-use.mooo.com.
[gentoo-user] Re: bash scrip prompt after bootstrap
On 2018-04-02 11:29, Bas Zoutendijk wrote: > echo 'export PS1="You have chrooted into '$HOST' from $PS1"; exec \ >
[gentoo-user] Re: [TOT: Total offtopic]
On 2018-04-02 01:28, taii...@gmx.com wrote: > I have one from almost 10 years ago, whats the difference :[? how can > you tell? You mean Unicomp? At that time, although they were not quite the old IBM, they were close, probably still using the original design to which they had bought rights. But 2 or 3 years after that they "jumped the shark"; new models started requiring non-uniform pressure to activate different keys, some keys requiring excessive pressure, some keys started to stick, and the final straw was when keys started to fall off after light usage. This seems to be a universal pattern in consumer capitalism: start with a great product, acquire a cult clientele, then gradually increase profits by cutting costs, while relying on the cult to keep customers coming even for the inferior product. -- Please don't Cc: me privately on mailing lists and Usenet, if you also post the followup to the list or newsgroup. To reply privately _only_ on Usenet and on broken lists which rewrite From, fetch the TXT record for no-use.mooo.com.
[gentoo-user] Re: Firefox and addons no longer supported question
Bill Kenworthy wrote: > On 02/04/18 13:41, Martin Vaeth wrote: >> Bill Kenworthy wrote: >>> I use the palemoon overlay. >> There is also the octopus overlay. >> Anyway, both can only react to upstream. >> >>> builds fine with gcc-6.4 >> Yes, but it has random crashes which do not occur with gcc-5, >> and as somebody familiar with the code posted somewhere, >> the reasons are quite some assumptions in assembler code >> which should not have been made. (I simply repeated these >> claims without checking them.) >> >> Upstream knows about it and therefore officially does not > > Pretty stable for me - ymmv. Yes. I also used to compile it with gcc-6. It segfaulted only occassionally unless you visit "wrong" pages. But it is not the user experience why I mentioned this but the underlying problem these instabilities indicate. (And BTW, with gcc-7 I never succeeded to compile; I had patched some dozen problems, but eventually decided it is too much work.)
[gentoo-user] Re: Firefox and addons no longer supported question
Walter Dnes wrote: > Mind you, the Pale Moon team may not > have the staffing level required to write a new compiler, maintain a > politically correct "community", integrate real-time-chat into the > browser, integrate "Pocket" into the browser, rewrite the GUI every so > often, yada, yada, yada. Why do you mention only some irrelevant points here, ignoring the crucial ones (on top of them: security) which I was talking about? The only relevant thing of those you mention is "new compiler": It is really security relevant to have bindings to current C++ libraries, especially if the other libraries use them. (Reasons: bugfixes and unpredictable side effects.) And if you mean rust: I expect that this will give (and probably already gave) an enormous security boost to firefox. >> The decision to stick with legacy extension api completely excludes >> that there is some convergence of the fork in the future. > > As an end-user, I think you're missing the whole point of Pale Moon. > If I really wanted a Chrome-like browser, I'd use Chrome in the first > place. I, and a lot of other people, switched to Pale Moon precisely > because we *DO NOT WANT* what Firefox has become. To quote an old > meme... I didn't leave Firefox... Firefox left me. Again, I was not talking about relatively irrelevant things like user experience here. As I said, I also liked palemoon in the beginning. It simply turned out an unrealistic project so that I found myself forced to decide to not use it anymore due to security considerations. >> Also the refusal to implement webextension apis (which is consequent, >> since it is hardly possible to maintain 2 more and more diverging >> apis) has the side effect that only obsolete versions of the actively >> maintained extensions like noscript and ublock-origin can be used. > > Wrong. No, correct: Current noscript and ublock-origin cannot be used and never will usable with palemoon again. > Pale Moon has its own XUL extension ecosystem at > https://addons.palemoon.org/extensions/ Sure, they have to. This doesn't mean that this is worth something: > Noscript equivalents... > * https://addons.palemoon.org/addon/noscript/ This is not "equivalent" but the legacy noscript itself which I had mentioned. As I said, _currently_ this is still maintained (in the sense that most severe bugs are fixed) because of the tor browser. Upstream's main activity is clearly the web extension. BTW, this is nothing new: For a long time one had to use 2-years old versions of noscript, because important new APIs current noscript needed had not been implemented yet. Eventually the new API was pulled from firefox upstream, so that currently at least the most recent (obsolete) version of noscript can be used. In future, you cannot expect such a thing to ever happen again. > * https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/addon/yesscript/ ... and another legacy extension whose maintainance apparently stopped 2 years ago.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Firefox and addons no longer supported question
On 02/04/18 13:41, Martin Vaeth wrote: > Bill Kenworthy wrote: >> I use the palemoon overlay. > There is also the octopus overlay. > Anyway, both can only react to upstream. > >> builds fine with gcc-6.4 > Yes, but it has random crashes which do not occur with gcc-5, > and as somebody familiar with the code posted somewhere, > the reasons are quite some assumptions in assembler code > which should not have been made. (I simply repeated these > claims without checking them.) > > Upstream knows about it and therefore officially does not Pretty stable for me - ymmv. What is annoying is sometimes complex pages do not load properly (e.g., job application sites which seem to have a lot of JavaScript running in the background.- possibly due to add blocking while FF when it works is vanilla) BillK
Re: [gentoo-user] bash scrip prompt after bootstrap
On Mon 2 Apr 2018 at 10:25:45 +0200, David Haller wrote: > You owe me a dollar! > > export PS1="$(chroot '$HOST') $PS1"; > ^ The text within the parentheses was meant as literal text, the chroot command is executed rightward of the pipe. I could just as well write echo 'export PS1="You have chrooted into '$HOST' from $PS1"; exec
Re: [gentoo-user] Firefox and addons no longer supported question
Dale wrote: > tu...@posteo.de wrote: >> >> Hi Dale, >> >> >> to wetten your appetite...;) >> Here is an exerpt of the wikepedia page for waterfox: >> >> Waterfox differs from Firefox in a number of ways by: >> Disabling Encrypted Media Extensions (EME) >> Disabling Web Runtime >> Removing Adobe DRM >> Removing Pocket >> Removing Telemetry >> Removing data collection >> Removing startup profiling >> Allowing running of all 64-bit NPAPI plugins >> Allowing running of unsigned extensions >> Removing of Sponsored Tiles on New Tab Page >> Addition of Duplicate Tab option >> Addition of locale selector in about:preferences > General >> Defaulting to Ecosia as the search engine instead of Google or Yahoo![7] >> Cookie prompt from version 56.0 (beta)[8] >> >> (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterfox) >> >> Cheers >> Meino >> > I played with it for a bit but I can't get the old or new tab utility > addon to work. I tried the old one but it fails to start with some > error I can't recall. The new tab utility addon only works with the > newer Firefox versions. > > It seems I can win no matter what I try. :/ > > Dale > > :-) :-) > That last bit should read can NOT win. Brain didn't quite make it all the way to keyboard. lol Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Firefox and addons no longer supported question
tu...@posteo.de wrote: > On 03/30 10:36, Dale wrote: >> tu...@posteo.de wrote: >>> On 03/30 09:45, Dale wrote: tu...@posteo.de wrote: > Hi, > > I switched to waterfox for privacy reasons and it supports the older > plugin system. > No need to stay to older version (keeping older bugs, which may > affect seurity) ... > > Waterfox is opensourced and it has a smaller memory footprint. > > https://www.waterfoxproject.org/en-US/ > > No advertising intended...I am only an user. > > Cheers! > Meino > I ran up on a site where that was talked about. It's not in the tree tho. How did you install it? Is it just download and run it from command line or a manual addition to the menu system? Is there a overlay with it in it? While I like Firefox, the memory hog that it sometimes is, I'm not opposed to switching to something else. Thanks for the info. Dale :-) :-) >>> Hi Dale, >>> >>> I downloaded the archive, unpacked it in a separate directory, moved >>> that to /usr/local/., made a symlink from /usr/local/bin/waterfox to >>> the executable in that directory and: DONE :) >>> >>> Ok...I did an entry inti menu.xml of my openbox...manually ;) >>> >>> Since waterfox is contained in a single directory, gentoo will not be >>> "polluted" and the removal/upgrade of waterfox is easy. >>> >>> It is not the original genuine sacred of Gentoo, though. ;) >>> >>> Cheers! >>> Meino >>> >> Cool. I was peeking into overlays and was having no luck at all. I >> thought I found it twice but it seems they were removed or something. >> There was other stuff in the overlays but not Waterfox. >> >> I'll go download it and give it a whirl. Heck, if it isn't so much of a >> memory hog, that will be a bonus. LOL >> >> Thanks much. >> >> Dale >> >> :-) :-) >> >> P. S. May reply again if it works really well, for the benefit of others >> who may want to give it a try. ;-) >> > Hi Dale, > > > to wetten your appetite...;) > Here is an exerpt of the wikepedia page for waterfox: > > Waterfox differs from Firefox in a number of ways by: > Disabling Encrypted Media Extensions (EME) > Disabling Web Runtime > Removing Adobe DRM > Removing Pocket > Removing Telemetry > Removing data collection > Removing startup profiling > Allowing running of all 64-bit NPAPI plugins > Allowing running of unsigned extensions > Removing of Sponsored Tiles on New Tab Page > Addition of Duplicate Tab option > Addition of locale selector in about:preferences > General > Defaulting to Ecosia as the search engine instead of Google or Yahoo![7] > Cookie prompt from version 56.0 (beta)[8] > > (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterfox) > > Cheers > Meino > I played with it for a bit but I can't get the old or new tab utility addon to work. I tried the old one but it fails to start with some error I can't recall. The new tab utility addon only works with the newer Firefox versions. It seems I can win no matter what I try. :/ Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Firefox and addons no longer supported question
On Mon, Apr 02, 2018 at 05:41:03AM +, Martin Vaeth wrote
I don't speak officially for Pale Moon. See
https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7818 for the official
word about the manpower situation. Mind you, the Pale Moon team may not
have the staffing level required to write a new compiler, maintain a
politically correct "community", integrate real-time-chat into the
browser, integrate "Pocket" into the browser, rewrite the GUI every so
often, yada, yada, yada. BTW, Firefox's share of the mobile market is
0.53% as per netmarketshare.com
https://netmarketshare.com/?options={%22filter%22%3A{%22%24and%22%3A[{%22deviceType%22%3A{%22%24in%22%3A[%22Mobile%22]}}]}%2C%22dateLabel%22%3A%22Trend%22%2C%22attributes%22%3A%22share%22%2C%22group%22%3A%22browser%22%2C%22sort%22%3A{%22share%22%3A-1}%2C%22id%22%3A%22browsersDesktop%22%2C%22dateInterval%22%3A%22Monthly%22%2C%22dateStart%22%3A%222017-03%22%2C%22dateEnd%22%3A%222018-02%22%2C%22segments%22%3A%22-1000%22%2C%22pageLength%22%3A10}
So why bother?
As far as features are concerned, again go to the official website
http://www.palemoon.org/technical.shtml
> The decision to stick with legacy extension api completely excludes
> that there is some convergence of the fork in the future.
As an end-user, I think you're missing the whole point of Pale Moon.
If I really wanted a Chrome-like browser, I'd use Chrome in the first
place. I, and a lot of other people, switched to Pale Moon precisely
because we *DO NOT WANT* what Firefox has become. To quote an old
meme... I didn't leave Firefox... Firefox left me.
> Also the refusal to implement webextension apis (which is consequent,
> since it is hardly possible to maintain 2 more and more diverging
> apis) has the side effect that only obsolete versions of the actively
> maintained extensions like noscript and ublock-origin can be used.
Wrong. Pale Moon has its own XUL extension ecosystem at
https://addons.palemoon.org/extensions/ Since they're written
specifically for Pale Moon, the compatability headaches of using Firefox
extensions do not exist.
Noscript equivalents...
* https://addons.palemoon.org/addon/noscript/
* https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/addon/yesscript/
Adblockers...
* https://addons.palemoon.org/addon/abprime/
* https://addons.palemoon.org/addon/adblock-latitude/
--
Walter Dnes
I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Firefox and addons no longer supported question
tu...@posteo.de wrote: > On 04/02 05:41, Martin Vaeth wrote: >> Bill Kenworthy wrote: >>> I use the palemoon overlay. >> There is also the octopus overlay. >> Anyway, both can only react to upstream. >> >>> builds fine with gcc-6.4 >> Yes, but it has random crashes which do not occur with gcc-5, >> and as somebody familiar with the code posted somewhere, >> the reasons are quite some assumptions in assembler code >> which should not have been made. (I simply repeated these >> claims without checking them.) >> >> Upstream knows about it and therefore officially does not >> support building with gcc-6. Since firefox upstream has fixed >> all these things ages ago, and palemoon is not able to identify >> or pull the corresponding patches this shows IMHO that it >> has already diverged to a degree that it cannot be reasonably >> maintained with the resources they have, and I doubt that >> security issues are closed (or worse: recognized) timely: >> In contrast to crashes (even Heisenbug crashes), security >> issues cannot be "detected" if there is no expert regularly >> checking the code very carfully. >> >> The decision to stick with legacy extension api completely >> excludes that there is some convergence of the fork in the >> future. >> >> Also the refusal to implement webextension apis (which is >> consequent, since it is hardly possible to maintain 2 >> more and more diverging apis) has the side effect that >> only obsolete versions of the actively maintained extensions >> like noscript and ublock-origin can be used. In the moment, >> the legacy version of noscript is still maintained, but only >> because of the tor browser. I suppose eventually this will change. >> >> I also do not know much about waterfox, but if one goal ist >> to keep legacy extensions, I am afraid it will go the palemoon >> way, too: >> It seems currently that mozilla, google, and apple are the only >> oranganizations with enough resources to maintain full browsers, >> and any forks of their browsers which diverge more than a patchset >> of essentially fixed size are doomed to fail for this very reason. >> >> > > ...and if after all that (at least) firefox gets so bulky and has such > a hugh memory footprint that (on a multitasking OS) no other > reasonable "powerful" application will multitask with it (or your > machine goes swapping) and if mozilla itsself walks down an at least > questionable way...then... > What? > > In the moment I cannot use firefox - regardless how > advanced/secure/modern/or what it is. It does not fit into > my working environment - it is to huge. > > Cheers > Meino > I have to agree. I use different Firefox profiles for different things. One reason, I can be logged into same website but as different users at the same time. Another reason, when one profile becomes a memory hog, I can restart it but not disturb the others. Another reason, I can customize each profile based on what I do with it. I notice in the last year or so that Firefox regularly uses over 1GB of ram in most all of my profiles. Sometimes it can approach 2GBs. I've tried going to about:memory and clicking the free up memory button but it does little good. It may free up some but generally not enough to matter. Closing and restarting Firefox does work tho. I have one profile that I use for things such as financial sites and ordering online. I use addons like noscript, adblock and such which sort of helps prevent tracking and such. I also use the https addon with it as well. I sort of wish Firefox would shrink back down on its size and let us install addons for features we want and be able to do that for each profile. For example, I have one profile that I use to download videos with. It has download helper installed on it but I don't install it on the other profiles. On one profile, I have a screenshot tool installed. I use it to document some admin/mod stuff I do on a website. I don't need a screenshot tool on other profiles tho. Basically, it would be nice if more things were that way because we can chose what features we want for each profile based on what we do with it. Even USE flags won't work with this because if it is done with USE flags, it applies to all profiles. Even if a person only has one profile, they just install what features they want instead of a whole bunch of stuff that may never be used or even wanted. While I like progress on some things, others, I wish progress had more options. Sometimes, I don't want a bloated monster of a program. If anything, I may want to add things that improve security but has no other "features" included. Then on others, I may not care much about security but want features. Having a bare program and the ability to add features, that allows everyone to have what they want. They can pick a huge bloated program or a bare metal barely gets the job done program. Just thinking out loud. ;-) Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Firefox and addons no longer supported question
On 04/02 08:23, Martin Vaeth wrote: > tu...@posteo.de wrote: > > On 04/02 05:41, Martin Vaeth wrote: > >> It seems currently that mozilla, google, and apple are the only > >> oranganizations with enough resources to maintain full browsers, > >> and any forks of their browsers which diverge more than a patchset > >> of essentially fixed size are doomed to fail for this very reason. > > > > ...and if after all that (at least) firefox gets so bulky and has such > > a hugh memory footprint that (on a multitasking OS) no other > > reasonable "powerful" application will multitask with it (or your > > machine goes swapping) and if mozilla itsself walks down an at least > > questionable way...then... > > What? > > It's the way it is whether you like it or not. > > > In the moment I cannot use firefox - regardless how > > advanced/secure/modern/or what it is. It does not fit into > > my working environment - it is to huge. > > The memory footprint of the main system with firefox is here > about 1GB. So if you have another memory hungry application running > (like emerging gcc in the background) you will need at least 2GB. > I guess 2GB RAM is about the limit to have a usable system, nowadays. > Working with 2GB and a dual core is possible with current gentoo > and firefox without too many restrictions, but of course it is much > more fun with 8GB and i3, which is probably about the smallest > desktop machine which you get nowadays (if you buy a new one). > > I found an interesting thread here: https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/7zfopp/howto_geek_recommends_against_using_waterfox_pale/ Cheers Meino
[gentoo-user] Re: Firefox and addons no longer supported question
tu...@posteo.de wrote: > On 04/02 05:41, Martin Vaeth wrote: >> It seems currently that mozilla, google, and apple are the only >> oranganizations with enough resources to maintain full browsers, >> and any forks of their browsers which diverge more than a patchset >> of essentially fixed size are doomed to fail for this very reason. > > ...and if after all that (at least) firefox gets so bulky and has such > a hugh memory footprint that (on a multitasking OS) no other > reasonable "powerful" application will multitask with it (or your > machine goes swapping) and if mozilla itsself walks down an at least > questionable way...then... > What? It's the way it is whether you like it or not. > In the moment I cannot use firefox - regardless how > advanced/secure/modern/or what it is. It does not fit into > my working environment - it is to huge. The memory footprint of the main system with firefox is here about 1GB. So if you have another memory hungry application running (like emerging gcc in the background) you will need at least 2GB. I guess 2GB RAM is about the limit to have a usable system, nowadays. Working with 2GB and a dual core is possible with current gentoo and firefox without too many restrictions, but of course it is much more fun with 8GB and i3, which is probably about the smallest desktop machine which you get nowadays (if you buy a new one).
Re: [gentoo-user] bash scrip prompt after bootstrap
Hello,
On Sun, 01 Apr 2018, the...@sys-concept.com wrote:
>On 03/30/2018 11:10 AM, Bas Zoutendijk wrote:
[..]
>> echo 'export PS1="(chroot '$HOST') $PS1"; exec > $ROOT /bin/bash -i
>The above syntax produced an error:
>
>chroot-eden: line 30: syntax error near unexpected token `('
>chroot-eden: line 30: `echo 'export PS1="(chroot '$HOST') $PS1"; exec
>
Re: [gentoo-user] bash scrip prompt after bootstrap
On Sun 1 Apr 2018 at 20:54:13 -0600, the...@sys-concept.com wrote:
> The above syntax produced an error:
>
> chroot-eden: line 30: syntax error near unexpected token `('
> chroot-eden: line 30: `echo 'export PS1="(chroot '$HOST') $PS1"; exec
>
> I've tried it without brackets "()" no effect.
Strange, I get no error when I run the exact same command. Can you
find out which part of the command is causing it, by process of
elimination?
Sincerely,
Bas
--
Sebastiaan L. Zoutendijk | slzoutend...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Firefox and addons no longer supported question
On 04/02 05:41, Martin Vaeth wrote: > Bill Kenworthy wrote: > > I use the palemoon overlay. > > There is also the octopus overlay. > Anyway, both can only react to upstream. > > > builds fine with gcc-6.4 > > Yes, but it has random crashes which do not occur with gcc-5, > and as somebody familiar with the code posted somewhere, > the reasons are quite some assumptions in assembler code > which should not have been made. (I simply repeated these > claims without checking them.) > > Upstream knows about it and therefore officially does not > support building with gcc-6. Since firefox upstream has fixed > all these things ages ago, and palemoon is not able to identify > or pull the corresponding patches this shows IMHO that it > has already diverged to a degree that it cannot be reasonably > maintained with the resources they have, and I doubt that > security issues are closed (or worse: recognized) timely: > In contrast to crashes (even Heisenbug crashes), security > issues cannot be "detected" if there is no expert regularly > checking the code very carfully. > > The decision to stick with legacy extension api completely > excludes that there is some convergence of the fork in the > future. > > Also the refusal to implement webextension apis (which is > consequent, since it is hardly possible to maintain 2 > more and more diverging apis) has the side effect that > only obsolete versions of the actively maintained extensions > like noscript and ublock-origin can be used. In the moment, > the legacy version of noscript is still maintained, but only > because of the tor browser. I suppose eventually this will change. > > I also do not know much about waterfox, but if one goal ist > to keep legacy extensions, I am afraid it will go the palemoon > way, too: > It seems currently that mozilla, google, and apple are the only > oranganizations with enough resources to maintain full browsers, > and any forks of their browsers which diverge more than a patchset > of essentially fixed size are doomed to fail for this very reason. > > ...and if after all that (at least) firefox gets so bulky and has such a hugh memory footprint that (on a multitasking OS) no other reasonable "powerful" application will multitask with it (or your machine goes swapping) and if mozilla itsself walks down an at least questionable way...then... What? In the moment I cannot use firefox - regardless how advanced/secure/modern/or what it is. It does not fit into my working environment - it is to huge. Cheers Meino
