Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Dale]

Steven Lembark wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Apr 2020 20:49:42 -0500
> Dale  wrote:
>
> Aside:
>
>> It made one glad that
>> they could only use keyboards instead of dueling pistols.  Then they
>> created moderators with people to enforce some rules.  It got better. 
>> Actually, a lot better.  Still, every once in a while, someone feels
>> someone else's foot on their toes and it gets a little tense. 
> Q: What part of the entirety of human history have you *not* 
>described?
>
> Put it another way:
>
> Q: Why should anyone ever expect Gentoo to somehow not reflect the
>fact that H. Sapiens are its perpetrators?
>

My point was, things were done and they changed.  After that change, it
got better.  All the battling back and forth seemed to actually slow the
progress of Gentoo.  It wasn't helpful for sure.  Last I checked, devs
are human. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Caveman Al Toraboran]

On Friday, April 24, 2020 1:03 AM, Alec Ten Harmsel  
wrote:

> If it's so easy, why don't you implement it? /s

because busy and got better things in life.

but what is your point?

1. are you trying to get to know me a bit closer?
2. or are you trying to indirectly a claim that
   making portage faster is too hard?

if (1) then off-topic.  if (2) then you're
committing a logical fallacy.  some version of
appeal to majority?  hence your claim is
unsubstantiated, and is deleted from space thanks
to occam's razor.

if it was too hard for most people in the past, it
doesn't mean that it is hard for everyone else.

not saying that your claim is wrong.  but saying
that your tool to show that claim is not working.

not saying that your claim is right either.  it's
so far floating somewhere in the ``unknown''
region (until a proof is presented; not a logical
fallacy).


> Sorry for being a little glib but every couple months I go through this 
> thought process:
>
> 1.  Wow, portage is slow
> 2.  I can make this faster, it can't be that hard
> 3.  ...wow, nevermind, it is really hard
> 4.  Thank you portage maintainers!

if your point is to share history, thanks.  else:
logical fallacy (read above).


> I don't think it's O(log n). Roughly, for 1 package portage has to make the 
> full dep
> tree, solve all the constraints to resolve to actual packages that can be 
> installed,
> and order and merge the tree into a single branch of packages to install. I'm
> probably missing some steps and obviously that's not a rigorous explanation 
> but
> it's at least O(n) where n is the total number of dependencies.

not mutually exclusive.  your n (number of deps)
is different than my n (number of packages in
portage).  e.g. i think that :

O(your n) = O(log(my n))

i think the real trick is to split portage into
two separate parts:

1. index:  pre-compiled indexed global dependency
   graph.   this should allow efficient jumping
   into the right spot of the graph to efficiently
   walk around to meet the dependencies based on
   constraints (e.g. USE flags, versions).

   imo this can do the dependency resolution that
   emerge does in 45 seconds in less than 3
   seconds.

2. scripts to carry out the compile/installation.

currently portage has (1) and (2) mixed into a
single directory-based structure containing files
in a format that is not efficient for graph
walking, and uses the wrong tool (python).


> Speeding up portage would be a fun project but it's less important
> that portage being correct.

yes, the speed issue is not a problem (more like a
psychological issue).  but that's misleading.
portage's problems is beyond the timing issue.
e.g.:

1. the fact that emerge uses python is horrible.
   ideally a package manager must have least
   run-time dependencies possible.  but now,
   emerge is based on python, which limits our
   freedom in upgrading python versions in the
   fear of wrecking emerge (and getting stuck,
   needing manual attention).  which is why i
   think ideally new emerge should be some
   statically linked compiled binary.

2. i'm sure smart people can point out better
   reasons about how emerge is wrong.

Re: [gentoo-user] ALSA wizard...

[Matt Connell (Gmail)]

On 2020-04-23 16:07, Jorge Almeida wrote:

Does it allow you to send the contents of a wav file to an external
DAC without first messing with the contents?


As I understand it, (and someone please correct me if I am wrong), Pulse 
is a layer of abstraction over alsa.  So if you can do that with alsa, 
you should still be able to do that *with* alsa, even if Pulse installed.

Re: [gentoo-user] ALSA wizard...

[Jorge Almeida]

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 9:39 PM Matt Connell (Gmail)
 wrote:
>

> This is becoming more common over time; I gave up on trying to avoid
> Pulse a few years ago.
>
:/

Does it allow you to send the contents of a wav file to an external
DAC without first messing with the contents?

Thanks

Jorge

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Alec Ten Harmsel]

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020, at 14:14, Caveman Al Toraboran wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 9:34 PM, Michael Orlitzky  
> wrote:
> 
> > Dependency resolution is indeed a (formally) hard problem. Solving the
> > traveling salesman problem is also hard. Solving the traveling salesman
> > problem while being punched in the face is even harder. When I complain
> > about portage being slow, what I mean is that I want to stop being
> > punched in the face so that I can concentrate all of my energy on the
> > underlying hard problem.
> 
> any reason why is it a traveling salesman problem,
> and not just a tree walk with heuristics to handle
> exceptions (e.g. cycles)?
> 

If it's so easy, why don't you implement it? /s

Sorry for being a little glib but every couple months I go through this thought 
process:

1. Wow, portage is slow
2. I can make this faster, it can't be that hard
3. ...wow, nevermind, it is really hard
4. Thank you portage maintainers!

> 
> my thought
> --
> 
> my thought is that dep. resolution is like walking
> down a tree, and branch out depending on the USE
> flags -- for this, imo the sympt. run-time
> complexity should be approximately O(log n), where
> n = number of packages in portage.

I don't think it's O(log n). Roughly, for 1 package portage has to make the 
full dep
tree, solve all the constraints to resolve to actual packages that can be 
installed,
and order and merge the tree into a single branch of packages to install. I'm
probably missing some steps and obviously that's not a rigorous explanation but
it's at least O(n) where n is the total number of dependencies.

> except that some of its leaves go back to a branch
> (circular dependencies).  here, we can add
> heuristics/workarounds when cycles are detected.

Cycles make it even more complicated, and I'm not up on the latest algorithms
to resolve these and know how fast they are.

Speeding up portage would be a fun project but it's less important
that portage being correct.

Alec

Re: [gentoo-user] ALSA wizard...

[Jorge Almeida]

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 9:11 PM Mark Knecht  wrote:
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 12:02 PM Jorge Almeida  wrote:
> >
> >
> > I need the "virtual" card to be the default, so I did this:
> >
>
> Did you attempt making the virtual card default by defining it in 
> /etc/asound.conf? I'm not sure how Alsa will feel about doing that but I 
> think that's probably preferred if you can...

No, I didn't. I suppose it's the same.
>
> 
>
> > What I cannot do is to coax discord into working. Maybe discord
> > doesn't expect ALSA's defaults after all?
> > Anyone familiar with discord? (No gamers?)
>
> Sorry but I've never heard of discord before this thread but I'm tragically 
> unhip so it's not surprising.

Well, the thing is for gamers (which I'm not, not even close) but is
used for other purposes also. I need it for work :(
>
Thanks

Jorge

Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Tinderboxes?

[Michael Jones]

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 3:21 PM Steven Lembark  wrote:

>
> Q: You have Docker (or any other lxc) running on something local?
>
> We could use my system here as a sandbox. There should be a decent
> way to have a "gentoo-qc" image for testing: Just snag the image and
> have it "emerge --update" to see what works, or something similar.
>
>
> --
> Steven Lembark  5725 Aylesboro Ave
> Workhorse ComputingPittsburgh PA 15217
> lemb...@wrkhors.com+1 888 359 3508
>


If this question is directed at me, then here's some information:

1) Already installed, and used regularly: systemd-nspawn
2) Docker, or others: Well, whatever tool is needed is only an emerge away

If someone were to add (or, if there is already such a feature and I'm just
not aware...) automatic build log uploads on failure to the make.conf
FEATURES variable, I would also be OK to enable that on my equipment.

Re: [gentoo-user] ALSA wizard...

[Matt Connell (Gmail)]

On 2020-04-23 14:01, Jorge Almeida wrote:

What I cannot do is to coax discord into working. Maybe discord
doesn't expect ALSA's defaults after all?
Anyone familiar with discord? (No gamers?)


From this forum post, it appears Discord only works with pulseaudio.

https://support.discordapp.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360035393592-Jack-audio-support-in-Linux-or-at-least-ALSA

This is becoming more common over time; I gave up on trying to avoid 
Pulse a few years ago.

Re: [gentoo-user] Prefer Gentoo repository rather than overlay?

[Matt Connell (Gmail)]

On 2020-04-23 14:35, Caveman Al Toraboran wrote:

 * setting priority of your layman repo below -1000.


I think this is the hot ticket here.  That way poly-c becomes... an 
underlay, I guess?  It will suit my needs and it only affects this one *lay.


I figured this was an "RTFM" type of problem, I just didn't punch the 
right words into a search I reckon.


On 2020-04-23 15:14, J. Roeleveld wrote:
> The problem with that method is that it needs to be done for any 
overlay you install.

>
> By setting the priority of the gentoo repo to a high number, it will 
always take precedence.


Your solution is a general one, where someone wants every overlay to be 
lower priority than the default.  My issue is specific to a single 
overlay, so setting it's priority lower, and leaving everything else 
unchanged, meets my needs more precisely.  This way I can use other 
overlays the way they're intended, while just making poly-c packages 
take a back-seat.


Thanks everyone.

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Steven Lembark]

>   portage must be in C and statically linked.

Seems to argue in favor of a statically-linked dynamic language: The 
runtime compiler can be static with install scripts being a bit more 
malleable.

Main issue I can see with C is that most people today don't know how 
to manage memory; not enough of us left who really understand how 
malloc works :-) 

-- 
Steven Lembark  5725 Aylesboro Ave
Workhorse ComputingPittsburgh PA 15217
lemb...@wrkhors.com+1 888 359 3508

Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Tinderboxes?

[Steven Lembark]

> Is there any kind of QA tool that normal end users can contribute CPU
> cycles to? Given the massive combinatorial explosion of package
> configurations that can be installed using Gentoo, one might imagine
> that there's some value in simply installing programs with different
> USE combinations and running the self-tests for those programs.

The Perl community has had CPAN::Reporter for a while and a set of
smoke-test machines that run it. Normal Perl installs run "make test"
as part of the normal install, the reporter feeds back test results
to the authors -- I get a daily report of what failed and where. The
smoke-test servers run CPAN::Reporter on whatever gets checked in each
day.

In today's world it's rather easy to set this up with docker, using
Gentoo and some temp volumes (e.g., example using Gentoo for smoke-
testing CPAN: https://www.slideshare.net/lembark/smoking-docker).

Adding a Reporter-ish layer to a new version of Portage or a smoke-
testing option that does a "emerge --install" into a temp layer in 
Docker, reports the outcome,  and discards the results shouldn't be 
all that hard. 

I'd be happy to work on something like this.

-- 
Steven Lembark  5725 Aylesboro Ave
Workhorse ComputingPittsburgh PA 15217
lemb...@wrkhors.com+1 888 359 3508

Re: [gentoo-user] Prefer Gentoo repository rather than overlay?

[J. Roeleveld]

On 23 April 2020 22:00:50 CEST, tastytea  wrote:
>On 2020-04-23T21:39+0200
>"J. Roeleveld"  wrote:
>
>> On 23 April 2020 21:35:22 CEST, Caveman Al Toraboran
>>  wrote:
>> >
>> >> I would prefer that portage prioritize gentoo's version rather
>> >> than the overlay's version, unless specified otherwise (eg.
>> >> sys-boot/grub::poly-c) when installing.
>> >
>> >didn't try it, but i guess you'll get the effect
>> >you want by:
>> >
>> >* setting priority of your layman repo below -1000.
>> >* setting priority of the gentoo repo above
>> >  50 (i think default for layman).
>> >
>> >more info:
>> >https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Ebuild_repository#Priorities
>>
>> I got this working by only setting the priority of the gentoo repo to
>> 999.
>
>Another option is to mask¹ all packages from the overlay with
>*/*::poly-c and only unmask the packages you want to install from it.
>
>¹ 

The problem with that method is that it needs to be done for any overlay you 
install.

By setting the priority of the gentoo repo to a high number, it will always 
take precedence.

--
Joost
-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Consus]

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 03:10:28PM -0500, Steven Lembark wrote:
> Why the hell not?

I'm not saying not, I was all for it.

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Steven Lembark]

On Tue, 21 Apr 2020 22:01:45 +0300
Consus  wrote:

> Yeah, mgorny likes to do some provocative stuff like forking Portage.

Why the hell not?

Once you have a source-based distro the package manager can be a
matter of choice also -- so long as it accepts the existing 
package constructs as input. 

As pointed out earlier, Gentoo hasn't forked often, it's 
configurable enough that noone needs to fork it to have the
results meet their needs.

Pretty much the only thing we all have to have in common is the
portage source packages; after that there could easily be 
mutliple installers. If you use an offball product you'd have
to rely on whomever hacked it to get support -- vs. hitting up 
the usual gentoo list for help -- but if satisfies your needs
using "frobnicate install..." why would having second package
manager be all that bad?

-- 
Steven Lembark  5725 Aylesboro Ave
Workhorse ComputingPittsburgh PA 15217
lemb...@wrkhors.com+1 888 359 3508

Re: [gentoo-user] ALSA wizard...

[Mark Knecht]

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 12:02 PM Jorge Almeida  wrote:
>
>
> I need the "virtual" card to be the default, so I did this:
>

Did you attempt making the virtual card default by defining it in
/etc/asound.conf? I'm not sure how Alsa will feel about doing that but I
think that's probably preferred if you can...



> What I cannot do is to coax discord into working. Maybe discord
> doesn't expect ALSA's defaults after all?
> Anyone familiar with discord? (No gamers?)

Sorry but I've never heard of discord before this thread but I'm tragically
unhip so it's not surprising.

Re: [gentoo-user] Prefer Gentoo repository rather than overlay?

[tastytea]

On 2020-04-23T21:39+0200
"J. Roeleveld"  wrote:

> On 23 April 2020 21:35:22 CEST, Caveman Al Toraboran
>  wrote:
> >
> >> I would prefer that portage prioritize gentoo's version rather
> >> than the overlay's version, unless specified otherwise (eg.
> >> sys-boot/grub::poly-c) when installing.
> >
> >didn't try it, but i guess you'll get the effect
> >you want by:
> >
> >* setting priority of your layman repo below -1000.
> >* setting priority of the gentoo repo above
> >  50 (i think default for layman).
> >
> >more info:
> >https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Ebuild_repository#Priorities
>
> I got this working by only setting the priority of the gentoo repo to
> 999.

Another option is to mask¹ all packages from the overlay with
*/*::poly-c and only unmask the packages you want to install from it.

¹ 

-- 
Get my PGP key with `gpg --locate-keys tasty...@tastytea.de` or at
.


pgpOrdfSoYiRZ.pgp
Description: Digitale Signatur von OpenPGP

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Steven Lembark]

On Tue, 21 Apr 2020 20:49:42 -0500
Dale  wrote:

Aside:

> It made one glad that
> they could only use keyboards instead of dueling pistols.  Then they
> created moderators with people to enforce some rules.  It got better. 
> Actually, a lot better.  Still, every once in a while, someone feels
> someone else's foot on their toes and it gets a little tense. 

Q: What part of the entirety of human history have you *not* 
   described?

Put it another way:

Q: Why should anyone ever expect Gentoo to somehow not reflect the
   fact that H. Sapiens are its perpetrators?

-- 
Steven Lembark  5725 Aylesboro Ave
Workhorse ComputingPittsburgh PA 15217
lemb...@wrkhors.com+1 888 359 3508

Re: [gentoo-user] Prefer Gentoo repository rather than overlay?

[Caveman Al Toraboran]

On Thursday, April 23, 2020 11:09 PM, Matt Connell (Gmail) 
 wrote:

> Looking for some guidance in managing the source of package
> installs/upgrades when a package is provided by both the standard
> repository and an overlay.
>
> I currently have the poly-c overlay added via layman. poly-c provides
> many of the same packages as the standard gentoo repository.
>
> When I install/update packages, portage appears to prefer the version
> provided by poly-c rather than the version provided by the gentoo
> repository, if the two provide the same version number of the package.
> Examples of this include sys-boot/grub, sys-fs/udev, and other critical
> packages.
>
> I would prefer that portage prioritize gentoo's version rather than the
> overlay's version, unless specified otherwise (eg.
> sys-boot/grub::poly-c) when installing.
>
> What's the best way to go about doing this? I could specify ::gentoo
> for each entry in my world file, but this seems rather heavy-handed and
> high maintenance. Is there a better way?


**warning** i'm dumb.

didn't try it, but i guess you'll get the effect
you want by:

* setting priority of your layman repo below -1000.
* setting priority of the gentoo repo above
  50 (i think default for layman).

more info:
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Ebuild_repository#Priorities

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Steven Lembark]

> Still you have to manually configure things. And I know that Gentoo is
> about choice, but configuring kernel is hard.

Actually, it's less difficult than finding out half-way through 
a three-day execution cycle that you have the wrong kernel config.

"make menuconfig" is blindingly simple on its own. Discovering
which hardware your machine actally has is difficult, which
drivers are appropriate can be a True Pain (tm); but actually
configuring the kernel is blindingly easy -- if admittedly rahter
boring [I've found a moderate quantity of decent beer helps the
process along quite nicely].

Q: What is it about configuring a kernel that you are finding 
   most difficult? 

I may be able to provide some poitners to simplify it.


-- 
Steven Lembark  5725 Aylesboro Ave
Workhorse ComputingPittsburgh PA 15217
lemb...@wrkhors.com+1 888 359 3508

Re: [gentoo-user] Prefer Gentoo repository rather than overlay?

[J. Roeleveld]

On 23 April 2020 21:35:22 CEST, Caveman Al Toraboran 
 wrote:
>
>On Thursday, April 23, 2020 11:09 PM, Matt Connell (Gmail)
> wrote:
>
>> Looking for some guidance in managing the source of package
>> installs/upgrades when a package is provided by both the standard
>> repository and an overlay.
>>
>> I currently have the poly-c overlay added via layman. poly-c provides
>> many of the same packages as the standard gentoo repository.
>>
>> When I install/update packages, portage appears to prefer the version
>> provided by poly-c rather than the version provided by the gentoo
>> repository, if the two provide the same version number of the
>package.
>> Examples of this include sys-boot/grub, sys-fs/udev, and other
>critical
>> packages.
>>
>> I would prefer that portage prioritize gentoo's version rather than
>the
>> overlay's version, unless specified otherwise (eg.
>> sys-boot/grub::poly-c) when installing.
>>
>> What's the best way to go about doing this? I could specify ::gentoo
>> for each entry in my world file, but this seems rather heavy-handed
>and
>> high maintenance. Is there a better way?
>
>
>**warning** i'm dumb.
>
>didn't try it, but i guess you'll get the effect
>you want by:
>
>* setting priority of your layman repo below -1000.
>* setting priority of the gentoo repo above
>  50 (i think default for layman).
>
>more info:
>https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Ebuild_repository#Priorities

I got this working by only setting the priority of the gentoo repo to 999. 

--
Joost
-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

[gentoo-user] Prefer Gentoo repository rather than overlay?

[Matt Connell (Gmail)]

Looking for some guidance in managing the source of package 
installs/upgrades when a package is provided by both the standard 
repository and an overlay.


I currently have the poly-c overlay added via layman.  poly-c provides 
many of the same packages as the standard gentoo repository.


When I install/update packages, portage appears to prefer the version 
provided by poly-c rather than the version provided by the gentoo 
repository, if the two provide the same version number of the package. 
Examples of this include sys-boot/grub, sys-fs/udev, and other critical 
packages.


I would prefer that portage prioritize gentoo's version rather than the 
overlay's version, unless specified otherwise (eg. 
sys-boot/grub::poly-c) when installing.


What's the best way to go about doing this?  I could specify ::gentoo 
for each entry in my world file, but this seems rather heavy-handed and 
high maintenance.  Is there a better way?

Re: [gentoo-user] ALSA wizard...

[Jorge Almeida]

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 5:54 PM Michael  wrote:
>

>
> > > > > The setup:
> > > > > -- a microphone connected to an audio interface, which connects to an
> > > > > USB port in the computer. The interface works like a USB sound card,
> > > > > at least regarding sound capture. It works: I can record my voice with

> >
> > Yes, and the device works for recording; the playing together with the
> > other card (for output) is the problem, which I believe is a matter of
> > having an appropriate .asoundrc (the syntax of which beats me)
>
> OK, have a look at the end of this message for an example.
>
>
> > > If an application like vlc allows you to get audio output by
> > > switching devices, then you know you will have to change the order of your
> > > cards as they are detected by the kernel.
> >

> Not relevant, but if the RCA is detected as a serial modem or what not, you
> may need to also be in dialup group.

I checked the kernel messages, nothing seems relevant.
>
>



> OK, I believe you need to use the "asym" alsa plugin to combine input from one
> card and output through another.  I have not used this before - I'd probably
> opt for jackd instead.  Some experimentation may be necessary to get the
> manual setup as you want it.  Have a look at this page:
>
> https://github.com/opensrc/alsa/blob/master/lib/md/Asym.md

Good link, I didn't knw this one.

>
> Essentially, you define two cards, for two different functions, then use the
> asym plugin to combine them.  Something like this?
>
> # Specify the MoBo card as the default
> pcm.!default {
> type hw
> card PCH
> }
>
> # Retain controls on this card for alsamixer and applications
> ctl.!default {
> type hw
> card PCH
> }
>
> # Now the USB device
> ctl.!USB{
> type hw
> card CODEC
> format "S16_LE"
> channels 1
> rate 44100
> #more options here
> }
>
> # Join the I/O devices
> pcm.duplex{
> type asym
> playback.pcm "default"
> capture.pcm "USB"
> }
>
> See how the above works and consult the asym page for further tweakerage.

I need the "virtual" card to be the default, so I did this:

pcm.mbcard{
type hw
card PCH
device 1
}
ctl.mbcard{
type hw
card 0
}
pcm.usbcard{
type hw
card CODEC
device 0
}
pcm.output{
type plug
slave.pcm "mbcard"
}
pcm.input{
type plug
slave {
pcm "usbcard"
channels 1
}
}
pcm.!default{
type asym
playback.pcm "output"
capture.pcm "input"
}

(The microphone is mono, hence the channels entry. I'm not sure it is needed.)

I think this sets the defaults, because:
--I can record with "arecord -fdat test.wav"
--I can playback with "aplay test.wav"

What I cannot do is to coax discord into working. Maybe discord
doesn't expect ALSA's defaults after all?
Anyone familiar with discord? (No gamers?)

Thanks

Jorge

Re: [gentoo-user] ALSA wizard...

[Jorge Almeida]

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 2:38 PM Mark Knecht  wrote:
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 12:04 AM Jorge Almeida  wrote:
> >

> > (And, if memory serves, you were one of the first persons to help me,
> > in a sound related question, many years ago!)
> >
>
> Well, I Can only hope I was nice! ;-)

:)



>
> OK, looking at your problem I think you are asking for the audio input to 
> come from the USB device and the audio output to be the built-in audio 
> device. If that's correct then Alsa doesn't, by default, allow you to do that 
> - input from one card, output to another card, but treating it all like a 
> single card to make applications happy. What I _THINK_ you need to do is 
> create a 'virtual' sound card. Google these terms
>
> alsa virtual sound card

Right, got the idea. I think I managed to setup appropriate defaults
(next message, reply to Michael), but discord still doesn't play ball.
I'm beginning to suspect discord requires pulseaudio, although I
wouldn't expect it, since the ebuild doesn't force it.

>
> and you will find examples of how to do this. It requires editing .asoundrc. 
> I've never done this myself so I probably cannot help much beyond this. (But 
> I will try to be nice!) ;-)
>

Thanks

Jorge

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Caveman Al Toraboran]

On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 9:34 PM, Michael Orlitzky  wrote:

> Dependency resolution is indeed a (formally) hard problem. Solving the
> traveling salesman problem is also hard. Solving the traveling salesman
> problem while being punched in the face is even harder. When I complain
> about portage being slow, what I mean is that I want to stop being
> punched in the face so that I can concentrate all of my energy on the
> underlying hard problem.

any reason why is it a traveling salesman problem,
and not just a tree walk with heuristics to handle
exceptions (e.g. cycles)?


my thought
--

my thought is that dep. resolution is like walking
down a tree, and branch out depending on the USE
flags -- for this, imo the sympt. run-time
complexity should be approximately O(log n), where
n = number of packages in portage.

except that some of its leaves go back to a branch
(circular dependencies).  here, we can add
heuristics/workarounds when cycles are detected.

how common is it to stumble upon cycles in a
single dependency resolution run?  let's say it
happens S many times per run.

so in overall, i think, it should be O(log n + S).

since it can be seen as a tree, imo it is very
easy to distribute the computation across several
cores, even for a single package dep. resolution.
e.g. create threads upon branching in the tree
until MAX_THRD reached.

of course all in C, statically-linked (minimum
run-time dep. for emerge).  i don't see why we
need fancy stuff like python.

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Michael Jones]

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 1:15 PM Caveman Al Toraboran <
toraboracave...@protonmail.com> wrote:

> On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 9:34 PM, Michael Orlitzky 
> wrote:
>
> > Dependency resolution is indeed a (formally) hard problem. Solving the
> > traveling salesman problem is also hard. Solving the traveling salesman
> > problem while being punched in the face is even harder. When I complain
> > about portage being slow, what I mean is that I want to stop being
> > punched in the face so that I can concentrate all of my energy on the
> > underlying hard problem.
>
> any reason why is it a traveling salesman problem,
> and not just a tree walk with heuristics to handle
> exceptions (e.g. cycles)?
>
>

You can see more information about the portage dependency solver situation
with this mailing list post:

https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/message/40f9585ba6a9850eb82853d945d608eb

The github repository in question is here:
https://github.com/HyVar/gentoo_to_mspl/

Note: I have nothing to do with this project, I just remembered the mailing
list post, and thought it was a good idea.

Re: [gentoo-user] Two problems after switching to elogind

[Peter Humphrey]

On Thursday, 16 April 2020 09:18:06 BST Peter Humphrey wrote:
> On Wednesday, 15 April 2020 11:48:05 BST Dale wrote:
> > As to the sound problem, I'd try logging out of the GUI, restarting
> > elogind or rebooting, and then trying again.  One thing I've noticed
> > about elogind, if it or something it depends on triggers the need for a
> > restart, it causes some weird problems.  Once restarted, everything
> > works as it should.
> 
> Well, I can't explain it. After going through the update process again,
> everything is working just fine.

Hah! Never count your chickens until they're hatched. It seems that the sound 
chip on the motherboard has failed. Now I'm waiting for an HDMI sound splitter 
to arrive so that I can use the sound driver in the Radeon.

-- 
Regards,
Peter.

Re: [gentoo-user] ALSA wizard...

[Michael]

On Thursday, 23 April 2020 10:46:29 BST Jorge Almeida wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 9:19 AM Michael  wrote:
> > I recall you having problems recording with this device before, but since
> > you're now a step ahead let's have another go at this, in case I may be
> > able to help.
> 
> Yes, this is not the same issue (the former problem was: I wasn't
> getting anything from the RCA output; maybe it isn't supposed to--no
> documentation provided with the device--or that part is broken;
> anyway, I gave up on the RCA; the device works fine as a USB sound
> card)

It may be the RCA signal is detected by the PC as a different interface, in 
addition to the USB sound card, depending on how it is amplified and processed 
before it arrives at the PC.

What you show below as your dmesg output only presents the USB interface 
detection.  I would think there would be more in advance of those lines, 
mentioning vendorID and productID.  Anyway, if you're happy with it as a USB 
device carry on.


> > > > The setup:
> > > > -- a microphone connected to an audio interface, which connects to an
> > > > USB port in the computer. The interface works like a USB sound card,
> > > > at least regarding sound capture. It works: I can record my voice with
> > > > arecord into a wav file, and then play the file with aplay.
> > > > -- a (motherboard) sound card with a toslink output connected to an
> > > > external DAC/amplifier. It works: playing wav, youtube, etc.
> > > > 
> > > > The problem:
> > > > I need to use it for voice chat. I tried slack and discord (the latter
> > > > both via browser and app--there's a package in portage--, the former
> > > > only via browser). No sound, neither outbound nor inbound.
> > > > None of these programs provides a way to tell them which devices to
> > > > use, so I assume they just go for some default.
> > 
> > Yes, this is the case or you're missing some audio module/driver/firmware,
> > which is probably unlikely for a device which presents itself over a USB
> > interface.
> 
> Yes, and the device works for recording; the playing together with the
> other card (for output) is the problem, which I believe is a matter of
> having an appropriate .asoundrc (the syntax of which beats me)

OK, have a look at the end of this message for an example.


> > If an application like vlc allows you to get audio output by
> > switching devices, then you know you will have to change the order of your
> > cards as they are detected by the kernel.
> 
> the kernel consistently detects the MO card and the USB card in the
> same order (MO: card 0, USB: card 1).
> 
> > QUESTION:  I am not familiar with your hardware, but is dmesg *only*
> > identifying it as a USB device?  I'm asking this because you may need to
> > additionally configure e.g. a serial/parallel interface to the device for
> > controlling it, or at least adding yourself to some user group, if USB
> > alone won't suffice.
> 
> [  726.441114] input: Burr-Brown from TI   USB Audio CODEC
>  as
> /devices/pci:00/:00:14.0/usb1/1-10/1-10:1.3/0003:08BB:2902.0005/inp
> ut/input21 [  726.492970] hid-generic 0003:08BB:2902.0005: input,hidraw3:
> USB HID v1.00 Device [Burr-Brown from TI   USB Audio CODEC ] on
> usb-:00:14.0-10/input3
> [  726.493002] usb 1-10: authorized to connect
> 
> 
> I'm in the group "audio" and the permissions of /dev/snd/* are right (0660)

Not relevant, but if the RCA is detected as a serial modem or what not, you 
may need to also be in dialup group.


> > > > I don't have a .asoundrc file. Contents of /etc/alsa/conf.d/ are not
> > > > customized.
> > 
> > OK, this is noteworthy, you may need to do some tweaking in such a file,
> > depending which audio card is detected first and what controls are made
> > available.
> > 
> > > > sysdefault:CARD=PCH
> > 
> > OK, this shows your audio card on the MoBo is picked up by default as the
> > first card.
> > 
> > > > HDA Intel PCH, Generic Analog
> > > > Default Audio Device
> > > > 
> > > > front:CARD=PCH,DEV=0
> > > > 
> > > > HDA Intel PCH, Generic Analog
> > > > Front speakers
> > > > 
> > > > usbstream:CARD=PCH
> > > > 
> > > > HDA Intel PCH
> > > > USB Stream Output
> > > > 
> > > > sysdefault:CARD=CODEC
> > 
> > This is what you want to configure as the default audio device.
> 
> Only for capturing, not for playing!

Apologies, I had misunderstood what you're after.


> > In the first instance create a new file (for system-wide settings):
> >  /etc/asound.conf.
> > 
> > Add in it:
> > 
> > defaults.pcm.card 1
> > defaults.pcm.device 0
> > defaults.ctl.card 1
> > 
> > which hopefully will make your second card configured to be the default.
> 
> But that will make the USB card the default for both input and output.
> The USB card should take care of the input (microphone) and the MB
> card should deal with the output (digital signal sent to external
> DAC/amplifier via toslink cable).
> 
> > More detailed settings and 

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[lego12239]

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 05:20:23PM +0200, J. Roeleveld wrote:
> On 23 April 2020 11:26:08 CEST, lego12...@yandex.ru wrote:
> >I know about it. I didn't understand why in usual case we need to
> >do everytime emerge -e, instead of emerge -uND. But if we talk about os
> >developer - it's clear(but why *everytime* emerge -e?).
> 
> Because  normal emerge ends up being similar to an "emerge -e" if everything 
> is statically linked as everything needs to be rebuild, not just the 
> dependencies.

I understand. But why we talk about "emerge -e", if we don't talk about
"everything is statically linked", just about some packages,
concretely - portage.

And i don't think that "emerge -uND == emerge -e" even if everything is
statically linked and some package like openssl is changed. Yes, this is
larger packages set, than with dynamic linking, but not all. But in any
case it doesn't matter, because nobody talk about "everything is statically
linked".

-- 
Олег Неманов (Oleg Nemanov)

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[J. Roeleveld]

On 23 April 2020 11:26:08 CEST, lego12...@yandex.ru wrote:


>
>> The two commands do different things.  Using emerge -e calculates
>> rebuilding every package while emerge -auDN only looks for certain
>> updates.  Each can be useful even if not allowed to complete.
>
>I know about it. I didn't understand why in usual case we need to
>do everytime emerge -e, instead of emerge -uND. But if we talk about os
>developer - it's clear(but why *everytime* emerge -e?).


Because  normal emerge ends up being similar to an "emerge -e" if everything is 
statically linked as everything needs to be rebuild, not just the dependencies.

--
Joost


-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [gentoo-user] ALSA wizard...

[Mark Knecht]

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 12:04 AM Jorge Almeida  wrote:
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 1:42 AM Mark Knecht  wrote:
> >
> > Jorge,
> >Sorry for top posting. I'm at a site with limited capabilities at
the moment. Please forgive.
>
> Forgiving someone for trying to help me? :)
> (And, if memory serves, you were one of the first persons to help me,
> in a sound related question, many years ago!)
>

Well, I Can only hope I was nice! ;-)
>
> >
> >I'm slightly confused by the question but before I get into that
please provide the output of
> >
> > cat /proc/asound/cards
> $ cat /proc/asound/cards
>  0 [PCH]: HDA-Intel - HDA Intel PCH
>   HDA Intel PCH at 0xf734 irq 137
>  1 [CODEC  ]: USB-Audio - USB Audio CODEC
>   Burr-Brown from TI USB Audio CODEC at
> usb-:00:14.0-10, full speed
>
> > cat /proc/asound/modules
> $ cat /proc/asound/modules
> cat: /proc/asound/modules: No such file or directory
>
> (No wonder: I have it all in the kernel. But sound playing and
> recording are both fine, the problem is how to setup defaults that use
> two cards)

I don't think any problems are created by building the modules into the
kernel. However I don't know if blacklisting (something I now think you
won't have to do so it doesn't matter) a module works when it's built into
the kernel works when it's built in.

> >
> > What desktop environment are you using?
> I use openbox (it is probably debatable whether it should be considered a
DE)
> Anyway, this is a low-level setup, no higher-level stuff on top of ALSA.
> >
> > What kernel are you running?
> 5.6.4 (off portage)
> >

OK, looking at your problem I think you are asking for the audio input to
come from the USB device and the audio output to be the built-in audio
device. If that's correct then Alsa doesn't, by default, allow you to do
that - input from one card, output to another card, but treating it all
like a single card to make applications happy. What I _THINK_ you need to
do is create a 'virtual' sound card. Google these terms

alsa virtual sound card

and you will find examples of how to do this. It requires editing
.asoundrc. I've never done this myself so I probably cannot help much
beyond this. (But I will try to be nice!) ;-)

As for my desktop question KDE, which I use, has something like this built
in where it will create a virtual device that sends audio to all cards.
I've used it (very briefly) sending audio to both USB and the built-in
Intel audio device in my laptop, and it does work, but I eventually went a
different way.

As for my kernel question my Scarlett 2i2 3rd gen USB card didn't work
correctly with kernels lower than 5.3. Seems like that shouldn't be a
problem for you.

Wish I could offer more specific help on coding up .asoundrc but I suspect
you'll figure it out pretty quickly.

Cood luck,
Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Dale]

lego12...@yandex.ru wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 04:44:10AM -0500, Dale wrote:
>
>> If you do a emerge -ea world, you will see changes that emerge -uaDN
>> world won't because it considers every package on the system.  When you
>> do emerge -uaDN world, it only looks for changes/updates to the world
>> file and what they depend on but only to a point.  There is a huge
>> difference. 
>>
>> Run them both and observe the difference.  For a dev, that difference
>> can reveal something important. 
> I understand that. But in the context of our conversation(static vs dynamic
> linking), if i understand correctly portage, "emerge -e @world" rebuild all
> static-linked packages and all dynamic-linked packages. It simply rebuild
> *all* packages in any case, right? So, there is no difference between
> calling "emerge -e @world" against dynamic-linked packages or static-linked
> packages. Thus, i can't understand why we talk about "emerge -e" at all.
> May be i understand something wrong.
>


I've had times where software would not work correctly.  Even after
searching with google, asking on this list and other means of tying to
figure out why, nothing is found.  There is no obvious reason for the
software not to work.  Even re-emerging the package doesn't help any. 
When I run into that, I run emerge -e world in order to rebuild every
package, regardless of how or even if it uses linking in any way. 
Almost every time I do that, the software starts working.  Obviously,
something was broken.  Odds are, something wasn't built against a
library correctly or some sort of linking was broken.

Also, I've ran emerge -e world after doing a emerge -uaDN world and it
turn up a number of new packages or new updates to be done.  Sometimes,
emerge -uaDN doesn't catch everything.  Since Michael is a developer, he
likely does things we don't normally do or maybe ever do in order to
catch problems.  Some developers just take pride in what they do and try
to do it right and do every test they can to make sure things work as
they should.  Some are quite good at it.

You were the one who asked about emerge -e world.  I'm just trying to
give some possible reasons for it.  There's quite a few to chose from. 
I'm sure Michael could add a few more as well. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[lego12239]

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 04:44:10AM -0500, Dale wrote:
> You ever think that developers may have to do things us users don't? 

Oh... Dale, that was a joke ;-).

> All we do is use portage/emerge to update our systems.  They have to
> write or update ebuilds, test them, push them to the tree and then test
> them some more.  They also have to try to make sure the code it creates
> works.  All of that takes a lot of time and effort.  Things we don't see. 

You tell obvious things. I talk not about that. Forget it.

> If you do a emerge -ea world, you will see changes that emerge -uaDN
> world won't because it considers every package on the system.  When you
> do emerge -uaDN world, it only looks for changes/updates to the world
> file and what they depend on but only to a point.  There is a huge
> difference. 
> 
> Run them both and observe the difference.  For a dev, that difference
> can reveal something important. 

I understand that. But in the context of our conversation(static vs dynamic
linking), if i understand correctly portage, "emerge -e @world" rebuild all
static-linked packages and all dynamic-linked packages. It simply rebuild
*all* packages in any case, right? So, there is no difference between
calling "emerge -e @world" against dynamic-linked packages or static-linked
packages. Thus, i can't understand why we talk about "emerge -e" at all.
May be i understand something wrong.

-- 
Олег Неманов (Oleg Nemanov)

Re: [gentoo-user] ALSA wizard...

[Jorge Almeida]

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 9:19 AM Michael  wrote:
>
> I recall you having problems recording with this device before, but since
> you're now a step ahead let's have another go at this, in case I may be able
> to help.

Yes, this is not the same issue (the former problem was: I wasn't
getting anything from the RCA output; maybe it isn't supposed to--no
documentation provided with the device--or that part is broken;
anyway, I gave up on the RCA; the device works fine as a USB sound
card)

>

> > > The setup:
> > > -- a microphone connected to an audio interface, which connects to an
> > > USB port in the computer. The interface works like a USB sound card,
> > > at least regarding sound capture. It works: I can record my voice with
> > > arecord into a wav file, and then play the file with aplay.
> > > -- a (motherboard) sound card with a toslink output connected to an
> > > external DAC/amplifier. It works: playing wav, youtube, etc.
> > >
> > > The problem:
> > > I need to use it for voice chat. I tried slack and discord (the latter
> > > both via browser and app--there's a package in portage--, the former
> > > only via browser). No sound, neither outbound nor inbound.
> > > None of these programs provides a way to tell them which devices to
> > > use, so I assume they just go for some default.
>
> Yes, this is the case or you're missing some audio module/driver/firmware,
> which is probably unlikely for a device which presents itself over a USB
> interface.
Yes, and the device works for recording; the playing together with the
other card (for output) is the problem, which I believe is a matter of
having an appropriate .asoundrc (the syntax of which beats me)

> If an application like vlc allows you to get audio output by
> switching devices, then you know you will have to change the order of your
> cards as they are detected by the kernel.

the kernel consistently detects the MO card and the USB card in the
same order (MO: card 0, USB: card 1).

>
> QUESTION:  I am not familiar with your hardware, but is dmesg *only*
> identifying it as a USB device?  I'm asking this because you may need to
> additionally configure e.g. a serial/parallel interface to the device for
> controlling it, or at least adding yourself to some user group, if USB alone
> won't suffice.
>
[  726.441114] input: Burr-Brown from TI   USB Audio CODEC
 as 
/devices/pci:00/:00:14.0/usb1/1-10/1-10:1.3/0003:08BB:2902.0005/input/input21
[  726.492970] hid-generic 0003:08BB:2902.0005: input,hidraw3: USB HID
v1.00 Device [Burr-Brown from TI   USB Audio CODEC ] on
usb-:00:14.0-10/input3
[  726.493002] usb 1-10: authorized to connect


I'm in the group "audio" and the permissions of /dev/snd/* are right (0660)
>
> > > I don't have a .asoundrc file. Contents of /etc/alsa/conf.d/ are not
> > > customized.
>
> OK, this is noteworthy, you may need to do some tweaking in such a file,
> depending which audio card is detected first and what controls are made
> available.



> > > sysdefault:CARD=PCH
>
> OK, this shows your audio card on the MoBo is picked up by default as the
> first card.
>
>
> > > HDA Intel PCH, Generic Analog
> > > Default Audio Device
> > >
> > > front:CARD=PCH,DEV=0
> > >
> > > HDA Intel PCH, Generic Analog
> > > Front speakers
> > >
> > > usbstream:CARD=PCH
> > >
> > > HDA Intel PCH
> > > USB Stream Output
> > >
> > > sysdefault:CARD=CODEC
>
> This is what you want to configure as the default audio device.

Only for capturing, not for playing!




>
> In the first instance create a new file (for system-wide settings):
>
>  /etc/asound.conf.
>
> Add in it:
>
> defaults.pcm.card 1
> defaults.pcm.device 0
> defaults.ctl.card 1
>
> which hopefully will make your second card configured to be the default.

But that will make the USB card the default for both input and output.
The USB card should take care of the input (microphone) and the MB
card should deal with the output (digital signal sent to external
DAC/amplifier via toslink cable).
>
> More detailed settings and tweaking can be found here:
>
> https://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Asoundrc

I know that page. It doesn't give a hint about how set defaults with
input and output through different cards.
>
Thanks

Jorge

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Dale]

lego12...@yandex.ru wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 04:02:13AM -0500, Dale wrote:
>> lego12...@yandex.ru wrote:
>>> Just interesting, why you need to sync every day?
>>> And why you need emerge -e, if you can use emerge -auND?
>> Might be because Michael is a Gentoo developer.  They have to sync a lot
>> as they make changes to the tree. 
> There is nothing to be done. He himself decided like that.
> No one forced :-D.

You ever think that developers may have to do things us users don't? 
All we do is use portage/emerge to update our systems.  They have to
write or update ebuilds, test them, push them to the tree and then test
them some more.  They also have to try to make sure the code it creates
works.  All of that takes a lot of time and effort.  Things we don't see. 

>> The two commands do different things.  Using emerge -e calculates
>> rebuilding every package while emerge -auDN only looks for certain
>> updates.  Each can be useful even if not allowed to complete.
> I know about it. I didn't understand why in usual case we need to
> do everytime emerge -e, instead of emerge -uND. But if we talk about os
> developer - it's clear(but why *everytime* emerge -e?).
>

If you do a emerge -ea world, you will see changes that emerge -uaDN
world won't because it considers every package on the system.  When you
do emerge -uaDN world, it only looks for changes/updates to the world
file and what they depend on but only to a point.  There is a huge
difference. 

Run them both and observe the difference.  For a dev, that difference
can reveal something important. 

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[lego12239]

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 04:02:13AM -0500, Dale wrote:
> lego12...@yandex.ru wrote:
> > Just interesting, why you need to sync every day?
> > And why you need emerge -e, if you can use emerge -auND?
> 
> Might be because Michael is a Gentoo developer.  They have to sync a lot
> as they make changes to the tree. 

There is nothing to be done. He himself decided like that.
No one forced :-D.

> The two commands do different things.  Using emerge -e calculates
> rebuilding every package while emerge -auDN only looks for certain
> updates.  Each can be useful even if not allowed to complete.

I know about it. I didn't understand why in usual case we need to
do everytime emerge -e, instead of emerge -uND. But if we talk about os
developer - it's clear(but why *everytime* emerge -e?).

-- 
Олег Неманов (Oleg Nemanov)

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[lego12239]

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 11:59:46AM +0300, Consus wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 11:52:52AM +0300, lego12...@yandex.ru wrote:
> > Nobody talk about "everything is statically linked".
> > However, this is a good idea ;-), but this is a topic for another
> > conversation :-).
> 
> No wonder Yandex considers you SPAM.

  Sorry about that :-). But it not me, Yandex mistakly considers
mailing list as a spam :-).

-- 
Олег Неманов (Oleg Nemanov)

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Dale]

lego12...@yandex.ru wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 03:19:26PM -0400, Michael Orlitzky wrote:
>
>> If you only sync once a day, then yes, you'll only have to rebuild once
>> a day. I sync considerably more than that though, and besides, it takes
>> me about a week to emerge -e @world.
> Just interesting, why you need to sync every day?
> And why you need emerge -e, if you can use emerge -auND?
>

Might be because Michael is a Gentoo developer.  They have to sync a lot
as they make changes to the tree. 

The two commands do different things.  Using emerge -e calculates
rebuilding every package while emerge -auDN only looks for certain
updates.  Each can be useful even if not allowed to complete.

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Consus]

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 11:52:52AM +0300, lego12...@yandex.ru wrote:
> Nobody talk about "everything is statically linked".
> However, this is a good idea ;-), but this is a topic for another
> conversation :-).

No wonder Yandex considers you SPAM.

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[lego12239]

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 03:19:26PM -0400, Michael Orlitzky wrote:
> It's not that everything depends on OpenSSL, but that everything depends
> on /something/. If everything is statically linked, then any update of
> any package sets off a chain reaction of other packages that trigger
> rebuilds of other packages that trigger rebuilds of...

Nobody talk about "everything is statically linked".
However, this is a good idea ;-), but this is a topic for another
conversation :-).

> If you only sync once a day, then yes, you'll only have to rebuild once
> a day. I sync considerably more than that though, and besides, it takes
> me about a week to emerge -e @world.

Just interesting, why you need to sync every day?
And why you need emerge -e, if you can use emerge -auND?

-- 
Олег Неманов (Oleg Nemanov)

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[lego12239]

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 03:24:07PM -0400, Michael Orlitzky wrote:
> FWIW, I do know there are situations where static linking is the right
> thing to do.

If you project require strong security, than it would be simpler to use static 
linking.
If you have many instances of the same program or have many shortlived 
processes of the
same program, than static linking is better(for ram and speed).

Michael, just read about history of shared object. That was not technical 
decision,
that was marketing decision.

-- 
Олег Неманов (Oleg Nemanov)

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[lego12239]

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 02:22:02PM -0500, Michael Jones wrote:
> But I don't generally want my entire system statically linked, only a few
> things.

But who said that *entire* system should be statically linked?
The conversation is so far only about such a critical thing as portage.

-- 
Олег Неманов (Oleg Nemanov)

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[lego12239]

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 02:33:45PM -0400, Michael Orlitzky wrote:
> If you statically link more than a few things, this is emerge -e @world
>  twenty times a day.

Hm :-D. And why it should be so? I run emerge one time in a week.
If there are any changes in a dependancy of some package, why
it can't be rebuild in the same emerge call?


-- 
Олег Неманов (Oleg Nemanov)

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[lego12239]

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 02:19:19PM -0400, Michael Orlitzky wrote:
> How do you plan to update all of your programs when there's a security
> vulnerability in, say, OpenSSL?

Hm. And why we need every package to be statically linked? I told just
that static linking is a good and useful feature. Moreover, what the
problem to rebuild all dependant packages? And yet, please don't tell
about this imaginary advantage of shared objects. Because, this is
in the same time and disadvantage too - we can just in ONE action supply a new
security vulnerability to ALL software that use openssl shared object.
Because all code has bugs :-). And if we talk about security code that
moment is significant and should be considered carefully.

So, we can say that for non-security software shared object can be
used thoughtlessly and everywhere. But even here it's not so simple.
Shared object is slow and consume more ram if we have many instances
of our software running than statically linked version(thanks to sharing
of common .text segments between all instances of a single program). And
plan9 experience told us that for something that used by many programs(like
openssl) it better to use services than shared object(in plan9 this implemented
with help of "file servers").

Shared object isn't a holly cow. And please let's not be fanatics.

-- 
Олег Неманов (Oleg Nemanov)

Re: [gentoo-user] ALSA wizard...

[Michael]

I recall you having problems recording with this device before, but since 
you're now a step ahead let's have another go at this, in case I may be able 
to help.

> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 2:57 PM Jorge Almeida  wrote:
> > ... desperately needed.
> > 
> > The setup:
> > -- a microphone connected to an audio interface, which connects to an
> > USB port in the computer. The interface works like a USB sound card,
> > at least regarding sound capture. It works: I can record my voice with
> > arecord into a wav file, and then play the file with aplay.
> > -- a (motherboard) sound card with a toslink output connected to an
> > external DAC/amplifier. It works: playing wav, youtube, etc.
> > 
> > The problem:
> > I need to use it for voice chat. I tried slack and discord (the latter
> > both via browser and app--there's a package in portage--, the former
> > only via browser). No sound, neither outbound nor inbound.
> > None of these programs provides a way to tell them which devices to
> > use, so I assume they just go for some default.

Yes, this is the case or you're missing some audio module/driver/firmware, 
which is probably unlikely for a device which presents itself over a USB 
interface.  If an application like vlc allows you to get audio output by 
switching devices, then you know you will have to change the order of your 
cards as they are detected by the kernel.

QUESTION:  I am not familiar with your hardware, but is dmesg *only* 
identifying it as a USB device?  I'm asking this because you may need to 
additionally configure e.g. a serial/parallel interface to the device for 
controlling it, or at least adding yourself to some user group, if USB alone 
won't suffice.


> > I don't have a .asoundrc file. Contents of /etc/alsa/conf.d/ are not
> > customized.

OK, this is noteworthy, you may need to do some tweaking in such a file, 
depending which audio card is detected first and what controls are made 
available.


> > Maybe some ALSA wiz that happens to be familiar with discord can
> > suggest something?
> > 
> > Thanks
> > 
> > Jorge Almeida
> > 
> > $ cat /proc/asound/devices
> > 
> >   1:: sequencer
> >   2: [ 0- 0]: digital audio playback
> >   3: [ 0- 0]: digital audio capture
> >   4: [ 0- 1]: digital audio playback
> >   5: [ 0- 2]: digital audio capture
> >   6: [ 0- 3]: digital audio playback
> >   7: [ 0]   : control
> >   8: [ 1- 0]: digital audio playback
> >   9: [ 1- 0]: digital audio capture
> >  
> >  10: [ 1]   : control
> >  33:: timer
> > 
> > $ arecord -L
> > null
> > 
> > Discard all samples (playback) or generate zero samples (capture)
> > 
> > sysdefault:CARD=PCH

OK, this shows your audio card on the MoBo is picked up by default as the 
first card.


> > HDA Intel PCH, Generic Analog
> > Default Audio Device
> > 
> > front:CARD=PCH,DEV=0
> > 
> > HDA Intel PCH, Generic Analog
> > Front speakers
> > 
> > usbstream:CARD=PCH
> > 
> > HDA Intel PCH
> > USB Stream Output
> > 
> > sysdefault:CARD=CODEC

This is what you want to configure as the default audio device.


> > USB Audio CODEC, USB Audio
> > Default Audio Device
> > 
> > front:CARD=CODEC,DEV=0
> > 
> > USB Audio CODEC, USB Audio
> > Front speakers
> > 
> > surround21:CARD=CODEC,DEV=0
> > 
> > USB Audio CODEC, USB Audio
> > 2.1 Surround output to Front and Subwoofer speakers
> > 
> > surround40:CARD=CODEC,DEV=0
> > 
> > USB Audio CODEC, USB Audio
> > 4.0 Surround output to Front and Rear speakers
> > 
> > surround41:CARD=CODEC,DEV=0
> > 
> > USB Audio CODEC, USB Audio
> > 4.1 Surround output to Front, Rear and Subwoofer speakers
> > 
> > surround50:CARD=CODEC,DEV=0
> > 
> > USB Audio CODEC, USB Audio
> > 5.0 Surround output to Front, Center and Rear speakers
> > 
> > surround51:CARD=CODEC,DEV=0
> > 
> > USB Audio CODEC, USB Audio
> > 5.1 Surround output to Front, Center, Rear and Subwoofer speakers
> > 
> > surround71:CARD=CODEC,DEV=0
> > 
> > USB Audio CODEC, USB Audio
> > 7.1 Surround output to Front, Center, Side, Rear and Woofer speakers
> > 
> > iec958:CARD=CODEC,DEV=0
> > 
> > USB Audio CODEC, USB Audio
> > IEC958 (S/PDIF) Digital Audio Output
> > 
> > usbstream:CARD=CODEC
> > 
> > USB Audio CODEC
> > USB Stream Output
> > 
> > $ aplay -L
> > null
> > 
> > Discard all samples (playback) or generate zero samples (capture)
> > 
> > sysdefault:CARD=PCH
> > 
> > HDA Intel PCH, Generic Analog
> > Default Audio Device
> > 
> > front:CARD=PCH,DEV=0
> > 
> > HDA Intel PCH, Generic Analog
> > Front speakers
> > 
> > surround21:CARD=PCH,DEV=0
> > 
> > HDA Intel PCH, Generic Analog
> > 2.1 Surround output to Front and Subwoofer speakers
> > 
> > surround40:CARD=PCH,DEV=0
> > 
> > HDA Intel PCH, Generic Analog
> > 4.0 Surround output to Front and Rear speakers
> > 
> > surround41:CARD=PCH,DEV=0
> > 
> > HDA Intel PCH, Generic Analog
> > 4.1 Surround output to 

Re: [gentoo-user] ALSA wizard...

[Jorge Almeida]

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 1:42 AM Mark Knecht  wrote:
>
> Jorge,
>Sorry for top posting. I'm at a site with limited capabilities at the 
> moment. Please forgive.

Forgiving someone for trying to help me? :)
(And, if memory serves, you were one of the first persons to help me,
in a sound related question, many years ago!)


>
>I'm slightly confused by the question but before I get into that please 
> provide the output of
>
> cat /proc/asound/cards
$ cat /proc/asound/cards
 0 [PCH]: HDA-Intel - HDA Intel PCH
  HDA Intel PCH at 0xf734 irq 137
 1 [CODEC  ]: USB-Audio - USB Audio CODEC
  Burr-Brown from TI USB Audio CODEC at
usb-:00:14.0-10, full speed

> cat /proc/asound/modules
$ cat /proc/asound/modules
cat: /proc/asound/modules: No such file or directory

(No wonder: I have it all in the kernel. But sound playing and
recording are both fine, the problem is how to setup defaults that use
two cards)
>
> What desktop environment are you using?
I use openbox (it is probably debatable whether it should be considered a DE)
Anyway, this is a low-level setup, no higher-level stuff on top of ALSA.
>
> What kernel are you running?
5.6.4 (off portage)
>
Thanks

Jorge