Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone here use Proton email service?
a > different thing entirely. T'bird has gone through 2 or 3 reincarnations, none as catastrophic as Kmail. T'bird users have complained things going awry at each major 'profile' upgrade, but most issues should be resolved if you start afresh with a new empty profile. I think today it is mostly OK, for most desktop users anyway. Kmail went through a terrible period after the move to KDE4 - it was released on an unsuspecting community without loud enough health warnings. Many users who did not keep extensive email backups lost messages. I tried to move away from Kmail, but ended up spending more time trying to configure and tweak different clients to work as I wanted, than using them to access my email. Eventually I gave up and returned to Kmail. Today its performance is tolerable, for my needs at least. There's a couple of quirks when setting up new accounts with some types of IMAP4 server implementations and its asynchronous message re-indexing can be quite sluggish when too many actions are queued up, but otherwise it just works as expected - YMMV. > I think if I can get something local, Dovecot maybe, then I can switch > from Gmail more easily and then just test drive email software until I > find one I like. Email is so complicated that at times it is hard to > know where to start. I think, might be wrong, setting up Dovecot first > and then I can switch providers later, just add account to Dovecot, and > then switch email software until I find one I like once that is done. I > could start with the IMAP thing and then switch to pop if I needed too. > One thing I like about current setup, I have folders and filters. > Everything gentoo-user goes into a gentoo-user folder. Things I order > from Ebay goes into a Ebay folder. I have sub folders for things I > don't get emails from to often. I'd like to do the same with IMAP but > I'm not real sure how IMAP works. I need to go find a video on Youtube > or something. What you are describing above is the basis of the IMAP4 folder structure. What protocol are you using to access Gmail? I suggest you get your head around POP3 Vs IMAP4 first: https://support.google.com/a/answer/12103?hl=en signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone here use Proton email service?
On 04/10/2024 09:01, Dale wrote:
Once I get started, maybe this will go smoothly this time. Just maybe.
You'll need to read the docu, but this is my dovecot config file. Note
that I have NOT changed any files that were installed with dovecot.
This file won't exist on a clean install, but it's pointed at by default
install file on a "use it if it exists" basis.
I've got (iirc) a user vmail which dovecot runs as, and as you can see
it uses /home/vmail as its data store for virtual users.
Cheers,
Wol# authentication configuration
auth_verbose = yes
auth_mechanisms = plain
passdb {
driver = passwd-file
args = /etc/dovecot/passwd
}
userdb {
driver = static
args = uid=vmail gid=vmail home=/home/vmail/%u
}
Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone here use Proton email service?
Wols Lists wrote: > On 03/10/2024 12:33, Michael wrote: >> Usually this is a POP3 setting. Instead of deleting a message from >> the server >> once it is downloaded by your client, you can configure it to delete the >> downloaded message with some delay. With IMAP4 you have to delete the >> messages from the server yourself and such deletion will be mirrored >> on your >> local storage too. Deleted message will be gone, unless you have >> copied/ >> archived such messages to a local folder first. > > Don't confuse the poor lad. POP3 (typically) downloads the message and > uses local mail client for storage. IMAP4 leaves everything on a mail > server. >> >> Think of IMAP4 and its associated MAILDIR folders storage structure >> as being >> similar to using a file manager (e.g. Dolphin). >> >> >>> Then I only >>> have the local copy with Dovecot or whatever. This would seem to be >>> the >>> easiest way to use any mail program I want. I really need to switch >>> from Seamonkey. > > Yup. That's what you want as far as I can tell. > >> Ah! This a new requirement. We started from I don't like Google >> snooping >> through my messages, to arrive at I am looking for a different email >> desktop >> client. > > Dale's been talking about this for ages. Possibly just didn't mention > it this thread, but it's been obvious to me he wanted a > client-agnostic solution. > > Cheers, > Wol > > Exactly. At some point, I expect Seamonkey to stop working and I'll be forced to use other software. Right now, I have no idea what that will be. I used Kmail ages ago. It developed issues and I switched to Seamonkey, back then Seamonkey was like Firefox or Chrome today. I also a while back test drove Thunderbird. One would think it is the closest to Seamonkey but it's different. I think at some point waaay back it was the same but has since been developed enough that it is a different thing entirely. I think if I can get something local, Dovecot maybe, then I can switch from Gmail more easily and then just test drive email software until I find one I like. Email is so complicated that at times it is hard to know where to start. I think, might be wrong, setting up Dovecot first and then I can switch providers later, just add account to Dovecot, and then switch email software until I find one I like once that is done. I could start with the IMAP thing and then switch to pop if I needed too. One thing I like about current setup, I have folders and filters. Everything gentoo-user goes into a gentoo-user folder. Things I order from Ebay goes into a Ebay folder. I have sub folders for things I don't get emails from to often. I'd like to do the same with IMAP but I'm not real sure how IMAP works. I need to go find a video on Youtube or something. Right now, this is like cutting that tree that was about 3 feet from my house. I want to cut it because of the falling limbs but it could fall on my house when I cut it and really tear up things. Once I got everything hooked up to the tree, I felt better about cutting it. For a while tho, the thought of cutting that tree was scary. It's getting started since I'm clueless on this thing that makes me nervous. :/ I may blow up Google or something. Wait . . . . I better not ask that question. ;-) They snoop. LOL Once I get started, maybe this will go smoothly this time. Just maybe. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone here use Proton email service?
On 03/10/2024 12:33, Michael wrote: Usually this is a POP3 setting. Instead of deleting a message from the server once it is downloaded by your client, you can configure it to delete the downloaded message with some delay. With IMAP4 you have to delete the messages from the server yourself and such deletion will be mirrored on your local storage too. Deleted message will be gone, unless you have copied/ archived such messages to a local folder first. Don't confuse the poor lad. POP3 (typically) downloads the message and uses local mail client for storage. IMAP4 leaves everything on a mail server. Think of IMAP4 and its associated MAILDIR folders storage structure as being similar to using a file manager (e.g. Dolphin). Then I only have the local copy with Dovecot or whatever. This would seem to be the easiest way to use any mail program I want. I really need to switch from Seamonkey. Yup. That's what you want as far as I can tell. Ah! This a new requirement. We started from I don't like Google snooping through my messages, to arrive at I am looking for a different email desktop client. Dale's been talking about this for ages. Possibly just didn't mention it this thread, but it's been obvious to me he wanted a client-agnostic solution. Cheers, Wol
Re: [gentoo-user] cronie setup questions
On Fri, 4 Oct 2024 at 01:47, Walter Dnes wrote: > My head hurts. Which config file do I enter the config into, and are > there any initialization steps? Is there a simpler cron program, if > that would help? As Dale said, 'crontab -e' to edit the current user's crontab is the easiest solution, which I also use with cronie. There you can paste in your config line without the user name. You can also edit /etc/crontab if you want, in this file the syntax includes a field to specify what user a command should run as, so here you could paste in your config line as is. Make sure to add the cronie service to a runlevel so it starts automatically: 'sudo rc-service add cronie default' Regards, Arve
Re: [gentoo-user] cronie setup questions
Walter Dnes wrote: > The Gentoo install suggested using "cronie". I want to run a script > daily as local user. The config I want is... > > 35 7 * * * waltdnes /home/waltdnes/pm/check4update/check4update > > I did some RTFM... > > * There is no "man cronie" but there is a /etc/init.d/cronie > * There is a "man cron" > * There is a "crond" and an "anacron" > * There is "/etc/crontab" and "/etc/anacrontab" > > My head hurts. Which config file do I enter the config into, and are > there any initialization steps? Is there a simpler cron program, if > that would help? > I set up a cron job ages ago on my old machine. Just so happens I made a note of a hard to find but needed step. Look for crontab command. According to my note, -e to add and -l to list. You can use the command run-parts /etc/cron. to see if your file works. Replace directory only part with daily, weekly etc etc. Tab completion comes in handy. Yea, I sometimes take notes. My little notes file is getting large now. That help? Dale :-) :-)
[gentoo-user] cronie setup questions
The Gentoo install suggested using "cronie". I want to run a script daily as local user. The config I want is... 35 7 * * * waltdnes /home/waltdnes/pm/check4update/check4update I did some RTFM... * There is no "man cronie" but there is a /etc/init.d/cronie * There is a "man cron" * There is a "crond" and an "anacron" * There is "/etc/crontab" and "/etc/anacrontab" My head hurts. Which config file do I enter the config into, and are there any initialization steps? Is there a simpler cron program, if that would help? -- There are 2 types of people 1) Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data
Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone here use Proton email service?
On Thu, 3 Oct 2024 at 16:44, Peter Humphrey wrote: > Not wishing to hijack the thread, but I've been trying for years, > intermittently, to get LAN mail working. It did work once, years ago, but I'm > damned if I can get it going again now. My problem is not with dovecot but > with postfix. Mail originating on the posfix machine goes where it should, but > not any from others on the LAN. Not wanting to hijack the hijack, and I don't really know which of these I set up myself, but just my seemingly related config that works to send mail from my server 'other' to postfix on 'this': this: /etc/postfix/aliases: arve@.lan arve /etc/postfix/main.cf: mynetworks = 192.168.0.0/24, 127.0.0.0/8 other: /etc/mail/local-host-names: etc/mail/mailertable: 192.168. smtp: esmtp: Obviously 'other' has 'this' in /etc/hosts. And then I send mail with 'sendmail arve@' (with sendmail from mail-mta/opensmtpd) Regards, Arve
Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone here use Proton email service?
On Thursday 3 October 2024 12:33:46 BST Michael wrote: > On Thursday 3 October 2024 10:37:44 BST Dale wrote: > > Also, I figure I could set it to > > delete after a few days or a week from the email provider. > > Usually this is a POP3 setting. Instead of deleting a message from the > server once it is downloaded by your client, you can configure it to delete > the downloaded message with some delay. With IMAP4 you have to delete the > messages from the server yourself and such deletion will be mirrored on > your local storage too. Deleted message will be gone, unless you have > copied/ archived such messages to a local folder first. The best ISP in the UK (according to Which?) does not offer IMAP; only POP. And POP mail disappears from their servers as soon as you fetch it. --->8 > > If I'm going to change, I may as well change in a way that gives me some > > options, especially with switching from Seamonkey. So far, I don't like > > other email software. They all lack something or other. > > > > I'll look into the wiki page. I can't recall what wouldn't work > > before. I just know I started it but never finished it. What do you dislike about KMail? I grumble about some of the key bindings, but otherwise it seems pretty good to me. Mostly, I can use it without touching the mouse, and I value that highly. -- Regards, Peter.
Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone here use Proton email service?
On Wednesday 2 October 2024 20:10:15 BST Wol wrote: > Make sure you set everything up in the local config file - look at the > global file that comes with dovecot, and at the end you'll see a pointer > to a non-existent local file. Set that up, and then make sure your email > client can see it. Move a couple of emails across and make sure they're > safe in dovecot. > > Then you just set up a rule on your internet provider's inbox, that > moves emails across to dovecot, and everything is local on your system. > Obviously, they'll stay on the internet provider's setup until they > expire, but they're on your system, they can be backed up, and they'll > not be on the internet to be mined or broken into or whatever for long. Not wishing to hijack the thread, but I've been trying for years, intermittently, to get LAN mail working. It did work once, years ago, but I'm damned if I can get it going again now. My problem is not with dovecot but with postfix. Mail originating on the posfix machine goes where it should, but not any from others on the LAN. -- Regards, Peter.
Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone here use Proton email service?
On Thursday 3 October 2024 10:37:44 BST Dale wrote: > Michael wrote: > > On Thursday 3 October 2024 05:30:58 BST Dale wrote: > >> Wol wrote: > >>> On 02/10/2024 19:47, Dale wrote: > Well, I'm not really wanting to do my own email server. In a way, > I'd like to have it so that everything is fetched, stored on my > system and then I can use any email software I want, Seamonkey, > Thunderbird, Mutt, Kmail or whatever, without losing a single email. > Thing is, even that sounds like more than I care to chew on. If > someone would share configs, editing private info of course, and I > could just drop those in and edit with my private info, I might > consider it. Thing is, I'm nervous about doing even that. Be my > luck, I'd screw up something and delete every email I've ever got. > > :/ It would be nice tho to have a program fetch my emails and then > > I can switch email software anytime without losing anything at all. > >>> > >>> This is my setup. > >>> > >>> I think I've talked about this before, but just emerge and set up > >>> dovecot. > >>> > >>> Make sure you set everything up in the local config file - look at the > >>> global file that comes with dovecot, and at the end you'll see a > >>> pointer to a non-existent local file. Set that up, and then make sure > >>> your email client can see it. Move a couple of emails across and make > >>> sure they're safe in dovecot. > >>> > >>> Then you just set up a rule on your internet provider's inbox, that > >>> moves emails across to dovecot, and everything is local on your > >>> system. Obviously, they'll stay on the internet provider's setup until > >>> they expire, but they're on your system, they can be backed up, and > >>> they'll not be on the internet to be mined or broken into or whatever > >>> for long. > >>> > >>> Cheers, > >>> Wol > >> > >> I think we tried this and I couldn't get it to work and gave up on it. > >> It's been a while back tho. From my understanding, it is supposed to be > >> simple but simple doesn't always mean I can do it. LOL Email providers > >> always changing things doesn't help either. > >> > >> Would this also work if I moved to Proton or something similar? > >> > >> Dale > >> > >> :-) :-) > > > > Do you need to have a local email storage *in addition* to the desktop > > email client downloading and storing your messages, if you are going to > > pay for a service provider to do the same thing for you? If yes, then > > dovecot is a good option - there's a page on the wiki with configuration > > details. > > Someone mentioned that I could use IMAP(???) or something so that it is > only stored on my local email server. IMAP4 is a more modern protocol for accessing your messages on a mail server than the older POP3 protocol. Dovecot can be configured to be accessible over either protocol. You can think of Dovecot as duplicating the function of the Gmail server, with the main difference being Dovecot will be storing your messages on your local PC, so you can access these with your email client(s) of choice. However, you can access the Gmail server over IMAP4 with your email client(s) of choice singularly and in parallel, so there is no difference in this respect. > Also, I figure I could set it to > delete after a few days or a week from the email provider. Usually this is a POP3 setting. Instead of deleting a message from the server once it is downloaded by your client, you can configure it to delete the downloaded message with some delay. With IMAP4 you have to delete the messages from the server yourself and such deletion will be mirrored on your local storage too. Deleted message will be gone, unless you have copied/ archived such messages to a local folder first. Think of IMAP4 and its associated MAILDIR folders storage structure as being similar to using a file manager (e.g. Dolphin). > Then I only > have the local copy with Dovecot or whatever. This would seem to be the > easiest way to use any mail program I want. I really need to switch > from Seamonkey. Ah! This a new requirement. We started from I don't like Google snooping through my messages, to arrive at I am looking for a different email desktop client. > Seamonkey is getting to where it isn't good for much > else. The email is about the only thing that works right. If I set > this up to be local, Proton or some other email provider, then it won't > matter what email program I use and hopefully what provider I use either. You can install/configure/test any other email desktop client to use IMAP4 to read your messages on Gmail as a start, until you settle on the desktop client of choice for you. Then consider what email service provider suits your needs as a separate step, depending on features and price. > If I'm going to change, I may as well change in a way that gives me some > options, especially with switching from Seamonkey. So f
Re: [gentoo-user] Bumping a version of a specific package
I was able to do the PR (38861)! Your guide was *extremely *helpful (already bookmarked 🙂) thank you very much! Best, Tomás* * On 10/3/24 07:25, Matt Jolly wrote: Hi Tomás, Opening a Pull Request to resolve your bug is not just OK, it's encouraged. Reading up on the bug you provided, the suggestion is to depend on the '3' slot of `dev-ruby/google-protobuf` - so it would look like this: ``` ruby_add_rdepend " dev-ruby/google-protobuf:3 dev-ruby/googleapis-common-protos-types:1 " ``` Aside from that, if you're able to bump the package (update the version) at the same time it's a real bonus. There are a few steps to setup a Gentoo Git workflow - just some things like package QA checks and GCO Signoff on commits. I've documented the process here: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/User:Kangie/Zero_to_Gentoo_PR_Hero It looks like you have a grounding in `git` so just skip down to `pkgcheck and pkgdev`, fork the mirror, and submit a PR. Don't worry about GPG signing your commit for now, but you can if you want to! Look forward to seeing your PR! Cheers, Matt On 3/10/24 01:37, Tomás Carvalho wrote: Hello folks, The package app-emulation/vagrant-2.4.1 seems to break with the latest (available in gentoo) dev-ruby/grpc (version 1.59.2), when I "bumped" the version to the current one (local overlay) vagrant seems to work fine :) (mainly changed the title of the ebuild file) I opened a bug in bugs.gentoo.org (939826) but I'm not sure about the meaning of the reply that I got... I'm also not sure if I should just do a pull request to bump the version of grpc or not... Could anyone please help (regarding updating the gentoo's upstream)? Thank you, Tomás C. 🙂
Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone here use Proton email service?
Michael wrote: > On Thursday 3 October 2024 05:30:58 BST Dale wrote: >> Wol wrote: >>> On 02/10/2024 19:47, Dale wrote: Well, I'm not really wanting to do my own email server. In a way, I'd like to have it so that everything is fetched, stored on my system and then I can use any email software I want, Seamonkey, Thunderbird, Mutt, Kmail or whatever, without losing a single email. Thing is, even that sounds like more than I care to chew on. If someone would share configs, editing private info of course, and I could just drop those in and edit with my private info, I might consider it. Thing is, I'm nervous about doing even that. Be my luck, I'd screw up something and delete every email I've ever got. :/ It would be nice tho to have a program fetch my emails and then I can switch email software anytime without losing anything at all. >>> This is my setup. >>> >>> I think I've talked about this before, but just emerge and set up >>> dovecot. >>> >>> Make sure you set everything up in the local config file - look at the >>> global file that comes with dovecot, and at the end you'll see a >>> pointer to a non-existent local file. Set that up, and then make sure >>> your email client can see it. Move a couple of emails across and make >>> sure they're safe in dovecot. >>> >>> Then you just set up a rule on your internet provider's inbox, that >>> moves emails across to dovecot, and everything is local on your >>> system. Obviously, they'll stay on the internet provider's setup until >>> they expire, but they're on your system, they can be backed up, and >>> they'll not be on the internet to be mined or broken into or whatever >>> for long. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Wol >> I think we tried this and I couldn't get it to work and gave up on it. >> It's been a while back tho. From my understanding, it is supposed to be >> simple but simple doesn't always mean I can do it. LOL Email providers >> always changing things doesn't help either. >> >> Would this also work if I moved to Proton or something similar? >> >> Dale >> >> :-) :-) > Do you need to have a local email storage *in addition* to the desktop email > client downloading and storing your messages, if you are going to pay for a > service provider to do the same thing for you? If yes, then dovecot is a > good > option - there's a page on the wiki with configuration details. Someone mentioned that I could use IMAP(???) or something so that it is only stored on my local email server. Also, I figure I could set it to delete after a few days or a week from the email provider. Then I only have the local copy with Dovecot or whatever. This would seem to be the easiest way to use any mail program I want. I really need to switch from Seamonkey. Seamonkey is getting to where it isn't good for much else. The email is about the only thing that works right. If I set this up to be local, Proton or some other email provider, then it won't matter what email program I use and hopefully what provider I use either. If I'm going to change, I may as well change in a way that gives me some options, especially with switching from Seamonkey. So far, I don't like other email software. They all lack something or other. I'll look into the wiki page. I can't recall what wouldn't work before. I just know I started it but never finished it. Dale :-) :-) P. S. It's a little after 4AM here. I couldn't sleep so I cooked a pork chop casserole a bit ago. I wish email had smell ability. I also need to get some energy to finish cutting up that nasty old sweet gum tree. Health issues suck.
Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone here use Proton email service?
On Thursday 3 October 2024 05:30:58 BST Dale wrote: > Wol wrote: > > On 02/10/2024 19:47, Dale wrote: > >> Well, I'm not really wanting to do my own email server. In a way, > >> I'd like to have it so that everything is fetched, stored on my > >> system and then I can use any email software I want, Seamonkey, > >> Thunderbird, Mutt, Kmail or whatever, without losing a single email. > >> Thing is, even that sounds like more than I care to chew on. If > >> someone would share configs, editing private info of course, and I > >> could just drop those in and edit with my private info, I might > >> consider it. Thing is, I'm nervous about doing even that. Be my > >> luck, I'd screw up something and delete every email I've ever got. > >> > >> :/ It would be nice tho to have a program fetch my emails and then > >> > >> I can switch email software anytime without losing anything at all. > > > > This is my setup. > > > > I think I've talked about this before, but just emerge and set up > > dovecot. > > > > Make sure you set everything up in the local config file - look at the > > global file that comes with dovecot, and at the end you'll see a > > pointer to a non-existent local file. Set that up, and then make sure > > your email client can see it. Move a couple of emails across and make > > sure they're safe in dovecot. > > > > Then you just set up a rule on your internet provider's inbox, that > > moves emails across to dovecot, and everything is local on your > > system. Obviously, they'll stay on the internet provider's setup until > > they expire, but they're on your system, they can be backed up, and > > they'll not be on the internet to be mined or broken into or whatever > > for long. > > > > Cheers, > > Wol > > I think we tried this and I couldn't get it to work and gave up on it. > It's been a while back tho. From my understanding, it is supposed to be > simple but simple doesn't always mean I can do it. LOL Email providers > always changing things doesn't help either. > > Would this also work if I moved to Proton or something similar? > > Dale > > :-) :-) Do you need to have a local email storage *in addition* to the desktop email client downloading and storing your messages, if you are going to pay for a service provider to do the same thing for you? If yes, then dovecot is a good option - there's a page on the wiki with configuration details. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Bumping a version of a specific package
Hi Tomás, Opening a Pull Request to resolve your bug is not just OK, it's encouraged. Reading up on the bug you provided, the suggestion is to depend on the '3' slot of `dev-ruby/google-protobuf` - so it would look like this: ``` ruby_add_rdepend " dev-ruby/google-protobuf:3 dev-ruby/googleapis-common-protos-types:1 " ``` Aside from that, if you're able to bump the package (update the version) at the same time it's a real bonus. There are a few steps to setup a Gentoo Git workflow - just some things like package QA checks and GCO Signoff on commits. I've documented the process here: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/User:Kangie/Zero_to_Gentoo_PR_Hero It looks like you have a grounding in `git` so just skip down to `pkgcheck and pkgdev`, fork the mirror, and submit a PR. Don't worry about GPG signing your commit for now, but you can if you want to! Look forward to seeing your PR! Cheers, Matt On 3/10/24 01:37, Tomás Carvalho wrote: Hello folks, The package app-emulation/vagrant-2.4.1 seems to break with the latest (available in gentoo) dev-ruby/grpc (version 1.59.2), when I "bumped" the version to the current one (local overlay) vagrant seems to work fine :) (mainly changed the title of the ebuild file) I opened a bug in bugs.gentoo.org (939826) but I'm not sure about the meaning of the reply that I got... I'm also not sure if I should just do a pull request to bump the version of grpc or not... Could anyone please help (regarding updating the gentoo's upstream)? Thank you, Tomás C. 🙂
Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone here use Proton email service?
Wol wrote: > On 02/10/2024 19:47, Dale wrote: >> Well, I'm not really wanting to do my own email server. In a way, >> I'd like to have it so that everything is fetched, stored on my >> system and then I can use any email software I want, Seamonkey, >> Thunderbird, Mutt, Kmail or whatever, without losing a single email. >> Thing is, even that sounds like more than I care to chew on. If >> someone would share configs, editing private info of course, and I >> could just drop those in and edit with my private info, I might >> consider it. Thing is, I'm nervous about doing even that. Be my >> luck, I'd screw up something and delete every email I've ever got. >> :/ It would be nice tho to have a program fetch my emails and then >> I can switch email software anytime without losing anything at all. > > This is my setup. > > I think I've talked about this before, but just emerge and set up > dovecot. > > Make sure you set everything up in the local config file - look at the > global file that comes with dovecot, and at the end you'll see a > pointer to a non-existent local file. Set that up, and then make sure > your email client can see it. Move a couple of emails across and make > sure they're safe in dovecot. > > Then you just set up a rule on your internet provider's inbox, that > moves emails across to dovecot, and everything is local on your > system. Obviously, they'll stay on the internet provider's setup until > they expire, but they're on your system, they can be backed up, and > they'll not be on the internet to be mined or broken into or whatever > for long. > > Cheers, > Wol > > I think we tried this and I couldn't get it to work and gave up on it. It's been a while back tho. From my understanding, it is supposed to be simple but simple doesn't always mean I can do it. LOL Email providers always changing things doesn't help either. Would this also work if I moved to Proton or something similar? Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone here use Proton email service?
On 02/10/2024 19:47, Dale wrote: Well, I'm not really wanting to do my own email server. In a way, I'd like to have it so that everything is fetched, stored on my system and then I can use any email software I want, Seamonkey, Thunderbird, Mutt, Kmail or whatever, without losing a single email. Thing is, even that sounds like more than I care to chew on. If someone would share configs, editing private info of course, and I could just drop those in and edit with my private info, I might consider it. Thing is, I'm nervous about doing even that. Be my luck, I'd screw up something and delete every email I've ever got. :/ It would be nice tho to have a program fetch my emails and then I can switch email software anytime without losing anything at all. This is my setup. I think I've talked about this before, but just emerge and set up dovecot. Make sure you set everything up in the local config file - look at the global file that comes with dovecot, and at the end you'll see a pointer to a non-existent local file. Set that up, and then make sure your email client can see it. Move a couple of emails across and make sure they're safe in dovecot. Then you just set up a rule on your internet provider's inbox, that moves emails across to dovecot, and everything is local on your system. Obviously, they'll stay on the internet provider's setup until they expire, but they're on your system, they can be backed up, and they'll not be on the internet to be mined or broken into or whatever for long. Cheers, Wol
Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone here use Proton email service?
Michael wrote: > On Wednesday 2 October 2024 14:10:39 BST Dale wrote: > >> I just want to switch from Gmail. I don't really need encryption >> stuff. I wouldn't mind doing my own but I have no clue where to even >> start on that. >> >> Dale >> >> :-) :-) > Some links for your consideration: > > https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Simple_mail_server_with_webmail > > https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Complete_Virtual_Mail_Server > > https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Category:Mail_Servers > > https://forwardemail.net/en/blog/open-source/gentoo-linux-email-server > > There's also mailinabox and similar on premises binary solutions: > > https://github.com/mail-in-a-box/mailinabox > > HOWEVER, setting up the mail server itself is the easy part. Getting it > working along with reverse DNS, Let's Encrypt TLS certificates, SPF/DKIM/ > DMARC/DNSSEC-DANE without your domain being blacklisted at the drop of a hat, > while you're fighting permanently against spam and intruders can soon become > a > full time occupation. All this assumes your domestic ISP allows their > domestic customers to run mail servers - many don't/won't. > > I don't mean to discourage you, it is an interesting project to get into and > you'll have the benefit of controlling your own server, your own data, > without > paying some Internet provider with either your data privacy, or your money. > With low power NUC devices or a Raspberry Pi, you could run your own server > at > less cost than most hosting companies will charge you, even if you allow for > some hardware redundancy, backups and hot/cold standby. > > Alternatively, if you can find a locally owned and run ISP with motivated > staff, it may be a good half-way compromise between Big-Tech and on-premises > mail hosting. Note though, a lot of smaller shops are just a front-end > marketing effort, with outsourced back end operations run by the Big Tech. Well, I'm not really wanting to do my own email server. In a way, I'd like to have it so that everything is fetched, stored on my system and then I can use any email software I want, Seamonkey, Thunderbird, Mutt, Kmail or whatever, without losing a single email. Thing is, even that sounds like more than I care to chew on. If someone would share configs, editing private info of course, and I could just drop those in and edit with my private info, I might consider it. Thing is, I'm nervous about doing even that. Be my luck, I'd screw up something and delete every email I've ever got. :/ It would be nice tho to have a program fetch my emails and then I can switch email software anytime without losing anything at all. What I'm looking for is like a paid version of Gmail or Yahoo but is private. They don't snoop, even for internal purposes like ads. I'd also like it to be in a country that tells certain other snoopers to go pound sand. From my understanding, some countries won't share info no matter what. I think Proton is one of those. Since everything is encrypted, even if they did share it, it's encrypted. I think LastPass and Bitwarden are set up the same way. They can't access a users passwords because it is encrypted before they get it. Even if they get some legal order to share, it won't do them any good, unless someone set a stupid password that can be easily guessed. It sounds like Proton is encrypted end to end. I don't *really* need that much security, my biggest amount of emails is mostly this mailing list which is public anyway. Still, it is based in a country that has serious privacy laws and they can't read it even if they wanted too. It's also not very expensive. It's a little bit of overkill for what I need but . . . . I also noticed they have a VPN service. I just renewed my Surfshark a couple weeks ago for another two years. Once that is up tho, I could switch my VPN to them and have one place doing VPN and email. Then you add in the software is in the Gentoo tree and ready to install, dang, this just sounds good. I'm open to ideas. There may be something better than Proton. Still, it sounds good. Price isn't bad either. I think I could even back up my cell phone to it as well with a paid plan. I might even be able to set it up without messing up something. ROFL Dale :-) :-)
[gentoo-user] Bumping a version of a specific package
Hello folks, The package app-emulation/vagrant-2.4.1 seems to break with the latest (available in gentoo) dev-ruby/grpc (version 1.59.2), when I "bumped" the version to the current one (local overlay) vagrant seems to work fine :) (mainly changed the title of the ebuild file) I opened a bug in bugs.gentoo.org (939826) but I'm not sure about the meaning of the reply that I got... I'm also not sure if I should just do a pull request to bump the version of grpc or not... Could anyone please help (regarding updating the gentoo's upstream)? Thank you, Tomás C. 🙂
Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone here use Proton email service?
mad.scientist.at.la...@tutanota.com wrote: > Proton does keep other people from reading your' email. I've been stalked by > google based on my interest/emails after they bought the provider I was > using. > > But yes, if your' scenario involves any thing the spooks might be interested > in, you can bet the spy agencies can crack it, at least the large ones. It > does provide some security for janky communication, but yeah, for major > felonies it won't help. But you've probably created a lot of evidence in > that case anyway. > > If you're worried about NSA, you really, really don't want to do whatever you > thought you wanted to do. NSA had the first transatlantic phone cable > tapped, under water within 24 hours. When the telcos started using > satellites they set up an operation in Australia to intercept it. If you've > ever made an international call it's best to assume some one recorded or > monitored it. > > --"Fascism begins the moment a ruling class, fearing the people may use their > political democracy to gain economic democracy, begins to destroy political > democracy in order to retain its power of exploitation and special > privilege." Tommy Douglas > > > > > Oct 2, 2024, 03:27 by l...@laincorp.tech: > >> >> >> On 10/2/24 11:59, Dale wrote: >> >>> Howdy,As some know from my posts, I been wanting to switch email providers. >>> Ifound Proton Mail and notice there is a app available for it in theGentoo >>> tree. It appears to have Gentoo support unlike most. Doesanyone here use >>> Proton email service? It may be more secure than I needbut it sounds like >>> I can use it like as a replacement for Gmail. Itsounds like it is >>> encrypted between me and Proton then if needed,decrypted from there. Of >>> course, it seems I can send encrypted email,encrypted by Seamonkey and it's >>> encryption, as well. That would remainencrypted until it reaches the >>> person I'm sending to just like it doeswith Gmail. I'm just curious if >>> anyone here uses it. Given it is in the tree, Ifigure someone does. >>> Trying to see if this is what I need or not. Thanks.Dale:-) :-) >>> >> There's not pretty much difference with something like Gmail. If you want to >> do something illegal - your > encrypted> correspondence will suddenly be >> decrypted for those who are interested. If you want true security and >> privacy - just selfhost your own email inbox. It's worth no more than 1 euro >> and one or two hours, maybe more, if you not very tech-savyy. >> -- Arthur >> >> I just want to switch from Gmail. I don't really need encryption stuff. I wouldn't mind doing my own but I have no clue where to even start on that. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone here use Proton email service?
Proton does keep other people from reading your' email. I've been stalked by google based on my interest/emails after they bought the provider I was using. But yes, if your' scenario involves any thing the spooks might be interested in, you can bet the spy agencies can crack it, at least the large ones. It does provide some security for janky communication, but yeah, for major felonies it won't help. But you've probably created a lot of evidence in that case anyway. If you're worried about NSA, you really, really don't want to do whatever you thought you wanted to do. NSA had the first transatlantic phone cable tapped, under water within 24 hours. When the telcos started using satellites they set up an operation in Australia to intercept it. If you've ever made an international call it's best to assume some one recorded or monitored it. --"Fascism begins the moment a ruling class, fearing the people may use their political democracy to gain economic democracy, begins to destroy political democracy in order to retain its power of exploitation and special privilege." Tommy Douglas Oct 2, 2024, 03:27 by l...@laincorp.tech: > > > > On 10/2/24 11:59, Dale wrote: > >> Howdy,As some know from my posts, I been wanting to switch email providers. >> Ifound Proton Mail and notice there is a app available for it in theGentoo >> tree. It appears to have Gentoo support unlike most. Doesanyone here use >> Proton email service? It may be more secure than I needbut it sounds like I >> can use it like as a replacement for Gmail. Itsounds like it is encrypted >> between me and Proton then if needed,decrypted from there. Of course, it >> seems I can send encrypted email,encrypted by Seamonkey and it's encryption, >> as well. That would remainencrypted until it reaches the person I'm sending >> to just like it doeswith Gmail. I'm just curious if anyone here uses it. >> Given it is in the tree, Ifigure someone does. Trying to see if this is >> what I need or not. Thanks.Dale:-) :-) >> > There's not pretty much difference with something like Gmail. If you want to > do something illegal - your > encrypted> correspondence will suddenly be > decrypted for those who are interested. If you want true security and privacy > - just selfhost your own email inbox. It's worth no more than 1 euro and one > or two hours, maybe more, if you not very tech-savyy. > -- Arthur >
Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone here use Proton email service?
On 10/2/24 11:59, Dale wrote: Howdy, As some know from my posts, I been wanting to switch email providers. I found Proton Mail and notice there is a app available for it in the Gentoo tree. It appears to have Gentoo support unlike most. Does anyone here use Proton email service? It may be more secure than I need but it sounds like I can use it like as a replacement for Gmail. It sounds like it is encrypted between me and Proton then if needed, decrypted from there. Of course, it seems I can send encrypted email, encrypted by Seamonkey and it's encryption, as well. That would remain encrypted until it reaches the person I'm sending to just like it does with Gmail. I'm just curious if anyone here uses it. Given it is in the tree, I figure someone does. Trying to see if this is what I need or not. Thanks. Dale :-) :-) There's not pretty much difference with something like Gmail. If you want to do something illegal - your /encrypted/ correspondence will suddenly be decrypted for those who are interested. If you want true security and privacy - just selfhost your own email inbox. It's worth no more than 1 euro and one or two hours, maybe more, if you not very tech-savyy. -- Arthur
Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone here use Proton email service?
I'm using it, for over 5 years now. Generally very happy, great up time and fast bug squashing. The only real issue I have is it's become slower at log on (fine after that other than logging out) since they started offering calendars and other gadgets. Slightly annoyed that their proxy service requires system-d unless you want to run everything through the router/firewall. i.e. if you don't want all of your' traffic sent over a proxy. I made the mistake of trying to buy something on new egg using Tor, about 8 years ago. Even with a different credit card they are still a bit hinky. Glad they blocked it, but it would be nice not to have to go to ups to pick up my geek gear. Oct 1, 2024, 22:59 by rdalek1...@gmail.com: > Howdy, > > As some know from my posts, I been wanting to switch email providers. I > found Proton Mail and notice there is a app available for it in the > Gentoo tree. It appears to have Gentoo support unlike most. Does > anyone here use Proton email service? It may be more secure than I need > but it sounds like I can use it like as a replacement for Gmail. It > sounds like it is encrypted between me and Proton then if needed, > decrypted from there. Of course, it seems I can send encrypted email, > encrypted by Seamonkey and it's encryption, as well. That would remain > encrypted until it reaches the person I'm sending to just like it does > with Gmail. > > I'm just curious if anyone here uses it. Given it is in the tree, I > figure someone does. Trying to see if this is what I need or not. > > Thanks. > > Dale > > :-) :-) >
[gentoo-user] Anyone here use Proton email service?
Howdy, As some know from my posts, I been wanting to switch email providers. I found Proton Mail and notice there is a app available for it in the Gentoo tree. It appears to have Gentoo support unlike most. Does anyone here use Proton email service? It may be more secure than I need but it sounds like I can use it like as a replacement for Gmail. It sounds like it is encrypted between me and Proton then if needed, decrypted from there. Of course, it seems I can send encrypted email, encrypted by Seamonkey and it's encryption, as well. That would remain encrypted until it reaches the person I'm sending to just like it does with Gmail. I'm just curious if anyone here uses it. Given it is in the tree, I figure someone does. Trying to see if this is what I need or not. Thanks. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] How to setup internal email sending
Il 29/09/24 21:42, Dale ha scritto: ralfconn wrote: Funny, [4] suggests going back to seamonkey for movemail support. I once was a happy seamonkey user then switched to FF/TB because SM seemed unmaintained, but from the website it looks like it's still alive and kicking. raf [1] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1625741 [2] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1625741#c35 [3] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1802145 [4] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1625741#c81 I think Seamonkey mostly gets bug fixes and updates so that it compiles with new tools and works with newer software. I don't think it gets much else. I am constantly running into sites that don't work right or even load with Seamonkey but work fine with Firefox. Some may recall the massive Firefox rewrite a few years ago. Once Firefox got the kinks worked out, it was a huge improvement. Also, add-ons were redone as well. Seamonkey needs to do the same because there are few add-ons that work with Seamonkey now. You have to use the old add-ons, if you can find them, to use anything and almost none of them get updated. As a example, I switched from Lastpass to Bitwarden. I have to use Lastpass on any site I want to access that uses passwords because Bitwarden doesn't have a up to date add-on for Seamonkey. Lastpass doesn't either. It's still stuck on the last version since Firefox did it's rewrite and add-on change. Yea, no security updates either. Basically, the only reason I still have Lastpass, it was already installed. If I were to remove Lastpass, I may not be able to get it back. If it stopped working, it would be dead. There is no update for it in Seamonkey. In my opinion, Seamonkey is slowly dying unless enough people step up and update it to work like Firefox, including add-ons, and is coded in a way that websites work like Firefox does. I mostly use it for the email part and would like to switch but I don't like Thunderbird to much. Links is my biggest problem. If I click on a link, it wants to open a new instance of Firefox instead of asking me which instance I want to open in with a new tab. As I type, I have four instances of Firefox open. Each one had a different set of add-ons installed and are used for different tasks. When I click on a link, I just need it to open in a new tab and ask me where to do it. If anyone were to ask me if they should start using Seamonkey, I'd say no. It worries me that at some point, it isn't even going to work well enough just for the email part. That is about the only part of it that really works OK. For web browsing, it's Firefox for 99% of things I do here. As it is, I have to copy links in Seamonkey email and then paste the link in a new tab in Firefox on occasion. It's annoying. Thanks Dale, great explanation (as usual!) raf
Re: [gentoo-user] Thunderbird oddity
On Monday 30 September 2024 11:00:09 BST Frank Steinmetzger wrote: > Am Sun, Sep 29, 2024 at 03:20:06PM +0100 schrieb Peter Humphrey: > > On Sunday 29 September 2024 13:03:04 BST Michael wrote: > > > On Sunday 29 September 2024 12:11:13 BST Peter Humphrey wrote: > > > > On Sunday 29 September 2024 10:08:36 BST Wols Lists wrote: > > > > > It's actually been like this a while - but my Thunderbird has lost > > > > > its > > > > > title bar. The top bars are the search bar, with the menu bar > > > > > underneath > > > > > it. So I have an "X" to close thunderbird with on the search bar, > > > > > but > > > > > that's it. The "v" and "^" to maximise and minimise aren't there > > > > > because > > > > > the bar they live on isn't there. > > > > > > > > > > How do I get my bar back? -) > > > > > > > > Firefox has been like that here for some months now. Either ALT-F3 and > > > > move > > > > it, if that's what you want, or CRTL-Q and restart it somewhere else. > > > > > > If you right click twice near the top edge of the window, then the > > > Plasma > > > window menu show up. From there you can select to minimise/maximise. > > > > Yes, but why has FF shrugged off the standard presentation of a program > > window? And why is it allowed to get away with it? > > It’s been doing this for very many a year in Windows already (I think Chrome > started that trend), and also in Gnome everything “has to be”™ a unified > window titlebar now. A main reason for avoiding Gnome: its adoption of the Windows attitude - we know what you need better than you do - go and sit quietly in the corner. -- Regards, Peter.
Re: [gentoo-user] Thunderbird oddity
On 9/29/24 10:20 AM, Peter Humphrey wrote: > Yes, but why has FF shrugged off the standard presentation of a > program window? Because they want to. Because other browsers do it. Because Desktop Environments have started to do it. Because none of these three groups care what users want. > And why is it allowed to get away with it? Better ask why gnome is allowed to get away with it. The reason why Mozilla is allowed to get away with it is much more obvious: Mozilla is a for-profit corporation, and Firefox is a side project for them which they avoid talking about because browsers embarrass them. This makes Firefox trend towards being as bad as every other browser already is (Firefox is still edging by on being a bit better than the competition, for now), but writing a browser from scratch that supports currently existing websites (i.e. isn't a toy like lynx) is a challenging endeavor and there is very little competition at all. (It is fascinating that there is actually any competition at all. But Ladybird does exist, somehow!) -- Eli Schwartz OpenPGP_signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Thunderbird oddity
Am Sun, Sep 29, 2024 at 03:20:06PM +0100 schrieb Peter Humphrey: > On Sunday 29 September 2024 13:03:04 BST Michael wrote: > > On Sunday 29 September 2024 12:11:13 BST Peter Humphrey wrote: > > > On Sunday 29 September 2024 10:08:36 BST Wols Lists wrote: > > > > It's actually been like this a while - but my Thunderbird has lost its > > > > title bar. The top bars are the search bar, with the menu bar underneath > > > > it. So I have an "X" to close thunderbird with on the search bar, but > > > > that's it. The "v" and "^" to maximise and minimise aren't there because > > > > the bar they live on isn't there. > > > > > > > > How do I get my bar back? -) > > > > > > Firefox has been like that here for some months now. Either ALT-F3 and > > > move > > > it, if that's what you want, or CRTL-Q and restart it somewhere else. > > > > If you right click twice near the top edge of the window, then the Plasma > > window menu show up. From there you can select to minimise/maximise. > > Yes, but why has FF shrugged off the standard presentation of a program > window? > And why is it allowed to get away with it? It’s been doing this for very many a year in Windows already (I think Chrome started that trend), and also in Gnome everything “has to be”™ a unified window titlebar now. -- Grüße | Greetings | Salut | Qapla’ Please do not share anything from, with or about me on any social network. Computers are the most congenial product of human laziness to-date. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Plasma 6 / KDE upgrade weirdo
On 29/09/2024 11:04, Michael wrote: On Sunday 29 September 2024 10:04:42 BST Wols Lists wrote: Since I emerged and Plasma got upgraded, my configuration isn't remembered from the previous state, nor does it get saved ... Then I ran dolphin from the command line, and got an error that REALLY doesn't make sense! anthony@thewolery ~/Scans/HP-M477/2024_09_28 $ dolphin . & [1] 23240 anthony@thewolery ~/Scans/HP-M477/2024_09_28 $ kf.config.core: Created a KConfigGroup on an inaccessible config location "/home/gina/.directory" "Desktop Entry" [1]+ Donedolphin . anthony@thewolery ~/Scans/HP-M477/2024_09_28 $ dolphin . & [1] 23368 anthony@thewolery ~/Scans/HP-M477/2024_09_28 $ kf.config.core: Created a KConfigGroup on an inaccessible config location "/home/gina/.directory" "Desktop Entry" You can see I've actually run the command line twice, but the weirdo is, as you can see from the system prompt I'm logged in as "anthony". So why oh why is plasma looking in my wife's home directory for config info !!! How does it even KNOW about my wife's account? I presume if I fix this, everything else will sort itself out, but this is just weird. Cheers, Wol It's a guess, your 'Frequently Used' Plasma Places/Directories may contain a previous instance of you accessing /home/gina/.directory to store some scanned documents. Click on the K-menu, at the bottom select 'Places', at the left menu list you'll see 'History' and 'Frequently Used'. If you right click on the right menu list of places/directories, you get an option to forget all or forget the selected directory. Alternative you could grep for "gina" in your ~/.local/share/recently- used.xbel anthony@thewolery ~/.local/share $ cat recently-used.xbel | grep gina added="2024-09-29T14:25:45.995000Z" modified="2024-09-29T14:25:45.995000Z" visited="2024-09-29T14:25:45.995000Z"> anthony@thewolery ~/.local/share $ So there is a reference to file in my wife's home directory, but nested a good way down. Not in her root ... And why would it be messing around with the .directory file anyway? Cheers, Wol
Re: [gentoo-user] How to setup internal email sending
ralfconn wrote: > Il 31/08/24 19:55, Michael ha scritto: >> On Saturday, 31 August 2024 18:37:06 BST ralfconn wrote: >> >>> I did not have success making the mail client (thunderbird in my case) >>> read from a local mailbox so I ended up configuring the MTA >>> (nullmailer) >>> to forward the messages produced by my local daemons or shell >>> scripts to >>> one of the external mail servers I already used for thunderbird. >> >> Probably not relevant to the OP, but did you try to configure T'bird >> to look >> at a local folder where your mail was stored (you'll probably need >> T'bird's >> movemail for this): >> >> https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1341209 >> https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1718795 >> >> I've been able to access local mail storage with mutt and with Kmail >> - but >> have not tried T'bird. > > I've finally had a chance to look at movemail in TB, seems it was > removed approximately 7 years ago [1]. Somebody posted a possible > workaround [2] but I'm not going that way. 2 years ago there was the > intention to restore it but I see no activity on that bug. > > Funny, [4] suggests going back to seamonkey for movemail support. I > once was a happy seamonkey user then switched to FF/TB because SM > seemed unmaintained, but from the website it looks like it's still > alive and kicking. > > raf > > [1] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1625741 > [2] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1625741#c35 > [3] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1802145 > [4] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1625741#c81 > > I think Seamonkey mostly gets bug fixes and updates so that it compiles with new tools and works with newer software. I don't think it gets much else. I am constantly running into sites that don't work right or even load with Seamonkey but work fine with Firefox. Some may recall the massive Firefox rewrite a few years ago. Once Firefox got the kinks worked out, it was a huge improvement. Also, add-ons were redone as well. Seamonkey needs to do the same because there are few add-ons that work with Seamonkey now. You have to use the old add-ons, if you can find them, to use anything and almost none of them get updated. As a example, I switched from Lastpass to Bitwarden. I have to use Lastpass on any site I want to access that uses passwords because Bitwarden doesn't have a up to date add-on for Seamonkey. Lastpass doesn't either. It's still stuck on the last version since Firefox did it's rewrite and add-on change. Yea, no security updates either. Basically, the only reason I still have Lastpass, it was already installed. If I were to remove Lastpass, I may not be able to get it back. If it stopped working, it would be dead. There is no update for it in Seamonkey. In my opinion, Seamonkey is slowly dying unless enough people step up and update it to work like Firefox, including add-ons, and is coded in a way that websites work like Firefox does. I mostly use it for the email part and would like to switch but I don't like Thunderbird to much. Links is my biggest problem. If I click on a link, it wants to open a new instance of Firefox instead of asking me which instance I want to open in with a new tab. As I type, I have four instances of Firefox open. Each one had a different set of add-ons installed and are used for different tasks. When I click on a link, I just need it to open in a new tab and ask me where to do it. If anyone were to ask me if they should start using Seamonkey, I'd say no. It worries me that at some point, it isn't even going to work well enough just for the email part. That is about the only part of it that really works OK. For web browsing, it's Firefox for 99% of things I do here. As it is, I have to copy links in Seamonkey email and then paste the link in a new tab in Firefox on occasion. It's annoying. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Thunderbird oddity
On 29/09/2024 13:03, Michael wrote: On Sunday 29 September 2024 12:11:13 BST Peter Humphrey wrote: On Sunday 29 September 2024 10:08:36 BST Wols Lists wrote: It's actually been like this a while - but my Thunderbird has lost its title bar. The top bars are the search bar, with the menu bar underneath it. So I have an "X" to close thunderbird with on the search bar, but that's it. The "v" and "^" to maximise and minimise aren't there because the bar they live on isn't there. How do I get my bar back? -) Firefox has been like that here for some months now. Either ALT-F3 and move it, if that's what you want, or CRTL-Q and restart it somewhere else. If you right click twice near the top edge of the window, then the Plasma window menu show up. From there you can select to minimise/maximise. Good to know, thanks ... Cheers, Wol
Re: [gentoo-user] Thunderbird oddity
On 29/09/2024 11:47, Viorel Munteanu wrote: La 29.09.2024 12:08, Wols Lists a scris: It's actually been like this a while - but my Thunderbird has lost its title bar. The top bars are the search bar, with the menu bar underneath it. So I have an "X" to close thunderbird with on the search bar, but that's it. The "v" and "^" to maximise and minimise aren't there because the bar they live on isn't there. How do I get my bar back? -) (The bar is quite happily on the window I'm typing this email in, just not on my main Thunderbird window.) Cheers, Wol Settings -> General -> Window Layout -> Hide system window titlebar Thank you very much, that's fixed it! Cheers, Wol
Re: [gentoo-user] How to setup internal email sending
Il 31/08/24 19:55, Michael ha scritto: On Saturday, 31 August 2024 18:37:06 BST ralfconn wrote: I did not have success making the mail client (thunderbird in my case) read from a local mailbox so I ended up configuring the MTA (nullmailer) to forward the messages produced by my local daemons or shell scripts to one of the external mail servers I already used for thunderbird. Probably not relevant to the OP, but did you try to configure T'bird to look at a local folder where your mail was stored (you'll probably need T'bird's movemail for this): https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1341209 https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1718795 I've been able to access local mail storage with mutt and with Kmail - but have not tried T'bird. I've finally had a chance to look at movemail in TB, seems it was removed approximately 7 years ago [1]. Somebody posted a possible workaround [2] but I'm not going that way. 2 years ago there was the intention to restore it but I see no activity on that bug. Funny, [4] suggests going back to seamonkey for movemail support. I once was a happy seamonkey user then switched to FF/TB because SM seemed unmaintained, but from the website it looks like it's still alive and kicking. raf [1] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1625741 [2] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1625741#c35 [3] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1802145 [4] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1625741#c81
Re: [gentoo-user] Thunderbird oddity
On Sunday 29 September 2024 13:03:04 BST Michael wrote: > On Sunday 29 September 2024 12:11:13 BST Peter Humphrey wrote: > > On Sunday 29 September 2024 10:08:36 BST Wols Lists wrote: > > > It's actually been like this a while - but my Thunderbird has lost its > > > title bar. The top bars are the search bar, with the menu bar underneath > > > it. So I have an "X" to close thunderbird with on the search bar, but > > > that's it. The "v" and "^" to maximise and minimise aren't there because > > > the bar they live on isn't there. > > > > > > How do I get my bar back? -) > > > > Firefox has been like that here for some months now. Either ALT-F3 and > > move > > it, if that's what you want, or CRTL-Q and restart it somewhere else. > > If you right click twice near the top edge of the window, then the Plasma > window menu show up. From there you can select to minimise/maximise. Yes, but why has FF shrugged off the standard presentation of a program window? And why is it allowed to get away with it? -- Regards, Peter.
Re: [gentoo-user] Thunderbird oddity
On Sunday 29 September 2024 12:11:13 BST Peter Humphrey wrote: > On Sunday 29 September 2024 10:08:36 BST Wols Lists wrote: > > It's actually been like this a while - but my Thunderbird has lost its > > title bar. The top bars are the search bar, with the menu bar underneath > > it. So I have an "X" to close thunderbird with on the search bar, but > > that's it. The "v" and "^" to maximise and minimise aren't there because > > the bar they live on isn't there. > > > > How do I get my bar back? -) > > Firefox has been like that here for some months now. Either ALT-F3 and move > it, if that's what you want, or CRTL-Q and restart it somewhere else. If you right click twice near the top edge of the window, then the Plasma window menu show up. From there you can select to minimise/maximise. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Thunderbird oddity
On Sunday 29 September 2024 10:08:36 BST Wols Lists wrote: > It's actually been like this a while - but my Thunderbird has lost its > title bar. The top bars are the search bar, with the menu bar underneath > it. So I have an "X" to close thunderbird with on the search bar, but > that's it. The "v" and "^" to maximise and minimise aren't there because > the bar they live on isn't there. > > How do I get my bar back? -) Firefox has been like that here for some months now. Either ALT-F3 and move it, if that's what you want, or CRTL-Q and restart it somewhere else. -- Regards, Peter.
Re: [gentoo-user] Thunderbird oddity
La 29.09.2024 12:08, Wols Lists a scris: It's actually been like this a while - but my Thunderbird has lost its title bar. The top bars are the search bar, with the menu bar underneath it. So I have an "X" to close thunderbird with on the search bar, but that's it. The "v" and "^" to maximise and minimise aren't there because the bar they live on isn't there. How do I get my bar back? -) (The bar is quite happily on the window I'm typing this email in, just not on my main Thunderbird window.) Cheers, Wol Settings -> General -> Window Layout -> Hide system window titlebar
Re: [gentoo-user] Plasma 6 / KDE upgrade weirdo
On Sunday 29 September 2024 10:04:42 BST Wols Lists wrote: > Since I emerged and Plasma got upgraded, my configuration isn't > remembered from the previous state, nor does it get saved ... > > Then I ran dolphin from the command line, and got an error that REALLY > doesn't make sense! > > anthony@thewolery ~/Scans/HP-M477/2024_09_28 $ dolphin . & > [1] 23240 > anthony@thewolery ~/Scans/HP-M477/2024_09_28 $ kf.config.core: Created a > KConfigGroup on an inaccessible config location "/home/gina/.directory" > "Desktop Entry" > > [1]+ Donedolphin . > anthony@thewolery ~/Scans/HP-M477/2024_09_28 $ dolphin . & > [1] 23368 > anthony@thewolery ~/Scans/HP-M477/2024_09_28 $ kf.config.core: Created a > KConfigGroup on an inaccessible config location "/home/gina/.directory" > "Desktop Entry" > > > You can see I've actually run the command line twice, but the weirdo is, > as you can see from the system prompt I'm logged in as "anthony". So why > oh why is plasma looking in my wife's home directory for config info !!! > How does it even KNOW about my wife's account? > > I presume if I fix this, everything else will sort itself out, but this > is just weird. > > Cheers, > Wol It's a guess, your 'Frequently Used' Plasma Places/Directories may contain a previous instance of you accessing /home/gina/.directory to store some scanned documents. Click on the K-menu, at the bottom select 'Places', at the left menu list you'll see 'History' and 'Frequently Used'. If you right click on the right menu list of places/directories, you get an option to forget all or forget the selected directory. Alternative you could grep for "gina" in your ~/.local/share/recently- used.xbel signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
[gentoo-user] Thunderbird oddity
It's actually been like this a while - but my Thunderbird has lost its title bar. The top bars are the search bar, with the menu bar underneath it. So I have an "X" to close thunderbird with on the search bar, but that's it. The "v" and "^" to maximise and minimise aren't there because the bar they live on isn't there. How do I get my bar back? -) (The bar is quite happily on the window I'm typing this email in, just not on my main Thunderbird window.) Cheers, Wol
[gentoo-user] Plasma 6 / KDE upgrade weirdo
Since I emerged and Plasma got upgraded, my configuration isn't remembered from the previous state, nor does it get saved ... Then I ran dolphin from the command line, and got an error that REALLY doesn't make sense! anthony@thewolery ~/Scans/HP-M477/2024_09_28 $ dolphin . & [1] 23240 anthony@thewolery ~/Scans/HP-M477/2024_09_28 $ kf.config.core: Created a KConfigGroup on an inaccessible config location "/home/gina/.directory" "Desktop Entry" [1]+ Donedolphin . anthony@thewolery ~/Scans/HP-M477/2024_09_28 $ dolphin . & [1] 23368 anthony@thewolery ~/Scans/HP-M477/2024_09_28 $ kf.config.core: Created a KConfigGroup on an inaccessible config location "/home/gina/.directory" "Desktop Entry" You can see I've actually run the command line twice, but the weirdo is, as you can see from the system prompt I'm logged in as "anthony". So why oh why is plasma looking in my wife's home directory for config info !!! How does it even KNOW about my wife's account? I presume if I fix this, everything else will sort itself out, but this is just weird. Cheers, Wol
Re: [gentoo-user] Computer system email no not working since gmail change.
Frank Steinmetzger wrote: > Am Thu, Sep 26, 2024 at 05:44:08AM -0500 schrieb Dale: > >>> That said, if you're interested in limiting opportunistic snooping, >>> something >>> like this may help: >>> >>> https://proton.me/mail >> I'll have to check into that more. I'm not sure I could send my system >> emails through that tho. It sounds like it requires encryption end to >> end. I think. >> >> Dale > I would actually try and set up local mail delivery straight to /var/spool > without the detour over a network. We’ve had this topic already, methinks. > You can then add the folder to Thunderbird/Seamonkey, since spool usually is > mbox format, which is also the default in TB. > That was plan B. Basically, I just needed a way for SMART to let me know of issues. Since Grant beat it into submission, maybe Gmail will leave things alone for a while and stop putting locked doors in the way. Thanks for the idea. I was starting to consider it, a lot. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Computer system email no not working since gmail change.
Michael wrote: > On Thursday 26 September 2024 22:11:20 BST Dale wrote: > >> root@Gentoo-1 / # telnet smtp.gmail.com 587 >> Trying 142.251.116.108... >> Trying 2607:f8b0:4023:1000::6c... >> telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Network is unreachable >> root@Gentoo-1 / # >> >> >> Can't connect. Well, that explains a lot. It can't reach anything to >> log into. It looks like it is trying both IPv4 and v6. So, I used >> ping. It works there. > STOP RIGHT THERE! > > You may not have a mail application configuration problem after all (ssmtp/ > msmtp), but you definitely have a network/server connectivity problem. You > need to sort out the network connection first, before you look at your smtp > client configuration. > That's my thinking but everything else works fine. Seamonkey email works just fine. >> root@Gentoo-1 / # ping smtp.gmail.com >> PING smtp.gmail.com (142.250.115.108) 56(84) bytes of data. >> 64 bytes from rq-in-f108.1e100.net (142.250.115.108): icmp_seq=1 ttl=53 >> time=32.1 ms >> 64 bytes from rq-in-f108.1e100.net (142.250.115.108): icmp_seq=2 ttl=53 >> time=45.0 ms >> 64 bytes from rq-in-f108.1e100.net (142.250.115.108): icmp_seq=3 ttl=53 >> time=39.3 ms >> ^C >> --- smtp.gmail.com ping statistics --- >> 3 packets transmitted, 3 received, 0% packet loss, time 1998ms >> rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 32.062/38.776/45.017/5.299 ms >> root@Gentoo-1 / # ping 142.251.116.108 >> PING 142.251.116.108 (142.251.116.108) 56(84) bytes of data. >> 64 bytes from 142.251.116.108: icmp_seq=1 ttl=53 time=30.4 ms >> 64 bytes from 142.251.116.108: icmp_seq=2 ttl=53 time=56.0 ms >> 64 bytes from 142.251.116.108: icmp_seq=3 ttl=53 time=30.6 ms >> ^C >> --- 142.251.116.108 ping statistics --- >> 3 packets transmitted, 3 received, 0% packet loss, time 2000ms >> rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 30.351/38.988/56.049/12.063 ms >> root@Gentoo-1 / # > So you can access the server, but not connect to the port. > > Can you connect to ports 25, or 465? > > Can you connect to 'smtp-relay.gmail.com' instead? > > If you cannot see an open port, then either your network is misconfigured, or > you've annoyed Google enough to block your access to their smtp service. > > >> What silly boo boo did I make this time >> I am connected through a VPN but Seamonkey works fine. I can check and send email there, > Ah! I have found Google logs your IP address and when this changes they may > choose to block your connection to their service. Often it sends you a > message in your backup email address/phone asking you to confirm if the > device > and new IP address you are trying to connect from is you and yours. > > Throwing a VPN in the works may trigger the above security (re)action, when > your client is using an 'App Password' token, as opposed to the full OAUTH2 > exchange. > I have had it send a thing I have to use on my phone. I don't recall giving google my phone number tho. I rarely give my phone number to any website. Heck, except for a couple people, I don't ever answer the phone anyway. My default ring tone is silent. Only half a dozen people have a ring tone. >> That is true but why buy one if you can't run it? LOL This is yet >> another reason I want to switch from Gmail. They nothing but nosy >> anyway. I think it is common knowledge that they scan all emails and >> use the info for various things, including ads, which I block by the way. > Google's modus operandi is arguably predicated on recording your data, your > location, your movements, your purchases, your contacts, your written/spoken > word, your interests, your thoughts, etc. Selling advertisements is a > monetisation mechanism to facilitate the high cost of their operation. They > are not unique in this endeavor, other Big-Tech quasi-monopolies are > performing the same role. The offer of 'free' internet services is the > honeypot used to attract footfall. Yep. Looking at that Proton email thing. It doesn't cost to much for that basic thing above free. I just renewed my Surfshark so want to spread these bills a little apart. I'm mostly just wanting something that works like gmail but doesn't snoop. I got encryption set up, I think anyway. I haven't used it since transferring to new rig. I'm wondering if we should just start from scratch. Either I missed something simple or something is missing somewhere. I'm also wondering of that /var/spool method might be better. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Computer system email no not working since gmail change.
On Friday 27 September 2024 17:28:13 BST Dale wrote: > Grant Edwards wrote: > > On 2024-09-27, Dale wrote: > >>> You do know about the msmtp man page, right? > >> > >> Well, if copying someone's known working config file doesn't work right, > >> I'm not sure a man page is going to help much. > > > > The working configuration I provided didn't have an alias (or aliases) > > command in it. > > You mentioned I needed to add that so I did. I think that also helped, > once we got the spelling right. > > >> That said, I changed the alias line and then got a error about the > >> account info. > > > > What error? > > The error said 'default' was already set. I'm not sure where it was set > but that's what it said. I commented out the line that I pasted in the > config file and then things got better. > > >> I commented it out too. > > > > What was "it"? > > I think that was the default account info. > > >> When I did that, I got this with your test command. > > > > [...] > > > >> Now things may be working better. So, I restarted smartd and guess > >> what, I got emails from smart about my hard drives. I have nine hard > >> drives. I got a email for each one. Can I get a YEPPIE > > > > Great! > > It is great. Also, reset everything else security wise including main > password. It needed doing anyway. I should be safe again. > > Thanks so much. > > Dale > > :-) :-) Good result, although I am confused how you were not able to connect with telnet to the gmail server one moment, but were able to connect thereafter with msmtp. :-/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Computer system email no not working since gmail change.
On Thu, Sep 26, 2024 at 9:43 AM Frank Steinmetzger wrote: > Am Thu, Sep 26, 2024 at 05:44:08AM -0500 schrieb Dale: > > > > That said, if you're interested in limiting opportunistic snooping, > something > > > like this may help: > > > > > > https://proton.me/mail > > > > > > I'll have to check into that more. I'm not sure I could send my system > > emails through that tho. It sounds like it requires encryption end to > > end. I think. > > > > Dale > > I would actually try and set up local mail delivery straight to /var/spool > without the detour over a network. We’ve had this topic already, methinks. > You can then add the folder to Thunderbird/Seamonkey, since spool usually > is > mbox format, which is also the default in TB. > > -- > Grüße | Greetings | Salut | Qapla’ > Please do not share anything from, with or about me on any social network. > > If a snowball is a ball of snow – what, then, is a football? > Exactly. I used to send system email out through gmail, but after periodic breakages in that route due to Google security changes, I realized keeping these emails within my local network was a more reliable, lower hassle alternative for me: postfix/dovecot/mutt. I just use it for system mails, so config was straightforward. No more gmail config hassles, no more Google reading my emails. The one time I’ve been hacked was through gmail, so I’ve also eliminated a security risk. Not the answer to the question asked, so possibly not a useful one, but maybe food for thought. John Blinka
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Computer system email no not working since gmail change.
Grant Edwards wrote: > On 2024-09-27, Dale wrote: > >>> You do know about the msmtp man page, right? >> Well, if copying someone's known working config file doesn't work right, >> I'm not sure a man page is going to help much. > The working configuration I provided didn't have an alias (or aliases) > command in it. You mentioned I needed to add that so I did. I think that also helped, once we got the spelling right. >> That said, I changed the alias line and then got a error about the >> account info. > What error? The error said 'default' was already set. I'm not sure where it was set but that's what it said. I commented out the line that I pasted in the config file and then things got better. >> I commented it out too. > What was "it"? > I think that was the default account info. >> When I did that, I got this with your test command. > [...] > >> Now things may be working better. So, I restarted smartd and guess >> what, I got emails from smart about my hard drives. I have nine hard >> drives. I got a email for each one. Can I get a YEPPIE > Great! It is great. Also, reset everything else security wise including main password. It needed doing anyway. I should be safe again. Thanks so much. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Computer system email no not working since gmail change.
Matt Connell wrote: >> On Wed, 2024-09-25 at 15:43 -0500, Dale wrote: >> No one here has their system set up to use Gmail for system >> emails??? > I wouldn't consider gmail an option for any emails, system or > otherwise. > >> On Thu, 2024-09-26 at 02:28 -0500, Dale wrote: >> If you know a email service that isn't to expensive but is secure, >> not secure enough to block me from doing things I need to do tho, I'm >> open to ideas. I'd like something that is outside the USA if >> possible. > I can happily vouch for Mailfence. I've been a customer for ~7 years > now. They are located in Belgium (strong privacy laws), and they have > great customer support, with real people who understand things like > DKIM. Plus, I can bring my own domain! I pay roughly $3.50 USD per > month. They have a free tier plan to try it out and see if it will > work out for you. > > Would Mailfence, or Proton if you know, be a basic drop in replacement for Gmail? Basically, I don't really need end to end encryption. I just want a provider that doesn't snoop and will tell those who want to snoop to go pound sand. Some countries are better at that than others. Both Mailfence and Proton seem to cost about the same, for the paid plans anyway. I'd start with a free one just to test. If things work fairly well, go to a paid plan. Maybe have my own domain thing that I can move if needed. Honestly tho, I'd want this to be my last move email wise. Thanks for any info you can provide. I really want to tackle this and switch. Dale :-) :-)
[gentoo-user] Re: Computer system email no not working since gmail change.
On 2024-09-27, Dale wrote: >> You do know about the msmtp man page, right? > > Well, if copying someone's known working config file doesn't work right, > I'm not sure a man page is going to help much. The working configuration I provided didn't have an alias (or aliases) command in it. > That said, I changed the alias line and then got a error about the > account info. What error? > I commented it out too. What was "it"? > When I did that, I got this with your test command. [...] > Now things may be working better. So, I restarted smartd and guess > what, I got emails from smart about my hard drives. I have nine hard > drives. I got a email for each one. Can I get a YEPPIE Great!
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Computer system email no not working since gmail change.
Grant Edwards wrote: > On 2024-09-27, Dale wrote: > >> OK. I added that line to the config file. Then it gives me this error. >> >> >> root@Gentoo-1 / # echo foo | msmtp -v bogus >> msmtp: /etc/msmtprc: line 5: unknown command alias >> root@Gentoo-1 / # > Sorry, my bad. It's aliases not alias: > > $ man msmtp | grep alias > Note that hdrs is accepted as an alias for headers to > be compatible > --aliases=[file] > Set or unset an aliases file. See the aliases command. >aliases [file] > Replace local recipients with addresses in the aliases file. > The aliases > cal address is not found in the aliases file. If no default > alias is found, > Note that alias expansion only affects the mail envelope. The > To and Cc head‐ > An empty argument to the aliases command disables the > replacement of local ># Example aliases file > > You do know about the msmtp man page, right? > Well, if copying someone's known working config file doesn't work right, I'm not sure a man page is going to help much. That said, I changed the alias line and then got a error about the account info. I commented it out too. When I did that, I got this with your test command. root@Gentoo-1 / # echo foo | msmtp -v bogus loaded system configuration file /etc/msmtprc ignoring user configuration file /root/.msmtprc: No such file or directory falling back to default account using account default from /etc/msmtprc host = smtp.gmail.com port = 465 source ip = (not set) proxy host = (not set) proxy port = 0 socket = (not set) timeout = off protocol = smtp domain = localhost auth = choose user = rdalek1967gmail.com password = * passwordeval = (not set) ntlmdomain = (not set) tls = on tls_starttls = off tls_trust_file = system tls_crl_file = (not set) tls_fingerprint = (not set) tls_key_file = (not set) tls_cert_file = (not set) tls_certcheck = off tls_min_dh_prime_bits = (not set) tls_priorities = (not set) tls_host_override = (not set) auto_from = off maildomain = gmail.org from = rdalek1967gmail.com from_full_name = (not set) allow_from_override = on set_from_header = auto set_date_header = auto remove_bcc_headers = on undisclosed_recipients = off dsn_notify = (not set) dsn_return = (not set) logfile = (not set) logfile_time_format = (not set) syslog = LOG_USER aliases = /etc/mail/aliases reading recipients from the command line TLS session parameters: (TLS1.3)-(ECDHE-X25519)-(ECDSA-SECP256R1-SHA256)-(AES-256-GCM) TLS certificate information: Subject: CN=smtp.gmail.com Issuer: C=US,O=Google Trust Services,CN=WR2 Validity: Activation time: Mon 26 Aug 2024 02:12:09 AM CDT Expiration time: Mon 18 Nov 2024 01:12:08 AM CST Fingerprints: SHA256: 01:AF:90:6E:FC:06:5C:B5:5D:B9:55:AB:27:07:B0:E7:8C:4F:EA:46:70:67:86:A9:E0:F1:BB:F7:5A:2E:1B:64 SHA1 (deprecated): F2:B7:9C:3C:4C:FD:57:31:37:BB:8D:F6:DD:F7:FB:A2:D7:09:B2:BD <-- 220 smtp.gmail.com ESMTP 46e09a7af769-714fb6dfaafsm583235a34.76 - gsmtp --> EHLO localhost <-- 250-smtp.gmail.com at your service, [45.203.21.14] <-- 250-SIZE 35882577 <-- 250-8BITMIME <-- 250-AUTH LOGIN PLAIN XOAUTH2 PLAIN-CLIENTTOKEN OAUTHBEARER XOAUTH <-- 250-ENHANCEDSTATUSCODES <-- 250-PIPELINING <-- 250-CHUNKING <-- 250 SMTPUTF8 --> AUTH PLAIN AHJkYWxlazE5NjdAZ21haWwuY29tAGZjcGQgaGJqbSBmZ2ZnIGpscW0= <-- 235 2.7.0 Accepted --> MAIL FROM:gmail.com> --> RCPT TO: --> DATA <-- 250 2.1.0 OK 46e09a7af769-714fb6dfaafsm583235a34.76 - gsmtp <-- 553-5.1.3 The recipient address is not a valid RFC 5321 address. For <-- 553-5.1.3 more information, go to <-- 553-5.1.3 https://support.google.com/a/answer/3221692 and review RFC 5321 <-- 553 5.1.3 specifications. 46e09a7af769-714fb6dfaafsm583235a34.76 - gsmtp msmtp: recipient address bogus not accepted by the server msmtp: server message: 553-5.1.3 The recipient address is not a valid RFC 5321 address. For msmtp: server message: 553-5.1.3 more information, go to msmtp: server message: 553-5.1.3 https://support.google.com/a/answer/3221692 and review RFC 5321 msmtp: server message: 553 5.1.3 specifications. 46e09a7af769-714fb6dfaafsm583235a34.76 - gsmtp msmtp: could not send mail (account default from /etc/msmtprc) root@Gentoo-1 / # Now things may be working better. So, I restarted smartd and guess what, I got emails from smart about my hard drives. I have nine hard drives. I got a email for each one. Can I get a YEPPIE I think the original problem was having the account line. I got a error about default already being set with your test command, not sure where that was and it didn't say. So, I commented out the account line and that is when it started working. So, it works again. Now if I change email providers, I get to do this again. Hopefully changing some bits will make it work. Thanks for the help. We beat it into submission. ROFL Dale :-) :-) P
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Computer system email no not working since gmail change.
Michael wrote: > On Friday 27 September 2024 13:11:46 BST Dale wrote: >> Michael wrote: >>> You may not have a mail application configuration problem after all >>> (ssmtp/ >>> msmtp), but you definitely have a network/server connectivity problem. >>> You >>> need to sort out the network connection first, before you look at your >>> smtp >>> client configuration. >> That's my thinking but everything else works fine. Seamonkey email >> works just fine. > Is your telnet, ssmtp, msmtp routing going through the same VPN as your > Seamonkey? I never got around to setting up a tunnel thing so all traffic, except to my local NAS box, goes through the VPN. I kinda like everything going through the VPN anyway. ;-) Dale :-) :-) P. S. Gotta go mow about 4 or 5 acres of grass. They have a large mower at least.
[gentoo-user] Re: Computer system email no not working since gmail change.
On 2024-09-27, Dale wrote: > OK. I added that line to the config file. Then it gives me this error. > > > root@Gentoo-1 / # echo foo | msmtp -v bogus > msmtp: /etc/msmtprc: line 5: unknown command alias > root@Gentoo-1 / # Sorry, my bad. It's aliases not alias: $ man msmtp | grep alias Note that hdrs is accepted as an alias for headers to be compatible --aliases=[file] Set or unset an aliases file. See the aliases command. aliases [file] Replace local recipients with addresses in the aliases file. The aliases cal address is not found in the aliases file. If no default alias is found, Note that alias expansion only affects the mail envelope. The To and Cc head‐ An empty argument to the aliases command disables the replacement of local # Example aliases file You do know about the msmtp man page, right?
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Computer system email no not working since gmail change.
Grant Edwards wrote: > On 2024-09-27, Dale wrote: > Sep 26 19:04:26 Gentoo-1 smartd[18737]: Executing test of to root ... Sep 26 19:04:36 Gentoo-1 msmtp[18815]: host=smtp.gmail.com tls=on auth=off from=rdalek1967gmail.com recipients=root errormsg='the server sent an empty reply' exitcode=EX_PROTOCOL >>> According to that message, the msmtp auth option is off. It needs to >>> be on. >> This is what I copied from yours, with obvious bits changed. I'll put >> "noneya" in those, so you know that isn't the real info. >> >> syslog LOG_MAIL >> >> account default >> maildomain gmail.org >> syslog on >> from rdalek1967gmail.com >> host smtp.gmail.com >> port 465 >> tls on >> tls_certcheck off >> tls_starttls off >> auth on >> user rdalek1...@gmail.com >> password "noneya" # That is the 16 character thing with spaces in it. > That's not the config that msmtp is using. See in the log where it > says "auth=off"? It should say "auth=on". And I think it's also > using the wrong port number (or you should turn tls_startls off). > > Here's what my log looks like: > > Sep 26 15:57:47 aleph msmtp[21363]: host=smtp.gmail.com tls=on auth=on > user=grant.b.edwa...@gmail.com from=grant.b.edwa...@gmail.com > recipients=@.com mailsize=317 smtpstatus=250 smtpmsg='250 > 2.0.0 OK 1727384267 e9e14a558f8ab-3a344d605d5sm1326875ab.7 - gsmtp' > exitcode=EX_OK > Well, that's where I put it. I commented out all the other stuff and pasted yours in, changed the needed bits and then tested it. >> I'm by no means a expert on this but I see 'auth on' in there. I see >> what you talking about in the error to tho. As I mentioned in other >> reply, I think something else is amiss somewhere. If that config works >> with gmail for you, it should work here. > msmtp is not using the configuration you showed above. > >> On the root thing, I have a alias set up in some file that tells it that >> root is my gmail address. It worked before but maybe not now. File is >> here: /etc/mail/aliases It has this info about root being my gmail >> address. > Msmtp doesn't read an alias file by default. You need to add an alias > command to the msmtp config: > > alias /etc/mail/aliases OK. I added that line to the config file. Then it gives me this error. root@Gentoo-1 / # echo foo | msmtp -v bogus msmtp: /etc/msmtprc: line 5: unknown command alias root@Gentoo-1 / # > > Then run msmtp from the command line like this so you can see all the > settings and the messages exchanged. Pay particular attention to > where it's reading the configuration from, port number, and > tls_starttls. Also look to see where it's reading aliases from. > > $ echo foo | msmtp -v bogus > > msmtp: recipient address bogus not accepted by the server > msmtp: server message: 553-5.1.3 The recipient address is not a > valid RFC 5321 address. For > msmtp: server message: 553-5.1.3 more information, go to > msmtp: server message: 553-5.1.3 > https://support.google.com/a/answer/3221692 and review RFC 5321 > msmtp: server message: 553 5.1.3 specifications. > 8926c6da1cb9f-4df9f55sm483180173.166 - gsmtp > msmtp: could not send mail (account default from /etc/msmtprc) > loaded system configuration file /etc/msmtprc > ignoring user configuration file /home/grante/.msmtprc: No such file or > directory > falling back to default account > *** using account default from /etc/msmtprc > host = smtp.gmail.com > *** port = 465 > source ip = (not set) > proxy host = (not set) > proxy port = 0 > socket = (not set) > timeout = off > protocol = smtp > domain = localhost > *** auth = choose > user = grant.b.edwa...@gmail.com > password = * > passwordeval = (not set) > ntlmdomain = (not set) > *** tls = on > *** tls_starttls = off > tls_trust_file = system > tls_crl_file = (not set) > tls_fingerprint = (not set) > tls_key_file = (not set) > tls_cert_file = (not set) > tls_certcheck = off > tls_min_dh_prime_bits = (not set) > tls_priorities = (not set) > tls_host_override = (not set) > auto_from = off > maildomain = gmail.org > from = grant.b.edwa...@gmail.com > from_full_name = (not set) > allow_from_override = on > set_from_header = auto > set_date_header = auto > remove_bcc_headers = on > undisclosed_recipients = off > dsn_notify = (not set) > dsn_return = (not set) > logfile = (not set) > logfile_time_format = (not set) > syslog = LOG_MAIL > *** aliases = (not set) > reading recipients from the command line > TLS session parameters: > (TLS1.3)-(ECDHE-X25519)-(ECDSA-SECP256R1-SHA256)-(AES-256-GCM) > TLS certificate information: > Subject: > CN=smtp.gmail.com > Issuer: > C=US,O=Google Trust Services,CN=WR2 > Validity: > Activation time: Mon 26 Aug 2024 02:12:09 AM CDT
[gentoo-user] Re: Computer system email no not working since gmail change.
On 2024-09-27, Dale wrote: >>> Sep 26 19:04:26 Gentoo-1 smartd[18737]: Executing test of to root ... >>> Sep 26 19:04:36 Gentoo-1 msmtp[18815]: host=smtp.gmail.com tls=on >>> auth=off from=rdalek1967gmail.com recipients=root errormsg='the >>> server sent an empty reply' exitcode=EX_PROTOCOL >> According to that message, the msmtp auth option is off. It needs to >> be on. > This is what I copied from yours, with obvious bits changed. I'll put > "noneya" in those, so you know that isn't the real info. > > syslog LOG_MAIL > > account default > maildomain gmail.org > syslog on > from rdalek1967gmail.com > host smtp.gmail.com > port 465 > tls on > tls_certcheck off > tls_starttls off > auth on > user rdalek1...@gmail.com > password "noneya" # That is the 16 character thing with spaces in it. That's not the config that msmtp is using. See in the log where it says "auth=off"? It should say "auth=on". And I think it's also using the wrong port number (or you should turn tls_startls off). Here's what my log looks like: Sep 26 15:57:47 aleph msmtp[21363]: host=smtp.gmail.com tls=on auth=on user=grant.b.edwa...@gmail.com from=grant.b.edwa...@gmail.com recipients=@.com mailsize=317 smtpstatus=250 smtpmsg='250 2.0.0 OK 1727384267 e9e14a558f8ab-3a344d605d5sm1326875ab.7 - gsmtp' exitcode=EX_OK > I'm by no means a expert on this but I see 'auth on' in there. I see > what you talking about in the error to tho. As I mentioned in other > reply, I think something else is amiss somewhere. If that config works > with gmail for you, it should work here. msmtp is not using the configuration you showed above. > On the root thing, I have a alias set up in some file that tells it that > root is my gmail address. It worked before but maybe not now. File is > here: /etc/mail/aliases It has this info about root being my gmail > address. Msmtp doesn't read an alias file by default. You need to add an alias command to the msmtp config: alias /etc/mail/aliases Then run msmtp from the command line like this so you can see all the settings and the messages exchanged. Pay particular attention to where it's reading the configuration from, port number, and tls_starttls. Also look to see where it's reading aliases from. $ echo foo | msmtp -v bogus msmtp: recipient address bogus not accepted by the server msmtp: server message: 553-5.1.3 The recipient address is not a valid RFC 5321 address. For msmtp: server message: 553-5.1.3 more information, go to msmtp: server message: 553-5.1.3 https://support.google.com/a/answer/3221692 and review RFC 5321 msmtp: server message: 553 5.1.3 specifications. 8926c6da1cb9f-4df9f55sm483180173.166 - gsmtp msmtp: could not send mail (account default from /etc/msmtprc) loaded system configuration file /etc/msmtprc ignoring user configuration file /home/grante/.msmtprc: No such file or directory falling back to default account *** using account default from /etc/msmtprc host = smtp.gmail.com *** port = 465 source ip = (not set) proxy host = (not set) proxy port = 0 socket = (not set) timeout = off protocol = smtp domain = localhost *** auth = choose user = grant.b.edwa...@gmail.com password = * passwordeval = (not set) ntlmdomain = (not set) *** tls = on *** tls_starttls = off tls_trust_file = system tls_crl_file = (not set) tls_fingerprint = (not set) tls_key_file = (not set) tls_cert_file = (not set) tls_certcheck = off tls_min_dh_prime_bits = (not set) tls_priorities = (not set) tls_host_override = (not set) auto_from = off maildomain = gmail.org from = grant.b.edwa...@gmail.com from_full_name = (not set) allow_from_override = on set_from_header = auto set_date_header = auto remove_bcc_headers = on undisclosed_recipients = off dsn_notify = (not set) dsn_return = (not set) logfile = (not set) logfile_time_format = (not set) syslog = LOG_MAIL *** aliases = (not set) reading recipients from the command line TLS session parameters: (TLS1.3)-(ECDHE-X25519)-(ECDSA-SECP256R1-SHA256)-(AES-256-GCM) TLS certificate information: Subject: CN=smtp.gmail.com Issuer: C=US,O=Google Trust Services,CN=WR2 Validity: Activation time: Mon 26 Aug 2024 02:12:09 AM CDT Expiration time: Mon 18 Nov 2024 01:12:08 AM CST Fingerprints: SHA256: 01:AF:90:6E:FC:06:5C:B5:5D:B9:55:AB:27:07:B0:E7:8C:4F:EA:46:70:67:86:A9:E0:F1:BB:F7:5A:2E:1B:64 SHA1 (deprecated): F2:B7:9C:3C:4C:FD:57:31:37:BB:8D:F6:DD:F7:FB:A2:D7:09:B2:BD <-- 220 smtp.gmail.com ESMTP 8926c6da1cb9f-4df9f55sm483180173.166 - gsmtp --> EHLO localhost <-- 250-smtp.gmail.com at your service, [24.152.157.105] <-- 250-SIZE 35882577 <-- 250-8BITMIME <-- 250-AUTH LOGIN PLAIN XOAUTH2 PLAIN-CLIENTTOKE
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Computer system email no not working since gmail change.
On Friday 27 September 2024 13:11:46 BST Dale wrote: > Michael wrote: > > You may not have a mail application configuration problem after all > > (ssmtp/ > > msmtp), but you definitely have a network/server connectivity problem. > > You > > need to sort out the network connection first, before you look at your > > smtp > > client configuration. > > That's my thinking but everything else works fine. Seamonkey email > works just fine. Is your telnet, ssmtp, msmtp routing going through the same VPN as your Seamonkey? signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Computer system email no not working since gmail change.
On Thursday 26 September 2024 22:11:20 BST Dale wrote: > root@Gentoo-1 / # telnet smtp.gmail.com 587 > Trying 142.251.116.108... > Trying 2607:f8b0:4023:1000::6c... > telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Network is unreachable > root@Gentoo-1 / # > > > Can't connect. Well, that explains a lot. It can't reach anything to > log into. It looks like it is trying both IPv4 and v6. So, I used > ping. It works there. STOP RIGHT THERE! You may not have a mail application configuration problem after all (ssmtp/ msmtp), but you definitely have a network/server connectivity problem. You need to sort out the network connection first, before you look at your smtp client configuration. > root@Gentoo-1 / # ping smtp.gmail.com > PING smtp.gmail.com (142.250.115.108) 56(84) bytes of data. > 64 bytes from rq-in-f108.1e100.net (142.250.115.108): icmp_seq=1 ttl=53 > time=32.1 ms > 64 bytes from rq-in-f108.1e100.net (142.250.115.108): icmp_seq=2 ttl=53 > time=45.0 ms > 64 bytes from rq-in-f108.1e100.net (142.250.115.108): icmp_seq=3 ttl=53 > time=39.3 ms > ^C > --- smtp.gmail.com ping statistics --- > 3 packets transmitted, 3 received, 0% packet loss, time 1998ms > rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 32.062/38.776/45.017/5.299 ms > root@Gentoo-1 / # ping 142.251.116.108 > PING 142.251.116.108 (142.251.116.108) 56(84) bytes of data. > 64 bytes from 142.251.116.108: icmp_seq=1 ttl=53 time=30.4 ms > 64 bytes from 142.251.116.108: icmp_seq=2 ttl=53 time=56.0 ms > 64 bytes from 142.251.116.108: icmp_seq=3 ttl=53 time=30.6 ms > ^C > --- 142.251.116.108 ping statistics --- > 3 packets transmitted, 3 received, 0% packet loss, time 2000ms > rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 30.351/38.988/56.049/12.063 ms > root@Gentoo-1 / # So you can access the server, but not connect to the port. Can you connect to ports 25, or 465? Can you connect to 'smtp-relay.gmail.com' instead? If you cannot see an open port, then either your network is misconfigured, or you've annoyed Google enough to block your access to their smtp service. > What silly boo boo did I make this time > > >> I am connected through a VPN but Seamonkey works fine. I can check and > >> send email there, Ah! I have found Google logs your IP address and when this changes they may choose to block your connection to their service. Often it sends you a message in your backup email address/phone asking you to confirm if the device and new IP address you are trying to connect from is you and yours. Throwing a VPN in the works may trigger the above security (re)action, when your client is using an 'App Password' token, as opposed to the full OAUTH2 exchange. > That is true but why buy one if you can't run it? LOL This is yet > another reason I want to switch from Gmail. They nothing but nosy > anyway. I think it is common knowledge that they scan all emails and > use the info for various things, including ads, which I block by the way. Google's modus operandi is arguably predicated on recording your data, your location, your movements, your purchases, your contacts, your written/spoken word, your interests, your thoughts, etc. Selling advertisements is a monetisation mechanism to facilitate the high cost of their operation. They are not unique in this endeavor, other Big-Tech quasi-monopolies are performing the same role. The offer of 'free' internet services is the honeypot used to attract footfall. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Computer system email no not working since gmail change.
Grant Edwards wrote: > On 2024-09-27, Dale wrote: > >> It says port 465 but it is using Oauth2 if that matters. > It doesn't. > >> I'll admit, the last time I got this working, I followed a guide and >> it just worked. Once it worked, I left it alone. I was scared that >> if I touched it, it would stop working. LOL >> >> I changed the config to port 465 and it still failed with this. >> >> >> Sep 26 19:04:26 Gentoo-1 smartd[18737]: Executing test of to root ... >> Sep 26 19:04:36 Gentoo-1 msmtp[18815]: host=smtp.gmail.com tls=on >> auth=off from=rdalek1967gmail.com recipients=root errormsg='the >> server sent an empty reply' exitcode=EX_PROTOCOL > According to that message, the msmtp auth option is off. It needs to > be on. > > Look at the working configuraiton I posted. > > Use that configuration with your email address and app password. > > It also looks like smartd is trying to send mail to the recipient > "root". That's not a valid destination when sending via most smtp > servers. You need to be sending to a recipient that looks like > "user@domain". > > What port number are you trying to use? > > Please re-read what I wrote about port numbers and starttls. If > you're using port 465, you need to turn tls_starttls OFF. If you're > using port 587, tls_starttls needs to be ON. That's the default, but I > recommend turning it on explicitly. > > My advice: don't use smartd to try to get msmtp working. Use > something easier to work with. The usual way to do it is using > something like mailx. The Arch wiki page is an excellent resource: > > https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Msmtp > > It shows how to test msmtp using mailx. > > It also addresses the error you're seeing explicitly: > >8.2 Server sent empty reply > >If you get a "server sent empty reply" error, this probably means >the mail server does not support STARTTLS over port 587, but >requires TLS over port 465. > > Note that some systems will ignore a message without a Message-Id: > header, so the example from the Arch page that cats a message from a > file to msmtp might not work reliably. > > > > This is what I copied from yours, with obvious bits changed. I'll put "noneya" in those, so you know that isn't the real info. syslog LOG_MAIL account default maildomain gmail.org syslog on from rdalek1967gmail.com host smtp.gmail.com port 465 tls on tls_certcheck off tls_starttls off auth on user rdalek1...@gmail.com password "noneya" # That is the 16 character thing with spaces in it. I included quotes but I think you had them there too. I'm by no means a expert on this but I see 'auth on' in there. I see what you talking about in the error to tho. As I mentioned in other reply, I think something else is amiss somewhere. If that config works with gmail for you, it should work here. On the root thing, I have a alias set up in some file that tells it that root is my gmail address. It worked before but maybe not now. File is here: /etc/mail/aliases It has this info about root being my gmail address. # Well-known aliases -- these should be filled in! root: rdalek1...@gmail.com My understanding, anything sent to root instead goes to my gmail account. I could be wrong on that. o_O Is that what you have in yours? If it is, it should work here. If not, my copy and paste is broken. LOL That aliases file make sense? Dale :-) :-)
[gentoo-user] Re: Computer system email no not working since gmail change.
On 2024-09-27, Dale wrote: > It says port 465 but it is using Oauth2 if that matters. It doesn't. > I'll admit, the last time I got this working, I followed a guide and > it just worked. Once it worked, I left it alone. I was scared that > if I touched it, it would stop working. LOL > > I changed the config to port 465 and it still failed with this. > > > Sep 26 19:04:26 Gentoo-1 smartd[18737]: Executing test of to root ... > Sep 26 19:04:36 Gentoo-1 msmtp[18815]: host=smtp.gmail.com tls=on > auth=off from=rdalek1967gmail.com recipients=root errormsg='the > server sent an empty reply' exitcode=EX_PROTOCOL According to that message, the msmtp auth option is off. It needs to be on. Look at the working configuraiton I posted. Use that configuration with your email address and app password. It also looks like smartd is trying to send mail to the recipient "root". That's not a valid destination when sending via most smtp servers. You need to be sending to a recipient that looks like "user@domain". What port number are you trying to use? Please re-read what I wrote about port numbers and starttls. If you're using port 465, you need to turn tls_starttls OFF. If you're using port 587, tls_starttls needs to be ON. That's the default, but I recommend turning it on explicitly. My advice: don't use smartd to try to get msmtp working. Use something easier to work with. The usual way to do it is using something like mailx. The Arch wiki page is an excellent resource: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Msmtp It shows how to test msmtp using mailx. It also addresses the error you're seeing explicitly: 8.2 Server sent empty reply If you get a "server sent empty reply" error, this probably means the mail server does not support STARTTLS over port 587, but requires TLS over port 465. Note that some systems will ignore a message without a Message-Id: header, so the example from the Arch page that cats a message from a file to msmtp might not work reliably.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Computer system email no not working since gmail change.
Grant Edwards wrote: > On 2024-09-26, Grant Edwards wrote: > >> I just did a quick test, and sending via smtp.gmail.com using an app >> password worked fine from mutt. I don't have msmtp set up at the >> moment. > Ijust set up msmtp and it works too. Below is the msmtp config, > > * If you want, replace "account gmail" with "account default", then >you don't have to supply the "-a gmail" option to msmtp. > > * replace (in two places) usern...@gmail.com with your email address. > > * replace with your app password. > > ---8<- > syslog LOG_MAIL > > account gmail > maildomain gmail.org > syslog on > from gmailusern...@gmail.com > host smtp.gmail.com > port 465 > tls on > tls_certcheck off > tls_starttls off > auth on > user gmailusern...@gmail.com > password " " > ---8<- > > > Sorry. Somehow I missed this reply. I copy and pasted yours and changed the needed bits. I put spaces in the password like you showed. I assume it needs those. I also changed gmail to default for account. When I start smartd, it adds this to messages. Sep 26 19:13:47 Gentoo-1 smartd[21480]: Executing test of to root ... Sep 26 19:13:47 Gentoo-1 smartd[21480]: Test of to root produced unexpected output (65 bytes) to STDOUT/STDERR: Sep 26 19:13:47 Gentoo-1 smartd[21480]: mail: cannot send message: Process exited with a non-zero status Sep 26 19:13:47 Gentoo-1 smartd[21480]: Test of to root: failed (32-bit/8-bit exit status: 256/1) Based on what you posted that works for you, I think there may be a problem elsewhere. Maybe I have something somewhere else set wrong and don't know it, maybe even a silly typo. If that config you posted works for you, I see no reason it shouldn't work here unless you pay for something extra. Other than that, I suspect smtp is set up right but something else isn't. Should we look elsewhere? Any idea where? Could it be smart itself that is set up wrong? Sending wrong thing to smtp? Thanks for the help. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] --depclean and openrc [Was: Wayland! Beware of!]
On Tue, Sep 24, 2024, 07:41 Arsen Arsenović wrote: > I do wonder if we should keep s6, runit and daemontools in that virutal > though, given that we can't boot them. Perhaps they'd be fine behind a > USE flag. I'll propose that. > So, this is a case where you definitely always need one of the dependencies, and sometimes you might want two, but the reason you might want the second one would not be to fulfill the purpose represented by the virtual. It sounds to me like a set of local USE flags would be perfect, with a REQUIRED_USE enforcing exactly-one-of to choose the dependency. The USE flag controls the choice, and if you pull in an alternative service manager for an unrelated reason, it doesn't change the USE flag, so it doesn't change the dependency which satisfies the virtual. The USE-disabled service managers are simply ignored. Would that work? Or is that exactly what you're planning to propose? I don't think using just one USE flag would be as safe, unless this is only an issue for daemontools. Tons of stuff tries to pull in systemd, but blockers generally prevent you from making a mess that way. -MD >
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Computer system email no not working since gmail change.
Grant Edwards wrote: > On 2024-09-26, Dale wrote: > >> root@Gentoo-1 / # telnet smtp.gmail.com 587 >> Trying 142.251.116.108... >> Trying 2607:f8b0:4023:1000::6c... >> telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Network is unreachable >> root@Gentoo-1 / # >> >> Can't connect. Well, that explains a lot. It can't reach anything to >> log into. It looks like it is trying both IPv4 and v6. So, I used >> ping. It works there. >> >> root@Gentoo-1 / # ping smtp.gmail.com >> PING smtp.gmail.com (142.250.115.108) 56(84) bytes of data. >> 64 bytes from rq-in-f108.1e100.net (142.250.115.108): icmp_seq=1 ttl=53 > Those commands are using two different IP addresses. > > It's not uncommon that DNS resolvers for heavily used services rotate > through a pool of addresses, but for testing purposes you should pick > a single IP address. > I am connected through a VPN but Seamonkey works fine. I can check and send email there, >>> Do you mean can send email via Gmail's SMTP server using Seamonkey? >>> >>> How are the SMTP server settings configured in Seamonkey? >>> >>> Is it using Oauth2 or an app password? >> I checked, It is using Oauth2. I had to change it a good while back >> but I think SMART could still send emails for a while after that. > Is it using the same port number as msmtp? > It says port 465 but it is using Oauth2 if that matters. I'll admit, the last time I got this working, I followed a guide and it just worked. Once it worked, I left it alone. I was scared that if I touched it, it would stop working. LOL I changed the config to port 465 and it still failed with this. Sep 26 19:04:26 Gentoo-1 smartd[18737]: Executing test of to root ... Sep 26 19:04:36 Gentoo-1 msmtp[18815]: host=smtp.gmail.com tls=on auth=off from=rdalek1967gmail.com recipients=root errormsg='the server sent an empty reply' exitcode=EX_PROTOCOL Sep 26 19:04:36 Gentoo-1 smartd[18737]: Test of to root produced unexpected output (65 bytes) to STDOUT/STDERR: Sep 26 19:04:36 Gentoo-1 smartd[18737]: mail: cannot send message: Process exited with a non-zero status Sep 26 19:04:36 Gentoo-1 smartd[18737]: Test of to root: failed (32-bit/8-bit exit status: 256/1) It repeated that several times before stopping. >>> I just did a quick test, and sending via smtp.gmail.com using an app >>> password worked fine from mutt. I don't have msmtp set up at the >>> moment. >> That is true but why buy one if you can't run it? LOL This is yet >> another reason I want to switch from Gmail. They nothing but nosy >> anyway. I think it is common knowledge that they scan all emails and >> use the info for various things, including ads, which I block by the >> way. > There's nothing wrong with Gmail. The app password feature works > exactly as documented, and is definitely the right way to provide > authentication for "dumb" programs that don't know how to do OAUTH2. > > > I still don't like all the snooping they do. Basically, I just don't trust Google, with a lot of things. Dale :-) :-)
[gentoo-user] Re: Computer system email no not working since gmail change.
On 2024-09-26, Dale wrote: > I removed ssmtp and installed msmtp. I think I got the config set up > but it is different so I may not have it right. It doesn't work tho. > From messages. > > > Sep 26 10:03:33 Gentoo-1 smartd[27728]: Executing test of to root ... > Sep 26 10:05:40 Gentoo-1 msmtp[30861]: host=smtp.gmail.com tls=on > auth=off from=rdalek1967gmail.com recipients=root errormsg='cannot > connect to smtp.gmail.com, port 587: Connection timed out' > exitcode=EX_TEMPFAIL It looks like your network is broken. Try this: $ telnet smtp.gmail.com 587 Trying 209.85.145.109... Connected to smtp.gmail.com. Escape character is '^]'. 220 smtp.gmail.com ESMTP 8926c6da1cb9f-4d60978sm58959173.69 - gsmtp Note: Port 587 is for plaintext connection and then shifting into TLS mode with the starttls command. When configuring msmtp: port 587 tls on tls-starttls on or port 465 tls on tls-starttls off Port 465 starts using TLS immediately $ openssl s_client -connect smtp.gmail.com:465 CONNECTED(0003) depth=2 C = US, O = Google Trust Services LLC, CN = GTS Root R1 verify return:1 depth=1 C = US, O = Google Trust Services, CN = WR2 verify return:1 depth=0 CN = smtp.gmail.com verify return:1 --- Certificate chain 0 s:CN = smtp.gmail.com i:C = US, O = Google Trust Services, CN = WR2 a:PKEY: id-ecPublicKey, 256 (bit); sigalg: RSA-SHA256 v:NotBefore: Aug 26 07:12:09 2024 GMT; NotAfter: Nov 18 07:12:08 2024 GMT [...] --- read R BLOCK 220 smtp.gmail.com ESMTP e9e14a558f8ab-3a344d9250esm496675ab.41 - gsmtp
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Computer system email no not working since gmail change.
Grant Edwards wrote: > On 2024-09-26, Dale wrote: >> Grant Edwards wrote: >> >>> It looks like your network is broken. Try this: >>> >>> $ telnet smtp.gmail.com 587 >>> Trying 209.85.145.109... >>> Connected to smtp.gmail.com. >>> Escape character is '^]'. >>> 220 smtp.gmail.com ESMTP 8926c6da1cb9f-4d60978sm58959173.69 - gsmtp >>> >>> Note: Port 587 is for plaintext connection and then shifting into TLS >>> mode with the starttls command. When configuring msmtp: >>> >>> port 587 >>> tls on >>> tls-starttls on >>> or >>> port 465 >>> tls on >>> tls-starttls off >>> >>> Port 465 starts using TLS immediately >>> >>> [...] >> Which package do I need for that telnet? I see a few packages with that >> name. > Any of them should work. I use net-misc/netkit-telnetd. It will also > install a telnet daemon, but it won't enbale it I have -1 in make.conf so whatever I install will be depcleaned later. Anyway, I installed the one you mentioned and got this. root@Gentoo-1 / # telnet smtp.gmail.com 587 Trying 142.251.116.108... Trying 2607:f8b0:4023:1000::6c... telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Network is unreachable root@Gentoo-1 / # Can't connect. Well, that explains a lot. It can't reach anything to log into. It looks like it is trying both IPv4 and v6. So, I used ping. It works there. root@Gentoo-1 / # ping smtp.gmail.com PING smtp.gmail.com (142.250.115.108) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from rq-in-f108.1e100.net (142.250.115.108): icmp_seq=1 ttl=53 time=32.1 ms 64 bytes from rq-in-f108.1e100.net (142.250.115.108): icmp_seq=2 ttl=53 time=45.0 ms 64 bytes from rq-in-f108.1e100.net (142.250.115.108): icmp_seq=3 ttl=53 time=39.3 ms ^C --- smtp.gmail.com ping statistics --- 3 packets transmitted, 3 received, 0% packet loss, time 1998ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 32.062/38.776/45.017/5.299 ms root@Gentoo-1 / # ping 142.251.116.108 PING 142.251.116.108 (142.251.116.108) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from 142.251.116.108: icmp_seq=1 ttl=53 time=30.4 ms 64 bytes from 142.251.116.108: icmp_seq=2 ttl=53 time=56.0 ms 64 bytes from 142.251.116.108: icmp_seq=3 ttl=53 time=30.6 ms ^C --- 142.251.116.108 ping statistics --- 3 packets transmitted, 3 received, 0% packet loss, time 2000ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 30.351/38.988/56.049/12.063 ms root@Gentoo-1 / # What silly boo boo did I make this time >> I am connected through a VPN but Seamonkey works fine. I can check and >> send email there, > Do you mean can send email via Gmail's SMTP server using Seamonkey? > > How are the SMTP server settings configured in Seamonkey? > > Is it using Oauth2 or an app password? I checked, It is using Oauth2. I had to change it a good while back but I think SMART could still send emails for a while after that. Seamonkey wouldn't fetch or send emails tho until I changed to the Oauth thing. Also, it stopped autofetching emails with that too. I used to have it set to check for new messages like every 20 minutes. I have to manually check since the change. Annoying as heck. The first time I used the app password was when I was following guides on how to set up email for SMART when I realized it wasn't working on my new rig. I don't use it on anything else. I didn't realize it wasn't working on the old rig either. >> hence this thread. I figure I got something set up wrong after a >> Gmail change. Sort of stupid to make something so secure you can't >> use it. It's like buying a computer and saying the only way to >> secure it is to keep it turned off. :/ > Well, that last part is true, as long as you keep it in a locked room. > > I just did a quick test, and sending via smtp.gmail.com using an app > password worked fine from mutt. I don't have msmtp set up at the > moment. > That is true but why buy one if you can't run it? LOL This is yet another reason I want to switch from Gmail. They nothing but nosy anyway. I think it is common knowledge that they scan all emails and use the info for various things, including ads, which I block by the way. Dale :-) :-)
[gentoo-user] Re: Computer system email no not working since gmail change.
On 2024-09-26, Dale wrote: > root@Gentoo-1 / # telnet smtp.gmail.com 587 > Trying 142.251.116.108... > Trying 2607:f8b0:4023:1000::6c... > telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Network is unreachable > root@Gentoo-1 / # > > Can't connect. Well, that explains a lot. It can't reach anything to > log into. It looks like it is trying both IPv4 and v6. So, I used > ping. It works there. > > root@Gentoo-1 / # ping smtp.gmail.com > PING smtp.gmail.com (142.250.115.108) 56(84) bytes of data. > 64 bytes from rq-in-f108.1e100.net (142.250.115.108): icmp_seq=1 ttl=53 Those commands are using two different IP addresses. It's not uncommon that DNS resolvers for heavily used services rotate through a pool of addresses, but for testing purposes you should pick a single IP address. >>> I am connected through a VPN but Seamonkey works fine. I can check and >>> send email there, >> Do you mean can send email via Gmail's SMTP server using Seamonkey? >> >> How are the SMTP server settings configured in Seamonkey? >> >> Is it using Oauth2 or an app password? > > I checked, It is using Oauth2. I had to change it a good while back > but I think SMART could still send emails for a while after that. Is it using the same port number as msmtp? >> I just did a quick test, and sending via smtp.gmail.com using an app >> password worked fine from mutt. I don't have msmtp set up at the >> moment. > > That is true but why buy one if you can't run it? LOL This is yet > another reason I want to switch from Gmail. They nothing but nosy > anyway. I think it is common knowledge that they scan all emails and > use the info for various things, including ads, which I block by the > way. There's nothing wrong with Gmail. The app password feature works exactly as documented, and is definitely the right way to provide authentication for "dumb" programs that don't know how to do OAUTH2.
[gentoo-user] Re: Computer system email no not working since gmail change.
On 2024-09-26, Grant Edwards wrote: > I just did a quick test, and sending via smtp.gmail.com using an app > password worked fine from mutt. I don't have msmtp set up at the > moment. Ijust set up msmtp and it works too. Below is the msmtp config, * If you want, replace "account gmail" with "account default", then you don't have to supply the "-a gmail" option to msmtp. * replace (in two places) usern...@gmail.com with your email address. * replace with your app password. ---8<- syslog LOG_MAIL account gmail maildomain gmail.org syslog on from gmailusern...@gmail.com host smtp.gmail.com port 465 tls on tls_certcheck off tls_starttls off auth on user gmailusern...@gmail.com password " " ---8<-
[gentoo-user] Re: Computer system email no not working since gmail change.
On 2024-09-26, Dale wrote: > Grant Edwards wrote: > >> It looks like your network is broken. Try this: >> >> $ telnet smtp.gmail.com 587 >> Trying 209.85.145.109... >> Connected to smtp.gmail.com. >> Escape character is '^]'. >> 220 smtp.gmail.com ESMTP 8926c6da1cb9f-4d60978sm58959173.69 - gsmtp >> >> Note: Port 587 is for plaintext connection and then shifting into TLS >> mode with the starttls command. When configuring msmtp: >> >> port 587 >> tls on >> tls-starttls on >> or >> port 465 >> tls on >> tls-starttls off >> >> Port 465 starts using TLS immediately >> >> [...] > Which package do I need for that telnet? I see a few packages with that > name. Any of them should work. I use net-misc/netkit-telnetd. It will also install a telnet daemon, but it won't enbale it > I am connected through a VPN but Seamonkey works fine. I can check and > send email there, Do you mean can send email via Gmail's SMTP server using Seamonkey? How are the SMTP server settings configured in Seamonkey? Is it using Oauth2 or an app password? > hence this thread. I figure I got something set up wrong after a > Gmail change. Sort of stupid to make something so secure you can't > use it. It's like buying a computer and saying the only way to > secure it is to keep it turned off. :/ Well, that last part is true, as long as you keep it in a locked room. I just did a quick test, and sending via smtp.gmail.com using an app password worked fine from mutt. I don't have msmtp set up at the moment.
Re: [gentoo-user] French binhost down
Alexis Praga wrote: > Hi, > > Just found out that http://ftp.free.fr/mirrors/ftp.gentoo.org/ (French mirror > that I use for binaries) is down. > Is there anyone that can be notified for that ? > > http://gentoo.mirrors.ovh.net/gentoo-distfiles/ works fine. > > Thanks, > > Alexis I forwarded a copy of your email off list to a person I've talked to about the binary packages. If he can't check himself, I suspect he knows who can. Could just be a temporary thing tho. Might be fixed by the time someone looks into it. ;-) Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Computer system email no not working since gmail change.
Grant Edwards wrote: > On 2024-09-26, Dale wrote: > >> I removed ssmtp and installed msmtp. I think I got the config set up >> but it is different so I may not have it right. It doesn't work tho. >> From messages. >> >> >> Sep 26 10:03:33 Gentoo-1 smartd[27728]: Executing test of to root ... >> Sep 26 10:05:40 Gentoo-1 msmtp[30861]: host=smtp.gmail.com tls=on >> auth=off from=rdalek1967gmail.com recipients=root errormsg='cannot >> connect to smtp.gmail.com, port 587: Connection timed out' >> exitcode=EX_TEMPFAIL > It looks like your network is broken. Try this: > > $ telnet smtp.gmail.com 587 > Trying 209.85.145.109... > Connected to smtp.gmail.com. > Escape character is '^]'. > 220 smtp.gmail.com ESMTP 8926c6da1cb9f-4d60978sm58959173.69 - gsmtp > > Note: Port 587 is for plaintext connection and then shifting into TLS > mode with the starttls command. When configuring msmtp: > > port 587 > tls on > tls-starttls on > or > port 465 > tls on > tls-starttls off > > Port 465 starts using TLS immediately > > $ openssl s_client -connect smtp.gmail.com:465 > CONNECTED(0003) > depth=2 C = US, O = Google Trust Services LLC, CN = GTS Root R1 > verify return:1 > depth=1 C = US, O = Google Trust Services, CN = WR2 > verify return:1 > depth=0 CN = smtp.gmail.com > verify return:1 > --- > Certificate chain > 0 s:CN = smtp.gmail.com >i:C = US, O = Google Trust Services, CN = WR2 >a:PKEY: id-ecPublicKey, 256 (bit); sigalg: RSA-SHA256 >v:NotBefore: Aug 26 07:12:09 2024 GMT; NotAfter: Nov 18 07:12:08 2024 > GMT > [...] > --- > read R BLOCK > 220 smtp.gmail.com ESMTP e9e14a558f8ab-3a344d9250esm496675ab.41 - gsmtp > > > > > Which package do I need for that telnet? I see a few packages with that name. I am connected through a VPN but Seamonkey works fine. I can check and send email there, hence this thread. I figure I got something set up wrong after a Gmail change. Sort of stupid to make something so secure you can't use it. It's like buying a computer and saying the only way to secure it is to keep it turned off. :/ Dale :-) :-)
[gentoo-user] French binhost down
Hi, Just found out that http://ftp.free.fr/mirrors/ftp.gentoo.org/ (French mirror that I use for binaries) is down. Is there anyone that can be notified for that ? http://gentoo.mirrors.ovh.net/gentoo-distfiles/ works fine. Thanks, Alexis signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Computer system email no not working since gmail change.
>On Wed, 2024-09-25 at 15:43 -0500, Dale wrote: > No one here has their system set up to use Gmail for system > emails??? I wouldn't consider gmail an option for any emails, system or otherwise. > On Thu, 2024-09-26 at 02:28 -0500, Dale wrote: > If you know a email service that isn't to expensive but is secure, > not secure enough to block me from doing things I need to do tho, I'm > open to ideas. I'd like something that is outside the USA if > possible. I can happily vouch for Mailfence. I've been a customer for ~7 years now. They are located in Belgium (strong privacy laws), and they have great customer support, with real people who understand things like DKIM. Plus, I can bring my own domain! I pay roughly $3.50 USD per month. They have a free tier plan to try it out and see if it will work out for you.
[gentoo-user] Re: Computer system email no not working since gmail change.
On 2024-09-26, Grant Edwards wrote: > On 2024-09-26, Dale wrote: > >> Sep 26 10:03:33 Gentoo-1 smartd[27728]: Executing test of to root ... >> Sep 26 10:05:40 Gentoo-1 msmtp[30861]: host=smtp.gmail.com tls=on >> auth=off from=rdalek1967gmail.com recipients=root errormsg='cannot >> connect to smtp.gmail.com, port 587: Connection timed out' >> exitcode=EX_TEMPFAIL > > It looks like your network is broken. Try this: > > $ telnet smtp.gmail.com 587 > Trying 209.85.145.109... > Connected to smtp.gmail.com. > Escape character is '^]'. > 220 smtp.gmail.com ESMTP 8926c6da1cb9f-4d60978sm58959173.69 - gsmtp BTW, some ISPs block connections to SMTP ports on hosts other than their own mail servers. [Which is a particularly annoying type of "broken".]
Re: [gentoo-user] Computer system email no not working since gmail change.
Michael wrote: > On Thursday 26 September 2024 11:44:08 BST Dale wrote: >> Michael wrote: >>> On Thursday 26 September 2024 08:28:47 BST Dale wrote: ssmtp stopped working with a conventional password when Google introduced 2- >>> Step-Verification for their GMail account. Consequently, to be able to >>> continue using ssmtp you need to set up an 'App Password' and use the 16- >>> >>> character password generated by Google to login: >>> https://support.google.com/mail/answer/185833 >>> >>> It used to be the case you could set up an 'App Password' without having >>> to >>> provide them with your phone number and other 'none-of-their-business' >>> personal information, but for some years now they have been asking for >>> more >>> information to allow you to complete setting up 'App Password' for your >>> Google account(s) and device(s). >> I also tried the 16 character password method too. It still didn't work. > In this case the ssmtp package has outlived its usefulness. It was always > limited in what characters it would accept and parse as a password. It's > abandonware since 2019 - debian recommends to use msmtp: > > https://wiki.debian.org/sSMTP I removed ssmtp and installed msmtp. I think I got the config set up but it is different so I may not have it right. It doesn't work tho. >From messages. Sep 26 10:03:33 Gentoo-1 smartd[27728]: Executing test of to root ... Sep 26 10:05:40 Gentoo-1 msmtp[30861]: host=smtp.gmail.com tls=on auth=off from=rdalek1967gmail.com recipients=root errormsg='cannot connect to smtp.gmail.com, port 587: Connection timed out' exitcode=EX_TEMPFAIL Sep 26 10:05:40 Gentoo-1 smartd[27073]: Test of to root produced unexpected output (65 bytes) to STDOUT/STDERR: Sep 26 10:05:40 Gentoo-1 smartd[27073]: mail: cannot send message: Process exited with a non-zero status Sep 26 10:05:40 Gentoo-1 smartd[27073]: Test of to root: failed (32-bit/8-bit exit status: 256/1) Config file: account default # The SMTP smarthost #host mail.oursite.example host smtp.gmail.com # Use TLS on port 465. On this port, TLS starts without STARTTLS. #port 465 port 587 tls on # tls_starttls off tls_starttls on #password sorry password sorry # Construct envelope-from addresses of the form "user@oursite.example" #from %U@oursite.example from rdalek1967gmail.com # Do not allow programs to override this envelope-from address via -f allow_from_override off # Always set a From header that matches the envelope-from address set_from_header on # Syslog logging with facility LOG_MAIL instead of the default LOG_USER syslog LOG_MAIL What did I do wrong? ;-) Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Computer system email no not working since gmail change.
Grant Edwards wrote: > On 2024-09-26, Dale wrote: >>> It used to be the case you could set up an 'App Password' without having to >>> provide them with your phone number and other 'none-of-their-business' >>> personal information, but for some years now they have been asking for more >>> information to allow you to complete setting up 'App Password' for your >>> Google >>> account(s) and device(s). >>> >> I also tried the 16 character password method too. It still didn't work. > For what value of "didn't work"? > > I don't use it regularly, but I set it up several years ago and it was > working fine the last time I tried it (a couple months ago). > > -- > Grant > > > . > It did the same thing as using the regular password. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Computer system email no not working since gmail change.
Am Thu, Sep 26, 2024 at 05:44:08AM -0500 schrieb Dale: > > That said, if you're interested in limiting opportunistic snooping, > > something > > like this may help: > > > > https://proton.me/mail > > > I'll have to check into that more. I'm not sure I could send my system > emails through that tho. It sounds like it requires encryption end to > end. I think. > > Dale I would actually try and set up local mail delivery straight to /var/spool without the detour over a network. We’ve had this topic already, methinks. You can then add the folder to Thunderbird/Seamonkey, since spool usually is mbox format, which is also the default in TB. -- Grüße | Greetings | Salut | Qapla’ Please do not share anything from, with or about me on any social network. If a snowball is a ball of snow – what, then, is a football? signature.asc Description: PGP signature
[gentoo-user] Re: Computer system email no not working since gmail change.
On 2024-09-26, cov...@ccs.covici.com wrote: > > I was looking at fastmail but which ever you go with, you should setup > your own domain and that way if you don't like your provider you can > change without changing your email address. I"ve decided to do that several times over the past couple decades. Each time I started out trying to pick a domain (that was avaialable) which I wanted to live with for the rest of my life. I could never get past that step. -- Grant
[gentoo-user] Re: Computer system email no not working since gmail change.
On 2024-09-26, Dale wrote: > >> It used to be the case you could set up an 'App Password' without having to >> provide them with your phone number and other 'none-of-their-business' >> personal information, but for some years now they have been asking for more >> information to allow you to complete setting up 'App Password' for your >> Google >> account(s) and device(s). >> > > I also tried the 16 character password method too. It still didn't work. For what value of "didn't work"? I don't use it regularly, but I set it up several years ago and it was working fine the last time I tried it (a couple months ago). -- Grant
Re: [gentoo-user] Computer system email no not working since gmail change.
On Thu, 26 Sep 2024 03:28:47 -0400, Dale wrote: > > cov...@ccs.covici.com wrote: > > On Wed, 25 Sep 2024 16:43:09 -0400, > > Dale wrote: > >> Dale wrote: > >>> Hi, > >>> > >>> I posted the other day about my email setup. Then it hit me, while I > >>> copied the settings over, I never tested it. So, I tested it. Sure > >>> enough, no email sent. Got error messages tho. I mostly, maybe only, > >>> use this for SMART drive info. If it detects failure or problems, it > >>> emails me. Well, it's supposed to anyway. So, I test by restarting > >>> smartd and it set to send a test email. > >>> > >>> I'm almost certain this started when Google changed the security setup a > >>> few years back. I've googled and tried the settings others use > >>> including the passkey thingy. None of it works. This is the output of > >>> messages for both smartd and smtp. Check out my fancy egrep. :-D > >>> > >>> > >>> root@Gentoo-1 / # tail -n 50 -f /var/log/messages | egrep 'smartd|sSMTP' > >>> Sep 2 21:23:08 Gentoo-1 smartd[20742]: Monitoring 8 ATA/SATA, 0 > >>> SCSI/SAS and 1 NVMe devices > >>> Sep 2 21:23:08 Gentoo-1 smartd[20742]: Executing test of to root > >>> ... > >>> Sep 2 21:25:25 Gentoo-1 sSMTP[20757]: Unable to connect to > >>> "smtp.gmail.com" port 587. > >>> Sep 2 21:25:25 Gentoo-1 sSMTP[20757]: Cannot open smtp.gmail.com:587 > >>> Sep 2 21:25:25 Gentoo-1 smartd[20742]: Test of to root produced > >>> unexpected output (65 bytes) to STDOUT/STDERR: > >>> Sep 2 21:25:25 Gentoo-1 smartd[20742]: mail: cannot send message: > >>> Process exited with a non-zero status > >>> Sep 2 21:25:25 Gentoo-1 smartd[20742]: Test of to root: failed > >>> (32-bit/8-bit exit status: 256/1) > >>> Sep 2 21:25:25 Gentoo-1 smartd[20742]: Executing test of to root > >>> ... > >>> Sep 2 21:27:40 Gentoo-1 sSMTP[20885]: Unable to connect to > >>> "smtp.gmail.com" port 587. > >>> Sep 2 21:27:40 Gentoo-1 sSMTP[20885]: Cannot open smtp.gmail.com:587 > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> This is a edited version of some config files. Obvious things like > >>> passwords and such changed. > >>> > >>> > >>> root@Gentoo-1 / # cat /etc/ssmtp/revaliases > >>> > >>> root:rdalek1...@gmail.com:smtp.gmail.com:587 > >>> dalerdalek1...@gmail.com:587 > >>> other_user:rdalek1...@gmail.com:587 > >>> root@Gentoo-1 / # > >>> > >>> root@Gentoo-1 / # grep -v '^#' /etc/ssmtp/ssmtp.conf > >>> root=postmaster > >>> root=rdalek1...@gmail.com #Change to your preferred email address > >>> mailhub=smtp.gmail.com:587 #Could also use port 587 for STARTTLS Old 465 > >>> rewriteDomain=Gentoo-1 #Something to denote your machine's name > >>> FromLineOverride=YES > >>> UseSTARTTLS=YES > >>> #UseTLS=YES > >>> AuthUser=rdalek1...@gmail.com > >>> AuthPass= #Special characters seem to barf with ssmtp > >>> #AuthPass=abcdefghijklmnop > >>> mailhub=mail > >>> # hostname=_HOSTNAME_ > >>> hostname=Gentoo-1 > >>> root@Gentoo-1 / # > >>> > >>> > >>> I think that is the only config files. If not, I may have missed one > >>> and that is the problem. Some things that are commented out are things > >>> I tried with no success. If someone has a working setup and would like > >>> to share a similar edited version of their files, that would be awesome. > >>> > >>> Any ideas? Does Google just outright block this now? If so, I have > >>> another good reason to get rid of gmail. :-) > >>> > >>> Dale > >>> > >>> :-) :-) > >>> > >> > >> No one here has their system set up to use Gmail for system emails??? > >> Surely there is one person who can share a working config. I just wish > >> Google would stop changing things and screwing up our emails. > >> > > I would never use a free Email service to send -- its worth exactly > > what you pay for! > > > > Well, I been wanting to switch but can't find one I know I will like > long term. I don't want to switch then not like it and have to switch > again. Then maybe repeat that a few times. I was thinking about > switching to startmail but they started this captcha stuff which makes > their website unusable for me. Every time I clicked on something, > captcha. Click on something else, captcha. I stopped using startpage > completely after reaching out to them and basically, getting little to > no real help. Shame really. Seemed like a good option. > > If you know a email service that isn't to expensive but is secure, not > secure enough to block me from doing things I need to do tho, I'm open > to ideas. I'd like something that is outside the USA if possible. You > know, one of those countries that tells folks to go pound sand when they > want to snoop around. ;-) Oh, not interested in setting up my own > either. I got enough interesting computer problems already. ;-) > I was looking at fastmail but which ever you go with, you should setup your own domain and that way if you don't like your provider you can change without changing your email address.
Re: [gentoo-user] Computer system email no not working since gmail change.
On Thursday 26 September 2024 11:44:08 BST Dale wrote: > Michael wrote: > > On Thursday 26 September 2024 08:28:47 BST Dale wrote: > >> ssmtp stopped working with a conventional password when Google > >> introduced 2- > > > > Step-Verification for their GMail account. Consequently, to be able to > > continue using ssmtp you need to set up an 'App Password' and use the 16- > > > > character password generated by Google to login: > > https://support.google.com/mail/answer/185833 > > > > It used to be the case you could set up an 'App Password' without having > > to > > provide them with your phone number and other 'none-of-their-business' > > personal information, but for some years now they have been asking for > > more > > information to allow you to complete setting up 'App Password' for your > > Google account(s) and device(s). > > I also tried the 16 character password method too. It still didn't work. In this case the ssmtp package has outlived its usefulness. It was always limited in what characters it would accept and parse as a password. It's abandonware since 2019 - debian recommends to use msmtp: https://wiki.debian.org/sSMTP signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Computer system email no not working since gmail change.
Michael wrote: > On Thursday 26 September 2024 08:28:47 BST Dale wrote: >> ssmtp stopped working with a conventional password when Google >> introduced 2- > Step-Verification for their GMail account. Consequently, to be able to > continue using ssmtp you need to set up an 'App Password' and use the 16- > character password generated by Google to login: > > https://support.google.com/mail/answer/185833 > > It used to be the case you could set up an 'App Password' without having to > provide them with your phone number and other 'none-of-their-business' > personal information, but for some years now they have been asking for more > information to allow you to complete setting up 'App Password' for your > Google > account(s) and device(s). > I also tried the 16 character password method too. It still didn't work. >>> I would never use a free Email service to send -- its worth exactly >>> what you pay for! > When the service is offered as being supposedly 'free', you, by providing > your > data, is the product. > > >> Well, I been wanting to switch but can't find one I know I will like >> long term. I don't want to switch then not like it and have to switch >> again. Then maybe repeat that a few times. I was thinking about >> switching to startmail but they started this captcha stuff which makes >> their website unusable for me. Every time I clicked on something, >> captcha. Click on something else, captcha. I stopped using startpage >> completely after reaching out to them and basically, getting little to >> no real help. Shame really. Seemed like a good option. > Mass-market services cannot afford providing individual user support. At > best > they may provide some FAQs. Some may host a forum of sorts for users to > offer > support to other users. Oh, ... hold on! LOL! > > >> If you know a email service that isn't to expensive but is secure, not >> secure enough to block me from doing things I need to do tho, I'm open >> to ideas. I'd like something that is outside the USA if possible. You >> know, one of those countries that tells folks to go pound sand when they >> want to snoop around. ;-) > The snooping mostly takes place across borders. Your government's 3-letter > agencies will ask whichever other hosting country's agencies to share with > them any information they have about you and reciprocate accordingly. There > is no privacy on the Internet. > > That said, if you're interested in limiting opportunistic snooping, something > like this may help: > > https://proton.me/mail I'll have to check into that more. I'm not sure I could send my system emails through that tho. It sounds like it requires encryption end to end. I think. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Computer system email no not working since gmail change.
On 2024-09-02 21:44, Dale wrote: > Sep 2 21:23:08 Gentoo-1 smartd[20742]: Executing test of to root ... > Sep 2 21:25:25 Gentoo-1 sSMTP[20757]: Unable to connect to > "smtp.gmail.com" port 587. > Sep 2 21:25:25 Gentoo-1 sSMTP[20757]: Cannot open smtp.gmail.com:587 > Sep 2 21:25:25 Gentoo-1 smartd[20742]: Test of to root produced > unexpected output (65 bytes) to STDOUT/STDERR: > Sep 2 21:25:25 Gentoo-1 smartd[20742]: mail: cannot send message: > Process exited with a non-zero status > Sep 2 21:25:25 Gentoo-1 smartd[20742]: Test of to root: failed > (32-bit/8-bit exit status: 256/1) > Sep 2 21:25:25 Gentoo-1 smartd[20742]: Executing test of to root ... > Sep 2 21:27:40 Gentoo-1 sSMTP[20885]: Unable to connect to > "smtp.gmail.com" port 587. > Sep 2 21:27:40 Gentoo-1 sSMTP[20885]: Cannot open smtp.gmail.com:587 What's nagging me about this is that there's a 2 minute delay between smartd executing the test and ssmtp reporting that it can't connect to smtp.gmail.com. Looks like a timeout to me rather than any issue with mail. You should at least get an "authentication failed" message back from Google... or any message at all, really. Can you check whether you can actually access smtp.gmail.com? Try this: ncat smtp.gmail.com 587 Perhaps also set -v on ssmtp to get additional log output. PS: ssmtp has been unmaintained since at least 2019, consider using msmtp instead. -- Wolf
Re: [gentoo-user] Computer system email no not working since gmail change.
On Thursday 26 September 2024 08:28:47 BST Dale wrote: > cov...@ccs.covici.com wrote: > > On Wed, 25 Sep 2024 16:43:09 -0400, > > > > Dale wrote: > >> Dale wrote: > >>> Hi, > >>> > >>> I posted the other day about my email setup. Then it hit me, while I > >>> copied the settings over, I never tested it. So, I tested it. Sure > >>> enough, no email sent. Got error messages tho. I mostly, maybe only, > >>> use this for SMART drive info. If it detects failure or problems, it > >>> emails me. Well, it's supposed to anyway. So, I test by restarting > >>> smartd and it set to send a test email. > >>> > >>> I'm almost certain this started when Google changed the security setup a > >>> few years back. I've googled and tried the settings others use > >>> including the passkey thingy. None of it works. This is the output of > >>> messages for both smartd and smtp. Check out my fancy egrep. :-D > >>> > >>> > >>> root@Gentoo-1 / # tail -n 50 -f /var/log/messages | egrep 'smartd|sSMTP' > >>> Sep 2 21:23:08 Gentoo-1 smartd[20742]: Monitoring 8 ATA/SATA, 0 > >>> SCSI/SAS and 1 NVMe devices > >>> Sep 2 21:23:08 Gentoo-1 smartd[20742]: Executing test of to root > >>> ... Sep 2 21:25:25 Gentoo-1 sSMTP[20757]: Unable to connect to > >>> "smtp.gmail.com" port 587. > >>> Sep 2 21:25:25 Gentoo-1 sSMTP[20757]: Cannot open smtp.gmail.com:587 > >>> Sep 2 21:25:25 Gentoo-1 smartd[20742]: Test of to root produced > >>> unexpected output (65 bytes) to STDOUT/STDERR: > >>> Sep 2 21:25:25 Gentoo-1 smartd[20742]: mail: cannot send message: > >>> Process exited with a non-zero status > >>> Sep 2 21:25:25 Gentoo-1 smartd[20742]: Test of to root: failed > >>> (32-bit/8-bit exit status: 256/1) > >>> Sep 2 21:25:25 Gentoo-1 smartd[20742]: Executing test of to root > >>> ... Sep 2 21:27:40 Gentoo-1 sSMTP[20885]: Unable to connect to > >>> "smtp.gmail.com" port 587. > >>> Sep 2 21:27:40 Gentoo-1 sSMTP[20885]: Cannot open smtp.gmail.com:587 > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> This is a edited version of some config files. Obvious things like > >>> passwords and such changed. > >>> > >>> > >>> root@Gentoo-1 / # cat /etc/ssmtp/revaliases > >>> > >>> root:rdalek1...@gmail.com:smtp.gmail.com:587 > >>> dalerdalek1...@gmail.com:587 > >>> other_user:rdalek1...@gmail.com:587 > >>> root@Gentoo-1 / # > >>> > >>> root@Gentoo-1 / # grep -v '^#' /etc/ssmtp/ssmtp.conf > >>> root=postmaster > >>> root=rdalek1...@gmail.com #Change to your preferred email address > >>> mailhub=smtp.gmail.com:587 #Could also use port 587 for STARTTLS Old > >>> 465 > >>> rewriteDomain=Gentoo-1 #Something to denote your machine's name > >>> FromLineOverride=YES > >>> UseSTARTTLS=YES > >>> #UseTLS=YES > >>> AuthUser=rdalek1...@gmail.com > >>> AuthPass= #Special characters seem to barf with ssmtp > >>> #AuthPass=abcdefghijklmnop > >>> mailhub=mail > >>> # hostname=_HOSTNAME_ > >>> hostname=Gentoo-1 > >>> root@Gentoo-1 / # > >>> > >>> > >>> I think that is the only config files. If not, I may have missed one > >>> and that is the problem. Some things that are commented out are things > >>> I tried with no success. If someone has a working setup and would like > >>> to share a similar edited version of their files, that would be > >>> awesome. > >>> > >>> Any ideas? Does Google just outright block this now? If so, I have > >>> another good reason to get rid of gmail. :-) > >>> > >>> Dale > >>> > >>> :-) :-) > >> > >> No one here has their system set up to use Gmail for system emails??? > >> Surely there is one person who can share a working config. I just wish > >> Google would stop changing things and screwing up our emails. ssmtp stopped working with a conventional password when Google introduced 2- Step-Verification for their GMail account. Consequently, to be able to continue using ssmtp you need to set up an 'App Password' and use the 16- character password generated by Google to login: https://support.google.com/mail/answer/185833 It used to be the case you could set up an 'App Password' without having to provide them with your phone number and other 'none-of-their-business' personal information, but for some years now they have been asking for more information to allow you to complete setting up 'App Password' for your Google account(s) and device(s). > > I would never use a free Email service to send -- its worth exactly > > what you pay for! When the service is offered as being supposedly 'free', you, by providing your data, is the product. > Well, I been wanting to switch but can't find one I know I will like > long term. I don't want to switch then not like it and have to switch > again. Then maybe repeat that a few times. I was thinking about > switching to startmail but they started this captcha stuff which makes > their website unusable for me. Every time I clicked on something, > captcha. Click on something else, captcha. I stopped using startpage > completely after reaching out to them and basic
Re: [gentoo-user] Computer system email no not working since gmail change.
cov...@ccs.covici.com wrote: > On Wed, 25 Sep 2024 16:43:09 -0400, > Dale wrote: >> Dale wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> I posted the other day about my email setup. Then it hit me, while I >>> copied the settings over, I never tested it. So, I tested it. Sure >>> enough, no email sent. Got error messages tho. I mostly, maybe only, >>> use this for SMART drive info. If it detects failure or problems, it >>> emails me. Well, it's supposed to anyway. So, I test by restarting >>> smartd and it set to send a test email. >>> >>> I'm almost certain this started when Google changed the security setup a >>> few years back. I've googled and tried the settings others use >>> including the passkey thingy. None of it works. This is the output of >>> messages for both smartd and smtp. Check out my fancy egrep. :-D >>> >>> >>> root@Gentoo-1 / # tail -n 50 -f /var/log/messages | egrep 'smartd|sSMTP' >>> Sep 2 21:23:08 Gentoo-1 smartd[20742]: Monitoring 8 ATA/SATA, 0 >>> SCSI/SAS and 1 NVMe devices >>> Sep 2 21:23:08 Gentoo-1 smartd[20742]: Executing test of to root ... >>> Sep 2 21:25:25 Gentoo-1 sSMTP[20757]: Unable to connect to >>> "smtp.gmail.com" port 587. >>> Sep 2 21:25:25 Gentoo-1 sSMTP[20757]: Cannot open smtp.gmail.com:587 >>> Sep 2 21:25:25 Gentoo-1 smartd[20742]: Test of to root produced >>> unexpected output (65 bytes) to STDOUT/STDERR: >>> Sep 2 21:25:25 Gentoo-1 smartd[20742]: mail: cannot send message: >>> Process exited with a non-zero status >>> Sep 2 21:25:25 Gentoo-1 smartd[20742]: Test of to root: failed >>> (32-bit/8-bit exit status: 256/1) >>> Sep 2 21:25:25 Gentoo-1 smartd[20742]: Executing test of to root ... >>> Sep 2 21:27:40 Gentoo-1 sSMTP[20885]: Unable to connect to >>> "smtp.gmail.com" port 587. >>> Sep 2 21:27:40 Gentoo-1 sSMTP[20885]: Cannot open smtp.gmail.com:587 >>> >>> >>> >>> This is a edited version of some config files. Obvious things like >>> passwords and such changed. >>> >>> >>> root@Gentoo-1 / # cat /etc/ssmtp/revaliases >>> >>> root:rdalek1...@gmail.com:smtp.gmail.com:587 >>> dalerdalek1...@gmail.com:587 >>> other_user:rdalek1...@gmail.com:587 >>> root@Gentoo-1 / # >>> >>> root@Gentoo-1 / # grep -v '^#' /etc/ssmtp/ssmtp.conf >>> root=postmaster >>> root=rdalek1...@gmail.com #Change to your preferred email address >>> mailhub=smtp.gmail.com:587 #Could also use port 587 for STARTTLS Old 465 >>> rewriteDomain=Gentoo-1 #Something to denote your machine's name >>> FromLineOverride=YES >>> UseSTARTTLS=YES >>> #UseTLS=YES >>> AuthUser=rdalek1...@gmail.com >>> AuthPass= #Special characters seem to barf with ssmtp >>> #AuthPass=abcdefghijklmnop >>> mailhub=mail >>> # hostname=_HOSTNAME_ >>> hostname=Gentoo-1 >>> root@Gentoo-1 / # >>> >>> >>> I think that is the only config files. If not, I may have missed one >>> and that is the problem. Some things that are commented out are things >>> I tried with no success. If someone has a working setup and would like >>> to share a similar edited version of their files, that would be awesome. >>> >>> Any ideas? Does Google just outright block this now? If so, I have >>> another good reason to get rid of gmail. :-) >>> >>> Dale >>> >>> :-) :-) >>> >> >> No one here has their system set up to use Gmail for system emails??? >> Surely there is one person who can share a working config. I just wish >> Google would stop changing things and screwing up our emails. >> > I would never use a free Email service to send -- its worth exactly > what you pay for! > Well, I been wanting to switch but can't find one I know I will like long term. I don't want to switch then not like it and have to switch again. Then maybe repeat that a few times. I was thinking about switching to startmail but they started this captcha stuff which makes their website unusable for me. Every time I clicked on something, captcha. Click on something else, captcha. I stopped using startpage completely after reaching out to them and basically, getting little to no real help. Shame really. Seemed like a good option. If you know a email service that isn't to expensive but is secure, not secure enough to block me from doing things I need to do tho, I'm open to ideas. I'd like something that is outside the USA if possible. You know, one of those countries that tells folks to go pound sand when they want to snoop around. ;-) Oh, not interested in setting up my own either. I got enough interesting computer problems already. ;-) Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Computer system email no not working since gmail change.
On Wed, 25 Sep 2024 16:43:09 -0400, Dale wrote: > > Dale wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I posted the other day about my email setup. Then it hit me, while I > > copied the settings over, I never tested it. So, I tested it. Sure > > enough, no email sent. Got error messages tho. I mostly, maybe only, > > use this for SMART drive info. If it detects failure or problems, it > > emails me. Well, it's supposed to anyway. So, I test by restarting > > smartd and it set to send a test email. > > > > I'm almost certain this started when Google changed the security setup a > > few years back. I've googled and tried the settings others use > > including the passkey thingy. None of it works. This is the output of > > messages for both smartd and smtp. Check out my fancy egrep. :-D > > > > > > root@Gentoo-1 / # tail -n 50 -f /var/log/messages | egrep 'smartd|sSMTP' > > Sep 2 21:23:08 Gentoo-1 smartd[20742]: Monitoring 8 ATA/SATA, 0 > > SCSI/SAS and 1 NVMe devices > > Sep 2 21:23:08 Gentoo-1 smartd[20742]: Executing test of to root ... > > Sep 2 21:25:25 Gentoo-1 sSMTP[20757]: Unable to connect to > > "smtp.gmail.com" port 587. > > Sep 2 21:25:25 Gentoo-1 sSMTP[20757]: Cannot open smtp.gmail.com:587 > > Sep 2 21:25:25 Gentoo-1 smartd[20742]: Test of to root produced > > unexpected output (65 bytes) to STDOUT/STDERR: > > Sep 2 21:25:25 Gentoo-1 smartd[20742]: mail: cannot send message: > > Process exited with a non-zero status > > Sep 2 21:25:25 Gentoo-1 smartd[20742]: Test of to root: failed > > (32-bit/8-bit exit status: 256/1) > > Sep 2 21:25:25 Gentoo-1 smartd[20742]: Executing test of to root ... > > Sep 2 21:27:40 Gentoo-1 sSMTP[20885]: Unable to connect to > > "smtp.gmail.com" port 587. > > Sep 2 21:27:40 Gentoo-1 sSMTP[20885]: Cannot open smtp.gmail.com:587 > > > > > > > > This is a edited version of some config files. Obvious things like > > passwords and such changed. > > > > > > root@Gentoo-1 / # cat /etc/ssmtp/revaliases > > > > root:rdalek1...@gmail.com:smtp.gmail.com:587 > > dalerdalek1...@gmail.com:587 > > other_user:rdalek1...@gmail.com:587 > > root@Gentoo-1 / # > > > > root@Gentoo-1 / # grep -v '^#' /etc/ssmtp/ssmtp.conf > > root=postmaster > > root=rdalek1...@gmail.com #Change to your preferred email address > > mailhub=smtp.gmail.com:587 #Could also use port 587 for STARTTLS Old 465 > > rewriteDomain=Gentoo-1 #Something to denote your machine's name > > FromLineOverride=YES > > UseSTARTTLS=YES > > #UseTLS=YES > > AuthUser=rdalek1...@gmail.com > > AuthPass= #Special characters seem to barf with ssmtp > > #AuthPass=abcdefghijklmnop > > mailhub=mail > > # hostname=_HOSTNAME_ > > hostname=Gentoo-1 > > root@Gentoo-1 / # > > > > > > I think that is the only config files. If not, I may have missed one > > and that is the problem. Some things that are commented out are things > > I tried with no success. If someone has a working setup and would like > > to share a similar edited version of their files, that would be awesome. > > > > Any ideas? Does Google just outright block this now? If so, I have > > another good reason to get rid of gmail. :-) > > > > Dale > > > > :-) :-) > > > > > No one here has their system set up to use Gmail for system emails??? > Surely there is one person who can share a working config. I just wish > Google would stop changing things and screwing up our emails. > I would never use a free Email service to send -- its worth exactly > what you pay for!
Re: [gentoo-user] Wayland! Beware of!
On Wed, Sep 25, 2024 at 08:25:12PM -0400, Eli Schwartz wrote > I think the two of you are talking past each other. What did Arsen mean > by "the vague concept of IPv6"? I suspect he meant: > > You are trying to solve a concrete user issue with your browsing. Correct. > Your idea of how to solve the user issue is to blame IPv6, then get all > meta about how to solve it and decide that the vague concept of IPv6 > must be eradicated and purged from the public consciousness You're overdoing it and you seem offended. I was not "thinking deep thoughts about IPV6" or going off the deep end with QANON conspiracies. Back then I was unaware of the power of sysctl or using the kernel command line. All that I (and a lot of other people) knew was that... USE="ipv6" ==> delays and timeouts for people on IPV4-only systems USE="-ipv6" ==> problems solved for people on IPV4-only systems This was simply a pragmatic decision to solve a problem. Firefox with USE="ipv6" probably would've worked OK on a machine with a working IPV6 connection. > -- rather than disabling the specific issue that is causing problems. Looking at the output of "sysctl -a | grep net.ip | less" *ON MY SYSTEM*, I see a slew of "net.ipv4.*" entries, but no "net.ipv6.*" entries, so there's no "sysctl knob" to tweak. -- There are 2 types of people 1) Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data
Re: [gentoo-user] Wayland! Beware of!
On 9/25/24 6:21 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: >> There is no reason to disable IPv6 support, as Eli said (especially if >> yo do not know _what_ you're trying to disable, and are just trying to >> blanket-disable a vague concept of IPv6). > > This is *NOT* about a "vague concept". This is about solving a bug > that makes browsing unbearable. I think the two of you are talking past each other. What did Arsen mean by "the vague concept of IPv6"? I suspect he meant: You are trying to solve a concrete user issue with your browsing. Your idea of how to solve the user issue is to blame IPv6, then get all meta about how to solve it and decide that the vague concept of IPv6 must be eradicated and purged from the public consciousness -- rather than disabling the specific issue that is causing problems. > I'm not the only one. See archive > https://public-inbox.gentoo.org/gentoo-user/14d2d8af-e7b9-d5e6-06c1-a7f3ad01a...@gmail.com/ > >> When syncing portage today I saw what the delay is: apparently it >> tries ipv6 twice, fails, then resorts to ipv4 which works fine. >> >> Most of my systems now have ipv6 support removed, and viola! no >> more delays. > > In his case, the delay was only 10 seconds, but a delay nonetheless. > This raises another point, it was not just Firefox that ran into > problems, but rather anything that talked to the internet. Hmm, that's basically what I said up-thread too. :) Portage, like many other packages, talks to the internet and can have timeouts when IPv6 is broken. And there is no USE=ipv6 to disable for portage, nor for dev-lang/python, nor for dev-python/requests. So how do you fix the problem? Via the kernel command line or the sysctl. Easy. In the thread you link to, people spent days blaming systemd for "blocking ipv6 removal in our kernel .config" and had to switch init systems just so they could reconfigure and rebuild their kernel. Eventually someone suggested setting ipv6.disable_ipv6=1 on the kernel command line. But the person with the original issue had already, by that time, """ managed to switch back to openrc. That didn't go real smoothly, portage couldn't figure out how to do it on it's own after switching profiles, it was blindly removing and rebuilding some packages manually that eventually made it work and not want to pull in systemd again """ and never actually bothered setting the kernel command line, nor listening to the advice of the people in the thread who suggested that the kernel .config option for systemd is not actually required to run systemd, it's just a quick toggle for people who want to bulk-enable settings that are best to use when running systemd. And this is why rumors of how you need to set USE="-ipv6" to "make your system stop timing out" spread. Because no one actually pays attention to reality, and no one actually bothers to test the kernel command line or sysctl options, so they spend days recompiling their system and juggling USE flags and swapping back and forth between init systems in the hope that it will stop the timeouts. And all along it was literally a couple lines in a text file and one `sysctl` command away, without even needing to reboot. All it takes is people not running around like headless chickens. All it takes is people not claiming that the Gentoo Developers have "infamously made a USE flag change that made everyone's systems suddenly break". -- Eli Schwartz OpenPGP_signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Wayland! Beware of!
On 2024-09-24 21:42:23, Eli Schwartz wrote: > > Please do not disable the USE=ipv6, as that is *utterly* insane. It also > does approximately nothing. In packages which support this USE flag, > which is rare, it causes the code to use old, untested APIs which only > support ipv4, rather than new, tested APIs that support ipv4 and ipv6 > equally well while having the benefit of being stable, reliable and > efficient. I think this greatly depends on the package. djbdns is fresh on my mind, and djbdns[ipv6] will pull in a massive third-party patch to add support for serving ipv6 records. The changes are so pervasive that (a) they required manually re-rolling several ipv4 security patches, and (b) may reintroduce some of the same security issues over ipv6, if nobody is filing CVEs against the patch. It's not clear-cut, but you can certainly argue that you're better off without USE=ipv6 if you're not serving ipv6 records. Pkgcheck has been warning about "bad" instances of USE=ipv6 for some time now. The longer the warning stays in place, the more packages we can expect to import some special useful meaning to it.
Re: [gentoo-user] Wayland! Beware of!
On Wed, Sep 25, 2024 at 01:53:49PM +0200, Arsen Arsenović wrote > I suspect your Firefox anecdote happened due to misconfiguration > (I think network.http.fast-fallback-to-IPv4 dictates the use of this > algorithm in Firefox). I do not recall ever touching it in about:config. In my current browser (Pale Moon) that setting is at its default value of "true". > As a point of reference, I do nothing to disable IPv6 support, and my > ISP does not provide IPv6 support, yet I have no added latency due to > IPv6 support being enabled. I just get the benefits of better LANs and > internal networks. > > There is no reason to disable IPv6 support, as Eli said (especially if > yo do not know _what_ you're trying to disable, and are just trying to > blanket-disable a vague concept of IPv6). This is *NOT* about a "vague concept". This is about solving a bug that makes browsing unbearable. I'm not the only one. See archive https://public-inbox.gentoo.org/gentoo-user/14d2d8af-e7b9-d5e6-06c1-a7f3ad01a...@gmail.com/ > When syncing portage today I saw what the delay is: apparently it > tries ipv6 twice, fails, then resorts to ipv4 which works fine. > > Most of my systems now have ipv6 support removed, and viola! no > more delays. In his case, the delay was only 10 seconds, but a delay nonetheless. This raises another point, it was not just Firefox that ran into problems, but rather anything that talked to the internet. Back in January, my ISP migrated me from cable to fibre. I went from legacy 10 mbits down 1 up, 200 gigabytes/month quota, to "30 mbits symmetric unlimited" for the same price. The fibre service does have IPV6 enabled, and I'll get around to going IPV6 one of these days, especially if there's a "flag day" shutdown of IPV4. -- There are 2 types of people 1) Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data
Re: [gentoo-user] Computer system email no not working since gmail change.
Dale wrote: > Hi, > > I posted the other day about my email setup. Then it hit me, while I > copied the settings over, I never tested it. So, I tested it. Sure > enough, no email sent. Got error messages tho. I mostly, maybe only, > use this for SMART drive info. If it detects failure or problems, it > emails me. Well, it's supposed to anyway. So, I test by restarting > smartd and it set to send a test email. > > I'm almost certain this started when Google changed the security setup a > few years back. I've googled and tried the settings others use > including the passkey thingy. None of it works. This is the output of > messages for both smartd and smtp. Check out my fancy egrep. :-D > > > root@Gentoo-1 / # tail -n 50 -f /var/log/messages | egrep 'smartd|sSMTP' > Sep 2 21:23:08 Gentoo-1 smartd[20742]: Monitoring 8 ATA/SATA, 0 > SCSI/SAS and 1 NVMe devices > Sep 2 21:23:08 Gentoo-1 smartd[20742]: Executing test of to root ... > Sep 2 21:25:25 Gentoo-1 sSMTP[20757]: Unable to connect to > "smtp.gmail.com" port 587. > Sep 2 21:25:25 Gentoo-1 sSMTP[20757]: Cannot open smtp.gmail.com:587 > Sep 2 21:25:25 Gentoo-1 smartd[20742]: Test of to root produced > unexpected output (65 bytes) to STDOUT/STDERR: > Sep 2 21:25:25 Gentoo-1 smartd[20742]: mail: cannot send message: > Process exited with a non-zero status > Sep 2 21:25:25 Gentoo-1 smartd[20742]: Test of to root: failed > (32-bit/8-bit exit status: 256/1) > Sep 2 21:25:25 Gentoo-1 smartd[20742]: Executing test of to root ... > Sep 2 21:27:40 Gentoo-1 sSMTP[20885]: Unable to connect to > "smtp.gmail.com" port 587. > Sep 2 21:27:40 Gentoo-1 sSMTP[20885]: Cannot open smtp.gmail.com:587 > > > > This is a edited version of some config files. Obvious things like > passwords and such changed. > > > root@Gentoo-1 / # cat /etc/ssmtp/revaliases > > root:rdalek1...@gmail.com:smtp.gmail.com:587 > dalerdalek1...@gmail.com:587 > other_user:rdalek1...@gmail.com:587 > root@Gentoo-1 / # > > root@Gentoo-1 / # grep -v '^#' /etc/ssmtp/ssmtp.conf > root=postmaster > root=rdalek1...@gmail.com #Change to your preferred email address > mailhub=smtp.gmail.com:587 #Could also use port 587 for STARTTLS Old 465 > rewriteDomain=Gentoo-1 #Something to denote your machine's name > FromLineOverride=YES > UseSTARTTLS=YES > #UseTLS=YES > AuthUser=rdalek1...@gmail.com > AuthPass= #Special characters seem to barf with ssmtp > #AuthPass=abcdefghijklmnop > mailhub=mail > # hostname=_HOSTNAME_ > hostname=Gentoo-1 > root@Gentoo-1 / # > > > I think that is the only config files. If not, I may have missed one > and that is the problem. Some things that are commented out are things > I tried with no success. If someone has a working setup and would like > to share a similar edited version of their files, that would be awesome. > > Any ideas? Does Google just outright block this now? If so, I have > another good reason to get rid of gmail. :-) > > Dale > > :-) :-) > No one here has their system set up to use Gmail for system emails??? Surely there is one person who can share a working config. I just wish Google would stop changing things and screwing up our emails. Dale :-) :-)
[gentoo-user] Re: Package compile failures with "internal compiler error: Segmentation fault".
Dale wrote:
> Howdy,
>
> I was trying to re-emerge some packages. The ones I was working on
> failed with "internal compiler error: Segmentation fault" or similar
> being the common reason for failing. I did get gcc to compile and
> install. But other packages are failing, but some are compiling just
> fine. Here's a partial list at least.
>
> net-libs/webkit-gtk
> kde-plasma/kpipewire
> sys-devel/clang
> sys-devel/llvm
>
>
> When I couldn't get a couple to complete. I just went to my chroot and
> started a emerge -e world. Then the packages above started failing as
> well in the chroot. This all started when gkrellm would not open due to
> a missing module. Some info on gcc.
>
>
> root@Gentoo-1 / # gcc-config -l
> [1] x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-13 *
> root@Gentoo-1 / #
>
>
> Output of one failed package.
>
>
> In file included from
> /var/tmp/portage/net-libs/webkit-gtk-2.44.2/work/webkitgtk-2.44.2/Source/WebCore/platform/graphics/GraphicsLayer.h:46,
> from
> /var/tmp/portage/net-libs/webkit-gtk-2.44.2/work/webkitgtk-2.44.2/Source/WebCore/platform/graphics/GraphicsLayerContentsDisplayDelegate.h:28,
> from
> /var/tmp/portage/net-libs/webkit-gtk-2.44.2/work/webkitgtk-2.44.2/Source/WebCore/html/canvas/CanvasRenderingContext.h:29,
> from
> /var/tmp/portage/net-libs/webkit-gtk-2.44.2/work/webkitgtk-2.44.2/Source/WebCore/html/canvas/GPUBasedCanvasRenderingContext.h:29,
> from
> /var/tmp/portage/net-libs/webkit-gtk-2.44.2/work/webkitgtk-2.44.2/Source/WebCore/html/canvas/WebGLRenderingContextBase.h:33,
> from
> /var/tmp/portage/net-libs/webkit-gtk-2.44.2/work/webkitgtk-2.44.2/Source/WebCore/html/canvas/WebGLStencilTexturing.h:29,
> from
> /var/tmp/portage/net-libs/webkit-gtk-2.44.2/work/webkitgtk-2.44.2/Source/WebCore/html/canvas/WebGLStencilTexturing.cpp:29,
> from
> /var/tmp/portage/net-libs/webkit-gtk-2.44.2/work/webkitgtk-2.44.2_build/WebCore/DerivedSources/unified-sources/UnifiedSource-950a39b6-33.cpp:1:
> /var/tmp/portage/net-libs/webkit-gtk-2.44.2/work/webkitgtk-2.44.2/Source/WebCore/platform/ScrollableArea.h:96:153:
> internal compiler error: in layout_decl, at stor-layout.cc:642
> 96 | virtual bool requestScrollToPosition(const ScrollPosition&,
> const ScrollPositionChangeOptions& =
> ScrollPositionChangeOptions::createProgrammatic()) { return false; }
>
> |
>
> ^
> 0x1d56132 internal_error(char const*, ...)
> ???:0
> 0x6dd3d1 fancy_abort(char const*, int, char const*)
> ???:0
> 0x769dc4 start_preparsed_function(tree_node*, tree_node*, int)
> ???:0
> 0x85cd68 c_parse_file()
> ???:0
> 0x955f41 c_common_parse_file()
> ???:0
>
>
> And another package:
>
>
> /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/13/include/g++-v13/tuple: In
> instantiation of ‘constexpr std::__tuple_element_t<__i,
> std::tuple<_UTypes ...> >& std::get(const tuple<_UTypes ...>&) [with
> long unsigned int __i = 0; _Elements =
> {clang::CodeGen::CoverageMappingModuleGen*,
> default_delete};
> __tuple_element_t<__i, tuple<_UTypes ...> > =
> clang::CodeGen::CoverageMappingModuleGen*]’:
> /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/13/include/g++-v13/bits/unique_ptr.h:199:62:
>
> required from ‘std::__uniq_ptr_impl<_Tp, _Dp>::pointer
> std::__uniq_ptr_impl<_Tp, _Dp>::_M_ptr() const [with _Tp =
> clang::CodeGen::CoverageMappingModuleGen; _Dp =
> std::default_delete; pointer =
> clang::CodeGen::CoverageMappingModuleGen*]’
> /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/13/include/g++-v13/bits/unique_ptr.h:470:27:
>
> required from ‘std::unique_ptr<_Tp, _Dp>::pointer std::unique_ptr<_Tp,
> _Dp>::get() const [with _Tp = clang::CodeGen::CoverageMappingModuleGen;
> _Dp = std::default_delete;
> pointer = clang::CodeGen::CoverageMappingModuleGen*]’
> /var/tmp/portage/sys-devel/clang-16.0.6/work/clang/lib/CodeGen/CodeGenModule.h:668:31:
>
> required from here
> /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/13/include/g++-v13/tuple:1810:43:
> internal compiler error: Segmentation fault
> 1810 | { return std::__get_helper<__i>(__t); }
> | ^
> 0x1d56132 internal_error(char const*, ...)
> ???:0
> 0x9816d6 ggc_set_mark(void const*)
> ???:0
> 0x8cc377 gt_ggc_mx_lang_tree_node(void*)
> ???:0
> 0x8cccfc gt_ggc_mx_lang_tree_node(void*)
> ???:0
> 0x8ccddf gt_ggc_mx_lang_tree_node(void*)
> ???:0
> 0x8ccda1 gt_ggc_mx_lang_tree_node(void*)
> ???:0
>
>
> As you can tell, compiler error is a common theme. All of them I looked
> at seem to be very similar to that. I think there is a theme and likely
> common cause of the error but no idea where to start.
>
> Anyone have any ideas on what is causing this? Searches reveal
> everything from bad kernel, bad gcc, bad hardware and such.
Re: [gentoo-user] Wayland! Beware of!
On 9/25/24 7:26 AM, Eli Schwartz wrote: On 9/25/24 6:00 AM, Walter Dnes wrote: >My system is actually very stable. In the shitstorm that erupted on > this list at "ipv6" enabling I did not see any mention of sysctl. In my > /etc/default/grub file I have... > > GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="noexec=on net.ifnames=0 ipv6.disable=1" > > With this setting is it guaranteed that a program compiled with "ipv6" > flag will not try IPV6 first and timeout before dropping down to IPV4? (Note that the sysctl dynamically disables ipv6 support so that you can manually toggle it after boot, e.g. for testing. The kernel command line option hard-disables it at boot time. Your choice which to use, I guess.) If the kernel has disabled ipv6 there is no timeout because no attempt is made. If the kernel has enabled ipv6 then an attempt will be made and it may: - succeed, if your network has functioning ipv6 connectivity - fail instantly, if your network is correctly configured (you may not be in control of the network you use) - fail after a lengthy timeout after your network "valiantly" attempts to send your connection attempt into a black hole of doom This was actually a pretty common failure mode around 10-15 years ago. An early Apple Airport Express had a bug where it would issue global-scope v6 addresses and send RAs even if it didn't have global connectivity. Those issues (and similar ones on less ubiquitus routers), fed a lot of the paranoia around desires to disable IPv6. It still can happen today, but IME it's more often in the form of an ISP with inferior IPv6 connectivity. -- Jay Faulkner As Arsen mentioned, RFC 8305 defines the "Happy Eyeballs" mechanism for trying both ipv4 and ipv6 at the same time, incurring the cost of slightly more traffic for the benefit of avoiding timeouts (since ipv4 will still succeed just as fast regardless of whether a parallel ipv6 is timing out, and as soon as ipv4 succeeds, the ipv6 timeout is ignored and made redundant). Not all software uses Happy Eyeballs. In particular, emerge --sync does not, because the python library that portage uses to check for updated PGP keys used when validating manifests, does not. This pained me tremendously since "emerge --sync" would literally hang forever, until I disabled ipv6 via the kernel. Note that since Aug 31, 2021, Gentoo's package for python has not supported USE=ipv6, but the sysctl works quite well. >How OS-specific is this? I "asked Mr. Google" and the NordVPN web > page recommended for Redhat based distros... It is specific to the linux kernel, that is all. You may replace "all" with the name of a machine-specific interface (as listed by "ip addr") to express settings that are specific to a given interface. Most people do not need that flexibility and simply want all interfaces to look the same.
Re: [gentoo-user] Wayland! Beware of!
On 9/25/24 6:00 AM, Walter Dnes wrote: > My system is actually very stable. In the shitstorm that erupted on > this list at "ipv6" enabling I did not see any mention of sysctl. In my > /etc/default/grub file I have... > > GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="noexec=on net.ifnames=0 ipv6.disable=1" > > With this setting is it guaranteed that a program compiled with "ipv6" > flag will not try IPV6 first and timeout before dropping down to IPV4? (Note that the sysctl dynamically disables ipv6 support so that you can manually toggle it after boot, e.g. for testing. The kernel command line option hard-disables it at boot time. Your choice which to use, I guess.) If the kernel has disabled ipv6 there is no timeout because no attempt is made. If the kernel has enabled ipv6 then an attempt will be made and it may: - succeed, if your network has functioning ipv6 connectivity - fail instantly, if your network is correctly configured (you may not be in control of the network you use) - fail after a lengthy timeout after your network "valiantly" attempts to send your connection attempt into a black hole of doom As Arsen mentioned, RFC 8305 defines the "Happy Eyeballs" mechanism for trying both ipv4 and ipv6 at the same time, incurring the cost of slightly more traffic for the benefit of avoiding timeouts (since ipv4 will still succeed just as fast regardless of whether a parallel ipv6 is timing out, and as soon as ipv4 succeeds, the ipv6 timeout is ignored and made redundant). Not all software uses Happy Eyeballs. In particular, emerge --sync does not, because the python library that portage uses to check for updated PGP keys used when validating manifests, does not. This pained me tremendously since "emerge --sync" would literally hang forever, until I disabled ipv6 via the kernel. Note that since Aug 31, 2021, Gentoo's package for python has not supported USE=ipv6, but the sysctl works quite well. > How OS-specific is this? I "asked Mr. Google" and the NordVPN web > page recommended for Redhat based distros... It is specific to the linux kernel, that is all. You may replace "all" with the name of a machine-specific interface (as listed by "ip addr") to express settings that are specific to a given interface. Most people do not need that flexibility and simply want all interfaces to look the same. -- Eli Schwartz OpenPGP_signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Wayland! Beware of!
Walter Dnes writes: > On Tue, Sep 24, 2024 at 09:42:23PM -0400, Eli Schwartz wrote > >> If you actually want to disable ipv6, instead of insanely rebuilding >> binaries to use untested broken segfaulting code, use the sysctl >> knob to tell the kernel "when asked to give some application a bit >> of internet traffic, don't use ipv6". >> >> net.ipv6.conf.all.disable_ipv6 > > My system is actually very stable. In the shitstorm that erupted on > this list at "ipv6" enabling I did not see any mention of sysctl. In my > /etc/default/grub file I have... > > GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="noexec=on net.ifnames=0 ipv6.disable=1" > > With this setting is it guaranteed that a program compiled with "ipv6" > flag will not try IPV6 first and timeout before dropping down to IPV4? That's not how IPv6 is supported. Dual-stack support relies on 'happy eyeballs', an algorithm by which both IPv4 and v6 are tried optimistically, and the first one to succeed is accepted. This adds no latency. I suspect your Firefox anecdote happened due to misconfiguration (I think network.http.fast-fallback-to-IPv4 dictates the use of this algorithm in Firefox). As a point of reference, I do nothing to disable IPv6 support, and my ISP does not provide IPv6 support, yet I have no added latency due to IPv6 support being enabled. I just get the benefits of better LANs and internal networks. There is no reason to disable IPv6 support, as Eli said (especially if yo do not know _what_ you're trying to disable, and are just trying to blanket-disable a vague concept of IPv6). > How OS-specific is this? Not at all. > I "asked Mr. Google" and the NordVPN web page recommended for Redhat > based distros... > > net.ipv6.conf.all.disable_ipv6=1 > net.ipv6.conf.default.disable_ipv6=1 > net.ipv6.conf.tun0.disable_ipv6=1 > > For Debian-based distros... > > net.ipv6.conf.all.disable_ipv6 = 1 > net.ipv6.conf.default.disable_ipv6 = 1 > net.ipv6.conf.lo.disable_ipv6 = 1 > net.ipv6.conf.tun0.disable_ipv6 = 1 > > Other answers for disabling IPV6 include stuff like... > > net.ipv6.conf.all.disable_ipv6 = 1 > net.ipv6.conf.default.disable_ipv6 = 1 > net.ipv6.conf.lo.disable_ipv6 = 1 > net.ipv6.conf.eth0.disable_ipv6 = 1 Note that all of the above include interface names, this is why they differ, and just copy-pasting them blindly will not work. Note also that they're all identical, save for the interfaces mentioned. > BTW, I did *NOT* have IPV6 enabled when the USE flag changed... > > [x8940][root][~] grep IPV6 /usr/src/linux/.config > # CONFIG_IPV6 is not set > > > >> That's quite the bloated collection of enabled USE flags you have >> there -- lots of stuff that are much more bloated than ipv6, in >> fact. :) > > Stuff that I don't use is left disabled. I occasionally look at my > package.use file. If a flag is enabled for multiple apps there, I run > > USE="flag" emerge -pv --changed-use --deep --pdate @world > > If there isn't much new stuff pulled in I'll... > > * enable the flag in make.conf > * delete the enabling entries in package.use > * disable, in package.use, the flag for new stuff that tha flag pulls in > > This minimizes the size of my package.use file. Note: this is optimal > for the collection of apps *THAT I USE*. YMMV. -- Arsen Arsenović signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Wayland! Beware of!
On Tue, Sep 24, 2024 at 09:42:23PM -0400, Eli Schwartz wrote > If you actually want to disable ipv6, instead of insanely rebuilding > binaries to use untested broken segfaulting code, use the sysctl > knob to tell the kernel "when asked to give some application a bit > of internet traffic, don't use ipv6". > > net.ipv6.conf.all.disable_ipv6 My system is actually very stable. In the shitstorm that erupted on this list at "ipv6" enabling I did not see any mention of sysctl. In my /etc/default/grub file I have... GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="noexec=on net.ifnames=0 ipv6.disable=1" With this setting is it guaranteed that a program compiled with "ipv6" flag will not try IPV6 first and timeout before dropping down to IPV4? How OS-specific is this? I "asked Mr. Google" and the NordVPN web page recommended for Redhat based distros... net.ipv6.conf.all.disable_ipv6=1 net.ipv6.conf.default.disable_ipv6=1 net.ipv6.conf.tun0.disable_ipv6=1 For Debian-based distros... net.ipv6.conf.all.disable_ipv6 = 1 net.ipv6.conf.default.disable_ipv6 = 1 net.ipv6.conf.lo.disable_ipv6 = 1 net.ipv6.conf.tun0.disable_ipv6 = 1 Other answers for disabling IPV6 include stuff like... net.ipv6.conf.all.disable_ipv6 = 1 net.ipv6.conf.default.disable_ipv6 = 1 net.ipv6.conf.lo.disable_ipv6 = 1 net.ipv6.conf.eth0.disable_ipv6 = 1 BTW, I did *NOT* have IPV6 enabled when the USE flag changed... [x8940][root][~] grep IPV6 /usr/src/linux/.config # CONFIG_IPV6 is not set > That's quite the bloated collection of enabled USE flags you have > there -- lots of stuff that are much more bloated than ipv6, in > fact. :) Stuff that I don't use is left disabled. I occasionally look at my package.use file. If a flag is enabled for multiple apps there, I run USE="flag" emerge -pv --changed-use --deep --pdate @world If there isn't much new stuff pulled in I'll... * enable the flag in make.conf * delete the enabling entries in package.use * disable, in package.use, the flag for new stuff that tha flag pulls in This minimizes the size of my package.use file. Note: this is optimal for the collection of apps *THAT I USE*. YMMV. -- There are 2 types of people 1) Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data
Re: [gentoo-user] Wayland! Beware of!
On 9/24/24 6:00 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Mon, Sep 23, 2024 at 05:11:14PM -0400, Eli Schwartz wrote > >> Do you have that little faith in the Gentoo Developers, that you >> think we'd make a USE flag change that made everyone's systems >> suddenly break? >> >> :( > > I was around way back when "ipv6" became the default. I was using > Firefox back then. Type in a URL; Firefox spins its wheels for 60 > seconds in IPV6; it finally gives up and drops down to IPV4. This > happened with every URL. Please do not disable the USE=ipv6, as that is *utterly* insane. It also does approximately nothing. In packages which support this USE flag, which is rare, it causes the code to use old, untested APIs which only support ipv4, rather than new, tested APIs that support ipv4 and ipv6 equally well while having the benefit of being stable, reliable and efficient. These old deprecated codepaths are prone to crashing and segfaulting because the codebase for it is not enabled by anyone and the original implementations are only kept around for the benefit of e.g. ancient static binaries that cannot be rebuilt. USE=ipv6 does not mean "ewww, evil bloated ipv6 socket functions". It has NO influence on whether you use ipv4 or ipv6 traffic, as the vast majority of the software you use doesn't even support the option, they simply use maintained functions that just ask the kernel to give you some internet traffic. If you actually want to disable ipv6, instead of insanely rebuilding binaries to use untested broken segfaulting code, use the sysctl knob to tell the kernel "when asked to give some application a bit of internet traffic, don't use ipv6". net.ipv6.conf.all.disable_ipv6 This will: - actually work - work with applications that unconditionally use non-deprecated generic socket APIs - not crash when running untested code, because the code is actually tested Believe you me -- I am **very** aware of the painfulness inherent in applications trying ipv6, failing, not knowing they cannot use ipv6, and eventually timing out. I historically solved it with the sysctl because my ISP had broken/nonexistent ipv6, I continue to solve it with the sysctl when my network cannot handle ipv6, and I will solve it with the sysctl in the future when my network cannot handle ipv6. I do not "solve" ipv6 by building 0.05% of my applications with crash-prone APIs just because those APIs are also so old they predate ipv6. The new APIs support ipv4 quite well; use them. I'm sorry to hear you "broke" your own system through your own stubborn ignorance. At no point did Gentoo developers ever break your ipv4, you are imagining it. > After that I ran with USE="-* yada yada yada" for quite some time. > Currently, I'm less extreme, merely disabling a bunch of USE flags... > > USE="X apng ffmpeg introspection jpeg opengl openmp png truetype x264 x265 > xorg threads vala -acl -caps -clang -context -elogind -filecaps -graphite > -gstreamer -haptic -iptables -ipv6 -libav -llvm -manpager -pam -sendmail > -spirv -tofu -su -udisks -upower -wayland" > > The "szip" and "xinerama" USE flags seem to have disappeared. That's quite the bloated collection of enabled USE flags you have there -- lots of stuff that are much more bloated than ipv6, in fact. :) And really, you despise app-text/manpager with such ferocity that you have to set a global USE for it lest a second program come to add that USE? You hate /usr/bin/su so much that it's simply intolerable that util-linux might build it? But support for animated PNG files is too precious and dear to you, that feature you absolutely have to have. Oh no, the bloat! We will be buried under it! ... But using a tested ipv4 codepath instead of an untested ipv4 codepath is too much bloat for you, so you'd rather the crashes and the segfaults. Brilliant. > And who can forget the move from /dev/hda hdb hdc etc., to /dev/sda > sdb sdc etc.? Machine literally unbootable on the newly compiled > kernel. Fortunately, I always have "Production" and "Experimental" > kernels. The newly compiled kernel is always "Experimental". If things > go badly, I drop back to the "Production" kernel and try to figure out > what went wrong. Only after a long while do I execute my "promote" > script that copies "Experimental" over top of "Production". That's quite the long-term grudge you have there. "Who can forget" it indeed. ;) How about: pretty much everyone. What a tempest in a teapot. (Even if I took this rant seriously, that wasn't anything the Gentoo developers did. What's your proposed remediation, stay on the earlier editions of kernel 2.6 for another 15 years because "that newfangled 2.6 kernel man, that's just totally breaking my system"?) Your kernel testing and rotation management is boringly plebeian, as it's what approximately every other Gentoo system does by default without any configuration needed. -- Eli Schwartz OpenPGP_signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signa
Re: [gentoo-user] --depclean and openrc [Was: Wayland! Beware of!]
Hi Alan, On 25/9/24 04:53, Alan Mackenzie wrote: Perhaps. As already said, I would have been much less jumpy if the explanations which have come in this thread had been in a news item. As has been mentioned here this was not news-worthy. There is no decision to make or mandatory migration. Users on the desktop profile have simply transparently been rolled forward with a USE flag change as happens with some regularity. With this change involving wayland, users HAVE to make a decision, namely whether to set USE='-wayland', as both of us have done, or to accept the bloat of around 50 packages and many megabytes of things like qt and kde libraries. I think the necessary background information to make that decision was missing. Most users of a desktop profile already made their decision: to trust the distribution developers to make sane decisions on their behalf, and to deviate from the default when they have a need to. At the end of the day, unless your workstation is a literal 1990s potato you can spare the disk space and CPU time for Wayland if you're on a desktop profile. Users that really care about these things are encouraged to carefully inspect each of the USE flags changed on a world update (and ideally are familiar with Gentoo VCS) so that they can inform themselves when a change comes around. Cheers, Matt
Re: [gentoo-user] Wayland! Beware of!
On 24/9/24 19:46, Mitchell Dorrell wrote: Do you specifically use the closed-source drivers, though? Yes. In both the 'kernel-open' and regular flavours.
Re: What is what (Re: [gentoo-user] Wayland! Beware of!)
On 24/09/2024 19:32, k...@aspodata.se wrote: So should computer words be defined by non-professionals or thoose who knows ? Well, before computers, I thought servers worked in restaurants ... (And what the hell are thoose :-) One effect of letting non-professionals define words is the case when the poeple handling the collection of television licences had the opinion the a computer is a television set and hence people with a computer should pay for the right to view television. Well, given the number of times I've had to explain to professionals how they should be doing their *own* job, I really don't think they are the right people to be let loose on a dictionary ... your typical professional is paid to do, not to think, and boy do they make a point of NOT thinking ... (unless they're absolutely forced to, of course.) (Oh - and if you're talking about the UK licence fee, I've had my arguments with them about their ability to understand plain English - like the EXPLICIT wording on the licence "if you are living away from home eg as a student, you are covered by your home licence if your tv is not plugged in to the mains". So they demanded my student daughter have her own licence for her battery-powered tv!) At the end of the day, jargon is jargon. What matters is that we have a STANDARD. And whether you like it or not, the STANDARD says that X is using the words the wrong way round. Never mind that X pre-dates the standard. It's when people who should know better redefine words that things get hairy - like the computing professor who used "real time" when he meant "online" or "interactive". And got rather upset when I pointed out that "interactive" and "real time" were different and confusing the two could cause real harm. Or those plain idiots who insist on using the word "memory" and refuse to learn the difference between RAM and disk. At the end of the day, the meaning of any individual work is irrelevant. What matters is that we have a shared understanding, a STANDARD. The only thing that bothers me is those idiots who expect me to be a mind reader, and who expect me to realise when they use the word A, they actually want me to understand the word B. I don't care whether the word "server" means a restaurant waiter, some computer in a computer room somewhere, Xorg, or what. Just so long as I have a shared understanding with the person I'm talking to, and they don't expect me to mind-read because they can't be bothered to use the right word in the right context. Cheers, Wol
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: KDE Frameworks 6 window management
On Tuesday 24 September 2024 18:11:09 BST Michael wrote: > I can't claim to understand this, but happy with the result all the same. Best just to put it down to the vagaries of GTK2 in a plama environment. :) -- Regards, Peter.
Re: [gentoo-user] Wayland! Beware of!
On Mon, Sep 23, 2024 at 05:11:14PM -0400, Eli Schwartz wrote > Do you have that little faith in the Gentoo Developers, that you > think we'd make a USE flag change that made everyone's systems > suddenly break? > > :( I was around way back when "ipv6" became the default. I was using Firefox back then. Type in a URL; Firefox spins its wheels for 60 seconds in IPV6; it finally gives up and drops down to IPV4. This happened with every URL. After that I ran with USE="-* yada yada yada" for quite some time. Currently, I'm less extreme, merely disabling a bunch of USE flags... USE="X apng ffmpeg introspection jpeg opengl openmp png truetype x264 x265 xorg threads vala -acl -caps -clang -context -elogind -filecaps -graphite -gstreamer -haptic -iptables -ipv6 -libav -llvm -manpager -pam -sendmail -spirv -tofu -su -udisks -upower -wayland" The "szip" and "xinerama" USE flags seem to have disappeared. And who can forget the move from /dev/hda hdb hdc etc., to /dev/sda sdb sdc etc.? Machine literally unbootable on the newly compiled kernel. Fortunately, I always have "Production" and "Experimental" kernels. The newly compiled kernel is always "Experimental". If things go badly, I drop back to the "Production" kernel and try to figure out what went wrong. Only after a long while do I execute my "promote" script that copies "Experimental" over top of "Production". -- There are 2 types of people 1) Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data
Re: [gentoo-user] --depclean and openrc [Was: Wayland! Beware of!]
On 9/24/24 2:53 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote: >> Regarding the daemontools situation: > >> """ >> for example with --depclean preserving packages in system, as well as world >> """ > >> Is not a valid suggestion, since --depclean already does precisely this, >> but openrc isn't a package in system, it is a package that satisfies a >> recursive dependency of system. > > I think that's a rather obscure distinction. Do users actually perceive > virtual packages this way? I certainly don't. > >> As far as portage knows, it is already doing exactly what you want it >> to do, as described in the Package Manager Specification. > > My machine would have become unbootable long before I got around to > reading that spec. Indeed, you are correct, but I am not sure why you'd need to read the spec anyway. That is why I am correct too -- since I am pointing out that things like requesting specific portage / PMS behavior when interacting with virtual packages is not how one should perceive the end-user problem. (A virtual package is "just" a package with no installed files. How virtual packages are used is a matter of Gentoo policy, not a matter of how portage works. And PMS only mentions virtual packages once, and that one time is to state that the old way was removed from the spec and that new style virtuals are "just packages, and have no special treatment".) Since it is "just a package", the solution should lie in fixing ::gentoo, not in fixing the "emerge" command. That's what the re-opened bug is about. :) >> This would break a whole lot of use cases, as then one would no longer >> be able to change their system to suit themselves using the intended >> power of virtuals. > > What is wrong with # emerge --unmerge? I fail to see why that isn't > entirely satisfactory. Recommending an option that can break your system is a workaround, not a solution. Surely we want to end up in a good state of affairs, eventually? The emerge manpage warns you against using --unmerge for good reason. >> (It would also be impossible to install vim or emacs, then uninstall >> nano. For that matter, it would be impossible for an emacs user to >> install vim, try it out for a day, decide they don't like it, and >> uninstall vim. Vim would be there to stay: forever.) > > What about the users, who can't be all that rare, who wish all of nano, > vim, and emacs to be installed? They're application programs, not system > services. If you want all 3, then virtual/editor isn't an appropriate way to install a large collection of apps. Add them to your world file. virtual/editor doesn't restrict how many editors you have installed, it simply requires you have at least one. And it shouldn't require that any editors you install, cannot be uninstalled with --depclean -- Eli Schwartz OpenPGP_signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] --depclean and openrc [Was: Wayland! Beware of!]
Hello, Eli. On Tue, Sep 24, 2024 at 11:15:10 -0400, Eli Schwartz wrote: > On 9/24/24 7:30 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote: [ ] > >> It's possible you have installed another one of these packages too. If > >> you do, then virtual/service-manager will still be satisfied, and it > >> will allow you to depclean openrc. > > Yes, I have daemontools, needed as a component of a qmail variant. > Sigh, djbware strikes again. The fact that daemontools claims to be a > service manager, but is needed for random packages WITHOUT being used as > a service manager, is alarming and probably broken. Yes, we agree on this. > >> In theory, one should not have multiple init systems installed. And > >> openrc is the preferred satisfier, so if you use `emerge --depclean` it > >> will try to depclean the other package, not openrc. But you can depclean > >> openrc itself in that case, since portage doesn't know which init system > >> you intend to keep. > > If I had invoked --depclean without the -a (or -p) flag, my system would > > have had openrc removed, and it would have been unbootable. This is the > > sort of thing a new Gentoo user might do. > >> Even in this case it emits a warning: > >> !!! 'sys-apps/openrc' (virtual/service-manager) is part of your system > >> profile. > >> !!! Unmerging it may be damaging to your system. > > So, having your system made unbootable is opt-out rather than opt-in. > That is a severely unkind interpretation of what I said, and of what > portage does. I don't think somebody whose system would no longer boot would agree with you there. > Also, installing daemontools isn't the kind of thing a new Gentoo user > might do. Nor is installing qmail. I don't see why not. I was new to Gentoo (but knew qmail) when I first installed it on Gentoo. > >> to make sure you are fully aware that you intend to depclean a package > >> that *might* be the wrong one. > > The context of this discussion was an implication that the Gentoo > > maintainers wouldn't make a change "that made everyone's systems suddenly > > break". I submitted a bug report about --depclean back in the summer of > > 2021 (though I can't find that bug any more). I think it was closed as > > not-a-bug. > > There are several ways this could have been fixed, for example with > > --depclean preserving packages in system, as well as world. But it was > > regarded as not a bug. > > So I think it is fair to say that the Gentoo developers are content for > > some systems (in particular, mine) suddenly to break. I am thus somewhat > > sceptical about things in Gentoo which may be based on assumptions which > > don't hold in my system. The new +wayland USE flag kind of looked a bit > > like that to me. Actually, it wasn't, so I apologise for my opening > > post. > There is nothing sudden about this! No change has been made! According > to your explanation, the presence of daemontools on a system has always > made --depclean result in potentially making a system unbootable. > The Gentoo developers have taken no action to *make* this a problem. It > is the unfortunate combination of a number of moving parts that together > result in a historically present issue. > Inferring from here that Gentoo developers making an active profile > change with the intent of resulting in systems suddenly breaking while > dismissing concerns, is unreasonable, irrational, and paranoid. Sorry. Please note that when I raised the matter, I first described it as accidental, and I've never meant to imply it was anything else. The "content for some systems ... to break" was a direct reference to bug 803878 being summarily rejected in 2021. Anyhow, I think all misunderstandings with respect to that bug have now been resolved, and it is getting fixed. > Gentoo works better when users report issues and ask for them to be fixed. As I did with bug 803878. > Gentoo works better when users see a change and ask what the > ramifications are, e.g. "I was curious whether this would have a > negative effect on my X-only system", rather than immediately leaping to > "PSA!!! DANGER ALERT! CODE RED, ALL GENTOO USERS BEWARE!!!" Perhaps. As already said, I would have been much less jumpy if the explanations which have come in this thread had been in a news item. With this change involving wayland, users HAVE to make a decision, namely whether to set USE='-wayland', as both of us have done, or to accept the bloat of around 50 packages and many megabytes of things like qt and kde libraries. I think the necessary background information
What is what (Re: [gentoo-user] Wayland! Beware of!)
Wol: > On 23/09/2024 23:53, k...@aspodata.se wrote: > > It's just the pc hoard that thinks a server is some machine handling (that should be horde, not hoard even though it sounds funny...) > > databases, mail, files, printers or what > > In other words, X uses the words the other way round than most people - > what I said. > > Doesn't mean the majority are right! As far as I'm aware X got there > first, but is now swimming against the tide. It could be a case of one million flies cannot be wrong, shit is good.. but at the same time what people call a server is a machine running server programs, but the server itself is the program running. Without that program it is just a fancy box, I could use the very same box and use it as a desktop, and there is another false dicotomy, that there are desktops and servers, but the majority of all computers out ther are embedded. And many persons called (prior to laptops) the box a disk. So should computer words be defined by non-professionals or thoose who knows ? One effect of letting non-professionals define words is the case when the poeple handling the collection of television licences had the opinion the a computer is a television set and hence people with a computer should pay for the right to view television. So please stop spread misconcetions, or you might say, turn back the tide. Regards, /Karl Hammar
