[gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo Rules
Grant gmail.com> writes: > > Otherwise, I'm interested in what your definition of "forward" is. > How about anything? More than nothing. I'd agree with this. I think gentoo is having growing pains in directions the (gentoo) pundits are not really interested in. Take for example JAVA. IMHO java going open source is the biggest thing to hit linux for some time now. Eclipse is the defacto development environment of the future for many, many things. Sure as an old timer, I can use the CLI pretty well, but Eclipse Europa (3.3) has been out for a while and yet, nothing in Gentoo. I stumbled across a bug where they devs are thinking about deprecating JFFNMS becuse it is broken. JFFNMS is the best network management package available to opensource (period), yet it tumbles from dev to dev to obscurity? I offered to take over the maintenance of the package and web installation page, and was turned down (probable by some punk under the age of 20) As a 47 year old computer scientist, this the what turns off so many people form helping gentoo.. That said, if you have the stomach, becoming a dev or taking care of just a few niche packages would go a long way to improving gentoo. (btw) I have figured out the trivial things with jffnms and the install doc and play to just build an overlay and maintain my own how to page. I'm tired of the snotty attitude of some the the devs. They ask everyone to participate in bugday, but refuse to let somebody manage a package they want to deprecate? stupid, real stupid. that is exactly what kills gentoo, imho. James -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo Rules
On Fri, 14 Dec 2007 11:56:41 -0800, Grant wrote: >> > Lately I've been shopping around for other distros as well as looking >> > at *BSD. Gentoo development seems to have slowed way down and I like >> > things being improved as quickly as possible. FreeBSD is supposed to >> > be the closest relation, but even that won't do. I don't think there >> > is anything as satisfying as Gentoo out there. The concept is second >> > to none, the execution of that concept is fantastic, but it needs to >> > keep moving forward. What is the next step? Or should we keep >> > treading water? >> > >> > - Grant >> >> I love gentoo and can't settle for anything else. What can I do to >> make sure development doesn't stop? > > Let me in on that. What can I do too? There are plenty of things that can be done, depending on what kind of skills you bring with you. And please note that those skills need not be technical in order to help out. Just some things off the top of my head: * participate in the community (e.g. here or in the forums) to help others with Gentoo things * participate on bugs.gentoo.org by adding relevant comments to bugs, trying to fix bugs, providing new ebuilds or patches (and bugday is a good way to get started with that: http://bugday.gentoo.org/) * help out the documentation teams to maintain the current information or create new stuff and possible translate it * help out with Gentoo artwork * help out with the organization of Gentoo stuff such as events and PR * becoming a developer: http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/devrel/staffing- needs/ * that one thing that you can do really well but that I forgot to list here Feel free to drop me an email off-list if you'd like to discuss what you can do for Gentoo. Kind regards, Hans -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo Rules
On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 01:05:08 +0100, b.n. wrote: > Florian Philipp ha scritto: > >> Other things to improve? A better documentation on USE-flags. In my >> opinion every maintainer should provide as much information as possible >> on what exactly a USE-flag changes. At the moment it's the >> administrator's responsibility to find this out. Not really a good idea >> on production systems if you ask me ... > > +1 > > m. Good news then as a scheme for this has been proposed and partially implemented: http://blog.cardoe.com/archives/2007/11/19/use-flag-metadata/ It was decided in the last council meeting to keep this scheme: http:// www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/meeting-logs/20071213-summary.txt This only provides the information, it may take some time before user- facing tools (such as euse) expose this information, and obviously developers need to add the information. Kind regards, Hans -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo Rules
Grant gmail.com> writes: > Multiple great ideas have already been suggested in this thread. Is > this the first time they've been conceived and shared? Why hasn't > work begun on them? Why isn't work completed on them? Because living > costs money and Gentoo doesn't pay. > I've been in business for 7 years and I'd like to take a shot at > designing a system that would pay Gentoo developers to develop. Oh, I've taken this approach several times. My simple idea was to for an individual or company to solicit specific things they want, like a meta package for secure E-commerce. I'd 'Poney' up the funds and the greater community benefits. No takers. I'd throw a few thousand dollars at such a venture. I'm sure other would donate to. Anyone interested? (serious doubts among the dev ranks). Gentoo is a 'boys club' and any mention of using it formally to make money (for the greater gentoo community) sends the squirrels with their "nuts" running for cover. -- jaded after a few years, James -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo Rules
b.n. gmail.com> writes: > > I offered to take over the maintenance of the package and web installation > > page, and was turned down (probable by some punk under the age of 20) > Sad. Can you link the thread? I think that would be counter productive. It's the 'culture of gentoo' that encourages this condescending attitude from the (document and other) devs. Lots of folks with skills would help, if the process of helping becomes lightweight or unencumbered. This sort of help could be outside of portage so anyone using such packages would be warned ahead of time that these packages are not officially sanctioned by the 'gentoo devs'. Maybe just a simple way to aggregate overlays and a place where others are encouraged to develop, use and maintain ebuilds and docs. Then the ordained among the gentoo devs could merely mine the repository for new additions to what they care to sanction. Right now, things are very discriminatory, discouraging others from participation and after awhile, folks leave or ignore the greater gentoo community. It's not the first time that there have been acrimony in the ranks of the gentoo devs.. imho, James -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo Rules
James ha scritto: > I offered to take over the maintenance of the package and web installation > page, and was turned down (probable by some punk under the age of 20) > Sad. Can you link the thread? m. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo Rules
> >> > Lately I've been shopping around for other distros as well as looking > >> > at *BSD. Gentoo development seems to have slowed way down and I like > >> > things being improved as quickly as possible. FreeBSD is supposed to > >> > be the closest relation, but even that won't do. I don't think there > >> > is anything as satisfying as Gentoo out there. The concept is second > >> > to none, the execution of that concept is fantastic, but it needs to > >> > keep moving forward. What is the next step? Or should we keep > >> > treading water? > >> > > >> > - Grant > >> > >> I love gentoo and can't settle for anything else. What can I do to > >> make sure development doesn't stop? > > > > Let me in on that. What can I do too? > > There are plenty of things that can be done, depending on what kind of > skills you bring with you. And please note that those skills need not be > technical in order to help out. Just some things off the top of my head: > > * participate in the community (e.g. here or in the forums) to help > others with Gentoo things > * participate on bugs.gentoo.org by adding relevant comments to bugs, > trying to fix bugs, providing new ebuilds or patches (and bugday is a > good way to get started with that: http://bugday.gentoo.org/) > * help out the documentation teams to maintain the current information or > create new stuff and possible translate it > * help out with Gentoo artwork > * help out with the organization of Gentoo stuff such as events and PR > * becoming a developer: http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/devrel/staffing- > needs/ > * that one thing that you can do really well but that I forgot to list > here What keeps an army of developers from putting in more time on a cool project? I'll bet there are many Gentoo developers who would rather work on Gentoo than most other things. These developers who pretty much *are* Gentoo aren't able to focus on Gentoo because living costs money and Gentoo doesn't pay. Multiple great ideas have already been suggested in this thread. Is this the first time they've been conceived and shared? Why hasn't work begun on them? Why isn't work completed on them? Because living costs money and Gentoo doesn't pay. I've been in business for 7 years and I'd like to take a shot at designing a system that would pay Gentoo developers to develop. Flame me. I can take it. Long live Gentoo. - Grant -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo Rules
> > Multiple great ideas have already been suggested in this thread. Is > > this the first time they've been conceived and shared? Why hasn't > > work begun on them? Why isn't work completed on them? Because living > > costs money and Gentoo doesn't pay. > > > I've been in business for 7 years and I'd like to take a shot at > > designing a system that would pay Gentoo developers to develop. > > > Oh, I've taken this approach several times. My simple idea was to for > an individual or company to solicit specific things they want, > like a meta package for secure E-commerce. I'd 'Poney' up the funds and > the greater community benefits. > > > No takers. I'd throw a few thousand dollars at such a venture. > I'm sure other would donate to. Anyone interested? (serious doubts > among the dev ranks). > > > Gentoo is a 'boys club' and any mention of using it formally to make money > (for the greater gentoo community) sends the squirrels with their "nuts" > running for cover. How about this. You create an account on the Program's website and choose which herd or project you want to support. Your selection can be changed as often as you like, and you can view a report corresponding herds and historical support. The Program's maintainers set up affiliate accounts with as many websites as possible. Amazon, Buy.com, etc. When you want to make a purchase from one of these sites, you first log into your account and use the provided affiliate link. The Program distributes the associated affiliate payouts as you have specified. Each affiliate payout and support payout would be trackable on the website to ensure integrity. Of course there are details to be worked out, but I can't think of anything that would block the project. I've made three purchases from Amazon in the last week or two. Those should have benefited the portage devs. This is very simple and, of course, applicable to a lot more than Gentoo, which makes me wonder if it has already been implemented somewhere. - Grant -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo Rules
> > > Multiple great ideas have already been suggested in this thread. Is > > > this the first time they've been conceived and shared? Why hasn't > > > work begun on them? Why isn't work completed on them? Because living > > > costs money and Gentoo doesn't pay. > > > > > I've been in business for 7 years and I'd like to take a shot at > > > designing a system that would pay Gentoo developers to develop. > > > > > > Oh, I've taken this approach several times. My simple idea was to for > > an individual or company to solicit specific things they want, > > like a meta package for secure E-commerce. I'd 'Poney' up the funds and > > the greater community benefits. > > > > > > No takers. I'd throw a few thousand dollars at such a venture. > > I'm sure other would donate to. Anyone interested? (serious doubts > > among the dev ranks). > > > > > > Gentoo is a 'boys club' and any mention of using it formally to make money > > (for the greater gentoo community) sends the squirrels with their "nuts" > > running for cover. > > How about this. > > You create an account on the Program's website and choose which herd > or project you want to support. Your selection can be changed as > often as you like, and you can view a report corresponding herds and > historical support. > > The Program's maintainers set up affiliate accounts with as many > websites as possible. Amazon, Buy.com, etc. When you want to make a > purchase from one of these sites, you first log into your account and > use the provided affiliate link. The Program distributes the > associated affiliate payouts as you have specified. Each affiliate > payout and support payout would be trackable on the website to ensure > integrity. > > Of course there are details to be worked out, but I can't think of > anything that would block the project. > > I've made three purchases from Amazon in the last week or two. Those > should have benefited the portage devs. > > This is very simple and, of course, applicable to a lot more than > Gentoo, which makes me wonder if it has already been implemented > somewhere. > > - Grant What do you think fellows? Good idea? Bad idea? Am I the only one who thinks monetary support would stimulate Gentoo development? - Grant -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo Rules
On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 16:31:58 -0800 Grant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Multiple great ideas have already been suggested in this > > > > thread. Is this the first time they've been conceived and > > > > shared? Why hasn't work begun on them? Why isn't work > > > > completed on them? Because living costs money and Gentoo > > > > doesn't pay. > > > > > > > I've been in business for 7 years and I'd like to take a shot at > > > > designing a system that would pay Gentoo developers to develop. > > > > > > > > > Oh, I've taken this approach several times. My simple idea was to > > > for an individual or company to solicit specific things they want, > > > like a meta package for secure E-commerce. I'd 'Poney' up the > > > funds and the greater community benefits. > > > > > > > > > No takers. I'd throw a few thousand dollars at such a venture. > > > I'm sure other would donate to. Anyone interested? (serious > > > doubts among the dev ranks). > > > > > > > > > Gentoo is a 'boys club' and any mention of using it formally to > > > make money (for the greater gentoo community) sends the squirrels > > > with their "nuts" running for cover. > > > > How about this. > > > > You create an account on the Program's website and choose which herd > > or project you want to support. Your selection can be changed as > > often as you like, and you can view a report corresponding herds and > > historical support. > > > > The Program's maintainers set up affiliate accounts with as many > > websites as possible. Amazon, Buy.com, etc. When you want to make > > a purchase from one of these sites, you first log into your account > > and use the provided affiliate link. The Program distributes the > > associated affiliate payouts as you have specified. Each affiliate > > payout and support payout would be trackable on the website to > > ensure integrity. > > > > Of course there are details to be worked out, but I can't think of > > anything that would block the project. > > > > I've made three purchases from Amazon in the last week or two. > > Those should have benefited the portage devs. > > > > This is very simple and, of course, applicable to a lot more than > > Gentoo, which makes me wonder if it has already been implemented > > somewhere. > > > > - Grant > > What do you think fellows? Good idea? Bad idea? Am I the only one > who thinks monetary support would stimulate Gentoo development? > > - Grant I think this is a good idea, and it appears that Amazon.com already supports that kind of thing from what you're saying here.l I don't know if money would help the project, but I do know that personally I don't have much time to devote to my hobbies like Gentoo, but have a lot more time for work than pleasure. So, for some of the development community, money might really help free up some resources. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo Rules
> > > > > Multiple great ideas have already been suggested in this > > > > > thread. Is this the first time they've been conceived and > > > > > shared? Why hasn't work begun on them? Why isn't work > > > > > completed on them? Because living costs money and Gentoo > > > > > doesn't pay. > > > > > > > > > I've been in business for 7 years and I'd like to take a shot at > > > > > designing a system that would pay Gentoo developers to develop. > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh, I've taken this approach several times. My simple idea was to > > > > for an individual or company to solicit specific things they want, > > > > like a meta package for secure E-commerce. I'd 'Poney' up the > > > > funds and the greater community benefits. > > > > > > > > > > > > No takers. I'd throw a few thousand dollars at such a venture. > > > > I'm sure other would donate to. Anyone interested? (serious > > > > doubts among the dev ranks). > > > > > > > > > > > > Gentoo is a 'boys club' and any mention of using it formally to > > > > make money (for the greater gentoo community) sends the squirrels > > > > with their "nuts" running for cover. > > > > > > How about this. > > > > > > You create an account on the Program's website and choose which herd > > > or project you want to support. Your selection can be changed as > > > often as you like, and you can view a report corresponding herds and > > > historical support. > > > > > > The Program's maintainers set up affiliate accounts with as many > > > websites as possible. Amazon, Buy.com, etc. When you want to make > > > a purchase from one of these sites, you first log into your account > > > and use the provided affiliate link. The Program distributes the > > > associated affiliate payouts as you have specified. Each affiliate > > > payout and support payout would be trackable on the website to > > > ensure integrity. > > > > > > Of course there are details to be worked out, but I can't think of > > > anything that would block the project. > > > > > > I've made three purchases from Amazon in the last week or two. > > > Those should have benefited the portage devs. > > > > > > This is very simple and, of course, applicable to a lot more than > > > Gentoo, which makes me wonder if it has already been implemented > > > somewhere. > > > > > > - Grant > > > > What do you think fellows? Good idea? Bad idea? Am I the only one > > who thinks monetary support would stimulate Gentoo development? > > > > - Grant > > I think this is a good idea, and it appears that Amazon.com already > supports that kind of thing from what you're saying here.l I don't > know if money would help the project, but I do know that personally I > don't have much time to devote to my hobbies like Gentoo, but have a > lot more time for work than pleasure. So, for some of the development > community, money might really help free up some resources. That's what I'm thinking Dan. I emailed Amazon about this yesterday and we'll see what they say. If it's OK, I'm going to set up an affiliate account, pick a beneficiary, and try to get people to buy via the link right away. That's the quick start. Does anyone have a web server they would lend me a page of? I have one but it hosts my business website and I don't want it to become the target of super-savvy folk. ftp, ssh, even copy-paste would be greatly appreciated. Just one page. - Grant -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo Rules
On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 10:09:09 -0800 Grant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Does anyone have a web server they would lend me a page of? I have > one but it hosts my business website and I don't want it to become the > target of super-savvy folk. ftp, ssh, even copy-paste would be > greatly appreciated. Just one page. Absolutely, if you don't mind it being on my home webserver. I am even getting a little bandwith upgrade at the end of the month. I will send you an email off-list. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
