[gentoo-user] Bootloader hangs without a keyboard

[Marc Joliet]

Hi list

I have a bit of a weird issue.  I recently acquired a used server (Fujitsu 
Primergy TX140 S1) via a friend of mine.  I have Gentoo installed on it now 
and overall it works fine save for one perplexing issue [0]: The bootloader 
hangs when booting without a keyboard attached.  I tried it with both GRUB and 
systemd-boot (which works nicely in combination with kernel-install); both 
only work with a keyboard attached.  GRUB hangs when the countdown starts, 
while systemd-boot hangs when the cursor first appears, but before the boot 
entries are listed.  In both cases the cursor freezes.

I'm curious if anybody has seen this issue before and/or has any idea how to 
solve it.  The only resources I could find online that seem related are [1] 
(different OS, no resolution, hints at BIOS), [2] (which provides a potential 
solution, though I'm not sure whether I can actually implement it), and [3] 
(the patch didn't help).  There was also a related systemd bug at [4].

I updated the BIOS, but that helped as much as anticipated, that is, not at 
all (it was at the penultimate version already).  I also tried unplugging the 
display in case the BIOS was expecting a keyboard then.

Any help is much appreciated.

[0] Well, there's a second one, too, but I'll have to see if it shows up 
again.
[1] 
https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/66696/nas4free-freebsd-wont-make-it-past-bootloader-without-keyboard
[2] 
https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-newbie-8/os-cannot-be-loaded-without-keyboard-because-of-grub-805350/
[3] https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/44923
[4] https://github.com/systemd/systemd/pull/3735

Greetings
-- 
Marc Joliet
--
"People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know we
don't" - Bjarne Stroustrup


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Re: [gentoo-user] Bootloader hangs without a keyboard

[mad.scientist.at.large]

The obvious solution is to leave a keyboard attached, OR make the computer 
think so with one of the adapters that let you use ps/2 peripherals on a 
machine that only has usb.  They always show up as a keyboard and mouse to the 
computer, even if only the adapter is plugged in.  They have them on ebay etc., 
from $1 up.
mad.scientist.at.large (a good madscientist)
--
God bless the rich, the greedy and the corrupt politicians they have put into 
office.   God bless them for helping me do the right thing by giving the rich 
my little pile of cash.  After all, the rich know what to do with money.


7. Apr 2018 17:18 by mar...@gmx.de :


> Hi list
>
> I have a bit of a weird issue.  I recently acquired a used server (Fujitsu 
> Primergy TX140 S1) via a friend of mine.  I have Gentoo installed on it now 
> and overall it works fine save for one perplexing issue [0]: The bootloader 
> hangs when booting without a keyboard attached.  I tried it with both GRUB 
> and 
> systemd-boot (which works nicely in combination with kernel-install); both 
> only work with a keyboard attached.  GRUB hangs when the countdown starts, 
> while systemd-boot hangs when the cursor first appears, but before the boot 
> entries are listed.  In both cases the cursor freezes.
>
> I'm curious if anybody has seen this issue before and/or has any idea how to 
> solve it.  The only resources I could find online that seem related are [1] 
> (different OS, no resolution, hints at BIOS), [2] (which provides a potential 
> solution, though I'm not sure whether I can actually implement it), and [3] 
> (the patch didn't help).  There was also a related systemd bug at [4].
>
> I updated the BIOS, but that helped as much as anticipated, that is, not at 
> all (it was at the penultimate version already).  I also tried unplugging the 
> display in case the BIOS was expecting a keyboard then.
>
> Any help is much appreciated.
>
> [0] Well, there's a second one, too, but I'll have to see if it shows up 
> again.
> [1] > 
> https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/66696/nas4free-freebsd-wont-make-it-past-bootloader-without-keyboard
>  
> 
> [2] > 
> https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-newbie-8/os-cannot-be-loaded-without-keyboard-because-of-grub-805350
>  
> 
> [3] > https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/44923 
> 
> [4] > https://github.com/systemd/systemd/pull/3735 
> 
>
> Greetings
> -- 
> Marc Joliet
> --
> "People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know we
> don't" - Bjarne Stroustrup

Re: [gentoo-user] Bootloader hangs without a keyboard

[Wols Lists]

On 08/04/2018 00:18, Marc Joliet wrote:

Hi list

I have a bit of a weird issue.  I recently acquired a used server (Fujitsu
Primergy TX140 S1) via a friend of mine.  I have Gentoo installed on it now
and overall it works fine save for one perplexing issue [0]: The bootloader
hangs when booting without a keyboard attached.  I tried it with both GRUB and
systemd-boot (which works nicely in combination with kernel-install); both
only work with a keyboard attached.  GRUB hangs when the countdown starts,
while systemd-boot hangs when the cursor first appears, but before the boot
entries are listed.  In both cases the cursor freezes.


I can't help with a solution, but this is actually quite a common 
problem. I remember ages ago copious reports of computer rooms with 
these boxes that share one keyboard, mouse and screen amongst several 
computers, and there were loads of complaints about systems refusing to 
boot.


Go in ti the bios settings, and see if there's something about 
keyboards. I really can't remember but there was something about a 
missing keyboard triggering a bios boot error - cue all the jokes about 
"keyboard missing, press F1 to continue". Actually, if you search on 
that message, you might find something ...


Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] Bootloader hangs without a keyboard

[Marc Joliet]

Am Sonntag, 8. April 2018, 02:18:21 CEST schrieb 
mad.scientist.at.la...@tutanota.com:
> The obvious solution is to leave a keyboard attached, OR make the computer
> think so with one of the adapters that let you use ps/2 peripherals on a
> machine that only has usb.  They always show up as a keyboard and mouse to
> the computer, even if only the adapter is plugged in.  They have them on
> ebay etc., from $1 up.

Yeah, I did hear about those while researching the problem (forgot to mention, 
sorry), but thanks for pointing out how cheap they are.  I'll probably go that 
route if I find no other solution, though I've also considered just using it 
as a desktop, since it's more powerful than my current one, but was also 
looking forward to a home server with more disk space :-/ .

-- 
Marc Joliet
--
"People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know we
don't" - Bjarne Stroustrup


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Re: [gentoo-user] Bootloader hangs without a keyboard

[Marc Joliet]

Am Sonntag, 8. April 2018, 13:35:02 CEST schrieb Wols Lists:
> On 08/04/2018 00:18, Marc Joliet wrote:
> > Hi list
> > 
> > I have a bit of a weird issue.  I recently acquired a used server (Fujitsu
> > Primergy TX140 S1) via a friend of mine.  I have Gentoo installed on it
> > now
> > and overall it works fine save for one perplexing issue [0]: The
> > bootloader
> > hangs when booting without a keyboard attached.  I tried it with both GRUB
> > and systemd-boot (which works nicely in combination with kernel-install);
> > both only work with a keyboard attached.  GRUB hangs when the countdown
> > starts, while systemd-boot hangs when the cursor first appears, but
> > before the boot entries are listed.  In both cases the cursor freezes.
> 
> I can't help with a solution, but this is actually quite a common
> problem. I remember ages ago copious reports of computer rooms with
> these boxes that share one keyboard, mouse and screen amongst several
> computers, and there were loads of complaints about systems refusing to
> boot.

I can't help but wonder if these kinds of servers only tested in setups with 
KVM switches.  One thing I kept reading about was how people have several 
servers hooked up to these, so maybe these types of servers often simply 
aren't tested without a keyboard.

> Go in ti the bios settings, and see if there's something about
> keyboards. I really can't remember but there was something about a
> missing keyboard triggering a bios boot error - cue all the jokes about
> "keyboard missing, press F1 to continue". Actually, if you search on
> that message, you might find something ...

Yeah, that was the first thing I tried, but there are no such settings.  
Though I never thought to try disabling the USB ports.

*tries it out now*

Nope, I had set it to "Disable all unused ports", but that didn't change 
anything.  Neither did deactivating the serial port.  That makes the issue 
much weirder in my eyes, since it's clearly intended to be able to boot the 
server without any USB devices attached.

> Cheers,
> Wol

Greetings
-- 
Marc Joliet
--
"People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know we
don't" - Bjarne Stroustrup


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Re: [gentoo-user] Bootloader hangs without a keyboard

[Marc Joliet]

Am Sonntag, 8. April 2018, 14:11:57 CEST schrieb Marc Joliet:
> Yeah, I did hear about those while researching the problem (forgot to
> mention, sorry), but thanks for pointing out how cheap they are.

Ugh, I misread, yeah, of course those exist and are cheap (sadly I only have 
USB->PS/2 adapters).  I thought I had read about so-called keyboard 
simulators, which I interpreted to mean a USB dongle that pretends to be an 
input device, but ATM I cannot find any evidence of them actually existing, so 
maybe I misremembered/misunderstood (however, I did find https://www.ico.de/
telejet-keyboard-simulator-tks-usb--tksu, which lets you send specific 
keypresses remotely, but it's a tad overkill for my purposes).

-- 
Marc Joliet
--
"People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know we
don't" - Bjarne Stroustrup


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Re: [gentoo-user] Bootloader hangs without a keyboard

[Neil Bothwick]

On Sun, 08 Apr 2018 15:18:21 +0200, Marc Joliet wrote:

> > Yeah, I did hear about those while researching the problem (forgot to
> > mention, sorry), but thanks for pointing out how cheap they are.  
> 
> Ugh, I misread, yeah, of course those exist and are cheap (sadly I only
> have USB->PS/2 adapters).  I thought I had read about so-called
> keyboard simulators, which I interpreted to mean a USB dongle that
> pretends to be an input device, but ATM I cannot find any evidence of
> them actually existing,

Use the dongle from a wireless keyboard.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

WITLAG: The delay between delivery and comprehension of a joke.


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Re: [gentoo-user] Bootloader hangs without a keyboard

[Marc Joliet]

Am Sonntag, 8. April 2018, 16:49:55 CEST schrieb Neil Bothwick:
> On Sun, 08 Apr 2018 15:18:21 +0200, Marc Joliet wrote:
> > > Yeah, I did hear about those while researching the problem (forgot to
> > > mention, sorry), but thanks for pointing out how cheap they are.
> > 
> > Ugh, I misread, yeah, of course those exist and are cheap (sadly I only
> > have USB->PS/2 adapters).  I thought I had read about so-called
> > keyboard simulators, which I interpreted to mean a USB dongle that
> > pretends to be an input device, but ATM I cannot find any evidence of
> > them actually existing,
> 
> Use the dongle from a wireless keyboard.

That's also a good idea, I wasn't sure if you could buy those without a 
keyboard and hadn't thought to check.  Funnily enough, this is exactly what 
I've been doing so far (I have a Logitech wireless keyboard with a "unifying" 
receiver).

-- 
Marc Joliet
--
"People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know we
don't" - Bjarne Stroustrup


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Re: [gentoo-user] Bootloader hangs without a keyboard

[R0b0t1]

On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 10:45 AM, Marc Joliet  wrote:
> Am Sonntag, 8. April 2018, 16:49:55 CEST schrieb Neil Bothwick:
>> On Sun, 08 Apr 2018 15:18:21 +0200, Marc Joliet wrote:
>> > > Yeah, I did hear about those while researching the problem (forgot to
>> > > mention, sorry), but thanks for pointing out how cheap they are.
>> >
>> > Ugh, I misread, yeah, of course those exist and are cheap (sadly I only
>> > have USB->PS/2 adapters).  I thought I had read about so-called
>> > keyboard simulators, which I interpreted to mean a USB dongle that
>> > pretends to be an input device, but ATM I cannot find any evidence of
>> > them actually existing,
>>
>> Use the dongle from a wireless keyboard.
>
> That's also a good idea, I wasn't sure if you could buy those without a
> keyboard and hadn't thought to check.  Funnily enough, this is exactly what
> I've been doing so far (I have a Logitech wireless keyboard with a "unifying"
> receiver).
>

You can buy Logitech unifying receivers for $9 or so, but it might be
cheaper to buy offbrand keyboard/receiver sets.

Re: [gentoo-user] Bootloader hangs without a keyboard

[Neil Bothwick]

On Sun, 8 Apr 2018 10:47:06 -0500, R0b0t1 wrote:

> >> Use the dongle from a wireless keyboard.  
> >
> > That's also a good idea, I wasn't sure if you could buy those without
> > a keyboard and hadn't thought to check.  Funnily enough, this is
> > exactly what I've been doing so far (I have a Logitech wireless
> > keyboard with a "unifying" receiver).
> >  
> 
> You can buy Logitech unifying receivers for $9 or so, but it might be
> cheaper to buy offbrand keyboard/receiver sets.

Or a wireless remote control, those also appear as HID devices.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Eagles may soar, but Wombles don't get sucked into jet engines


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Re: [gentoo-user] Bootloader hangs without a keyboard

[R0b0t1]

On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 1:04 PM, Neil Bothwick  wrote:
> On Sun, 8 Apr 2018 10:47:06 -0500, R0b0t1 wrote:
>
>> >> Use the dongle from a wireless keyboard.
>> >
>> > That's also a good idea, I wasn't sure if you could buy those without
>> > a keyboard and hadn't thought to check.  Funnily enough, this is
>> > exactly what I've been doing so far (I have a Logitech wireless
>> > keyboard with a "unifying" receiver).
>> >
>>
>> You can buy Logitech unifying receivers for $9 or so, but it might be
>> cheaper to buy offbrand keyboard/receiver sets.
>
> Or a wireless remote control, those also appear as HID devices.
>

But there is a specific HID type for "boot keyboard" which is what the
EFI or BIOS firmware looks for when starting. The report is structured
so that the firmware does not need to implement the full USB standard.
Some board firmware is not implemented properly and does not parse the
reports properly, which means some keyboards do not work with all
motherboards.

The other reason I bring this up is because reading about EFI, it
seems the system can demand boot devices are present. I have no idea
why, but what OP is seeing may be intended behavior.

Cheers,
 R0b0t1

Re: [gentoo-user] Bootloader hangs without a keyboard

[Walter Dnes]

  Is there an entry in BIOS setup for "Halt bootup or error" or the
opposite, "Continue bootup on error"?  Try setting that if it exists.
That won't fix the root problem, but may ignore it and boot up
successfully.

-- 
Walter Dnes 
I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications

Re: [gentoo-user] Bootloader hangs without a keyboard

[Marc Joliet]

Am Montag, 9. April 2018, 06:18:10 CEST schrieb Walter Dnes:
>   Is there an entry in BIOS setup for "Halt bootup or error" or the
> opposite, "Continue bootup on error"?  Try setting that if it exists.
> That won't fix the root problem, but may ignore it and boot up
> successfully.

It's already set to continue, thanks anyway.  (But wouldn't that setting only 
influence whether I got past the BIOS or not?)

-- 
Marc Joliet
--
"People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know we
don't" - Bjarne Stroustrup


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