Re: [gentoo-user] Re: i486
On Friday 26 November 2010 06:07:58 sam new wrote: Thanks all, I have a question , when we build the system, always use host client to build the toolchain , then GCC Glibc ...kernel some unity ... from source ,but where the frist system come from ,does it build using the Assembly language or machine language? I mean just give you X86 hardware and power , no OS, no livd cd . I am afraid it is out of this topic.but it always puzzled me :-) You need a LiveCD and a *good* reason (unless you're just playing) to build a system from stage 1. Have a read here: http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-830228-start-0.html -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: i486
thanks mick ,that not my meaning, it is not about how to install gentoo On 26 November 2010 16:58, Mick michaelkintz...@gmail.com wrote: On Friday 26 November 2010 06:07:58 sam new wrote: Thanks all, I have a question , when we build the system, always use host client to build the toolchain , then GCC Glibc ...kernel some unity ... from source ,but where the frist system come from ,does it build using the Assembly language or machine language? I mean just give you X86 hardware and power , no OS, no livd cd . I am afraid it is out of this topic.but it always puzzled me :-) You need a LiveCD and a *good* reason (unless you're just playing) to build a system from stage 1. Have a read here: http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-830228-start-0.html -- Regards, Mick
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: i486
thanks mick ,I am afraid that is not my meaning, it is not about how to install gentoo . where the frist system come from ,does it build using the Assembly language or machine language? I mean just give you X86 hardware and power , no OS, no livd cd . how to build On 26 November 2010 16:58, Mick michaelkintz...@gmail.com wrote: On Friday 26 November 2010 06:07:58 sam new wrote: Thanks all, I have a question , when we build the system, always use host client to build the toolchain , then GCC Glibc ...kernel some unity ... from source ,but where the frist system come from ,does it build using the Assembly language or machine language? I mean just give you X86 hardware and power , no OS, no livd cd . I am afraid it is out of this topic.but it always puzzled me :-) You need a LiveCD and a *good* reason (unless you're just playing) to build a system from stage 1. Have a read here: http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-830228-start-0.html -- Regards, Mick
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: i486
I have try LFS (linux from scratch) ,and install gentoo use stage3 .Does the stage1 installs like that,Compile the toolchain and build the system? On 24 November 2010 23:58, David W Noon dwn...@ntlworld.com wrote: On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 08:10:01 +0100, sam new wrote about Re: [gentoo-user] Re: i486: still do stage 1 installs？ sounds good ,any guide or tutorial? If you need a tutorial then you aren't ready for doing a stage 1. Do a few stage 3 installs first and you will get the hang of what goes into those larger tarballs, then you'll be able to build that yourself starting from a stage 1. -- Regards, Dave [RLU #314465] *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* dwn...@ntlworld.com (David W Noon) *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: i486
On Thu, 25 Nov 2010 11:10:02 +0100, sam new wrote about Re: [gentoo-user] Re: i486: I have try LFS (linux from scratch) ,and install gentoo use stage3 .Does the stage1 installs like that,Compile the toolchain and build the system? Yes, You have to use the bootstrap compiler to build GCC, even before you build a kernel or glibc. It's long-winded and fairly technically demanding. -- Regards, Dave [RLU #314465] *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* dwn...@ntlworld.com (David W Noon) *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: i486
On Thursday 25 November 2010 17:40:08 David W Noon wrote: On Thu, 25 Nov 2010 11:10:02 +0100, sam new wrote about Re: [gentoo-user] Re: i486: I have try LFS (linux from scratch) ,and install gentoo use stage3 .Does the stage1 installs like that,Compile the toolchain and build the system? Yes, You have to use the bootstrap compiler to build GCC, even before you build a kernel or glibc. It's long-winded and fairly technically demanding. I recall building a few systems in the early days of gentoo. The funny thing is that other than burning and booting Knoppix a couple of times I had no Linux knowledge or experience. However, the gentoo handbook held my hand step by step and all these years later I'm still here. So, if I could do it, I wouldn't really call it technically demanding. ;-) I guess the OP could use something like this, unless there's a better way documented somewhere else: http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/faq.xml#stage12 -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: i486
Thanks all, I have a question , when we build the system, always use host client to build the toolchain , then GCC Glibc ...kernel some unity ... from source ,but where the frist system come from ,does it build using the Assembly language or machine language? I mean just give you X86 hardware and power , no OS, no livd cd . I am afraid it is out of this topic.but it always puzzled me :-) On 26 November 2010 03:47, Mick michaelkintz...@gmail.com wrote: On Thursday 25 November 2010 17:40:08 David W Noon wrote: On Thu, 25 Nov 2010 11:10:02 +0100, sam new wrote about Re: [gentoo-user] Re: i486: I have try LFS (linux from scratch) ,and install gentoo use stage3 .Does the stage1 installs like that,Compile the toolchain and build the system? Yes, You have to use the bootstrap compiler to build GCC, even before you build a kernel or glibc. It's long-winded and fairly technically demanding. I recall building a few systems in the early days of gentoo. The funny thing is that other than burning and booting Knoppix a couple of times I had no Linux knowledge or experience. However, the gentoo handbook held my hand step by step and all these years later I'm still here. So, if I could do it, I wouldn't really call it technically demanding. ;-) I guess the OP could use something like this, unless there's a better way documented somewhere else: http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/faq.xml#stage12 -- Regards, Mick
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: i486
On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 14:06:44 +0800, sam new wrote: still do stage 1 installs？ sounds good ,any guide or tutorial? Yes, don't do it :) -- Neil Bothwick Anyone able to feel pain is trainable. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: i486
On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 22:53:02 +, David W Noon wrote: Apparently it's not quite a full i686. The research I did at the time indicated that using anything higher than i486 was asking for problems. I am a little surprised by that. I ran a couple of K6-3 boxes for some few years using i586. As near as I could tell, those processors only lacked CMOV instructions when compared with i686. I find it hard to envisage the Geode lacking any i586 feature, given that it has MMX instructions, CMOV instructions, the CMPXCHG8B instruction and a TSC register -- all of those are way beyond i486. AFAIR is does implement the full i586 set, but some of it badly, so i486 gives better performance... but don't ask me to do an emerge -e world on that box to check it out b:( -- Neil Bothwick Never sleep with anyone crazier than yourself. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: i486
On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 22:45:59 +, David W Noon wrote: This clearly will not work with a k6 processor or the Geode LX. Recall, I want one set of settings for the make.conf file That part of my follow-up was intended for Neil Bothwick, as I was replying to a message of his. In which I stated those flags were from a Geode LX. -- Neil Bothwick Procedure: (n.) a method of performing a program sub-task in an inefficient way by extensively using the stack instead of a GOTO. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: i486
On Wednesday 24 November 2010 11:23:48 Neil Bothwick wrote: On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 22:53:02 +, David W Noon wrote: Apparently it's not quite a full i686. The research I did at the time indicated that using anything higher than i486 was asking for problems. I am a little surprised by that. I ran a couple of K6-3 boxes for some few years using i586. As near as I could tell, those processors only lacked CMOV instructions when compared with i686. I find it hard to envisage the Geode lacking any i586 feature, given that it has MMX instructions, CMOV instructions, the CMPXCHG8B instruction and a TSC register -- all of those are way beyond i486. AFAIR is does implement the full i586 set, but some of it badly, so i486 gives better performance... but don't ask me to do an emerge -e world on that box to check it out b:( Tempting but no, I won't make you do it ;) -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: i486
On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 11:52:19 + (UTC), James wrote: Take a look here: http://www.twam.info/hardware/chost-i586-vs-i486-on-amd-geode-lx So 486 is equal to 586 on most tests but better on some and worse on none. As far as the Geode LX is concerned, that makes the choice a no-brainer. On the other hand, your other systems may benefit more from i586 and the use you put the Geode to may not be affected by the cases where the i586 is worse. It's a compromise, and only you know enough to make the choice. The CHOST is set in the stage 3 file, you must use the one that matches your make.conf settings. Changing CHOST after installation is non-trivial. So this is what you are suggesting?: CHOST=i486-pc-linux-gnu CFLAGS=-Os -march=i586 -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer It's the opposite of what I suggested. Either use i486 or i586, not a mixture. Recall I have p1,p2,p3 and p4, as well as geode lx based systems. But if you want a lowest common denominator, it means building for 486. -- Neil Bothwick I don't know what makes you tick but I wish it was a time bomb. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: i486
On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 08:10:01 +0100, sam new wrote about Re: [gentoo-user] Re: i486: still do stage 1 installs？ sounds good ,any guide or tutorial? If you need a tutorial then you aren't ready for doing a stage 1. Do a few stage 3 installs first and you will get the hang of what goes into those larger tarballs, then you'll be able to build that yourself starting from a stage 1. -- Regards, Dave [RLU #314465] *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* dwn...@ntlworld.com (David W Noon) *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: i486
On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 16:09:59 + (UTC), James wrote:
(I forgot about the geode board.) The Geode is
one I'm not too sure about.
My Viglen MPC-L, which I think is a Geode LX, uses
CFLAGS=-O2 -march=geode -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer
CXXFLAGS=${CFLAGS}
CHOST=i486-pc-linux-gnu
% cat /proc/cpuinfo
processor : 0
vendor_id : Geode by NSC
cpu family : 5
model : 5
model name : Geode(TM) Integrated Processor by National Semi
stepping: 2
cpu MHz : 398.514
cache size : 32 KB
fdiv_bug: no
hlt_bug : no
f00f_bug: no
coma_bug: no
fpu : yes
fpu_exception : yes
cpuid level : 1
wp : yes
flags : fpu de pse tsc msr cx8 pge cmov mmx mmxext 3dnowext 3dnow
bogomips: 797.02
clflush size: 32
cache_alignment : 32
address sizes : 32 bits physical, 32 bits virtual
power management:
--
Neil Bothwick
We are phasing in a paperless office, starting with the restrooms.
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: i486
On Tuesday 23 November 2010, James wrote:
Volker Armin Hemmann volkerarmin at googlemail.com writes:
make that i586
CFLAGS=-Os -march=??? -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer
CXXFLAGS=${CFLAGS}
so that would be:
CHOST=i486-pc-linux-gnu
CFLAGS=-Os -march=i586 -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer
CXXFLAGS=${CFLAGS}
no, that would be
CHOST=i586-pc-linux-gnu
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: i486
On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 18:10:02 +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote about Re:
[gentoo-user] Re: i486:
On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 16:09:59 + (UTC), James wrote:
(I forgot about the geode board.) The Geode is
one I'm not too sure about.
My Viglen MPC-L, which I think is a Geode LX, uses
CFLAGS=-O2 -march=geode -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer
CXXFLAGS=${CFLAGS}
CHOST=i486-pc-linux-gnu
Try using i686 instead.
flags : fpu de pse tsc msr cx8 pge cmov mmx mmxext 3dnowext
You have CMOV and MMX, as well as 3DNow! instructions -- with
extensions. That makes it an Athlon lite processor, or a K6-3 with
CMOV instructions. These are enough to make it compatible with the
Pentium Pro (i686) architecture, and a bit more besides.
Here are my flags from the box on which I am composing this message, a
dyadic Athlon MP (Barton core) system:
flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge
mca cmov pat pse36 mmx fxsr sse syscall mp mmxext 3dnowext 3dnow
[Both CPUs reported the same CPUID flags.]
I guess the Geode is quite lite compared to a late-model Athlon.
To the O.P.: your CHOST should be 'i586-pc-linux-gnu' to support all
the processors you have listed, and -march=i586 will allow you to
compile once for all your processors.
--
Regards,
Dave [RLU #314465]
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
dwn...@ntlworld.com (David W Noon)
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: i486
On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 18:36:49 +, David W Noon wrote:
CFLAGS=-O2 -march=geode -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer
CXXFLAGS=${CFLAGS}
CHOST=i486-pc-linux-gnu
Try using i686 instead.
flags : fpu de pse tsc msr cx8 pge cmov mmx mmxext 3dnowext
You have CMOV and MMX, as well as 3DNow! instructions -- with
extensions. That makes it an Athlon lite processor, or a K6-3 with
CMOV instructions. These are enough to make it compatible with the
Pentium Pro (i686) architecture, and a bit more besides.
Apparently it's not quite a full i686. The research I did at the time
indicated that using anything higher than i486 was asking for problems.
--
Neil Bothwick
An expert is nothing more than an ordinary person away from home.
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: i486
On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 22:10:02 +0100, James wrote about [gentoo-user] Re: i486: David W Noon dwnoon at ntlworld.com writes: Try using i686 instead. This clearly will not work with a k6 processor or the Geode LX. Recall, I want one set of settings for the make.conf file That part of my follow-up was intended for Neil Bothwick, as I was replying to a message of his. flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 mmx fxsr sse syscall mp mmxext 3dnowext 3dnow These will not all work with all cpus I previously specified Those are *my* flags, for comparison with Neil's. To the O.P.: your CHOST should be 'i586-pc-linux-gnu' to support all the processors you have listed, and -march=i586 will allow you to compile once for all your processors. OK, it is as I suspected, only use i586 in lieu of i486, but with this stage-3 file: stage3-i486-20101116.tar.bz2 I'm afraid I still do stage 1 installs, even though the Gentoo dev's don't like that. -- Regards, Dave [RLU #314465] *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* dwn...@ntlworld.com (David W Noon) *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: i486
On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 20:12:53 + (UTC), James wrote: ???( and I have to vet against what the Geode LX can handle, as that is not yet clear to me either... besides I think all of these get set, automatically with the march=i586 setting, so as to be redundant.? The Geode LX runs badly on i586 instructions. OK, it is as I suspected, only use i586 in lieu of i486, but with this stage-3 file: stage3-i486-20101116.tar.bz2 The CHOST is set in the stage 3 file, you must use the one that matches your make.conf settings. Changing CHOST after installation is non-trivial. -- Neil Bothwick WinErr 009: Horrible bug encountered - God knows what has happened signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: i486
On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 22:10:02 +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote about Re:
[gentoo-user] Re: i486:
On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 18:36:49 +, David W Noon wrote:
CFLAGS=-O2 -march=geode -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer
CXXFLAGS=${CFLAGS}
CHOST=i486-pc-linux-gnu
Try using i686 instead.
flags : fpu de pse tsc msr cx8 pge cmov mmx mmxext
3dnowext
You have CMOV and MMX, as well as 3DNow! instructions -- with
extensions. That makes it an Athlon lite processor, or a K6-3 with
CMOV instructions. These are enough to make it compatible with the
Pentium Pro (i686) architecture, and a bit more besides.
Apparently it's not quite a full i686. The research I did at the time
indicated that using anything higher than i486 was asking for problems.
I am a little surprised by that. I ran a couple of K6-3 boxes for some
few years using i586. As near as I could tell, those processors only
lacked CMOV instructions when compared with i686. I find it hard to
envisage the Geode lacking any i586 feature, given that it has MMX
instructions, CMOV instructions, the CMPXCHG8B instruction and a TSC
register -- all of those are way beyond i486.
--
Regards,
Dave [RLU #314465]
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
dwn...@ntlworld.com (David W Noon)
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
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Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: i486
still do stage 1 installs？ sounds good ,any guide or tutorial? On 24 November 2010 06:45, David W Noon dwn...@ntlworld.com wrote: On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 22:10:02 +0100, James wrote about [gentoo-user] Re: i486: David W Noon dwnoon at ntlworld.com writes: Try using i686 instead. This clearly will not work with a k6 processor or the Geode LX. Recall, I want one set of settings for the make.conf file That part of my follow-up was intended for Neil Bothwick, as I was replying to a message of his. flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 mmx fxsr sse syscall mp mmxext 3dnowext 3dnow These will not all work with all cpus I previously specified Those are *my* flags, for comparison with Neil's. To the O.P.: your CHOST should be 'i586-pc-linux-gnu' to support all the processors you have listed, and -march=i586 will allow you to compile once for all your processors. OK, it is as I suspected, only use i586 in lieu of i486, but with this stage-3 file: stage3-i486-20101116.tar.bz2 I'm afraid I still do stage 1 installs, even though the Gentoo dev's don't like that. -- Regards, Dave [RLU #314465] *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* dwn...@ntlworld.com (David W Noon) *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
