Re: [gentoo-user] Uh Oh!! Made the contents of my directory unreadable
On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 00:35:37 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: It's not, if it were reset the second and fourth characters would be the same :P Smartass :-) You're too kind :) You owe me a year's subscription from your employer for that wise-crack. Postage paid by sender, naturally. This year, I seem to be working mainly for the Inland Revenue. I'll give them your address :P -- Neil Bothwick I wouldn't be caught dead with a necrophiliac. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties: On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Dale wrote: chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties: On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Alan McKinnon wrote: On Thursday 11 February 2010 13:50:54 Walter Dnes wrote: On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 01:31:26AM +0100, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Roy Wright wrote: IMO, mandatory semantic-desktop is a very good reason to find another desktop manager (even after being my primary desktop for 7 years). yeah good luck with that. Because gnome is moving in that direction too. There are other desktops besides GNOME and KDE. Actually I prefer the ICEWM window manager. I was running a 1999 Dell 450mhz PIII with 128 megs of *SYSTEM* ram until the summer of 2007. Let's just say that GNOME and KDE were out of the question for me. On my current desktop, ICEWM flies. But I also have a netbook, and again GNOME and KDE are not usable. Seriously guys, you start sounding like luddites. Is new, must be bad. Correction, is fat, bloated, and slow, must be bad. I wonder if Microsoft's anti-linux strategy is to have its agents infiltrate the linux developer community, and turn linux into bloatware. You have been corrected on this point so many times I now think you are just a stupid ass. It is not slow. You are the only one saying that. People who do use Nepomuk say that it is not slow and does not hog resources (initial scan excepted). you can even tell nepomuk how much memory it is allowed to use ... Can you nice the thing too? That would work. I set emerge to 5 and I can't even tell that emerge is running most of the time. There may be times when I can but it is rare. I just don't get this thing that indexing is a resource hog. I notice updatedb running at night. I have 329Gbs of data and updatedb only takes a few minutes. How is that a resource hog? My machine is not as old as some but it is slow going by the new machines that are out now. It's a AMD 2500+ with 2Gbs of ram. I have had Linux on machines as slow as 133MHz but never felt the need to disable indexing. when updatedb runs your cache is shot afterwards. That is a known problems. Nepomuk is only noticable once: the first indexing run. After that it creates zero load. So cache is bad? Heck, my cache is almost always full anyway. Nothing new there. If it is not updatedb then it will be something else. Thing is, I can't tell any difference in my cache before, during or after. I do have 2Gbs of ram here so maybe I just can't see the difference. I guess I could always wait until 3:10AM and test this theory tho. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Upside/downside to including config files in quickpkg?
chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties: On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Alan McKinnonalan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On Friday 12 February 2010 00:13:23 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: One thing I haven't found so far is what to put in make.conf to get the buildpkg feature to include the configs. It's easy at the command line. Where's the documentation on how to actually use this the right way automatically? - Mark when you use buildpkg feature the packages contain the virgin unedited configs as they are installed by the package and not any edits done by you. Just checking something: We are all aware of the difference between emerge --buildpkg and quickpkg right/ -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com Volker is. I am not sure I am and I'm not sure that Neil was talking about quickpkg which is what I am using so far. The command quickpkg --include-configs says it includes the configs. That's what I thought we (you and I Alan) were talking about. On the other hand I presumed (apparently incorrectly) that the FEATURES=buildpkg (which is what I think Neil is speaking about) gave me the same option but I now guess it doesn't. If I need to use quickpkg to save the configs then I think I'll do that being that as I simple-minded home user with no admin experience I have no in-place rigorous methods for doing __any__ backups. I just tar up directories once in awhile and deal with the problems that come later. (If they come...when they come...they do come, don't they?) ;-) - Mark This is how I understand it. If you use buildpkg with emerge, you get the original configs from the source tarball. If you use quickpkg, then you get the config files YOU created. If I understand this correctly, you can remember it this way as well. Doing it during the emerge gives you what emerge produces. Doing it with quickpkg gives you what you produced. All that and I didn't confuse myself. So, I'm probably wrong in how I understand it. lol Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Freitag 12 Februar 2010, Dale wrote: chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties: On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Dale wrote: chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties: On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Alan McKinnon wrote: On Thursday 11 February 2010 13:50:54 Walter Dnes wrote: On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 01:31:26AM +0100, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Roy Wright wrote: IMO, mandatory semantic-desktop is a very good reason to find another desktop manager (even after being my primary desktop for 7 years). yeah good luck with that. Because gnome is moving in that direction too. There are other desktops besides GNOME and KDE. Actually I prefer the ICEWM window manager. I was running a 1999 Dell 450mhz PIII with 128 megs of *SYSTEM* ram until the summer of 2007. Let's just say that GNOME and KDE were out of the question for me. On my current desktop, ICEWM flies. But I also have a netbook, and again GNOME and KDE are not usable. Seriously guys, you start sounding like luddites. Is new, must be bad. Correction, is fat, bloated, and slow, must be bad. I wonder if Microsoft's anti-linux strategy is to have its agents infiltrate the linux developer community, and turn linux into bloatware. You have been corrected on this point so many times I now think you are just a stupid ass. It is not slow. You are the only one saying that. People who do use Nepomuk say that it is not slow and does not hog resources (initial scan excepted). you can even tell nepomuk how much memory it is allowed to use ... Can you nice the thing too? That would work. I set emerge to 5 and I can't even tell that emerge is running most of the time. There may be times when I can but it is rare. I just don't get this thing that indexing is a resource hog. I notice updatedb running at night. I have 329Gbs of data and updatedb only takes a few minutes. How is that a resource hog? My machine is not as old as some but it is slow going by the new machines that are out now. It's a AMD 2500+ with 2Gbs of ram. I have had Linux on machines as slow as 133MHz but never felt the need to disable indexing. when updatedb runs your cache is shot afterwards. That is a known problems. Nepomuk is only noticable once: the first indexing run. After that it creates zero load. So cache is bad? Heck, my cache is almost always full anyway. Nothing new there. If it is not updatedb then it will be something else. no, cahce is great. That is the problem. Updatedb replaces the cached files with stuff you probably don't care about. Which is bad.
Re: [gentoo-user] Upside/downside to including config files in quickpkg?
On Freitag 12 Februar 2010, Dale wrote: chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties: On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Alan McKinnonalan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On Friday 12 February 2010 00:13:23 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: One thing I haven't found so far is what to put in make.conf to get the buildpkg feature to include the configs. It's easy at the command line. Where's the documentation on how to actually use this the right way automatically? - Mark when you use buildpkg feature the packages contain the virgin unedited configs as they are installed by the package and not any edits done by you. Just checking something: We are all aware of the difference between emerge --buildpkg and quickpkg right/ -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com Volker is. I am not sure I am and I'm not sure that Neil was talking about quickpkg which is what I am using so far. The command quickpkg --include-configs says it includes the configs. That's what I thought we (you and I Alan) were talking about. On the other hand I presumed (apparently incorrectly) that the FEATURES=buildpkg (which is what I think Neil is speaking about) gave me the same option but I now guess it doesn't. If I need to use quickpkg to save the configs then I think I'll do that being that as I simple-minded home user with no admin experience I have no in-place rigorous methods for doing __any__ backups. I just tar up directories once in awhile and deal with the problems that come later. (If they come...when they come...they do come, don't they?) ;-) - Mark This is how I understand it. If you use buildpkg with emerge, you get the original configs from the source tarball. If you use quickpkg, then you get the config files YOU created. If I understand this correctly, you can remember it this way as well. Doing it during the emerge gives you what emerge produces. Doing it with quickpkg gives you what you produced. All that and I didn't confuse myself. So, I'm probably wrong in how I understand it. lol Dale :-) :-) no, this is entirely correct.
Re: [gentoo-user] Upside/downside to including config files in quickpkg?
On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 4:29 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: On Freitag 12 Februar 2010, Dale wrote: SNIP This is how I understand it. If you use buildpkg with emerge, you get the original configs from the source tarball. If you use quickpkg, then you get the config files YOU created. If I understand this correctly, you can remember it this way as well. Doing it during the emerge gives you what emerge produces. Doing it with quickpkg gives you what you produced. All that and I didn't confuse myself. So, I'm probably wrong in how I understand it. lol Dale :-) :-) no, this is entirely correct. From what I've seen last night and today I do not think this is correct. quickpkg =NAME produces a binary package with NO config files included. You have to use quickpkg --include-configs =NAME to get the configs, at least from what I can see from the messages it produces when it runs. There is another option to limit the configs to only the unedited ones. - Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] Upside/downside to including config files in quickpkg?
On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:39:48 -0800, Mark Knecht wrote: Volker is. I am not sure I am and I'm not sure that Neil was talking about quickpkg which is what I am using so far. The command quickpkg --include-configs says it includes the configs. That's what I thought we (you and I Alan) were talking about. On the other hand I presumed (apparently incorrectly) that the FEATURES=buildpkg (which is what I think Neil is speaking about) gave me the same option but I now guess it doesn't. I was talking about the difference between quickpkg and buildpkg in response to your statement One thing I haven't found so far is what to put in make.conf to get the buildpkg feature to include the configs. So, yes, I was aware of the difference, and the reason why they behave differently. Buildpkg has to work with the files before they are installed, otherwise --buildpkgonly wouldn't work. If I need to use quickpkg to save the configs then I think I'll do that being that as I simple-minded home user with no admin experience I have no in-place rigorous methods for doing __any__ backups. I just tar up directories once in awhile and deal with the problems that come later. (If they come...when they come...they do come, don't they?) ;-) What's wrong with a cron job to tar up /etc once per day? There are more sophisticated solutions, but tar does the job and can save you much grief. -- Neil Bothwick Hello, this is an extension to the famous signature virus, called spymail. Could you please copy me into your signature and send back what you were doing last night between 10pm and 3am? signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 00:43:36 +0100, Christian Apeltauer wrote: If you do not want a piece of software, why should you install it? Installing and not using it instead of not installing it at all, is the wrong way and (to my opinion) it is defintely not the Gentoo way. Clearly it is not optional, otherwise the ebuild would support the existing semantic-desktop flag. If upstream have made this feature compulsory, disabling it is not the Gentoo way either. -- Neil Bothwick Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Upside/downside to including config files in quickpkg?
chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties: On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 4:29 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: On Freitag 12 Februar 2010, Dale wrote: SNIP This is how I understand it. If you use buildpkg with emerge, you get the original configs from the source tarball. If you use quickpkg, then you get the config files YOU created. If I understand this correctly, you can remember it this way as well. Doing it during the emerge gives you what emerge produces. Doing it with quickpkg gives you what you produced. All that and I didn't confuse myself. So, I'm probably wrong in how I understand it. lol Dale :-) :-) no, this is entirely correct. From what I've seen last night and today I do not think this is correct. quickpkg =NAME produces a binary package with NO config files included. You have to use quickpkg --include-configs =NAME to get the configs, at least from what I can see from the messages it produces when it runs. There is another option to limit the configs to only the unedited ones. - Mark You do have to add that option but that was already mentioned. I should have added it for clarity tho. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Upside/downside to including config files in quickpkg?
chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties: On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:39:48 -0800, Mark Knecht wrote: Volker is. I am not sure I am and I'm not sure that Neil was talking about quickpkg which is what I am using so far. The command quickpkg --include-configs says it includes the configs. That's what I thought we (you and I Alan) were talking about. On the other hand I presumed (apparently incorrectly) that the FEATURES=buildpkg (which is what I think Neil is speaking about) gave me the same option but I now guess it doesn't. I was talking about the difference between quickpkg and buildpkg in response to your statement One thing I haven't found so far is what to put in make.conf to get the buildpkg feature to include the configs. I'm not sure that is doable actually. If you use buildpkg, there is no config except the virgin one that comes from the tarball. From my understanding, emerge builds the package, saves a copy to /usr/portage/All then installs the package to where ever it goes, presumably /. I think I see what you mean but I don't think there is anything to be saved since it is not installed when it is done. Someone correct me if I am wrong here. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties: On Freitag 12 Februar 2010, Dale wrote: chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties: On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Dale wrote: chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties: On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Alan McKinnon wrote: On Thursday 11 February 2010 13:50:54 Walter Dnes wrote: On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 01:31:26AM +0100, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Roy Wright wrote: IMO, mandatory semantic-desktop is a very good reason to find another desktop manager (even after being my primary desktop for 7 years). yeah good luck with that. Because gnome is moving in that direction too. There are other desktops besides GNOME and KDE. Actually I prefer the ICEWM window manager. I was running a 1999 Dell 450mhz PIII with 128 megs of *SYSTEM* ram until the summer of 2007. Let's just say that GNOME and KDE were out of the question for me. On my current desktop, ICEWM flies. But I also have a netbook, and again GNOME and KDE are not usable. Seriously guys, you start sounding like luddites. Is new, must be bad. Correction, is fat, bloated, and slow, must be bad. I wonder if Microsoft's anti-linux strategy is to have its agents infiltrate the linux developer community, and turn linux into bloatware. You have been corrected on this point so many times I now think you are just a stupid ass. It is not slow. You are the only one saying that. People who do use Nepomuk say that it is not slow and does not hog resources (initial scan excepted). you can even tell nepomuk how much memory it is allowed to use ... Can you nice the thing too? That would work. I set emerge to 5 and I can't even tell that emerge is running most of the time. There may be times when I can but it is rare. I just don't get this thing that indexing is a resource hog. I notice updatedb running at night. I have 329Gbs of data and updatedb only takes a few minutes. How is that a resource hog? My machine is not as old as some but it is slow going by the new machines that are out now. It's a AMD 2500+ with 2Gbs of ram. I have had Linux on machines as slow as 133MHz but never felt the need to disable indexing. when updatedb runs your cache is shot afterwards. That is a known problems. Nepomuk is only noticable once: the first indexing run. After that it creates zero load. So cache is bad? Heck, my cache is almost always full anyway. Nothing new there. If it is not updatedb then it will be something else. no, cahce is great. That is the problem. Updatedb replaces the cached files with stuff you probably don't care about. Which is bad. I don't think I have ever seen my cache change when running updatedb. Maybe it is so small that it doesn't matter. After all, I only have over 300GBs worth of files on the drives and 2Gbs of ram. This makes me want to stay up tonight and test this theory. o_O Dale :-) :-)
[gentoo-user] Re: How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
On 02/11/2010 03:03 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: ... And don't start with sockets. That will result in a nightmare. dbus is a clean solution to a huge problem. Apps have to talk to each other. The only way to keep it sane is a standardized IPC daemon like dbus. Aha! This is a question that has confused me since I was still in diapers. (And may be in them again soon enough :) Could you (or anyone else here) give us a really dumbed-down summary of why a dev would want/need to use a socket, versus a pipe, versus a signal, versus dbus, versus, well, whatever else is out there? Many thanks.
[gentoo-user] Re: Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On 02/11/2010 01:35 PM, Zeerak Waseem wrote: It just seems silly that if you want to use the newest version of kate, kmail etc. that semantic-desktop is forced upon you, when you're not interested in having the entire DE. By the authority vested in me by My-Wife-the-Windows-User, I welcome you to the gentoo-users mail list. (I don't recall your name from previous months, but, nevermind.) I see that you've taken some heat in return for your opinions, but you've maintained a very civil and polite tone to your replies, and I admire you for that. On the other hand, may I politely suggest that, if you wish to use the latest version of kate (or any other software including software from M$) you must necessarily accept the decisions of the author of that software. How could it possibly be otherwise? The Ultimate Solution is to develop your own software, of course, and be the next M$/Google/Whoever. Hey, I'm still working on it -- I'll get there, do-or-die!
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 04:04:38 +0100, walt w41...@gmail.com wrote: On 02/11/2010 01:35 PM, Zeerak Waseem wrote: It just seems silly that if you want to use the newest version of kate, kmail etc. that semantic-desktop is forced upon you, when you're not interested in having the entire DE. By the authority vested in me by My-Wife-the-Windows-User, I welcome you to the gentoo-users mail list. (I don't recall your name from previous months, but, nevermind.) I see that you've taken some heat in return for your opinions, but you've maintained a very civil and polite tone to your replies, and I admire you for that. Why thank you :-) On the other hand, may I politely suggest that, if you wish to use the latest version of kate (or any other software including software from M$) you must necessarily accept the decisions of the author of that software. How could it possibly be otherwise? Well it can't be otherwise, however I do enjoy complaining, well about certain things anyway. Personally I installed kde, and realized I had no idea what on earth was on my computer and why, so I removed it and moved to openbox, and don't use any kde specific apps. But I do find it silly, that the various applications that aren't dependent of the DE, to require a dependency of the DE. It just seems a bit backwards to me :-) I simply don't understand. The Ultimate Solution is to develop your own software, of course, and be the next M$/Google/Whoever. Hey, I'm still working on it -- I'll get there, do-or-die! I just started a degree, to accomplish -something akin to- that ;-) -- Zeerak
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
On Friday 12 February 2010 04:24:33 walt wrote: On 02/11/2010 03:03 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: ... And don't start with sockets. That will result in a nightmare. dbus is a clean solution to a huge problem. Apps have to talk to each other. The only way to keep it sane is a standardized IPC daemon like dbus. Aha! This is a question that has confused me since I was still in diapers. (And may be in them again soon enough :) Could you (or anyone else here) give us a really dumbed-down summary of why a dev would want/need to use a socket, versus a pipe, versus a signal, versus dbus, versus, well, whatever else is out there? A pipe is a quick and dirty means of connecting two processes. Shove stuff in one end and it comes out the other end. What the other end does with it is up to the other end. A pipe (|) in a shell is the same thing, built for you automagically. Used within an app you must construct the pipe in code. An example would be reading a text file and inserting the line into a database. On the command line you would do tail -f /path/to/data/file | /path/to/insert/script A socket does the same thing in the style of networking as opposed to a raw pipe. All your local X clients do this, the X server created a socket and the clients plug into it. This is good because X is a networked gui system so you just do networking everywhere even if the server and client are on the same box. You use dbus if any old app needs to get an idea across to any other old app and you don't know who is doing what. You are always aware of what is at the end of a pipe (you built the thing) but if your jabber client wants a notification to be sent of an incoming message, it doesn't know or care how this is done - that is up to the notification apps. This is analogous to posting to a mailing list and asking anyone who knows the answer to a question to please speak up. A signal is a specific message you send to a specific process via the kernel. Send signal 15 to a process's PID and the kernel will relay it. The message will be interpreted as shut yourself down now. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Uh Oh!! Made the contents of my directory unreadable
On Friday 12 February 2010 02:02:27 Neil Bothwick wrote: You owe me a year's subscription from your employer for that wise-crack. Postage paid by sender, naturally. This year, I seem to be working mainly for the Inland Revenue. I'll give them your address :P How odd. I do the same with the local version. Our Receiver of Revenge is the company main shareholder [in-joke, you're not supposed to get it ;-) ] -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Keyword for dev-java/sun-j2ee
On Friday 12 February 2010 01:51:40 Dale wrote: By the way, just installed KDE 4.4 and I still can't open a file with Dolphin as root. You are not supposed to do that. Dolphin runs as you. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Friday 12 February 2010 01:49:18 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: On Freitag 12 Februar 2010, Christian Apeltauer wrote: Am Thu, 11 Feb 2010 01:18:42 + schrieb Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk: On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:03:15 -0600, Roy Wright wrote: IMO, mandatory semantic-desktop is a very good reason to find another desktop manager (even after being my primary desktop for 7 years). It's so mandatory it takes a whole mouse click to turn it off :( If you do not want a piece of software, why should you install it? Installing and not using it instead of not installing it at all, is the wrong way and (to my opinion) it is defintely not the Gentoo way. Well, I have drawn the conclusions and got rid of kmail and am on the verge of migrating the whole desktop. I loved kde-3.5, I seriously tried kde-4.*, but I could never befriend with it. And one point I detaste is that Social Semantic Desktop thing (as Nepomuk is characterized on its afore mentioned wikipedia page). For me it is just another instance of what Kant called selbstverschuldete Unmündigkeit (self-incurred immaturity). sure. Be able to tag and quickly find information is immature. Question, when you have KDE installed and some app pulls in gconf or gvfs - do you throw the same temper tamtrum? People by and large do not comprehend what KDE-4 is all about, and the naming convention actually reinforces this misconception. Folk think KDE-4 is the natural evolution of KDE-3.5 - more of the same just more of it and supposedly better. Nothing could be further from the truth. KDE-4 is nothing like KDE-3.5 and visual similarities are just that - superficial. kmail's appearance in 3.5 was good and in 4 it looks the same because there is no good reason to change the skin. Underlying that superficial layer you find something entirely new which bears no resemblance at all the the old one, and this has been confounding people since the first code commits. KDE-4 is built on an array of new technologies: Plasma, Akonadi, Nepomuk, Phonon, Solid, Strigi and more Those things encompass what KDE-4 is built to do, they are the reason for KDE-4's entire existence, it's raison d'etre. Without Plasma, it is just another desktop. Without Phonon, you have to use what came before together with it's problems. There is a reason why latest versions of KDE do not have magic switches to remove semantic desktop: SEMANTIC DESKTOP IS SUPPOSED TO BE THERE. IT IS THE ENTIRE REASON KDE4 EXISTS AT ALL. Complaining about it reveals only a deep fundamental understanding of what the software is supposed to do, so folk should stop trying to shoehorn it into a box that the devs deliberately built it to not fit into. To all those folk who do not like building a semantic desktop with kmail: You need to get over it. Seriously. There are other options. Or try building a browser without an html rendering engine for a vivid example of what you are attempting. Don't bother trying to justify why this is not a valid analogy to KDE4 - it is a valid analogy and KDE really is what I described above. It's that way because the devs who built it say so. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
On Friday 12 February 2010 01:52:37 Zeerak Waseem wrote: On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 00:31:26 +0100, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On Friday 12 February 2010 01:10:58 Zeerak Waseem wrote: But honestly, I don't have a solution to the problem, what I can however say is that my browser and my mail app, are pretty deft at realizing that their attempts to access a server, are in vain, without any network manager to tell them that they're offline. If there is any inter-app communication going on, it's not anything I know enough about to give a qualified guess about. So do this then: Build a desktop from old ebuilds and tarballs from a time when dbus was not prevalent. Make sure that the result is somewhat comparable to what you like to have now. Note the code sizes and other metrics of complexity. Note resource usage. Then examine the code for all the major apps you have, find the IPC-type functionality they have and remove it. Rebuild everything. Note the code sizes and other metrics of complexity. Note resource usage. Compare these two sets of numbers. Then run your new IPC-less machine. Let us know how that works out for you. At the very least you will gain an understanding of just how much IPC is going on even in minimal environments. Well, I'll have to tell you, that I might just do that one of these days, because like you say. If nothing else I'll gain an understanding of it. As you suggested in the last mail, I don't think I've considered all the different uses of IPC. :-) A lot of that was tongue in cheek :-) If you do manage to pull off that monumental purge and get something that runs, you'll have enough information to build a PhD thesis around. OK, maybe not a PhD. maybe a Masters. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 07:53:20 +0100, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On Friday 12 February 2010 01:52:37 Zeerak Waseem wrote: On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 00:31:26 +0100, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On Friday 12 February 2010 01:10:58 Zeerak Waseem wrote: But honestly, I don't have a solution to the problem, what I can however say is that my browser and my mail app, are pretty deft at realizing that their attempts to access a server, are in vain, without any network manager to tell them that they're offline. If there is any inter-app communication going on, it's not anything I know enough about to give a qualified guess about. So do this then: Build a desktop from old ebuilds and tarballs from a time when dbus was not prevalent. Make sure that the result is somewhat comparable to what you like to have now. Note the code sizes and other metrics of complexity. Note resource usage. Then examine the code for all the major apps you have, find the IPC-type functionality they have and remove it. Rebuild everything. Note the code sizes and other metrics of complexity. Note resource usage. Compare these two sets of numbers. Then run your new IPC-less machine. Let us know how that works out for you. At the very least you will gain an understanding of just how much IPC is going on even in minimal environments. Well, I'll have to tell you, that I might just do that one of these days, because like you say. If nothing else I'll gain an understanding of it. As you suggested in the last mail, I don't think I've considered all the different uses of IPC. :-) A lot of that was tongue in cheek :-) If you do manage to pull off that monumental purge and get something that runs, you'll have enough information to build a PhD thesis around. OK, maybe not a PhD. maybe a Masters. Hehe, it read :-) I'll be sure to remember that when I have to write my masters, quite possibly also about the same time I'll be done with the purge and getting it working ;) -- Zeerak
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com writes: so how do you propose that a network connection manager tells a broweser or mail app that they are offline? Why does the app need to know? Browsers normally have an online/offline menu selection and if you try to browse to a site when your network is offline then the browser will generate the appropriate error message. In any case, these notifications are only really of use on a single-homed non LAN connected system. On an office LAN, you may well be able to still access your mail server but a problem means that you cannot access any web sites.
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
On Freitag 12 Februar 2010, Graham Murray wrote: Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com writes: so how do you propose that a network connection manager tells a broweser or mail app that they are offline? Why does the app need to know? others already posted examples why this is needed. Also - why should I manually select something, when the system can do it for me? Do you install your files by hand or do you let portage do the job?
