Re: [Gimp-user] One stupid thing

2006-02-10 Thread Julian Oliver
John R. Culleton wrote:
> 
> Not at all. I was noting that on two different flavors of linux
> it is necessary to download and install material beyond that
> contained in the Gimp download in order to get it to compile. And
> that wasn't true in prior versions. Perhaps the missing module
> should be put in with the Gimp tarball if that is legal and
> practical.

i imagine that when you compiled prior versions of the Gimp you failed to notice
that you already had libraries/headers et al required to compile. an
easy mistake. 

as long as i can remember the Gimp has been dependent on external libraries 
for compilation. there are very few applications that aren't.

it would be great to be able to ship all the sources required to compile
but frankly that would produce a very large tarball; each time you download
the sources you'd be downloading these extra libraries all over again. 
that would be boring.

there are a number of other complications/inefficiences involved also. one that 
comes to mind
are the difficulties produced by duplicate libraries. for instance, imagine 
having a libjpeg installation 
from your distribution (/usr/lib) *and* another from our hypothetical Gimp 
source tarball (/usr/local/lib).

of course you could throw all the sources of dependencies (if legal) into this 
tarball, compile and install 
them to a non-system wide location, and then link against them.
this would produce what is known as a statically linked binary.

Apple users are used to this, but they are also used to having duplicate libs 
scattered all over the system; 
static linking is esp common in their ~/Applications directory - very
messy. 

as a Linux user however, this would drive me bonkers..

Julian 

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Re: [Gimp-user] One stupid thing

2006-02-10 Thread Owen
John R. Culleton wrote:

> 
> Not at all. I was noting that on two different flavors of linux
> it is necessary to download and install material beyond that
> contained in the Gimp download in order to get it to compile. And
> that wasn't true in prior versions. Perhaps the missing module
> should be put in with the Gimp tarball if that is legal and
> practical.


That suggestion would imply that all dependencies be packaged which is nonsense!


Owen
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Re: [Gimp-user] One stupid thing

2006-02-10 Thread Carol Spears
On Fri, Feb 10, 2006 at 05:27:23PM -0500, John R. Culleton wrote:
> On Friday 10 February 2006 04:46 pm, Michael Schumacher wrote:
> > John R. Culleton wrote:
> > > Not at all. I was noting that on two different flavors of linux
> > > it is necessary to download and install material beyond that
> > > contained in the Gimp download in order to get it to compile. And
> > > that wasn't true in prior versions.
> >
> > Um... you're kidding, right?
> >
> > GTK+
> > Glib
> > libpng
> > libjpeg
> > gcc
> > make
> > ...
> >
> > are also required and not included.
> 
> All these and Perl are either included in a standard "full"
> installation of e.g., Slackware or Debian Sarge, As I stated earler
> previous editions of Gimp have compiled without difficulty. I
> have Slackware Current up to date as of yesterday. I have Debian Sarge up to
> date as of yesterday. I can compile older versions of Gimp.  
> 
> My concern is not so much with 2.3.x but with 2.4. If that stable
> version requires software bits and pieces not found on most
> Linux systems and not downloadable from ww.gimp.org then there 
> is trouble ahead.  
> 
we were discussing this on the irc.

XML::Parser is needed by intltool and has been for some time now.

my thoughts when you mentioned needing this (additional) software from
two different distributions was in trying to figure out how this could
have happened.

i do not install a lot of the stuff that is needed for one of these all
knowing and all responsive desktops.  this means i am building things on
what many of the users would consider a minimal set up.  

i wonder if this fact about the way i use my computer combined with the
way distributions are separating their packages in a way that might not
be apparent from the source web sites -- perhaps there is a dependency
check that is not registering somewhere.

debian purposely breaks libtool the other way.  it insists on seeing
software that has been purposely and perfectly placed so it won't build
and refusing to build at that point instead of going where it knows (or
can easily determine) where to go.  they like it that way.  they closed
my bug report. i can talk you through how to build things on sarge so 
that you can see what i am talking about.

everyone i spoke to about my problem was very nice, btw.

carol

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Re: [Gimp-user] One stupid thing

2006-02-10 Thread Tom . Williams
glib and gtk+ and other libs required by Gimp might be part of any current
Linux distro but they might not be the right versions required by any given
Gimp version.

As for the XML::Parser perl module, perl installations that come with Linux
distros will have some perl modules installed but not all.  I think it's
reasonable to require the system owner or the person who is building Gimp
to make sure external libs and apps are configured per Gimp's requirements.
In this case, that means the system owner is responsible for making sure
perl is setup per Gimp's requirements unless Gimp is being built with perl
support disabled (if that is an option).

Peace...

Tom



   
 "John R.  
 Culleton" 
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]  To 
 s.com>gimp-user@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu
 Sent by:   cc 
 gimp-user-bounces 
 @lists.XCF.Berkel Subject 
     ey.EDU            Re: [Gimp-user] One stupid thing
   
   
 02/10/2006 02:27  
 PM
   
   




On Friday 10 February 2006 04:46 pm, Michael Schumacher wrote:
> John R. Culleton wrote:
> > Not at all. I was noting that on two different flavors of linux
> > it is necessary to download and install material beyond that
> > contained in the Gimp download in order to get it to compile. And
> > that wasn't true in prior versions.
>
> Um... you're kidding, right?
>
> GTK+
> Glib
> libpng
> libjpeg
> gcc
> make
> ...
>
> are also required and not included.

All these and Perl are either included in a standard "full"
installation of e.g., Slackware or Debian Sarge, As I stated earler
previous editions of Gimp have compiled without difficulty. I
have Slackware Current up to date as of yesterday. I have Debian Sarge up
to
date as of yesterday. I can compile older versions of Gimp.

My concern is not so much with 2.3.x but with 2.4. If that stable
version requires software bits and pieces not found on most
Linux systems and not downloadable from ww.gimp.org then there
is trouble ahead.

--
John Culleton
Books with answers to marketing and publishing questions:
http://wexfordpress.com/tex/shortlist.pdf

Book coaches, consultants and packagers:
http://wexfordpress.com/tex/packagers.pdf


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Re: [Gimp-user] One stupid thing

2006-02-10 Thread John R. Culleton
On Friday 10 February 2006 04:46 pm, Michael Schumacher wrote:
> John R. Culleton wrote:
> > Not at all. I was noting that on two different flavors of linux
> > it is necessary to download and install material beyond that
> > contained in the Gimp download in order to get it to compile. And
> > that wasn't true in prior versions.
>
> Um... you're kidding, right?
>
> GTK+
> Glib
> libpng
> libjpeg
> gcc
> make
> ...
>
> are also required and not included.

All these and Perl are either included in a standard "full"
installation of e.g., Slackware or Debian Sarge, As I stated earler
previous editions of Gimp have compiled without difficulty. I
have Slackware Current up to date as of yesterday. I have Debian Sarge up to
date as of yesterday. I can compile older versions of Gimp.  

My concern is not so much with 2.3.x but with 2.4. If that stable
version requires software bits and pieces not found on most
Linux systems and not downloadable from ww.gimp.org then there 
is trouble ahead.  

-- 
John Culleton
Books with answers to marketing and publishing questions:
http://wexfordpress.com/tex/shortlist.pdf

Book coaches, consultants and packagers:
http://wexfordpress.com/tex/packagers.pdf


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Re: [Gimp-user] One stupid thing

2006-02-10 Thread Michael Schumacher
John R. Culleton wrote:

> Not at all. I was noting that on two different flavors of linux
> it is necessary to download and install material beyond that
> contained in the Gimp download in order to get it to compile. And
> that wasn't true in prior versions. 

Um... you're kidding, right?

GTK+
Glib
libpng
libjpeg
gcc
make
...

are also required and not included.

> Perhaps the missing module should be put in with the Gimp tarball 
> if that is legal and practical.

Sorry, but after your previous statement I have troubles to take you
serious. Maybe you could help to solve my confusion and tell me why you
thinks this could ever be practical?


HTH,
Michael

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Re: [Gimp-user] One stupid thing

2006-02-10 Thread John R. Culleton
On Thursday 09 February 2006 07:08 pm, Michael Schumacher wrote:
> John R. Culleton wrote:
> > Heh. I set up Debian sarge, downloaded Gimp 2.3.8? and tried to
> > compile. Now I am back to the missing XML::Parser problem again.
>
> Did you ignore my first mail in this thread?
>
>
> Michael

Not at all. I was noting that on two different flavors of linux
it is necessary to download and install material beyond that
contained in the Gimp download in order to get it to compile. And
that wasn't true in prior versions. Perhaps the missing module
should be put in with the Gimp tarball if that is legal and
practical.

Thanks for your assistance. 
-- 
John Culleton
Books with answers to marketing and publishing questions:
http://wexfordpress.com/tex/shortlist.pdf

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http://wexfordpress.com/tex/packagers.pdf

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Re: [Gimp-user] One stupid thing

2006-02-09 Thread Michael Schumacher
John R. Culleton wrote:

> Heh. I set up Debian sarge, downloaded Gimp 2.3.8? and tried to
> compile. Now I am back to the missing XML::Parser problem again.

Did you ignore my first mail in this thread?


Michael

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Re: [Gimp-user] One stupid thing

2006-02-09 Thread Carol Spears
On Thu, Feb 09, 2006 at 05:15:17PM -0500, John R. Culleton wrote:
> 
> Heh. I set up Debian sarge, downloaded Gimp 2.3.8? and tried to
> compile. Now I am back to the missing XML::Parser problem again.
> This is a fresh compile on a new partion with a different version
> of linux. I suggest that there myust be something awry other than
> the nut in front of the keyboard. Maybe something needs to be
> included in Gimp 2.4 when it comes out.
> 

sure, i will go here again.  "apt-cache search XML::Parser" gave me a
list of files.  the same files that were listed when this thread
started.  

from this list, libxml-parser-perl and/or libxml-perl see to be the 
most likely to contain the software that you need.

is it something that libtool needs?

carol

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Re: [Gimp-user] One stupid thing

2006-02-09 Thread John R. Culleton
On Saturday 04 February 2006 08:28 pm, John R. Culleton wrote:
> On Friday 03 February 2006 08:37 pm, Carol Spears wrote:
> > On Fri, Feb 03, 2006 at 07:58:24PM -0500, John R. Culleton wrote:
> > > On Friday 03 February 2006 02:57 pm, Carol Spears wrote:
> > >
> > > Now I have a problem with GLIB. Versions up thorugh gimp 2.3.3
> > > don't have the problem.. Versions newer than that complain about an
> > > obsolete GLIB. I updated glib to 2.8.2 and now there is a mismatch
> > > between what I have and what some program finds. There are lots of
> > > clever hints printed out about how to get around the problem, none of
> > > which work for me.
>
> Unstable gimp form 2.3.4 on requires glib with numbers 2.8.0 or
> higher, Even with an update from Slack -current the newest glib
> is 2.6.6. I may have to set up a Debian partition just for Gimp.

Heh. I set up Debian sarge, downloaded Gimp 2.3.8? and tried to
compile. Now I am back to the missing XML::Parser problem again.
This is a fresh compile on a new partion with a different version
of linux. I suggest that there myust be something awry other than
the nut in front of the keyboard. Maybe something needs to be
included in Gimp 2.4 when it comes out.
-- 
John Culleton
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http://wexfordpress.com/tex/shortlist.pdf

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Re: [Gimp-user] One stupid thing

2006-02-04 Thread John R. Culleton
On Friday 03 February 2006 08:37 pm, Carol Spears wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 03, 2006 at 07:58:24PM -0500, John R. Culleton wrote:
> > On Friday 03 February 2006 02:57 pm, Carol Spears wrote:
> >
> > Now I have a problem with GLIB. Versions up thorugh gimp 2.3.3
> > don't have the problem.. Versions newer than that complain about an
> > obsolete GLIB. I updated glib to 2.8.2 and now there is a mismatch
> > between what I have and what some program finds. There are lots of clever
> > hints printed out about how to get around the problem, none of
> > which work for me.

Well I did manage to get past the error by editing the file
/etc/ld.so.config and commenting out /usr/local/lib. Now I can
get some versions to work, such as 2.2.9 and 2.3.3. And I fired
up the automatic update program for Slackware (not part of the
Slack distro btw, and still somewhat controversial.) It is called
swaret. 

Unstable gimp form 2.3.4 on requires glib with numbers 2.8.0 or
higher, Even with an update from Slack -current the newest glib
is 2.6.6. I may have to set up a Debian partition just for Gimp.
-- 
John Culleton
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http://wexfordpress.com/tex/shortlist.pdf

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Re: [Gimp-user] One stupid thing

2006-02-04 Thread Tom Williams
Carol Spears wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 03, 2006 at 05:53:03PM -0800, Tom Williams wrote:
>   
>> I'm also a Slackware user and have the latest glib and gtk+ libraries
>> installed.  Feel free to e-mail me if you need help getting everything
>> straightened out.  I've had similar problems with other apps and got
>> them resolved once I made sure I had everything installed where I
>> expected them to be as well as the app I was building.  :)
>>
>> I've got Gimp 2.2.10 running and Gimp 2.3.6 compiled but not installed
>> since it fails a MMX composite test during "make test".
>>
>> 
> does it fail this test if you ./configure --enable-mmx=no ?
>
> there is a chance that all of that mmx stuff was just Helvetix showing
> off.
>   
When I build Gimp 2.3.6 with "--disable-mmx", make check runs fine.  :)

Peace...

Tom
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Re: [Gimp-user] One stupid thing

2006-02-04 Thread Tom Williams
John R. Culleton wrote:
> Tom, I never saw your original post but only Carol's reply. If
> you could help me dig my way out of the swamp off list or on
> list I would be grateful. I have Slack 10.2 installed. When Gimp
> 2.3.6 failed I tried to  upgrade my libs and thoroughly messed
> them up. But I have a clean copy on another partition. So my game
> will be to upgrade on that partiton with your help. 
>
> Did you use slack Current or do you go directly to another source?
> If so, what sites? Did you deinstall the Slack packages first or not? 
> What exactly did you upgrade? 
>
> All assistance appreciated. 
>   
We can do this off list so we won't clutter it.  :)   Once we get you up
and running, we can post an update for other Slackware users.  :)

Shoot me an e-mail if you haven't already.

Peace...

Tom
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Re: [Gimp-user] One stupid thing

2006-02-04 Thread John R. Culleton
On Saturday 04 February 2006 08:26 am, John R. Culleton wrote:
> BTW
> there is a good guide to using Gimp in DTP workflow buried in the
> online documentation of Scribus, a program that works well with
> Gimp. When I identify the particular html file I will post it.

It is named Toolbox4.html and is part of the Scribus online
documentation. If interested write me for a copy. 

-- 
John Culleton
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Re: [Gimp-user] One stupid thing

2006-02-04 Thread John R. Culleton
On Friday 03 February 2006 10:23 pm, Carol Spears wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 03, 2006 at 05:53:03PM -0800, Tom Williams wrote:
> > I'm also a Slackware user and have the latest glib and gtk+ libraries
> > installed.  Feel free to e-mail me if you need help getting everything
> > straightened out.  I've had similar problems with other apps and got
> > them resolved once I made sure I had everything installed where I
> > expected them to be as well as the app I was building.  :)
> >
> > I've got Gimp 2.2.10 running and Gimp 2.3.6 compiled but not installed
> > since it fails a MMX composite test during "make test".
>

Tom, I never saw your original post but only Carol's reply. If
you could help me dig my way out of the swamp off list or on
list I would be grateful. I have Slack 10.2 installed. When Gimp
2.3.6 failed I tried to  upgrade my libs and thoroughly messed
them up. But I have a clean copy on another partition. So my game
will be to upgrade on that partiton with your help. 

Did you use slack Current or do you go directly to another source?
If so, what sites? Did you deinstall the Slack packages first or not? 
What exactly did you upgrade? 

All assistance appreciated. 

Carol, in answer to your question although there is a third party
program around that will update Slack on the fly, like apt on
Debian or Gentoo, I haven't used it. I prefer to go through
the drama of a major upgrade once or twice a year. But I do try to
keep Gimp up to date. With the advent of more DTP capability---
CMYK, ICC Profiles and such---staying current is more critical. BTW 
there is a good guide to using Gimp in DTP workflow buried in the
online documentation of Scribus, a program that works well with
Gimp. When I identify the paricular html file I will post it.  
-- 
John Culleton
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http://wexfordpress.com/tex/shortlist.pdf

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Re: [Gimp-user] One stupid thing

2006-02-03 Thread Tom Williams
Carol Spears wrote:
> does it fail this test if you ./configure --enable-mmx=no ?
>
> there is a chance that all of that mmx stuff was just Helvetix showing
> off.
>   
I don't know.  It's not critical for me to have the 2.3.x development
releases running.  I was able to get 2.3.5 built and installed.  I've
always had problems with MMX support and I even opened a bug report on
my previous issue.  :)

I can certainly do a build with MMX disabled to see if that works and
report back my findings.

Peace...

Tom
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Re: [Gimp-user] One stupid thing

2006-02-03 Thread Carol Spears
On Fri, Feb 03, 2006 at 05:53:03PM -0800, Tom Williams wrote:
> I'm also a Slackware user and have the latest glib and gtk+ libraries
> installed.  Feel free to e-mail me if you need help getting everything
> straightened out.  I've had similar problems with other apps and got
> them resolved once I made sure I had everything installed where I
> expected them to be as well as the app I was building.  :)
> 
> I've got Gimp 2.2.10 running and Gimp 2.3.6 compiled but not installed
> since it fails a MMX composite test during "make test".
> 
does it fail this test if you ./configure --enable-mmx=no ?

there is a chance that all of that mmx stuff was just Helvetix showing
off.

carol

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Re: [Gimp-user] One stupid thing

2006-02-03 Thread Tom Williams
John R. Culleton wrote:
> Now I have a problem with GLIB. Versions up thorugh gimp 2.3.3
> don't have the problem.. Versions newer than that complain about an obsolete
> GLIB. I updated glib to 2.8.2 and now there is a mismatch between
> what I have and what some program finds. There are lots of clever
> hints printed out about how to get around the problem, none of
> which work for me. Fortunately I always have virgin partition
> laying around to compensate for my own fumbling. I had to move
> one file around but then 2.3.3 would compile. It still won't
> compile on my main partition. But bottom line I now have
> 2.3.3.Newer versions won't compile in either partition.
>   
I'm also a Slackware user and have the latest glib and gtk+ libraries
installed.  Feel free to e-mail me if you need help getting everything
straightened out.  I've had similar problems with other apps and got
them resolved once I made sure I had everything installed where I
expected them to be as well as the app I was building.  :)

I've got Gimp 2.2.10 running and Gimp 2.3.6 compiled but not installed
since it fails a MMX composite test during "make test".

Peace...

Tom
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Re: [Gimp-user] One stupid thing

2006-02-03 Thread Carol Spears
On Fri, Feb 03, 2006 at 07:58:24PM -0500, John R. Culleton wrote:
> On Friday 03 February 2006 02:57 pm, Carol Spears wrote:
> 
> Now I have a problem with GLIB. Versions up thorugh gimp 2.3.3
> don't have the problem.. Versions newer than that complain about an obsolete
> GLIB. I updated glib to 2.8.2 and now there is a mismatch between
> what I have and what some program finds. There are lots of clever
> hints printed out about how to get around the problem, none of
> which work for me. Fortunately I always have virgin partition
> laying around to compensate for my own fumbling. I had to move
> one file around but then 2.3.3 would compile. It still won't
> compile on my main partition. But bottom line I now have
> 2.3.3.Newer versions won't compile in either partition.
> 
purely from an observers point of view, they try to step together.  from
glib through gimp.  it is all the family of gimp-0.6, i think.  unlike
living families, a group of software like glib through gimp are
dependent on each other.

slackware is when you install something and only upgrade when it is
convinient, benefical or interesting to you, right?

> My principal concern is, what happens when 2.4 comes out? Will it
> require an upgrade to my glib? How much misery grief and woe can
> I expect?  
> 
of course you will have to do this.  how much of your computer relies on
glib?

carol

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Re: [Gimp-user] One stupid thing

2006-02-03 Thread John R. Culleton
On Friday 03 February 2006 02:57 pm, Carol Spears wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 03, 2006 at 09:34:10AM -0500, John R. Culleton wrote:
> > I cannot compile the unstable Gimp because of one stupid thing.
> > the ./configure always blows up on this message:
> > 
> > checking for perl... /usr/local/bin/perl
> > checking for XML::Parser... configure: error: XML::Parser perl module is
> > required for intltool
> > --
> > Now I have a standard Slackware distro including Perl. I have
> > files called Parser.pm all over the place. Where do I get the
> > specific Parser.pm that Gimp needs and where do I put it where
> > Gimp can find it?
> >
> > I have asked about this before, but never got an answer.
>
> i am using debian sid.  i just searched their cache for "XML::Parser"
> and from that list i think (if i had your problem) i would install the
> package called libxml-perl.
>
> part of the art of running slackware is to be able to work from
> information like this?
>
> carol


The stupid thing was me installing Active-X Perl. I killed that
and reinstalled the standard item. That got me past the problem
with Parser.pm. 

Now I have a problem with GLIB. Versions up thorugh gimp 2.3.3
don't have the problem.. Versions newer than that complain about an obsolete
GLIB. I updated glib to 2.8.2 and now there is a mismatch between
what I have and what some program finds. There are lots of clever
hints printed out about how to get around the problem, none of
which work for me. Fortunately I always have virgin partition
laying around to compensate for my own fumbling. I had to move
one file around but then 2.3.3 would compile. It still won't
compile on my main partition. But bottom line I now have
2.3.3.Newer versions won't compile in either partition.

My principal concern is, what happens when 2.4 comes out? Will it
require an upgrade to my glib? How much misery grief and woe can
I expect?  

-- 
John Culleton
Books with answers to marketing and publishing questions:
http://wexfordpress.com/tex/shortlist.pdf

Book coaches, consultants and packagers:
http://wexfordpress.com/tex/packagers.pdf

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Re: [Gimp-user] One stupid thing

2006-02-03 Thread Carol Spears
On Fri, Feb 03, 2006 at 09:34:10AM -0500, John R. Culleton wrote:
> I cannot compile the unstable Gimp because of one stupid thing.
> the ./configure always blows up on this message:
> 
> checking for perl... /usr/local/bin/perl
> checking for XML::Parser... configure: error: XML::Parser perl module is 
> required for intltool
> --
> Now I have a standard Slackware distro including Perl. I have
> files called Parser.pm all over the place. Where do I get the
> specific Parser.pm that Gimp needs and where do I put it where
> Gimp can find it? 
> 
> I have asked about this before, but never got an answer. 
> 
i am using debian sid.  i just searched their cache for "XML::Parser"
and from that list i think (if i had your problem) i would install the
package called libxml-perl.

part of the art of running slackware is to be able to work from
information like this?

carol

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Re: [Gimp-user] One stupid thing

2006-02-03 Thread Michael Schumacher
> Von: "John R. Culleton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> Where do I get the specific Parser.pm that Gimp needs and 
> where do I put it where Gimp can find it? 

Directly from CPAN, for example. I haven't done much with Perl in the past
years, but if it hasn't changed, then do

perl -MCPAN -e shell

and follow the instructions to install XML::Parser (or other modules). If
Slackware offers this as a package, then you should prefer that one, of
course.


HTH,
Michael

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