Re: Resume length and history

[Ric Werme]

When Alliant (mini-supercomputer company) folded in 1992, I came up with a
two page resume that covered my whole career, but then wrote one page addenda
tailored to the company and job I was interviewing for.  Having worked on
everything from PDP-10s and the ARPAnet to dot matrix printers to starting
a company for an Apple ][ music sight reading teaching program, recruiters
had trouble getting an answer to "What are you best at?" let alone "What are
you looking for?"

The two parts worked very well.

In previous job searches, I often received thank yous when I gave interviewers
"my" resume, especially after what I saw recruiters do to "improve" it.

One useful tidbit - don't provide full answers in the resume, leave gaps to
be filled at the interview as they can lead to productive discussions.

-- 
r...@wermenh.comhttp://WermeNH.com/
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Re: Resume length and history

[Jefferson Kirkland]

Kenny:

Having been forced back into the job market back in October of last year, I
was afforded training by my last company in the most recent resume trends.

Longer is not necessarily better, and the standard these days is anywhere
from 1-3 pages, depending on the job and amount of experience that your
needing to convey.  They typically want to see the last 10 years of job
experience, if possible.

When adding a job, you should be creating each point in the job's
experience as what is referred to as a CAR statement (
http://www.careerealism.com/executive-resume-good-car/).  Doing this takes
a bit longer, but it is definitely worth it.

If you are having to redo your resume, I quite possibly still have the
resume writing guide that was provided to me.  If you wanted to borrow it,
I could bring it in to work and hand it to Paul for you, just hit me up off
list and I would be happy to let you borrow it.

Regards,

Jeff


On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 5:29 PM, Alan Johnson  wrote:

> There has been some good advise posted here already, but I will just add
> that I have landed my last 2 jobs with nothing more than a LinkedIn
> profile.  My current one was a cold submission electronic submission to a
> company where I knew no one.  I had an offer about a week after sending the
> email.  When the fit is right, it is right, and a good resume will get you
> in the door.  That said, it was surely an outlier.  I fully support the
> idea that it is usually more about finding some way to make a personal
> connection, especially if the fit is not glaringly obvious, but you had
> better have something decent to submit into their system to back up your
> charm.
>
> I stopped bothering to keep a separate resume up to date many years ago.
>  You can export LinkedIn to PDF which is what I use when asked to submit
> something electronically when requested.  For my current job (interviewed
> almost 2 years ago) I don't think I even bothered to bring paper copies to
> the interview.  When I was on the flip side of things, I always wished
> people would stop doing that, but I'm sure there are still stall-warts out
> there who will check to see if you are "prepared" by asking for a copy of
> your resume.  Frankly, I don't want to work for those folks if I have other
> options.  These days, I'd just bust out my android.
>
> My last job was with one of the top recruiting firms in the world.  We had
> the leading technical offering for recruiters to find candidates.  When I
> started there, resume-handling was mostly electronic and shifted heavily
> toward it over the years.  Now, it is nearly all electronic.  Even most
> small businesses do candidate sourcing on the web.  For tech jobs, it is
> almost exclusively electronic.
>
> I only say all this because the 2 page limit is not terribly relevant in a
> well formatted and easily searched (visually that is) electronic document,
> especially for IT folks.  I just keep all the work history in there.  Well,
> everything relevant to any job I might want in the future.  =)  I dropped
> my high school jobs a while back, but I've been paid to do computer stuff
> since college and, for example, I think it still impresses employers to see
> that I worked a help desk on the largest trading floor in New England
> between my Freshman and Sophomore years.  You have to decide for your self
> if each bit of work experience is necessary, but be wary of putting time
> holes in your work history as well.  If you have more than 2 "pages" worth
> of work history, rely on the job title line to indicate to your potential
> employer if the position is relevant to them.  Again, formatting is key and
> good luck beating the experts at LinkedIn on that.
>
> Similarly, don't bother with irrelevant padding to fill some
> artificial minimum of this "paper" stuff that is still around, but don't be
> afraid to say who you are either.  The text in your resume is an example of
> your written communication skills, so if you are job hunting, you should
> review it every day looking for mistakes and improvements in getting to the
> point and clarity.  Take this email as an excellent counter example. ;-)
>
> I think the cover letter (or submission email in modern terms) is where to
> do your customizing.  Highlight a few keys things that are most relevant to
> the job in question.  If they like those bits, they will likely read the
> rest and probably want to talk to you.
>
>
> ___
> Alan Johnson
> a...@datdec.com
> Date Format PSA 
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 11:49 AM, Kenny Lussier  wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Not specifically Linux-related, but I was wondering what other people are
>> seeing/doing with resumes these days. I have seen everything from a 2-page
>> resume for someone with 20 years of experience to a 15-page resume for
>> someone with 2 jobs over 3 years (it looked like the output of cat
>> ~/.bash_history). How far back should a resume go? How long should it be
>> before yo

Re: Resume length and history

[Alan Johnson]

There has been some good advise posted here already, but I will just add
that I have landed my last 2 jobs with nothing more than a LinkedIn
profile.  My current one was a cold submission electronic submission to a
company where I knew no one.  I had an offer about a week after sending the
email.  When the fit is right, it is right, and a good resume will get you
in the door.  That said, it was surely an outlier.  I fully support the
idea that it is usually more about finding some way to make a personal
connection, especially if the fit is not glaringly obvious, but you had
better have something decent to submit into their system to back up your
charm.

I stopped bothering to keep a separate resume up to date many years ago.
 You can export LinkedIn to PDF which is what I use when asked to submit
something electronically when requested.  For my current job (interviewed
almost 2 years ago) I don't think I even bothered to bring paper copies to
the interview.  When I was on the flip side of things, I always wished
people would stop doing that, but I'm sure there are still stall-warts out
there who will check to see if you are "prepared" by asking for a copy of
your resume.  Frankly, I don't want to work for those folks if I have other
options.  These days, I'd just bust out my android.

My last job was with one of the top recruiting firms in the world.  We had
the leading technical offering for recruiters to find candidates.  When I
started there, resume-handling was mostly electronic and shifted heavily
toward it over the years.  Now, it is nearly all electronic.  Even most
small businesses do candidate sourcing on the web.  For tech jobs, it is
almost exclusively electronic.

I only say all this because the 2 page limit is not terribly relevant in a
well formatted and easily searched (visually that is) electronic document,
especially for IT folks.  I just keep all the work history in there.  Well,
everything relevant to any job I might want in the future.  =)  I dropped
my high school jobs a while back, but I've been paid to do computer stuff
since college and, for example, I think it still impresses employers to see
that I worked a help desk on the largest trading floor in New England
between my Freshman and Sophomore years.  You have to decide for your self
if each bit of work experience is necessary, but be wary of putting time
holes in your work history as well.  If you have more than 2 "pages" worth
of work history, rely on the job title line to indicate to your potential
employer if the position is relevant to them.  Again, formatting is key and
good luck beating the experts at LinkedIn on that.

Similarly, don't bother with irrelevant padding to fill some
artificial minimum of this "paper" stuff that is still around, but don't be
afraid to say who you are either.  The text in your resume is an example of
your written communication skills, so if you are job hunting, you should
review it every day looking for mistakes and improvements in getting to the
point and clarity.  Take this email as an excellent counter example. ;-)

I think the cover letter (or submission email in modern terms) is where to
do your customizing.  Highlight a few keys things that are most relevant to
the job in question.  If they like those bits, they will likely read the
rest and probably want to talk to you.


___
Alan Johnson
a...@datdec.com
Date Format PSA 


On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 11:49 AM, Kenny Lussier  wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Not specifically Linux-related, but I was wondering what other people are
> seeing/doing with resumes these days. I have seen everything from a 2-page
> resume for someone with 20 years of experience to a 15-page resume for
> someone with 2 jobs over 3 years (it looked like the output of cat
> ~/.bash_history). How far back should a resume go? How long should it be
> before you stop reading it? I'm seeing absolutely no consistency in
> resumes, and the ones that come from recruiters seem to be the worst
> formats.
>
> C-Ya,
> Kenny
>
>
> ___
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> http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
>
>
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Re: Resume length and history

[Tom Buskey]

1st know your audience.  Is it going through a keyword scanner?  Is a
friend bringing it in?  Even if it has to go through the scanner?

I'll have a keyword section at the end nowadays.  I've heard of someone
being passed over by the scanner for lack of "unix" even though they had
"linux".  They had a friend asking HR where it was.

As someone who has done interviews, I don't care about the font, what kind
of paper, etc.  I might get a fax of it from the recruiter.  I'll never see
the original paper its on.

When I say I below, I mean "The person reviewing your resume or
interviewing you".  It's not personal.

I *do* care about how it is written.  If it doesn't sum things up
concisely, I'm less interested.  You should be able to express your
accomplishments appropriately.  If you are not clear on your resume (where
you've had time to work) I know you're not going to be clear when you have
less time.  Maybe there's something on your resume that might make me
overlook that, but why take the chance?

I might have gotten your resume from HR or my manager 10 minutes before I
go in to see you.  Or worse, be reading it as I walk in.  How many
interviewers hire the wrong one as a result?  Do you want to work for
someplace like this?  This was very common in the dotcom era I found.

I once turned down a 4th interview saying I had gotten another job.  They
begged me to come in because they had just fired the person I would
replace.  I politely did an interview, but they didn't notify the
interviewers that I needed to be convinced to stay.


On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 12:15 PM, Drew Van Zandt wrote:

> On the reviewing/receiving end, I generally find that unless it's a recent
> grad, one page is insufficient for a technical resume, two is about right,
> and a third page is generally only useful if the first two were pretty good.
>
> On the other end, I figure that's exactly what I'll write.  Two pages of
> meat, one page of e.g. nonprofessional experience that might be germane (I
> have technical hobbies).
>
> Trying to write a one-page resume is unbearable.
>
> Again on the receiving end, if a resume from a recruiter looks like hell
> but has a few interesting items, I'll sometimes email the prospect and ask
> for a copy of their resume that has not been ruined by recruiters.
>
> To any engineering recruiters on the list: Don't screw up your guys'
> resumes unless you are SURE you know what you're doing.  It gets in the way
> more often than not, in my experience.  I don't want to hear YOUR voice or
> get things in the format you think is important, I want to know what the
> ENGINEER thinks is important, in their voice, because that's what I'll be
> working with.
>
> Second/third putting education last unless you just graduated.  Mine is
> last except for a one-liner indicating I've had a Secret clearance before,
> in case it's germane, and a standard references-on-request tag.
>
> *
> Drew Van Zandt
> Cam # US2010035593 (M:Liam Hopkins R: Bastian Rotgeld)
> Domain Coordinator, MA-003-D.  Masquerade aVST
> *
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 12:06 PM, David Hardy wrote:
>
>> I'm nearly sixty and have had a bunch of jobs over the decades, not all
>> of them IT and not all of them Linux.  So I tailor the resume to the
>> specific position and keep it to two pages, max.  I then expand on whatever
>> in a cover letter and interview, if I get one.  I've seen other peoples'
>> resumes and it is as you describe;  no consistency and everything from
>> cryptic geek-speak acronyms to web-based sound-and-video productions to
>> eight pages of small print listing the person's detailed life history.  I
>> have also help to edit/fix resumes for people and had them down to nice,
>> concise, informative two-page deals and then they insisted I hadn't
>> included enough info and gone back to their four- and six-page horrors and
>> never got called for an interview thereafter, becauseyesthe
>> screening HR drones tossed them instantly.
>>
>> It is also worth noting that the last stat I saw on this indicated that
>> there is a roughly four-percent retention and examination of resumes in
>> general.  The rest, 96%, are tossed.
>>
>> In my half-century of experience, jobs are gotten by getting via hook or
>> crook to the hiring manager and showing them how you can help them/make
>> their job easier.  Period.
>>
>> Regards from northwestern Vermont, under the F-16s
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 11:49 AM, Kenny Lussier wrote:
>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> Not specifically Linux-related, but I was wondering what other people
>>> are seeing/doing with resumes these days. I have seen everything from a
>>> 2-page resume for someone with 20 years of experience to a 15-page resume
>>> for someone with 2 jobs over 3 years (it looked like the output of cat
>>> ~/.bash_history). How far back should a resume go? How long should it be
>>> before you stop reading it? I'm seeing absolutely no consistency in
>>> resumes, and the ones that come from recr

Re: Resume length and history

[Drew Van Zandt]

On the reviewing/receiving end, I generally find that unless it's a recent
grad, one page is insufficient for a technical resume, two is about right,
and a third page is generally only useful if the first two were pretty good.

On the other end, I figure that's exactly what I'll write.  Two pages of
meat, one page of e.g. nonprofessional experience that might be germane (I
have technical hobbies).

Trying to write a one-page resume is unbearable.

Again on the receiving end, if a resume from a recruiter looks like hell
but has a few interesting items, I'll sometimes email the prospect and ask
for a copy of their resume that has not been ruined by recruiters.

To any engineering recruiters on the list: Don't screw up your guys'
resumes unless you are SURE you know what you're doing.  It gets in the way
more often than not, in my experience.  I don't want to hear YOUR voice or
get things in the format you think is important, I want to know what the
ENGINEER thinks is important, in their voice, because that's what I'll be
working with.

Second/third putting education last unless you just graduated.  Mine is
last except for a one-liner indicating I've had a Secret clearance before,
in case it's germane, and a standard references-on-request tag.

*
Drew Van Zandt
Cam # US2010035593 (M:Liam Hopkins R: Bastian Rotgeld)
Domain Coordinator, MA-003-D.  Masquerade aVST
*


On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 12:06 PM, David Hardy wrote:

> I'm nearly sixty and have had a bunch of jobs over the decades, not all of
> them IT and not all of them Linux.  So I tailor the resume to the specific
> position and keep it to two pages, max.  I then expand on whatever in a
> cover letter and interview, if I get one.  I've seen other peoples' resumes
> and it is as you describe;  no consistency and everything from cryptic
> geek-speak acronyms to web-based sound-and-video productions to eight pages
> of small print listing the person's detailed life history.  I have also
> help to edit/fix resumes for people and had them down to nice, concise,
> informative two-page deals and then they insisted I hadn't included enough
> info and gone back to their four- and six-page horrors and never got called
> for an interview thereafter, becauseyesthe screening HR drones
> tossed them instantly.
>
> It is also worth noting that the last stat I saw on this indicated that
> there is a roughly four-percent retention and examination of resumes in
> general.  The rest, 96%, are tossed.
>
> In my half-century of experience, jobs are gotten by getting via hook or
> crook to the hiring manager and showing them how you can help them/make
> their job easier.  Period.
>
> Regards from northwestern Vermont, under the F-16s
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 11:49 AM, Kenny Lussier  wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Not specifically Linux-related, but I was wondering what other people are
>> seeing/doing with resumes these days. I have seen everything from a 2-page
>> resume for someone with 20 years of experience to a 15-page resume for
>> someone with 2 jobs over 3 years (it looked like the output of cat
>> ~/.bash_history). How far back should a resume go? How long should it be
>> before you stop reading it? I'm seeing absolutely no consistency in
>> resumes, and the ones that come from recruiters seem to be the worst
>> formats.
>>
>> C-Ya,
>> Kenny
>>
>>
>> ___
>> gnhlug-discuss mailing list
>> gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org
>> http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
>>
>>
>
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>
>
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Re: Resume length and history

[Richard Kolb II]

I signed up for the website called The Ladders, and paid for the membership
that gave me a resume critique.  I found that to be very helpful and I
seemed to get more interest out of it than I did my old, one page resume.

I remember some of the comments, things like:

   - You have over 12 years experience, your schooling should no longer be
   the first thing on your resume.
   - You should start with a summary about yourself, followed by skill set
   - list all of your employment with bullet lists (handy because I love
   bullet lists) about what you did, things you accomplished
   - list facts, like 'developed an integration handoff plan that cut
   integration time by 40%' or 'cut development costs by designing for reuse,
   saving the company $12 million.'
   - end with your education


now I was told that my education should be last, because it was the oldest
thing on there, I don't know if you'd want to list things like a timeline,
say if you just finished a masters or whatever.

Pretty much exactly what Brian just sent.

I've also had good luck with Linkedin


On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 11:49 AM, Kenny Lussier  wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Not specifically Linux-related, but I was wondering what other people are
> seeing/doing with resumes these days. I have seen everything from a 2-page
> resume for someone with 20 years of experience to a 15-page resume for
> someone with 2 jobs over 3 years (it looked like the output of cat
> ~/.bash_history). How far back should a resume go? How long should it be
> before you stop reading it? I'm seeing absolutely no consistency in
> resumes, and the ones that come from recruiters seem to be the worst
> formats.
>
> C-Ya,
> Kenny
>
>
> ___
> gnhlug-discuss mailing list
> gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org
> http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
>
>


-- 
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Re: Resume length and history

[David Hardy]

I'm nearly sixty and have had a bunch of jobs over the decades, not all of
them IT and not all of them Linux.  So I tailor the resume to the specific
position and keep it to two pages, max.  I then expand on whatever in a
cover letter and interview, if I get one.  I've seen other peoples' resumes
and it is as you describe;  no consistency and everything from cryptic
geek-speak acronyms to web-based sound-and-video productions to eight pages
of small print listing the person's detailed life history.  I have also
help to edit/fix resumes for people and had them down to nice, concise,
informative two-page deals and then they insisted I hadn't included enough
info and gone back to their four- and six-page horrors and never got called
for an interview thereafter, becauseyesthe screening HR drones
tossed them instantly.

It is also worth noting that the last stat I saw on this indicated that
there is a roughly four-percent retention and examination of resumes in
general.  The rest, 96%, are tossed.

In my half-century of experience, jobs are gotten by getting via hook or
crook to the hiring manager and showing them how you can help them/make
their job easier.  Period.

Regards from northwestern Vermont, under the F-16s




On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 11:49 AM, Kenny Lussier  wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Not specifically Linux-related, but I was wondering what other people are
> seeing/doing with resumes these days. I have seen everything from a 2-page
> resume for someone with 20 years of experience to a 15-page resume for
> someone with 2 jobs over 3 years (it looked like the output of cat
> ~/.bash_history). How far back should a resume go? How long should it be
> before you stop reading it? I'm seeing absolutely no consistency in
> resumes, and the ones that come from recruiters seem to be the worst
> formats.
>
> C-Ya,
> Kenny
>
>
> ___
> gnhlug-discuss mailing list
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>
>
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Re: Resume length and history

[Brian Chabot]

I just landed a temp-to-perm job at a pretty awesome company with a 3-page
resume that goes back to my first computer job in 1999.  My resume is heavy
on job experience because I only have an AS degree and the jobs I
was looking for were "Bachelors or equivalent" level.

If you want to take a peek, it's online over at
http://brianchabot.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/bchabot.pdf

Brian


On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 11:49 AM, Kenny Lussier  wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Not specifically Linux-related, but I was wondering what other people are
> seeing/doing with resumes these days. I have seen everything from a 2-page
> resume for someone with 20 years of experience to a 15-page resume for
> someone with 2 jobs over 3 years (it looked like the output of cat
> ~/.bash_history). How far back should a resume go? How long should it be
> before you stop reading it? I'm seeing absolutely no consistency in
> resumes, and the ones that come from recruiters seem to be the worst
> formats.
>
> C-Ya,
> Kenny
>
>
> ___
> gnhlug-discuss mailing list
> gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org
> http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
>
>
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Resume length and history

[Kenny Lussier]

Hi All,

Not specifically Linux-related, but I was wondering what other people are
seeing/doing with resumes these days. I have seen everything from a 2-page
resume for someone with 20 years of experience to a 15-page resume for
someone with 2 jobs over 3 years (it looked like the output of cat
~/.bash_history). How far back should a resume go? How long should it be
before you stop reading it? I'm seeing absolutely no consistency in
resumes, and the ones that come from recruiters seem to be the worst
formats.

C-Ya,
Kenny
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