Re: Linux hosting options, pros and cons
Paul Lussier wrote: What are you doing with svn? RCS for source code. Knowing how you use will probably tell me enough to figure out what's going on. I use it as a client both from home and from my WebFaction account (when logged in via ssh). Access is via https, the repository is at https://svn.xxx.webfactional.com. I use the command-line client and a couple of GUI clients. I can also view the repository directly from a browser using the same URL. Kent ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Linux hosting options, pros and cons
On 3/9/07, Paul Lussier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thomas Charron [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On 3/9/07, Paul Lussier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kent Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Trac and svn are running as CGIs behind Apache. I have access to the app-specific config files but not the Apache instance that runs them. What do you mean by this? How is svn run as a CGI behind Apache? SVN uses webdav. No, svn does not *use* WebDAV. Apache has the ability to export an SVN repository via WebDAV because svn *uses* the APR. Regardless, this has absolutely nothing to do with the statement that 'Trac and svn are running as CGIs behind Apache. I had assumed he meant he was using mod_dav_svn, and had incorrectly assumed it was some sort of CGI. -- -- Thomas ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Linux hosting options, pros and cons
trying again, first time didn't seem to get through Ted Roche wrote: A client with a database-backed LAMP application is considering moving to a new hosting provider for their system. Surfing the web, they find all of these $6.95/month deals and can't figure out why anyone would pay more. I know there are a number of folks on the list who provide such services for themselves or their customers, and would welcome feedback, from what questions should be asked to what features we should be looking at. (I should explain we - I am the developer of the app, and an adequate sysadmin, and will likely end up installing, configuring and maintaining the system) In my new job I am hosting a web site at WebFactional. I thought you might be interested in some first impressions. We are hosted at the Shared 1 level ($9.50 / month). At present I am running a minimal Django app, a Trac site and a Subversion repository on the site. I can ssh and rsync to the site. Trac and svn are running as CGIs behind Apache. I have access to the app-specific config files but not the Apache instance that runs them. Django is running in mod_python behind a private instance of Apache that AFAICT I control completely - I can edit the http.conf, restart the server, etc. I have my own site-packages folder and my own Django installation. It was painless to replace the stock Django (9.5.1 release) with the current svn trunk - just deleted the stock folder and svn co the trunk. As I understand it, there is a master Apache server that is the front end. This server serves static files and forwards dynamic requests to my owned server which runs mod_python and Django. There are three running httpd processes. It seems like httpd + mod_python + Django takes about 13-14MB. So with three instances running I am bumping up against the 40MB memory limit. This is a very small site at this point - basically a Django Admin interface to a single SQLite table in a 250K database. So the Shared 1 plan is kind of marginal for this. I am planning to upgrade to Shared 2 so I don't have to worry about it. I did bump over the memory limit a few days ago due to a memory leak (mine), the response from WebFaction was to post a trouble ticket asking me what I was going to do about it. So that is pretty gentle, they didn't shut down the site or restart the server for me or anything draconian. Setup is pretty easy. Most of it is handled with a control panel that lets you set up applications (Django, Trac, svn) and domains and link them together. There are numerous screencasts to walk you through the config. There is also a forum that answers a lot of questions and has specific configuration tips. I am a linux novice - I don't freak out when faced with a bash shell, but I don't know how to configure Apache either. I have had a few times when I have had to muddle through but mostly it has gone smoothly. Support is by email. I have asked a couple of questions and received replies within 24 hours. Not great turnaround but the answers were accurate - in each case I was answered by Remi Delon who runs the site. Can't answer about reliability yet, the site is new and not open to the public. Most of the rest of what you ask for below is available but I have not had to use it. Hardware is Dual Xeon 2.4 Ghz with 4 GB RAM. I seem to be sharing the machine with about 80 other users at the moment. Bandwidth: minimal. The system is a custom query application used by a small number of customers. Data is plain 'ol HTML with a few token branding graphics. Yes, 200GB / month. Basic software requirements: Linux Red Hat Apache 2.x Apache/2.0.52 (Red Hat) mod_python/3.2.8 Python/2.4.4 SSL Yes PHP 4.3 or better with the ability to add PEAR modules PHP is available, not sure which version. My experience with Django is that I can add modules; my guess is it would be the same with PHP. MySQL 4.1.19 or later or 5.1 Not sure which version, 5.something I think ssh/scp access, preferably on a non-standard port ssh/scp/sftp yes. Don't know about changing the port rsync support yes ability to add custom cron jobs yes though apparently cron can't send mail http://forum.webfaction.com/viewtopic.php?id=2 outgoing email, a few a day. Yes, my Trac instance is configured to send mail and that is working fine. Storage: data is dinky, a couple of megabytes, HTML, CSS and .js files a few hundred K Yes, 2GB on the Shared 1 plan. Reliability: of course, clients expect web presence to work like dialtone: five 9's at no extra cost. A flaky ISP who blinks on and off is obviously undesirable, but the client is not going to pay for their own standby diesel generator, either. What's a realistic expectation, and how closely is it tied to you get what you pay for? In terms of mission-criticality, uptime is good, but going black during a natural disaster is not a deal-breaker, as long as the machine does a good shutdown and recovery. Don't know yet.
Re: Linux hosting options, pros and cons
On Mar 9, 2007, at 6:28 AM, Kent Johnson wrote: In my new job I am hosting a web site at WebFactional. I thought you might be interested in some first impressions. We are hosted at the Shared 1 level ($9.50 / month). At present I am running a minimal Django app, a Trac site and a Subversion repository on the site. I can ssh and rsync to the site. Wow. hard to believe a site with so many features can be feasible at $10 a month! Thanks for the detailed response! Ted Roche Ted Roche Associates, LLC http://www.tedroche.com ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Linux hosting options, pros and cons
On Fri, Mar 09, 2007 at 06:28:29AM -0500, Kent Johnson wrote: trying again, first time didn't seem to get through Ted Roche wrote: A client with a database-backed LAMP application is considering moving to a new hosting provider for their system. Surfing the web, they find all of these $6.95/month deals and can't figure out why anyone would pay more. I know there are a number of folks on the list who provide such services for themselves or their customers, and would welcome feedback, from what questions should be asked to what features we should be looking at. (I should explain we - I am the developer of the app, and an adequate sysadmin, and will likely end up installing, configuring and maintaining the system) In my new job I am hosting a web site at WebFactional. I thought you might be interested in some first impressions. I believe webfaction -- which it looks like is the same thing as webfactional -- is run by the same people as python-hosting/python-hosted. When hosting a project (trac + svn) there, at one point the machine we were hosting on failed, and we lost 5 days worth of wiki and SVN edits. (The nightly backups were corrupted or something similar.) This doesn't include the fact that before we found this out there was approximately 48 hours of downtime. Obviously, this is a rare circumstance. A number of different circumstances conspired to bring the situation to where it ended up. It was, however, enough for us to take on the responsibility and move our trac/SVN hosting in house, giving python hosting the boot. They were extremely apologetic and duly chastised by the experience, and I'm sure things have changed, and as I said, it did seem to be an isolated incident, but it was several man-days of work that was just gone. Just my personal experience with what I think is the same people. Regards, -- Christopher Schmidt Web Developer ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Linux hosting options, pros and cons
Christopher Schmidt wrote: On Fri, Mar 09, 2007 at 06:28:29AM -0500, Kent Johnson wrote: In my new job I am hosting a web site at WebFactional. I thought you might be interested in some first impressions. I believe webfaction -- which it looks like is the same thing as webfactional -- is run by the same people as python-hosting/python-hosted. Yes, you are right on both counts. WebFaction.com is the main site for the provider. My domain is a subdomain of webfactional.com (until our real domain name is hosted there which we have not done yet). And WebFaction used to be called python-hosting.com. It is run by Remi Delon who is the main developer behind CherryPy. Kent ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Linux hosting options, pros and cons
Kent Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Trac and svn are running as CGIs behind Apache. I have access to the app-specific config files but not the Apache instance that runs them. What do you mean by this? How is svn run as a CGI behind Apache? -- Seeya, Paul -- Key fingerprint = 1660 FECC 5D21 D286 F853 E808 BB07 9239 53F1 28EE A: Yes. Q: Are you sure? A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. Q: Why is top posting annoying in email? ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Linux hosting options, pros and cons
On 3/9/07, Paul Lussier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kent Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Trac and svn are running as CGIs behind Apache. I have access to the app-specific config files but not the Apache instance that runs them. What do you mean by this? How is svn run as a CGI behind Apache? SVN uses webdav. -- -- Thomas ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Linux hosting options, pros and cons
Thomas Charron [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On 3/9/07, Paul Lussier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kent Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Trac and svn are running as CGIs behind Apache. I have access to the app-specific config files but not the Apache instance that runs them. What do you mean by this? How is svn run as a CGI behind Apache? SVN uses webdav. No, svn does not *use* WebDAV. Apache has the ability to export an SVN repository via WebDAV because svn *uses* the APR. Regardless, this has absolutely nothing to do with the statement that 'Trac and svn are running as CGIs behind Apache. I don't know what Trac is, but I know quite well what svn is and how it works having once been the release manager for it. My question is still unanswered. How is svn running as a CGI behind Apache? This seems a non-sensical statement to me, unless you mean there's a CGI run by Apache which invokes svn commands. Or, do you mean WebSVN (which is quite different from svn) is being run as a CGI from Apache? -- Seeya, Paul -- Key fingerprint = 1660 FECC 5D21 D286 F853 E808 BB07 9239 53F1 28EE A: Yes. Q: Are you sure? A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. Q: Why is top posting annoying in email? ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Linux hosting options, pros and cons
Paul Lussier wrote: Kent Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Trac and svn are running as CGIs behind Apache. I have access to the app-specific config files but not the Apache instance that runs them. What do you mean by this? How is svn run as a CGI behind Apache? My apologies. As I said, I am a linux novice. I actually don't know how svn is hosted. Django is definitely mod_python. I'm pretty sure Trac is CGI. I'm pretty sure svn is *not* hosted on my private Apache and does not have a process running under my user. I assumed that it was also CGI but I may well have been mistaken. Kent ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Linux hosting options, pros and cons
Kent Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My apologies. As I said, I am a linux novice. I actually don't know how svn is hosted. Django is definitely mod_python. I'm pretty sure Trac is CGI. I'm pretty sure svn is *not* hosted on my private Apache and does not have a process running under my user. I assumed that it was also CGI but I may well have been mistaken. Quite okay, and no apology necessary :) I'm just trying to figure out what you meant. Perhaps a better question would be: What are you doing with svn? Knowing how you use will probably tell me enough to figure out what's going on. -- Seeya, Paul -- Key fingerprint = 1660 FECC 5D21 D286 F853 E808 BB07 9239 53F1 28EE A: Yes. Q: Are you sure? A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. Q: Why is top posting annoying in email? ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Linux hosting options, pros and cons
Ted Roche wrote: A client with a database-backed LAMP application is considering moving to a new hosting provider for their system. Surfing the web, they find all of these $6.95/month deals and can't figure out why anyone would pay more. I know there are a number of folks on the list who provide such services for themselves or their customers, and would welcome feedback, from what questions should be asked to what features we should be looking at. (I should explain we - I am the developer of the app, and an adequate sysadmin, and will likely end up installing, configuring and maintaining the system) Bandwidth: minimal. The system is a custom query application used by a small number of customers. Data is plain 'ol HTML with a few token branding graphics. Basic software requirements: Linux Apache 2.x SSL PHP 4.3 or better with the ability to add PEAR modules MySQL 4.1.19 or later or 5.1 ssh/scp access, preferably on a non-standard port rsync support ability to add custom cron jobs outgoing email, a few a day. Barring SSH/SCP and RSYNC, ICDSoft provides the above for $6 per month. I have used them for some years happily. You can get SSH and RSYNC, but you need to explicitly ask for a shell account and you'll be on a different class system, which I have not used. The pricing was the same. Storage: data is dinky, a couple of megabytes, HTML, CSS and .js files a few hundred K 1 GB storage, 20 GB bandwidth per month for ICDSoft Reliability: of course, clients expect web presence to work like dialtone: five 9's at no extra cost. For the five servers we use with ICDSoft, four had uptime stats of 99.967% and one 99.997%. They all used to be 100%, but their upstream provider for the Boston location messed up rather badly (failed to have a functioning failover line, contrary to the SLA, and did not have any spare parts to fix a failed router) and created a 7 hour outage. That has been the only outage in our five years with ICDSoft. Out of 1314720 minutes (913 days) uptime for one of the servers (all are similar times), there were 426 minutes downtime. Before the upstream messup it was 2 minutes downtime (which was scheduled). Security: Client requires https communications, so a certificate is mandatory. Only one httrps per IPaddress/port combination, so an ISP would be charging extra for that, too. No additional charge for SSL support. Get your own certificate from whomever and they'll install it. I prefer Thawte, but have used those cheapy chained certs without any problems for other clients. The data is confidential business information, so there would be a concern with sharing an instance of MySQL and Apache. What are opinions of the current technologies of VMs and VPSes and UMLs? From my viewpoint with ICDSoft, I appear to have separate MySQL areas. I have never tried to break such isolation though. I do have two clients on the same host and the only way to share data between them is by enabling remote connections, which are off by default. I have asked if there was another method. My other recommendation is MV Communications. The only outages I experienced was due to the city-wide (Manchester) very long outages. My first criteria for vendors is level of support. MV is a pleasure to work with. ICDSoft uses a web-based system, which emails you when they answer. They guarantee one hour response time, but the longest I ever waited was 23 minutes. They apologized as they had had an earthquake. The average response time is 3.4 minutes for me over the 115 questions I've posed to them (excluding the 23 minute reply). More importantly, all of the answers have been correct. Hope this helps some. -- Dan Jenkins ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Rastech Inc., Bedford, NH, USA --- 1-603-206-9951 *** Technical Support Excellence for over a Quarter Century ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Linux hosting options, pros and cons
A client with a database-backed LAMP application is considering moving to a new hosting provider for their system. Surfing the web, they find all of these $6.95/month deals and can't figure out why anyone would pay more. I know there are a number of folks on the list who provide such services for themselves or their customers, and would welcome feedback, from what questions should be asked to what features we should be looking at. (I should explain we - I am the developer of the app, and an adequate sysadmin, and will likely end up installing, configuring and maintaining the system) Bandwidth: minimal. The system is a custom query application used by a small number of customers. Data is plain 'ol HTML with a few token branding graphics. Basic software requirements: Linux Apache 2.x SSL PHP 4.3 or better with the ability to add PEAR modules MySQL 4.1.19 or later or 5.1 ssh/scp access, preferably on a non-standard port rsync support ability to add custom cron jobs outgoing email, a few a day. Storage: data is dinky, a couple of megabytes, HTML, CSS and .js files a few hundred K Reliability: of course, clients expect web presence to work like dialtone: five 9's at no extra cost. A flaky ISP who blinks on and off is obviously undesirable, but the client is not going to pay for their own standby diesel generator, either. What's a realistic expectation, and how closely is it tied to you get what you pay for? In terms of mission-criticality, uptime is good, but going black during a natural disaster is not a deal-breaker, as long as the machine does a good shutdown and recovery. Security: Client requires https communications, so a certificate is mandatory. Only one httrps per IPaddress/port combination, so an ISP would be charging extra for that, too. The data is confidential business information, so there would be a concern with sharing an instance of MySQL and Apache. What are opinions of the current technologies of VMs and VPSes and UMLs? So, what are folks doing, and why? Ted Roche Ted Roche Associates, LLC http://www.tedroche.com ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Linux hosting options, pros and cons
A client with a database-backed LAMP application is considering moving to a new hosting provider for their system. Surfing the web, they find all of these $6.95/month deals and can't figure out why anyone would pay more. I know there are a number of folks on the list who provide such services for themselves or their customers, and would welcome feedback, from what questions should be asked to what features we should be looking at. (I should explain we - I am the developer of the app, and an adequate sysadmin, and will likely end up installing, configuring and maintaining the system) From what I've seen most of these $10/month deals fail for some of your requirements. SSL I doubt you'll be able to find SSL for such low cost. Since most low cost webhosting is just shared virtual hosting. You can't do that with SSL. The few that do will only offer a shared site certificate and probably require you to use a less then ideal url to access secure pages. PHP 4.3 or better with the ability to add PEAR modules Ability to add any modules will probably be limited, if allowed at all. MySQL 4.1.19 or later or 5.1 Again, if a shared webhosting company even has MySQL, it will probably be shared with other customers, and you'll most likely only get one DB. ssh/scp access, preferably on a non-standard port Even with higher end webhosting, unless you own/rent the machine/ virtualserver you probably won't be able to do something on a non- standard port. ability to add custom cron jobs With the low cost webhosting you'll be lucky to get a prompt. My advice would be either to rent/buy/lease a server or find someplace that can give you a virtualserver. Keep in mind that most virtual server setups I've seen for this kind of thing have been FreeBSD jail systems (not that it's a problem, just an observation).. Brian Karas (from the list) does a personal colocation service (http://karas.net/colo/index.html). My box is hosted with him and I have no complaints. -Travis ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Linux hosting options, pros and cons
I've used dailyrazor for myself( shared account) and for a friends business( dedicated server). Not perfect but decent access. Selected because of reasonable price( not the cheapest), their knowledge of tomcat server. Downside - tech support is not right away. - Original Message From: Ted Roche [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: gnhlug User Group gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org Sent: Wednesday, February 7, 2007 11:44:35 AM Subject: Linux hosting options, pros and cons A client with a database-backed LAMP application is considering moving to a new hosting provider for their system. Surfing the web, they find all of these $6.95/month deals and can't figure out why anyone would pay more. I know there are a number of folks on the list who provide such services for themselves or their customers, and would welcome feedback, from what questions should be asked to what features we should be looking at. (I should explain we - I am the developer of the app, and an adequate sysadmin, and will likely end up installing, configuring and maintaining the system) Bandwidth: minimal. The system is a custom query application used by a small number of customers. Data is plain 'ol HTML with a few token branding graphics. Basic software requirements: Linux Apache 2.x SSL PHP 4.3 or better with the ability to add PEAR modules MySQL 4.1.19 or later or 5.1 ssh/scp access, preferably on a non-standard port rsync support ability to add custom cron jobs outgoing email, a few a day. Storage: data is dinky, a couple of megabytes, HTML, CSS and .js files a few hundred K Reliability: of course, clients expect web presence to work like dialtone: five 9's at no extra cost. A flaky ISP who blinks on and off is obviously undesirable, but the client is not going to pay for their own standby diesel generator, either. What's a realistic expectation, and how closely is it tied to you get what you pay for? In terms of mission-criticality, uptime is good, but going black during a natural disaster is not a deal-breaker, as long as the machine does a good shutdown and recovery. Security: Client requires https communications, so a certificate is mandatory. Only one httrps per IPaddress/port combination, so an ISP would be charging extra for that, too. The data is confidential business information, so there would be a concern with sharing an instance of MySQL and Apache. What are opinions of the current technologies of VMs and VPSes and UMLs? So, what are folks doing, and why? Ted Roche Ted Roche Associates, LLC http://www.tedroche.com ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/ ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Linux hosting options, pros and cons
So, what are folks doing, and why? I don't have any experience with places that do VMs. As has already been stated, a shared webhosting is not likely to meet a number of your requirements. I have shared hosting with Dreamhost (and have for years). They also do dedicated. Shared: http://dreamhost.com/hosting.html Dedicated: http://dreamhost.com/hosting-dedicated.html (plug: during signup, there's a place to fill in referals, fill in my domain, eth0.net and I get a free month of service) :) For aninmeondvd.com, that I do some sysadmin work for, I worked with the site owner to migrate to local hoster Inet-Services. http://www.inet-svcs.com/ Their dedicated hosting is incredibly competitive. They run on Dell hardware. They're headquartered in Natick. They do their dedicated and colocation out of Boston Data Centers in Charlestown. I've visited BDC, and it's a quality data center facility. Presales questions to Inet Services were answered quickly and competently. Tech support questions to thru their webform/email are very promptly responded to. In fact, we had problems where our site was massively slow. They got on the phone with me, and pretty quickly figured out we were pegging our bandwidth. I got the ok from the site owner to add additional bandwidth to our bill, and the tech upped us while on the phone, and a minute or so later, problems cleared up. In fact, we've had more problems with Network Solutions DNS servers going down (we still have DNS hosted over there), than we have with any site/hardware/network problems at Inet Services. Their colo is very reasonably priced as well. Come springtime, I'm probably going to put a 1U box in with them (85$/mo + bandwidth for 1U). -Shawn ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Linux hosting options, pros and cons
Travis Roy wrote: From what I've seen most of these $10/month deals fail for some of your requirements. I don't have experience with them myself, but from the information available on their website it seems WebFaction offers much more than you indicate below. For $9.50 a month (less if you pay by the year) you get the following (text is from their website): SSL I doubt you'll be able to find SSL for such low cost. Since most low cost webhosting is just shared virtual hosting. You can't do that with SSL. The few that do will only offer a shared site certificate and probably require you to use a less then ideal url to access secure pages. SSL - Yes - If you want to use a trusted certificate (no popup) you'll need your own IP address which is charged at +$5/month. PHP 4.3 or better with the ability to add PEAR modules Ability to add any modules will probably be limited, if allowed at all. From static HTML, PHP and CGI to Rails, Django, Turbogears and Plone, these plans let you run any software you want. You can even install your own custom software in your home directory We provide PHP-5 with lots of modules (mysql, postgres, gd, zlib, curl, freetype, pspell, mbstring, xsl, ...). MySQL 4.1.19 or later or 5.1 Again, if a shared webhosting company even has MySQL, it will probably be shared with other customers, and you'll most likely only get one DB. MySql or PostgreSql databases 5 not clear which version ssh/scp access, preferably on a non-standard port Even with higher end webhosting, unless you own/rent the machine/ virtualserver you probably won't be able to do something on a non- standard port. Full shell account with SSH and sFTP access Yes ability to add custom cron jobs With the low cost webhosting you'll be lucky to get a prompt. Can I run cron jobs ? Yes you can. Note however that if your cron jobs run too often or take too long to execute they will be considered as long-running processes and you will need to take this into account while choosing your plan. Kent ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Linux hosting options, pros and cons
You are already getting replies, but here's more. On Wed, 2007-02-07 at 11:44 -0500, Ted Roche wrote: A client with a database-backed LAMP application is considering moving to a new hosting provider for their system. Surfing the web, they find all of these $6.95/month deals and can't figure out why anyone would pay more. Try to find a phone number for those folks. Usually support is only available through email. If the site is used to post pictures of the grand-kids, that's probably good enough. If something goes wrong and you want it fixed in hours, you probably need a phone number. I know there are a number of folks on the list who provide such services for themselves or their customers, and would welcome feedback, from what questions should be asked to what features we should be looking at. (I should explain we - I am the developer of the app, and an adequate sysadmin, and will likely end up installing, configuring and maintaining the system) Back in my days of being an ISP, I neglected the web hosting side of the business because I thought it was too hard to compete against the cheap hosting outfits. That was a mistake. Your local ISP will provide hosting at reasonable monthly rates ($20 - $50) and provide real support. (A local ISP who is still in business succeeds because of the support provided to customers.) You need to realize that $7/month is not going to include much beyond static web pages. The main downsides to your relying on you local ISP is likely to be somewhat limited bandwidth and limited backup power. The upside will be having a vendor who actually values your business and who has the expertise to help you succeed. MV would be a good place to start. Bandwidth: minimal. The system is a custom query application used by a small number of customers. Data is plain 'ol HTML with a few token branding graphics. Basic software requirements: Linux Apache 2.x SSL PHP 4.3 or better with the ability to add PEAR modules MySQL 4.1.19 or later or 5.1 ssh/scp access, preferably on a non-standard port rsync support ability to add custom cron jobs outgoing email, a few a day. Storage: data is dinky, a couple of megabytes, HTML, CSS and .js files a few hundred K Reliability: of course, clients expect web presence to work like dialtone: five 9's at no extra cost. A flaky ISP who blinks on and off is obviously undesirable, but the client is not going to pay for their own standby diesel generator, either. What's a realistic expectation, and how closely is it tied to you get what you pay for? In terms of mission-criticality, uptime is good, but going black during a natural disaster is not a deal-breaker, as long as the machine does a good shutdown and recovery. Security: Client requires https communications, so a certificate is mandatory. Only one httrps per IPaddress/port combination, so an ISP would be charging extra for that, too. The data is confidential business information, so there would be a concern with sharing an instance of MySQL and Apache. What are opinions of the current technologies of VMs and VPSes and UMLs? So, what are folks doing, and why? It sounds to me like data security could be a driving factor. I would not use virtual-web-site based hosting to distribute data that *must* be tightly controlled. In general, the virtual sites are publishing data to the world and read-permission security is not critical. You don't want to be the only web site on the server with top-secret data. A virtual server gives you near total control of the system. You should be able to configure any necessary security controls. If you are more paranoid, you would get your own dedicated hardware. I'm using tummy.com for my production virtual-server. Ted Roche Ted Roche Associates, LLC http://www.tedroche.com ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/ -- Lloyd Kvam Venix Corp ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Linux hosting options, pros and cons
I'd also very strongly recommend checking out site on WebHostingTalk.com - it's a hangout for industry insiders and those who do a lot of web hosting. Take it easy, David Berube Berube Consulting [EMAIL PROTECTED] (603)-485-9622 http://www.berubeconsulting.com/ Python wrote: You are already getting replies, but here's more. On Wed, 2007-02-07 at 11:44 -0500, Ted Roche wrote: A client with a database-backed LAMP application is considering moving to a new hosting provider for their system. Surfing the web, they find all of these $6.95/month deals and can't figure out why anyone would pay more. Try to find a phone number for those folks. Usually support is only available through email. If the site is used to post pictures of the grand-kids, that's probably good enough. If something goes wrong and you want it fixed in hours, you probably need a phone number. I know there are a number of folks on the list who provide such services for themselves or their customers, and would welcome feedback, from what questions should be asked to what features we should be looking at. (I should explain we - I am the developer of the app, and an adequate sysadmin, and will likely end up installing, configuring and maintaining the system) Back in my days of being an ISP, I neglected the web hosting side of the business because I thought it was too hard to compete against the cheap hosting outfits. That was a mistake. Your local ISP will provide hosting at reasonable monthly rates ($20 - $50) and provide real support. (A local ISP who is still in business succeeds because of the support provided to customers.) You need to realize that $7/month is not going to include much beyond static web pages. The main downsides to your relying on you local ISP is likely to be somewhat limited bandwidth and limited backup power. The upside will be having a vendor who actually values your business and who has the expertise to help you succeed. MV would be a good place to start. Bandwidth: minimal. The system is a custom query application used by a small number of customers. Data is plain 'ol HTML with a few token branding graphics. Basic software requirements: Linux Apache 2.x SSL PHP 4.3 or better with the ability to add PEAR modules MySQL 4.1.19 or later or 5.1 ssh/scp access, preferably on a non-standard port rsync support ability to add custom cron jobs outgoing email, a few a day. Storage: data is dinky, a couple of megabytes, HTML, CSS and .js files a few hundred K Reliability: of course, clients expect web presence to work like dialtone: five 9's at no extra cost. A flaky ISP who blinks on and off is obviously undesirable, but the client is not going to pay for their own standby diesel generator, either. What's a realistic expectation, and how closely is it tied to you get what you pay for? In terms of mission-criticality, uptime is good, but going black during a natural disaster is not a deal-breaker, as long as the machine does a good shutdown and recovery. Security: Client requires https communications, so a certificate is mandatory. Only one httrps per IPaddress/port combination, so an ISP would be charging extra for that, too. The data is confidential business information, so there would be a concern with sharing an instance of MySQL and Apache. What are opinions of the current technologies of VMs and VPSes and UMLs? So, what are folks doing, and why? It sounds to me like data security could be a driving factor. I would not use virtual-web-site based hosting to distribute data that *must* be tightly controlled. In general, the virtual sites are publishing data to the world and read-permission security is not critical. You don't want to be the only web site on the server with top-secret data. A virtual server gives you near total control of the system. You should be able to configure any necessary security controls. If you are more paranoid, you would get your own dedicated hardware. I'm using tummy.com for my production virtual-server. Ted Roche Ted Roche Associates, LLC http://www.tedroche.com ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/ ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Linux hosting options, pros and cons
On Feb 7, 2007, at 1:57 PM, Python wrote: You are already getting replies, but here's more. But everyone has different answers! Better to have many options to evaluate. Thanks, all, for the ideas! Ted Roche Ted Roche Associates, LLC http://www.tedroche.com ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
