Re: Boston Linux VIRTUAL Meeting , Wednesday, October 16, 2024 - September without End in October: Cryptology News Update and Historical Vignette

[Jerry Feldman]

On 9/12/24 9:19 PM, Jerry Feldman wrote:
> When: October 16, 2024 7:00PM EDT (6:30PM for Q&A)
>
> Topic: September without End in October: Cryptology News Update and 
> Historical Vignette
>
> Speakers:Bill Ricker
>
> Location: Online: https://meet.jit.si/blu.org
>
> We will not be live streaming as the YouTube the live streams have been
> failing partway through our meetings. We will be recording the meeting
> using Jitsi's recording feature.
>
> Summary:
>
> Bill's annual crypto and security roundup
>
> Abstract:
>
> Bill's annual crypto talk

> Please visit https://selfhostbook.com/buy/ [selfhostbook.com] to get 
> your own physical or digital copy of the book. Buying a book is the 
> best way to show your support. If you're unable to afford a copy, 
> scholarships are available. As you read the book, you're encouraged to 
> join in the community chat and forum to get help and share your 
> improvements with other readers – see 
> https://selfhostbook.com/contact/ [selfhostbook.com] to connect.
>
>
> For further information and directions please consult the BLU Web site:
> http://www.blu.org
>
> Our meeting recordings are on the Video tab: http://blu.org/video/
>

-- 
Jerry Feldman 
Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org
PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
PGP Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1  3050 5715 B88D 6F6B B6E7

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Re: Boston Linux VIRTUAL Meeting , Wednesday, September 18, 2024 - Steadfast Self-Hosting date correction

[Jerry Feldman]

On 9/12/24 9:19 PM, Jerry Feldman wrote:
> When: September 18, 2024 7:00PM EDT (6:30PM for Q&A)
>
> Topic: Steadfast Self-Hosting
>
> Speakers: Adam Monsen , CTO , Sunrise Data
>
> Location: Online: https://meet.jit.si/blu.org
>
> We will not be live streaming as the YouTube the live streams have been
> failing partway through our meetings. We will be recording the meeting
> using Jitsi's recording feature.
>
> Summary:
>
> Hosting Your Software Services At Home
>
>
> Abstract:
>
> Join in a hands-on workshop all about self-hosting led by Adam. 
> Together we'll help each other get unblocked wherever we're at, from 
> curious consideration about standing up a server to adding and 
> improving smooth-running services. This workshop will focus on 
> fundamental concepts, tools, and techniques from the FOSS book 
> Steadfast Self-Hosting, although having and having read the book is 
> not required.
>
> Please visit https://selfhostbook.com/buy/ [selfhostbook.com] to get 
> your own physical or digital copy of the book. Buying a book is the 
> best way to show your support. If you're unable to afford a copy, 
> scholarships are available. As you read the book, you're encouraged to 
> join in the community chat and forum to get help and share your 
> improvements with other readers – see 
> https://selfhostbook.com/contact/ [selfhostbook.com] to connect.
>
> Bio:
> Adam is a kind and savvy FOSS enthusiast. He's been in tech for over 
> 20 years: building, producing, coding, debugging, architecting, 
> leading, managing, debugging some more, lecturing, writing, 
> administering and securing systems and processes, ensuring privacy and 
> compliance; in markets of all maturities, sizes, and scales; startups 
> to big enterprise. He's most proud of his family, growing Mifos, 
> founding SeaGL, selling C-SATS, and writing a FOSS book about 
> self-hosting FOSS.
>
> Adam is privileged and lucky to have given talks and workshops at a 
> handful of conferences (LFNW, SeaGL, LibrePlanet, OSCON, FOSSY) and 
> various other engagements.
>
> Attachments:
>
> https://adammonsen.com/
> https://fosstodon.org/@meonkeys/
> https://selfhostbook.com/
>
>
>
> For further information and directions please consult the BLU Web site:
> http://www.blu.org
>
> Our meeting recordings are on the Video tab: http://blu.org/video/
>

-- 
Jerry Feldman 
Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org
PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
PGP Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1  3050 5715 B88D 6F6B B6E7

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Re: FYI, FSF is downsizing offices, some old gear will be at MIT swap fest tomorrow

[jon.maddog.h...@gmail.com]

Unfortunately I received this email on Monday at 5:11 P.M.

Fortunately I was also a vendor at the MIT swapfest, selling off some of my 
collection of computers, and happened to end up only one vendor's stall away 
from Anush and the FSF sale.

Since I was there mostly to SELL things rather than BUY things, I had to 
control myself, but I did end up with a nice adjustable monitor stand capable 
of holding three monitors at a time via VESA mounts.   I made a donation to the 
FSF.

I already had a "Happy Hacking" keyboard (complete with zippered case), so I 
was not tempted by that.

Unfortunately I did not sell a LOT of things, but I did have one table that was 
reserved for "Free as in free beer" items, and most of those did finally 
goincluding a copy of Mark Williams COHERENT system with printed manual and 
distribution media.   The person who found this and recognized it was VERY 
happy to get it and even though it was on the "Free as in free beer" table 
insisted in giving me 20 dollars for itwhich later bought some non-free 
beer at the Cambridge Brewing Company.

I also had a great conversation with some of the people staffing the FSF vendor 
space regarding RISC-V technology vs CISC and (finally) showed Anush the GNU 
tattoo on my left shoulder.   He was suitably impressed.

I will also point out that I recently learned the Cambridge Brewing Company in 
Kendal Square is closing.  Originally opened in 1989 it was located adjacent to 
DEC's Cambridge Research Group and is close to where OSF, the X Consortium and 
MIT.

I have had many beers there with various people in the DEC, Unix and Linux 
space, and will miss it.   Its last day open will be December 20th.

md

https://www.newsbreak.com/boston-25-news-wfxt-523003/3566022687478-cambridge-brewery-announces-closing-after-35-years-in-business?s=dmg_local_email_bucket_18.web2_fromweb

> On 08/17/2024 5:36 PM EDT Ian Kelling  wrote:
> 
>  
> August 18th, http://w1mx.mit.edu/flea-at-mit/
> 
> This is isn't something the FSF is promoting or doing officially, but I
> figured some people here might be interested to know. It is the first
> time FSF is downsizing offices at least in the last 20 years (maybe all
> 39 years), so it had accumulated a lot of stuff.
> 
> A friend of the FSF and a summer intern, Anush, took it upon himself to
> do this. I helped him pick out stuff, but I'm not able to make it
> there. Things will have very reasonable prices (especially whatever is
> left at the end).
> 
> A few highlights off the top of my head:
> Serial multiplexers.
> Some desktop computers with libreboot.
> Heavy iron server case, 3 or 4u, takes a desktop power supply, 8 hot
>   swap bays.
> Some nice ps2 keyboards: happy hacking, model m or similar
> Lots of other stuff, I'm sure some of it is equally interesting I just
> can't remember.
> 
> Related:
> https://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/fsf-office-closing-party
> 
> After I finish this moving work, start attending local user group
> meetings again.
> 
> -- 
> Ian Kelling | Senior Systems Administrator, Free Software Foundation
> GPG Key: B125 F60B 7B28 7FF6 A2B7  DF8F 170A F0E2 9542 95DF
> https://fsf.org | https://gnu.org
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Re: Anyone want to buy a supercomputer?

[Richard J. Kolb]

Personally I've only used punch cards as free flash cards. My dad provided
them as he retired legacy systems when I was in kindergarten.

FWIW I was in the basement of a large company 4 years ago and stumbled
across two punch card machines that I thought were in storage, a week later
I discovered them running a program. Today I'm working on updating a radar
system from Vax/VMS to modern hardware.

If anyone is interested in also working on updating a system written in Ada
on VMS and moving it to Linux using Ada and C++ drop me a line.

Richard J. Kolb


On Thu, May 2, 2024 at 10:49 AM Mark E. Mallett  wrote:

> On Wed, May 01, 2024 at 07:52:37PM -0400, jon.maddog.h...@gmail.com wrote:
>   ...
>
> > So BASIC has a lot of detractors, mostly due to the infamous "GOTO".
>
> FORTRAN's "computed goto" put that to shame ;)
>
>
> > So here is to you, BASIC!   You moved a lot of people forward.
>
> Indeed.
>
> -mm-  (no thanks on the supercomputer)
>
>
> PS: Some time in the mid-70s I wrote a FORTRAN preprocessor that
> allowed the use of symbolic labels. It could also renumber labels,
> move format statements to their own section with their own number
> grouping. A la ratfor I guess, tho I had never heard of that (it
> sort of barely existed then anyway).
>
> PPS: I only ever took one language course in my ignoble time at college,
> prior to the thing in the PS above.  It was FORTRAN. I took it three
> times because I failed it twice, me being a horrible student and
> distracted by.. well, computers.  The third time I got a D. The final
> term project was returned with a red scrawl over the front page saying
> "I asked for a project, not a thesis." That was sort of on my mind
> because I think I had that printout up until about a week ago when it
> was accidentally thrown out by somebody working on the house here.
>
> Ah, nostalgia. I remember that.
>
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Re: Anyone want to buy a supercomputer?

[Mark E. Mallett]

On Wed, May 01, 2024 at 07:52:37PM -0400, jon.maddog.h...@gmail.com wrote:
  ...

> So BASIC has a lot of detractors, mostly due to the infamous "GOTO".

FORTRAN's "computed goto" put that to shame ;)


> So here is to you, BASIC!   You moved a lot of people forward.

Indeed.

-mm-  (no thanks on the supercomputer)


PS: Some time in the mid-70s I wrote a FORTRAN preprocessor that
allowed the use of symbolic labels. It could also renumber labels,
move format statements to their own section with their own number
grouping. A la ratfor I guess, tho I had never heard of that (it
sort of barely existed then anyway).

PPS: I only ever took one language course in my ignoble time at college,
prior to the thing in the PS above.  It was FORTRAN. I took it three
times because I failed it twice, me being a horrible student and
distracted by.. well, computers.  The third time I got a D. The final
term project was returned with a red scrawl over the front page saying
"I asked for a project, not a thesis." That was sort of on my mind
because I think I had that printout up until about a week ago when it
was accidentally thrown out by somebody working on the house here.

Ah, nostalgia. I remember that.

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Re: Anyone want to buy a supercomputer?

[Šarūnas Burdulis]

FORTRAN was the first programming language I learned. Then used it to 
model laser modes for thesis. Punch cards. I don't remember what was the 
university's mainframe called.


Today I'm still helping users who write, compile and run FORTRAN 
programs on Linux servers.


--
Šarūnas Burdulis
Dartmouth Mathematics
math.dartmouth.edu/~sarunas

· https://useplaintext.email ·



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Re: Anyone want to buy a supercomputer?

[Jerry Feldman]

Thanks Jeff and Maddog. I learned Fortran II ( then Fortran IV) on an IBM
4044 in 1965 and GE timesharing basic. All input to the 4044 was punch
cards. Being in ROTC, I went right into the Army, then to Viet Nam. No
computers until 1970 😢

--
Jerry Feldman 
Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org

On Wed, May 1, 2024, 10:35 PM jon.maddog.h...@gmail.com <
jonhal...@comcast.net> wrote:

> My first language was FORTRAN, using punched cards on an IBM 1130 in 1969,
> but when I went to teach at Hartford State Technical College in 1977-1980
> we used BASIC-PLUS on a DEC PDP 11/70 running RSTS/E as a time-sharing
> operating system.
>
> Students in those days had no computers at home, and many typically had no
> computer classes in high school.   The first time they touched a computer
> keyboard was in my "Introduction to Computer Programming" class.
>
> When you first logged into your RSTS/E account you were immediately
> talking to the BASIC-PLUS interpreter, more or less like to talk to a shell
> interpreter today.
>
> READY
>
> was the output given to you.
>
> If you typed in the line without a line number, the line was executed
> immediately, so you could use it as a "calculator":
>
> Print 5*3
>
> would give you "15" as an answer.   If you typed in a line number at the
> beginning of the line it stored the command in line order:
>
> 10 Let A=3
> 20 Let B=5
> 30 Print A*B
> 40 END
>
> Run
>
> would give you the same answer, but the values of "A" and "B" would stay
> in memory as would the rest of the program.
>
> With BASIC-PLUS you did not need an editor (you could use one, but you did
> not NEED it).   You did not have to know what a compiler was or a Linker or
> know how to use a fancy debugger.
>
> Students could start writing programs (albeit sometimes crappy programs)
> from day 1.
>
> On the other hand I taught a group of electrical technology students a
> course in how to write FORTRAN.   I was allowed eight weeks (a summer
> course) instead of the traditional 13 weeks.   Even I thought this was
> crazy, but the administration told me it had been done many times before.
>
> The administration lied.
>
> Most of the students just got past the stage of being able to edit,
> compile and link a simple program before the course was over.
> So BASIC has a lot of detractors, mostly due to the infamous "GOTO".   But
> BASIC-PLUS also allowed you to write and call subroutines and functions.
>
> So here is to you, BASIC!   You moved a lot of people forward.
>
> md
>
> On 05/01/2024 4:04 PM EDT Jeffry Smith  wrote:
>
>
>
> https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2024/04/us-government-auctions-5-34-petaflop-cheyenne-supercomputer/
>
>
> Useful for running your Basic programs
> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/05/the-basic-programming-language-turns-60/
>
> Jeff
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Re: Anyone want to buy a supercomputer?

[Jeffry Smith]

My first languages were FORTRAN & Basic. Done via punch cards on a mainframe 
the school rented time on. Drop your cards (in order; with paper with your 
name, class, school; rubber band around package) in the outbox before the 
afternoon deadline. Pick up your cards & output (on green & white striped 
fanfold) in the morning from the inbox.

See it got six or so cards in before a lexical error, kicking your stack out. 
Fix error and repeat until whole stack compiled.

Then you got to see your logic errors.

Oh, and don't forget to number your cards, and put a diagonal stripe on the 
side. Makes it much easier to get them back in order when (not if) you dropped 
them.

Those were the days. I don't miss them. Well, not much. I think we did a lot 
more planning on our programs before we started writing them on sheets of paper 
with boxes matching the punch cards. Sometimes running through the program as 
if we were the computer, because of the slow turnaround and the deadlines. Now 
you can get instant feedback in an IDE.

But given the choice, I'll use today's tools. Sometimes an old dog can learn 
new tricks.

Jeff








From: jon.maddog.h...@gmail.com 
Sent: Wednesday, May 1, 2024 7:53:01 PM
To: Jeffry Smith ; gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org 

Subject: Re: Anyone want to buy a supercomputer?

My first language was FORTRAN, using punched cards on an IBM 1130 in 1969, but 
when I went to teach at Hartford State Technical College in 1977-1980 we used 
BASIC-PLUS on a DEC PDP 11/70 running RSTS/E as a time-sharing operating system.

Students in those days had no computers at home, and many typically had no 
computer classes in high school.   The first time they touched a computer 
keyboard was in my "Introduction to Computer Programming" class.

When you first logged into your RSTS/E account you were immediately talking to 
the BASIC-PLUS interpreter, more or less like to talk to a shell interpreter 
today.

READY

was the output given to you.

If you typed in the line without a line number, the line was executed 
immediately, so you could use it as a "calculator":

Print 5*3

would give you "15" as an answer.   If you typed in a line number at the 
beginning of the line it stored the command in line order:

10 Let A=3
20 Let B=5
30 Print A*B
40 END

Run

would give you the same answer, but the values of "A" and "B" would stay in 
memory as would the rest of the program.

With BASIC-PLUS you did not need an editor (you could use one, but you did not 
NEED it).   You did not have to know what a compiler was or a Linker or know 
how to use a fancy debugger.

Students could start writing programs (albeit sometimes crappy programs) from 
day 1.

On the other hand I taught a group of electrical technology students a course 
in how to write FORTRAN.   I was allowed eight weeks (a summer course) instead 
of the traditional 13 weeks.   Even I thought this was crazy, but the 
administration told me it had been done many times before.

The administration lied.

Most of the students just got past the stage of being able to edit, compile and 
link a simple program before the course was over.
So BASIC has a lot of detractors, mostly due to the infamous "GOTO".   But 
BASIC-PLUS also allowed you to write and call subroutines and functions.

So here is to you, BASIC!   You moved a lot of people forward.

md
On 05/01/2024 4:04 PM EDT Jeffry Smith  wrote:


https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2024/04/us-government-auctions-5-34-petaflop-cheyenne-supercomputer/


Useful for running your Basic programs 
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/05/the-basic-programming-language-turns-60/

Jeff
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Re: Anyone want to buy a supercomputer?

[jon.maddog.h...@gmail.com]

My first language was FORTRAN, using punched cards on an IBM 1130 in 1969, but 
when I went to teach at Hartford State Technical College in 1977-1980 we used 
BASIC-PLUS on a DEC PDP 11/70 running RSTS/E as a time-sharing operating system.

Students in those days had no computers at home, and many typically had no 
computer classes in high school.   The first time they touched a computer 
keyboard was in my "Introduction to Computer Programming" class.

When you first logged into your RSTS/E account you were immediately talking to 
the BASIC-PLUS interpreter, more or less like to talk to a shell interpreter 
today.

READY

was the output given to you.

If you typed in the line without a line number, the line was executed 
immediately, so you could use it as a "calculator":

Print 5*3

would give you "15" as an answer.   If you typed in a line number at the 
beginning of the line it stored the command in line order:

10 Let A=3
20 Let B=5
30 Print A*B
40 END

Run

would give you the same answer, but the values of "A" and "B" would stay in 
memory as would the rest of the program.

With BASIC-PLUS you did not need an editor (you could use one, but you did not 
NEED it).   You did not have to know what a compiler was or a Linker or know 
how to use a fancy debugger.

Students could start writing programs (albeit sometimes crappy programs) from 
day 1.

On the other hand I taught a group of electrical technology students a course 
in how to write FORTRAN.   I was allowed eight weeks (a summer course) instead 
of the traditional 13 weeks.   Even I thought this was crazy, but the 
administration told me it had been done many times before.

The administration lied.

Most of the students just got past the stage of being able to edit, compile and 
link a simple program before the course was over.
So BASIC has a lot of detractors, mostly due to the infamous "GOTO".   But 
BASIC-PLUS also allowed you to write and call subroutines and functions.

So here is to you, BASIC!   You moved a lot of people forward.

md

> On 05/01/2024 4:04 PM EDT Jeffry Smith  wrote:
>  
>  
> https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2024/04/us-government-auctions-5-34-petaflop-cheyenne-supercomputer/
>  
>  
> Useful for running your Basic programs 
> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/05/the-basic-programming-language-turns-60/
>  
> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/05/the-basic-programming-language-turns-60/
>  
> Jeff
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Re: Upper Valley Meetup

[jon.maddog.h...@gmail.com]

I will second the RIP of DLSLUG.

The "Greater New Hampshire Linux User's Group" (GNHLUG) and its offshoots over 
the years in Nashua, Durham, Hanover, Manchester, and (at one time, Keene) was 
a good run.

Having started with the first one in 1995 in Durham, GNHLUG (pronounced like 
drinking a swallow of good craft beer) held one meeting before the founder gave 
it up and I took it over.

I ran it for ten years, and most of that was on the second floor of Martha's 
exchange restaurant, with some quarterly meetings at Daniel Webster College 
when we had a really good speaker.

We had some pretty good meetings.   I dragged Linus up to UNH in Durham when he 
attended a USENIX meeting in Boston, and we had some other "notables" give 
talks.

I had to give it up because I was traveling too much for DEC and Linux and I 
did not want to invite a speaker (often a personal friend of mine) and not have 
things "go right".

Others took over running the meetings, but decided that it was too much work, 
and eventually the monthly meetings stopped.

Some people revived the meetings in Manchester and they had some good ones with 
decent (in my mind) attendance, but eventually those stopped too.

Andy Stewart ran the WPI LUG for a while, then created a Meetup group which (I 
think) was eventually killed by COVID.   And there still is a LUG at WPI.

And of course there is BLU in Boston.

I have been trying to start the GNHLUG meetings up again, but have been having 
problems finding a location to hold them that is both stable (able to be booked 
months in advance) and gratis.  A community college would have been "gratis" 
but insisted that I have liability insurance that would cost 100-200 dollars a 
month.   I would prefer a local (to me) high school or college, hoping to 
attract students into a "Linux Club" as the hub of the group.

My idea is to have a hybrid event, for people who want to "meet and greet" can 
attend, but people that are busy or too far away can attend virtually.  This 
puts some restrictions on the various needs for the venue.

Ben Kallus has been kind enough to invite me for a "luncheon" in Hanover (1.5 
hours away), but I would want to take my husband and he is busy during the day, 
so I would like it to be on a weekend.   Ben is pursuing that, but has 
indicated that weekdays are preferable.

This email would not be complete without a more than appreciative shout-out to 
Ben Scott, who has been the GNHLUG webmaster and maintainer of the mailing 
lists all these years.   I am not sure exactly when Ben took over, but it has 
been at least two decades.

I have not given up on the gnhlug.org mailing list and meetings, but I thought 
I would let y'all know what has been happening.

And Ben, you can add me to the mailing list for the meetup meetings.

maddog

> On 03/06/2024 11:08 AM EST G Rundlett  wrote:
>  
>  
> RIP DSLUG
> 
> Greg Rundlett
> 
> 
> On Wed, Mar 6, 2024 at 10:09 AM Ben Kallus 
>  mailto:benjamin.p.kallus...@dartmouth.edu> wrote:
> 
> > LUGgers,
> > 
> > The DLSLUG kicked the bucket earlier this year :(
> > 
> > However, a few months ago, Doug Madory started a monthly meetup that
> > covers a lot of the same ground.
> > (https://www.meetup.com/computer-science-in-the-upper-valley/)
> > 
> > It's hosted in-person in the new Dartmouth CS building with
> > refreshments provided by the department. Like most buildings on
> > campus, the building is open to the public until about 10:00 PM.
> > 
> > There is a mailing list if you don't likehttp://meetup.com ; please email me
> > to be added to it.
> > 
> > -Ben
> > ___
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Re: Upper Valley Meetup

[G Rundlett]

RIP DSLUG

Greg Rundlett



On Wed, Mar 6, 2024 at 10:09 AM Ben Kallus <
benjamin.p.kallus...@dartmouth.edu> wrote:

> LUGgers,
>
> The DLSLUG kicked the bucket earlier this year :(
>
> However, a few months ago, Doug Madory started a monthly meetup that
> covers a lot of the same ground.
> (https://www.meetup.com/computer-science-in-the-upper-valley/)
>
> It's hosted in-person in the new Dartmouth CS building with
> refreshments provided by the department. Like most buildings on
> campus, the building is open to the public until about 10:00 PM.
>
> There is a mailing list if you don't like meetup.com; please email me
> to be added to it.
>
> -Ben
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Re: eol — IQrouter

[Lloyd Kvam]

I thought they were extremely considerate of their customers.

On Thu, 2023-11-02 at 14:32 +, Ben Kallus wrote:
> At least they provide an OpenWRT upgrade path! That's a lot better
> than consumer router companies (e.g. Linksys), who use firmware
> signature checks to ensure that only their outdated Linux will run on
> the things after EOL.
> 
> On 11/2/23, Lloyd Kvam  wrote:
> > https://evenroute.com/eol
> > 
> > The business supporting IQ routers has failed.
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > Lloyd Kvam
> > 23 Randolph Place
> > Unit 306
> > Northampton, MA 01060
> > 802-448-0836
> > 
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> > http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
> > 


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Re: eol — IQrouter

[Ben Kallus]

At least they provide an OpenWRT upgrade path! That's a lot better
than consumer router companies (e.g. Linksys), who use firmware
signature checks to ensure that only their outdated Linux will run on
the things after EOL.

On 11/2/23, Lloyd Kvam  wrote:
> https://evenroute.com/eol
>
> The business supporting IQ routers has failed.
>
>
> --
> Lloyd Kvam
> 23 Randolph Place
> Unit 306
> Northampton, MA 01060
> 802-448-0836
>
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Re: An interesting article on DEC

[Richard J. Kolb]

Interesting read, thanks for sharing and for the follow on comments.

I'm in the midst of working on porting code from Vax to modern hardware as
we speak.

Richard J. Kolb


On Sun, Oct 8, 2023 at 12:49 PM Jerry Feldman  wrote:

> Yes, the pdp-8 also supported multi user and multi tasking. The burger
> king manex system used os-8 as it's os.
>
> --
> Jerry Feldman 
> Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org
>
> On Sun, Oct 8, 2023, 10:40 AM jon.maddog.h...@gmail.com <
> jonhal...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> I also disagree with many items in the article.
>>
>> Ignoring architectures like the PDP-11 and implying that multi-user
>> started with VMS is just plain wrong.   The PDP-11 was a premier platform
>> for multi-user operating systems like RSTS, RSX-11, and Unix to name just a
>> few.
>>
>> Secondly the movement of the Linux kernel from being a
>> single-architecture 32-bit architecture to being a N-architecture, 32/64
>> bit kernel had immense impact on the computer industry and that was
>> facilitated by the Linux/Alpha project.
>>
>> Finally, I disagree that WNT was based either on OS/2 or VMS.   It was
>> based on a micro-kernel system that was developed by Dave Cutler and his
>> crew, and transported to Microsoft when Dave left and went there.   This
>> was one reason why the three architectures that were supported by WNT at
>> the announcement were Intel, MIPS and Alpha.   MIPS was dropped before
>> shipping since DEC did not care about it anymore.   Alpha was dropped as
>> soon as Microsoft could scrub all the code that came from DEC.
>>
>> I am familiar with this history since I was one of the people that Dave
>> Cutler interviewed for being a product manager for the system when Dave was
>> still working for DEC.   It was only months later that he left for
>> Microsoft.
>>
>> md
>>
>>
>> On 10/07/2023 4:35 PM EDT mik...@colossus.bilow.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> It's a great article. I was the principal consultant for IDS in that era,
>> and there is a staff alumni group active on Facebook where I posted this
>> link.
>>
>> I disagree with a number of the claims in the article, especially that
>> Windows NT was based on VMS when in fact it was based on and developed
>> using OS/2. There is a good and detailed book about this:
>>
>>
>> https://www.gpascalzachary.com/showstopper__the_breakneck_race_to_create_windows_nt_and_the_next_generation_at_m_50101.htm
>>
>>
>> On 10/7/23 16:07, Don wrote:
>>
>>
>> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/10/long-gone-dec-is-still-powering-the-world-of-computing/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
>>
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Re: An interesting article on DEC

[Jerry Feldman]

Yes, the pdp-8 also supported multi user and multi tasking. The burger king
manex system used os-8 as it's os.

--
Jerry Feldman 
Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org

On Sun, Oct 8, 2023, 10:40 AM jon.maddog.h...@gmail.com <
jonhal...@comcast.net> wrote:

> I also disagree with many items in the article.
>
> Ignoring architectures like the PDP-11 and implying that multi-user
> started with VMS is just plain wrong.   The PDP-11 was a premier platform
> for multi-user operating systems like RSTS, RSX-11, and Unix to name just a
> few.
>
> Secondly the movement of the Linux kernel from being a single-architecture
> 32-bit architecture to being a N-architecture, 32/64 bit kernel had immense
> impact on the computer industry and that was facilitated by the Linux/Alpha
> project.
>
> Finally, I disagree that WNT was based either on OS/2 or VMS.   It was
> based on a micro-kernel system that was developed by Dave Cutler and his
> crew, and transported to Microsoft when Dave left and went there.   This
> was one reason why the three architectures that were supported by WNT at
> the announcement were Intel, MIPS and Alpha.   MIPS was dropped before
> shipping since DEC did not care about it anymore.   Alpha was dropped as
> soon as Microsoft could scrub all the code that came from DEC.
>
> I am familiar with this history since I was one of the people that Dave
> Cutler interviewed for being a product manager for the system when Dave was
> still working for DEC.   It was only months later that he left for
> Microsoft.
>
> md
>
>
> On 10/07/2023 4:35 PM EDT mik...@colossus.bilow.com wrote:
>
>
>
> It's a great article. I was the principal consultant for IDS in that era,
> and there is a staff alumni group active on Facebook where I posted this
> link.
>
> I disagree with a number of the claims in the article, especially that
> Windows NT was based on VMS when in fact it was based on and developed
> using OS/2. There is a good and detailed book about this:
>
>
> https://www.gpascalzachary.com/showstopper__the_breakneck_race_to_create_windows_nt_and_the_next_generation_at_m_50101.htm
>
>
> On 10/7/23 16:07, Don wrote:
>
>
> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/10/long-gone-dec-is-still-powering-the-world-of-computing/
>
>
>
>
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> http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
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Re: An interesting article on DEC

[jon.maddog.h...@gmail.com]

I also disagree with many items in the article.

Ignoring architectures like the PDP-11 and implying that multi-user started 
with VMS is just plain wrong.   The PDP-11 was a premier platform for 
multi-user operating systems like RSTS, RSX-11, and Unix to name just a few.

Secondly the movement of the Linux kernel from being a single-architecture 
32-bit architecture to being a N-architecture, 32/64 bit kernel had immense 
impact on the computer industry and that was facilitated by the Linux/Alpha 
project.

Finally, I disagree that WNT was based either on OS/2 or VMS.   It was based on 
a micro-kernel system that was developed by Dave Cutler and his crew, and 
transported to Microsoft when Dave left and went there.   This was one reason 
why the three architectures that were supported by WNT at the announcement were 
Intel, MIPS and Alpha.   MIPS was dropped before shipping since DEC did not 
care about it anymore.   Alpha was dropped as soon as Microsoft could scrub all 
the code that came from DEC.

I am familiar with this history since I was one of the people that Dave Cutler 
interviewed for being a product manager for the system when Dave was still 
working for DEC.   It was only months later that he left for Microsoft.

md



> On 10/07/2023 4:35 PM EDT mik...@colossus.bilow.com wrote:
>  
>  
> 
> It's a great article. I was the principal consultant for IDS in that era, and 
> there is a staff alumni group active on Facebook where I posted this link.
> 
> I disagree with a number of the claims in the article, especially that 
> Windows NT was based on VMS when in fact it was based on and developed using 
> OS/2. There is a good and detailed book about this:
> 
> https://www.gpascalzachary.com/showstopper__the_breakneck_race_to_create_windows_nt_and_the_next_generation_at_m_50101.htm
> 
>  
> 
> On 10/7/23 16:07, Don wrote:
> 
> > https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/10/long-gone-dec-is-still-powering-the-world-of-computing/
> > 
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
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Re: An interesting article on DEC

[ROGER LEVASSEUR]

I so miss DEC.  Bulk of CS degree was earned utilizing a DECSYSTEM-20, a VAX, 
and PDP-11 computers.  Later I worked for DEC/Compaq/HP in the late 90s/early 
2000s.
 
 -roger
 

> On 10/07/2023 4:07 PM EDT Don  wrote:
>  
>  
> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/10/long-gone-dec-is-still-powering-the-world-of-computing/
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Re: An interesting article on DEC

[mikebw]

It's a great article. I was the principal consultant for IDS in that 
era, and there is a staff alumni group active on Facebook where I posted 
this link.


I disagree with a number of the claims in the article, especially that 
Windows NT was based on VMS when in fact it was based on and developed 
using OS/2. There is a good and detailed book about this:


https://www.gpascalzachary.com/showstopper__the_breakneck_race_to_create_windows_nt_and_the_next_generation_at_m_50101.htm


On 10/7/23 16:07, Don wrote:

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/10/long-gone-dec-is-still-powering-the-world-of-computing/



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Re: Kill signal question

[Jim McGinness]

And for those systemd users, you'd want to do (with 'doas' or 'sudo'
according to how up-to-the-latest your system is)

   systemctl reload sshd

On Wed, Mar 29, 2023 at 5:03 PM David Berube 
wrote:

> Should be - as well as this:
>
> kill -1 your_pid_here
>
> Take it easy,
>
> David Berube
>
> On Wed, Mar 29, 2023 at 4:37 PM Mark McSweeney 
> wrote:
>
>> All,
>>
>> Was recently looking at the "kill" signal man and info pages after I got
>> a question about it.
>>
>> I learned a long time ago that after makes changes to the
>> /etc/ssh/sshd_config, to reload sshd daemon, I needed to get the
>> /var/run/sshd.pid value and input that value in to the "kill -HUP
>> 'SSHD_PID'" and it would reload the daemon with killing my existing ssh
>> session. Works great for when I am logged into remote systems.
>>
>> Specifically, my question is, is this method the equivalent to "kill -s
>> SIGHUP 'SSHD_PID'" ??
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>>
>
>
> --
> David Berube
> Berube Consulting
> http://berubeconsulting.com
> P.O Box 1746
> Concord, NH 03302
> United States
> Tel: (603) 574-4766
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Re: Kill signal question

[David Berube]

Should be - as well as this:

kill -1 your_pid_here

Take it easy,

David Berube

On Wed, Mar 29, 2023 at 4:37 PM Mark McSweeney 
wrote:

> All,
>
> Was recently looking at the "kill" signal man and info pages after I got a
> question about it.
>
> I learned a long time ago that after makes changes to the
> /etc/ssh/sshd_config, to reload sshd daemon, I needed to get the
> /var/run/sshd.pid value and input that value in to the "kill -HUP
> 'SSHD_PID'" and it would reload the daemon with killing my existing ssh
> session. Works great for when I am logged into remote systems.
>
> Specifically, my question is, is this method the equivalent to "kill -s
> SIGHUP 'SSHD_PID'" ??
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-- 
David Berube
Berube Consulting
http://berubeconsulting.com
P.O Box 1746
Concord, NH 03302
United States
Tel: (603) 574-4766
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Re: Frames and Motorola's New Router.

[Ben Scott]

At 2023 Mar 14 Tue 08:07 PM +, Lori Nagel  wrote:
> It is a new motorola router.

   What model?

-- Ben
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Re: Frames and Motorola's New Router.

[Thomas Charron]

  I found this, maybe it will help.
https://kevinlocke.name/bits/2019/12/28/checking-802.11w-support/


On Tue, Mar 14, 2023, 4:08 PM Lori Nagel  wrote:

>
> I think that is it.  It is a new motorola router.
> On Monday, March 13, 2023 at 07:46:17 PM EDT, Thomas Charron <
> twaf...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> He might mean protected management frames?
>
> On Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 7:36 PM Ben Scott  wrote:
>
> At 2023 Mar 12 Sun 09:36 PM -0400, Bruce Labitt <
> bruce.lab...@myfairpoint.net> wrote:
> >>> Why don't linux machines let me use the Wi-Fi when the router is set
> to frames.
> >>> It is supposed to be enhanced security, but it only works under
> windows.
> >>
> >> I'm not sure what you mean here.
> >
> > Perhaps the router was set to use jumbo frames?
>
> Jumbo frames aren't a security feature.  They also work under Linux.  They
> also don't make any sense on a home router, where the MTU for the WAN side
> will almost always be the same or less than regular Ethernet frames, let
> alone jumbo.
>
> -- Ben
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Re: Frames and Motorola's New Router.

[Thomas Charron]

  That wouldn't be a "Linux won't work" as much as it may be a driver
incompatibility or, something that requires some setup.  What brand is your
wifi card?


On Tue, Mar 14, 2023, 4:08 PM Lori Nagel  wrote:

>
> I think that is it.  It is a new motorola router.
> On Monday, March 13, 2023 at 07:46:17 PM EDT, Thomas Charron <
> twaf...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> He might mean protected management frames?
>
> On Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 7:36 PM Ben Scott  wrote:
>
> At 2023 Mar 12 Sun 09:36 PM -0400, Bruce Labitt <
> bruce.lab...@myfairpoint.net> wrote:
> >>> Why don't linux machines let me use the Wi-Fi when the router is set
> to frames.
> >>> It is supposed to be enhanced security, but it only works under
> windows.
> >>
> >> I'm not sure what you mean here.
> >
> > Perhaps the router was set to use jumbo frames?
>
> Jumbo frames aren't a security feature.  They also work under Linux.  They
> also don't make any sense on a home router, where the MTU for the WAN side
> will almost always be the same or less than regular Ethernet frames, let
> alone jumbo.
>
> -- Ben
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Re: Frames and Motorola's New Router.

[Lori Nagel]

 
I think that is it.  It is a new motorola router. 
On Monday, March 13, 2023 at 07:46:17 PM EDT, Thomas Charron 
 wrote:  
 
 He might mean protected management frames?
On Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 7:36 PM Ben Scott  wrote:

At 2023 Mar 12 Sun 09:36 PM -0400, Bruce Labitt  
wrote:
>>> Why don't linux machines let me use the Wi-Fi when the router is set to 
>>> frames.
>>> It is supposed to be enhanced security, but it only works under windows.
>>
>> I'm not sure what you mean here.
>
> Perhaps the router was set to use jumbo frames?

Jumbo frames aren't a security feature.  They also work under Linux.  They also 
don't make any sense on a home router, where the MTU for the WAN side will 
almost always be the same or less than regular Ethernet frames, let alone jumbo.

-- Ben
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Boston Linux VIRTUAL Meeting , re, minder, tomorrow, Wednesday, March 15, 2023 - Tinkering With Cryptography

[Jerry Feldman]

When: March 15, 2023 7:00PM EDT (6:30PM for Q&A)

Topic: Tinkering With Cryptography

Speaker:  Brian DeLacey

Location: Online: https://meet.jit.si/blu.org

Live stream: https://youtube.com/live/1H7Rbpq1LR8?feature=share

Summary:

Making cryptography more accessible and useful with Google's Tink
Cryptographic Library

Abstract:


Brian covers the basics of a relatively new library from Google, with 
demonstration code running on multiple platforms. We'll also delve into 
some of the more advanced topics related to this code and take a 
special, deep dive into Key Management Systems.

As part of the discussion, Brian explores the challenges of brittle 
bytes and how to achieve secure, authenticated access to critical data 
over time. Demos cover code running on tiny little machines and 
bigger&emdash;but still bargain&emdash;builds.

Demonstration code will be in Golang and Python, but the Tink 
Cryptographic Library also works well with C++, Java, mobile platforms 
and more.

We'll also walk through and demonstrate code and the use of cryptography 
in “nostr”, which stands for “Notes and Other Stuff Transmitted by Relays”.

According to its chief architect, nostr is “The simplest open protocol 
that is able to create a censorship-resistant global ”social“ network 
once and for all. It doesn't rely on any trusted central server, hence 
it is resilient; it is based on cryptographic keys and signatures, so it 
is tamperproof; it does not rely on P2P techniques, therefore it works.”

Attachments

Google's Tink Cryptographic Library: https://developers.google.com/tink
awesome-A curated (GitHub): https://github.com/aljazceru/awesome-nostr
nostr: a truly censorship-resistant alternative to Twitter (GitHub): 
https://github.com/nostr-protocol/nostr
Apple News 2022-12-07: Apple advances user security with powerful new 
data protections: 
https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2022/12/apple-advances-user-security-with-powerful-new-data-protections/


For further information and directions please consult the BLU Web site: 
http://www.blu.org



--
Jerry Feldman mailto:gaf.li...@gmail.com>>
Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org
PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
PGP Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1  3050 5715 B88D 6F6
B B6E7






























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Re: Frames and Motorola's New Router.

[Thomas Charron]

He might mean protected management frames?

On Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 7:36 PM Ben Scott  wrote:

> At 2023 Mar 12 Sun 09:36 PM -0400, Bruce Labitt <
> bruce.lab...@myfairpoint.net> wrote:
> >>> Why don't linux machines let me use the Wi-Fi when the router is set
> to frames.
> >>> It is supposed to be enhanced security, but it only works under
> windows.
> >>
> >> I'm not sure what you mean here.
> >
> > Perhaps the router was set to use jumbo frames?
>
> Jumbo frames aren't a security feature.  They also work under Linux.  They
> also don't make any sense on a home router, where the MTU for the WAN side
> will almost always be the same or less than regular Ethernet frames, let
> alone jumbo.
>
> -- Ben
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Re: Frames and Motorola's New Router.

[Ben Scott]

At 2023 Mar 12 Sun 09:36 PM -0400, Bruce Labitt  
wrote:
>>> Why don't linux machines let me use the Wi-Fi when the router is set to 
>>> frames.
>>> It is supposed to be enhanced security, but it only works under windows.
>>
>> I'm not sure what you mean here.
>
> Perhaps the router was set to use jumbo frames?

Jumbo frames aren't a security feature.  They also work under Linux.  They also 
don't make any sense on a home router, where the MTU for the WAN side will 
almost always be the same or less than regular Ethernet frames, let alone jumbo.

-- Ben
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Re: Frames and Motorola's New Router.

[Bruce Labitt]

On 3/12/23 9:29 PM, Benjamin Scott wrote:
> At 2023 Mar 12 Sun 10:42 PM +, Lori Nagel  wrote:
>> Why don't linux machines let me use the Wi-Fi when the router is set to 
>> frames.
> I'm not sure what you mean here.  A "frame" is the unit of network data 
> transmission at the data link level (Ethernet or Wifi).  Literally all 
> routers use frames.  Everything you send or receive gets encapsulated into 
> frames, whether you're using Linux or Windows.
>
> What model router do you have?
>
> -- Ben
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>
Perhaps the router was set to use jumbo frames?

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Re: Frames and Motorola's New Router.

[Benjamin Scott]

At 2023 Mar 12 Sun 10:42 PM +, Lori Nagel  wrote:
>Why don't linux machines let me use the Wi-Fi when the router is set to frames.

I'm not sure what you mean here.  A "frame" is the unit of network data 
transmission at the data link level (Ethernet or Wifi).  Literally all routers 
use frames.  Everything you send or receive gets encapsulated into frames, 
whether you're using Linux or Windows.

What model router do you have?

-- Ben
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Re: Email & Spam

[Bruce Dawson]

See injection below.

--Bruce

On 3/12/23 13:39, Joshua Judson Rosen wrote:
>   > On 3/10/23 12:43, Bruce Labitt wrote:
>   >> In email headers, are there any fields which are not spoof-able?  Or is 
> email simply a morass that is totally unsolvable and broken?  Simply 
> impossible to filter spam?  Now I am getting spam that is passing all the 
> dmarc, spf, and dkim checks.  Volume is relatively low at the
>   >> moment, 6 in 12 hours, but I am sure the bad guys are working on 
> increasing the volume.
>   >>
>   >> In particular, is
>   >>
>   >> X-Origin-Country reliable?  Or is this data field unsuitable for 
> filtering as well?
>   >>
>   >> Are there any mail client pre-filtering packages that can be added?  Or 
> is this a game best left to?
>
> On 3/10/23 17:02, Bruce Dawson wrote:
>> Essentially, no - all email headers are spoofable except the ones put on by 
>> your server. > Your server should insert a Received-by header that indicates 
>> who sent that message to you.
> Though in the case of the headers providing DKIM signatures, those are 
> "unspoofable" to the extent that they're used,
> since that's a cryptographic signature that you can verify.
>
> There are caveats there, basically that the DKIM signatures are only for 
> select _parts_ of the message...,
> but _generally_ if you have a valid DKIM signature then you at least know 
> where the message
> actually came from.
>
> And if you've got "spam that is passing all the dmarc, spf, and dkim checks", 
> then
> you know even more assuredly who's sending you spam.
>
> So, at least in theory, that gets you past the `detecting spoofs' point,
> so now you just have to worry about the spam coming in from new
> domains that you haven't blocked yet

Except when an intervening server deletes all the DKIM (and other) 
envelope information. Of course, that's a bad actor/server, but isn't 
that what most SPAM servers are?

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Re: Email & Spam

[Joshua Judson Rosen]

 > On 3/10/23 12:43, Bruce Labitt wrote:
 >> In email headers, are there any fields which are not spoof-able?  Or is 
 >> email simply a morass that is totally unsolvable and broken?  Simply 
 >> impossible to filter spam?  Now I am getting spam that is passing all the 
 >> dmarc, spf, and dkim checks.  Volume is relatively low at the
 >> moment, 6 in 12 hours, but I am sure the bad guys are working on increasing 
 >> the volume.
 >>
 >> In particular, is
 >>
 >> X-Origin-Country reliable?  Or is this data field unsuitable for filtering 
 >> as well?
 >>
 >> Are there any mail client pre-filtering packages that can be added?  Or is 
 >> this a game best left to?

On 3/10/23 17:02, Bruce Dawson wrote:
> Essentially, no - all email headers are spoofable except the ones put on by 
> your server. > Your server should insert a Received-by header that indicates 
> who sent that message to you.
Though in the case of the headers providing DKIM signatures, those are 
"unspoofable" to the extent that they're used,
since that's a cryptographic signature that you can verify.

There are caveats there, basically that the DKIM signatures are only for select 
_parts_ of the message...,
but _generally_ if you have a valid DKIM signature then you at least know where 
the message
actually came from.

And if you've got "spam that is passing all the dmarc, spf, and dkim checks", 
then
you know even more assuredly who's sending you spam.

So, at least in theory, that gets you past the `detecting spoofs' point,
so now you just have to worry about the spam coming in from new
domains that you haven't blocked yet

-- 
Connect with me on the GNU social network: 

Not on the network? Ask me for an invitation to a social hub!
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Re: Email & Spam

[Bruce Labitt]

Thought that might be the case.

Is dnschecker.org at least slightly accurate?  My last spam sender 
address seemed to originate from or around the Kremlin Palace Complex.


Output is in my email of 4:34pm.

Honestly thinking about at least asking one of our Senators if this is 
something I should be concerned about.  I had a high level clearance, at 
one time.


Or maybe it's ordinary spam, that just so happens to be spewing from 
55.7522,37.6155 from IP address 194.87.244.234, from JSC MediaSoft 
Ekspert. https://dnschecker.org/ip-location.php?ip=194.87.244.234  Does 
spook me a bit, to be honest.




On 3/10/23 5:02 PM, Bruce Dawson wrote:


Essentially, no - all email headers are spoofable except the ones put 
on by your server. Your server should insert a Received-by header that 
indicates who sent that message to you.


You can "generally" trust headers put on by the likes of Google 
(because your server can get the IP address of the server that 
connected to you) and Google IP addresses are moderately static.  
However, this is not always the case.


--Bruce

On 3/10/23 12:43, Bruce Labitt wrote:
In email headers, are there any fields which are not spoof-able?  Or 
is email simply a morass that is totally unsolvable and broken?  
Simply impossible to filter spam?  Now I am getting spam that is 
passing all the dmarc, spf, and dkim checks.  Volume is relatively 
low at the moment, 6 in 12 hours, but I am sure the bad guys are 
working on increasing the volume.


In particular, is

X-Origin-Country reliable?  Or is this data field unsuitable for 
filtering as well?


Are there any mail client pre-filtering packages that can be added?  
Or is this a game best left to?





On 3/9/23 2:44 PM, Bruce Labitt wrote:
Spoke too soon.  I am far from understanding this all, but why would 
my ISP send me mail that failed the following tests?
dmarc, spf or dkim?  The latest spam I received failed _all_ three 
tests.


It appears not everyone is consistent with using this stuff, I found 
an email from South West Airlines that apparently doesn't use dmarc, 
but at least it passed spf and dkim.  What a mess.


I tried to send this email and it was blocked when I included the 
dmarc text.


On 3/9/23 11:49 AM, Bruce Labitt wrote:

Crossing fingers, my spam storm has paused.  No spam since 3:27 EST
yesterday.

Cleaned out tons of old spam off my phone, which was tedious.  Found
some miss-classified spam that were legitimate emails, like from
attorneys and banks, that I never received.  Loads of stock tips, scams,
assorted pharmaceuticals, and of course, invitations to honeypots of the
female persuasion.  Some were quite amusing.

Need to get back to the email spam storm on my wife's account now.
Not sure if one her groups she belongs to was compromised and her email
account sold to spammers or not. Seems like it.

My kids, both on different ISP's had no increase in spam in the past
week.  I asked them last night, trying to figure out if this was a local
thing, or more wide spread.  Guess it was local, or their ISP's were
more on the ball.



On 3/8/23 5:59 PM, Bruce Labitt wrote:

I think that something has been going on for a bit now.

However, I did go through some ancient spam emails (don't ask me why
they were still around, I plumb forgot they were accumulating) and found
quite a few of them posing as family members and people I knew, but were
not legitimate.  Examining the headers showed they were trying to fool
me.  All of them wanted me to click on some link - hoping to do some
nefarious thing or another to me.  Many were from RU.

Oh, I have been using the filters!  I have filtered every domain ending
in xyz, .store and a few others.  It's not as easy to filter against
yourself...

Is it better to have these messages go to junk, or direct to trash?
Using Thunderbird if that matters.


On 3/8/23 5:22 PM, Ronald Smith wrote:

Hi all,

There is a coordinated attack happening right now on many forms of 
communication; email, social media, everything -- someone doesn't want people 
communicating right now. The increase in spam is just part of it.

Emails that I've sent to gmail have been bounced, maybe because gmail has 
tightened their filters, maybe it's a false flag. I'm not sure and I'm not 
going waste my time tracking it down right now. If someone wants to reach me, 
they can just call me on the phone.

To the guy who said you should block all the IP's in the header -- that's 
ABSOLUTELY WRONG! Whoever has launched this attack wants folks to do that -- 
they want folks to block stuff to further limit communication. Don't do that!

You can only trust the top "Received" notice in your email header. SMTP servers are 
supposed to tack on their info to the top of the message and send it along to the next server, but 
spammers or provocateurs will often falsify the tracking info below the most recent 
"Received" line, so you should just ignore that.

Just put up with the spam for now; don't over-react. Your email 

Re: Email & Spam

[Bruce Dawson]

Essentially, no - all email headers are spoofable except the ones put on 
by your server. Your server should insert a Received-by header that 
indicates who sent that message to you.


You can "generally" trust headers put on by the likes of Google (because 
your server can get the IP address of the server that connected to you) 
and Google IP addresses are moderately static. However, this is not 
always the case.


--Bruce

On 3/10/23 12:43, Bruce Labitt wrote:
In email headers, are there any fields which are not spoof-able?  Or 
is email simply a morass that is totally unsolvable and broken?  
Simply impossible to filter spam?  Now I am getting spam that is 
passing all the dmarc, spf, and dkim checks.  Volume is relatively low 
at the moment, 6 in 12 hours, but I am sure the bad guys are working 
on increasing the volume.


In particular, is

X-Origin-Country reliable?  Or is this data field unsuitable for 
filtering as well?


Are there any mail client pre-filtering packages that can be added?  
Or is this a game best left to?





On 3/9/23 2:44 PM, Bruce Labitt wrote:
Spoke too soon.  I am far from understanding this all, but why would 
my ISP send me mail that failed the following tests?
dmarc, spf or dkim?  The latest spam I received failed _all_ three 
tests.


It appears not everyone is consistent with using this stuff, I found 
an email from South West Airlines that apparently doesn't use dmarc, 
but at least it passed spf and dkim.  What a mess.


I tried to send this email and it was blocked when I included the 
dmarc text.


On 3/9/23 11:49 AM, Bruce Labitt wrote:

Crossing fingers, my spam storm has paused.  No spam since 3:27 EST
yesterday.

Cleaned out tons of old spam off my phone, which was tedious.  Found
some miss-classified spam that were legitimate emails, like from
attorneys and banks, that I never received.  Loads of stock tips, scams,
assorted pharmaceuticals, and of course, invitations to honeypots of the
female persuasion.  Some were quite amusing.

Need to get back to the email spam storm on my wife's account now.
Not sure if one her groups she belongs to was compromised and her email
account sold to spammers or not. Seems like it.

My kids, both on different ISP's had no increase in spam in the past
week.  I asked them last night, trying to figure out if this was a local
thing, or more wide spread.  Guess it was local, or their ISP's were
more on the ball.



On 3/8/23 5:59 PM, Bruce Labitt wrote:

I think that something has been going on for a bit now.

However, I did go through some ancient spam emails (don't ask me why
they were still around, I plumb forgot they were accumulating) and found
quite a few of them posing as family members and people I knew, but were
not legitimate.  Examining the headers showed they were trying to fool
me.  All of them wanted me to click on some link - hoping to do some
nefarious thing or another to me.  Many were from RU.

Oh, I have been using the filters!  I have filtered every domain ending
in xyz, .store and a few others.  It's not as easy to filter against
yourself...

Is it better to have these messages go to junk, or direct to trash?
Using Thunderbird if that matters.


On 3/8/23 5:22 PM, Ronald Smith wrote:

Hi all,

There is a coordinated attack happening right now on many forms of 
communication; email, social media, everything -- someone doesn't want people 
communicating right now. The increase in spam is just part of it.

Emails that I've sent to gmail have been bounced, maybe because gmail has 
tightened their filters, maybe it's a false flag. I'm not sure and I'm not 
going waste my time tracking it down right now. If someone wants to reach me, 
they can just call me on the phone.

To the guy who said you should block all the IP's in the header -- that's 
ABSOLUTELY WRONG! Whoever has launched this attack wants folks to do that -- 
they want folks to block stuff to further limit communication. Don't do that!

You can only trust the top "Received" notice in your email header. SMTP servers are 
supposed to tack on their info to the top of the message and send it along to the next server, but 
spammers or provocateurs will often falsify the tracking info below the most recent 
"Received" line, so you should just ignore that.

Just put up with the spam for now; don't over-react. Your email providers will 
know how to handle this if they have enough experience. Use the filters in your 
client if you need to.

Have fun...

Ronald Smith
r...@mrt4.com
603-360-1000

- - - -

On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 13:31:56 -0500
Bruce Labitt  wrote:


Seems to be an uptick in spam received lately.  Doesn't seem that my ISP
is on top of it.  In the past 48 hours have received at least three
dozen spams from similar parties.  Many seem to be coming from *.store
domains.  I haven't knowingly ever visited one of these domains.

I don't think I want to run my own email server - mostly because 1) I
really don't know how to set one up, and 2) it sounds like a bit o

Re: Email & Spam

[Bruce Labitt]

Found dnschecker.org  As suspected, most of these stupid spams are 
coming from Moscow. Today's stupid pillow spam ad analyzed:


Email Source Ip Info
Source IP Address     194.87.244.234
Source IP Hostname     194.87.244.234
Country     Russia
State     Moscow
City     Moscow (Vostochnyy administrativnyy okrug)
Zip Code     null
Latitude     55.8106
Longitude     37.8166
ISP     JSC "RetnNet"
Organization     JSC "RetnNet"
Threat Level     low

% This is the RIPE Database query service.
% The objects are in RPSL format.
%
% The RIPE Database is subject to Terms and Conditions.
% See http://www.ripe.net/db/support/db-terms-conditions.pdf

% Note: this output has been filtered.
%   To receive output for a database update, use the "-B" flag.

% Information related to '194.87.244.0 - 194.87.244.255'

% Abuse contact for '194.87.244.0 - 194.87.244.255' is 'ab...@mtw.ru'

inetnum:    194.87.244.0 - 194.87.244.255
netname:    RUCLOUD
descr:  Startup maintainer
country:    RU
org:    ORG-JME1-RIPE
admin-c:    AK14258-RIPE
tech-c: AK14258-RIPE
mnt-routes: MNT-RETN
mnt-domains:    MNT-RETN
status: ASSIGNED PA
mnt-by: interlir-mnt
created:    2022-11-15T17:11:09Z
last-modified:  2022-12-20T16:11:23Z
source: RIPE

organisation:   ORG-JME1-RIPE
org-name:   JSC Mediasoft ekspert
country:    RU
org-type:   LIR
address:    2a Schelkovskoe sh.
address:    105122
address:    Moscow
address:    RUSSIAN FEDERATION
phone:  +74957295734
fax-no: +74957295734
admin-c:    FVV36-RIPE
admin-c:    PSK26-RIPE
admin-c:    EE761-RIPE
abuse-c:    MN3617-RIPE
mnt-ref:    RIPE-NCC-HM-MNT
mnt-ref:    MTW-MNT
mnt-ref:    AS2118-MNT
mnt-by: RIPE-NCC-HM-MNT
mnt-by: MTW-MNT
created:    2008-02-11T11:21:07Z
last-modified:  2020-12-16T13:05:31Z
source: RIPE # Filtered

person: Alexey Khoroshilov
address:    117403, Moscow, MKAD, 32nd km, 7A
phone:  +7 (495) 134-01-12
nic-hdl:    AK14258-RIPE
mnt-by: MT-TECHNOLOGY-NET
created:    2015-06-24T12:10:58Z
last-modified:  2015-06-24T12:10:58Z
source: RIPE # Filtered

% Information related to '194.87.244.0/24AS9002'

route:  194.87.244.0/24
origin: AS9002
mnt-by: interlir-mnt
created:    2022-11-15T17:11:52Z
last-modified:  2022-11-15T17:11:52Z
source: RIPE

% This query was served by the RIPE Database Query Service version 1.106 
(SHETLAND)


Tracing the location (probably not accurate) gives me a location right 
next to the "State Kremlin Palace".

55.752199,37.6155

Yeah, that sounds benign...  So is this normal, or should I contact the FBI?







On 3/10/23 12:43 PM, Bruce Labitt wrote:
In email headers, are there any fields which are not spoof-able?  Or 
is email simply a morass that is totally unsolvable and broken?  
Simply impossible to filter spam?  Now I am getting spam that is 
passing all the dmarc, spf, and dkim checks.  Volume is relatively low 
at the moment, 6 in 12 hours, but I am sure the bad guys are working 
on increasing the volume.


In particular, is

X-Origin-Country reliable?  Or is this data field unsuitable for 
filtering as well?


Are there any mail client pre-filtering packages that can be added?  
Or is this a game best left to?





On 3/9/23 2:44 PM, Bruce Labitt wrote:
Spoke too soon.  I am far from understanding this all, but why would 
my ISP send me mail that failed the following tests?
dmarc, spf or dkim?  The latest spam I received failed _all_ three 
tests.


It appears not everyone is consistent with using this stuff, I found 
an email from South West Airlines that apparently doesn't use dmarc, 
but at least it passed spf and dkim.  What a mess.


I tried to send this email and it was blocked when I included the 
dmarc text.


On 3/9/23 11:49 AM, Bruce Labitt wrote:

Crossing fingers, my spam storm has paused.  No spam since 3:27 EST
yesterday.

Cleaned out tons of old spam off my phone, which was tedious.  Found
some miss-classified spam that were legitimate emails, like from
attorneys and banks, that I never received.  Loads of stock tips, scams,
assorted pharmaceuticals, and of course, invitations to honeypots of the
female persuasion.  Some were quite amusing.

Need to get back to the email spam storm on my wife's account now.
Not sure if one her groups she belongs to was compromised and her email
account sold to spammers or not. Seems like it.

My kids, both on different ISP's had no increase in spam in the past
week.  I asked them last night, trying to figure out if this was a local
thing, or more wide spread.  Guess it was local, or their ISP's were
more on the ball.



On 3/8/23 5:59 PM, Bruce Labitt wrote:

I think that something has been going on for a bit now.

However, I did go through some ancient spam emails (don't ask me why
they were still around, I plumb forgot they were accumulating) a

Re: Email & Spam

[Bruce Labitt]

In email headers, are there any fields which are not spoof-able?  Or is 
email simply a morass that is totally unsolvable and broken?  Simply 
impossible to filter spam? Now I am getting spam that is passing all the 
dmarc, spf, and dkim checks.  Volume is relatively low at the moment, 6 
in 12 hours, but I am sure the bad guys are working on increasing the 
volume.


In particular, is

X-Origin-Country reliable?  Or is this data field unsuitable for 
filtering as well?


Are there any mail client pre-filtering packages that can be added?  Or 
is this a game best left to?





On 3/9/23 2:44 PM, Bruce Labitt wrote:
Spoke too soon.  I am far from understanding this all, but why would 
my ISP send me mail that failed the following tests?

dmarc, spf or dkim?  The latest spam I received failed _all_ three tests.

It appears not everyone is consistent with using this stuff, I found 
an email from South West Airlines that apparently doesn't use dmarc, 
but at least it passed spf and dkim.  What a mess.


I tried to send this email and it was blocked when I included the 
dmarc text.


On 3/9/23 11:49 AM, Bruce Labitt wrote:

Crossing fingers, my spam storm has paused.  No spam since 3:27 EST
yesterday.

Cleaned out tons of old spam off my phone, which was tedious.  Found
some miss-classified spam that were legitimate emails, like from
attorneys and banks, that I never received.  Loads of stock tips, scams,
assorted pharmaceuticals, and of course, invitations to honeypots of the
female persuasion.  Some were quite amusing.

Need to get back to the email spam storm on my wife's account now.
Not sure if one her groups she belongs to was compromised and her email
account sold to spammers or not. Seems like it.

My kids, both on different ISP's had no increase in spam in the past
week.  I asked them last night, trying to figure out if this was a local
thing, or more wide spread.  Guess it was local, or their ISP's were
more on the ball.



On 3/8/23 5:59 PM, Bruce Labitt wrote:

I think that something has been going on for a bit now.

However, I did go through some ancient spam emails (don't ask me why
they were still around, I plumb forgot they were accumulating) and found
quite a few of them posing as family members and people I knew, but were
not legitimate.  Examining the headers showed they were trying to fool
me.  All of them wanted me to click on some link - hoping to do some
nefarious thing or another to me.  Many were from RU.

Oh, I have been using the filters!  I have filtered every domain ending
in xyz, .store and a few others.  It's not as easy to filter against
yourself...

Is it better to have these messages go to junk, or direct to trash?
Using Thunderbird if that matters.


On 3/8/23 5:22 PM, Ronald Smith wrote:

Hi all,

There is a coordinated attack happening right now on many forms of 
communication; email, social media, everything -- someone doesn't want people 
communicating right now. The increase in spam is just part of it.

Emails that I've sent to gmail have been bounced, maybe because gmail has 
tightened their filters, maybe it's a false flag. I'm not sure and I'm not 
going waste my time tracking it down right now. If someone wants to reach me, 
they can just call me on the phone.

To the guy who said you should block all the IP's in the header -- that's 
ABSOLUTELY WRONG! Whoever has launched this attack wants folks to do that -- 
they want folks to block stuff to further limit communication. Don't do that!

You can only trust the top "Received" notice in your email header. SMTP servers are 
supposed to tack on their info to the top of the message and send it along to the next server, but 
spammers or provocateurs will often falsify the tracking info below the most recent 
"Received" line, so you should just ignore that.

Just put up with the spam for now; don't over-react. Your email providers will 
know how to handle this if they have enough experience. Use the filters in your 
client if you need to.

Have fun...

Ronald Smith
r...@mrt4.com
603-360-1000

- - - -

On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 13:31:56 -0500
Bruce Labitt  wrote:


Seems to be an uptick in spam received lately.  Doesn't seem that my ISP
is on top of it.  In the past 48 hours have received at least three
dozen spams from similar parties.  Many seem to be coming from *.store
domains.  I haven't knowingly ever visited one of these domains.

I don't think I want to run my own email server - mostly because 1) I
really don't know how to set one up, and 2) it sounds like a bit of work
to maintain.  Of course, I could be wrong, which is why I am asking.

I did a whois, and due to privacy cr*p, there's no longer a way to get
to the registrants.  I can see why this might be, but it does make it
harder to report people.  I did report a couple of domains as spammers
to godaddy, since I *think* they were the registrar.  This really
doesn't seem kosher to me, since godaddy gets revenue from the
spammers.  I also reported a domain or two to my IS

Re: Email & Spam

[Bruce Labitt]

Spoke too soon.  I am far from understanding this all, but why would my 
ISP send me mail that failed the following tests?

dmarc, spf or dkim?  The latest spam I received failed _all_ three tests.

It appears not everyone is consistent with using this stuff, I found an 
email from South West Airlines that apparently doesn't use dmarc, but at 
least it passed spf and dkim.  What a mess.


I tried to send this email and it was blocked when I included the dmarc 
text.


On 3/9/23 11:49 AM, Bruce Labitt wrote:

Crossing fingers, my spam storm has paused.  No spam since 3:27 EST
yesterday.

Cleaned out tons of old spam off my phone, which was tedious.  Found
some miss-classified spam that were legitimate emails, like from
attorneys and banks, that I never received.  Loads of stock tips, scams,
assorted pharmaceuticals, and of course, invitations to honeypots of the
female persuasion.  Some were quite amusing.

Need to get back to the email spam storm on my wife's account now.
Not sure if one her groups she belongs to was compromised and her email
account sold to spammers or not. Seems like it.

My kids, both on different ISP's had no increase in spam in the past
week.  I asked them last night, trying to figure out if this was a local
thing, or more wide spread.  Guess it was local, or their ISP's were
more on the ball.



On 3/8/23 5:59 PM, Bruce Labitt wrote:

I think that something has been going on for a bit now.

However, I did go through some ancient spam emails (don't ask me why
they were still around, I plumb forgot they were accumulating) and found
quite a few of them posing as family members and people I knew, but were
not legitimate.  Examining the headers showed they were trying to fool
me.  All of them wanted me to click on some link - hoping to do some
nefarious thing or another to me.  Many were from RU.

Oh, I have been using the filters!  I have filtered every domain ending
in xyz, .store and a few others.  It's not as easy to filter against
yourself...

Is it better to have these messages go to junk, or direct to trash?
Using Thunderbird if that matters.


On 3/8/23 5:22 PM, Ronald Smith wrote:

Hi all,

There is a coordinated attack happening right now on many forms of 
communication; email, social media, everything -- someone doesn't want people 
communicating right now. The increase in spam is just part of it.

Emails that I've sent to gmail have been bounced, maybe because gmail has 
tightened their filters, maybe it's a false flag. I'm not sure and I'm not 
going waste my time tracking it down right now. If someone wants to reach me, 
they can just call me on the phone.

To the guy who said you should block all the IP's in the header -- that's 
ABSOLUTELY WRONG! Whoever has launched this attack wants folks to do that -- 
they want folks to block stuff to further limit communication. Don't do that!

You can only trust the top "Received" notice in your email header. SMTP servers are 
supposed to tack on their info to the top of the message and send it along to the next server, but 
spammers or provocateurs will often falsify the tracking info below the most recent 
"Received" line, so you should just ignore that.

Just put up with the spam for now; don't over-react. Your email providers will 
know how to handle this if they have enough experience. Use the filters in your 
client if you need to.

Have fun...

Ronald Smith
r...@mrt4.com
603-360-1000

- - - -

On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 13:31:56 -0500
Bruce Labitt  wrote:


Seems to be an uptick in spam received lately.  Doesn't seem that my ISP
is on top of it.  In the past 48 hours have received at least three
dozen spams from similar parties.  Many seem to be coming from *.store
domains.  I haven't knowingly ever visited one of these domains.

I don't think I want to run my own email server - mostly because 1) I
really don't know how to set one up, and 2) it sounds like a bit of work
to maintain.  Of course, I could be wrong, which is why I am asking.

I did a whois, and due to privacy cr*p, there's no longer a way to get
to the registrants.  I can see why this might be, but it does make it
harder to report people.  I did report a couple of domains as spammers
to godaddy, since I *think* they were the registrar.  This really
doesn't seem kosher to me, since godaddy gets revenue from the
spammers.  I also reported a domain or two to my ISP.  Things have
slightly slowed down, but I am not holding my breath.

In my wife's case, one or more of her acquaintances (with Windows
computers?) have had their accounts compromised or information stolen,
and she has been super subscribed to what seems like dozens and dozens
of spamming lists.  Her spam folder on her phone receives may hundreds
of emails a day - it's really out of control.  How can we get out of
this mess?

Anyways, are there any practical ways to get a better handle on this?
Looking for some ideas.  Thanks for any and all suggestions.  I hope
this would be a topic of interest to others on this l

Re: Email & Spam

[Bruce Labitt]

Crossing fingers, my spam storm has paused.  No spam since 3:27 EST 
yesterday.

Cleaned out tons of old spam off my phone, which was tedious.  Found 
some miss-classified spam that were legitimate emails, like from 
attorneys and banks, that I never received.  Loads of stock tips, scams, 
assorted pharmaceuticals, and of course, invitations to honeypots of the 
female persuasion.  Some were quite amusing.

Need to get back to the email spam storm on my wife's account now.
Not sure if one her groups she belongs to was compromised and her email 
account sold to spammers or not. Seems like it.

My kids, both on different ISP's had no increase in spam in the past 
week.  I asked them last night, trying to figure out if this was a local 
thing, or more wide spread.  Guess it was local, or their ISP's were 
more on the ball.



On 3/8/23 5:59 PM, Bruce Labitt wrote:
> I think that something has been going on for a bit now.
>
> However, I did go through some ancient spam emails (don't ask me why
> they were still around, I plumb forgot they were accumulating) and found
> quite a few of them posing as family members and people I knew, but were
> not legitimate.  Examining the headers showed they were trying to fool
> me.  All of them wanted me to click on some link - hoping to do some
> nefarious thing or another to me.  Many were from RU.
>
> Oh, I have been using the filters!  I have filtered every domain ending
> in xyz, .store and a few others.  It's not as easy to filter against
> yourself...
>
> Is it better to have these messages go to junk, or direct to trash?
> Using Thunderbird if that matters.
>
>
> On 3/8/23 5:22 PM, Ronald Smith wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> There is a coordinated attack happening right now on many forms of 
>> communication; email, social media, everything -- someone doesn't want 
>> people communicating right now. The increase in spam is just part of it.
>>
>> Emails that I've sent to gmail have been bounced, maybe because gmail has 
>> tightened their filters, maybe it's a false flag. I'm not sure and I'm not 
>> going waste my time tracking it down right now. If someone wants to reach 
>> me, they can just call me on the phone.
>>
>> To the guy who said you should block all the IP's in the header -- that's 
>> ABSOLUTELY WRONG! Whoever has launched this attack wants folks to do that -- 
>> they want folks to block stuff to further limit communication. Don't do that!
>>
>> You can only trust the top "Received" notice in your email header. SMTP 
>> servers are supposed to tack on their info to the top of the message and 
>> send it along to the next server, but spammers or provocateurs will often 
>> falsify the tracking info below the most recent "Received" line, so you 
>> should just ignore that.
>>
>> Just put up with the spam for now; don't over-react. Your email providers 
>> will know how to handle this if they have enough experience. Use the filters 
>> in your client if you need to.
>>
>> Have fun...
>>
>> Ronald Smith
>> r...@mrt4.com
>> 603-360-1000
>>
>> - - - -
>>
>> On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 13:31:56 -0500
>> Bruce Labitt  wrote:
>>
>>> Seems to be an uptick in spam received lately.  Doesn't seem that my ISP
>>> is on top of it.  In the past 48 hours have received at least three
>>> dozen spams from similar parties.  Many seem to be coming from *.store
>>> domains.  I haven't knowingly ever visited one of these domains.
>>>
>>> I don't think I want to run my own email server - mostly because 1) I
>>> really don't know how to set one up, and 2) it sounds like a bit of work
>>> to maintain.  Of course, I could be wrong, which is why I am asking.
>>>
>>> I did a whois, and due to privacy cr*p, there's no longer a way to get
>>> to the registrants.  I can see why this might be, but it does make it
>>> harder to report people.  I did report a couple of domains as spammers
>>> to godaddy, since I *think* they were the registrar.  This really
>>> doesn't seem kosher to me, since godaddy gets revenue from the
>>> spammers.  I also reported a domain or two to my ISP.  Things have
>>> slightly slowed down, but I am not holding my breath.
>>>
>>> In my wife's case, one or more of her acquaintances (with Windows
>>> computers?) have had their accounts compromised or information stolen,
>>> and she has been super subscribed to what seems like dozens and dozens
>>> of spamming lists.  Her spam folder on her phone receives may hundreds
>>> of emails a day - it's really out of control.  How can we get out of
>>> this mess?
>>>
>>> Anyways, are there any practical ways to get a better handle on this?
>>> Looking for some ideas.  Thanks for any and all suggestions.  I hope
>>> this would be a topic of interest to others on this list.  If for no
>>> other reason to share what worked and what didn't.
>>>
>>> ___
>>> gnhlug-discuss mailing list
>>> gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org
>>> http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
>
> 

Re: Email & Spam

[Bruce Labitt]

I think that something has been going on for a bit now.

However, I did go through some ancient spam emails (don't ask me why 
they were still around, I plumb forgot they were accumulating) and found 
quite a few of them posing as family members and people I knew, but were 
not legitimate.  Examining the headers showed they were trying to fool 
me.  All of them wanted me to click on some link - hoping to do some 
nefarious thing or another to me.  Many were from RU.

Oh, I have been using the filters!  I have filtered every domain ending 
in xyz, .store and a few others.  It's not as easy to filter against 
yourself...

Is it better to have these messages go to junk, or direct to trash?  
Using Thunderbird if that matters.


On 3/8/23 5:22 PM, Ronald Smith wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> There is a coordinated attack happening right now on many forms of 
> communication; email, social media, everything -- someone doesn't want people 
> communicating right now. The increase in spam is just part of it.
>
> Emails that I've sent to gmail have been bounced, maybe because gmail has 
> tightened their filters, maybe it's a false flag. I'm not sure and I'm not 
> going waste my time tracking it down right now. If someone wants to reach me, 
> they can just call me on the phone.
>
> To the guy who said you should block all the IP's in the header -- that's 
> ABSOLUTELY WRONG! Whoever has launched this attack wants folks to do that -- 
> they want folks to block stuff to further limit communication. Don't do that!
>
> You can only trust the top "Received" notice in your email header. SMTP 
> servers are supposed to tack on their info to the top of the message and send 
> it along to the next server, but spammers or provocateurs will often falsify 
> the tracking info below the most recent "Received" line, so you should just 
> ignore that.
>
> Just put up with the spam for now; don't over-react. Your email providers 
> will know how to handle this if they have enough experience. Use the filters 
> in your client if you need to.
>
> Have fun...
>
> Ronald Smith
> r...@mrt4.com
> 603-360-1000
>
> - - - -
>
> On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 13:31:56 -0500
> Bruce Labitt  wrote:
>
>> Seems to be an uptick in spam received lately.  Doesn't seem that my ISP
>> is on top of it.  In the past 48 hours have received at least three
>> dozen spams from similar parties.  Many seem to be coming from *.store
>> domains.  I haven't knowingly ever visited one of these domains.
>>
>> I don't think I want to run my own email server - mostly because 1) I
>> really don't know how to set one up, and 2) it sounds like a bit of work
>> to maintain.  Of course, I could be wrong, which is why I am asking.
>>
>> I did a whois, and due to privacy cr*p, there's no longer a way to get
>> to the registrants.  I can see why this might be, but it does make it
>> harder to report people.  I did report a couple of domains as spammers
>> to godaddy, since I *think* they were the registrar.  This really
>> doesn't seem kosher to me, since godaddy gets revenue from the
>> spammers.  I also reported a domain or two to my ISP.  Things have
>> slightly slowed down, but I am not holding my breath.
>>
>> In my wife's case, one or more of her acquaintances (with Windows
>> computers?) have had their accounts compromised or information stolen,
>> and she has been super subscribed to what seems like dozens and dozens
>> of spamming lists.  Her spam folder on her phone receives may hundreds
>> of emails a day - it's really out of control.  How can we get out of
>> this mess?
>>
>> Anyways, are there any practical ways to get a better handle on this?
>> Looking for some ideas.  Thanks for any and all suggestions.  I hope
>> this would be a topic of interest to others on this list.  If for no
>> other reason to share what worked and what didn't.
>>
>> ___
>> gnhlug-discuss mailing list
>> gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org
>> http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/


___
gnhlug-discuss mailing list
gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org
http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/

Re: Email & Spam

[Bryan Borsa]

I said report the IP’s not block.

I don’t see anywhere where blocking IP’s was mentioned by anyone.

 - Bryan



> On Mar 8, 2023, at 5:22 PM, Ronald Smith  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> There is a coordinated attack happening right now on many forms of 
> communication; email, social media, everything -- someone doesn't want people 
> communicating right now. The increase in spam is just part of it.
> 
> Emails that I've sent to gmail have been bounced, maybe because gmail has 
> tightened their filters, maybe it's a false flag. I'm not sure and I'm not 
> going waste my time tracking it down right now. If someone wants to reach me, 
> they can just call me on the phone.
> 
> To the guy who said you should block all the IP's in the header -- that's 
> ABSOLUTELY WRONG! Whoever has launched this attack wants folks to do that -- 
> they want folks to block stuff to further limit communication. Don't do that!
> 
> You can only trust the top "Received" notice in your email header. SMTP 
> servers are supposed to tack on their info to the top of the message and send 
> it along to the next server, but spammers or provocateurs will often falsify 
> the tracking info below the most recent "Received" line, so you should just 
> ignore that. 
> 
> Just put up with the spam for now; don't over-react. Your email providers 
> will know how to handle this if they have enough experience. Use the filters 
> in your client if you need to.
> 
> Have fun...
> 
> Ronald Smith
> r...@mrt4.com
> 603-360-1000
> 
> - - - -
> 
> On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 13:31:56 -0500
> Bruce Labitt  wrote:
> 
>> Seems to be an uptick in spam received lately.  Doesn't seem that my ISP 
>> is on top of it.  In the past 48 hours have received at least three 
>> dozen spams from similar parties.  Many seem to be coming from *.store 
>> domains.  I haven't knowingly ever visited one of these domains.
>> 
>> I don't think I want to run my own email server - mostly because 1) I 
>> really don't know how to set one up, and 2) it sounds like a bit of work 
>> to maintain.  Of course, I could be wrong, which is why I am asking.
>> 
>> I did a whois, and due to privacy cr*p, there's no longer a way to get 
>> to the registrants.  I can see why this might be, but it does make it 
>> harder to report people.  I did report a couple of domains as spammers 
>> to godaddy, since I *think* they were the registrar.  This really 
>> doesn't seem kosher to me, since godaddy gets revenue from the 
>> spammers.  I also reported a domain or two to my ISP.  Things have 
>> slightly slowed down, but I am not holding my breath.
>> 
>> In my wife's case, one or more of her acquaintances (with Windows 
>> computers?) have had their accounts compromised or information stolen, 
>> and she has been super subscribed to what seems like dozens and dozens 
>> of spamming lists.  Her spam folder on her phone receives may hundreds 
>> of emails a day - it's really out of control.  How can we get out of 
>> this mess?
>> 
>> Anyways, are there any practical ways to get a better handle on this? 
>> Looking for some ideas.  Thanks for any and all suggestions.  I hope 
>> this would be a topic of interest to others on this list.  If for no 
>> other reason to share what worked and what didn't.
>> 
>> ___
>> gnhlug-discuss mailing list
>> gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org
>> http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
> 
> ___
> gnhlug-discuss mailing list
> gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org
> http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/


___
gnhlug-discuss mailing list
gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org
http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/

Re: Email & Spam

[Ronald Smith]

Hi all,

There is a coordinated attack happening right now on many forms of 
communication; email, social media, everything -- someone doesn't want people 
communicating right now. The increase in spam is just part of it.

Emails that I've sent to gmail have been bounced, maybe because gmail has 
tightened their filters, maybe it's a false flag. I'm not sure and I'm not 
going waste my time tracking it down right now. If someone wants to reach me, 
they can just call me on the phone.

To the guy who said you should block all the IP's in the header -- that's 
ABSOLUTELY WRONG! Whoever has launched this attack wants folks to do that -- 
they want folks to block stuff to further limit communication. Don't do that!

You can only trust the top "Received" notice in your email header. SMTP servers 
are supposed to tack on their info to the top of the message and send it along 
to the next server, but spammers or provocateurs will often falsify the 
tracking info below the most recent "Received" line, so you should just ignore 
that. 

Just put up with the spam for now; don't over-react. Your email providers will 
know how to handle this if they have enough experience. Use the filters in your 
client if you need to.

Have fun...

Ronald Smith
r...@mrt4.com
603-360-1000

- - - -

On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 13:31:56 -0500
Bruce Labitt  wrote:

> Seems to be an uptick in spam received lately.  Doesn't seem that my ISP 
> is on top of it.  In the past 48 hours have received at least three 
> dozen spams from similar parties.  Many seem to be coming from *.store 
> domains.  I haven't knowingly ever visited one of these domains.
> 
> I don't think I want to run my own email server - mostly because 1) I 
> really don't know how to set one up, and 2) it sounds like a bit of work 
> to maintain.  Of course, I could be wrong, which is why I am asking.
> 
> I did a whois, and due to privacy cr*p, there's no longer a way to get 
> to the registrants.  I can see why this might be, but it does make it 
> harder to report people.  I did report a couple of domains as spammers 
> to godaddy, since I *think* they were the registrar.  This really 
> doesn't seem kosher to me, since godaddy gets revenue from the 
> spammers.  I also reported a domain or two to my ISP.  Things have 
> slightly slowed down, but I am not holding my breath.
> 
> In my wife's case, one or more of her acquaintances (with Windows 
> computers?) have had their accounts compromised or information stolen, 
> and she has been super subscribed to what seems like dozens and dozens 
> of spamming lists.  Her spam folder on her phone receives may hundreds 
> of emails a day - it's really out of control.  How can we get out of 
> this mess?
> 
> Anyways, are there any practical ways to get a better handle on this? 
> Looking for some ideas.  Thanks for any and all suggestions.  I hope 
> this would be a topic of interest to others on this list.  If for no 
> other reason to share what worked and what didn't.
> 
> ___
> gnhlug-discuss mailing list
> gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org
> http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/

___
gnhlug-discuss mailing list
gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org
http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/

Re: Email & Spam

[Bruce Labitt]

Radix?  That name did not show in my $ whois output.

$ whois --version
Version 5.5.13.

Well I did send all the message source info to godaddy when I filed the 
abuse complaint.  I also sent the same info to my ISP.  There's 
practically been no change so far, just a new "sender" has arrived to 
take the previous one's place.


Apparently this is an ongoing battle. Are there any better ISP's that 
are more aggressive about taking this spam issue more seriously?  Are 
there any anti spam laws in NH, or the US?  There is the CAN-SPAM act, 
according to the FTC, but these spammers put in enough info to 
technically be close to compliance.


The fact that many of these spams are

X-Origin-Country: RU

Gives me pause.


On 3/8/23 4:24 PM, Bryan Borsa wrote:

The registry is Radix
The registrar is GoDaddy

My command line whois outputs more info than what is below ( the 
registry info for example ) , but the Registrar info is the same.


Domains By Proxy is also GoDaddy, well, owned by the same guy that 
founded it anyway, they’re connected. It is almost certain that this 
domain name was purchased from them.


To know where a spam email originated from though, you would have to 
parse the email headers, which would list the IP address of every mail 
server it went through.  Reporting those IP’s is generally more 
effective at stopping spam than reporting domain names.


There are likely automated ways of doing that, but I am not familiar 
with them.  I do know that mail server reputation is something that 
mail providers / businesses care about ( to some extent anyway, and 
some more than others ), because they get shut off if it gets too low. 
( other people won’t take their mail ).




 - Bryan








On Mar 8, 2023, at 2:06 PM, Bruce Labitt 
 wrote:


Perhaps I am misunderstanding how to interpret the output.  This is 
one of the outputs of whois


$ whois aagyemang.store
Domain Name: AAGYEMANG.STORE
Registry Domain ID: D345146502-CNIC
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.godaddy.com
Registrar URL: https://www.godaddy.com/
Updated Date: 2023-02-23T09:25:07.0Z
Creation Date: 2023-01-23T21:28:02.0Z
Registry Expiry Date: 2024-01-23T23:59:59.0Z
Registrar: Go Daddy, LLC
Registrar IANA ID: 146
Domain Status: serverTransferProhibited 
https://icann.org/epp#serverTransferProhibited
Domain Status: clientRenewProhibited 
https://icann.org/epp#clientRenewProhibited
Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited 
https://icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited
Domain Status: clientUpdateProhibited 
https://icann.org/epp#clientUpdateProhibited
Domain Status: clientDeleteProhibited 
https://icann.org/epp#clientDeleteProhibited

Registrant Organization: Domains By Proxy, LLC
Registrant State/Province: Arizona
Registrant Country: US
Registrant Email: Please query the RDDS service of the Registrar of 
Record identified in this output for information on how to contact 
the Registrant, Admin, or Tech contact of the queried domain name.
Admin Email: Please query the RDDS service of the Registrar of Record 
identified in this output for information on how to contact the 
Registrant, Admin, or Tech contact of the queried domain name.
Tech Email: Please query the RDDS service of the Registrar of Record 
identified in this output for information on how to contact the 
Registrant, Admin, or Tech contact of the queried domain name.

Name Server: NS37.DOMAINCONTROL.COM
Name Server: NS38.DOMAINCONTROL.COM
DNSSEC: unsigned
Billing Email: Please query the RDDS service of the Registrar of 
Record identified in this output for information on how to contact 
the Registrant, Admin, or Tech contact of the queried domain name.

Registrar Abuse Contact Email: ab...@godaddy.com
Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +1.4805058800
URL of the ICANN Whois Inaccuracy Complaint Form: 
https://www.icann.org/wicf/

>>> Last update of WHOIS database: 2023-03-08T18:40:36.0Z <<<

For more information on Whois status codes, please visit 
https://icann.org/epp


>>> IMPORTANT INFORMATION ABOUT THE DEPLOYMENT OF RDAP: please visit
https://www.centralnic.com/support/rdap <<<

The Whois and RDAP services are provided by CentralNic, and contain
information pertaining to Internet domain names registered by our
our customers. By using this service you are agreeing (1) not to use any
information presented here for any purpose other than determining
ownership of domain names, (2) not to store or reproduce this data in
any way, (3) not to use any high-volume, automated, electronic processes
to obtain data from this service. Abuse of this service is monitored and
actions in contravention of these terms will result in being permanently
blacklisted. All data is (c) CentralNic Ltd (https://www.centralnic.com)

Access to the Whois and RDAP services is rate limited. For more
information, visit 
https://registrar-console.centralnic.com/pub/whois_guidance.



Registrar is godaddy.  I did contact ab...@godaddy.com.  Is there a 
more automated (scripted?) way of getting this done?  So it doesn't

Re: Email & Spam

[Bryan Borsa]

The registry is Radix
The registrar is GoDaddy

My command line whois outputs more info than what is below ( the registry info 
for example ) , but the Registrar info is the same.

Domains By Proxy is also GoDaddy, well, owned by the same guy that founded it 
anyway, they’re connected. It is almost certain that this domain name was 
purchased from them.

To know where a spam email originated from though, you would have to parse the 
email headers, which would list the IP address of every mail server it went 
through.  Reporting those IP’s is generally more effective at stopping spam 
than reporting domain names.

There are likely automated ways of doing that, but I am not familiar with them. 
 I do know that mail server reputation is something that mail providers / 
businesses care about ( to some extent anyway, and some more than others ), 
because they get shut off if it gets too low. ( other people won’t take their 
mail ).



 - Bryan








> On Mar 8, 2023, at 2:06 PM, Bruce Labitt  wrote:
> 
> Perhaps I am misunderstanding how to interpret the output.  This is one of 
> the outputs of whois
> 
> $ whois aagyemang.store
> Domain Name: AAGYEMANG.STORE
> Registry Domain ID: D345146502-CNIC
> Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.godaddy.com
> Registrar URL: https://www.godaddy.com/
> Updated Date: 2023-02-23T09:25:07.0Z
> Creation Date: 2023-01-23T21:28:02.0Z
> Registry Expiry Date: 2024-01-23T23:59:59.0Z
> Registrar: Go Daddy, LLC
> Registrar IANA ID: 146
> Domain Status: serverTransferProhibited 
> https://icann.org/epp#serverTransferProhibited
> Domain Status: clientRenewProhibited 
> https://icann.org/epp#clientRenewProhibited
> Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited 
> https://icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited
> Domain Status: clientUpdateProhibited 
> https://icann.org/epp#clientUpdateProhibited
> Domain Status: clientDeleteProhibited 
> https://icann.org/epp#clientDeleteProhibited
> Registrant Organization: Domains By Proxy, LLC
> Registrant State/Province: Arizona
> Registrant Country: US
> Registrant Email: Please query the RDDS service of the Registrar of Record 
> identified in this output for information on how to contact the Registrant, 
> Admin, or Tech contact of the queried domain name.
> Admin Email: Please query the RDDS service of the Registrar of Record 
> identified in this output for information on how to contact the Registrant, 
> Admin, or Tech contact of the queried domain name.
> Tech Email: Please query the RDDS service of the Registrar of Record 
> identified in this output for information on how to contact the Registrant, 
> Admin, or Tech contact of the queried domain name.
> Name Server: NS37.DOMAINCONTROL.COM
> Name Server: NS38.DOMAINCONTROL.COM
> DNSSEC: unsigned
> Billing Email: Please query the RDDS service of the Registrar of Record 
> identified in this output for information on how to contact the 
> Registrant, Admin, or Tech contact of the queried domain name.
> Registrar Abuse Contact Email: ab...@godaddy.com 
> Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +1.4805058800
> URL of the ICANN Whois Inaccuracy Complaint Form: https://www.icann.org/wicf/
> >>> Last update of WHOIS database: 2023-03-08T18:40:36.0Z <<<
> 
> For more information on Whois status codes, please visit https://icann.org/epp
> 
> >>> IMPORTANT INFORMATION ABOUT THE DEPLOYMENT OF RDAP: please visit
> https://www.centralnic.com/support/rdap <<<
> 
> The Whois and RDAP services are provided by CentralNic, and contain
> information pertaining to Internet domain names registered by our
> our customers. By using this service you are agreeing (1) not to use any
> information presented here for any purpose other than determining
> ownership of domain names, (2) not to store or reproduce this data in
> any way, (3) not to use any high-volume, automated, electronic processes
> to obtain data from this service. Abuse of this service is monitored and
> actions in contravention of these terms will result in being permanently
> blacklisted. All data is (c) CentralNic Ltd (https://www.centralnic.com 
> )
> 
> Access to the Whois and RDAP services is rate limited. For more
> information, visit 
> https://registrar-console.centralnic.com/pub/whois_guidance.
> 
> 
> Registrar is godaddy.  I did contact ab...@godaddy.com 
> .  Is there a more automated (scripted?) way of 
> getting this done?  So it doesn't take so much of my time?  It feels like 
> tilting at windmills, but, it would be good to fight back a little.  Domains 
> by Proxy is the intermediary - a corporation set up to "manage unsolicited 
> contacts from third parties and keeping the domains owners' personal 
> information secret".  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domains_by_Proxy
> 
> Is ab...@godaddy.com  the only (legitimate) 
> mechanism available to me?
> 
> What does the domain status above mean?  That the status is unavailable to 
> me?  Or some

Re: Email & Spam

[Bruce Labitt]

Perhaps I am misunderstanding how to interpret the output.  This is one 
of the outputs of whois


$ whois aagyemang.store
Domain Name: AAGYEMANG.STORE
Registry Domain ID: D345146502-CNIC
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.godaddy.com
Registrar URL: https://www.godaddy.com/
Updated Date: 2023-02-23T09:25:07.0Z
Creation Date: 2023-01-23T21:28:02.0Z
Registry Expiry Date: 2024-01-23T23:59:59.0Z
Registrar: Go Daddy, LLC
Registrar IANA ID: 146
Domain Status: serverTransferProhibited 
https://icann.org/epp#serverTransferProhibited
Domain Status: clientRenewProhibited 
https://icann.org/epp#clientRenewProhibited
Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited 
https://icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited
Domain Status: clientUpdateProhibited 
https://icann.org/epp#clientUpdateProhibited
Domain Status: clientDeleteProhibited 
https://icann.org/epp#clientDeleteProhibited

Registrant Organization: Domains By Proxy, LLC
Registrant State/Province: Arizona
Registrant Country: US
Registrant Email: Please query the RDDS service of the Registrar of 
Record identified in this output for information on how to contact the 
Registrant, Admin, or Tech contact of the queried domain name.
Admin Email: Please query the RDDS service of the Registrar of Record 
identified in this output for information on how to contact the 
Registrant, Admin, or Tech contact of the queried domain name.
Tech Email: Please query the RDDS service of the Registrar of Record 
identified in this output for information on how to contact the 
Registrant, Admin, or Tech contact of the queried domain name.

Name Server: NS37.DOMAINCONTROL.COM
Name Server: NS38.DOMAINCONTROL.COM
DNSSEC: unsigned
Billing Email: Please query the RDDS service of the Registrar of Record 
identified in this output for information on how to contact the 
Registrant, Admin, or Tech contact of the queried domain name.

Registrar Abuse Contact Email: ab...@godaddy.com
Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +1.4805058800
URL of the ICANN Whois Inaccuracy Complaint Form: 
https://www.icann.org/wicf/

>>> Last update of WHOIS database: 2023-03-08T18:40:36.0Z <<<

For more information on Whois status codes, please visit 
https://icann.org/epp


>>> IMPORTANT INFORMATION ABOUT THE DEPLOYMENT OF RDAP: please visit
https://www.centralnic.com/support/rdap <<<

The Whois and RDAP services are provided by CentralNic, and contain
information pertaining to Internet domain names registered by our
our customers. By using this service you are agreeing (1) not to use any
information presented here for any purpose other than determining
ownership of domain names, (2) not to store or reproduce this data in
any way, (3) not to use any high-volume, automated, electronic processes
to obtain data from this service. Abuse of this service is monitored and
actions in contravention of these terms will result in being permanently
blacklisted. All data is (c) CentralNic Ltd (https://www.centralnic.com)

Access to the Whois and RDAP services is rate limited. For more
information, visit 
https://registrar-console.centralnic.com/pub/whois_guidance.



Registrar is godaddy.  I did contact ab...@godaddy.com.  Is there a more 
automated (scripted?) way of getting this done?  So it doesn't take so 
much of my time?  It feels like tilting at windmills, but, it would be 
good to fight back a little.  Domains by Proxy is the intermediary - a 
corporation set up to "manage unsolicited contacts from third parties 
and keeping the domains owners' personal information secret". 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domains_by_Proxy


Is ab...@godaddy.com the only (legitimate) mechanism available to me?

What does the domain status above mean?  That the status is unavailable 
to me?  Or something else?





On 3/8/23 1:36 PM, Bryan Borsa wrote:
The Registry and Registrar should still be visible regardless of 
domain registrant privacy settings.




On Mar 8, 2023, at 1:31 PM, Bruce Labitt 
 wrote:


I did a whois, and due to privacy cr*p, there's no longer a way to get
to the registrants.  I can see why this might be, but it does make it
harder to report people


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Re: Email & Spam

[Bryan Borsa]

The Registry and Registrar should still be visible regardless of domain 
registrant privacy settings.



> On Mar 8, 2023, at 1:31 PM, Bruce Labitt  wrote:
> 
> I did a whois, and due to privacy cr*p, there's no longer a way to get 
> to the registrants.  I can see why this might be, but it does make it 
> harder to report people

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Re: Let's try this again: 16 February, support software freedom bill HB-617-FN in Concord

[jon.maddog.h...@gmail.com]

I did submit my testimony to the electronic forum and I am happy to note I did 
not have to use any proprietary software to do that.

I will be attending the meeting tomorrow.

md
> On 02/15/2023 5:48 PM Ted Roche  wrote:
> 
>  
> If you are unable to testify in person (a much more effective option,
> I've been told), you can post your (optional) testimony and/or your
> position in favor or against the bill by navigating to:
> 
> https://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/
> 
> selecting the link labeled, "House Sign-in Form and Online Testimony 
> Submission"
> 
> registering your name, location and email, and selecting the bill you
> wish to comment on:
> Date: February 16, 2023
> Committee: House Executive Departments and Administration
> Choose the hearing time and bill: 1:00 - HB617
> Representing: yourself or others
> 
> and post whether you are in favor, opposed or neutral and optionally
> upload or enter text testimony.
> 
> Submit, review and post.
> 
> 
> On Wed, Feb 15, 2023 at 4:58 PM Joshua Judson Rosen
>  wrote:
> >
> > There will be a hearing mid-day tomorrow (Thursday) in Concord
> > regarding House Bill 617-FN, "AN ACT prohibiting, with limited exceptions,
> > state agencies from requiring use of proprietary software in interactions 
> > with the public."
> >
> > Unfortunately I have no transportation tomorrow, but maybe you'd be able to 
> > go and show your support?
> >
> > More details at 
> > 
> >
> > If you were on this list around this time last year, you may remember that 
> > there was a similar bill put forward then,
> > which failed to become law.
> > This version has apparently been trimmed to hopefully give it a better 
> > chance at doing so.
> >
> > --
> > Connect with me on the GNU social network: 
> > 
> > Not on the network? Ask me for an invitation to a social hub!
> > ___
> > gnhlug-discuss mailing list
> > gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org
> > http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
> ___
> gnhlug-discuss mailing list
> gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org
> http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
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Re: Let's try this again: 16 February, support software freedom bill HB-617-FN in Concord

[jon.maddog.h...@gmail.com]

Hi Ted,

I read this a couple of days ago, and looked at the whole bill.

There seems to be a disconnect between what I read as the meaning of the bill:

AN ACT prohibiting, with limited exceptions, state agencies from requiring use 
of proprietary software in interactions with the public.

and what is described in the FISCAL IMPACT Statement:

AN ACT prohibiting, with limited exceptions, state agencies from using 
proprietary software in interactions with the public

Note that the first one is simply saying that citizens should be able to use 
Open Source software in interacting with the state.

The second one assumes that the state can not use any proprietary software in 
dealing with the public.

This is a HUGE difference.

In addition, the FISCAL IMPACT statement talks as if every system needs a 
massive update just to meet the requirements of the bill, and that this will 
cost 1.4 Billion dollars over five years, ignoring that existing systems have 
to be updated and replaced, and ignoring that new systems should be following 
these guidelines.

I have written to Eric (who I know and have worked with in the past) pointing 
out these issues, but I have not heard back from him.

I will be going to the meeting tomorrow, but I am very short on time tomorrow, 
so unless I get a chance to talk by 1400, I may have to leave.

md


> On 02/15/2023 6:46 PM Ted Roche  wrote:
> 
>  
> I'm not sure this is the most current version of the bill, but there's
> some interesting discussion at the bottom.
> 
> https://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/bill_status/legacy/bs2016/billText.aspx?sy=2023&id=188&txtFormat=html
> 
> On Wed, Feb 15, 2023 at 5:48 PM Ted Roche  wrote:
> >
> > If you are unable to testify in person (a much more effective option,
> > I've been told), you can post your (optional) testimony and/or your
> > position in favor or against the bill by navigating to:
> >
> > https://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/
> >
> > selecting the link labeled, "House Sign-in Form and Online Testimony 
> > Submission"
> >
> > registering your name, location and email, and selecting the bill you
> > wish to comment on:
> > Date: February 16, 2023
> > Committee: House Executive Departments and Administration
> > Choose the hearing time and bill: 1:00 - HB617
> > Representing: yourself or others
> >
> > and post whether you are in favor, opposed or neutral and optionally
> > upload or enter text testimony.
> >
> > Submit, review and post.
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 15, 2023 at 4:58 PM Joshua Judson Rosen
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > > There will be a hearing mid-day tomorrow (Thursday) in Concord
> > > regarding House Bill 617-FN, "AN ACT prohibiting, with limited exceptions,
> > > state agencies from requiring use of proprietary software in interactions 
> > > with the public."
> > >
> > > Unfortunately I have no transportation tomorrow, but maybe you'd be able 
> > > to go and show your support?
> > >
> > > More details at 
> > > 
> > >
> > > If you were on this list around this time last year, you may remember 
> > > that there was a similar bill put forward then,
> > > which failed to become law.
> > > This version has apparently been trimmed to hopefully give it a better 
> > > chance at doing so.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Connect with me on the GNU social network: 
> > > 
> > > Not on the network? Ask me for an invitation to a social hub!
> > > ___
> > > gnhlug-discuss mailing list
> > > gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org
> > > http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
> ___
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> gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org
> http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
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Re: Let's try this again: 16 February, support software freedom bill HB-617-FN in Concord

[Ted Roche]

I'm not sure this is the most current version of the bill, but there's
some interesting discussion at the bottom.

https://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/bill_status/legacy/bs2016/billText.aspx?sy=2023&id=188&txtFormat=html

On Wed, Feb 15, 2023 at 5:48 PM Ted Roche  wrote:
>
> If you are unable to testify in person (a much more effective option,
> I've been told), you can post your (optional) testimony and/or your
> position in favor or against the bill by navigating to:
>
> https://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/
>
> selecting the link labeled, "House Sign-in Form and Online Testimony 
> Submission"
>
> registering your name, location and email, and selecting the bill you
> wish to comment on:
> Date: February 16, 2023
> Committee: House Executive Departments and Administration
> Choose the hearing time and bill: 1:00 - HB617
> Representing: yourself or others
>
> and post whether you are in favor, opposed or neutral and optionally
> upload or enter text testimony.
>
> Submit, review and post.
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 15, 2023 at 4:58 PM Joshua Judson Rosen
>  wrote:
> >
> > There will be a hearing mid-day tomorrow (Thursday) in Concord
> > regarding House Bill 617-FN, "AN ACT prohibiting, with limited exceptions,
> > state agencies from requiring use of proprietary software in interactions 
> > with the public."
> >
> > Unfortunately I have no transportation tomorrow, but maybe you'd be able to 
> > go and show your support?
> >
> > More details at 
> > 
> >
> > If you were on this list around this time last year, you may remember that 
> > there was a similar bill put forward then,
> > which failed to become law.
> > This version has apparently been trimmed to hopefully give it a better 
> > chance at doing so.
> >
> > --
> > Connect with me on the GNU social network: 
> > 
> > Not on the network? Ask me for an invitation to a social hub!
> > ___
> > gnhlug-discuss mailing list
> > gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org
> > http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
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Re: Let's try this again: 16 February, support software freedom bill HB-617-FN in Concord

[Ted Roche]

If you are unable to testify in person (a much more effective option,
I've been told), you can post your (optional) testimony and/or your
position in favor or against the bill by navigating to:

https://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/

selecting the link labeled, "House Sign-in Form and Online Testimony Submission"

registering your name, location and email, and selecting the bill you
wish to comment on:
Date: February 16, 2023
Committee: House Executive Departments and Administration
Choose the hearing time and bill: 1:00 - HB617
Representing: yourself or others

and post whether you are in favor, opposed or neutral and optionally
upload or enter text testimony.

Submit, review and post.


On Wed, Feb 15, 2023 at 4:58 PM Joshua Judson Rosen
 wrote:
>
> There will be a hearing mid-day tomorrow (Thursday) in Concord
> regarding House Bill 617-FN, "AN ACT prohibiting, with limited exceptions,
> state agencies from requiring use of proprietary software in interactions 
> with the public."
>
> Unfortunately I have no transportation tomorrow, but maybe you'd be able to 
> go and show your support?
>
> More details at 
> 
>
> If you were on this list around this time last year, you may remember that 
> there was a similar bill put forward then,
> which failed to become law.
> This version has apparently been trimmed to hopefully give it a better chance 
> at doing so.
>
> --
> Connect with me on the GNU social network: 
> 
> Not on the network? Ask me for an invitation to a social hub!
> ___
> gnhlug-discuss mailing list
> gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org
> http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
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Re: [GNHLUG] [dlslug-announce] Annual Social at Lebanon Salt Hill Pub -- Jan 5

[Curt Howland]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

On Monday 02 January 2023, Lloyd Kvam was heard to say:
> Salt Hill Pub - Lebanon
> http://www.salthillpub.com/
>
> Thursday, Jan 5, 6-8PM
> RSVP so we can get a table(s) of sufficient size.

Please count me as 1.


- -- 
You may my glories and my state dispose,
But not my griefs; still am I king of those.
 --- William Shakespeare, "Richard II"

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-

iHUEAREIAB0WIQTaYVhJsIalt8scIDa2T1fo1pHhqQUCY7QdBAAKCRC2T1fo1pHh
qSQjAP9l1Ulqos8RDYY2bbx78dLjeRDlZnv/YuIqx9oFa/6NrgD/QrNXAoI7fGZl
w+u6mAaA7v3y5oYC17kSIY3/OLhkv20=
=oKxB
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
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Re: Virtual server host with reasonable mail policies?

[Benjamin Scott]

At 2022 Dec 30 Fri 07:46 PM -0500, Lloyd Kvam  wrote:
> "There are several email service providers (ESP) ...

Thanks anyway, but I don't want to relay mail through someone else.  If I did, 
I could stick with DO and be happy.  My reasons include:

- Budget
- Simplicity
- Visibility into the destination SMTP transaction for reasons of
   - Diagnostics
   - Statistics
   - Personal learning and experience
- Running a mail system for others makes things more interesting
- I don't have to worry about one more provider's machinations
- A desire to be in charge of my own destiny

I am in no way advocating this stance for others.  As I wrote earlier, there's 
something to be said for paying to make it someone else's problem.  But *I* 
don't want to do that.

> Also setting up SPF, DKIM and dmarc seemed to make a difference in the
> reliability of the email delivery.

   Yeah, that's an already-solved problem for me.  There are still big email 
services that use single-decision IP-based blacklists.

-- Ben
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Re: Virtual server host with reasonable mail policies?

[Lloyd Kvam]

On Fri, 2022-12-30 at 17:14 -0500, Benjamin Scott wrote:
> 
> There's also something to be said for paying to make it somebody
> else's problem.  I don't think that's the right solution for me, due
> to reasons including budget, as well as a desire to keep things "in-
> house" so I know what's going on.  Part of the reason I do this is so
> I know how.

https://www.linuxbabe.com/mail-server/postfix-smtp-relay-ubuntu-sendinblue

"There are several email service providers (ESP) that can act as relay
host. Some charge a little fee, some offer free quotas every month. In
this article, I’d like to show you how to use Sendinblue, which is an
email service provider that allows you to send 300 emails per day for
free."

The rest of the piece covers setting up the relay service. I did not
get the authorization working with sendinblue (an old 18.04 Ubuntu
server on digital ocean). I wound up relaying through my home Internet
connection which is far from ideal, but my email volume is tiny.

Also setting up SPF, DKIM and dmarc seemed to make a difference in the
reliability of the email delivery. The dmarc reports also showed
evidence of spoofed emails using my venix.com domain. I think those
spoofed emails are now reliably reported as spam.

I'm not sure if sendinblue is a reasonable solution for you.

-- 
Lloyd Kvam
5 Foliage View
Lebanon, NH 03766
802-448-0836


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Re: Virtual server host with reasonable mail policies?

[Ken D'Ambrosio]

On 2022-12-30 16:37, Benjamin Scott wrote:

> FWIW, my DO VM can initiate TCP to 25 outbound on both IPv4 and IPv6.
> It is likely grandfathered, however.  They have a somewhat
> vaguely-defined blocking policy:
> 
> https://docs.digitalocean.com/support/why-is-smtp-blocked/

O... nice to know.  Last time I'd checked -- when IPv6 suddenly was 
blocking my outbound -- it was an intentional block, with no intention 
to remove it.  I guess times have changed.  (The rationale was that, 
apparently, RBLs were blocking entire v6 subnets, so rather than maybe 
not be able to send email, they'd save everyone the unpleasantness of 
uncertainty, and simply block it entirely.)

> FYI, this was fixed in Postfix at some point.  I don't recall when.

Good deal.

> There seems to be an increasing trend of DO having their
> ASNs/netblocks ending up on blacklists.  Allegedly (according to the
> blacklists) this is because DO doesn't police their customers closely
> enough and/or respond to abuse reports in a good fashion.

Huh.  I did have to bounce the first IP I got some six(?) years ago, but 
been smooth sailing since.  However, it's good to know it's not a DO 
priority.  I'll keep my eyes open for bounced/bitbucketed e-mails.  
Indeed, right now, I'm waiting on a reply to an e-mail I sent to a guy 
who's usually really quick with replies.  But it's also a holiday, 
basically, so I'm not getting exercise jumping to conclusions.

> They also have an official position of very strongly discouraging
> running email within their systems:

Boo!  Hiss!

-Ken
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Re: Virtual server host with reasonable mail policies?

[Ken D'Ambrosio]

On 2022-12-30 17:04, Ted Roche wrote:
> MS escalation and delisting is useless. I've had to hop IP addresses a
> couple of times (which Linode support is awesome about!) but it's a
> hassle. At this point, I don't want to abandon Linode after 15 years
> of sterling service, but I may have to route outgoing email through
> yet another (paid) service to get the mail delivered.

I had this same problem with DO.  I actually have not one, but _two_ VMs 
"out there," DO for $5/mo., and this other one -- I honestly don't even 
remember the vendor, but I can look if anyone's interested -- for 
something like 20 Euros a quarter or something.  It's a relatively 
unknown vendor, I think, but the box is in Canada, so my latency isn't 
horrible, and it's got a big disk, so I can store stuffs there (e.g., my 
~35 year-old mailbox is beginning to approach even the generous 25 GB on 
DO).  It does my primary job -- secondary DNS -- just fine, as well as a 
few other things, but ALSO, by dint of, presumably, being relatively 
unknown, is where I've had Postfix route my MS-bound e-mail.  It Just 
Works(tm).  Assuming static IPs, I'd happily relay for either/both of 
you, if you're interested.
And, yeah -- there are exactly zero guarantees that MS won't start 
rejecting e-mail from that host tomorrow, but so far, it's been ~5 
years, and working fine.  [Sidebar: I _think_ it's working fine.  It's 
been a while since I've had need to mail an 
MS/outlook.com/hotmail.com/etc. address.]

-Ken
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Re: Virtual server host with reasonable mail policies?

[Benjamin Scott]

At 2022 Dec 30 Fri 05:04 PM -0500, Ted Roche  wrote:
>I've been adminning a couple of boxes on Linode for years ...

Thanks for the detail, that's good info.

>Love 'em for ops and support, but email might not be the right platform.

The problems you describe are somewhat endemic to running any mail system, and 
far more common on the VM hosts (since they, by design, make it so easy to 
build new VMs and tear them down).  I'm willing to do the work if a provider is 
OK with the concept in the first place.

There's also something to be said for paying to make it somebody else's 
problem.  I don't think that's the right solution for me, due to reasons 
including budget, as well as a desire to keep things "in-house" so I know 
what's going on.  Part of the reason I do this is so I know how.

-- Ben
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Re: Virtual server host with reasonable mail policies?

[Ted Roche]

I've been adminning a couple of boxes on Linode for years, and while
I'm generally not skilled enough to run my own mail server, some of
the client apps need send-only capability (SMTP out, not POP/IMAP in).
Linode has been great for that, but some of the receiving ISPs
(*cough**cough* Microsoft and Hotmail *cough*) have taken to blocking
entire IP ranges on Linode because of a few bad spammers. MS
escalation and delisting is useless. I've had to hop IP addresses a
couple of times (which Linode support is awesome about!) but it's a
hassle. At this point, I don't want to abandon Linode after 15 years
of sterling service, but I may have to route outgoing email through
yet another (paid) service to get the mail delivered.

As for hardware and support, nearly all downtime in the past 15 years
has been pre-planned and notified maintenance weeks in advance. (Once,
a machine failed imminently and I was migrated and up and running on a
new box very quickly.) Tickets submitted have been answered promptly.

Love 'em for ops and support, but email might not be the right platform.

On Fri, Dec 30, 2022 at 2:33 PM Benjamin Scott  wrote:
>
> Hi everybody!
>
> Can anyone recommend a VPS/VM host that understands people might want to use 
> email?  (VPS=Virtual Private Server, VM=Virtual Machine)
>
> I (and GNHLUG) have been with Digital Ocean for several years now, and 
> they've generally been good, but their attitude towards email has devolved to 
> "Go away" and that doesn't meet my/our needs.
>
> I'm not looking for someone to hold me hand or run a relay for me.  As long 
> as they (1) allow use of mail service ports, (2) don't tell me I don't want 
> to run email, and (3) respond to abuse reports against their other customers, 
> I'm good.
>
> Linode, for example, blocks mail ports by default, but provides a 
> reasonable-sounding procedure to get them unblocked, and claims to care about 
> mail abuse.  But that's one provider of many; I'd like to hear if others have 
> experience.
>
> I/we need to be able to:
> - Receive email directly (run an SMTP listener on TCP port 25)
> - Send email directly (initiate outbound connections to TCP port 25)
> - Run a web server (HTTP/SSL listener on TCP ports 80 and 443)
> - Run an SSH listener on a non-standard port (remote access)
> - Run a DNS server on UDP and TCP port 53 (authoritative name server)
> - Install and run arbitrary Linux software
> - Fairly low volume for all traffic (mail, DNS, web, IP)
> - Fairly low CPU, disk, and RAM usage
> - Hand-holding software like "CPanel" is actively unwanted
>
> All I/we want the provider to do is:
> - Provide some kind of UI for low-level VM maintenance
>- Installation of operating system (canned images are fine)
>- Recovery of OS when SSH can't be used
> - Make sure the VM doesn't go down due to power or hardware fault
> - Make sure IP traffic keeps flowing
> - Respond to abuse reports to keep reputation at least somewhat OK
>
> -- Ben
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Re: Virtual server host with reasonable mail policies?

[Benjamin Scott]

At 2022 Dec 30 Fri 03:06 PM -0500, Ken D'Ambrosio  wrote:
>> - Send email directly (initiate outbound connections to TCP port 25)
>
> NOT IPv6 -- which is annoying AF.

FWIW, my DO VM can initiate TCP to 25 outbound on both IPv4 and IPv6.  It is 
likely grandfathered, however.  They have a somewhat vaguely-defined blocking 
policy:

https://docs.digitalocean.com/support/why-is-smtp-blocked/

> if you have both enabled, and are using (at least) Postfix, IPv6 apparently
> gets the ball, first, and will block _all_ outbound e-mail until disabled.

FYI, this was fixed in Postfix at some point.  I don't recall when.

>> - Hand-holding software like "CPanel" is actively unwanted
>
> Not there (I don't think) unless you want it.

FWIW: AFAIK, the traditional DO VM just has whatever the distribution provides, 
so unless you "{dnf,apt} install cpanel", you won't get it.  More recently 
they've apparently bought/merged/partnered with an entity called "Cloudways", 
which I gather from the banner ad is more like a managed do-it-for-you host, 
which likely has such things.

>> - Make sure IP traffic keeps flowing
>
>??  Not sure what you're looking for, here.

The network shouldn't go down a lot.

>> - Respond to abuse reports to keep reputation at least somewhat OK
>
> I generally go and do my own reputation maintenance by talking to RBLs
> directly.  Are there providers that do that for you??

That's not what I mean.

There seems to be an increasing trend of DO having their ASNs/netblocks ending 
up on blacklists.  Allegedly (according to the blacklists) this is because DO 
doesn't police their customers closely enough and/or respond to abuse reports 
in a good fashion.

They also have an official position of very strongly discouraging running email 
within their systems:

https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/why-you-may-not-want-to-run-your-own-mail-server

There are also unofficial sources that corroborate my interpretation, e.g. from 
someone's support ticket:

>>> DigitalOcean is not a dedicated email host and does not have a postmaster 
>>> to maintain our IP reputation. As a result, some DigitalOcean IP ranges are 
>>> blacklisted. We do not recommend sending mail from our platform directly 
>>> and we will not request delisting.

https://www.digitalocean.com/community/questions/how-to-removed-my-ip-as-blacklisted-in-uceprotectl3-spam?comment=145886

Now, reputation/blacklist systems are unreliable at best, and something of a 
racket at worst, but given that DO's official policy is "you shouldn't do this 
in the first place, and we'll block you if you try", I don't see any point in 
trying to defend them on this aspect.  They clearly don't want it.

If one isn't trying to run a mail system, it's a non-issue, and DO would be 
fine.  But since I *am* trying to run a mail system, the fact that they have 
been very good otherwise doesn't really matter.

-- Ben
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Re: Virtual server host with reasonable mail policies?

[Ken D'Ambrosio]

On 2022-12-30 14:33, Benjamin Scott wrote:
> Hi everybody!

Hi back!  I have a DO node, ad... well, it does most all that you 
mentioned.  I'll respond to particulars in-line.

> - Receive email directly (run an SMTP listener on TCP port 25)
Yes.
> - Send email directly (initiate outbound connections to TCP port 25)
NOT IPv6 -- which is annoying AF.  But IPv4 works fine.  NOTE: if you 
have both enabled, and are using (at least) Postfix, IPv6 apparently 
gets the ball, first, and will block _all_ outbound e-mail until 
disabled.  See again: annoying AF.
> - Run a web server (HTTP/SSL listener on TCP ports 80 and 443)
Yes.
> - Run an SSH listener on a non-standard port (remote access)
Yes.
> - Run a DNS server on UDP and TCP port 53 (authoritative name server)
Yes.
> - Install and run arbitrary Linux software
Yes.
> - Fairly low CPU, disk, and RAM usage
They've "recently" -- the past few years -- bumped their $5/mo. VM to 1 
GB.  25 GB of disk, and one vCPU.  Note that it's been a while since I 
set up my current VM, so these may have changed.
> - Hand-holding software like "CPanel" is actively unwanted
Not there (I don't think) unless you want it.

> All I/we want the provider to do is:
> - Provide some kind of UI for low-level VM maintenance
Yes.
>- Installation of operating system (canned images are fine)
Yes.
>- Recovery of OS when SSH can't be used
Yes.
> - Make sure the VM doesn't go down due to power or hardware fault
Haven't _had_ it go down, ever, except I think twice: once for a 
proactive remediation against one of the nastier attacks, and once for 
proactive migration because some storage was failing.
> - Make sure IP traffic keeps flowing
??  Not sure what you're looking for, here.
> - Respond to abuse reports to keep reputation at least somewhat OK
I generally go and do my own reputation maintenance by talking to RBLs 
directly.  Are there providers that do that for you??

-Ken
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Re: Virtual server host with reasonable mail policies?

[mikebw]

I started running my own e-mail servers in the days when there was no 
other way to have e-mail. I used to consult for ISP and co-location 
companies who let me install my own hardware in their racks, but I 
transitioned out of that in 2009.

For over a decade, I've done all of this with BuyVM — 
https://buyvm.net/kvm-dedicated-server-slices/ — on a dedicated KVM 
slice running Debian. I pay $10 per month, but that's a grandfathered 
plan; they have current shared-CPU plans starting at $2 per month and 
dedicated-CPU plans starting at $15 per month.

I've been very happy with ServaRICA — https://servarica.com/all-offers/ 
— and have their "Horse" plan (3TB storage for $10 per month), but have 
not run a mail server there although I'm fairly sure they allow it.

Many independent vendors offer excellent deals on Low End Box — 
https://lowendbox.com/ — and most would allow e-mail.

If your budget is in the $100-200 per month range, we've had superb 
corporate service from In Motion Hosting — 
https://www.inmotionhosting.com/dedicated-servers — but that involves 
serious mission-critical commitments to a public-facing WordPress host, 
as well as e-mail, and live 24x7 support.

-- Mike


On 12/30/22 14:33, Benjamin Scott wrote:
> Hi everybody!
>
> Can anyone recommend a VPS/VM host that understands people might want to use 
> email?  (VPS=Virtual Private Server, VM=Virtual Machine)
>
> I (and GNHLUG) have been with Digital Ocean for several years now, and 
> they've generally been good, but their attitude towards email has devolved to 
> "Go away" and that doesn't meet my/our needs.
>
> I'm not looking for someone to hold me hand or run a relay for me.  As long 
> as they (1) allow use of mail service ports, (2) don't tell me I don't want 
> to run email, and (3) respond to abuse reports against their other customers, 
> I'm good.
>
> Linode, for example, blocks mail ports by default, but provides a 
> reasonable-sounding procedure to get them unblocked, and claims to care about 
> mail abuse.  But that's one provider of many; I'd like to hear if others have 
> experience.
>
> I/we need to be able to:
> - Receive email directly (run an SMTP listener on TCP port 25)
> - Send email directly (initiate outbound connections to TCP port 25)
> - Run a web server (HTTP/SSL listener on TCP ports 80 and 443)
> - Run an SSH listener on a non-standard port (remote access)
> - Run a DNS server on UDP and TCP port 53 (authoritative name server)
> - Install and run arbitrary Linux software
> - Fairly low volume for all traffic (mail, DNS, web, IP)
> - Fairly low CPU, disk, and RAM usage
> - Hand-holding software like "CPanel" is actively unwanted
>
> All I/we want the provider to do is:
> - Provide some kind of UI for low-level VM maintenance
> - Installation of operating system (canned images are fine)
> - Recovery of OS when SSH can't be used
> - Make sure the VM doesn't go down due to power or hardware fault
> - Make sure IP traffic keeps flowing
> - Respond to abuse reports to keep reputation at least somewhat OK
>
> -- Ben
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Re: Book or online source on modern Linux system files and organization

[Tom Buskey]

XFCE has a GUI settings program I use.  Gnome-shell (Fedora's native GUI)
has stuff too.

I think most Linux desktops are self administered & the GUI is ok.  I
imagine there are few IT departments managing many (> 50) Linux desktops
like in the days of Unix workstations.

On Thu, Dec 22, 2022 at 3:04 PM Shawn O'Shea  wrote:

> A lot of stuff in the UI these days is controlled from the UI (of course
> there are also command line tools and such as well). Is there a keyboard or
> input settings panel? Pop is based on GNOME, so you may also want to
> install GNOME tweaks and look at the settings in there.
>
> -Shawn
>
> On Thu, Dec 22, 2022 at 11:52 AM bruce.lab...@myfairpoint.net <
> bruce.lab...@myfairpoint.net> wrote:
>
>> This is awesome stuff.  Thanks!  That Arch Linux link is great.  Gives me
>> some decent reading, and may lead to an answer.  I suspect that the mapping
>> is pointing to the wrong file.
>>
>> Picked up a thumb drive, so have a couple of things to try, and new stuff
>> to read.
>>
>> I'll make a USB boot drive and at least check that out first.
>>
>> Get BlueMail for Android 
>> On Dec 22, 2022, at 11:03 AM, Tom Buskey  wrote:
>>>
>>> +1 on the hardware if the keys don't work with the USB keyboard removed.
>>> FWIW, the old Gateway anykey keyboards could remap keys internally.
>>> They stayed mapped even if you plugged it into another system.  I had to
>>> learn how to reset them to default.
>>>
>>> After that, Arch linux has a great wiki that applies to many linuxen
>>> https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Linux_console/Keyboard_configuration
>>> a
>>> nd
>>> look for layout,
>>>
>>> I use Fedora with xfce and use both keyboards.  I have my laptop
>>> vertical to use its screen w/ my desktop setup.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 21, 2022 at 7:33 PM Malcolm S < malcolm.schonga...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
 If your normal key sequence to get into the BIOS boot menu doesn't even
 work, that sounds pretty conclusively like a hardware issue to me.  Is it
 difficult to swap out the keyboard, in this laptop?

 On Wed, Dec 21, 2022, 19:24 bruce.lab...@myfairpoint.net <
 bruce.lab...@myfairpoint.net> wrote:

> Just need to go to a store to pick one up.  Yes, I remember using
> Knoppix CD'S for checking and sometimes repairing Windows problems, never
> had to do that for Linux.
>
> Once I get a thumb drive, I can try a couple of things, including
> making a live disk or two.
>
> Laptop is only a few years old, so it's not quite a fossil yet.
> Getting there though.
>
>
>
> Get BlueMail for Android 
> On Dec 21, 2022, at 7:11 PM, Jim McGinness < jmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> For sufficiently old fossils, it might be easier to boot from a live
>> CD, if thumb drives aren't laying around already.
>>
>> Distinguishing between a failed keyboard and a software
>> misconfiguration can be helped by seeing the keyboard is not failed under
>> different software. Knoppix distributions (at least in the past) had a
>> reputation for being very good at autoconfiguring a wide variety of
>> hardware. But if System 76 laptops are sufficiently specialized, it's
>> possible no other OS will be happy with them.
>>
>> Should I assume you're already aware of this page? -
>> https://support.system76.com/articles/pop-live-disk/
>>
>>  -- jmcg
>>
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>>
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Re: Book or online source on modern Linux system files and organization

[Shawn O'Shea]

A lot of stuff in the UI these days is controlled from the UI (of course
there are also command line tools and such as well). Is there a keyboard or
input settings panel? Pop is based on GNOME, so you may also want to
install GNOME tweaks and look at the settings in there.

-Shawn

On Thu, Dec 22, 2022 at 11:52 AM bruce.lab...@myfairpoint.net <
bruce.lab...@myfairpoint.net> wrote:

> This is awesome stuff.  Thanks!  That Arch Linux link is great.  Gives me
> some decent reading, and may lead to an answer.  I suspect that the mapping
> is pointing to the wrong file.
>
> Picked up a thumb drive, so have a couple of things to try, and new stuff
> to read.
>
> I'll make a USB boot drive and at least check that out first.
>
> Get BlueMail for Android 
> On Dec 22, 2022, at 11:03 AM, Tom Buskey  wrote:
>>
>> +1 on the hardware if the keys don't work with the USB keyboard removed.
>> FWIW, the old Gateway anykey keyboards could remap keys internally.  They
>> stayed mapped even if you plugged it into another system.  I had to learn
>> how to reset them to default.
>>
>> After that, Arch linux has a great wiki that applies to many linuxen
>> https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Linux_console/Keyboard_configuration
>> a nd
>> look for layout,
>>
>> I use Fedora with xfce and use both keyboards.  I have my laptop vertical
>> to use its screen w/ my desktop setup.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 21, 2022 at 7:33 PM Malcolm S < malcolm.schonga...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> If your normal key sequence to get into the BIOS boot menu doesn't even
>>> work, that sounds pretty conclusively like a hardware issue to me.  Is it
>>> difficult to swap out the keyboard, in this laptop?
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 21, 2022, 19:24 bruce.lab...@myfairpoint.net <
>>> bruce.lab...@myfairpoint.net> wrote:
>>>
 Just need to go to a store to pick one up.  Yes, I remember using
 Knoppix CD'S for checking and sometimes repairing Windows problems, never
 had to do that for Linux.

 Once I get a thumb drive, I can try a couple of things, including
 making a live disk or two.

 Laptop is only a few years old, so it's not quite a fossil yet.
 Getting there though.



 Get BlueMail for Android 
 On Dec 21, 2022, at 7:11 PM, Jim McGinness < jmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> For sufficiently old fossils, it might be easier to boot from a live
> CD, if thumb drives aren't laying around already.
>
> Distinguishing between a failed keyboard and a software
> misconfiguration can be helped by seeing the keyboard is not failed under
> different software. Knoppix distributions (at least in the past) had a
> reputation for being very good at autoconfiguring a wide variety of
> hardware. But if System 76 laptops are sufficiently specialized, it's
> possible no other OS will be happy with them.
>
> Should I assume you're already aware of this page? -
> https://support.system76.com/articles/pop-live-disk/
>
>  -- jmcg
>
 ___
 gnhlug-discuss mailing list
 gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org
 http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/

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>>>
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Re: Book or online source on modern Linux system files and organization

[bruce.lab...@myfairpoint.net]

This is awesome stuff.  Thanks!  That Arch Linux link is great.  Gives me some 
decent reading, and may lead to an answer.  I suspect that the mapping is 
pointing to the wrong file.

Picked up a thumb drive, so have a couple of things to try, and new stuff to 
read.

I'll make a USB boot drive and at least check that out first.

⁣Get BlueMail for Android ​

On Dec 22, 2022, 11:03 AM, at 11:03 AM, Tom Buskey  wrote:
>+1 on the hardware if the keys don't work with the USB keyboard
>removed.
>FWIW, the old Gateway anykey keyboards could remap keys internally.
>They
>stayed mapped even if you plugged it into another system.  I had to
>learn
>how to reset them to default.
>
>After that, Arch linux has a great wiki that applies to many linuxen
>https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Linux_console/Keyboard_configuration
>a
>nd
>look for layout,
>
>I use Fedora with xfce and use both keyboards.  I have my laptop
>vertical
>to use its screen w/ my desktop setup.
>
>
>On Wed, Dec 21, 2022 at 7:33 PM Malcolm S
>
>wrote:
>
>> If your normal key sequence to get into the BIOS boot menu doesn't
>even
>> work, that sounds pretty conclusively like a hardware issue to me.
>Is it
>> difficult to swap out the keyboard, in this laptop?
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 21, 2022, 19:24 bruce.lab...@myfairpoint.net <
>> bruce.lab...@myfairpoint.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Just need to go to a store to pick one up.  Yes, I remember using
>Knoppix
>>> CD'S for checking and sometimes repairing Windows problems, never
>had to do
>>> that for Linux.
>>>
>>> Once I get a thumb drive, I can try a couple of things, including
>making
>>> a live disk or two.
>>>
>>> Laptop is only a few years old, so it's not quite a fossil yet.
>Getting
>>> there though.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Get BlueMail for Android 
>>> On Dec 21, 2022, at 7:11 PM, Jim McGinness  wrote:

 For sufficiently old fossils, it might be easier to boot from a
>live CD,
 if thumb drives aren't laying around already.

 Distinguishing between a failed keyboard and a software
>misconfiguration
 can be helped by seeing the keyboard is not failed under different
 software. Knoppix distributions (at least in the past) had a
>reputation for
 being very good at autoconfiguring a wide variety of hardware. But
>if
 System 76 laptops are sufficiently specialized, it's possible no
>other OS
 will be happy with them.

 Should I assume you're already aware of this page? -
 https://support.system76.com/articles/pop-live-disk/

  -- jmcg

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>>>
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Re: Book or online source on modern Linux system files and organization

[Tom Buskey]

+1 on the hardware if the keys don't work with the USB keyboard removed.
FWIW, the old Gateway anykey keyboards could remap keys internally.  They
stayed mapped even if you plugged it into another system.  I had to learn
how to reset them to default.

After that, Arch linux has a great wiki that applies to many linuxen
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Linux_console/Keyboard_configuration
a nd
look for layout,

I use Fedora with xfce and use both keyboards.  I have my laptop vertical
to use its screen w/ my desktop setup.


On Wed, Dec 21, 2022 at 7:33 PM Malcolm S 
wrote:

> If your normal key sequence to get into the BIOS boot menu doesn't even
> work, that sounds pretty conclusively like a hardware issue to me.  Is it
> difficult to swap out the keyboard, in this laptop?
>
> On Wed, Dec 21, 2022, 19:24 bruce.lab...@myfairpoint.net <
> bruce.lab...@myfairpoint.net> wrote:
>
>> Just need to go to a store to pick one up.  Yes, I remember using Knoppix
>> CD'S for checking and sometimes repairing Windows problems, never had to do
>> that for Linux.
>>
>> Once I get a thumb drive, I can try a couple of things, including making
>> a live disk or two.
>>
>> Laptop is only a few years old, so it's not quite a fossil yet.  Getting
>> there though.
>>
>>
>>
>> Get BlueMail for Android 
>> On Dec 21, 2022, at 7:11 PM, Jim McGinness  wrote:
>>>
>>> For sufficiently old fossils, it might be easier to boot from a live CD,
>>> if thumb drives aren't laying around already.
>>>
>>> Distinguishing between a failed keyboard and a software misconfiguration
>>> can be helped by seeing the keyboard is not failed under different
>>> software. Knoppix distributions (at least in the past) had a reputation for
>>> being very good at autoconfiguring a wide variety of hardware. But if
>>> System 76 laptops are sufficiently specialized, it's possible no other OS
>>> will be happy with them.
>>>
>>> Should I assume you're already aware of this page? -
>>> https://support.system76.com/articles/pop-live-disk/
>>>
>>>  -- jmcg
>>>
>> ___
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>>
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Re: Book or online source on modern Linux system files and organization

[Malcolm S]

If your normal key sequence to get into the BIOS boot menu doesn't even
work, that sounds pretty conclusively like a hardware issue to me.  Is it
difficult to swap out the keyboard, in this laptop?

On Wed, Dec 21, 2022, 19:24 bruce.lab...@myfairpoint.net <
bruce.lab...@myfairpoint.net> wrote:

> Just need to go to a store to pick one up.  Yes, I remember using Knoppix
> CD'S for checking and sometimes repairing Windows problems, never had to do
> that for Linux.
>
> Once I get a thumb drive, I can try a couple of things, including making a
> live disk or two.
>
> Laptop is only a few years old, so it's not quite a fossil yet.  Getting
> there though.
>
>
>
> Get BlueMail for Android 
> On Dec 21, 2022, at 7:11 PM, Jim McGinness  wrote:
>>
>> For sufficiently old fossils, it might be easier to boot from a live CD,
>> if thumb drives aren't laying around already.
>>
>> Distinguishing between a failed keyboard and a software misconfiguration
>> can be helped by seeing the keyboard is not failed under different
>> software. Knoppix distributions (at least in the past) had a reputation for
>> being very good at autoconfiguring a wide variety of hardware. But if
>> System 76 laptops are sufficiently specialized, it's possible no other OS
>> will be happy with them.
>>
>> Should I assume you're already aware of this page? -
>> https://support.system76.com/articles/pop-live-disk/
>>
>>  -- jmcg
>>
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Re: Book or online source on modern Linux system files and organization

[bruce.lab...@myfairpoint.net]

Just need to go to a store to pick one up.  Yes, I remember using Knoppix CD'S 
for checking and sometimes repairing Windows problems, never had to do that for 
Linux. 

Once I get a thumb drive, I can try a couple of things, including making a live 
disk or two.

Laptop is only a few years old, so it's not quite a fossil yet.  Getting there 
though.



⁣Get BlueMail for Android ​

On Dec 21, 2022, 7:11 PM, at 7:11 PM, Jim McGinness  wrote:
>For sufficiently old fossils, it might be easier to boot from a live
>CD, if
>thumb drives aren't laying around already.
>
>Distinguishing between a failed keyboard and a software
>misconfiguration
>can be helped by seeing the keyboard is not failed under different
>software. Knoppix distributions (at least in the past) had a reputation
>for
>being very good at autoconfiguring a wide variety of hardware. But if
>System 76 laptops are sufficiently specialized, it's possible no other
>OS
>will be happy with them.
>
>Should I assume you're already aware of this page? -
>https://support.system76.com/articles/pop-live-disk/
>
> -- jmcg
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Re: Book or online source on modern Linux system files and organization

[Jim McGinness]

For sufficiently old fossils, it might be easier to boot from a live CD, if
thumb drives aren't laying around already.

Distinguishing between a failed keyboard and a software misconfiguration
can be helped by seeing the keyboard is not failed under different
software. Knoppix distributions (at least in the past) had a reputation for
being very good at autoconfiguring a wide variety of hardware. But if
System 76 laptops are sufficiently specialized, it's possible no other OS
will be happy with them.

Should I assume you're already aware of this page? -
https://support.system76.com/articles/pop-live-disk/

 -- jmcg
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Re: Book or online source on modern Linux system files and organization

[Malcolm S]

Sounds like a lot of these symptoms could be explained by a failed keyboard.

On Wed, Dec 21, 2022, 16:40 bruce.lab...@myfairpoint.net <
bruce.lab...@myfairpoint.net> wrote:

> NumLock doesn't seem to matter.  I can't type the letter b, or use a space.
>
> Can't get into BIOS because ESC key doesn't work, at least with laptop
> keyboard.
>
> /etc/default/keyboard states
> XKBLAYOUT=us
> BACKSPACE=guess
>
> Nothing about how many keys.  I have 102 keys on the laptop.  The Logitech
> has more keys.
>
> Get BlueMail for Android 
> On Dec 21, 2022, at 4:16 PM, Ken D'Ambrosio  wrote:
>>
>> On 2022-12-21 15:32, bruce.lab...@myfairpoint.net wrote:
>>
>>
>> My laptop keyboard works, at least many of the keys, but some don't.
>>
>>
>> I would wonder if this could mean your numlock is on -- either on your
>> external keyboard, or your internal.  Either way, I've seen numlock on
>> laptops turn the right-hand side of the keyboard into a number pad, which
>> can be really annoying to figure out.  (This irrespective of OS.)
>>
>> -Ken
>>
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Re: Book or online source on modern Linux system files and organization

[bruce.lab...@myfairpoint.net]

14 laptop keys are inop.  All others work and are mapped correctly.  I used 
their English (US) keyboard.  They show keys that are not on my laptop and the 
layout is not even close to my laptop keyboard.

There's no gconf on my system.  That's more keys than I thought.  Could be a 
connector, I suppose.

Typed $ xinput
Under virtual core keyboard I have AT Translated Set 2 keyboard.  ID=15, slave 
keyboard (3)

Finally a clue.  How to change to a different set?  Could be it's on an 
alternate set?

⁣Get BlueMail for Android ​

On Dec 21, 2022, 4:41 PM, at 4:41 PM, "bruce.lab...@myfairpoint.net" 
 wrote:
>NumLock doesn't seem to matter.  I can't type the letter b, or use a
>space.
>
>Can't get into BIOS because ESC key doesn't work, at least with laptop
>keyboard. 
>
>/etc/default/keyboard states
>XKBLAYOUT=us
>BACKSPACE=guess
>
>Nothing about how many keys.  I have 102 keys on the laptop.  The
>Logitech has more keys.
>
>⁣Get BlueMail for Android ​
>
>On Dec 21, 2022, 4:16 PM, at 4:16 PM, Ken D'Ambrosio 
>wrote:
>>On 2022-12-21 15:32, bruce.lab...@myfairpoint.net wrote:
>>
>>> My laptop keyboard works, at least many of the keys, but some don't.
>>
>>I would wonder if this could mean your numlock is on -- either on your
>>external keyboard, or your internal.  Either way, I've seen numlock on
>>laptops turn the right-hand side of the keyboard into a number pad,
>>which can be really annoying to figure out.  (This irrespective of
>OS.)
>>
>>-Ken
>
>
>
>
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Re: Book or online source on modern Linux system files and organization

[bruce.lab...@myfairpoint.net]

NumLock doesn't seem to matter.  I can't type the letter b, or use a space.

Can't get into BIOS because ESC key doesn't work, at least with laptop 
keyboard. 

/etc/default/keyboard states
XKBLAYOUT=us
BACKSPACE=guess

Nothing about how many keys.  I have 102 keys on the laptop.  The Logitech has 
more keys.

⁣Get BlueMail for Android ​

On Dec 21, 2022, 4:16 PM, at 4:16 PM, Ken D'Ambrosio  wrote:
>On 2022-12-21 15:32, bruce.lab...@myfairpoint.net wrote:
>
>> My laptop keyboard works, at least many of the keys, but some don't.
>
>I would wonder if this could mean your numlock is on -- either on your
>external keyboard, or your internal.  Either way, I've seen numlock on
>laptops turn the right-hand side of the keyboard into a number pad,
>which can be really annoying to figure out.  (This irrespective of OS.)
>
>-Ken
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Re: Book or online source on modern Linux system files and organization

[Ken D'Ambrosio]

On 2022-12-21 15:32, bruce.lab...@myfairpoint.net wrote:


My laptop keyboard works, at least many of the keys, but some don't.


I would wonder if this could mean your numlock is on -- either on your 
external keyboard, or your internal.  Either way, I've seen numlock on 
laptops turn the right-hand side of the keyboard into a number pad, 
which can be really annoying to figure out.  (This irrespective of OS.)


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Re: Book or online source on modern Linux system files and organization

[bruce.lab...@myfairpoint.net]

Good idea.  I'll have to get a thumb drive to try it out.

I think my fatal mistake was installing pop-os while my Logitech keyboard was 
installed.  It thinks it's the default keyboard, not the laptop keyboard.  At 
home, I always have a wireless mouse & keyboard set-up.  Going on the road, I 
don't want to carry that stuff.  I just don't seem to know where or how to find 
the appropriate configuration files anymore.  X11 files are basically empty.  
Basically haven't kept up with the more modern setups.  Systemd et. al.

My laptop keyboard works, at least many of the keys, but some don't.  Has to be 
a mapping thing.  The Logitech unifying receiver was unplugged but it is still 
using a Logitech keyboard mapping on my native keyboard.  Some letters don't 
type at all, others type some other character.  Some letters won't capitalize, 
but others do.  Of course you know that some of those characters are in my 
password, so it's annoying as all get out.

The System 76 keyboard program thinks I have a Logitech keyboard attached but 
it isn't.  I see no place to select your actual keyboard with X number of keys 
anymore.  Like 105 keys. This has been hidden from the user.  I don't like this 
at all.  I don't know where the capability is currently located.

Picking keyboards used to be relatively easy.  I realize this is making me 
sound even older, but, hey I am older, and with some luck I will continue to 
get older.

I'm just hoping that changing the default keyboard hasn't been removed.  So if 
someone knows where the heck a simple human readable keyboard config file is, 
please point me in the right direction, or tell me it isn't possible.  This 
stuff should be easy, if it isn't then something is truly wrong... 

⁣Get BlueMail for Android ​

On Dec 21, 2022, 2:21 PM, at 2:21 PM, Jim McGinness  wrote:
>Fossil here, too. I sympathize.
>
>I'm not sure what exact problem you are experiencing, but one way to
>start
>to get a handle on it is to create a USB thumb drive with a "live"
>version
>of one or more other Linux distributions and try booting to it to see
>whether they get a reasonable keyboard configuration out-of-the-box.
>
>I have an old netbook where I mangled the keyboard connector, so it has
>to
>have an external keyboard to do anything.
>
>And there's also this possibility:
>https://github.com/pop-os/keyboard-configurator
>
> -- jmcg
>
>On Wed, Dec 21, 2022 at 1:21 PM Bruce Labitt
>
>wrote:
>
>> Feeling like a bit of a fossil and not knowing what files do what, or
>> where things are located.  Need to fix an obnoxious problem with a
>> keyboard and realize I just don't know even how to investigate this
>> anymore.  What are recommended sources for a modern overview of
>system
>> files, purposes and organization?
>>
>> Think my laptop now believes my Logitech keyboard is the default
>> keyboard.  This is bad, because it has a different number of keys and
>> the mapping is different.  This a royal pia.  I am typing with a
>mouse.
>> Even the space bar doesn't work.  Practically it makes a laptop into
>a
>> desktop system.  I don't even know where to start since a lot of the
>> Linux cheese moved, in the past 10 years.
>>
>> System76 Oryx 6 Pro laptop.  POPOS 22.04.
>>
>> Any tips or pointers to well written overviews on the modern
>> organization would be appreciated.  Perhaps I could learn enough to
>at
>> least know the correct search terms.
>>
>> TIA, Bruce
>>
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Re: Book or online source on modern Linux system files and organization

[Jim McGinness]

Fossil here, too. I sympathize.

I'm not sure what exact problem you are experiencing, but one way to start
to get a handle on it is to create a USB thumb drive with a "live" version
of one or more other Linux distributions and try booting to it to see
whether they get a reasonable keyboard configuration out-of-the-box.

I have an old netbook where I mangled the keyboard connector, so it has to
have an external keyboard to do anything.

And there's also this possibility:
https://github.com/pop-os/keyboard-configurator

 -- jmcg

On Wed, Dec 21, 2022 at 1:21 PM Bruce Labitt 
wrote:

> Feeling like a bit of a fossil and not knowing what files do what, or
> where things are located.  Need to fix an obnoxious problem with a
> keyboard and realize I just don't know even how to investigate this
> anymore.  What are recommended sources for a modern overview of system
> files, purposes and organization?
>
> Think my laptop now believes my Logitech keyboard is the default
> keyboard.  This is bad, because it has a different number of keys and
> the mapping is different.  This a royal pia.  I am typing with a mouse.
> Even the space bar doesn't work.  Practically it makes a laptop into a
> desktop system.  I don't even know where to start since a lot of the
> Linux cheese moved, in the past 10 years.
>
> System76 Oryx 6 Pro laptop.  POPOS 22.04.
>
> Any tips or pointers to well written overviews on the modern
> organization would be appreciated.  Perhaps I could learn enough to at
> least know the correct search terms.
>
> TIA, Bruce
>
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Re: CRM?

[Joel Burtram]

We use KnowledgeOwl and Atlassian Confluence.for our dev/product
documentation, wiki and knowledge base.
Confluence is easily integrated with Jira if they currently use Jira for
software development.
KnowledgeOwl is good at publishing docs for public or private consumption.
Neither is OpenSource but they are convenient and easy to use.

I hate to mention it because I loathe MS Sharepoint with much passion -but-
SP is probably a quick solution if they already pay for O365.

Regards,
-- Joel


On Mon, Nov 28, 2022 at 10:34 AM jsf  wrote:

> Hubspot? zohoCRM?   just a couple of reccos.
>
> Good luck!
>
> J.
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 28, 2022 at 10:32 AM Ken D'Ambrosio  wrote:
>
>> Hey, all.  My wife's taken a new(ish) job, and is the tech pubs manager
>> at a company in upstate NY.  (She's 100% WFH with occasional visits to
>> company offices.)  And they really need a way that "customers" -- both
>> internal and for-real paying customers -- can interact with their
>> documentation, access files, and file tickets.  Salesforce is the biggie
>> here in CRM-land, of course, but it costs a boatload, and, for what she,
>> specifically, is doing, is likely overkill.  If you've had exposure to a
>> CRM solution, AND a vendor that can offer support, I'd be happy to pass
>> suggestions on.  Open Source is winning, but the key "feature" is
>> someone who can hand-hold during install, and be available post-install.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> -Ken
>> ___
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>> http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
>>
>
>
> --
> new email:  jfree...@hey.com
> https://joshuasfreeman.me
>
> [image: View Joshua S. Freeman's profile on LinkedIn]
> 
>
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Re: CRM?

[jsf]

Hubspot? zohoCRM?   just a couple of reccos.

Good luck!

J.


On Mon, Nov 28, 2022 at 10:32 AM Ken D'Ambrosio  wrote:

> Hey, all.  My wife's taken a new(ish) job, and is the tech pubs manager
> at a company in upstate NY.  (She's 100% WFH with occasional visits to
> company offices.)  And they really need a way that "customers" -- both
> internal and for-real paying customers -- can interact with their
> documentation, access files, and file tickets.  Salesforce is the biggie
> here in CRM-land, of course, but it costs a boatload, and, for what she,
> specifically, is doing, is likely overkill.  If you've had exposure to a
> CRM solution, AND a vendor that can offer support, I'd be happy to pass
> suggestions on.  Open Source is winning, but the key "feature" is
> someone who can hand-hold during install, and be available post-install.
>
> Thanks!
>
> -Ken
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>


-- 
new email:  jfree...@hey.com
https://joshuasfreeman.me

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Re: setting up my own git server

[Bruce Labitt]

On 10/9/22 3:00 PM, Bruce Labitt wrote:
> On 10/9/22 2:41 PM, Šarūnas wrote:
>> On 09/10/2022 14.32, Bruce Labitt wrote:
>>> I am trying to accomplish this and am running into a couple of
>>> problems.  Following the instructions at:
>>> https://www.linuxfoundation.org/blog/blog/classic-sysadmin-how-to-run-your-own-git-server
>>>
>>>   Specifically, the command $
>>>
>>> cat ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub | sshgit@remote-server  "mkdir -p ~/.ssh && cat
>    ~/.ssh/authorized_keys"
>>> fails  with the message bash: /home/git/.ssh/authorized_keys:
>>> Permission denied
>> I don't know about git server (probably just a host with SSH access?),
>> but copying your public key to remote host can be done with:
>>
>> ssh-copy-id -i ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub git@remote-server
>>
>> It always worked.
>>
>> Good luck,
>>
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> I am getting permission denied.  Here's the question.  I am logged in as
> bruce on the remote, and pushing my id_rsa.pub to user git on the
> remote-server.  Do I need to instead be user git on the remote, create
> ssh keys, and then push them to remote-server?  When I created the git
> user on both computers, they have no sudoer privileges.  When I did
> adduser, I forgot to use the -m flag, so there's no home/git on the
> remote.  But there is a /home/git on the server.
>
> $ ssh-copy-id -i ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub git@rpi4.local
> /usr/bin/ssh-copy-id: INFO: Source of key(s) to be installed:
> "/home/bruce/.ssh/id_rsa.pub"
> /usr/bin/ssh-copy-id: INFO: attempting to log in with the new key(s), to
> filter out any that are already installed
> /usr/bin/ssh-copy-id: INFO: 1 key(s) remain to be installed -- if you
> are prompted now it is to install the new keys
> git@rpi4.local's password:
> sh: 1: cannot create .ssh/authorized_keys: Permission denied
>
> This stuff always puzzles me.  There's an obvious explanation for the
> failure, but beats me what it is.
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>
Strangely, it worked after a second time - after I deleted the empty 
authorized_keys.  Was able to ssh in to the git@remote-server using the 
passphrase, and checked there was an entry in the authorized keys 
corresponding to the remote computer.

Back to the git issue.  At least there's some progress :)

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Re: setting up my own git server

[Bruce Labitt]

On 10/9/22 2:41 PM, Šarūnas wrote:
> On 09/10/2022 14.32, Bruce Labitt wrote:
>> I am trying to accomplish this and am running into a couple of 
>> problems.  Following the instructions at: 
>> https://www.linuxfoundation.org/blog/blog/classic-sysadmin-how-to-run-your-own-git-server
>>
>>  Specifically, the command $
>>
>> cat ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub | sshgit@remote-server  "mkdir -p ~/.ssh && cat
>> >>  ~/.ssh/authorized_keys"
>>
>> fails  with the message bash: /home/git/.ssh/authorized_keys:
>> Permission denied
>
> I don't know about git server (probably just a host with SSH access?), 
> but copying your public key to remote host can be done with:
>
> ssh-copy-id -i ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub git@remote-server
>
> It always worked.
>
> Good luck,
>
> ___
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> http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/

I am getting permission denied.  Here's the question.  I am logged in as 
bruce on the remote, and pushing my id_rsa.pub to user git on the 
remote-server.  Do I need to instead be user git on the remote, create 
ssh keys, and then push them to remote-server?  When I created the git 
user on both computers, they have no sudoer privileges.  When I did 
adduser, I forgot to use the -m flag, so there's no home/git on the 
remote.  But there is a /home/git on the server.

$ ssh-copy-id -i ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub git@rpi4.local
/usr/bin/ssh-copy-id: INFO: Source of key(s) to be installed: 
"/home/bruce/.ssh/id_rsa.pub"
/usr/bin/ssh-copy-id: INFO: attempting to log in with the new key(s), to 
filter out any that are already installed
/usr/bin/ssh-copy-id: INFO: 1 key(s) remain to be installed -- if you 
are prompted now it is to install the new keys
git@rpi4.local's password:
sh: 1: cannot create .ssh/authorized_keys: Permission denied

This stuff always puzzles me.  There's an obvious explanation for the 
failure, but beats me what it is.
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Re: setting up my own git server

[Šarūnas]

On 09/10/2022 14.32, Bruce Labitt wrote:
I am trying to accomplish this and am running into a couple of 
problems.  Following the instructions at: 
https://www.linuxfoundation.org/blog/blog/classic-sysadmin-how-to-run-your-own-git-server


 Specifically, the command $

cat ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub | sshgit@remote-server  "mkdir -p ~/.ssh && cat
>>  ~/.ssh/authorized_keys"

fails  with the message bash: /home/git/.ssh/authorized_keys:
Permission denied


I don't know about git server (probably just a host with SSH access?), 
but copying your public key to remote host can be done with:


ssh-copy-id -i ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub git@remote-server

It always worked.

Good luck,
--
Šarūnas Burdulis
math.dartmouth.edu/~sarunas



OpenPGP_signature
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Re: [GNHLUG] [dlslug-announce] virtual meeting at 7 PM on Sep 1, 2022

[Jerry Feldman]

Live streaming to YouTube take a bit of a knack. You've got to create the
stream in YouTube studio. Copy/paste the key into the jitsi live stream.
Then if you want viewers just publish the shareable link. After the meeting
you can download and edit the stream.

--
Jerry Feldman 
Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org
PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
PGP Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1  3050 5715 B88D 6F6
B B6E7

On Thu, Sep 1, 2022, 10:44 AM Lloyd Kvam  wrote:

>https://meet.jit.si/dlslug-jitsi
>
>
> 
> Topics:
>
> Enabling SSH connections using public key
> (I will try to use a Linux to Windows connection as the
>  example)
>
> Using YouTube for meetings
> (enables others to see meeting at a later time)
>
> --
> Lloyd Kvam
> Venix
> https://lists.dlslug.org/sympa/lists
> DLSLUG/GNHLUG library
> http://dlslug.org/library.html
> http://www.librarything.com/catalog/dlslug
> http://www.librarything.com/catalog/dlslug&sort=stamp
> http://www.librarything.com/rss/recent/dlslug
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [GNHLUG] [dlslug-announce] virtual meeting at 7 PM on Sep 1, 2022

[r270]

Hi Lloyd,

I noticed that the Boston Linux group streams their meetings on YouTube. Is 
that something you think we should do? 

I think I could do that if it makes sense.

Ron Smith
r...@mrt4.com
1-603-360-1000

--

On Tue, 30 Aug 2022 10:48:30 -0400
Lloyd Kvam  wrote:

>https://meet.jit.si/dlslug-jitsi
> 
> 
> 
> Topics:
> 
>   Enabling SSH connections using public key
>   (I will try to use a Linux to Windows connection as the
>  example)
> 
> 
> -- 
> Lloyd Kvam
> Venix
> https://lists.dlslug.org/sympa/lists
> DLSLUG/GNHLUG library
> http://dlslug.org/library.html
> http://www.librarything.com/catalog/dlslug
> http://www.librarything.com/catalog/dlslug&sort=stamp
> http://www.librarything.com/rss/recent/dlslug
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Discuss] Boston Linux and Unix Annual Summer BBQ XXVII Saturday August 20, 2022 at 11:00AM (finally good weather)

[Jerry Feldman]

Way back we had a speaker who rented a lift gate truck and use computer
network cables to tie the server down. The truck cleared the roof by about
1/2 in back in building 4 days

--
Jerry Feldman 
Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org
PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
PGP Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1  3050 5715 B88D 6F6
B B6E7

On Wed, Aug 24, 2022, 5:20 PM Derek Martin  wrote:

> On Sat, Aug 20, 2022 at 03:03:34AM -0400, John Abreau wrote:
> > Hi, Derek.
> >
> > Do you recall what year you spoke at a BLU meeting? I just checked our
> > calendar, and your name doesn't appear as a speaker.
> >
> > I see Matt Brodeur spoke at three meetings, all three about PGP/GnuPG,
> but
> > we hadn't listed a second speaker at any of them.
> >
> > The dates were 2001-12-19, 2004-09-15, and 2005-08-17.
>
> I wasn't an official speaker... I just contributed on the fly at
> Matt's request, briefly.  It would've been the 2001 date.
>
> --
> Derek D. Martinhttp://www.pizzashack.org/   GPG Key ID: 0xDFBEAD02
> -=-=-=-=-
> This message is posted from an invalid address.  Replying to it will
> result in
> undeliverable mail due to spam prevention.  Sorry for the inconvenience.
>
> ___
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> disc...@lists.blu.org
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
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Re: [Discuss] Boston Linux and Unix Annual Summer BBQ XXVII Saturday August 20, 2022 at 11:00AM (finally good weather)

[Jerry Feldman]

Unfortunately MIT's campus remains closed. I don't see them opening up
campus this year

--
Jerry Feldman 
Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org
PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
PGP Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1  3050 5715 B88D 6F6
B B6E7

On Wed, Aug 17, 2022, 6:20 PM Derek Martin  wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 17, 2022 at 06:06:38PM -0400, Jerry Feldman wrote:
> > And you never graced us with you presence at the BBQs, but you did speak
> at
> > at least 1 Blu meeting.
>
> This is true.  And it was just one... I spoke with Matt Brodeur about
> PGP/GPG.  Good memory!  That was a very long time ago...  I barely
> remember it myself.
>
> It's a shame I never went to one of the BBQs.  I do like BBQ... :-)
> Unfortunately I am not free the 20th, meeting family (for BBQ!  Sort
> of...) at the beach.
>
> I was curious--is there any thought given to resuming meetings in
> person?  Covid's not gone but it's not going away and has settled
> down quite a bit.
>
> --
> Derek D. Martinhttp://www.pizzashack.org/   GPG Key ID: 0xDFBEAD02
> -=-=-=-=-
> This message is posted from an invalid address.  Replying to it will
> result in
> undeliverable mail due to spam prevention.  Sorry for the inconvenience.
>
> ___
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> disc...@lists.blu.org
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
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Re: [Discuss] Boston Linux and Unix Annual Summer BBQ XXVII Saturday August 20, 2022 at 11:00AM (finally good weather)

[Jerry Feldman]

And you never graced us with you presence at the BBQs, but you did speak at
at least 1 Blu meeting.

--
Jerry Feldman 
Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org
PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
PGP Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1  3050 5715 B88D 6F6
B B6E7

On Wed, Aug 17, 2022, 6:04 PM Derek Martin  wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 17, 2022 at 01:53:44PM -0400, Jerry Feldman wrote:
> > Boston Linux & Unix is holding its twenty-seventh annual summer BBQ on
> > Saturday, August 20, beginning at 11:00 a.m. Everyone is welcome.
>
> Fun fact (for me at least):  I've been using Unix for the same number
> of years BLU has been having BBQs. =8^)
>
> --
> Derek D. Martinhttp://www.pizzashack.org/   GPG Key ID: 0xDFBEAD02
> -=-=-=-=-
> This message is posted from an invalid address.  Replying to it will
> result in
> undeliverable mail due to spam prevention.  Sorry for the inconvenience.
>
> ___
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> disc...@lists.blu.org
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
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Re: Boston Linux and Unix Annual Summer BBQ XXVII Saturday August 20, 2022 at 11:00AM (finally good weather)

[Jerry Feldman]

Boston Linux & Unix is holding its twenty-seventh annual summer BBQ on 
Saturday, August 20, beginning at 11:00 a.m. Everyone is welcome. Guests 
are encouraged to bring along something for the grill and the snack 
table. We're holding the barbecue at John and Shelley Chambers' home at 
33 Cedarwood Avenue, Waltham, MA.

Location

John and Shelley Chambers' home
Take Route 128 to Exit 41 (formerly Exit 26) in Waltham. Get onto Route 
20 East, towards Boston; then take the first right onto Cedarwood 
Avenue. There's a bus stop at Cedarwood, and usually several buses 
parked there. The Chambers' residence, 33 Cedarwood Avenue, is on the 
right-hand side of the street. See the Location link above for more details.

Weather forecast is cloudy with a high of 89° about 20% chance of rain

-- 

Jerry Feldman 
Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org
PGP key id:B7F14F2F
PGP Key fingerprint: D937 A424 4836 E052 2E1B  8DC6 24D7 000F B7F1 4F2F


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Re: Boston Linux and Unix Annual Summer BBQ XXVII POSTPONED until Saturday August 6, 2022 at 3:00PM

[Jerry Feldman]

Good, thanks

--
Jerry Feldman 
Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org
PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
PGP Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1  3050 5715 B88D 6F6
B B6E7

On Fri, Jul 22, 2022, 3:17 PM John Abreau  wrote:

> I've updated the BLU calendar and the Google calendar to reflect the
> change of date.
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 22, 2022 at 9:10 AM Jerry Feldman  wrote:
>
>> Yes, it is the temps that caused us to postpone. There is some shade
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 22, 2022 at 8:58 AM Robert Primak 
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Let's hope for better weather on Aug. 6th. I would not have attended on
>> > the 23rd due to the temps.
>> >
>> > -- Bob Primak
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Friday, July 22, 2022 at 07:16:42 AM EDT, Jerry Feldman <
>> > gaf.li...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Boston Linux & Unix is holding its twenty-seventh annual summer BBQ on
>> > Saturday, July 23 has been postponed due to extremely high and unhealthy
>> > temperatures. We will hold the BBQ on Saturday, August 6, beginning at
>> > 3:00 p.m.
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Jerry Feldman 
>> > Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org
>> > PGP key id:B7F14F2F
>> > PGP Key fingerprint: D937 A424 4836 E052 2E1B  8DC6 24D7 000F B7F1 4F2F
>> >
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Announce mailing list
>> > annou...@lists.blu.org
>> > http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/announce
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> Jerry Feldman 
>> Boston Linux and Unix
>> PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
>> Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1  3050 5715 B88D 6F6B B6E7
>> ___
>> Announce mailing list
>> annou...@lists.blu.org
>> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/announce
>>
>
>
> --
> John Abreau / Executive Director, Boston Linux & Unix
> Email j...@blu.org / WWW http://www.abreau.net / PGP-Key-ID 0x920063C6
> PGP-Key-Fingerprint A5AD 6BE1 FEFE 8E4F 5C23  C2D0 E885 E17C 9200 63C6
>
>
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Re: Boston Linux and Unix Annual Summer BBQ XXVII POSTPONED until Saturday August 6, 2022 at 3:00PM

[John Abreau]

I've updated the BLU calendar and the Google calendar to reflect the change
of date.


On Fri, Jul 22, 2022 at 9:10 AM Jerry Feldman  wrote:

> Yes, it is the temps that caused us to postpone. There is some shade
>
> On Fri, Jul 22, 2022 at 8:58 AM Robert Primak  wrote:
>
> > Let's hope for better weather on Aug. 6th. I would not have attended on
> > the 23rd due to the temps.
> >
> > -- Bob Primak
> >
> >
> >
> > On Friday, July 22, 2022 at 07:16:42 AM EDT, Jerry Feldman <
> > gaf.li...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Boston Linux & Unix is holding its twenty-seventh annual summer BBQ on
> > Saturday, July 23 has been postponed due to extremely high and unhealthy
> > temperatures. We will hold the BBQ on Saturday, August 6, beginning at
> > 3:00 p.m.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jerry Feldman 
> > Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org
> > PGP key id:B7F14F2F
> > PGP Key fingerprint: D937 A424 4836 E052 2E1B  8DC6 24D7 000F B7F1 4F2F
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Announce mailing list
> > annou...@lists.blu.org
> > http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/announce
> >
>
>
> --
> --
> Jerry Feldman 
> Boston Linux and Unix
> PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
> Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1  3050 5715 B88D 6F6B B6E7
> ___
> Announce mailing list
> annou...@lists.blu.org
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/announce
>


-- 
John Abreau / Executive Director, Boston Linux & Unix
Email j...@blu.org / WWW http://www.abreau.net / PGP-Key-ID 0x920063C6
PGP-Key-Fingerprint A5AD 6BE1 FEFE 8E4F 5C23  C2D0 E885 E17C 9200 63C6
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Re: Boston Linux and Unix Annual Summer BBQ XXVII POSTPONED until Saturday August 6, 2022 at 3:00PM

[Jerry Feldman]

Yes, it is the temps that caused us to postpone. There is some shade

On Fri, Jul 22, 2022 at 8:58 AM Robert Primak  wrote:

> Let's hope for better weather on Aug. 6th. I would not have attended on
> the 23rd due to the temps.
>
> -- Bob Primak
>
>
>
> On Friday, July 22, 2022 at 07:16:42 AM EDT, Jerry Feldman <
> gaf.li...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Boston Linux & Unix is holding its twenty-seventh annual summer BBQ on
> Saturday, July 23 has been postponed due to extremely high and unhealthy
> temperatures. We will hold the BBQ on Saturday, August 6, beginning at
> 3:00 p.m.
>
>
> --
> Jerry Feldman 
> Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org
> PGP key id:B7F14F2F
> PGP Key fingerprint: D937 A424 4836 E052 2E1B  8DC6 24D7 000F B7F1 4F2F
>
>
> ___
> Announce mailing list
> annou...@lists.blu.org
> http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/announce
>


-- 
--
Jerry Feldman 
Boston Linux and Unix
PGP key id: 6F6BB6E7
Key fingerprint: 0EDC 2FF5 53A6 8EED 84D1  3050 5715 B88D 6F6B B6E7
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Re: Boston Linux and Unix Annual Summer BBQ XXVII POSTPONED until Saturday August 6, 2022 at 3:00PM

[Jerry Feldman]

Boston Linux & Unix is holding its twenty-seventh annual summer BBQ on 
Saturday, July 23 has been postponed due to extremely high and unhealthy 
temperatures. We will hold the BBQ on Saturday, August 6, beginning at 
3:00 p.m.


-- 
Jerry Feldman 
Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org
PGP key id:B7F14F2F
PGP Key fingerprint: D937 A424 4836 E052 2E1B  8DC6 24D7 000F B7F1 4F2F


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Re: Boston Linux and Unix Annual Summer BBQ XXVII Saturday July 23, 2022 at 3:00PM

[Jerry Feldman]

Boston Linux & Unix is holding its twenty-seventh annual summer BBQ on 
Saturday, July 23 (RAIN DATE: Saturday, August 6), beginning at 3:00 
p.m. Everyone is welcome. Guests are encouraged to bring along something 
for the grill and the snack table. We're holding the barbeque at John 
and Shelley Chambers' home at 33 Cedarwood Avenue, Waltham, MA.

Location

John and Shelley Chambers' home
Take Route 128 to Exit 41 (formerly Exit 26) in Waltham. Get onto Route 
20 East, towards Boston; then take the first right onto Cedarwood 
Avenue. There's a bus stop at Cedarwood, and usually several buses 
parked there. The Chambers' residence, 33 Cedarwood Avenue, is on the 
right-hand side of the street. See the Location link above for more details.

Weather forecast is currently for rain. We have a rain date of Saturday 
August 6, 2022 at 3:00PM. I'll post the change as we get closer to Saturday

-- 
Jerry Feldman 
Boston Linux and Unix http://www.blu.org
PGP key id:B7F14F2F
PGP Key fingerprint: D937 A424 4836 E052 2E1B  8DC6 24D7 000F B7F1 4F2F


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Re: Is there a decent file attribute (date) conserving way to download your photos from Google?

[Bruce Labitt]

Thank you.  The links are very helpful.  I will check them all out.
Think I have enough info to make a valiant attempt at sorting this all out.

Bruce

On 6/22/22 12:26 PM, Dan Jenkins wrote:
Summary: The JSON files contain ALL the metadata from EXIF info for 
each photo. You need to merge the JSON info back into the JPG files. 
There is a (purportedly) very good tool for doing that. I have not 
used the tool myself.


Hope this helps.

Here are supporting links:

  * Article on /How to Export Your Images From Google Photos Using
Takeout/
https://metadatafixer.com/learn/how-to-export-images-google-photos-takeout
  * The tool (EXIFTool) itself: https://exiftool.org/
  * Apple forum on the topic, with instructions:
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/253234040
  * EXIFTool forum with instructions for Google Takeout json files:
https://exiftool.org/forum/index.php?topic=11064.0


On 2022-06-21 13:41, Mark Komarinski wrote:

There should be EXIF metadata in each photo which should include the date taken.

Should.

-Mark

On Jun 21, 2022 1:27 PM, Bruce Labitt  wrote:

 Recently got a message (well really quite a few) warning me that my
 "free storage" on google is running out.  This, of course, is yet a new
 way for Google to monetize all the free stuff that they had been
 providing for a while.  I do have strong opinions on re-negging on
 promises, but lets not go there.

 Google apparently provides a way to extract your data, more or less.
 You can export your data using "Google Takeout".  So I wanted to takeout
 my photos, since it seemed they were the dominant storage hog.  I
 exported my photos, and got 8 2GB zip files.  Google touched the files
 and they all have today's date. This stinks because I usually sort on
 date.  For some of the photos, the date is embedded in the file name.
 For the earlier ones, the camera manufacturer didn't do that.  (Takeout
 only exports the data, it does not delete it.)  In the export, it seems
 there are json files for every jpg downloaded.  Seems like a lot of
 clutter, what use are these json files?  Apparently they had some value
 to Google, because they made them.

 Is there some way to extract the photos from google with the dates intact?

 If not, can the files be parsed for their date taken and the attribute
 date reset to the taken date?  Say one were to do this in python, it
 seems one could do this with PIL, and os.walk through the directories.
 Not quite as sure about resetting the date attribute, but pretty sure it
 can be done.  Seems like it could be an interesting exercise.  (Suppose
 one could also extract the GPS info if available and further categorize
 the photos.)

 Are there any pitfalls to the the paragraph above?  Can any of you
 suggest a better way to do this?

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Re: Is there a decent file attribute (date) conserving way to download your photos from Google?

[Dan Jenkins]

Summary: The JSON files contain ALL the metadata from EXIF info for each 
photo. You need to merge the JSON info back into the JPG files. There is 
a (purportedly) very good tool for doing that. I have not used the tool 
myself.


Hope this helps.

Here are supporting links:

 * Article on /How to Export Your Images From Google Photos Using Takeout/
   https://metadatafixer.com/learn/how-to-export-images-google-photos-takeout
 * The tool (EXIFTool) itself: https://exiftool.org/
 * Apple forum on the topic, with instructions:
   https://discussions.apple.com/thread/253234040
 * EXIFTool forum with instructions for Google Takeout json files:
   https://exiftool.org/forum/index.php?topic=11064.0


On 2022-06-21 13:41, Mark Komarinski wrote:

There should be EXIF metadata in each photo which should include the date taken.

Should.

-Mark

On Jun 21, 2022 1:27 PM, Bruce Labitt  wrote:

 Recently got a message (well really quite a few) warning me that my
 "free storage" on google is running out.  This, of course, is yet a new
 way for Google to monetize all the free stuff that they had been
 providing for a while.  I do have strong opinions on re-negging on
 promises, but lets not go there.

 Google apparently provides a way to extract your data, more or less.
 You can export your data using "Google Takeout".  So I wanted to takeout
 my photos, since it seemed they were the dominant storage hog.  I
 exported my photos, and got 8 2GB zip files.  Google touched the files
 and they all have today's date. This stinks because I usually sort on
 date.  For some of the photos, the date is embedded in the file name.
 For the earlier ones, the camera manufacturer didn't do that.  (Takeout
 only exports the data, it does not delete it.)  In the export, it seems
 there are json files for every jpg downloaded.  Seems like a lot of
 clutter, what use are these json files?  Apparently they had some value
 to Google, because they made them.

 Is there some way to extract the photos from google with the dates intact?

 If not, can the files be parsed for their date taken and the attribute
 date reset to the taken date?  Say one were to do this in python, it
 seems one could do this with PIL, and os.walk through the directories.
 Not quite as sure about resetting the date attribute, but pretty sure it
 can be done.  Seems like it could be an interesting exercise.  (Suppose
 one could also extract the GPS info if available and further categorize
 the photos.)

 Are there any pitfalls to the the paragraph above?  Can any of you
 suggest a better way to do this?

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Re: Is there a decent file attribute (date) conserving way to download your photos from Google?

[Mark Komarinski]

There should be EXIF metadata in each photo which should include the date taken.Should.-MarkOn Jun 21, 2022 1:27 PM, Bruce Labitt  wrote:Recently got a message (well really quite a few) warning me that my 
"free storage" on google is running out.  This, of course, is yet a new 
way for Google to monetize all the free stuff that they had been 
providing for a while.  I do have strong opinions on re-negging on 
promises, but lets not go there.
Google apparently provides a way to extract your data, more or less.  
You can export your data using "Google Takeout".  So I wanted to takeout 
my photos, since it seemed they were the dominant storage hog.  I 
exported my photos, and got 8 2GB zip files.  Google touched the files 
and they all have today's date. This stinks because I usually sort on 
date.  For some of the photos, the date is embedded in the file name.  
For the earlier ones, the camera manufacturer didn't do that.  (Takeout 
only exports the data, it does not delete it.)  In the export, it seems 
there are json files for every jpg downloaded.  Seems like a lot of 
clutter, what use are these json files?  Apparently they had some value 
to Google, because they made them.
Is there some way to extract the photos from google with the dates intact?
If not, can the files be parsed for their date taken and the attribute 
date reset to the taken date?  Say one were to do this in python, it 
seems one could do this with PIL, and os.walk through the directories.  
Not quite as sure about resetting the date attribute, but pretty sure it 
can be done.  Seems like it could be an interesting exercise.  (Suppose 
one could also extract the GPS info if available and further categorize 
the photos.)
Are there any pitfalls to the the paragraph above?  Can any of you 
suggest a better way to do this?
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Re: Debugging linux crashes

[Bruce Labitt]

The USB mode changes during the flashing, wonder if that is what is 
confusing the kernel or not. During the "wake up the Teensy bootloader 
mode", I think the USB is talking to /dev/hidraw4, once the device is 
programmed, the Teensy (M7) appears as /dev/ttyACM0.  Maybe the kernel 
can't handle a lot of these transitions, falsely thinking there's an 
error, or there's a goofy hard limit programmed in the kernel...


Can anyone think of why USB transactions or USB mode switches might trip 
a trip into lala land?



On 6/13/22 10:20 PM, Bruce Labitt wrote:
FWIW, this total system crash has been isolated to the kernel.  Kernel 
5.17.5-76051705 crashes. Which was pushed out to apt on, guess what, 
May 26, 2022, the date my computer went to hades.


Kernel 5.15.0-37-generic does not crash.  Kernel 5.18.2 also crashes, 
only if I use TyCommander, but not necessarily during a USB flashing.  
I had 5.18.2 crash while I was using Firefox, but while Arduino IDE 
and TyCommander were active.


Now running on 5.15 and things are stable.

I know nothing about kernels and stuff like this.  Been forced into 
it.  An average Joe like me shouldn't have to deal with this kind of 
thing.


TyCommander works fine on an RPI4 running Raspberry Pi OS 64 bit, 
which as I understand it is a Debian derivative.  The kernel is 
5.15.30, according to Wikipedia.  Not looking forward to an update of 
that kernel.


I have no idea how to make a minimal dying example for any developers...



On 6/6/22 4:05 PM, Bruce Labitt wrote:

Followup with SW related items.

$ cat /etc/os-release
NAME="Pop!_OS"
VERSION="22.04 LTS"
ID=pop
ID_LIKE="ubuntu debian"
PRETTY_NAME="Pop!_OS 22.04 LTS"
VERSION_ID="22.04"
HOME_URL="https://pop.system76.com";
SUPPORT_URL="https://support.system76.com";
BUG_REPORT_URL="https://github.com/pop-os/pop/issues";
PRIVACY_POLICY_URL="https://system76.com/privacy";
VERSION_CODENAME=jammy
UBUNTU_CODENAME=jammy
LOGO=distributor-logo-pop-os

$ uname -a
Linux pop-os 5.17.5-76051705-generic 
#202204271406~1653440576~22.04~6277a18 SMP PREEMPT Wed May 25 01 
x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux


Tytools from https://github.com/Koromix/tytools
Teensyduino from: https://www.pjrc.com/teensy/td_download.html
Arduino download from: https://www.arduino.cc/en/software V1.8.19.
Data on Teensy 4.1 microcontroller (Arm M7, NXP IMXRT1060) 
https://www.pjrc.com/store/teensy41.html
IMXRT1060 Processor Reference Manual 
https://www.pjrc.com/teensy/IMXRT1060RM_rev3.pdf


Me, I am writing code to make an electronic lead screw for my lathe. 
Motor control works with NEMA-24 stepper motor and rotary encoder.  
Working on the UI on a touch panel tft display. Or, I was, until my 
laptop crashed...



On 6/6/22 3:47 PM, Bruce Labitt wrote:


Will try my best.  It's tough to keep your cool when your life, ie. 
your own computer is crapping out.  Much easier, when it is someone 
else's. Pity the machine is not up at the moment.  Been busy 
transferring my life to an RPI4, which hasn't been as easy as it 
seems like it should.  Writing this on my RPI4-8GB with RaspiOS-64bit.


Laptop in question, with the problem: System76 Oryx6. 32GB RAM, 1TB 
SSD Samsung 970 EVO Plus


HW Details:

=

Intel-10875H CPU, Intel HM470 chipset, MX25L12872F flash chip 
running System76 Open Firmware BIOS,
ITE IT5570E runningSystem76 EC , 
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060, 15.6" 1920x1080@144Hz LCD, LCD panel: Panda 
LM156LF1F (or equivalent)
External video outputs: 1x HDMI, 1x Mini DisplayPort 1.4, 1x 
DisplayPort over USB-C

MemoryUp to 64GB (2x32GB) dual-channel DDR4 SO-DIMMs @ 3200 MHz -- 32 GB

Networking:Gigabit Ethernet,M.2 PCIe/CNVi WiFi/Bluetooth,Intel Wi-Fi 
6 AX200/AX201


Power: 180W (19.5V, 9.23A) DC-in port,Barrel size: 5.5mm (outer), 
2.5mm (inner),Included AC adapter: Chicony A17-180P4A,AC power cord 
type: IEC C5,73Wh 3-cell battery


Sound:Internal speakers & microphone,Combined headphone & microphone 
3.5mm jack,Combined microphone & S/PDIF (optical) 3.5mm jack,HDMI, 
Mini DisplayPort, USB-C DisplayPort audio


Storage:1x M.2 (PCIe NVMe or SATA) - NVME 1 TB installed, 1x M.2 
(PCIe NVMe only) - empty,MicroSD card reader


USB:3x USB 3.2 Gen 1 Type-A,1x USB Type-C with Thunderbolt 3

Dimensions:15": 35.75cm x 23.8cm x 1.98cm, 1.99kg

=== End HW details 
==


Pop-OS-64 bit.  22.04.  Fresh install over existing Ubuntu 20.04 LTS.

I need to reboot the computer to get the kernel stuff.  Will 
followup with uname -a.


Problem occurs when using USB to program Teensy 4.1 
microcontroller.  Active programs at time of crash = Arduino IDE V 
1.8.19, Teensyduino 1.56 (required to allow Arduino to recognize and 
program Teensy microcontrollers), and Tytools, 0.9.7, which is a 
tool to program and manage Teensy proce

Re: Debugging linux crashes

[Bruce Labitt]

FWIW, this total system crash has been isolated to the kernel.  Kernel 
5.17.5-76051705 crashes.  Which was pushed out to apt on, guess what, 
May 26, 2022, the date my computer went to hades.


Kernel 5.15.0-37-generic does not crash.  Kernel 5.18.2 also crashes, 
only if I use TyCommander, but not necessarily during a USB flashing.  I 
had 5.18.2 crash while I was using Firefox, but while Arduino IDE and 
TyCommander were active.


Now running on 5.15 and things are stable.

I know nothing about kernels and stuff like this.  Been forced into it.  
An average Joe like me shouldn't have to deal with this kind of thing.


TyCommander works fine on an RPI4 running Raspberry Pi OS 64 bit, which 
as I understand it is a Debian derivative.  The kernel is 5.15.30, 
according to Wikipedia.  Not looking forward to an update of that kernel.


I have no idea how to make a minimal dying example for any developers...



On 6/6/22 4:05 PM, Bruce Labitt wrote:

Followup with SW related items.

$ cat /etc/os-release
NAME="Pop!_OS"
VERSION="22.04 LTS"
ID=pop
ID_LIKE="ubuntu debian"
PRETTY_NAME="Pop!_OS 22.04 LTS"
VERSION_ID="22.04"
HOME_URL="https://pop.system76.com";
SUPPORT_URL="https://support.system76.com";
BUG_REPORT_URL="https://github.com/pop-os/pop/issues";
PRIVACY_POLICY_URL="https://system76.com/privacy";
VERSION_CODENAME=jammy
UBUNTU_CODENAME=jammy
LOGO=distributor-logo-pop-os

$ uname -a
Linux pop-os 5.17.5-76051705-generic 
#202204271406~1653440576~22.04~6277a18 SMP PREEMPT Wed May 25 01 
x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux


Tytools from https://github.com/Koromix/tytools
Teensyduino from: https://www.pjrc.com/teensy/td_download.html
Arduino download from: https://www.arduino.cc/en/software V1.8.19.
Data on Teensy 4.1 microcontroller (Arm M7, NXP IMXRT1060) 
https://www.pjrc.com/store/teensy41.html
IMXRT1060 Processor Reference Manual 
https://www.pjrc.com/teensy/IMXRT1060RM_rev3.pdf


Me, I am writing code to make an electronic lead screw for my lathe. 
Motor control works with NEMA-24 stepper motor and rotary encoder.  
Working on the UI on a touch panel tft display.  Or, I was, until my 
laptop crashed...



On 6/6/22 3:47 PM, Bruce Labitt wrote:


Will try my best.  It's tough to keep your cool when your life, ie. 
your own computer is crapping out.  Much easier, when it is someone 
else's.  Pity the machine is not up at the moment.  Been busy 
transferring my life to an RPI4, which hasn't been as easy as it 
seems like it should.  Writing this on my RPI4-8GB with RaspiOS-64bit.


Laptop in question, with the problem: System76 Oryx6. 32GB RAM, 1TB 
SSD Samsung 970 EVO Plus


HW Details:

=

Intel-10875H CPU, Intel HM470 chipset, MX25L12872F flash chip running 
System76 Open Firmware BIOS,
ITE IT5570E runningSystem76 EC , 
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060, 15.6" 1920x1080@144Hz LCD, LCD panel: Panda 
LM156LF1F (or equivalent)
External video outputs: 1x HDMI, 1x Mini DisplayPort 1.4, 1x 
DisplayPort over USB-C

MemoryUp to 64GB (2x32GB) dual-channel DDR4 SO-DIMMs @ 3200 MHz -- 32 GB

Networking:Gigabit Ethernet,M.2 PCIe/CNVi WiFi/Bluetooth,Intel Wi-Fi 
6 AX200/AX201


Power: 180W (19.5V, 9.23A) DC-in port,Barrel size: 5.5mm (outer), 
2.5mm (inner),Included AC adapter: Chicony A17-180P4A,AC power cord 
type: IEC C5,73Wh 3-cell battery


Sound:Internal speakers & microphone,Combined headphone & microphone 
3.5mm jack,Combined microphone & S/PDIF (optical) 3.5mm jack,HDMI, 
Mini DisplayPort, USB-C DisplayPort audio


Storage:1x M.2 (PCIe NVMe or SATA) - NVME 1 TB installed, 1x M.2 
(PCIe NVMe only) - empty,MicroSD card reader


USB:3x USB 3.2 Gen 1 Type-A,1x USB Type-C with Thunderbolt 3

Dimensions:15": 35.75cm x 23.8cm x 1.98cm, 1.99kg

=== End HW details 
==


Pop-OS-64 bit.  22.04.  Fresh install over existing Ubuntu 20.04 LTS.

I need to reboot the computer to get the kernel stuff.  Will followup 
with uname -a.


Problem occurs when using USB to program Teensy 4.1 microcontroller.  
Active programs at time of crash = Arduino IDE V 1.8.19, Teensyduino 
1.56 (required to allow Arduino to recognize and program Teensy 
microcontrollers), and Tytools, 0.9.7, which is a tool to program and 
manage Teensy processors.  Prior to 26 May 2022, this all worked 
flawlessly.


And, the above SW does work flawlessly on the RPI4B, running 
RaspberryPiOS-64bit, but not on my laptop.  On my laptop I get system 
crashes.


Only clues I have found are in syslog, and dmesg, but they only show 
some normal USB transactions, then the computer powering up again.


Thanks Ben, for at least answering (humoring?) me.  Been an awful 
week with this crash.  These crashes are so bad, that there's 
practically nothing in the logs.  Last entry is using the USB port.  
And the power tur

Re: Debugging linux crashes

[Bruce Labitt]

Followup with SW related items.

$ cat /etc/os-release
NAME="Pop!_OS"
VERSION="22.04 LTS"
ID=pop
ID_LIKE="ubuntu debian"
PRETTY_NAME="Pop!_OS 22.04 LTS"
VERSION_ID="22.04"
HOME_URL="https://pop.system76.com";
SUPPORT_URL="https://support.system76.com";
BUG_REPORT_URL="https://github.com/pop-os/pop/issues";
PRIVACY_POLICY_URL="https://system76.com/privacy";
VERSION_CODENAME=jammy
UBUNTU_CODENAME=jammy
LOGO=distributor-logo-pop-os

$ uname -a
Linux pop-os 5.17.5-76051705-generic 
#202204271406~1653440576~22.04~6277a18 SMP PREEMPT Wed May 25 01 x86_64 
x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux


Tytools from https://github.com/Koromix/tytools
Teensyduino from: https://www.pjrc.com/teensy/td_download.html
Arduino download from: https://www.arduino.cc/en/software  V1.8.19.
Data on Teensy 4.1 microcontroller (Arm M7, NXP IMXRT1060) 
https://www.pjrc.com/store/teensy41.html
IMXRT1060 Processor Reference Manual 
https://www.pjrc.com/teensy/IMXRT1060RM_rev3.pdf


Me, I am writing code to make an electronic lead screw for my lathe.  
Motor control works with NEMA-24 stepper motor and rotary encoder. 
Working on the UI on a touch panel tft display.  Or, I was, until my 
laptop crashed...



On 6/6/22 3:47 PM, Bruce Labitt wrote:


Will try my best.  It's tough to keep your cool when your life, ie. 
your own computer is crapping out.  Much easier, when it is someone 
else's.  Pity the machine is not up at the moment.  Been busy 
transferring my life to an RPI4, which hasn't been as easy as it seems 
like it should.  Writing this on my RPI4-8GB with RaspiOS-64bit.


Laptop in question, with the problem: System76 Oryx6. 32GB RAM, 1TB 
SSD Samsung 970 EVO Plus


HW Details:

=

Intel-10875H CPU, Intel HM470 chipset, MX25L12872F flash chip running 
System76 Open Firmware BIOS,
ITE IT5570E runningSystem76 EC , 
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060, 15.6" 1920x1080@144Hz LCD, LCD panel: Panda 
LM156LF1F (or equivalent)
External video outputs: 1x HDMI, 1x Mini DisplayPort 1.4, 1x 
DisplayPort over USB-C

MemoryUp to 64GB (2x32GB) dual-channel DDR4 SO-DIMMs @ 3200 MHz -- 32 GB

Networking:Gigabit Ethernet,M.2 PCIe/CNVi WiFi/Bluetooth,Intel Wi-Fi 6 
AX200/AX201


Power: 180W (19.5V, 9.23A) DC-in port,Barrel size: 5.5mm (outer), 
2.5mm (inner),Included AC adapter: Chicony A17-180P4A,AC power cord 
type: IEC C5,73Wh 3-cell battery


Sound:Internal speakers & microphone,Combined headphone & microphone 
3.5mm jack,Combined microphone & S/PDIF (optical) 3.5mm jack,HDMI, 
Mini DisplayPort, USB-C DisplayPort audio


Storage:1x M.2 (PCIe NVMe or SATA) - NVME 1 TB installed, 1x M.2 (PCIe 
NVMe only) - empty,MicroSD card reader


USB:3x USB 3.2 Gen 1 Type-A,1x USB Type-C with Thunderbolt 3

Dimensions:15": 35.75cm x 23.8cm x 1.98cm, 1.99kg

=== End HW details 
==


Pop-OS-64 bit.  22.04.  Fresh install over existing Ubuntu 20.04 LTS.

I need to reboot the computer to get the kernel stuff.  Will followup 
with uname -a.


Problem occurs when using USB to program Teensy 4.1 microcontroller.  
Active programs at time of crash = Arduino IDE V 1.8.19, Teensyduino 
1.56 (required to allow Arduino to recognize and program Teensy 
microcontrollers), and Tytools, 0.9.7, which is a tool to program and 
manage Teensy processors.  Prior to 26 May 2022, this all worked 
flawlessly.


And, the above SW does work flawlessly on the RPI4B, running 
RaspberryPiOS-64bit, but not on my laptop.  On my laptop I get system 
crashes.


Only clues I have found are in syslog, and dmesg, but they only show 
some normal USB transactions, then the computer powering up again.


Thanks Ben, for at least answering (humoring?) me.  Been an awful week 
with this crash.  These crashes are so bad, that there's practically 
nothing in the logs.  Last entry is using the USB port.  And the power 
turns off.  This is a stab at it.  Let me know if there's anything 
else I need to add.  Beats me what the crucial details are, if I knew 
them, it would have been fixed by now.


The title of the thread was really about how to go about doing the 
debugging.  The methodology.  It's improbable that anyone else would 
have experienced this particular crash type.



On 6/6/22 14:09, Ben Scott wrote:

On Sun, Jun 5, 2022 at 12:09 PM Bruce Labitt
  wrote:

I am experiencing severe Linux crashes ...

Long meandering messages with critical details hidden throughout and
others omitted entirely will reduce the likelihood that others will
give you help for free.  (Or even when paid.)

In particular, specify what hardware you have, and the software you're
running, in one place.  If it's a scavenger hunt just to find that
information you'll get a poor response.  I didn't see any mention of
the model of machine, for example.  List major components with model
or 

Re: Debugging linux crashes

[Bruce Labitt]

Will try my best.  It's tough to keep your cool when your life, ie. your 
own computer is crapping out. Much easier, when it is someone else's.  
Pity the machine is not up at the moment.  Been busy transferring my 
life to an RPI4, which hasn't been as easy as it seems like it should.  
Writing this on my RPI4-8GB with RaspiOS-64bit.


Laptop in question, with the problem: System76 Oryx6. 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD 
Samsung 970 EVO Plus


HW Details:

=

Intel-10875H CPU, Intel HM470 chipset, MX25L12872F flash chip running 
System76 Open Firmware BIOS,
ITE IT5570E runningSystem76 EC , NVIDIA 
GeForce RTX 2060, 15.6" 1920x1080@144Hz LCD, LCD panel: Panda LM156LF1F 
(or equivalent)
External video outputs: 1x HDMI, 1x Mini DisplayPort 1.4, 1x DisplayPort 
over USB-C

MemoryUp to 64GB (2x32GB) dual-channel DDR4 SO-DIMMs @ 3200 MHz -- 32 GB

Networking:Gigabit Ethernet,M.2 PCIe/CNVi WiFi/Bluetooth,Intel Wi-Fi 6 
AX200/AX201


Power: 180W (19.5V, 9.23A) DC-in port,Barrel size: 5.5mm (outer), 2.5mm 
(inner),Included AC adapter: Chicony A17-180P4A,AC power cord type: IEC 
C5,73Wh 3-cell battery


Sound:Internal speakers & microphone,Combined headphone & microphone 
3.5mm jack,Combined microphone & S/PDIF (optical) 3.5mm jack,HDMI, Mini 
DisplayPort, USB-C DisplayPort audio


Storage:1x M.2 (PCIe NVMe or SATA) - NVME 1 TB installed, 1x M.2 (PCIe 
NVMe only) - empty,MicroSD card reader


USB:3x USB 3.2 Gen 1 Type-A,1x USB Type-C with Thunderbolt 3

Dimensions:15": 35.75cm x 23.8cm x 1.98cm, 1.99kg

=== End HW details 
==


Pop-OS-64 bit.  22.04.  Fresh install over existing Ubuntu 20.04 LTS.

I need to reboot the computer to get the kernel stuff.  Will followup 
with uname -a.


Problem occurs when using USB to program Teensy 4.1 microcontroller.  
Active programs at time of crash = Arduino IDE V 1.8.19, Teensyduino 
1.56 (required to allow Arduino to recognize and program Teensy 
microcontrollers), and Tytools, 0.9.7, which is a tool to program and 
manage Teensy processors.  Prior to 26 May 2022, this all worked flawlessly.


And, the above SW does work flawlessly on the RPI4B, running 
RaspberryPiOS-64bit, but not on my laptop. On my laptop I get system 
crashes.


Only clues I have found are in syslog, and dmesg, but they only show 
some normal USB transactions, then the computer powering up again.


Thanks Ben, for at least answering (humoring?) me.  Been an awful week 
with this crash.  These crashes are so bad, that there's practically 
nothing in the logs.  Last entry is using the USB port.  And the power 
turns off.  This is a stab at it.  Let me know if there's anything else 
I need to add.  Beats me what the crucial details are, if I knew them, 
it would have been fixed by now.


The title of the thread was really about how to go about doing the 
debugging.  The methodology.  It's improbable that anyone else would 
have experienced this particular crash type.



On 6/6/22 14:09, Ben Scott wrote:

On Sun, Jun 5, 2022 at 12:09 PM Bruce Labitt
  wrote:

I am experiencing severe Linux crashes ...

Long meandering messages with critical details hidden throughout and
others omitted entirely will reduce the likelihood that others will
give you help for free.  (Or even when paid.)

In particular, specify what hardware you have, and the software you're
running, in one place.  If it's a scavenger hunt just to find that
information you'll get a poor response.  I didn't see any mention of
the model of machine, for example.  List major components with model
or type (CPU model and speed, RAM size, type and size of storage,
model/type video controller, etc.).  You mention distribution and
version, which is good, but also please provide kernel version.  Also
include steps to reproduce (when it happens, when it doesn't),
commands you've tried, places you've looked for files, error messages
received, etc., etc.

I know you've been around long enough that you've seen plenty of bug
reports and knowledge base articles and the like.  Follow their
example.

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

-- Ben
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Re: Debugging linux crashes

[Ben Scott]

On Sun, Jun 5, 2022 at 12:09 PM Bruce Labitt
 wrote:
> I am experiencing severe Linux crashes ...

Long meandering messages with critical details hidden throughout and
others omitted entirely will reduce the likelihood that others will
give you help for free.  (Or even when paid.)

In particular, specify what hardware you have, and the software you're
running, in one place.  If it's a scavenger hunt just to find that
information you'll get a poor response.  I didn't see any mention of
the model of machine, for example.  List major components with model
or type (CPU model and speed, RAM size, type and size of storage,
model/type video controller, etc.).  You mention distribution and
version, which is good, but also please provide kernel version.  Also
include steps to reproduce (when it happens, when it doesn't),
commands you've tried, places you've looked for files, error messages
received, etc., etc.

I know you've been around long enough that you've seen plenty of bug
reports and knowledge base articles and the like.  Follow their
example.

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

-- Ben
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Re: Debugging linux crashes

[Bruce Labitt]

, date = 2021-02-07

The last error I get is related to USB, then the system hard collapses.  
Nothing else happens.  syslog got a string of \00\00... to it.
dmesg shows the same time for the reboot, the same USB message and 
nothing else.

This has been pretty frustrating.



On 6/5/22 12:08 PM, Bruce Labitt wrote:
> I am experiencing severe Linux crashes, due to some unknown causes.
> They appear to be related to the use of Ty Commander and programming a
> Teensy 4.1 in the Arduino IDE environment, but I am not positive.  All I
> know at the moment, is that the screen freezes and is unresponsive to
> keyboard or mouse inputs.  The freeze lasts about 10 seconds and the
> laptop computer simply powers off.  The error seems to be quite
> repeatable.  It may or may not have started after a Nvidia graphics
> update.  I do know after a normal system update in Ubuntu 20.04 on May
> 26, my system has been subject to this problem.
>
> I have purged nvidia drivers and reinstalled them.  Didn't matter.
> Syslog and journalctl really didn't seem to show anything interesting,
> at least to my unsophisticated gaze.  Have been a wits end.  In the
> interim, I moved a lot of my "life" off the laptop onto an RPI4B-8GB
> running Raspberry Pi OS 64 bits.  Been a difficult transition,
> recovering my capabilities, computing-wise.
>
> I backed up my whole laptop, and decided, perhaps insanely, to do a
> fresh install of Pop-OS 22.04.  With the base install, I ran into the
> same darn wifi issue that initially plagued me with this laptop.  After
> 2 days of seaching, I found the answer to the slow and constantly
> rebooting iwlwifi card was to set powersave =2, which for some darned
> reason means powersave is off!  I am amazed that this issue still exists
> this day and age, I found mentions of it over all Linux distros.  The
> issue is the wrong microcode is being sent to the wifi adapter, and the
> adapter kernel panics when it receives illegal commands from the Linux
> OS.  You can see it in the syslog very clearly.  I changed the powersave
> to 2, and the wifi adapter seemingly works fine now.  This is the Intel
> WiFi 6 AX200/AX201.
>
> Anyways, even with this brand new installation, and fixed wifi, my
> computer crashes with the combination of Arduino IDE 1.8.19, Teensyduino
> 1.56, and Ty Commander 0.9.7.
>
> However, I found that if I use Arduino IDE, and Teensyduino 1.56 only, I
> have been able to program my Teensy 4.1 without crashing. Unfortunately,
> I'd like to use Ty Commander to enable multiple Teensy's to be debugged.
>
> I'm looking for some suggestions on how to proceed.
>
> Is there a way to get or retain more information on system crashes?  I
> don't even know the true cause of the crash yet.  For some reason, I am
> having difficulty opening the kernel log.  Is it a text file?  Or do I
> need a special viewer?  I can open the syslog without issue.  In Pop OS
> I don't see multiple or older versions of logs.  I don't know why.
> Often older logs have a .0 or .1 extension.  The log I want to see is
> not the one created after the boot following the crash, it is the one
> before!
>
> I'm not sure I really have the skills to deal with linux-crashdump.  I
> haven't seen a step by step procedure that I feel comfortable enough to
> proceed with.  The references use a lot of words, re: fiddling with
> grub, not so many pictures, and I don't want to really go there without
> a really complete script. Is this the path I need to take?
>
> I could compile Ty Commander with debug binaries, I just need to type
> out:  cmake -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Debug ../..
>
> Can I run Ty Commander with valgrind, or something like that would
> prevent yet another total crash, but perhaps capture something useful?
>
>
>
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Re: Need help with IAX2 on Asterisk using the voip.ms provider

[Bruce Dawson]

It turns out there's an undocumented (at least I could not find it) 
restriction on IAX accounts with voip.ms - you can have only one IAX 
account (i.e. DID) per IP address. (I found this out from voip.ms' 
technical support.) With SIP, you can have as many DIDs as you want. So 
I've converted two of my three IAX accounts to SIP. That got two 
account/DIDs working, but not the last one - but I think I have other 
problems with one that's not working.


I'm still working with voip.ms on the one DID that's not working.  Its 
sort-of an international number (US Virgin Islands) and I think there 
may be some tariff restrictions on it that no one knows about. But I 
could be wrong. It took many iterations with voip.ms support to find out 
about the IAX restriction.


I do like voip.ms's services, and they have a technical support staff 
that actually *tries* to answer the question. Its just frustrating until 
you find the right person.


--Bruce

On 3/3/22 09:39, Matt Minuti wrote:
I set up an Asterisk server running on FreeBSD for a company probably 
8-10 years ago, using Vitelity (back when they offered services for 
brick-and-mortar small businesses). I believe it used IAX2, and the 
actual phones were bottom-of-the-line Grandstream DECT cordless units 
that connected to the Asterisk box through SIP over SSL (probably with 
a self-signed cert knowing me). That knowledge is probably out of date 
now, unfortunately.


For my office, I'm using voip.ms  and having the 
phones directly connect to their servers via subaccounts. It's working 
great - I only have one DID hooked up, but depending on what the 
caller presses in the IVR (voice menu thing), it rings different 
sub-accounts in groups. I expected it to be a holdover solution until 
I had the time to set up a proper Asterisk install, but it's working 
well enough that I'm likely to keep it. That said, I initially had a 
lot of difficulty keeping the registration attached to the hardphones, 
while the softphones never had issues. Although it makes absolutely no 
sense, I want to say that there was a codec incompatibility, because 
once I turned off one of the codecs (forget which) on a hardphone, 
that hardphone has maintained registration forever.


Have you checked the guides on the voip.ms  wiki? I 
found them to be pretty helpful, particularly when I looked at the 
guides for hardware I don't actually have, so that I could 
cross-reference and get a sense as to what MUST be set versus what is 
flexible.


On Sun, Feb 20, 2022 at 6:47 PM Bruce Dawson  wrote:

Anyone have any experience with Asterisk (the VOIP PBX software)?

How about using IAX2 for communicating with a DID provider?

How about with using the 'VOIP.ms' DID provider?

I just have a few phones and Zoiper apps here, but lately, every
time I
change the dialplan, I seem to lose the IAX connection to the
voip.ms 
servers. (Not lose the network connection, but the registration
and the
ability to receive calls on my DIDs (I have about 4).

I'm at the point where I might pay someone to help solve some of the
problems.

--Bruce

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Re: Need help with IAX2 on Asterisk using the voip.ms provider

[Matt Minuti]

I set up an Asterisk server running on FreeBSD for a company probably 8-10
years ago, using Vitelity (back when they offered services for
brick-and-mortar small businesses). I believe it used IAX2, and the actual
phones were bottom-of-the-line Grandstream DECT cordless units that
connected to the Asterisk box through SIP over SSL (probably with a
self-signed cert knowing me). That knowledge is probably out of date now,
unfortunately.

For my office, I'm using voip.ms and having the phones directly connect to
their servers via subaccounts. It's working great - I only have one DID
hooked up, but depending on what the caller presses in the IVR (voice menu
thing), it rings different sub-accounts in groups. I expected it to be a
holdover solution until I had the time to set up a proper Asterisk install,
but it's working well enough that I'm likely to keep it. That said, I
initially had a lot of difficulty keeping the registration attached to the
hardphones, while the softphones never had issues. Although it makes
absolutely no sense, I want to say that there was a codec incompatibility,
because once I turned off one of the codecs (forget which) on a hardphone,
that hardphone has maintained registration forever.

Have you checked the guides on the voip.ms wiki? I found them to be pretty
helpful, particularly when I looked at the guides for hardware I don't
actually have, so that I could cross-reference and get a sense as to what
MUST be set versus what is flexible.

On Sun, Feb 20, 2022 at 6:47 PM Bruce Dawson  wrote:

> Anyone have any experience with Asterisk (the VOIP PBX software)?
>
> How about using IAX2 for communicating with a DID provider?
>
> How about with using the 'VOIP.ms' DID provider?
>
> I just have a few phones and Zoiper apps here, but lately, every time I
> change the dialplan, I seem to lose the IAX connection to the voip.ms
> servers. (Not lose the network connection, but the registration and the
> ability to receive calls on my DIDs (I have about 4).
>
> I'm at the point where I might pay someone to help solve some of the
> problems.
>
> --Bruce
>
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Re: ZFS vs btfrs

[Tom Buskey]

I've been happy running a home NAS since 2001ish on Solaris, Opensolaris,
Linux.

The best thing I did was switch from mdadm/LVM to ZFS so I could change
"partitions" on the fly.  Auto snapshotting every hour/day/week/month was a
nice addition I missed from Netapp.  The ECC & self correction of ZFS is
very important to me.  ZFS has survived power hits, losing a core on a dual
core CPU (!) and bad ZoL upgrades (early CentOS versions).  I used to make
the OS use its own RAID1 (not ZFS), but I don't need the uptime vs power.
I can easily reinstall the OS again.

I had RAIDZ and upgraded my disks from gigabytes up to terabytes a few
times.  I now use 2 disk RAID1 blocks of 4TB or 6TB drives.  When I want to
upgrade, I only need to buy 2 drives at a time.  4TB has been a sweet
spot for *me*.  $/GB, availability of non-SMR drives and needing only 1
parity to keep 4TB safe for the data.

Initially, I put drives into the system.  I found SATA cages that put 4
drives into where the floppies would go are better.

When I ran out of space, you can run regular SATA cables outside the box to
a drive.  No special eSATA needed.  I used an old PC chassis w/ its own
power supply to power the drives.  I've since found cages that have fans
and use them w/ an external power supply.  There are SATA cards w/ the
single connector to 4 sata ports that cut down clutter.

I share filesystems as NFS, SMB and a web server.  My chromebook or android
can use those or SFTP mount to get to things.
I have KVM to run a music server, jellyfin, search engine and ssh gateway.
I can move those VMs to a different system and NFS/SMB mount the NAS.

jellyfin replaces plex & does DLNA/uPNP.  I'm planning on paperless-ng and
a photo organizer in VMs on another system.

I have a 3 GHz sandy lake quad cpu with 24 GB RAM which was an upgrade from
an athlon dual core w/ 8GB and a bad core :-) that worked well for years
with only the SSH gateway VM.  I have a UPS that will auto shutdown after a
5 minute power loss.  Because that's what a UPS is for: to ensure a clean
shutdown if a generator or the power grid isn't supplying power.

btrfs looks good (only with RAID1 IMO) but I'll stick with ZFS.  When I
installed Fedora on my 10yr old i5 with 8GB RAM, it chose btrfs.  It was
much slower than the previous Fedora with ext4 so I reinstalled it with
ext4.  I don't see much point in using btrfs/zfs on a single drive.

On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 11:26 AM Ben Scott  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> We haven't had a really good flamewar ^W discussion on here in far too
> long...
>
> SUMMARY
>
> Btfrs vs ZFS. I was wondering if others would like to share their
> opinions on either or both?  Or something else entirely?  (Maybe you
> just don't feel alive if you're not compiling your kernel from
> patches?)  Especially cool would be recent comparisons of two or more.
>
> I'll provide an info dump of my plans below, but I do so mainly as
> discussion-fodder.  Don't feel obligated to address my scenario in
> particular.  Of course, commentary on anything in particular that
> seems like a good/bad/cool idea is still welcome.
>
> RECEIVED WISDOM
>
> This is the stuff every article says.  I rarely find anything that goes
> deeper.
>
> - ZFS has been around/stable/whatever longer
> - btfrs has been on Linux longer
> - btfrs is GPL, ZFS is CDDL or whatever
> - Licensing kept ZFS off Linux for a while
> - ZFS is available on major Linux distros now
> - People say one is faster, but disagree on which one
> - Oracle is a bag of dicks
> - ZFS is easier to pronounce
>
> For both, by coupling the filesystem layer and the block layer, we get
> a lot of advantages, especially for things like snapshots and
> deduplication.  The newcomers also get you things like checksums for
> every block, fault-tolerance over heterogenous physical devices, more
> encryption and compression options.  Faster, bigger, longer, lower,
> wider, etc., etc.  More superlatives than any other filesystem.
>
> MY SCENARIO
>
> I'm going to be building a new home server soon.  Historically I've
> used Linux RAID and LVM and EXT2/3/4/5/102, but all the cool kids are
> using smarter filesystems these days.  I should really get with the
> times.  They do seem to confer a lot of advantages, at least on paper.
>
> USE CASES
>
> User community is me and my girlfriend and a motley collection of
> computing devices from multiple millenia.  Administrator community is
> me.
>
> Mostly plain old network file storage.  Mixed use within that.  I'm a
> data hoarder.
>
> All sorts of stuff I've downloaded over the years, some not even from
> the Internet (ZMODEM baby!).  So large numbers of large write-once
> files.  "Large" has changed over the years, from something that fills
> a floppy diskette to something that fills a DVD, but they don't change
> once written.  ISO images, tarballs, music and photo collections
> (FLAC, MP3, JPEG).
>
> Also large numbers of small write-once files.  I've got 20 GB of mail
> archives in maildir format, 

Re: ZFS vs btfrs

[Ken D'Ambrosio]

On 2022-02-24 12:42, Ian Kelling wrote:
>> So what I do:
>> 
>> * Create a copy on the destination host.
>> * Snapshot it.
>> * Mount the snapshot as my rsync backup destination.
>> * And make a snapshot of _that_.
> I'm confused by those bullets, I understand the general idea though.

Sorry.  It's been a Hell of a week.  What I _should_ have written:
* Create a copy, via rsync, on the destination host.  This is my 
"origin"
* Create a CoW snapshot of the origin -- giving snapshots datestamps
* rsync to the new snapshot
* create a (datestamped) snapshot of the newly-rsync'd-to snapshot
* rsync to *that*
* Rinse and repeat daily

And, finally, delete -- or, rather, "btrfs sub del" -- whatever 
snapshots are outside of my retention period.

-K
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