Re: Fairpoint files for Chapter 11
I guess I'm naive but it irritates me that the NH PUC web site says: The Telecommunications Division assists the Commission in regulating the $800M telecommunications industry in New Hampshire. Registered public utilities include incumbent local exchange carriers (FairPoint and seven independent telephone companies), approximately 30 active competitive local exchange carriers, and over 100 in-state toll providers. The Commission does not regulate cable television, wireless/cellular, out-of-state long distance or Internet service providers. This has been, to me, a very interesting thread. Does anyone know of a forum with a similar ongoing conversation about telecomm in NH? Maybe we should fork one. Or is the subject automatically 'on track'? Mark On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 6:12 PM, Bill McGonigle b...@bfccomputing.com wrote: On 10/27/2009 08:11 PM, Jon 'maddog' Hall wrote: I went to a presentation the other night where a person from Fairpoint said that they had just put in a new Terabit switch as one of three they had installed in New Hampshire. They are going after the broadband business, and will probably lump POTS on top of that. They indicated that Verizon had not done much in the way of real improvement to rural areas (as opposed to Nashua or other cities) for a long time. They only ever expected to make money in the video (over ADSL2) business. Nobody ever thought they had enough reserve capital, it was a debt-leveraged play, and a crashed economy certainly bollixed their business plan. The trouble with Chapter 11, though, is who's going to extend them credit from the vendor sphere? They're holding a license to defraud their creditors. 'Cash on the barrel' would seem to be the acceptable terms. Is anybody aware of any actual video roll-out that's been done? One would think they'd have gone after revenue immediately, but that seems not to be the case, at least in my area. Maybe if this does crash and burn the PUC will get out of the monopoly-granting business. A man can dream, can't he? -Bill -- Bill McGonigle, Owner BFC Computing, LLC http://bfccomputing.com/ Telephone: +1.603.448.4440 Email, IM, VOIP: b...@bfccomputing.com VCard: http://bfccomputing.com/vcard/bill.vcf Social networks: bill_mcgonigle/bill.mcgonigle ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/ -- “Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.” – Voltaire ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Fairpoint files for Chapter 11
My bet (and hope), is that if we have another nameplate change, it will be a healthy regional baby bell, who understands rural markets, and who is technically savvy and well managed. That was supposed to be FairPoint, or so the supporters of the sale maintained. ;-) Well, if the PUCs have learned anything from this fiasco, they must do better with do diligence, and stop listening to marketing folks. Gerry On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 9:44 PM, Ben Scott dragonh...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 8:44 PM, Gerry Hull ge...@telosity.com wrote: Do you guys know that Fairpoint does not offer an SLA on Business DSL? Not in NH, Not ever. Can you imagine that? I'm honestly more surprised by the alternative. I've rarely seen a mass market high-speed Internet connection (DSL, cable, etc.) that had an SLA that was worth a damn. Comcast's SLA basically says that *if* they confirm unavailability, they will rebate *prorated*. So if the line falls off the poll on Monday, the guy with the truck finally makes it on Wednesday, and has it fixed on Thursday, I get maybe $2 or $4 off. If trip to Google is 150 ms RTT and 15% packet loss, I get nothing. My bet (and hope), is that if we have another nameplate change, it will be a healthy regional baby bell, who understands rural markets, and who is technically savvy and well managed. That was supposed to be FairPoint, or so the supporters of the sale maintained. ;-) -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/ ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Fairpoint files for Chapter 11
On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 10:36:15 -0400 Gerry Hull ge...@telosity.com wrote: Well, if the PUCs have learned anything from this fiasco, they must do better with do diligence, and stop listening to marketing folks. Of course hindsight is more perceptive than foresight, but one has to wonder if there was any diligence or if they felt compelled to grasp at the straw and pray. From the folks that brought you Seabrook might be one way to look at it. Ed Lawson Ham Callsign: K1VP PGP Key ID: 1591EAD3 PGP Key Fingerprint: 79A1 CDC3 EF3D 7F93 1D28 2D42 58E4 2287 1591 EAD3 ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Fairpoint files for Chapter 11
On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 11:15 AM, Ed lawson elaw...@grizzy.com wrote: Well, if the PUCs have learned anything from this fiasco, they must do better with do diligence, and stop listening to marketing folks. Of course hindsight is more perceptive than foresight, but one has to wonder if there was any diligence or if they felt compelled to grasp at the straw and pray. Well, there were official documents submitted by the Maine Office of the Consumer Advocate that claimed FairPoint did not have anywhere near the capital backing needed to both buy the northern New England PSTN *and* sustain operations. They had moderately detailed numbers and projections. In other words: The PUC was told this would happen, but did it anyway. -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Fairpoint files for Chapter 11
On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 2:53 PM, Ben Scott dragonh...@gmail.com wrote: Well, there were official documents submitted by the Maine Office of the Consumer Advocate that claimed FairPoint did not have anywhere near the capital backing needed to both buy the northern New England PSTN *and* sustain operations. They had moderately detailed numbers and projections. In other words: The PUC was told this would happen, but did it anyway. I think they had lots of data, presented by MANY people who where against the approval. I'm just glad I have TDS in Lyndeborough. :-D My in the middle of the woods 6Mb DSL kicks arse. :-D -- -- Thomas ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Fairpoint files for Chapter 11
Ed lawson writes: Of course hindsight is more perceptive than foresight, (but I am responding to nobody in particular) Remember, there was even some sentiment on *this very list* that it would be better if Fairpoint was running all of this rural telco gear. The fact of the matter is that ~1.5 years ago the collective we had a choice as to who should run all of this stuff: a company that showed no interest in upgrading any of this telco gear and really wanted to get out of this business altogether, and another company who wanted to get into this business but it wasn't clear that they had the money and/or the experience to run this stuff. This wasn't a pleasing set of alternatives back then. Of course, now the situation is clearly worse. Regards, --kevin -- GnuPG ID: B280F24EGod, I loved that Pontiac. alumni.unh.edu!kdc-- Tom Waits http://kdc-blog.blogspot.com/ ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Fairpoint files for Chapter 11
On 10/27/2009 08:11 PM, Jon 'maddog' Hall wrote: I went to a presentation the other night where a person from Fairpoint said that they had just put in a new Terabit switch as one of three they had installed in New Hampshire. They are going after the broadband business, and will probably lump POTS on top of that. They indicated that Verizon had not done much in the way of real improvement to rural areas (as opposed to Nashua or other cities) for a long time. They only ever expected to make money in the video (over ADSL2) business. Nobody ever thought they had enough reserve capital, it was a debt-leveraged play, and a crashed economy certainly bollixed their business plan. The trouble with Chapter 11, though, is who's going to extend them credit from the vendor sphere? They're holding a license to defraud their creditors. 'Cash on the barrel' would seem to be the acceptable terms. Is anybody aware of any actual video roll-out that's been done? One would think they'd have gone after revenue immediately, but that seems not to be the case, at least in my area. Maybe if this does crash and burn the PUC will get out of the monopoly-granting business. A man can dream, can't he? -Bill -- Bill McGonigle, Owner BFC Computing, LLC http://bfccomputing.com/ Telephone: +1.603.448.4440 Email, IM, VOIP: b...@bfccomputing.com VCard: http://bfccomputing.com/vcard/bill.vcf Social networks: bill_mcgonigle/bill.mcgonigle ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Fairpoint files for Chapter 11
On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 6:29 PM, Dan Miller rambi@gmail.com wrote: Needless to say, I am not surprised: http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091027/NEWS01/910279998/-1/OPINION01 My personal opinion is this would be a good time for Verizon to come in and buy back the lines. They will get it cheaper than what they sold it for. It would be a win-win for Verizon. No cost of rolling out fiber for a year, receive thousands of dollars from a sell-buy of landlines in New England. And don't forget more customers. Fairpoint didn't roll out any fiber I don't believe. They just rolled stuff out using where Verizon had already rolled it out to the poles I'm pretty sure. -- -- Thomas ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Fairpoint files for Chapter 11
My personal opinion is this would be a good time for Verizon to come in and buy back the lines. They will get it cheaper than what they sold it for. Verizon would not want the lines back if you gave them to Verizon. Verizon does not want the rural land-line business. They have been selling it off as fast as they can. It costs too much and they can make more money just by putting up towers and selling wireless services. Fairpoint didn't roll out any fiber I don't believe. They just rolled stuff out using where Verizon had already rolled it out to the poles I'm pretty sure. I went to a presentation the other night where a person from Fairpoint said that they had just put in a new Terabit switch as one of three they had installed in New Hampshire. They are going after the broadband business, and will probably lump POTS on top of that. They indicated that Verizon had not done much in the way of real improvement to rural areas (as opposed to Nashua or other cities) for a long time. Nope, I really can not see Verizon coming back in, unless you looked at massive raises in customer rates. md ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Fairpoint files for Chapter 11
On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 6:29 PM, Dan Miller rambi@gmail.com wrote: It would be a win-win for Verizon. Verizon doesn't want the lines they still own in the Eastern half of Massachusetts. Verizon wants high population density metro areas only. VZ would prolly try to sell them off, except the Mass PUC isn't the spineless/corrupt organization the NH PUC apparently is. -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Fairpoint files for Chapter 11
On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 8:38 PM, Ben Scott dragonh...@gmail.com wrote: Verizon doesn't want the lines they still own in the Eastern half of Massachusetts. s/Eastern/Western/ -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Fairpoint files for Chapter 11
On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 6:29 PM, Dan Miller rambi@gmail.com wrote: It would be a win-win for Verizon. No cost of rolling out fiber for a year, receive thousands of dollars from a sell-buy of landlines in New England. And don't forget more customers. Verizon sold their copper to get away from a toxic asset. Even if it were free, it would be more trouble than it is worth. Fiber (Or Fibre for you Vikings fans) only makes sense in sufficiently dense areas. Verizon is sitting on the areas they can make good profits rolling out fiber and dumping the rest of the aging, under maintained copper as fast as they can find suckers to buy it. They know as well as anyone that wireless is arbitrarily more profitable to provide all the residential services and most of the business services they could ever want to offer. 1/5th of the people in the US don't even have landlines any more, and on the flip side 1/5th only have land lines. Personally, I've only got a Comcast phone myself because it only added $5 to my bill when bundled with Internet and it offers a little bit of piece of mind having a backup phone with little kids in the house. In another decade, landlines will be obsolete and voice will not be sold as if it is anything other than just another data service. Verizon's only obstacle is in slowing this down enough and pretending like it is not true long enough to find enough suckers to buy the copper plant without enough density for a pure-bits fiber play. Sprint cut the cord, so to speak, a long time ago, and ATT is close. A few POTS company still don't get it, but they'll learn one way or another eventually. Cable companies have a similar problem. They can't make a profit without preimum services, you're not going to get people to pay for premium when they can get it all on the Internet cheaper or free. Wireless is the only cost effective way to deliver pure-bits. Premium services are soon to be gone, but they are whipping that horse as hard as they can because they don't have anything else. Even Fiber has this same problem. Unless you are in major metros with enough density to be profitable in bits only, these systems need premium service to survive as well. In 5-10 years, when I can pay $50-100/mo for my entire family to have a personal data device with a 10Mbps connection that doubles as a wifi access point (all available now in some areas for a little more money), then there is just no reason for me to pay for any other services. I'm expecting this to happen where I live, and I'm in Vermont. An odd part of Vermont with access to a Sprint tower, but Vermont nonetheless. =) ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Fairpoint files for Chapter 11
Do you guys know that Fairpoint does not offer an SLA on Business DSL? Not in NH, Not ever. Can you imagine that? My local ISP has been (temporarily) buying a bunch of DSL from Fairpoint. When a (large) number of DSL lines went down, FairPoint could not find the customer data on the ISP!!! After a week of no service, they finally got hold of a manager, who said he was unaware of any open tickets ! ! ! Terabit Switch I doubt many of Fairpoint's people would know one if they fell on it. Fairpoint's play for the Northern New England market was a pure business play when borrowing was cheap. They are no better technically managed than any other regional provider. With the cost of money these days, as well as the state of the economy, I doubt they will make it even with bankruptcy protection. Verizon did a terrible job updating Northern New England's land lines. Yes, DSL can reach many localities, but there are many, many more which just do not have the copper. Verizon, love it or hate it, is managed well financially. Those bean counters won't come back to NNE, even at 10c on the dollar -- that's my bet. My bet (and hope), is that if we have another nameplate change, it will be a healthy regional baby bell, who understands rural markets, and who is technically savvy and well managed. Perhaps this is too much to ask for. Thank Goodness I get my dial tone from a VOIP provider! Gerry On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 8:11 PM, Jon 'maddog' Hall mad...@li.org wrote: My personal opinion is this would be a good time for Verizon to come in and buy back the lines. They will get it cheaper than what they sold it for. Verizon would not want the lines back if you gave them to Verizon. Verizon does not want the rural land-line business. They have been selling it off as fast as they can. It costs too much and they can make more money just by putting up towers and selling wireless services. Fairpoint didn't roll out any fiber I don't believe. They just rolled stuff out using where Verizon had already rolled it out to the poles I'm pretty sure. I went to a presentation the other night where a person from Fairpoint said that they had just put in a new Terabit switch as one of three they had installed in New Hampshire. They are going after the broadband business, and will probably lump POTS on top of that. They indicated that Verizon had not done much in the way of real improvement to rural areas (as opposed to Nashua or other cities) for a long time. Nope, I really can not see Verizon coming back in, unless you looked at massive raises in customer rates. md ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/ ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Fairpoint files for Chapter 11
On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 8:44 PM, Gerry Hull ge...@telosity.com wrote: Do you guys know that Fairpoint does not offer an SLA on Business DSL? Not in NH, Not ever. Can you imagine that? I'm honestly more surprised by the alternative. I've rarely seen a mass market high-speed Internet connection (DSL, cable, etc.) that had an SLA that was worth a damn. Comcast's SLA basically says that *if* they confirm unavailability, they will rebate *prorated*. So if the line falls off the poll on Monday, the guy with the truck finally makes it on Wednesday, and has it fixed on Thursday, I get maybe $2 or $4 off. If trip to Google is 150 ms RTT and 15% packet loss, I get nothing. My bet (and hope), is that if we have another nameplate change, it will be a healthy regional baby bell, who understands rural markets, and who is technically savvy and well managed. That was supposed to be FairPoint, or so the supporters of the sale maintained. ;-) -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
