Re: New Hampshire legislation to consider Open Source (adding a cross post to dlslug)
On Wednesday 25 January 2006 03:23 pm, Fred wrote: > On Tuesday 10 January 2006 10:39, Richard Soule wrote: > ... > > > Some things that can help: Be a HUB (Historically Underutilized > > Business, usually women or minority owned with bonus points for > > being both), > > I might have thought this would come up due to this being the > government we're dealing with. > > Personally, I consider it condescending to land a contract on the > basis of being a "minority" or "woman". I agree, but you cannot get out of it! At least that was my experience in 1992. The Federal Acquisition Regulations state "If you have or have reason to suspect you have ancestors in one of the following groups < names about 50, including American Indian and French Canadian > check the square below." The regulations eventually go on to say how long you must spend in jail and how much you will be fined for not answering all questions truthfully. With the checked box you are irrevocably a "disadvantaged minority". To not check the box would be submitting false information. I asked the contracting agency how to get out of it, but they said there was no way, it was my right - besides they had a minority contract set-aside to meet. Not trusting their self interest, I contacted the NH Small Business Administration. Upon explaining no more than my one-man company and my full-blood Indian great-grandmother, there was an immediate "Yes, you are certainly a disadvantaged minority". I protested that I did not meet the "disadvantaged" criterion. She asked, "Can you walk into a bank and get a $5 million loan?" "Well, no," I admitted. "Well, then you are disadvantaged." So, the bureaucrats have expanded the category until it became meaningless - with a wink from Congress, I might guess. Some contract officers use the expansion to avoid choosing minorities they don't like. More often though, in my experience, it allows them to assure that the set-aside goes to companies that will provide a good value for the taxpayer - putting qualifications ahead of ethnicity or race. Jim Kuzdrall ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: New Hampshire legislation to consider Open Source (adding a cross post to dlslug)
Fred said: > On Tuesday 10 January 2006 10:39, Richard Soule wrote: > ... >> Some things that can help: Be a HUB (Historically Underutilized >> Business, usually women or minority owned with bonus points for being >> both), > > I might have thought this would come up due to this being the government > we're dealing with. > > Personally, I consider it condescending to land a contract on the basis of > being a "minority" or "woman". > > Besides, I don't know how one *becomes* a "minority" or "woman" if one is > not already. A former client of mine promoted a new CEO, who was a disabled, Native American/Hispanic woman, for that purpose. (She was a good manager too, but that was a bonus in their eyes.) The company simply had to be owned/managed thusly. While it might have been condescending, they did get a few million dollars to assuage such pangs. And they did fulfill the contract properly. The government got what they wanted, for less than Wang quoted (which gives you an idea how long ago this was). So, whether the new CEO really played a part in the award, we'll never know. They just considered it slanting the odds a bit. -- Dan Jenkins ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Rastech Inc., Bedford, NH --- 1-603-206-9951 *** Technical Support Excellence for over a Quarter Century ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: New Hampshire legislation to consider Open Source (adding a cross post to dlslug)
On 1/25/06, Fred <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Personally, I consider it condescending to land a contract on the basis of > being a "minority" or "woman". Personally, I hate Lima beans. -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: New Hampshire legislation to consider Open Source (adding a cross post to dlslug)
On Tuesday 10 January 2006 10:39, Richard Soule wrote: ... > Some things that can help: Be a HUB (Historically Underutilized > Business, usually women or minority owned with bonus points for being > both), I might have thought this would come up due to this being the government we're dealing with. Personally, I consider it condescending to land a contract on the basis of being a "minority" or "woman". Let every *individual* succeed on the basis of his or her merits alone. Not what's hanging between the legs and not what the dermal chromatics are. Besides, I don't know how one *becomes* a "minority" or "woman" if one is not already. I suppose one can take the shoe polish or gender change approach! If you want the government contract that badly, GO FOR IT! -Fred ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: New Hampshire legislation to consider Open Source (adding a cross post to dlslug)
On Jan 10, 2006, at 10:25, Jon maddog Hall wrote: Considering the bill going forward, perhaps the issue of "open source solutions aren't usually considered" is old news. Yes, I'm aware of the thread topic. Note the use of past tense in my statements - I'm suggesting the RFP process may have some trouble getting off the ground initially because companies who focus on open solutions have had little motivation to be state-approved vendors in NH (it's government - there's paperwork - we don't do it for recreation). This bill should change all that. But opponents of the bill may suggest, "but we don't have any vendors on our list - why are you pushing this"? Hence, the Catch-22. As a bill like this could be the first step in following the Massachusetts Open model, I would be surprised if there were no opponents to this bill. I'd love to be surprised, of course. What may ameliorate this situation is that IBM is probably on the list, perhaps Novell too. Novell has a development center here in Lebanon. I don't expect IBM would underbid the have-Access-will-travel folks, but it's a start. -Bill - Bill McGonigle, Owner Work: 603.448.4440 BFC Computing, LLC Home: 603.448.1668 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cell: 603.252.2606 http://www.bfccomputing.com/Page: 603.442.1833 Blog: http://blog.bfccomputing.com/ VCard: http://bfccomputing.com/vcard/bill.vcf ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: New Hampshire legislation to consider Open Source (adding a cross post to dlslug)
Getting on the list can be difficult. Most states have a 'Statewide Contract' which means negotiating with the state purchasing folks. They often demand special concessions (you can never charge us more than you charge any other customer), access to internal sales information (so they know that they are getting 'the best price'), and generally make the process difficult. They are very tough negotiators and often make their initial demands totally unreasonable so that you just give up. Some things that can help: Be a HUB (Historically Underutilized Business, usually women or minority owned with bonus points for being both), work with (subcontract to) someone who is already on both the approved vendors list and on the statewide contract, and finally have a bunch of contract lawyers and negotiators to handle the purchasing department. This being government you will also tend to get good mileage out of lobbyists (who generally are not cheap) and/or friendly politicians (who should be freely accessible, but lately have in the news for not being so freely accessible). Good luck! Rich Bill McGonigle wrote: On Jan 10, 2006, at 08:48, Python wrote: However, I suspect another issue is the RFP process commonly used for government purchases. Many open source projects have no sales or marketing arm to deal with an RFP. Does anyone know if that really is an obstacle to getting open source to be considered in government? This may be a catch-22. I've considered applying for the approved vendors list (there's a real name for that) but was told open source solutions aren't usually considered so I didn't. -Bill - Bill McGonigle, Owner Work: 603.448.4440 BFC Computing, LLC Home: 603.448.1668 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cell: 603.252.2606 http://www.bfccomputing.com/Page: 603.442.1833 Blog: http://blog.bfccomputing.com/ VCard: http://bfccomputing.com/vcard/bill.vcf ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: New Hampshire legislation to consider Open Source (adding a cross post to dlslug)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said: > This may be a catch-22. I've considered applying for the approved vendors > list (there's a real name for that) but was told open source solutions > aren't usually considered so I didn't. Bill, Considering the bill going forward, perhaps the issue of "open source solutions aren't usually considered" is old news. md -- Jon "maddog" Hall Executive Director Linux International(R) email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 80 Amherst St. Voice: +1.603.672.4557 Amherst, N.H. 03031-3032 U.S.A. WWW: http://www.li.org Board Member: Uniforum Association, USENIX Association (R)Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries. (R)Linux International is a registered trademark in the USA used pursuant to a license from Linux Mark Institute, authorized licensor of Linus Torvalds, owner of the Linux trademark on a worldwide basis (R)UNIX is a registered trademark of The Open Group in the USA and other countries. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: New Hampshire legislation to consider Open Source (adding a cross post to dlslug)
On Jan 10, 2006, at 08:48, Python wrote: However, I suspect another issue is the RFP process commonly used for government purchases. Many open source projects have no sales or marketing arm to deal with an RFP. Does anyone know if that really is an obstacle to getting open source to be considered in government? This may be a catch-22. I've considered applying for the approved vendors list (there's a real name for that) but was told open source solutions aren't usually considered so I didn't. -Bill - Bill McGonigle, Owner Work: 603.448.4440 BFC Computing, LLC Home: 603.448.1668 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cell: 603.252.2606 http://www.bfccomputing.com/Page: 603.442.1833 Blog: http://blog.bfccomputing.com/ VCard: http://bfccomputing.com/vcard/bill.vcf ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: New Hampshire legislation to consider Open Source (adding a cross post to dlslug)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I sent a note to Roy Maxfield, my rep and a sponsoring committee-member, but I haven't heard anything back. - --Bruce Python wrote: |On Mon, 2006-01-09 at 14:35 -0500, Ed Lawson wrote: | |>On Mon, 9 Jan 2006 13:53:30 -0500 |>Ted Roche <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: |> |>> |>>"New Potential Legislation |>>An Act establishing a committee to study requiring NH state |>>government to consider using open source software when |> |>acquiring new |> |>>software has been introduced. |> |>Hopefully this will pass | | |I kicked out an email to the Lebanon reps and got a phone call back from |Laurie Harding who is on the legislative committee considering the bill. |She asked me to produce a write-up providing some background |information. I plan to steal ideas and bullet points from the DLSLUG |library book, "Succeeding with Open Source". However, I suspect another |issue is the RFP process commonly used for government purchases. Many |open source projects have no sales or marketing arm to deal with an RFP. |Does anyone know if that really is an obstacle to getting open source to |be considered in government? | |Also, Susan Almy replied to my email and said that Charlotte Quimby of |Plainfield is also on the legislative committee. | -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFDw74k/TBScWXa5IgRAmBRAJ9PCOTq4E9xqmOgtUjuKi+QQALxzwCdGicM juS/SGlKHf5ZpTizXaDlTsU= =2nPj -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: New Hampshire legislation to consider Open Source (adding a cross post to dlslug)
While Open Source projects do not have a sales and marketing arm to deal with RFPs, corporations like Red Hat, Novell, IBM, HP, Dell, Sun and others do. To a lesser extent, VARs, Distributors and Resellers also do answers to RFPs. md -- Jon "maddog" Hall Executive Director Linux International(R) email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 80 Amherst St. Voice: +1.603.672.4557 Amherst, N.H. 03031-3032 U.S.A. WWW: http://www.li.org Board Member: Uniforum Association, USENIX Association (R)Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries. (R)Linux International is a registered trademark in the USA used pursuant to a license from Linux Mark Institute, authorized licensor of Linus Torvalds, owner of the Linux trademark on a worldwide basis (R)UNIX is a registered trademark of The Open Group in the USA and other countries. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: New Hampshire legislation to consider Open Source (adding a cross post to dlslug)
On Mon, 2006-01-09 at 14:35 -0500, Ed Lawson wrote: > On Mon, 9 Jan 2006 13:53:30 -0500 > Ted Roche <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > "New Potential Legislation > > An Act establishing a committee to study requiring NH state > > government to consider using open source software when > acquiring new > > software has been introduced. > > Hopefully this will pass I kicked out an email to the Lebanon reps and got a phone call back from Laurie Harding who is on the legislative committee considering the bill. She asked me to produce a write-up providing some background information. I plan to steal ideas and bullet points from the DLSLUG library book, "Succeeding with Open Source". However, I suspect another issue is the RFP process commonly used for government purchases. Many open source projects have no sales or marketing arm to deal with an RFP. Does anyone know if that really is an obstacle to getting open source to be considered in government? Also, Susan Almy replied to my email and said that Charlotte Quimby of Plainfield is also on the legislative committee. -- Lloyd Kvam Venix Corp. 1 Court Street, Suite 378 Lebanon, NH 03766-1358 voice: 603-653-8139 fax:320-210-3409 ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
