Re: ubuntu translation credits
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Christian Rose wrote: > On 9/24/06, Benoît Dejean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Le dimanche 24 septembre 2006 à 13:50 +0300, Alexander Shopov a écrit : Benoît Dejean wrote: > They steal our work. >>> No, they just behave not optimally. >> Call it how you want : they put their name on our work. This is not >> friendly. >> >>> Is there anyone that can handle the situation with tact and patience so >>> that we can rather help each other rather than mess things up and start >>> discussions of legal and illegal behaviour? >> I've already asked for that. Let's wait for a reply from i18n masters. > > I think it would help if we first assume that this wasn't done on > purpose, and it's just some mistake. Sometimes fresh volunteers don't > realize what they are allowed and not allowed to do with copyrights. > > Please make sure that any cases of removed copyrights are bug reported > in Ubuntu's bug system, and please let us know the links to those bug > reports. If there is no action on those bug reports, please feel free > to take this matter further by reporting it to the GNOME Foundation > board. > Also, those on ubuntu-devel would like to know examples of offending packages, and where to find the strings, in source and at runtime. So far in this discussion, there hasn't been a single direct reference, and I think it's time for some. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFFuffv7fgPJvITk4RAqPCAJ9qcrdZaC7nmen1NNP0m56capzx8QCg3l9m 6ockg4Q2Qf5tChHxoiUk/ng= =/1Sa -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: ubuntu translation credits
On 9/24/06, Benoît Dejean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Le dimanche 24 septembre 2006 à 13:50 +0300, Alexander Shopov a écrit : > > > Benoît Dejean wrote: > > >> They steal our work. > > No, they just behave not optimally. > > Call it how you want : they put their name on our work. This is not > friendly. > > > Is there anyone that can handle the situation with tact and patience so > > that we can rather help each other rather than mess things up and start > > discussions of legal and illegal behaviour? > > I've already asked for that. Let's wait for a reply from i18n masters. I think it would help if we first assume that this wasn't done on purpose, and it's just some mistake. Sometimes fresh volunteers don't realize what they are allowed and not allowed to do with copyrights. Please make sure that any cases of removed copyrights are bug reported in Ubuntu's bug system, and please let us know the links to those bug reports. If there is no action on those bug reports, please feel free to take this matter further by reporting it to the GNOME Foundation board. Mdbh Christian ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Gnome translator accounts
Em Dom, 2006-09-24 às 12:15 +0100, Djihed Afifi escreveu: > Any update on the account creation process is welcome :) http://blogs.gnome.org/view/gpastore/2006/09/22/0 ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: ubuntu translation credits
Le dimanche 24 septembre 2006 à 13:50 +0300, Alexander Shopov a écrit : > > Benoît Dejean wrote: > >> They steal our work. > No, they just behave not optimally. Call it how you want : they put their name on our work. This is not friendly. > Is there anyone that can handle the situation with tact and patience so > that we can rather help each other rather than mess things up and start > discussions of legal and illegal behaviour? I've already asked for that. Let's wait for a reply from i18n masters. -- GNOME http://www.gnomefr.org/ LibGTop http://directory.fsf.org/libgtop.html signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Upcoming Rhythmbox 0.9.6 release
Hi everyone, We're looking to release a new version of Rhythmbox next weekend, so if anyone has any updated translations, getting them into cvs before then would be much appreciated. Cheers, James "Doc" Livingston -- "Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read." -- Groucho Marx ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: ubuntu translation credits
Le dimanche 24 septembre 2006 à 11:52 +0200, Wouter Bolsterlee a écrit : > 2006-09-24 klockan 11:45 skrev Benoît Dejean: > > Le samedi 23 septembre 2006 à 17:15 +0200, Benoît Dejean a écrit : > > Translator names are not only in the (comment) header of the source. po > files. Most applications have a "transation-credits" string that shows up in > the .mo files. Are you suggesting that i should run 'strings *.mo' to get credits for translations ? Last time i used this technique, it was to check if a binary proprietary program did not illegaly embed GPL software. Again, according to the GPL : > You may copy and distribute verbatim copies of the Program's > source code as you receive it, in any medium, provided that you > conspicuously and appropriately publish on each copy an appropriate > copyright notice and disclaimer of warranty; i don't think obfuscated strings in a binary file is an appropriate copyright notice. -- GNOME http://www.gnomefr.org/ LibGTop http://directory.fsf.org/libgtop.html signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: ubuntu translation credits
Le dimanche 24 septembre 2006 à 11:44 +0300, Yavor Doganov a écrit : > Benoît Dejean wrote: > > > > They steal our work. > > I don't understand this. Everyone is free to fork our translations > and keeping the credits (in the translator-credits string) is not > mandatory. GPL #1 says : > You may copy and distribute verbatim copies of the Program's > source code as you receive it, in any medium, provided that you > conspicuously and appropriately publish on each copy an appropriate > copyright notice and disclaimer of warranty; so it's a clear violation has copyright notice is not published (and is faked). > However, AFAIK they change the copyright to something like "Rossetta > contributors", which is illegal if they remove the original copyright > notice. that what they do. -- GNOME http://www.gnomefr.org/ LibGTop http://directory.fsf.org/libgtop.html signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: ubuntu translation credits
Op zo, 24-09-2006 te 13:50 +0300, schreef Alexander Shopov: > Yep, there should be a clear notice whose ass to flame. People do no > understand that Ubuntu's versions are not those of upstream. > I have bugs in our bugtracking system that are Ubuntu's fault. > I'm just assuming here, but this is probably the reason why Ubuntu replaced the translators-credits string with 'the ubuntu team'. There was probably no bad intention on their side; 'them trying to steal the credits'. Just a way to ensure upstream translators are not bothered with translation bugs introduced by the rosetta team. Still, like Wouter said, it would be better if ubuntu fixed the rosetta system to use the upstream translations where possible instead of their own. Tino Meinen ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Gnome translator accounts
Hello, Are Gnome translator accounts requests being looked at or is there a problem? I submitted a gnome account creation request on the 8th September. Any update on the account creation process is welcome :) Djihed ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: ubuntu translation credits
> Benoît Dejean wrote: >> They steal our work. No, they just behave not optimally. Yavor Doganov wrote: > I don't understand this. Everyone is free to fork our translations > and keeping the credits (in the translator-credits string) is not > mandatory. Yep, there should be a clear notice whose ass to flame. People do no understand that Ubuntu's versions are not those of upstream. I have bugs in our bugtracking system that are Ubuntu's fault. > Whether forking is a good thing is another matter -- I > agree that often it's suboptimal and a waste of efforts, especially if > these "forks" are not merged upstream or at least offered for review. I would second that saying that it is extremely suboptimal. Something has broken in the chain of communication. Ubuntu's contributors are free to make their own translations, but I believe the enthusiasm of the people there will be curbed when they realize that they are unnecessarily repeating jobs already done and that they can be much more productive helping, rather than supplementing us. > However, AFAIK they change the copyright to something like "Rossetta > contributors", which is illegal if they remove the original copyright > notice. Is there anyone that can handle the situation with tact and patience so that we can rather help each other rather than mess things up and start discussions of legal and illegal behaviour? Kind regards: al_shopov ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: ubuntu translation credits
Benoît Dejean wrote: > > IANAL, so is it GPL violation to strip translators names from > applications ? IANAL as well, but here's how I understand it. Typically, a PO header is like this: # Copyright (C) 2005, 2006 FSF (or John Doe, or program's copyright holder, it doesn't matter) # John Doe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, 2005, 2006. msgid "translator-credits" msgstr "John Doe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>" So if they're making a derivative, they cannot remove the copyright notice from the header, instead they have to add: # Copyright (C) 2006 Rossetta contributors (or whatever) # Ubuntu Dude(ette) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, 2006. What they do with the translator-credits string is up to their conscience and good will. If I was in their place, I'd keep it intact and would add just my name, without removing the original names -- this is both right from ethical point of view and doesn't give the users the wrong impression that Ubuntu Dude(ette) did all the work. ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: ubuntu translation credits
2006-09-24 klockan 11:45 skrev Benoît Dejean: > Le samedi 23 septembre 2006 à 17:15 +0200, Benoît Dejean a écrit : > > Hi, > > This > > seems totally unfriendly. Do they have the right to rip off our names > > (and copyright ?). > > IANAL, so is it GPL violation to strip translators names from > applications ? Translators names are only present in the source PO file, > so if their names are stripped, there is no mention at all of them in > the released binary package. (PO files are placed under the same license > than the software they translate.) Translator names are not only in the (comment) header of the source. po files. Most applications have a "transation-credits" string that shows up in the .mo files. mvrgr, Wouter -- :wq mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] web http://uwstopia.nl she called out a warning :: don't ever let life pass you by -- incubus signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: ubuntu translation credits
Le samedi 23 septembre 2006 à 17:15 +0200, Benoît Dejean a écrit : > Hi, > This > seems totally unfriendly. Do they have the right to rip off our names > (and copyright ?). IANAL, so is it GPL violation to strip translators names from applications ? Translators names are only present in the source PO file, so if their names are stripped, there is no mention at all of them in the released binary package. (PO files are placed under the same license than the software they translate.) Thanks. -- GNOME http://www.gnomefr.org/ LibGTop http://directory.fsf.org/libgtop.html signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: ubuntu translation credits
Benoît Dejean wrote: > > They steal our work. I don't understand this. Everyone is free to fork our translations and keeping the credits (in the translator-credits string) is not mandatory. Whether forking is a good thing is another matter -- I agree that often it's suboptimal and a waste of efforts, especially if these "forks" are not merged upstream or at least offered for review. However, AFAIK they change the copyright to something like "Rossetta contributors", which is illegal if they remove the original copyright notice. ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: ubuntu translation credits
Le samedi 23 septembre 2006 à 18:47 +0200, Claude Paroz a écrit : > Le samedi 23 septembre 2006 à 18:16 +0200, Wouter Bolsterlee a écrit : > > 2006-09-23 klockan 17:15 skrev Benoît Dejean: > > > i've just noticed that on ubuntu 5.04, About->Translators displays most > > > of the time "The Ubuntu Team". I haven't checked newer releases. This > > > seems totally unfriendly. Do they have the right to rip off our names > > > (and copyright ?). We have to to something about this legal issue. Is > > > anyone already aware of this problem ? > > There is already bug reports about that. > https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+bug/116 > https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+bug/59377 (My point has nothing to do with how they work with rosetta.) I'm disappointed that you call bug something that was done on purpose and that is present is two releases. I'm expecting public apologies from Ubuntu or else i really don't get why we should keep working FOR this company. In the Linux/SCO affair, as SCO refused the terms of the GPL, GCC dropped SCO support and made a public notice about it. I'm not joking. I make no special case of Ubuntu. They steal our work. If it has not already been done, i'm requesting that some representative of gnome-i18n officially contact Ubuntu to ask for apologies and explanations. Thanks. -- GNOME http://www.gnomefr.org/ LibGTop http://directory.fsf.org/libgtop.html signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n