Re: [Indlinux-group] Non-community-based approaches to localisation
On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 10:49:09 +0530 RKVS Raman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, My name is RKVS Raman and I represent the localisation team in CDAC as far as OpenOffice is concerned. By all probabilities I am the person, Gora refers to about his experience with CDAC guys. Actually, no it isn't you. I thought that we had gone through this before, and to my mind you are one of the people from CDAC who actually does make an effort to work with the community. I am sorry to have seemingly riled you up. This mail is intended to make the stand of the l10n group at CDAC clear to the community and offer some explanation to the scathing accusations that Gora and others have made on CDAC. At the end of this mail I do hope CDAC contribution will be more welcome in the community. I am sorry, what scathing accusations? I was relating my personal experience, and still stand by what I have said many times: CDAC does some very valuable work, but I see little effort to do this in a participatory fashion. One clear example of this is what we have been discussing in this thread: Localisation done for some 18 languages, which were distributed with BossLinux, but not submitted back upstream, and I have yet to hear from any existing language team coordinator that they had been contacted by BossLinux folk. Other people have also pointed out flaws with the process that BossLinux has chosen for localisation. [...] When working under deadlines, it was our observation that sometimes (not all) the response from l10n communities for certain languages was absent and for certain others sluggish. Oriya was one of them. I have mails written to me by Gora in which he said that they were low on resources at that time. During a meeting with him in FOSS.IN, he had said that he cannot work towards our deadlines. I did say that we were low on resources, but specifically volunteered to participate myself in the first, important step, the standardisation of the glossary of terms. We also agreed, not only amongst the two of us, but with other people from CDAC, that we would be willing to review translations at an intermediate stage. None of this happened. [...] Here is an organisation which is willing to make crucial contributions to the community at its own defined speed. [...] At the same time few of us in the organisation do make sure that we don't lock our efforts in our own backup servers. We share it. We have always done it with OpenOffice and are now trying to do so for GNOME. I am surprised at the resistance we get when we are trying to do this. Um, I have pointed out the reasons for this in my original mail. Your translations of GNOME, at least as far as Oriya goes, did not follow the standard terminology used by the existing language team, and also sometimes missed the intended context in computer terms. This makes it difficult to suddenly integrate a large chunk of translations. Things would have gone much more smoothly if this integration could have happened a bit at a time, on a longer timescale. Should a major chunk of contribution go unnoticed just because we did not satisfy the egos of those in 'power'? I would not want to believe so. It would have been easy for us to just integrate it with our distro and be done with our work. We would have satisfied our funding agency, but we dont believe in it. We don't want to work in isolation. But no, we are not apologizing to anybody either. Since the impression at CDAC seems to be that it is doing people a favour by making the translated .po files available, I would like to point out that since Indian-language interfaces are distributed as binaries on the BossLinux CD, and since many of the .po files are covered by the GPL, CDAC is *required* to make such source .po files available upon request. I now volunteer to be that liaison between open source communities and CDAC if need be. I have personally shared cordial relationships with ppl in IndLinux and so i with some of my colleagues from the distro l10n team can work towards making sure that the difference in methodologies do not hurt the larger goals. [...] Great to hear that, and please believe me, I meant no personal criticism in my original message. Can we now agree to let bygones be bygones and try to move forward? The .po files at http://downloads.bosslinux.in/Translated_Po_files/ seem to have disappeared. Can we get them back? Is it possible for you to devote some resources to submitting files upstream? We should also probably drop the gnome-i18n list from any follow-ups. Regards, Gora ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: [Indlinux-group] Non-community-based approaches to localisation
Hello, Not all in CDAC are aware of the ways open source communities work. So some need to be treated with some amount of patience and gumption. Nevertheless we can make a fresh start now and let me get some guys from BOSS team on this along with making the translations available again :-) (I guess they took it offline cos of this thread). This thread needed a logical ending and so is marked to Gnome list as well. Best Regards -Raman On Sat, Sep 13, 2008 at 12:13 PM, Gora Mohanty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 10:49:09 +0530 RKVS Ramanwrote: Hi, My name is RKVS Raman and I represent the localisation team in CDAC as far as OpenOffice is concerned. By all probabilities I am the person, Gora refers to about his experience with CDAC guys. Actually, no it isn't you. I thought that we had gone through this before, and to my mind you are one of the people from CDAC who actually does make an effort to work with the community. I am sorry to have seemingly riled you up. This mail is intended to make the stand of the l10n group at CDAC clear to the community and offer some explanation to the scathing accusations that Gora and others have made on CDAC. At the end of this mail I do hope CDAC contribution will be more welcome in the community. I am sorry, what scathing accusations? I was relating my personal experience, and still stand by what I have said many times: CDAC does some very valuable work, but I see little effort to do this in a participatory fashion. One clear example of this is what we have been discussing in this thread: Localisation done for some 18 languages, which were distributed with BossLinux, but not submitted back upstream, and I have yet to hear from any existing language team coordinator that they had been contacted by BossLinux folk. Other people have also pointed out flaws with the process that BossLinux has chosen for localisation. [...] When working under deadlines, it was our observation that sometimes (not all) the response from l10n communities for certain languages was absent and for certain others sluggish. Oriya was one of them. I have mails written to me by Gora in which he said that they were low on resources at that time. During a meeting with him in FOSS.IN, he had said that he cannot work towards our deadlines. I did say that we were low on resources, but specifically volunteered to participate myself in the first, important step, the standardisation of the glossary of terms. We also agreed, not only amongst the two of us, but with other people from CDAC, that we would be willing to review translations at an intermediate stage. None of this happened. [...] Here is an organisation which is willing to make crucial contributions to the community at its own defined speed. [...] At the same time few of us in the organisation do make sure that we don't lock our efforts in our own backup servers. We share it. We have always done it with OpenOffice and are now trying to do so for GNOME. I am surprised at the resistance we get when we are trying to do this. Um, I have pointed out the reasons for this in my original mail. Your translations of GNOME, at least as far as Oriya goes, did not follow the standard terminology used by the existing language team, and also sometimes missed the intended context in computer terms. This makes it difficult to suddenly integrate a large chunk of translations. Things would have gone much more smoothly if this integration could have happened a bit at a time, on a longer timescale. Should a major chunk of contribution go unnoticed just because we did not satisfy the egos of those in 'power'? I would not want to believe so. It would have been easy for us to just integrate it with our distro and be done with our work. We would have satisfied our funding agency, but we dont believe in it. We don't want to work in isolation. But no, we are not apologizing to anybody either. Since the impression at CDAC seems to be that it is doing people a favour by making the translated .po files available, I would like to point out that since Indian-language interfaces are distributed as binaries on the BossLinux CD, and since many of the .po files are covered by the GPL, CDAC is *required* to make such source .po files available upon request. I now volunteer to be that liaison between open source communities and CDAC if need be. I have personally shared cordial relationships with ppl in IndLinux and so i with some of my colleagues from the distro l10n team can work towards making sure that the difference in methodologies do not hurt the larger goals. [...] Great to hear that, and please believe me, I meant no personal criticism in my original message. Can we now agree to let bygones be bygones and try to move forward? The .po files at http://downloads.bosslinux.in/Translated_Po_files/ seem to have disappeared. Can we
Re: [Indlinux-group] Non-community-based approaches to localisation
Quoting RKVS Raman ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): Hello, Not all in CDAC are aware of the ways open source communities work. So some need to be treated with some amount of patience and gumption. Nevertheless we can make a fresh start now and let me get some guys from BOSS team on this along with making the translations available again :-) (I guess they took it offline cos of this thread). This thread needed a logical ending and so is marked to Gnome list as well. My feeling about this is that an in-person meeting would be a good way to make a progress on these issues. Couldn't foss.in be a very good opportunity to do it? I would have loved to try helping there, as facilitator or whatever (I'm not involved in both parties, at least directly) but I won't unfortunately be there, even though I enjoyed the event a lot last year. But I would urge you people to think about it and try arranging a common working session, or discussion (maybe a public BOF is not a great idea because of the lot of grieves that have raised recently). ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
New team for Kazakh (kk)
Name: Moldabekov Margulan; email: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]; bugzilla account: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Language: Kazakh; Қазақша; kk ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: wrong translations of string Rule in gtkhtml
2008/9/11 Leonardo F. Fontenelle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Em Qui, 2008-09-11 às 00:45 +0200, Andre Klapper escreveu: Am Mittwoch, den 10.09.2008, 09:08 -0300 schrieb Leonardo F. Fontenelle: Even worse: it seems that providing a patch makes a lot of difference in having the bug fixed. Those issues should be trivial to fix for developers and yet very important for translators, but sometimes were are left without a reply for months (or years). Providing a patch means that a translator must learn SVN, check out the source code, and actually read and try to understand it. Does anyone here think it is reasonable to expect this from a translator? [...] Creating a patch is mostly trivial, so I wonder whether adding the gnome-love keyword would help us in getting more such patches from code beginners that are willing to help improving gnome but search for a place to start. I loved the idea! Yeah I like this idea too. Unfortunately it will only work for the strings where the bugreporter actually knows what the comments should be. All the e.g. Load verb or noun problem will need a developers attention anyway (or will need this fresh programmer will read an understand the code) Regards Kenneth Nielsen ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
