Re: Translating recipes

[Andika Triwidada]

I think it will be quite useful to create a 'cooking glossary'. It may
contain ingredient names, photos, etc. Then every recipes should refer
to that glossary.
Or is it already included in GNOME Recipes?

On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 8:40 AM, Matthias Clasen
 wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 5:57 AM, Daniel Mustieles García
>  wrote:
>>>
>>> - Translating such recipes will now require you to translate from your
>>> language to
>>>   another (most likely, to English).
>>
>>
>> So, if I've understood well, is the translator who has to convert the
>> original text of the recipe into both English and his/her language? If so,
>> here I see two problems:
>>
>>
>>   - Translating from Spanish/translator's language into English: might be
>> difficult because of names of ingredients, recipe's steps (each user might
>> use their own cooking language which not always will have a comprehensive
>> translation into English)
>>
>>   - Traslating from an unknown language (for example, Polish): should I
>> wait Polish translators to translate the recipe into Enslish to be able to
>> translate it into Spanish?
>>
>> Also note that tons of contributions will require tons of hours to
>> translate those recipes... maybe translators won't be able to afford such
>> task and recipes will be left in english (or other language), which is not
>> desirable to expand the use of this great app.
>>
>> Please let me know if I've misunderstood the new flow you're proposing.
>> Maybe it's easier than what I've thought.
>>
>
> Let me try to explain the situation better, and outline what options we have
> to deal with it:
>
> GNOME recipes is about sharing recipes, and we want to avoid the English
> language requirement being a hurdle to contribution.
> So, we expect that going forward, we will get recipe contributions in
> languages other than English, and we want to start accepting
> them. In fact, during the week here in Jogjakarta, Elvin reached out to
> local cooking students and managed to collect more than
> 20 Indonesian recipes!h
>
> There are a few options we have for dealing with this content:
>
> 1) We can introduce the concept of 'recipe packs', eg an 'Indonesian
> recipes' pack that could be installed separately. This would
> come with the understanding that recipes in that pack will only be available
> in the local language. In this case, there is less of a
> need to translate the recipes. But it would still be nice to have a native
> speaker do some quality control on the content, ie check
> punctuation, spelling, etc.
>
> 2) We can just add these recipes to our main pool of recipes as-is. Again,
> we probably want quality control, even if we don't
> require translation. In this case, we probably want to tag recipes with
> their language, and add some language filtering capabilities
> in the applications, so users can control the languages they see. This may
> ultimatively take the form of a desktop-wide 'content
> language' setting (acutally, it may have to be a preference-ordered list).
>
> 3) We can ask you to translate the recipes to English first and only add the
> English translation to the main pool of recipes (with
> the understanding that it would then be translated to other languages like
> other recipes in the pool). This may be a bit problematic,
> since translating recipes is hard, and we've just shifted that burden from
> the contributors to the translators. And translating a
> recipe twice sounds like a recipe (!) for information loss.
>
> 4) Some combination above.
>
> Hope this clarifies
>
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>
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[DL] String additions to 'gnome-builder.master'

[GNOME Status Pages]

This is an automatic notification from status generation scripts on:
https://l10n.gnome.org.

There have been following string additions to module 'gnome-builder.master':

+ "%s %s %s"
+ "Failed to get device information: %s"
+ "My Computer (%s) — %s"

Note that this doesn't directly indicate a string freeze break, but it
might be worth investigating.
https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-builder/log/?h=master
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Re: Unauthorized translation changes in dconf-editor

[Arnaud Bonatti]

2018-03-04 19:16 UTC+01:00, Piotr Drąg :
> If it’s doable, then do it. Preferably right now.

Done, and sorry again for the inconvenience!

-- 
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courriel : arnaud.bona...@gmail.com
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Re: Translating recipes

[Matthias Clasen]

On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 5:57 AM, Daniel Mustieles García <
daniel.mustie...@gmail.com> wrote:

> - Translating such recipes will now require you to translate from your
>> language to
>>   another (most likely, to English).
>>
>
> So, if I've understood well, is the translator who has to convert the
> original text of the recipe into both English and his/her language? If so,
> here I see two problems:
>
>
  - Translating from Spanish/translator's language into English: might be
> difficult because of names of ingredients, recipe's steps (each user might
> use their own cooking language which not always will have a comprehensive
> translation into English)
>
>   - Traslating from an unknown language (for example, Polish): should I
> wait Polish translators to translate the recipe into Enslish to be able to
> translate it into Spanish?
>
> Also note that tons of contributions will require tons of hours to
> translate those recipes... maybe translators won't be able to afford such
> task and recipes will be left in english (or other language), which is not
> desirable to expand the use of this great app.
>
> Please let me know if I've misunderstood the new flow you're proposing.
> Maybe it's easier than what I've thought.
>
>
Let me try to explain the situation better, and outline what options we
have to deal with it:

GNOME recipes is about sharing recipes, and we want to avoid the English
language requirement being a hurdle to contribution.
So, we expect that going forward, we will get recipe contributions in
languages other than English, and we want to start accepting
them. In fact, during the week here in Jogjakarta, Elvin reached out to
local cooking students and managed to collect more than
20 Indonesian recipes!h

There are a few options we have for dealing with this content:

1) We can introduce the concept of 'recipe packs', eg an 'Indonesian
recipes' pack that could be installed separately. This would
come with the understanding that recipes in that pack will only be
available in the local language. In this case, there is less of a
need to translate the recipes. But it would still be nice to have a native
speaker do some quality control on the content, ie check
punctuation, spelling, etc.

2) We can just add these recipes to our main pool of recipes as-is. Again,
we probably want quality control, even if we don't
require translation. In this case, we probably want to tag recipes with
their language, and add some language filtering capabilities
in the applications, so users can control the languages they see. This may
ultimatively take the form of a desktop-wide 'content
language' setting (acutally, it may have to be a preference-ordered list).

3) We can ask you to translate the recipes to English first and only add
the English translation to the main pool of recipes (with
the understanding that it would then be translated to other languages like
other recipes in the pool). This may be a bit problematic,
since translating recipes is hard, and we've just shifted that burden from
the contributors to the translators. And translating a
recipe twice sounds like a recipe (!) for information loss.

4) Some combination above.

Hope this clarifies
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Re: 3.28 release notes available to translate

[Piotr Drąg]

2018-03-04 21:25 GMT+01:00 Fabio Tomat :
> In release-notes, is "Croation" a typo?
> maybe "Croatian"?
>

It is. I’ve fixed it. Thanks for reporting!

Best regards,

-- 
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https://piotrdrag.fedorapeople.org
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Re: 3.28 release notes available to translate

[Fabio Tomat]

In release-notes, is "Croation" a typo?
maybe "Croatian"?

best regards
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Re: Unauthorized translation changes in dconf-editor

[Piotr Drąg]

2018-03-04 19:13 GMT+01:00 Arnaud Bonatti :
> 2018-03-04 18:02 UTC+01:00, Piotr Drąg :
>> You’re welcome to post patches at
>>  next
>> time you feel like “improving”.
>
> I’ll remember that.
>
>> It would be best if you could revert all these commits.
>
> Well… that’s doable of course. But with the current state of things,
> it’s easy to use the `grep` tool to find some translations bugs like
> quoting mark errors in translations (\n instead of „/“/”/«/»/etc., or
> the opposite), where it was completely impossible with the previous
> noise, and the same with the spacing/non-spacing/other before “bit”
> (and other use cases). Of course, if some specific projects prefer,
> I’ll revert my change on their po file, but I really don’t think it’s
> a good idea to remove as a whole. Not even counting all the lost
> fixes.
>

If it’s doable, then do it. Preferably right now.

-- 
Piotr Drąg
https://piotrdrag.fedorapeople.org
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Re: Unauthorized translation changes in dconf-editor

[Arnaud Bonatti]

2018-03-04 18:02 UTC+01:00, Piotr Drąg :
> You’re welcome to post patches at
>  next
> time you feel like “improving”.

I’ll remember that.

> It would be best if you could revert all these commits.

Well… that’s doable of course. But with the current state of things,
it’s easy to use the `grep` tool to find some translations bugs like
quoting mark errors in translations (\n instead of „/“/”/«/»/etc., or
the opposite), where it was completely impossible with the previous
noise, and the same with the spacing/non-spacing/other before “bit”
(and other use cases). Of course, if some specific projects prefer,
I’ll revert my change on their po file, but I really don’t think it’s
a good idea to remove as a whole. Not even counting all the lost
fixes.

-- 
Arnaud Bonatti

courriel : arnaud.bona...@gmail.com
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Re: Unauthorized translation changes in dconf-editor

[Piotr Drąg]

2018-03-04 17:51 GMT+01:00 Arnaud Bonatti :
> Hi everybody, sorry for the delayed reply. I don’t check these lists
> daily, and my filters has also hidden the direct mail, sorry Piotr
> Drąg. :·(
>
> 2018-03-01 18:18 UTC+01:00, Piotr Drąg :
>> A few days ago Arnaud Bonatti, the dconf-editor maintainer, started
>> committing changes to translations:
>>
>> https://git.gnome.org/browse/dconf-editor/log/po?qt=author&q=Arnaud+Bonatti
>
> Yes. I’m sorry. I’m a perfectionist, and directly working on things
> helps me seen how the “dconf-editor product” finishes in people hands,
> for improving it. In all my po files edits, I’ve spotted tenths of
> typos in various languages, one bug in the generation of eight strings
> (translated by translators, but not applied to the application; I’m
> currently working on a fix for before the last unstable release), and
> one case where I should improve code for helping i18n.
>
> Hope that hasn’t caused too much “harm” for teams, but that has been
> really helpful from a releaser/maintainer point of view. I’ve notably
> realized how many strings are translated and how useful/not-so-useful
> ones are mixed, and will probably ask for a split of the “demo” string
> in a following cycle, so translators of small teams could concentrate
> on the application general UI. And globally, I’m more aware now of
> some problems of my code, and that’ll help in the future.
>
> 2018-03-01 21:10 UTC+01:00, Michael Catanzaro :
>> Normally, the translators like to update their po files themselves.
>> Just like you probably don't want translators modifying your code. ;) I
>> know you're just trying to reduce fuzziness of the strings, but I would
>> leave these files alone from now on, OK?
>
> Well, if some translators want to improved my code in revenge, I’d
> honestly thank them to do so. ^^ But I understood, that’s not
> something I’ll redo, I just needed to have a view of what was
> happening between code and users, and that has been enlightening. I’ve
> finished, apart for the big bug I’m working on, but that’s for a
> following email. ^^
>

You’re welcome to post patches at
 next
time you feel like “improving”.

It would be best if you could revert all these commits.

-- 
Piotr Drąg
https://piotrdrag.fedorapeople.org
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Re: Unauthorized translation changes in dconf-editor

[Arnaud Bonatti]

Hi everybody, sorry for the delayed reply. I don’t check these lists
daily, and my filters has also hidden the direct mail, sorry Piotr
Drąg. :·(

2018-03-01 18:18 UTC+01:00, Piotr Drąg :
> A few days ago Arnaud Bonatti, the dconf-editor maintainer, started
> committing changes to translations:
>
> https://git.gnome.org/browse/dconf-editor/log/po?qt=author&q=Arnaud+Bonatti

Yes. I’m sorry. I’m a perfectionist, and directly working on things
helps me seen how the “dconf-editor product” finishes in people hands,
for improving it. In all my po files edits, I’ve spotted tenths of
typos in various languages, one bug in the generation of eight strings
(translated by translators, but not applied to the application; I’m
currently working on a fix for before the last unstable release), and
one case where I should improve code for helping i18n.

Hope that hasn’t caused too much “harm” for teams, but that has been
really helpful from a releaser/maintainer point of view. I’ve notably
realized how many strings are translated and how useful/not-so-useful
ones are mixed, and will probably ask for a split of the “demo” string
in a following cycle, so translators of small teams could concentrate
on the application general UI. And globally, I’m more aware now of
some problems of my code, and that’ll help in the future.

2018-03-01 21:10 UTC+01:00, Michael Catanzaro :
> Normally, the translators like to update their po files themselves.
> Just like you probably don't want translators modifying your code. ;) I
> know you're just trying to reduce fuzziness of the strings, but I would
> leave these files alone from now on, OK?

Well, if some translators want to improved my code in revenge, I’d
honestly thank them to do so. ^^ But I understood, that’s not
something I’ll redo, I just needed to have a view of what was
happening between code and users, and that has been enlightening. I’ve
finished, apart for the big bug I’m working on, but that’s for a
following email. ^^

Regards,
Arnaud

-- 
Arnaud Bonatti

courriel : arnaud.bona...@gmail.com
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Re: Unauthorized translation changes in dconf-editor

[Piotr Drąg]

2018-03-01 18:18 GMT+01:00 Piotr Drąg :
> Hi,
>
> A few days ago Arnaud Bonatti, the dconf-editor maintainer, started
> committing changes to translations:
>
> https://git.gnome.org/browse/dconf-editor/log/po?qt=author&q=Arnaud+Bonatti
>
> These changes were not consulted with any translation team or i18n
> coordinators. They also seem unneeded at best, and harmful at worst. I
> sent an email to Arnaud yesterday asking him to stop
> (https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-i18n/2018-February/msg00081.html),
> but today even more changes were committed. Please advise.
>

There’s been even more changes since this email. To be honest, this is
completely unacceptable and needs to stop ASAP.

-- 
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