[eog] Created branch gnome-3-32

[Felix Riemann]

The branch 'gnome-3-32' was created pointing to:

 e3b733c... Update French translation

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Re: Unauthorized translation changes in dconf-editor

[Mario Blättermann via gnome-i18n]

Hello Arnaud,

Arnaud Bonatti via gnome-i18n  schrieb am Di., 19.
März 2019, 16:43:

> Hi Alexandre,
>
> 2019-03-19 11:06 UTC+01:00, Alexandre Franke :
> > Sadly whether we translate it or not, it will still be seen as “GNOME
> > software” (it lives in GNOME/ on gitlab) and his behaviour will hurt
> > the good reputation of our translation work. If he’s not up to the
> > task of maintaining that piece of software correctly then he should be
> > handled in an appropriate way.
>
> Honestly, I though at the opposite that this way to do things would
> please both translators and users.
>
> Users, because it brings to them fixes to translations in a fast way
> (with some errors –I’m human, and do not write all languages on Earth–
> but mostly with improvements), and with less regressions also, as my
> patches are “saving” some old strings from not being applied.
>
> Translators, because I was giving back to them my suggestions, so that
> they could apply it or dismiss it in the main po/ files, a good way to
> improve their translations faster than before, and a real quality
> assurance, as I’m reading translations with a completely different
> vision of the application and with a complete knowledge on what each
> string does and where it goes (in the same logic, I also tried by the
> way to help translators here by adding comments in the code).
>
> > We’re now beyond the honest mistake
> > that a beginner would make and this qualifies as hostile since he was
> > already warned and he created that branch to work around us. Can the
> > release team give him back his training wheels, please?
>
> In last year debate, what I understood was that editing po/ files in
> the main branches (“master” and “gnome-3-xx”) was causing problems, as
> translators would not always be made aware of the change; here, what
> I’ve done is with a completely different logic, as translators have
> the final decision in the end, with every change.
>

Last year we haven't discussed about changes in other than the main
branches, because it was not imagineable that you would open a backdoor
some time later, using such a maintainer-only branch. Regarding the
mentioned "different logic", it is your logic, and it is hard to
understand. You've broken the simple rule "don't touch po files, and in
return translators don't touch your source files" again. And by the way,
the "final decision" is still yours, because you made the tarball release
from your maintainer-only branch (as Jeremy Bicha already stated).

But besides your logic, most of your "fixes" and "improvements" were
senseless and absolutely uncritical for the release, and some of them have
changed correct translations to incorrect ones. Is this your understanding
of making things better, even better than the translation teams can do?

Honestly, I didn’t imagined that translators would see something wrong
> with me using this new workflow,


This new workflow is no more than a cheap copy of the old one. I'm afraid
you still haven't understand the problem...

and I never thought of it as being
> “hostile” or “to work around [translators]”. Of course, I will stop
> pushing changed translations to users starting for now (and I hope I
> understood correctly the problem this time; are we at least ok on the
> words used?).
>
> Regards,
> Arnaud
>

I hope you respect the rules now. But you have abused the trust of the
Gnome TP members, you should be aware of that. Would be a good idea to keep
an eye on your future activities.

Best Regards,
Mario

>
> --
> Arnaud Bonatti
> 
> courriel : arnaud.bona...@gmail.com
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Re: [GitLab] Another batch migration coming this week

[Carlos Soriano]

I forgot an important one, i18n (cced now) and all their products will also
be migrated.

On Tue, 19 Mar 2019 at 11:17, Carlos Soriano  wrote:

> Hey all,
>
> As the subject says, whenever I manage to make the tool work I will do
> another batch migration. If you want to avoid the mass mailing, feel free
> to turn off Bugzilla notifications.
>
> The projects on the batch are these
> ,
> except those that have the "need evaluation" label.
>
> Cheers
>
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Re: Unauthorized translation changes in dconf-editor

[Arnaud Bonatti via gnome-i18n]

Hi Alexandre,

2019-03-19 11:06 UTC+01:00, Alexandre Franke :
> Sadly whether we translate it or not, it will still be seen as “GNOME
> software” (it lives in GNOME/ on gitlab) and his behaviour will hurt
> the good reputation of our translation work. If he’s not up to the
> task of maintaining that piece of software correctly then he should be
> handled in an appropriate way.

Honestly, I though at the opposite that this way to do things would
please both translators and users.

Users, because it brings to them fixes to translations in a fast way
(with some errors –I’m human, and do not write all languages on Earth–
but mostly with improvements), and with less regressions also, as my
patches are “saving” some old strings from not being applied.

Translators, because I was giving back to them my suggestions, so that
they could apply it or dismiss it in the main po/ files, a good way to
improve their translations faster than before, and a real quality
assurance, as I’m reading translations with a completely different
vision of the application and with a complete knowledge on what each
string does and where it goes (in the same logic, I also tried by the
way to help translators here by adding comments in the code).

> We’re now beyond the honest mistake
> that a beginner would make and this qualifies as hostile since he was
> already warned and he created that branch to work around us. Can the
> release team give him back his training wheels, please?

In last year debate, what I understood was that editing po/ files in
the main branches (“master” and “gnome-3-xx”) was causing problems, as
translators would not always be made aware of the change; here, what
I’ve done is with a completely different logic, as translators have
the final decision in the end, with every change.

Honestly, I didn’t imagined that translators would see something wrong
with me using this new workflow, and I never thought of it as being
“hostile” or “to work around [translators]”. Of course, I will stop
pushing changed translations to users starting for now (and I hope I
understood correctly the problem this time; are we at least ok on the
words used?).

Regards,
Arnaud

-- 
Arnaud Bonatti

courriel : arnaud.bona...@gmail.com
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Re: Unauthorized translation changes in dconf-editor

[Arnaud Bonatti via gnome-i18n]

Hi Claude Paroz, hi Ask Hjorth Larsen,

2019-03-18 20:35 UTC+01:00, Claude Paroz :
>> On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 5:02 AM, Arnaud Bonatti
>>  wrote:
> ...
>>> If a translation contains a web link to what is currently an
>>> hypnotherapist website, it’s my role to remove that link before it
>>> hits the stable release. Even if I didn’t had the time to join the
>>> translator or its team to fix it in l10n. (Yes, it’s a true story. Not
>>> a big issue, but a real life one.)
>
> However the example above is a typical example whete it would be crucial
> that gnome-i18n is aware of the issue, because the person that committed
> that is either malicious and his account should immediately be blocked,
> or his account has been hacked and he should be aware of that.

Of course, when I discovered that thing, I imagined various scenarii
like these; but that’s clearly not the case; that’s just a domain name
of a translation team that has been abandonned, and reused for
something else. The link is a broken link, so it’s not a direct
promotion (hopefully!), it’s just pointing to an inappropriate
website.

2019-03-18 21:14 UTC+01:00, Ask Hjorth Larsen :
> I agree with this - also, reporting the smaller errors to the
> translation teams could mean that they are corrected elsewhere, as
> they are likely repeated in the 100+ GNOME modules.  I wonder if that
> link is found in multiple modules?

Well, if that problem is/was on my priorities of the week, that’s the
reason… I think most GNOME applications have this link in their About
dialog. So if it’s not a big issue in itsefl, it would be great to fix
it, and everywhere.

So, what’s the problem? well, dconf-editor’s Bulgarian translation
po/bg.po contains:
msgid "translator-credits"
msgstr ""
"Александър Шопов \n"
"\n"
"Проектът за превод на GNOME има нужда от подкрепа.\n"
"Научете повече за нас на http://gnome.cult.bg\;>http://gnome.cult.;
"bg\n"
"Докладвайте за грешки на http://gnome.cult.bg/bugs\;>http://gnome.;
"cult.bg/bugs"

That text is the one displayed in the About dialog for crediting
translators, but people on that list must know that. :·) The subdomain
http://gnome.cult.bg is broken, hopefully, that’s why it’s clearly not
malicious; but the domain http://cult.bg is… surprising.

As we’re here, if someone would like to take care of contacting the
correct people to fix this issue, that would be really appreciated.
:·)

Regards,
Arnaud

-- 
Arnaud Bonatti

courriel : arnaud.bona...@gmail.com
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Re: Unauthorized translation changes in dconf-editor

[Alexandre Franke]

On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 10:41 PM Mart Raudsepp via gnome-i18n
 wrote:
> And of course changes all over the place that copy phrases and strings
> over from somewhere else, presumably without knowing the language or
> grammar and other subtleties.

Even for a language he knows (French, his mother tongue) he makes
changes that are inacceptable. In
https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/dconf-editor/commit/f2ef1624d3878b624456365beb2c69632eba11fe
he changed a correct translation to an incorrect one.

> In general there are real fixes and probable improvements in there, but
> I don't see why the language teams just get trampled over here.

Thanks, that is indeed an appropriate term for the situation.

> It is
> maybe theoretically beneficial to languages that can't keep up at all,
> and it's just a way to keep it (a bit more) up to date; but for active
> languages, it's actively stepping over the language teams and defeating
> the process. As far as I'm concerned, if it's a GNOME project, you
> don't touch the translations yourself.

Even for inactive languages, that was not the place to do such
changes. It should have gone through i18n review.

> Lets just say that dconf-editor at this point is not something I feel
> like I shall be translating anytime soon, as it'll not be what gets
> shipped anyways. If you want to be the translator for all languages,
> you also get to translate it all, not only improve and "improve" stuff.
> This is a two-way street.

Sadly whether we translate it or not, it will still be seen as “GNOME
software” (it lives in GNOME/ on gitlab) and his behaviour will hurt
the good reputation of our translation work. If he’s not up to the
task of maintaining that piece of software correctly then he should be
handled in an appropriate way. We’re now beyond the honest mistake
that a beginner would make and this qualifies as hostile since he was
already warned and he created that branch to work around us. Can the
release team give him back his training wheels, please?

-- 
Alexandre Franke
GNOME Hacker
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Re: Unauthorized translation changes in dconf-editor

[Matej Urbančič]

Hello,
I do appreciate this debate, it is very important ... I need to chip in my
2 cents.
I was not aware Arnaud was committing changes to different projects, but:
- he did send me a note, pointing me to 2 translations that broke UI (which
still bedazzle me, how that happened),
- he asked about couple of other strings
- I asked him to update the Slovenian translation since the time span
before release was short but
- then I found some extra time and checked and updated the dconf-editor
anyway, committing additional changes.

I did not feel any problems about our communication ... even more, if he
hadn't notified me, I would not till now be aware of the errors!, and even
worse, I would commit later updates with the same breaking string.

The problem I see in cases like Slovenian example about Translators is lack
of "Comments" from developers, similarly comments would be useful also when
the strings are spited, unusual, long ... searching where strings pops up
is a drag. Comments should describe where and what a specific string is.

Best,

Matej

On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 10:41 PM Mart Raudsepp via gnome-i18n <
gnome-i18n@gnome.org> wrote:

> Ühel kenal päeval, E, 18.03.2019 kell 20:35, kirjutas Claude Paroz:
> > Le 18.03.19 à 15:17, mcatanz...@gnome.org a écrit :
> > > Please keep gnome-i18n@gnome.org CCed
> > >
> > > On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 5:02 AM, Arnaud Bonatti
> > >  wrote:
> > ...
> > > > If a translation contains a web link to what is currently an
> > > > hypnotherapist website, it’s my role to remove that link before
> > > > it
> > > > hits the stable release. Even if I didn’t had the time to join
> > > > the
> > > > translator or its team to fix it in l10n. (Yes, it’s a true
> > > > story. Not
> > > > a big issue, but a real life one.)
> >
> > Hello Arnaud,
> >
> > I'm sure you have good intentions and you want the better for you
> > released software.
> > However the example above is a typical example whete it would be
> > crucial
> > that gnome-i18n is aware of the issue, because the person that
> > committed
> > that is either malicious and his account should immediately be
> > blocked,
> > or his account has been hacked and he should be aware of that.
> >
> > So if you report a serious issue to a translator team and don't get
> > a
> > prompt answer, you should imemdiately escalate the issue to gnome-
> > i18n
> > so we can take proper action.
>
> Only things related to links I noticed was
>
> https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/dconf-editor/commit/0e6f727e249f259939f65c44c70bc173cf214292
> which is just a dead link.
>
> https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/dconf-editor/commit/c34101ac613708fbd5bad3f4fe1ebb4574f3f29f
> which shows the same page.
> And various changes from http to https by Arnaud.
> So some commit I missed had an outdated translator-credits?
> I even checked
> git diff origin/gnome-3-32..origin/maintainer-only-3-32 |grep http
>
>
> Meanwhile I see stuff like this instead:
>
>
> https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/dconf-editor/commit/cb0708fedc224ae9274645d8d8e377953f37c233
> Breaks unicode typography for the language - this language team uses
> ”%s” kind of markup typography throughout the desktop, not the English
> specific “%s”, but this is broken by this commit from Arnaud. I would
> be very angry if he broke my strings like this; but unfortunately (or
> fortunately?) we are in such a state that dconf-editor isn't really
> translated. I'd use „%s“, as told by our NATIONAL language institute(!)
> which Arnaud would break. I bet this is a similar case with baski here
> for eu.po file.
>
>
> https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/dconf-editor/commit/3704fbb76c70def8718da2a62de12958cd7c7248
> Probably changes translation of "Creators" from slovenian "Creators" to
> "Created" instead
>
>
> https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/dconf-editor/commit/20d7339d1cceab3f8e16cebf8a054740fd02dd95
>
>
> And of course changes all over the place that copy phrases and strings
> over from somewhere else, presumably without knowing the language or
> grammar and other subtleties.
>
> In general there are real fixes and probable improvements in there, but
> I don't see why the language teams just get trampled over here. It is
> maybe theoretically beneficial to languages that can't keep up at all,
> and it's just a way to keep it (a bit more) up to date; but for active
> languages, it's actively stepping over the language teams and defeating
> the process. As far as I'm concerned, if it's a GNOME project, you
> don't touch the translations yourself.
> If a language has such trouble, I don't think it makes sense to go
> spend hours and hours of time without knowing the language on tweaking
> things in an application that frankly no regular user should end up
> running anyways. Meanwhile it's then supposedly not good in 100 other
> GNOME modules for the language that people are actually exposed to.
>
> Lets just say that dconf-editor at this point is not something I feel
> like I shall be translating anytime soon, as it'll not be