Change of zh_TW / zh_HK team coordinator

[Abel Cheung]

Hi,

As title, I'm no more the coordinator of traditional Chinese team.
Actually this is already the de facto situation several releases ago,
when Chao-Hsiung Liao is handling all the translation commits, and I
don't have any svn access since the last SSL cert fiasco. So it would
be desirable to transfer all my access rights to him, and all public
team information accordingly as well. Right now I can only raise his
rights to "committer".

So the actual changes include:

Chao-Hsiung Liao (svn user name: chliao) -->
* change to coordinator, in both Damned Lies and public team info page
* bugzilla zh_TW/zh_HK component default email changed to his address
* email addresses in existing bugs as well

Abel Cheung (svn user name: baddog) -->
* disable subversion account (already the case)
* remove bugzilla account

Many thanks to whoever handling all the changes.

Abel
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Re: Add translation contexts

[Abel Cheung]

On 10/11/07, Abel Cheung <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> And why changing everything all over GNOME is needed? Isn't all
> Q_() calls end up in glib/gi18n.h, which calls g_strip_context()?

OK, I need some coffee... all Q_() calls should better be replaced
by pgettext().
But seriously, how many Q_() calls are there throughout GNOME?
Haven't grep'ed that yet, but shouldn't be too much. Or not?

Abel


>
> Abel
>
>
> >
> > And that also means breaking PO files, so a migration would be due as
> > well.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Danilo
> > ___
> > gnome-i18n mailing list
> > gnome-i18n@gnome.org
> > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
> >
>
>
> --
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> --------
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>


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Re: Add translation contexts

[Abel Cheung]

On 9/22/07, Danilo Šegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> GNOME is still not using msgctxt.  It would be worthwhile to switch,
> but note that msgctxt is incompatible with the existing GNOME-way, so
> it's not trivial (as in change just one library [namely glib]), but it
> will involve changing it all over GNOME.

I'd always tend to think this is laziness rather than anything else, as
KDE4 has had concerted effort on converting home-brew solution to
native gettext support, and seems to go well.

And why changing everything all over GNOME is needed? Isn't all
Q_() calls end up in glib/gi18n.h, which calls g_strip_context()?

Abel


>
> And that also means breaking PO files, so a migration would be due as
> well.
>
> Cheers,
> Danilo
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Re: GNOME dependencies and translation status

[Abel Cheung]

On 5/13/07, Alexander Shopov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Djihed Afifi написа:
> > How to commit back the work? Does the freedesktop project grant commit
> > access to translators?
>
> My usual advice to translators is to bypass the TP robot, check out the
> corresponding project, check which are the real committers to the
> po-directory and then contact directly those developers.

The outcome is different between various projects. Some maintainers are
happy to see whatever newest translation they can get via private submission,
while others insist you must submit via TP robot, and even worse -- some
selected few projects ignore translation both via TP robot or private channel.
No general rule here. One must try.

Sad that TP people seems to be too busy lately to handle various problems.

Abel
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Re: please change the contact information of Chinese (China )translation team

[Abel Cheung]

On 3/16/07, LI Daobing <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> since a half year ago, the Coordinator and the Web Page of Chinese
> (China) translation team is out of work.

And Funda Wang(CC'ed) has been the de facto maintainer for zh_CN
translation for quite a long time, while the default contact point (Wang Jian)
is no more reachable.


> please change the web page to
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translation-team-zh-cn
> which is also the default maillist of chinese (china) translation team in TP.

Probably you would want to ask Funda first, see if he wants to participate,
to maintain the translation on his own, or to delegate any of his
current workload.
IMHO it makes sense to recreate zh_CN team somewhere else, in order to
allow a more vibrant community.

Abel


>
> thanks.
>
> --
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Re: Beast translation updates

[Abel Cheung]

On 3/15/07, Tim Janik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> also, please update the .po files directly from the SVN version and do not
> try to regenerate them with your own versions of intltool. this would
> partially delete extracted i18n strings due to missing capabilities in
> your intltool versions (our po/ needs gettext/scm-funcs intltool support).

Tim, do you think it is possible to merge it back into intltool?

Abel

>
> thanks for all your effort.
>
> ---
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Re: Localized password !?

[Abel Cheung]

On 3/5/07, Changwoo Ryu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 2007-03-04 (일), 20:35 +0800, Abel Cheung 쓰시길:
> >
> > What I have in mind is to actually remove N_() if they
> > should be left alone.
>
> In some languages their localized passwords can be typed in the text
> entry, with ASCII letters and/or simple XKB-rules.  But I'm not sure
> such language users really want that.

That's why I'd suggest dropping them from translation, since they
most probably look like random words, and most importantly, people
are expected to change the password once they got their account.

Abel


>
>
> --
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Re: [EMAIL PROTECTED] gtk+ translation

[Abel Cheung]

On 3/5/07, Priit Laes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ühel kenal päeval, E, 2007-03-05 kell 12:49, kirjutas Ihar Hrachyshka:
> > Hello!
> > Our l10n team swears to commit the missing gtk+-properties translation
> > until 10th of March, so, please, don't remove our translations.
> > Thanks in advance!
> Could you at least upload an empty po file (just add fix the header)
>
> Keeping tree unbuildable for 5 days is not a very good solution...

In this kind of cases, probably a better solution is to commit a stub po
file with no message in po-properties/ directory, so that translation work
can be committed ASAP without breaking build.

Abel


>
> Cheers,
> Priit :)
>
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Re: Localized password !?

[Abel Cheung]

On 3/4/07, Changwoo Ryu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 2007-03-04 (일), 18:51 +0800, Abel Cheung 쓰시길:
> > Is it really OK to localize the password strings in
> > dependencies/ggz-gtk/first.c around line 60? AFAIK those words
> > are used to assemble a first-time password for new GGZ
> > accounts. What would happen if they are localized? Can
> > ggz server accept 8-bit passwords?
>
> In GTK text entry, Chinese input can't be typed in password mode.  So
> IMO you should leave it untranslated.

What I have in mind is to actually remove N_() if they
should be left alone.

Abel

>
> --
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>
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Localized password !?

[Abel Cheung]

Hi,

Sorry for cross-posting, but I guess both lists are related.
Is it really OK to localize the password strings in
dependencies/ggz-gtk/first.c around line 60? AFAIK those words
are used to assemble a first-time password for new GGZ
accounts. What would happen if they are localized? Can
ggz server accept 8-bit passwords?

Abel
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Re: Translation of homedir folders

[Abel Cheung]

On 3/2/07, Vincent Untz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > There's one string out of order as a verb (Share) wich seems illogical
> > for a directory name.
> > Shouldn't it be "Shared" instead?
>
> Isn't "share" a noun too?

If you count dictionaries, share as a noun means either
"a portion of something" or stock, not in the sense of "shared folder".

Abel

>
> Vincent
>
> --
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Re: Little string change in vino

[Abel Cheung]

On 3/2/07, Frederic Crozat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Well lets see, 100 translators who would have to fix their .po file vs
> > one developer who doesn't have the patience for waiting until the string
> > freeze is over.
> >
> > The change you want to do is doesn't affect 99% of the users and the bug
> > only affects English locales. I think you can safely wait.
>
> With a little sed magic, all .po files could be fixed at the same time,
> without any translator work..

If such change is made, remember to notify gnome-i18n since tranlators
may simply unknowingly overwrite the change with their own translation.

Abel

>
> --
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Re: on usage of non-ascii symbols

[Abel Cheung]

On 2/27/07, Karl Eichwalder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Epiphany uses real ellipsis like this, and curly double quotation
> > marks (in opposition to the common, "vertical" one). Unicode gives us
> > a lot of unambiguous characters for situations like that, and many
> > people (ex. web standards people) think you should use them as often
> > as possible. I kind of agree with that, too, but as you said they are
> > hard to enter and most people don't like them that much.
>
> You'd better avoid such eye-candy stuff in source code.  Instead do
> proper English translations and add en_US and en_GB files.

I can recall in some older discussion that current GNOME 'policy' is
"source code == en_US".

Abel

>
> --
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> SUSE Linux Products GmbH   GF: Markus Rex
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Re: pending release: regexxer 0.9

[Abel Cheung]

On 1/6/07, Daniel Elstner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm planning to do a release of regexxer in about a week or so.  The
> last release was years ago, and I'm sorry that the many translation
> updates since then have yet to be seen by the world at large.  However,
> since there will finally be a release now, I would appreciate if the
> i18n teams could give regexxer a look and update their translations
> where necessary.

Is the new release based on HEAD but not other branches?

Abel


>
> Thanks a lot,
> --Daniel
>
>
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Re: l10n-status.gnome.org end of life

[Abel Cheung]

On 1/3/07, Danilo Šegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Today at 10:07, Woodman wrote:
> > zh_TW "Chinese (Taiwan)" team is missing on progress.gnome.org
> > Please fix it!
>
> Since it seems to be a single "Chinese (Traditional)" team managing
> both Chinese (Hong Kong) and Chinese (Taiwan) translations, I've set
> it up as this.
>   http://progress.gnome.org/teams/zh_trad

Thanks Danilo, current setup looks good, as it is indeed one team
maintaining 2 translations.

Abel

>
> If there's a problem with this, just let me know.
>
> Cheers,
> Danilo
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Re: help: could not submit my translation to zh gnome community

[Abel Cheung]

On 10/31/06, Serena <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> commit the zh translations.  He suggests me asking Abel for help to
> commit my translations.

No problem. Send to me privately, attaching your files, and I'll
handle the rest.

Abel

>
> I do not know if it works for Abel to commit the zh translations.
> Would you please share your opinion?
> Or is someone can help to fix the server problem so that the
> communication channel can be re-established among zh community members?
>
> Thanks
>
> Serena
>
>


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Re: help: could not submit my translation to zh gnome community

[Abel Cheung]

On 9/22/06, Serena <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Yes, I understand all your points :).
> I will wait until the communication problem is solved.

Serena, has the issue been resolved yet? It seems
(at least) gnome-screensaver still has not been updated
at all. If i18n.linux.net.cn is still down, you can contact
Funda Wang directly. You can ask me privately and I can
send his email address to you.

Abel


>
> Regards
>
> Serena
>
> Vladimer Sichinava wrote:
>
> > Benoît Dejean :) Ooops, I'm sorry!
> >
> > Manuel Borchers yes you'are right...maybe it's better to wait
> > Christian or Danilo.
> >
> > Serena, sorry me...I'll commit them when team coordinator issue is
> > fixed, Manuel has right!
> > It's better if you talk with Christian or Danilo before...I hope we
> > fix that soon...
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Vladimer
>
>
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Re: Glom 1.2.0 translations

[Abel Cheung]

On 10/16/06, Murray Cumming <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, 2006-10-16 at 16:06 +0930, Clytie Siddall wrote:
> > Murray, the l10n status pages are here, by language:
> > http://l10n-status.gnome.org/index.html
>
> I don't see any page that tells me about Glom. I think I'd have to look
> at separate pages for each language, and find the Glom row on each one.

I'm pretty sure some other people have written simple scripts for
that purpose when make new releases for certain cvs modules.
As a start, you can take a look at gtranslator/data/scripts/pozilla.sh,
and tweak it into whatever you like. But beware, it sends the
statistical report to gnome-i18n list automatically unless -N option
is used.

Abel


>
> > They remind me that I need to update my translation for your program. ;)
> >
> > from Clytie (vi-VN, Vietnamese free-software translation team / nhóm
> > Việt hóa phần mềm tự do)
> > http://groups-beta.google.com/group/vi-VN
> >
> >
> --
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> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Brasero (formerly bonfire) string freeze for upcoming stable release

[Abel Cheung]

On 10/15/06, Daniel Nylander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Philippe Rouquier skrev:
> > As of today, brasero strings are frozen for at least one week until the
> > next 0.5.0 stable release.
>
> How about adding brasero to the l10n status page?

Wouter has already done that.

Abel

>
> Regards,
> Daniel
>
>
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>
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Re: gthumb branched for 2.8 series

[Abel Cheung]

On 10/8/06, Paolo Bacchilega <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> the gthumb 2.7.x/2.8.x series is developed in the gthumb-2-8 branch now.

Thanks for the notification, does this mean there will be more
2.8 series to be released until notified otherwise? This question
is to make sure translators' effort would be usefully spent as well.

Best,
Abel


>
> Regards,
> Paolo.
>
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Re: gnome-themes branched for 2.16

[Abel Cheung]

On 10/6/06, Calum Benson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> gnome-themes has been branched for 2.16, gnome-2-16 branch is now for
> bugfixes and translations only.

Thanks for the notice, translation status pages should reflect the new
branch with the next update.

Abel


>
> Cheeri,
> Calum.
>
> --
> CALUM BENSON, Usability Engineer   Sun Microsystems Ireland
> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Java Desktop System Group
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>
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Re: RFC: going to add 2.18 branch

[Abel Cheung]

On 10/7/06, Priit Laes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Can't we have both 2.18 and 2.14? If the problem is the amount of
> time/power what it takes to generate the statistics - generation
> frequency could be decreased for 2.14 series (once a few days or even a
> week).

Currently all branches are regenerated in one shot, and can't separate
without changes from Carlos' machine. Adding 2.14 basically means
the time required to regenerate everything is multiplied by 1.5, though
I don't really know the impact of additional loading on the machines.
That looks like a black box to me.

Abel

> Keeping things near 100% is easier for me rather than discovering next
> to string freeze that I have lots of modules near 50%.
>
> PS. Sorry, Wouter, my bad that you were the only one to receive this letter ;)
>
> Cheers,
> Priit
>
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Re: Status pages broken for deskbar-applet

[Abel Cheung]

On 10/4/06, Priit Laes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Both l10n-status and i18n-status have problems with deskbar-applet
> stats.

Hopefully fixed.

Abel

>
> Could we also see 2.18 stats too? :)
>
> Cheers,
> Priit
>
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Re: RFC: going to add 2.18 branch

[Abel Cheung]

On 10/5/06, Wouter Bolsterlee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I have done the necessary changes to switch to 2.18 release and
> > drop 2.14 branch data form status pages. It's ready for commit.
> > If anyway still like 2.14 to be there, please shout aloud, otherwise
> > I'll go ahead and commit the change (and pray).
>
> Please don't remove the gnome-2-14 branches right now. Several large
> distributions are shipping this version and sometimes it's useful to have
> the translations available from the l10n-status pages when handling
> translation issues reported bye users.

While I agree this is a valid reason to preserve it, here comes another
question: how to decide?

- Ubuntu dapper could be using 2.14 for _3_ straight years
- Mandriva, if following its 1-yr release schedule, may not ship 2.18 at all
- Solaris (well, I don't even know its release schedule)
- ...

It's hard to draw the line here.

Abel



>
>   mvrgr, Wouter
>
> --
> :wq   mail [EMAIL 
> PROTECTED]
>   web http://uwstopia.nl
>
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RFC: going to add 2.18 branch

[Abel Cheung]

Hi all,

I have done the necessary changes to switch to 2.18 release and
drop 2.14 branch data form status pages. It's ready for commit.
If anyway still like 2.14 to be there, please shout aloud, otherwise
I'll go ahead and commit the change (and pray).

Abel

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Re: gnome-terminal branched for 2.16

[Abel Cheung]

On 10/3/06, Guilherme de S. Pastore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I've just branched gnome-terminal for 2.16, so we can start committing
> suicide patches to HEAD. ${deity} knows what kind of crazy thing is
> coming...

Thanks for the notice, translation status pages should reflect the new
branch with the next update.

Abel

>
> Cheers,
>
> --
> Guilherme de S. Pastore
> fatalerror
>
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Re: Glade 3.0 stable branched

[Abel Cheung]

On 10/4/06, Tristan Van Berkom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> A question for translators: does that mean translators should concentrate
> >> on this branch for now, unless explicitly told otherwise?
>
> I think its probably best to stay away from HEAD at least untill
> we iron out a UI, at which point I should probably call for a string
> freeze for 3.1 - as Leonardo suggests; the stable branch will have
> its changes and bugfixed pulled into HEAD regularly so for whichever
> strings /havent/ changed, thier translations wont be lost.

Thanks, then I would mark the translation status page to use 3.0
branch instead of HEAD for now.

Abel


>
> Cheers,
>    -Tristan
>


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Re: Glade 3.0 stable branched

[Abel Cheung]

On 9/30/06, Tristan Van Berkom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi all,
> we've just branched stable development of Glade 3 into the
> glade3-3-0-branch,
> this branch is pretty much feature frozen and will only be updated with
> bugfixes.

A question for translators: does that mean translators should concentrate
on this branch for now, unless explicitly told otherwise?

Abel


>
> In HEAD we will be focusing on the UI in this cycle, the embedded window UI
> that Vincent Geddes has been working on will apear in HEAD momentarily
> and that will allow us to address alot of bugs by takeing a completely
> different
> approach on handling events on widgets - we hope to get alot of feedback
> in this next cycle and adjust the UI so as to satisfy most - there will
> also be
> a significant rework wrt commands (undo/redo objects).
>
> I expect a 4 to 6 month development cycle for this release, after that
> we plan
> to rewrite the parser to support dual formats (i.e. gtkbuilder format)
> and implement all
> the dormant GObject's targetting a gtk+2.12-ish timeframe.
>
> I just wrote this mail up because I read
> http://live.gnome.org/MaintainersCorner
> and thought to notify all the relevent lists. Worthy of note is that I
> am writing d-d-l
> but glade is not part of the gnome desktop module group - while I do
> have some
> ideas on that matter I dont feel like writing up a 10 page essay on it
> so... suffice it
> to say "do we want glade as part of some gnome module set" ? any ideas
> on that ?
>
> Cheers,
>   -Tristan
>
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Re: Upcoming Rhythmbox 0.9.6 release

[Abel Cheung]

On 9/24/06, James Doc Livingston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> We're looking to release a new version of Rhythmbox next weekend, so if
> anyone has any updated translations, getting them into cvs before then
> would be much appreciated.

Thanks for the heads-up; besides, there are 3 files missing from
po/POTFILES.in:

lib/rb-proxy-config.c
plugins/audiocd/audiocd.rb-plugin.desktop.in
remote/dbus/rb-client.c

It seems they are really used by rhythmbox. Perhaps it's time to
include them? Or a formal bug report is required even in this
case?

Abel

>
>
> Cheers,
>
> James "Doc" Livingston
> --
> "Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend.
> Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read." -- Groucho Marx
>
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Re: metacity branched for 2.16

[Abel Cheung]

On 9/19/06, Thomas Thurman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Metacity has been branched for 2.16. The branch is called gnome-2-16.
> Development will continue in HEAD.

Thanks for the notice, translation status pages should reflect the new
branch with the next update.

Best,
Abel


>
> peace
>
> Thomas
>
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Re: Gnome Icon Theme branched for 2.16

[Abel Cheung]

On 9/13/06, Rodney Dawes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The icon theme is now branched for gnome-2-16.

Thanks for the notice, translation status pages should reflect the new
branch with the next update.

Best,
Abel


>
> -- dobey
>
>
>
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Re: Problem with commiting gnome-nettool or gnome-2-16 branch

[Abel Cheung]

On 9/17/06, David Lodge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm getting a problem when I try to commit updates to gnome-nettool on the
> gnome-2-16 branch:

AFAIK gnome-nettool has not been branched for gnome-2-16 (yet).

Abel

>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] po]$ cvs commit
> cvs commit: Examining .
> cvs server: sticky tag `gnome-2-16' for file `ChangeLog' is not a branch
> cvs server: sticky tag `gnome-2-16' for file `en_GB.po' is not a branch
>
> Any ideas? This is all that's stopping en_GB being 100% complete!
>
> Thanks
>
> dave
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Re: l10n-status.gnome.org

[Abel Cheung]

On 9/16/06, Leonardo Fontenelle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Example: in GNOME games, the Minesweeper game has a "_Use \"Too many
> flags\" warning" message, which is untranslated in both HEAD and
> gnome-2-16 files, but I can see a "_Utilizar o aviso \"Demasiadas
> bandeiras\"" here.

Are you using Ubuntu?

Abel


>
> I'm trying to review some translations (about compliance to standard
> translations) but I'm afraid my diff's won't be appliable.
>
> The following files were expected to be completely translated but
> l-g-o disagrees:
> - gdm2
> - gnome-games
> - gnome-volume-manager
> - gnopernicus
> - gok
> - gtksourceview
> - metacity
>
> Leonardo Fontenelle
> >From the pt_BR l10n team
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Re: Strings with context wrongly translated in gok

[Abel Cheung]

On 9/14/06, Wouter Bolsterlee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Looks like gok is not using Q_() macros, and just strips
> > "anything|" returned from the string returned by gettext
> > call. So that means translating it into
> >
> > msgstr "level 2|"
>
> The strings are supposed to include punctuation marks (at the end of the
> string; see the code comments), so translations may contain the | character
> (which is perfectly legal). In that case almost the complete translation
> "disappears" since it appears before the | character.

Yes, so for gok translations it might work the opposite way --
_ALWAYS KEEP THE CONTEXT_ instead of removing it.

Abel

>
>   mvrgr, Wouter
>
> --
> :wq   mail [EMAIL 
> PROTECTED]
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>
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>
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Strings with context wrongly translated in gok

[Abel Cheung]

Surprise, surprise. (answer below)


On 9/14/06, Runa B <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > When the msgid is "some prefix|" without an actual string, the translated
> > msgstr becomes "" if no content is needed (see the translator comments in
> > the gok .po files). Although "" is correct, this counts as "untranslated"
> > for msgfmt/intlook/i18n-status, etc. This _is_ a problem.
> >
> In case the msgstr is untranslated or fuzzy, doesnt the original msgid
> string show up on the interface? Hence if these strings are left blank
> the original msgid i.e. "some prefix|" would be used in the display,
> which beats the purpose of leaving out the prefix in the translation in
> the first place.
> Please correct me if I am wrong.

After reading the code with my untrained eyes, it seems gok handle
it specially:

if (has_level_2)
{
gok_modifier_add ("level2");
level2_string = g_utf8_strchr (level2_string, -1, '|');
if (level2_string) ++level2_string; /* works because '|' is one byte */
has_level_2 = strlen (level2_string) > 0;
}

Looks like gok is not using Q_() macros, and just strips
"anything|" returned from the string returned by gettext
call. So that means translating it into

msgstr "level 2|"

is actually fine. But I think it is still safer to ask gok developers...

Abel

>
> regards
> Runa
>
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Re: Strings with context wrongly translated in gtk+ and epiphany

[Abel Cheung]

On 9/13/06, David Lodge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This does lead to an interesting question though. gok has a selection of
> strings for extra characters on the keyboard, which may or may not exist,
> these are given a context. Translation of the first few levels is easy, as
> this is the normal lower case, upper case, symbols etc., but gok provides
> two extra levels (with a context) to allow extra characters. For en_GB
> this means that whence the context is removed the strings are empty.
>
> So I'm now getting "untranslated" strings on gok. (well only one as I
> added the Euro symbol to level2 :-) Any idea of how these strings should
> be translated?

That depends on how gok handles it. If transating it into anything
would adversely affect gok's behavior, I'd suggest not translating it.

Abel

>
> The strings from the .po file:
> #. Not used in C locale: this string can contain a third set of characters
> #. * at another 'shift level'.  It can be used to provide a
> second/alternate
> #. * glyph/character set for the locale, separately or in conjunction with
> #. * 'level 3'.  At the translator's discretion, accented characters can be
> #. * placed here and in 'level 3' as well.
> #.
> #.
> #. * Seldom-used or alternate characters can appear in levels 2 and 3 if
> necessary.
> #.
> #: ../gok/gok-keyboard.c:877 ../gok/gok-keyboard.c:933
> msgid "level 2|"
> msgstr "level 2|"
>
> #. For locales which need an even larger character set, or offer uppercase
> versions
> #. * of the 'level2' characters, add them to 'level 3'
> #: ../gok/gok-keyboard.c:880 ../gok/gok-keyboard.c:934
> msgid "level 3|"
> msgstr "level 3|"
>
> Thanks
>
> dave
>


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Re: Translation inconsistencies between libwnck and metacity

[Abel Cheung]

On 9/13/06, Christian Persch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> let's take a look at the menu that pop up when you left-click the a
> window's window icon (top left corner) under metacity, and at the one
> that pops up when you right-click a window's button in the window list
> applet (usually on the bottom panel). Those menus are identical in the
> source, but they differ in some translations because the same string has
> been translated differently in libwnck and metacity.
>
> Attached file contains a list of the affected strings for each locale
> concerned.

libwnck and metacity have quite many strings in common:

~/cvs/gnome-2.16$ msgcomm --more-than=1 libwnck/po/libwnck.pot
metacity/po/metacity.pot | grep '^msgid ".\+"'
msgid "Mi_nimize"
msgid "Unma_ximize"
msgid "Ma_ximize"
msgid "_Only on This Workspace"
msgid "_Always on Visible Workspace"
msgid "Workspace %d"
msgid "Workspace 1_0"
msgid "Workspace %s%d"
msgid "On _Top"
msgid "_Move"
msgid "_Resize"
msgid "_Close"
msgid "Move to Workspace _Left"
msgid "Move to Workspace R_ight"
msgid "Move to Workspace _Up"
msgid "Move to Workspace _Down"
msgid "Move to Another _Workspace"


Is this really necessary?

Abel

>
> Regards,
> Christian
>
>
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>
>
>


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Re: EOG branched for GNOME 2.16

[Abel Cheung]

On 9/7/06, Lucas Rocha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> EOG is branched for GNOME 2.16, the branch is called gnome-2-16.
> Future development work and bug fixing will be done in CVS head.

Thanks for the notice, translation status pages has already
updated the branch status several days ago.

Best,
Abel


>
> p eace
>
> --lucasr
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Re: Zenity branched for GNOME 2.16

[Abel Cheung]

On 9/7/06, Lucas Rocha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Zenity is branched for GNOME 2.16, the branch is called gnome-2-16.
> Future development work and bug fixing will be done in CVS head.

Thanks for the notice, translation status pages has already
updated the branch status several days ago.

Best,
Abel

>
> p eace
>
> --lucasr
> ___
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Re: Totem branched for GNOME 2.16

[Abel Cheung]

On 9/12/06, Bastien Nocera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Usual "gnome-2-16" branch name.

Thanks for the notice, translation status pages should reflect the new
branch with the next update.

Best,
Abel

>
> Cheers
>
> --
> Bastien Nocera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> "We talk about it for 20 minutes and then we decide I was right" - Brian
> Clough, on dealing with players who disagree with him.
>
>
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Re: Strings with context wrongly translated in gtk+ and epiphany

[Abel Cheung]

On 9/13/06, Christian Persch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I noticed there are still some translations for gtk+ and epiphany that
incorrectly translate strings with context ("this is context|this is the
string") to include either the literal context ("this is context|") or
even translate the context!

The following translations are concerned:
Epiphany:  dz ,ka ,lv ,mn ,ms ,ta ,uk
Gtk+:  el, hi, ka, lt, mk, pa, ru, ta


No, the list of translation files having problem is not restricted to
these. I attached a list of files with potential problems -- some of
the evolution files might be false positives, but translators would
definitely want to check all others. The file is generated against
gnome 2.16, that means some belongs to HEAD and others
belong to gnome-2-16 branch. Here is the command:

pcregrep -M -l 'msgid.*\|.*\nmsgstr.*\|' */po/*.po | egrep -v '^(gdm2|gconf)'

Abel




Regards,
Christian


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epiphany/po/dz.po
epiphany/po/ka.po
epiphany/po/lv.po
epiphany/po/mn.po
epiphany/po/ms.po
epiphany/po/ta.po
epiphany/po/uk.po
evolution-data-server/po/ar.po
evolution/po/ar.po
evolution/po/az.po
evolution/po/be.po
evolution/po/bg.po
evolution/po/bn_IN.po
evolution/po/bn.po
evolution/po/bs.po
evolution/po/ca.po
evolution/po/cs.po
evolution/po/cy.po
evolution/po/da.po
evolution/po/de.po
evolution/po/el.po
evolution/po/en_CA.po
evolution/po/en_GB.po
evolution/po/es.po
evolution/po/et.po
evolution/po/eu.po
evolution/po/fi.po
evolution/po/fr.po
evolution/po/ga.po
evolution/po/gl.po
evolution/po/gu.po
evolution/po/he.po
evolution/po/hi.po
evolution/po/hr.po
evolution/po/hu.po
evolution/po/id.po
evolution/po/it.po
evolution/po/ja.po
evolution/po/ko.po
evolution/po/lt.po
evolution/po/lv.po
evolution/po/mk.po
evolution/po/ml.po
evolution/po/mr.po
evolution/po/nb.po
evolution/po/ne.po
evolution/po/nl.po
evolution/po/nn.po
evolution/po/or.po
evolution/po/pl.po
evolution/po/pt_BR.po
evolution/po/pt.po
evolution/po/ro.po
evolution/po/ru.po
evolution/po/sk.po
evolution/po/sl.po
evolution/po/sq.po
evolution/po/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
evolution/po/sr.po
evolution/po/sv.po
evolution/po/ta.po
evolution/po/te.po
evolution/po/th.po
evolution/po/tr.po
evolution/po/uk.po
evolution/po/vi.po
evolution/po/xh.po
evolution/po/zh_CN.po
evolution/po/zh_HK.po
evolution/po/zh_TW.po
gnome-games/po/el.po
gnome-games/po/es.po
gnome-games/po/fa.po
gnome-games/po/id.po
gnome-games/po/lt.po
gnome-games/po/lv.po
gnome-games/po/mk.po
gnome-games/po/mr.po
gnome-games/po/nb.po
gnome-games/po/pa.po
gnome-games/po/ro.po
gnome-games/po/sq.po
gnome-games/po/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
gnome-games/po/sr.po
gnome-games/po/ta.po
gnome-games/po/vi.po
gnome-panel/po/br.po
gnome-panel/po/ca.po
gnome-panel/po/dz.po
gnome-panel/po/hi.po
gnome-panel/po/id.po
gnome-panel/po/ka.po
gnome-panel/po/ko.po
gnome-panel/po/mk.po
gnome-panel/po/mn.po
gnome-panel/po/nb.po
gnome-panel/po/ro.po
gnome-panel/po/sq.po
gnome-panel/po/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
gnome-panel/po/sr.po
gnopernicus/po/en_GB.po
gnopernicus/po/hi.po
gnopernicus/po/id.po
gnopernicus/po/lv.po
gnopernicus/po/mk.po
gnopernicus/po/pt_BR.po
gnopernicus/po/sq.po
gnopernicus/po/te.po
gnopernicus/po/tr.po
gok/po/ar.po
gok/po/az.po
gok/po/bg.po
gok/po/bn_IN.po
gok/po/bn.po
gok/po/ca.po
gok/po/cs.po
gok/po/cy.po
gok/po/da.po
gok/po/de.po
gok/po/el.po
gok/po/en_CA.po
gok/po/en_GB.po
gok/po/es.po
gok/po/eu.po
gok/po/fi.po
gok/po/fr.po
gok/po/gl.po
gok/po/gu.po
gok/po/hi.po
gok/po/hr.po
gok/po/hu.po
gok/po/id.po
gok/po/it.po
gok/po/ja.po
gok/po/ko.po
gok/po/lt.po
gok/po/lv.po
gok/po/mk.po
gok/po/ml.po
gok/po/mn.po
gok/po/mr.po
gok/po/ms.po
gok/po/nb.po
gok/po/ne.po
gok/po/nl.po
gok/po/or.po
gok/po/pa.po
gok/po/pl.po
gok/po/pt_BR.po
gok/po/pt.po
gok/po/ro.po
gok/po/ru.po
gok/po/rw.po
gok/po/sl.po
gok/po/sq.po
gok/po/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
gok/po/sr.po
gok/po/sv.po
gok/po/ta.po
gok/po/tr.po
gok/po/uk.po
gok/po/vi.po
gok/po/zh_CN.po
gok/po/zh_HK.po
gok/po/zh_TW.po
gtk+/po/bn_IN.po
gtk+/po/bn.po
gtk+/po/ca.po
gtk+/po/el.po
gtk+/po/en_GB.po
gtk+/po/hi.po
gtk+/po/id.po
gtk+/po/it.po
gtk+/po/ja.po
gtk+/po/ka.po
gtk+/po/ko.po
gtk+/po/mk.po
gtk+/po/nb.po
gtk+/po/pa.po
gtk+/po/ru.po
gtk+/po/ta.po
gtk+/po/vi.po
totem/po/bn_IN.po
totem/po/bn.po
totem/po/id.po
totem/po/ka.po
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Re: Information to translators and question

[Abel Cheung]

On 9/11/06, Danilo Šegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> > intltool-update include strings for the ggz pot file, or give gnome-games
> >> > special treatment on l10n-status.gnome.org?
> >
> > I would prefer an intltool-update modification to handle those
> > translations, instead of a hack in our side.
>
> That would suck(TM).  Abel, Andreas, if you insist on doing a hack,
> then simply create a .h file and add that one to POTFILES.in.

Making ggz strings into a .h file looks like a much cleaner hack
to me, much better than a change in intltool. In this way there
is even no need to create custom rule for automake.

How to generate header file from ggz .pot file is another
question though, though I guess it can be easily done
via a simple script.

Depending on how GGZ developers want to handle it, the
long term management might be through some other
project like Translation Project (www.iro.umontreal.ca/translation)

Abel


> There might be good reasoning to support PO/POT files as source files
> in intltool, but it's something to be well considered, not just
> stacked on top of current stuff.
>
> > Do you think that's possible? (I could get an intltool cvs version to
> > add support to status pages for it as soon as possible)
>
> We always want translators and status pages to use the same version of
> intltool, and with CVS version, it would be nearly impossible.
>
> > I do. But this should be handled also by danilo to prevent a regression
> > when the new status pages deprecate old system.
>
> And when our infrastructure is lacking, lets discuss how we can
> properly fix it.
>
> Cheers,
> Danilo
>


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Re: Last release on seahorse 0.8.x branch

[Abel Cheung]

On 9/9/06, Nate Nielsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The seahorse 0.8.x stable branch will mostly likely only have one more
> release: 0.8.4
>
> So the HEAD seahorse branch (ie: 0.9.x) is likely to be the one
> translators would prefer to focus on from here on out.

Do you mean 0.8.4 will be out soon, and translators should
switch their attention to 0.9.x after that release, or right now?

If it's former case, can you either announce the 0.8.4
release here, or give an approximate date about when
it will be released? Thanks!

Abel


>
> I hope that makes sense, and I'm not missing anything :)
>
> Cheers,
> Nate
>
>
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Re: Information to translators and question

[Abel Cheung]

On 9/9/06, Andreas Røsdal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Besides, many gnome translators get the pot/po file from
> > l10n-status.gnome.org, which (AFAIK) simply invoke intltool-update
> > to generate the pot/po files, thus your maneuver of pot file
> > would be all gone.
>
> Who is responsible for l10n-status.gnome.org? Would it be possible to make
> intltool-update include strings for the ggz pot file, or give gnome-games
> special treatment on l10n-status.gnome.org?

I think Carlos (CC'ed) is still responsible for that intrastructure.

Abel



>
> > One more thing, is including the translation inside gnome-games
> > enough to have localized ggz library?
>
> Yes, it "just works".
>
> > Should ggz library be
> > modified in order to fetch translation from gnome-games
> > text domain, or I'm wrong?
>
> No modification of GGZ is neccesary.
>
>   - Andreas
>


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Re: Information to translators and question

[Abel Cheung]

On 9/8/06, Andreas Røsdal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I would like some help with properly i18n'ing an optional, external
> library used in gnome-games, and would also like to involve the
> translators.

To those who don't know, it means adding real game server
support, and people from different countries can play together
once they have account on that server. Not just able to play
with people within the same LAN (zeroconf based).

My answer at the bottom


> The library ggz-gtk is used by gnome-games in the CVS HEAD branch now.
> However, it is not translated to more than a few languages, which could
> become a problem when it is used in GNOME. I therefore got suggestions to
> include the .pot file in gnome-games, to allow GNOME translators to
> translate it. The .pot files contains about two hundered strings, so the
> worm involved is not that large. The new translations will be merged back
> to ggz-gtk eventually.
>
> I have threrefore added a note to translators about this in
> po/README.TRANSLATORS, added po/ggz-gtk.pot which contains the strings to
> be translated, and started modifying po/Makefile.in.in.own to concatenate
> ggz-gtk.pot with the other strings in gnome-games.
>
> What I would like is first some help reviewing po/Makefile.in.in.own
> It concatenates the two pot files here:
> msgcat -s $(GETTEXT_PACKAGE).pot $(EXTRA_POT) -o $(GETTEXT_PACKAGE).pot
> However, I have noticed that it doe snot always work, since new
> translations committed to gnome-games do not contain the new strings from
> GGZ. I suppose the msgcat statement should be used other places in the
> makefiles as well. Any suggestions?
>
> Also, I hope that most translators now have been informed about the akward
> solution, and have understanding for the fact that I am only trying to
> make the i18n better, evern though the actual implementation is not very
> pretty.   :)

IMHO this is only an internim solution, not a permanent one, as
you would spend a lot of time syncing translation from ggz library
back and forth.

Besides, many gnome translators get the pot/po file from
l10n-status.gnome.org, which (AFAIK) simply invoke intltool-update
to generate the pot/po files, thus your maneuver of pot file
would be all gone.

AFAIK they have always been managing translation on their own
in the past, so in short term asking GNOME translators to help
translating is indeed a quick way to get it localized; however
I guess GGZ people may also need a long term managing of
the translations, otherwise latecomers may not be able to
see their translation show up inside ggz library.

One more thing, is including the translation inside gnome-games
enough to have localized ggz library? Should ggz library be
modified in order to fetch translation from gnome-games
text domain, or I'm wrong?

Abel


>
>   - Andreas
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Re: Epiphany branched for 2.16

[Abel Cheung]

On 9/4/06, Christian Persch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Epiphany is now branched for Gnome 2.16; the branch name is
> "gnome-2-16".

Thanks for the notice, translation status pages should reflect the new
branch with the next update.

Best,
Abel


>
> Regards,
> Christian
>
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Re: gcalctool branched for GNOME 2.16

[Abel Cheung]

On 9/4/06, Rich Burridge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I've just branched gcalctool for GNOME 2.16.  The branch is
> called "gnome-2-16". Future development work and bug fixing
> will be done in CVS HEAD.

Thanks for the notice, translation status pages should reflect the new
branch with the next update.

Best,
Abel

>
>
>
> ___
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Re: control-center branched for 2.16

[Abel Cheung]

On 9/6/06, Abel Cheung <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 9/4/06, Rodrigo Moya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > control-center has been branched for 2.16 (gnome-2-16 branch). In HEAD,
> > new development will start, which includes:
>
> Thanks for the notice, translation status pages should reflect the new
> branch with the next update.
>
> And please tell gnome-i18n and gnome-doc-list too next time, they
> also need to know which branch to spend their effort on.

Oh sorry, apparently Elijah has already said that...

Abel
>
> Best,
> Abel
>
>
> >
> > - probably, merging of some applets
> > - new control-center shell, probably the one from SLED
> > - improvements in the capplets
> > - bug fixes
> > --
> > Rodrigo Moya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> > ___
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> >
>
>
> --
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> Key fingerprint: 671C C7AE EFB5 110C D6D1  41EE 4152 E1F1 C671 86FF
> 
> * GNOME Hong Kong - http://www.gnome.hk/
> * Opensource Application Knowledge Assoc. - http://oaka.org/
> * My own cave: http://me.abelcheung.org/
>


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Re: control-center branched for 2.16

[Abel Cheung]

On 9/4/06, Rodrigo Moya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> control-center has been branched for 2.16 (gnome-2-16 branch). In HEAD,
> new development will start, which includes:

Thanks for the notice, translation status pages should reflect the new
branch with the next update.

And please tell gnome-i18n and gnome-doc-list too next time, they
also need to know which branch to spend their effort on.

Best,
Abel


>
> - probably, merging of some applets
> - new control-center shell, probably the one from SLED
> - improvements in the capplets
> - bug fixes
> --
> Rodrigo Moya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
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Re: gdm2 branched for GNOME 2.16

[Abel Cheung]

On 9/5/06, Brian Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> GDM is branched for GNOME 2.16, the branch is called gnome-2-16.
> Future development work and bug fixing will be done in CVS head.

Thanks for the notice, translation status pages should reflect the new
branch with the next update.

Best,
Abel


>
> Brian
> ___
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Re: gnome-utils branched for GNOME 2.16

[Abel Cheung]

On 9/4/06, Emmanuele Bassi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi all;
>
> I've just branched gnome-utils for the stable cycle.  The branch is
> called gnome-2-16; all new development will happen on HEAD.

Thanks for the notice, translation status pages should reflect the new
branch with the next update.

Best,
Abel


>
> Ciao,
>  Emmanuele.
>
> --
> Emmanuele Bassi,  E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> W: http://www.emmanuelebassi.net
> B: http://log.emmanuelebassi.net
>
> ___
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Re: [gnome-network] gnome-nettool branched

[Abel Cheung]

On 9/5/06, Germán Poó Caamaño <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> gnome-nettool has been branched for the next release cycle.
>
> gnome-2-16 will be the branch for next stable version while HEAD will be
> for develop.

Thanks for the notice, translation status pages should reflect the new
branch with the next update.

Best,
Abel



>
> Regards,
>
> --
> Germán Poó-Caamaño
> http://www.gnome.org/~gpoo/
>
>
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>
>
>
>


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Re: Tomboy branched for 2.16

[Abel Cheung]

On 9/5/06, Alex Graveley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hey,
>
> I just branched Tomboy for GNOME 2.16 release.  The branch is
> "gnome-2-16".  All new development will happen on HEAD.

Thanks for the notice, translation status pages should reflect the new
branch with the next update.

Best,
Abel


>
> Thanks,
> -Alex
> ___
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Re: gnome-games 2.16.0 released and branched for 2.17

[Abel Cheung]

On 9/5/06, Jason D. Clinton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> We have released gnome-games 2.16 and branched for 2.17.

Thanks for the notice, translation status pages should reflect the new
branch with the next update.

And please notify gnome-i18n and gnome-doc-list lists as well, they
also need to know when a cvs module is branched.

Best,
Abel




>
> Here is the NEWS file for this release:
>
> gnome-games 2.16.0
> ==
>
> Updated translations:
>
> * Turkish: Baris Cicek
> * Estonian: Ivar Smolin.
> * Bengali: Runa Bhattacharjee
> * Chinese (Hong Kong): Woodman Tuen
> * Chinese (Taiwan): Woodman Tuen
> * Marathi: Rahul Bhalerao.
> * Malayalam: Ani Peter
> * Ukrainian: Maxim Dziumanenko
> * Hindi: Rajesh Ranjan
> * Hungarian: Gabor Kelemen
> * Portuguese: Duarte Loreto
> * Latvian: Raivis Dejus
> * Oriya: Subhransu Behera
> * Lithuanian: Gintautas Miliauskas
> * Thai: Theppitak Karoonboonyanan
> * Catalan: Gil Forcada
>
> Known issues:
>
>   * Rasterizing the Mahjongg and Aisleriot playing field takes too
> long with the current SVG code paths. We, in cooperation with
> the Cairo team, hope to optimize this rendering speed during the
> maintenance of the 2.16 series.
>
>
>
> ___
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> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/games-list
>
>
>
>


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Re: Orca branched for GNOME 2.16

[Abel Cheung]

On 9/5/06, Rich Burridge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I've just branched Orca for GNOME 2.16.  The branch is
> called "gnome-2-16". Future development work and bug fixing
> will be done in CVS HEAD.

Thanks for the notice, translation status pages should reflect the new
branch with the next update.

Best,
Abel

>
> ___
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Re: Bundling all translations into release tarball

[Abel Cheung]

On 9/1/06, Daniel Nylander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Can you please check help/DOC_LINGUAS too?
> There might be some translations done that is missing from the DOC_LINGUAS

I guess my time is too tight to do doc checking as well, since
everybody is rushing to get their translation into gnome,
and I'm no different.

Besides, since the tarball release time is too near, I wouldn't
want to risk breaking the build of tarball at such a time.
Perhaps it can be done after release. So far I only notice
3 docs not added into DOC_LINGUAS:

uk in eog/help
hu in gnome-power-manager/help
uk in gnome-terminal/help

Abel

>
> Daniel
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Re: Bundling all translations into release tarball

[Abel Cheung]

On 9/1/06, Wouter Bolsterlee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> JFYI, a quick glace at my local Gnome sources gives me the following list of
> modules that do NOT use po/LINGUAS

[list of cvs modules...]

Yes, I forgot to say, I also added those not using po/LINGUAS
but configure.in or configure.ac. However it's for platform and
desktop release only. I don't have too much time to check all
gnome cvs modules thoroughly right now.

Abel


>
>   mvrgr, Wouter
>
> --
> :wq   mail [EMAIL 
> PROTECTED]
>   web http://uwstopia.nl
>
> child's rhyme stuck in my head :: said that life is but a dream  -- tool
>
>
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iD8DBQFE+CN8P7QTTiUKY+sRAhZvAJ9+4SqfNtX6ZMYMysNGyidCvrq5+wCfSvCT
> V1UDxmhxr9PYTCZMJ5SBl8I=
> =1cU2
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>
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>
>
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Re: or is there in LINGUAS !

[Abel Cheung]

On 9/1/06, subhransu behera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> or is there in the LINGUAS file for gnome-keyring-manager and gnome-media.
>
> However, it was missing for zenity and I have fixed the same.
>
> Please confirm the inconsistency that you have found for the other two.

It's because you are checking the files at the exact time gap
I'm doing the update, so the result appears inconsistent.

Abel


>
> Regards,
> Subhransu
>
>
>  
>  Here's a new way to find what you're looking for - Yahoo! Answers
>  Send FREE SMS to your friend's mobile from Yahoo! Messenger Version 8. Get
> it NOW
>
>
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>
>
>


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Re: Bundling all translations into release tarball

[Abel Cheung]

On 9/1/06, Abel Cheung <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 9/1/06, Abel Cheung <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > There are many translations committed into cvs, yet there is no
> > corresponding entry in LINGUAS or ALL_LINGUAS. 99.9% of
> > them is due to lack of such knowledge or forgetfulness instead
> > of intentionally not adding them. So I'm going ahead and add
> > them into (ALL_)LINGUAS for lib platform and desktop.
>
> My script somehow clobbered po/ChangeLog for the modules,
> now fixing.

Now all changelogs should be restored, and I've added all
other missing entries into LINGUAS. Haven't checked those
cvs modules without po/LINGUAS yet.

Abel

>

> Abel
>
>
>
>
> >
> > To developers: If it causes any build breakage, please feel free
> > to flame me so that I can fix them and/or email corresponding
> > language maintainers, instead of silently eliminating the entry.
> > Fixing error is always better than hiding them. Though I don't
> > expect problems to occur because po files should have been
> > checked before entering cvs.
> >
> > To translators: please remember to add the code representing
> > your language into po/LINGUAS, or in the ALL_LINGUAS
> > line in configure.in/configure.ac; otherwise translations WOULD
> > NOT be bundled into tarball. If any of the translation
> > shouldn't be bundled, please tell me too.
> >
> > The po files with missing LINGUAS entries are attached with
> > this email.
> >
> > Best,
> > Abel
> > --
> > Abel Cheung   (GPG Key: 0xC67186FF)
> > Key fingerprint: 671C C7AE EFB5 110C D6D1  41EE 4152 E1F1 C671 86FF
> > 
> > * GNOME Hong Kong - http://www.gnome.hk/
> > * Opensource Application Knowledge Assoc. - http://oaka.org/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Abel Cheung   (GPG Key: 0xC67186FF)
> Key fingerprint: 671C C7AE EFB5 110C D6D1  41EE 4152 E1F1 C671 86FF
> 
> * GNOME Hong Kong - http://www.gnome.hk/
> * Opensource Application Knowledge Assoc. - http://oaka.org/
>


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Re: Bundling all translations into release tarball

[Abel Cheung]

On 9/1/06, Abel Cheung <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> There are many translations committed into cvs, yet there is no
> corresponding entry in LINGUAS or ALL_LINGUAS. 99.9% of
> them is due to lack of such knowledge or forgetfulness instead
> of intentionally not adding them. So I'm going ahead and add
> them into (ALL_)LINGUAS for lib platform and desktop.

My script somehow clobbered po/ChangeLog for the modules,
now fixing.

Abel




>
> To developers: If it causes any build breakage, please feel free
> to flame me so that I can fix them and/or email corresponding
> language maintainers, instead of silently eliminating the entry.
> Fixing error is always better than hiding them. Though I don't
> expect problems to occur because po files should have been
> checked before entering cvs.
>
> To translators: please remember to add the code representing
> your language into po/LINGUAS, or in the ALL_LINGUAS
> line in configure.in/configure.ac; otherwise translations WOULD
> NOT be bundled into tarball. If any of the translation
> shouldn't be bundled, please tell me too.
>
> The po files with missing LINGUAS entries are attached with
> this email.
>
> Best,
> Abel
> --
> Abel Cheung   (GPG Key: 0xC67186FF)
> Key fingerprint: 671C C7AE EFB5 110C D6D1  41EE 4152 E1F1 C671 86FF
> 
> * GNOME Hong Kong - http://www.gnome.hk/
> * Opensource Application Knowledge Assoc. - http://oaka.org/
>
>
>


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Bundling all translations into release tarball

[Abel Cheung]

Hi,

There are many translations committed into cvs, yet there is no
corresponding entry in LINGUAS or ALL_LINGUAS. 99.9% of
them is due to lack of such knowledge or forgetfulness instead
of intentionally not adding them. So I'm going ahead and add
them into (ALL_)LINGUAS for lib platform and desktop.

To developers: If it causes any build breakage, please feel free
to flame me so that I can fix them and/or email corresponding
language maintainers, instead of silently eliminating the entry.
Fixing error is always better than hiding them. Though I don't
expect problems to occur because po files should have been
checked before entering cvs.

To translators: please remember to add the code representing
your language into po/LINGUAS, or in the ALL_LINGUAS
line in configure.in/configure.ac; otherwise translations WOULD
NOT be bundled into tarball. If any of the translation
shouldn't be bundled, please tell me too.

The po files with missing LINGUAS entries are attached with
this email.

Best,
Abel
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alacarte/fi.po
alacarte/nl.po
alacarte/sl.po
evolution/ml.po
evolution-data-server/ta.po
evolution-exchange/eu.po
evolution-exchange/mn.po
evolution-webcal/zh_HK.po
fast-user-switch-applet/dz.po
fast-user-switch-applet/fr.po
fast-user-switch-applet/id.po
fast-user-switch-applet/mk.po
fast-user-switch-applet/ne.po
fast-user-switch-applet/nl.po
fast-user-switch-applet/ru.po
gdm2/hy.po
gedit/hy.po
gedit/ku.po
gedit/rw.po
gedit/te.po
gedit/xh.po
gnome-backgrounds/mk.po
gnome-backgrounds/nn.po
gnome-backgrounds/ru.po
gnome-keyring/gu.po
gnome-keyring/hi.po
gnome-keyring/mk.po
gnome-keyring/vi.po
gnome-keyring-manager/or.po
gnome-mag/kn.po
gnome-mag/mk.po
gnome-mag/ml.po
gnome-media/br.po
gnome-media/dz.po
gnome-media/or.po
gnome-menus/be.po
gnome-screensaver/id.po
gnome-system-tools/fa.po
gnopernicus/ku.po
gnopernicus/mk.po
gnopernicus/ml.po
gok/ang.po
gok/sk.po
gok/tr.po
gucharmap/dz.po
libgnomeprintui/dz.po
libgtop/dz.po
libwnck/dz.po
metacity/dz.po
pessulus/ru.po
nautilus/dz.po
nautilus/hy.po
nautilus-cd-burner/dz.po
nautilus-cd-burner/hy.po
orca/el.po
orca/hi.po
orca/nb.po
orca/ta.po
sabayon/mk.po
sabayon/ru.po
sound-juicer/dz.po
totem/dz.po
vino/dz.po
yelp/dz.po
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Re: Translating plural forms with different c-formats

[Abel Cheung]

On 8/28/06, Theppitak Karoonboonyanan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > For the real fix, you can remove any entry containing
> > msgstr[1], leaving only msgstr[0].
>
> Yes, I know that, as I said I had tried to do so to all PO's
> under my maintenance. However, my question is for certain
> cases where c-format string with plural form is shared
> with some non-c-format. And there is actually _no_way_
> to cover both with a single msgstr[0] entry without messing
> one of the two. Please read my first post for the details.

In that case there is need to file bug report. You can take
a look at the following bug for example:

http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=167344

Best,
Abel

>
> -Thep.
> --
> Theppitak Karoonboonyanan
> http://linux.thai.net/~thep/
>


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Re: Translating plural forms with different c-formats

[Abel Cheung]

Hi Theppitak,

On 8/27/06, Theppitak Karoonboonyanan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> My language has no plural form. And I recently got some
> complaint that having more than one msgstr[] while
> declaring nplurals=1 blocks the build due to  gettext error.
> So, I try to examine if there are other such errors left in
> any other packages.

I'm afraid you are using gettext >= 0.15, as it is more strict in
checking plural form and mark inconsistent Plural-Forms and
actually translation as error. gettext < 0.15 just ignore it and
wouldn't complain.

For the real fix, you can remove any entry containing
msgstr[1], leaving only msgstr[0].

Abel


>
> Actually, gedit was the one that gave me the impression
> of the needs to keep multiple msgstr[] entries, even if
> nplurals is 1.
>
> For example:
>
> #: ../gedit/dialogs/gedit-close-confirmation-dialog.c:451
> #: ../gedit/dialogs/gedit-close-confirmation-dialog.c:472
> #, c-format
> msgid "If you don't save, changes from the last hour will be permanently 
> lost."
> msgid_plural ""
> "If you don't save, changes from the last %d hours will be permanently lost."
>
> This comes from the merge of two string occurrences, one is c-format
> and the other is not:
>
> #: ../gedit/dialogs/gedit-close-confirmation-dialog.c:451
> secondary_msg = g_strdup (_("If you don't save,
> changes from the last hour "
> "will be
> permanently lost."));
>
> and:
>
> #: ../gedit/dialogs/gedit-close-confirmation-dialog.c:472
> secondary_msg = g_strdup_printf (
> ngettext ("If you don't save,
> changes from the last hour "
>   "will be permanently lost.",
>   "If you don't save,
> changes from the last %d hours "
>   "will be permanently lost.",
>   hours),
> hours);
>
> So, if I have to choose only one translation, one of the two
> will be messed up. That is, with %d in the translation, the former
> case will confuse user with "%d" appearing in the string;
> without %d, the latter will loose the number information.
>
> The same appears here as well:
> #: ../gedit/gedit-commands-file.c:1184 ../gedit/gedit-commands-file.c:1205
>
> How should I do with this?
>
> --
> Theppitak Karoonboonyanan
> http://linux.thai.net/~thep/
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Re: Modules to kill

[Abel Cheung]

On 7/31/06, Bastien Nocera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Vincent spammed me earlier (and he even used a foreign language we both
> talk to express himself), about killing some of the old modules I wrote.
>
> As it can probably be useful for later, I'll also explain the
> replacement options. Those modules should be moved to the archives part
> of the CVS, and stop being translated.

Does acme belong to the list as well?

Abel


>
> uf-view, replaced by Buoh: http://buoh.steve-o.org/
> qahog, deprecated by libgpod
> walk500, deprecated by the deprecated rio500 gnome-vfs method in the
> gnome-vfs-extras (because nobody has a rio500 anymore)
> veepnc, deprecated by the vpnc support in NetworkManager
>
> Cheers
>
> --
> Bastien Nocera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
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Re: Markup in messages

[Abel Cheung]

On 7/25/06, Behdad Esfahbod <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This is the wrongest approach to solve this problem, and indeed what
> Roozbeh has had in mind.  In the case of Chinese fonts with no bold
> variant, there are a lot of possibilities on Linux.  First, with the
> latest version of the text rendering stack, we should be emboldening for
> you on the fly.  Second, if you want to replace bold with italic, you
> can do that with a fontconfig configuration file.  There is a bug
> against Pango to make artificial bold and italic faces even show in the
> font selection widget.  That way, there's really no excuse to not use
> bold faces (unless you are dealing with a bitmap font of course).

As I replied in another subthread, that kind of approach is
of course wrong, _right now_. Artificial emboldening is
available for quite some time in freetype, and works for
chinese (though distro only catch up around 1 yr ago).
In the old days things are a bit different -- there is
no artificial embolden in freetype, no fontconfig/xft,
nothing.

Abel

>
> > Of course in most cases the proper 'fix' is to have a boldtype
> > font. But creating a boldface font is not always that easy,
> > when one is talking about complex scripts that consists of
> > at least hundreds or thousands of glyphs; and it needs quite
> > some human horsepower as well, which may not be available for
> > newly available languages in F/OSS world.
> >
> > Abel
>
> --
> behdad
> http://behdad.org/
>
> "Commandment Three says Do Not Kill, Amendment Two says Blood Will Spill"
> -- Dan Bern, "New American Language"
>
>


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Re: Markup in messages

[Abel Cheung]

On 7/25/06, Christian Rose <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Of course in most cases the proper 'fix' is to have a boldtype
> > font. But creating a boldface font is not always that easy,
> > when one is talking about complex scripts that consists of
> > at least hundreds or thousands of glyphs; and it needs quite
> > some human horsepower as well, which may not be available for
> > newly available languages in F/OSS world.
>
> I understand that problem, but I for sure don't agree that this is the
> proper way to fix it, as this hack, that is, gratiously including
> surrounding markup inside the translateable message content, causes a
> lot of problems for all translators. As a translator you want to
> translate the *content*, not the surrounding presentation. I don't
> care whether the words will be written on a billboard, a folder, or
> on-screen, the words will be the same. As Clytie explained:
[..]

I didn't say my mind clearly. What I want to say is, I don't
like such kind of hack either, but it has really existed
before. Right now such workaround is no more needed.

Abel

> Here are some ways to solve the problem of bad rendering:
>
> 1) Fix the fonts. Agreed, not an easy task.
> 2) Solve the problem at the Pango level. Instead of encouraging the
> use of  and  tags, add abstract ,  tags/attributes
> or some such, allowing for different interpretations for different
> scripts. If we know that boldface fonts for Persian always suck,
>  can have a different representation for Persian script.
> Then the HIG and other such specifications can specify these
> attributes instead of a particular font style.
>
>
> And here's how to solve the (ab)use of using surrounding PangoMarkup
> inside translateable messages:
>
> 3) Make gtk+/Pango have support for *attributes* instead of forcing
> everyone to use PangoMarkup. If I want a label to be bold, italic,
> smaller, or larger, I as a developer should be able to simply set
> attributes to that effect. Right now, it's too common to see something
> like this:
>
> msgid "Bug Buddy"
> msgstr "Bug Buddy"
>
> msgid "Date & Time"
> msgstr "Datum och tid"
>
> msgid "Date & Time"
> msgstr "Datum och tid"
>
> msgid "No file"
> msgstr "Ingen fil"
>
> msgid "No file"
> msgstr "Ingen fil"
>
> Often, you will have duplicated messages in the same file, just with
> different markup!
>
> If gtk+/Pango and libglade would make it possible for application
> writers to set *attributes* for these things instead of having to
> resort to PangoMarkup, all problems would be solved.
>
>
> Christian
>


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Re: Markup in messages

[Abel Cheung]

On 7/18/06, Christian Rose <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Behdad, this is about http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=347110
> -- it was only recently that I discovered that you have included a
> section about markup to http://live.gnome.org/GnomeI18nDeveloperTips :
>
> "Following is a list of examples that need to be marked for
> translation, but were not in some cases:
> [...]
> '%s': That is an innocent way to mark something to make it
> boldface in the interface, to emphasize importance or make it a
> header. But not every language has a concept of modern boldface
> typefaces, or even if it has such fonts, they may not be the preferred
> font for such kind of emphasis."
>
> So are you suggesting that developers include the surrounding markup
> in the translateable message, in case you may need to change it for
> Persian for rendering purposes?

My guess is that they are just reluctant to changing anything
not visually beneficial, not that they have already foreseen
the problem. But to make an excuse, this is a good
one, especially when what Behdad said is valid. I have been
bitten by this kind of markup/font issues myself.

Due to absense of freely available boldface Chinese font, I
have seen somebody translate things like:

msgid "%s"
msgstr "%s"

in order to distinguish it from normal text.

Of course in most cases the proper 'fix' is to have a boldtype
font. But creating a boldface font is not always that easy,
when one is talking about complex scripts that consists of
at least hundreds or thousands of glyphs; and it needs quite
some human horsepower as well, which may not be available for
newly available languages in F/OSS world.

Abel

>
>
> Christian
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Re: Question regarding fuzzy messages in po files

[Abel Cheung]

Hi Shane,

On 6/28/06, Shane Wims <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have a quick question about fuzzy translations in po files.
> When po files are compiled to mo files, are the fuzzy translations included 
> or is the source string included instead?

IIRC it depends on the OS. For Linux, the string in source code
is used, as other say. But for some other gettext implementation,
say in Solaris, I have the impression that the fuzzy string is
STILL used.

Abel

>
> regards
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Shane Wims
> Localisation Engineer
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> +35316058293
> Novell, Inc.
> Software for the Open Enterprise
> http://www.novell.com/open
>
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Re: ATK and AT-SPI branched for gnome-2-14

[Abel Cheung]

Hi all,

Apparently Bill has branched atk for gnome 2.14, but the
announcement doesn't show in gnome-i18n due to typing error
(gnome-18n-list vs gnome-i18n).

Abel


On 6/12/06, Bill Haneman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ATK and AT-SPI have branched for gnome-2.14.  New stuff is on HEAD,
> stable development should use the 2-14 branch.
>
> I haven't made a new release since the branch yet, perhaps today (AT-SPI
> HEAD depends, for the moment, on ATK HEAD).
>
> regards
>
> Bill
>
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Re: gconf branched?

[Abel Cheung]

On 5/6/06, Josep Puigdemont <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

May Has gconf silently branched, maybe?


It is done, but not silently, kmaraas has announced it.
http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-i18n/2006-May/msg00010.html

Abel



/Josep


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Re: scim smart pinyin option

[Abel Cheung]

Hi Shakthi,

On 5/11/06, Shakthi Kannan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I am using Ubuntu Dapper Beta on IBM T41, x86. I have scim-chinese,
scim-pinyin and other necessary software installed.

When I open gedit, change input method to SCIM input method, I get a
small toolbar which gives me options to choose the input method. Under
Simplified Chinese, I get only these options:


gnome-i18n is for discussing translation issues for gnome. For
Ubuntu specific user related questions, you can visit
http://ubuntuforums.org/ and ask there.

Abel





- Erbi
- Erbi-QS
- Wubi
- Ziranma
- 

I don't seem to have an entry for "Smart Pinyin" although the SCIM
config setup has a Smart Pinyin entry and have enabled necessary
options.

1. What do I need to install/configure to get this smart pinyin option?

2. What is the recommended easier/comprehensive input method for
chinese input - smart pinyin, intelligent pinyin (can't see this
option either), fcitx (no english documentation), or any other?

Thanks,

SK

--
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http://www.shakthimaan.com

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Re: gedit branched for 2.14

[Abel Cheung]

On 3/23/06, Paolo Borelli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Don't forget to branch gedit-plugins too.
> gedit-plugins is dead and it's been dead for a long time. Beside even if

Danilo, is it a good idea to remove gedit-plugins from translation
status page since it won't be active at least the short future?

Abel


> it wasn't, it's not part of the desktop so it would probably not follow
> the branching and freezing rules closely.
>
> Paolo
>
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Re: Quick brown fox

[Abel Cheung]

On 3/16/06, Joachim Noreiko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Wikipedia has a list of pangrams, at
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pangram
> > As it might be difficult to find pangrams for your
> > language, a common
> > alternative is to list the alphabet.
>
> So is this something that is currently translated in
> the interface?

Yes, in whatever you like, but most preferably list some alphabets
available in your language in order to test if display of these glyphs
works fine.

Abel

PS I'd want to list all tens of thousands of glyphs for chinese..


>
>
>
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Re: kn.po breaking build in vte

[Abel Cheung]

On 3/9/06, Behdad Esfahbod <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Strange, I am pretty sure I did found something wrong with kn.po
> > and then commit every changed files. Anyway, I'll try to fix it by
> > marking the wrong place as fuzzy and email translator, because
> > the kannada translation is not actively maintained (last updated
> > 2003).
>
> It would also help if you update the metadata at the beginning of
> the file to list who the translator is and other stuff.  If

Also done.


> translations have not been updated since 2003, maybe we should
> disable them and wait for somebody to step up...

This is not a strong reason, though in reality I'd tend to agree.
Providing bad translation has one advantage: users will be more
annoyed, and more willing to participate and help fixing it :-P

Abel

>
>
> > Abel
> >
> >
> > >
> > > --behdad
> > > http://behdad.org/
> > >
> > > "Commandment Three says Do Not Kill, Amendment Two says Blood Will Spill"
> > > -- Dan Bern, "New American Language"
> > > _______
> > > gnome-i18n mailing list
> > > gnome-i18n@gnome.org
> > > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
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> > 
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> >
>
> --behdad
> http://behdad.org/
>
> "Commandment Three says Do Not Kill, Amendment Two says Blood Will Spill"
> -- Dan Bern, "New American Language"
>


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Re: kn.po breaking build in vte

[Abel Cheung]

On 3/9/06, Behdad Esfahbod <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> The 'kn.po' that you added to configure.in in vte was breaking
> build badly, and so removed.  Don't you ever msgfmt translations
> before hooking them up?

Strange, I am pretty sure I did found something wrong with kn.po
and then commit every changed files. Anyway, I'll try to fix it by
marking the wrong place as fuzzy and email translator, because
the kannada translation is not actively maintained (last updated
2003).

Abel


>
> --behdad
> http://behdad.org/
>
> "Commandment Three says Do Not Kill, Amendment Two says Blood Will Spill"
> -- Dan Bern, "New American Language"
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Re: Page listing Localisation Bugs - please check

[Abel Cheung]

On 1/3/06, Simos Xenitellis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Currently there are two remarks on the Bugzilla Localisation Page
> 1. There are a few reports pending for French. Is there a member of the
> French team around to trim these down?

Not only French, this is the same for quite a few teams, which have
very old bugs not cleared.

Abel


> 2. Quite a few languages are present in the Bugzilla localisation page
> due to the weather applet issue.
> This gives the opportunity to try out Bugzilla and make sure the
> settings are ok for your language.
>
> Bugzilla is a formal bug reporting and handling tool. Spending time to
> learn and use it is a good skill to develop.
>
> If you have any queries, feel free to post them here.
>
> Simos
>
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Re: Establishing zh_HK team

[Abel Cheung]

On 1/3/06, Christian Rose <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I see the teams are now named "Chinese (China)", "Chinese (Taiwan)",
> and "Chinese (Hong Kong)", instead of the old "Chinese (simplified)"
> and "Chinese (traditional)".
> Is this naming really politically correct? I mean, there is probably a
> good reason the translations are commonly called "traditional" and
> "simplified", instead of anything else, in other projects and other
> software.

The words "simplified" and "traditional" only refers to the set of
glyphs usable; those using simplified glyphs include mainland China,
Malaysia and Singapore. OTOH, those using "traditional" (and more
complex as well) are Taiwan, Hong Kong and Macau people. However,
"simplified" and "traditional" doesn't distinguish the subtle wording
and locale (such as time/date etc) differences between all these districts.


> For GNOME, it is probably important to use conventional namings where
> possible, instead of names that may be offensive in some way, if we
> can avoid it.
> But I'm no expert. So are you sure this will be ok?

This also happens in KDE too; KDE people are asking me the same question.
Using _geographical_ district name is the only way to avoid offence so far,
yet able to distinguish the difference of each district, and make the
naming expandable in the future.
In particular, using ISO names is almost certain to generate huge flamewar;
Debian has stepped into that hole before. Of course, this would need zh_CN
team's agreement as well. But seems I can't reach Funda Wang these days.
Funda, are you here?

Abel


>
>
> Christian
>


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Re: Formatting a date/time string

[Abel Cheung]

ave times etc. be formatted according to their own locale, since
> doing it like this and hooking up the date/time display in the
> translations makes the time display be dependant on the display
> language. But it is probably the best thing to do right now, until we
> have something better.
>
> Christian
>
>  I don't have any idea of the weakness in having locale control
> everything...
>  but you do, so I'm all ears. For right now, I think that someone who chose
> "en-us"
>  would accept, with just a little frustration, the resulting (weird)
> MM/DD/.
>
>
>
>
>
>  The standard way to do it is using whatever makes sense to use for
> United States English that strftime offers (say "%b %e, %y ..."), then
> make it translatable with a comment like: "translators should try to
> make this as short as possible, while mentioning the complete date and
> mentioning both minutes and hours in the translation". Something like
> that.
>
>
>  I *don't* like this-- most of the world is -MM-DD, we shouldn't
> hard-code the WEIRD
>  en-us as the standard. (But mostly, I suspect that we won't have to...
> testing shortly).
>
>
>  We will try to make date and time formatting better in Giulia
> (http://live.gnome.org/LocaleProject), possibly even as the
> first
> priority, but the project is currently inactive because of the very
> limited developer resources.
>
> roozbeh
>
>
>  There are programming errors which I need to fix (this was, after all,
>  my first attempt at C... ever). With Federico's direction,
>  I hope to have a revised patch up tomorrow. I'll try too 'diff' it as an
> actual patch, rather than
>  raw code.
>
>  Question: Is there a reason why we do private email instead of posting to
> the bug?
>
>  Thank you all so much!
>  Rick
>
>
>


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Re: Formatting a date/time string

[Abel Cheung]

On 12/29/05, Federico Mena Quintero <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Rick Stockton has been looking into adding a Time field to
> GtkFileChooser:
>
> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=324543
>
> Nautilus seems to use a plain "%c" format for strftime(), but that seems
> to produce really long strings.
>
> Is there a standard format string that we can use to produce a short
> representation of the date and time?  Or should we just use %c and
> assume that the locale data will be acceptable to the user?

%c poses some usability annoyance since the file dialog will be either very
large, or the date/time part is simply hidden under cover and users have
to scroll horizontally before seeing it.

If short string is more desired, I'd suggest showing only the time if
modification time is within 1 day, and only showing the date if more than
1 day. And use ISO8601 format for date representation as well:
"%Y-%m-%d". This avoids ambiguity. For display of time, perhaps
the seconds part can be removed as well?

And of course, make the string translatable is the best thing to do, since
translators can decide if there are any better date/time representation
for their own language.

Abel

>
> Thanks,
>
>   Federico
>
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Re: xml2po (gnome-doc-utils)

[Abel Cheung]

On 12/27/05, Clytie Siddall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Pearl:~/Vietnamese/Main Projects/Gnome/gnome-doc-utils/xml2po clytie
> $ ./xml2po.py -o vi.po vi.xml
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>File "./xml2po.py", line 34, in ?
>  import libxml2
> ImportError: No module named libxml2
> 

The python binding of libxml2 is probably missing from system.
You can search for file named libxml2.py under python install
location (assuming it's /usr/lib/python2.4 here)

$ find /usr/lib/python2.4 -name 'libxml2.py' -print

If it's not found, indeed you must install the missing part.

Abel

>
> I have libxml2 in my $PATH.
>
> Do I need to install the whole gnome-doc-utils? Or is there something
> else I need to do differently?
>
> Thanks for any help you can offer. :)
>
> from Clytie (vi-VN, Vietnamese free-software translation team / nhóm
> Việt hóa phần mềm tự do)
> http://groups-beta.google.com/group/vi-VN
>
>
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Re: non-latin accelerator keys

[Abel Cheung]

On 12/22/05, Matthias Clasen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > I have a number of questions here:
> > > - Does this sound like a reasonable thing to do ? (the risk of
> > >   accidentally stripping something thats not an accelerator is
> > >   probably minimal, but not 0.
> >
> > Indeed, there can be cases where a single CJK character is enclosed inside
> > parenthesis, and that's not uncommon; although when enclosed
> > character is a latin character it mostly means mnemonic key.
>
> But in the case of a single CJK character in parenthesis, it will likely
> not have an _ before it, right ?

Oh yes, you're correct :-)


> > > - Is the (_F) approach generally considered just a workaround for
> > >   the second bug, or are there languages where it is the
> > >   preferred/standard way to display accel keys ?
> >
> > Well, it is preferred, since multiple keystrokes are needed to input
> > non-latin characters, and I doubt if anything like Alt- can
> > be entered at all. Hope anybody can enlighten me if this is
> > possible or not.
> >
>
> No, as you said, you normally need multiple keystrokes, unless you use
> an exotic keymap.

Not an exotic keymap, but an exotic keyboard that has 60,000+ keys ;-)
Anyway, this is probably technically an excellent thing to do, but from
usability POV it can be bad for CJK users (even if it can be implemented).
The most efficient way for activating items is Alt plus a single keystroke,
needing multiple keystrokes will reduce the efficiency. The problem is
tied to the hardware (keyboard) instead of bug #104112 for CJK users,
and I don't think too much can be done except stripping extra mnemonic
keys and parenthesis.

However, for other languages, I'm not sure at all, so others can shed
some light on it.

Greetings,
Abel

>
> >  The other bug asks for a way to underline a character in the label,
> > > but have a different character as accel key.  I wrote patches which
> > > change the Pango/GTK+ behaviour in the following way:
> > >
> > > f_oo  -> o underlined, accel key o
> > > f_[x]oo  -> o underlined, accel key x
> > >
> > > Essentially the same questions here:
> > > - Does this sound like a reasonable thing to do ? (the risk of
> > >   accidentally stripping something thats not an accelerator is
> > >   probably minimal, but not 0.
> >
> > One question not entirely related: let's say "f_[x]oo", is there
> > any hint or visual indication that the accel key is "x" not "o"?
>
> No, but the use case for this is probably situations where the user
> understand that the underlined 'o' means that he has to press the x
> key. E.g. if there is a standard input method which maps the x key
> to the 'o' character.

I see. Something like "gl_[u]ücklich", so pressing alt-u can activate the
item?


>
> Matthias
>
>


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Re: non-latin accelerator keys

[Abel Cheung]

Hi,

On 12/22/05, Matthias Clasen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=323956
> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=104112
>
> The first bug complains about the fact that the "(_F)" form in which
> many CJK strings display the accelerator is not fully stripped out
> when showing the string in a toolbar, and you end up with "(F)" in
> the visible string.
>
> I am considering to change gtk_toolbar_elide_underscores() to strip not
> only lone _ characters, but also a sequence of the form " (_ character>)" at the end of the string.
>
> I have a number of questions here:
> - Does this sound like a reasonable thing to do ? (the risk of
>   accidentally stripping something thats not an accelerator is
>   probably minimal, but not 0.

Indeed, there can be cases where a single CJK character is enclosed inside
parenthesis, and that's not uncommon; although when enclosed
character is a latin character it mostly means mnemonic key.


> - Is the (_F) approach generally considered just a workaround for
>   the second bug, or are there languages where it is the
>   preferred/standard way to display accel keys ?

Well, it is preferred, since multiple keystrokes are needed to input
non-latin characters, and I doubt if anything like Alt- can
be entered at all. Hope anybody can enlighten me if this is
possible or not.


> - Are there any variations of this ? Eg does any language display
>   accel keys by prefixing the label with  <<_f>> ?

I have seen (and personally used it in very rare case) a key enclosed
in square bracket: "[_F]". But that's very rare.

>
>
> The other bug asks for a way to underline a character in the label,
> but have a different character as accel key.  I wrote patches which
> change the Pango/GTK+ behaviour in the following way:
>
> f_oo  -> o underlined, accel key o
> f_[x]oo  -> o underlined, accel key x
>
> Essentially the same questions here:
> - Does this sound like a reasonable thing to do ? (the risk of
>   accidentally stripping something thats not an accelerator is
>   probably minimal, but not 0.

One question not entirely related: let's say "f_[x]oo", is there
any hint or visual indication that the accel key is "x" not "o"?

Abel

>
> - Which languages would actually benefit from this ? Ie which languages
>   are currently forced to use the (_F) suffix approach, but would
>   rather underline a non-latin character in the translated string ?
>
>
> Matthias
>
>
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Establishing zh_HK team

[Abel Cheung]

Hi,

I'd like to establish a new translation team -- well, put it strictly this
isn't a new transation team at all, but another variant of Chinese.
This is due to the fact that the usage of Taiwan and Hong Kong
wordings are starting to become incompatible gradually, and right
now there is need to seperate translations.

For the purpose of adding bugzilla component, the language name
would better be "Chinese (Hong Kong)". And please make me
(deaddog AT deaddog.org) the default owner of zh_HK component.

At the translation side, both zh_HK and zh_TW would be handled by
the same team of people with conversion script. (this situation is
like sr and [EMAIL PROTECTED])

One final thing: is any gnome i18n info website still listing my old
address (maddog AT linux.org.hk)? That address is no more reachable
by me, so I attempted to change it in gnomeweb-wml; is there
anywhere that I should look at too?

Thanks ahead for the attention!
Abel
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Re: New project to translate : Nautilus-actions

[Abel Cheung]

On 12/18/05, Clytie Siddall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> What is involved in "starting the translation process"? I can't find
> nautilus-actions on the status pages.

It has been moved to "proposed" section.

Abel

>
> Thanks for any explanations. :)
>
> from Clytie (vi-VN, Vietnamese free-software translation team / nhóm
> Việt hóa phần mềm tự do)
> http://groups-beta.google.com/group/vi-VN
>
> [1] not well enough, just getting back to some translation now
>
>
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Re: CJK Numbering in gnome-doc-utils

[Abel Cheung]

On 12/10/05, Shaun McCance <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Clearly, there are quite a few variations on this system,
> and I have no problems supporting every variation that
> we need.  What I need to know, however, is exactly which
> ideographic systems our translators want to use.  I need
> exact definitions of those systems.

Hi Shaun,

I have attempted to summarize the digits and rules used by
simplified and traditional Chinese, in this page:

http://deaddog.org/~maddog/Chinese_Numeral_System.html

Hopefully it is a rigid enough set of rules without much
ambiguity, though my current health doesn't allow me to do
any rigorous testing. I'm being food-poisoned these few days,
though not so serious, it is enough to keep me from being
responsive for 1 day or 2. If there really is some problem,
you can ask Funda for more detail.

Funda, is the ruleset ok? I've had some doubts with 4th rule,
so if you have time, perhaps you can help explaining to
others... thanks a lot.

Abel

>
> I've put together a simple command line utility called
> test-numbers.  I'll be putting it into gnome-doc-utils
> CVS under the i18n directory.  Translators (and anybody
> else) can use it to verify my implementations.  Please,
> everybody send me details of the numbering systems you
> need, and then double-check my results with the script.
>
> --
> Shaun
>
>
>
>
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Re: Re-post, need help really. Where in CVS is the Gnome User Manual

[Abel Cheung]

On 12/6/05, Alexander Shopov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I checked out the following modules from gnome CVS:
> gnome-user-docs: it seems to contain GNOME users' guide 2.6 byt I am not
> so sure about the newer versions.

It was Sun Microsystems people who work solely on GNOME user guide
until 2.6; after that the whole project basically come to a halt
since Sun people say they can't dedicate anymore resource on that,
and nobody picked up.

Abel

>
> gnomeweb-wml: it is not obvious how to build the exact web and pdf
> versions on the Gnome site.
>
> Best regards:
> al_shopov
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Re: "Automatic" UI translations showing word translations along with original

[Abel Cheung]

On 8/17/05, Simos Xenitellis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> Suppose the resources to translate to a specific language are not there
> but there is a dictionary available.
> It's possible to autotranslate the user-interface words so that the text
> appears as
> 
> Before: Press here
> After: Press(Pulse) here(aqui)
> 
> Would that be useful?

One possible application of such approach is teaching novice translators
visually how to translate, and how translations are shown on UI. There
are problems Danilo already noted, as well as UI problem (layout may
change or break because of more lengthy translations, but that's UI's
problem); but this approach is indeed interesting.

Abel



> 
> Well, Tim Foster (http://blogs.sun.com/roller/page/timf/20050816) tried
> it out, so have a look at the screenshot
> he created and post your comments!
> Try to think if there would be any application of this functionality.
> 
> Simos
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Re: Error after commit?

[Abel Cheung]

On 8/10/05, Ross Golder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > *Cannot open file /tmp/#cvs-po.lastdir.595.  <-- *What's all this about? :\
> 
> I'm aware of this. The precommit for the cvs-po-commits-list script (in
> CVSROOT/commitinfo) is creating this temp file based on the parent PID,
> and the corresponding script in postcommit is using it's PID to pick up
> the data prepared during the precommit.
> 
> However, for some reason the parent PIDs aren't matching (especially now
> that the precommit for the cvs-po-commits-list hook is spawned from the
> precommit script for the po validation hook). IMHO, a better way needs
> to be found to let the postcommit hook uniquely identify the data
> gathered by the precommit hook. I expect there are shedloads of leftover
> #cvs-po.lastdir.n files in /tmp.

In this case, how about preparing a tempfile (with mktemp or whatever)
inside check-po-commit.sh, then supply this filename to
po-commits-prep.pl? Though if one said this isn't clean at all, I'd agree...

Abel


> 
> Suggestions welcome.
> 
> --
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> 
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Re: (re)enable CVS commit-time check for validity of po files?

[Abel Cheung]

On 8/5/05, Danilo Šegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> We definitely don't want to insist on all committed PO files to have
> valid accelerators, IMHO.  (it may sometime be impossible to make
> accelerators for everything without conflicts)

Not to mention that many messages contain underscore, yet
they are not accelerators (translator_credits, debug messages, etc).
Enabling accelerator check for these messages would be pointless.

Abel

> 
> So perhaps introducing it back without "--check-accelerators='_'" is
> the way to go?
> 
> Cheers,
> Danilo
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Re: Re[2]: (re)enable CVS commit-time check for validity of po files?

[Abel Cheung]

On 8/5/05, Funda Wang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Danilo> So perhaps introducing it back without "--check-accelerators='_'" is
> Danilo> the way to go?
> This option should be language dependent. For most of latin languages,
> we could disable it, but for other languages such as Chinese, Arabic,
> enabling this option would be better.

Can you elaborate more? I failed to see the reason...

Abel

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Re: (re)enable CVS commit-time check for validity of po files?

[Abel Cheung]

On 8/4/05, Ross Golder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Any reason the commit-time check is not performed anymore?  I see
> > the necessary bits available in CVSROOT, but apparently they are
> > being used.
> 
> Anyone know why this is disabled? Does anyone object to (or even
> endorse) this commit-time check being re-enabled?

It was rumored that the check is disabled because the old GNOME CVS
machine can't handle the load, and gettext installed in that machine is
an ancient one. Since it is already migrated to a new shiny machine,
there is little reason not to re-enable it.

Abel


> 
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> 
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Re: response join translation team

[Abel Cheung]

On 7/30/05, lisa zhu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> My name is Lisha Zhu. I am very interested join your translation team. I am
> a Chinese native speaker translator. I translate general, economic and
> technical documents from English to Simplified Chinese and Traditional
> Chinese.

Thanks for your support of open source software translation! As Funda
said, simplified (zh_CN) and traditional (zh_TW) chinese are under
separate effort. For simp. Chinese you can contact Funda Wang; while
for traditional Chinese I'll send private mail to you for discussion.

Abel

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Re: Gnome-power-manager added missing translation

[Abel Cheung]

On 7/14/05, Francisco Javier F. Serrador <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hola
> 
> I have added pa and zh_CH to LINGUAS. They were in the po directory put
> autogen did not know anything about that.

Hm, looks like you have already fixed that.

Abel

> 
> Bye!
> 
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Re: rosetta

[Abel Cheung]

On 7/3/05, Clytie Siddall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > anything you translate for rosseta will have no effect to GTP.
> > Sadly it only affects ubuntu distribution unless you take the
> > responsibility to bring it back to GTP.
> 
> I don't know whether they've improved the currency, but I put a lot
> of work into translating the huge Gaim file on Rosetta, only to find
> the current file, 75% translated, on Pootle. Boy, was I peeved!

There is another problem too: are software maintainers incorporating
your translation? This is less likely a problem for GNOME/KDE, since all
po files / documents are committed into CVS/SVN, and they will be used
IF maintainers upload new tarball for releases. But for other translation
projects (including TP), that's a problem. Translations may end up
sitting there, never incorporated into tarball if software maintainers
don't care.

Abel

> 
> Currency is a big issue: if you're translating anything away from the
> main Gnome (KDE, Debian etc.) project, you want to make sure you have
> the current file, or you can waste a lot of time translating
> something that won't be used. :(
> 
> With Pootle, you can upload the current files you've taken from your
> l10n page, and they're working towards CVS/SVN dynamic checkout and
> commits.
> 
> from Clytie (vi-VN, Vietnamese free-software translation team / nhóm
> Việt hóa phần mềm tự do)
> 
> Clytie Siddall--Renmark, in the Riverland of South Australia
> 
> Ở thành phố Renmark, tại miền sông của Nam Úc
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Re: Is there a gnome-developers-i18n-howto article?

[Abel Cheung]

On 6/21/05, Danilo Šegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > You can probably modify the wiki yourself. As for the tutorial,
> > Christian probably know how to change it ;-)
> 
> Yeah, I encourage you Funda to update the Wiki yourself.  For
> instance, add the "Python specifics" section to
> 
>   http://live.gnome.org/GnomeI18nDeveloperTips
> 
> and describe the problem there (and solution if you know it).  Feel
> free to be as verbose or as short as you want, we'll improve on it as
> we go.

Besides, gettext info page points python-format document to
this URL:
http://www.python.org/doc/2.2.1/lib/typesseq-strings.html

So that you may want to add a link telling developers and
translators alike to have a read at python specific stuff.

Abel


> 
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Re: POTs of Evolution* doesn't build for gnome 2.12?

[Abel Cheung]

On 5/28/05, Funda Wang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> It seems that the POTs of evolution* has not been built for three months.
> The reason might be evolution has bumped its version without anouncements.

Only 3 months? zh_TW one has not been updated since last commit of
po file, that's last September...

> 
> Should we update our translation-status.xml?

Seems it has already been updated.

Abel

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Re: POTs of Evolution* doesn't build for gnome 2.12?

[Abel Cheung]

On 5/28/05, Rhys Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Is this related maybe to the problem I reported earlier?
> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-i18n/2005-May/msg00119.html
> 
> (Thanks to all who responded in that thread. The suggested fix
> didn't work, but I added a report to bugzilla, id #305623.)

Definitely. The fix didn't work because not only 1 file name is broken,
but 2 instead. I'm losing patience on this one, so I go ahead and fixed
more serious problems. It is very interesting to think why it is
buildable without POTFILES.* fixes.

About bug report, perhaps you want to modify title a little bit or even
close it, because more serious issues should be resolved.

OTOH, there are lots of missing files not added to POTFILES.in, but I
don't have time to check carefully which is important
and which is not, so not handling them yet. Everybody, don't dump
fuzzy strings so soon, just in case somebody is willing to look
deeper.

Abel

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> Rhys
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Re: web-based translation (Pootle) (Abel)

[Abel Cheung]

On 5/23/05, Clytie Siddall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Abel, I don't think anyone who is trying out Pootle wants to enforce
> it as the only translation method.

Sorry for not making myself clear. What I mean is, if any team
decided to use it as the sole mean of translation, that's pretty
bad. If proper management is done so that both web translation
and manual translation can be readily merged or used, then
this diversion is good for everybody.

Abel

> 
> The exciting thing about Pootle, and web-based translation in
> general, is that it gives us another translation option, another way
> to do things.
> 
> It's more choices, not less. :)
> 
> That's one reason I support it so strongly: I'm always in favour of
> having more choices. :)
> 
> The option to work on a translation in collaboration with other
> people in your team, without having to send files back and forth and
> make diffs, can be very handy. Pootle is almost like having a
> Rendezvous network across the Net: you can work together, and see
> what the other people are doing. That is exciting.
> 
> I agree wholeheartedly with you that individual teams, and individual
> translators, must be able to make their own choices. Let's just give
> them as many useful choices as we can. :)
> 
> from Clytie (vi-VN, team/nhóm Gnome-vi)
> 
> Clytie Siddall--Renmark, in the Riverland of South Australia
> 
> Ở thành phố Renmark, tại miền sông của Nam Úc
> 
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Re: [translate-pootle] Re: Rosetta web based translation tool

[Abel Cheung]

On 5/20/05, Petros V <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> We (the Hellenic GNOME Team) are trying to setup pootle.gnome.gr but
> we have a few problems. In my opinion it will be better if every
> country has its own pootle.gnome.XX so the work will remain
> de-centralized.

2 most serious potential problem are:

1. centralized place for translation means single point of failure
2. not everybody want to work this way

So it might be better for every team to decide themselves.

Abel

> 
> 
> 
> Petros Velonis
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Re: Marking numbers for translation.

[Abel Cheung]

On 5/21/05, Richard Hoelscher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Mailing here just to make sure I'm not breaking any i18n taboos... I
> recently patched the gnome-games Tetravex component to use localized
> numbers rather than plain old "0" through "9" on the puzzle pieces. This
> is merely for looks, as can be seen here in this Japanese sample:
> 
> http://rahga.com/svg/tetravex_ja.png

This seems fine. Chinese almost uses the same characters, and it
looks ok. Even in case localized numbers is not appropriate for
some language, arabic numbers can always be used.

Abel

> 
> I've provided a comment about it, but still, marking single-character
> strings for translation seems worth mentioning here. Please let me know if
> anyone of you see problems with it.
> 
> -Richard Hoelscher
> http://rahga.com/svg/
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