Re: [GNC] List Replies

2020-11-18 Thread Adrien Monteleone 
Yes, I'm well aware of what the MacOS client does as I use it daily. I 
don't have an *iOS* device though.


And the question wasn't about the buttons' current behaviors, but rather 
how easy it is to send to *any* e-mail address in any part of the 
header, or the body of the message. (and not just the list address or 
reply-to header)


Regards,
Adrien

On 11/18/20 12:17 PM, w...@theprescotts.com wrote:

Adrien,

For your reference, in the MacOS Mail.app:

clicking Reply: puts the sender in the To: field
clicking Reply All: puts gnucash-u...@lists.gnucash.org 
 in the To: field, and the sender in the 
cc: field.

Usually what I do is hit 'Reply All', delete the sender from the To: field and 
drag gnucash from cc: to To:.


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Re: [GNC] Significance of missing Bank routing fraction # on new check order

2020-11-18 Thread Tommy Trussell 
On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 11:48 AM Bart Schroeder 
wrote:

> Beginning to use computer checks for the first time.  Received first order
> from vendor without Bank routing fraction #.  Worried that checks printed
> without such info will be rejected.
>
> How critical is this info on my checks?  Will they, most likely, get
> processed any way?
>
> Is there a workaround I can use to print that info (using “Custom
> format”?) each time I originate a check?
>

I recommend you take the check stock to your bank and ask them before
trying to use it.

I assume you are in the US, where I believe the fractional routing number
is no longer required or used, so new checks have not had it for a number
of years. Assuming the full routing number (sometimes called RTN or ABA) is
correct and appears in the correct position on the lower edge of the check,
I suspect your bank will accept it. But they will tell you what they will
accept.

If your bank turns out to be especially picky about the positioning of the
ABA / RTN they will have a template you can share with the printer to get
them reprinted properly.

Once you're ready to actually print checks, I recommend test printing onto
plain paper and holding that printed page together with your check stock
and looking through it with a strong light to see if you got the print
format positioned as expected. You may also have to do some test prints to
figure out the "tumble" on your printer so you know for certain how to
position the blank check stock so its orientation is correct.

It has been at least ten years since I printed any checks onto check stock
so I can't personally speak to any recent issues.


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Re: [GNC] List Replies

2020-11-18 Thread w...@theprescotts.com 
Sorry, I had that reversed
clicking Reply All: puts gnucash-u...@lists.gnucash.org 
 in the cc: field, and the sender in the 
To: field.

On 2020 Nov 18, at 11-18 12:17:03, w...@theprescotts.com wrote:

Adrien,

For your reference, in the MacOS Mail.app:

clicking Reply: puts the sender in the To: field
clicking Reply All: puts gnucash-u...@lists.gnucash.org 
 in the To: field, and the sender in the 
cc: field.

Usually what I do is hit 'Reply All', delete the sender from the To: field and 
drag gnucash from cc: to To:.

Regards,
Will

On 2020 Nov 18, at 11-18 11:30:15, Adrien Monteleone 
mailto:adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net>> wrote:

I'll add Mail.app on MacOS to the list. The 'From:' header has a down arrow to 
the right of the address. (visible on hover) Clicking it brings up a context 
menu with 'New Mail' as an option. (There is also a 'Copy Address' option if 
one prefers) As well, any address in the body of a message has the same options.

Not certain about Mail.app on iOS, but I'd suspect there is a similar feature.


Regards,
Adrien

On 11/18/20 3:38 AM, Geert Janssens wrote:
> You make a very good point here. I agree the list configuration should 
> reflect our default
> behaviour. And given all mail clients I have seen make it easy to send a mail 
> or reply to any
> visible header e-mail address (To, CC, From,...), the uncommon case of a 
> private request is still
> readily available, but it does take explicit action. Making the desired 
> behaviour default is
> actually good user experience.
> For the record these are the mail clients I have looked at:
> - Kmail: provides direct reply to  or new message to any visible address.
> - Thunderbird: provides new message to any visible address
> - GMail: provides new message to any visible address, though it does take an 
> extra click
> - K9-Mail (mobile): provides direct sending new mail to "from" address rather 
> than reply-to
> address. Other visible addresses can't be targeted directly.
> I'm extrapolating from this that any decent mail client has effectively a way 
> to directly send a
> message to the address that appears in the from field instead of using the 
> hidden reply-to.
> So to me the original argument that it would be much harder to send a private 
> reply doesn't
> hold.
> In fact as one on the other side of regularly receiving unwarranted private 
> replies on my list
> posts, I actually prefer to make that process a bit harder (while still not 
> difficult at all).

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Re: [GNC] List Replies

2020-11-18 Thread w...@theprescotts.com 
Adrien,

For your reference, in the MacOS Mail.app:

clicking Reply: puts the sender in the To: field
clicking Reply All: puts gnucash-u...@lists.gnucash.org 
 in the To: field, and the sender in the 
cc: field.

Usually what I do is hit 'Reply All', delete the sender from the To: field and 
drag gnucash from cc: to To:.

Regards,
Will

On 2020 Nov 18, at 11-18 11:30:15, Adrien Monteleone 
 wrote:

I'll add Mail.app on MacOS to the list. The 'From:' header has a down arrow to 
the right of the address. (visible on hover) Clicking it brings up a context 
menu with 'New Mail' as an option. (There is also a 'Copy Address' option if 
one prefers) As well, any address in the body of a message has the same options.

Not certain about Mail.app on iOS, but I'd suspect there is a similar feature.


Regards,
Adrien

On 11/18/20 3:38 AM, Geert Janssens wrote:
> You make a very good point here. I agree the list configuration should 
> reflect our default
> behaviour. And given all mail clients I have seen make it easy to send a mail 
> or reply to any
> visible header e-mail address (To, CC, From,...), the uncommon case of a 
> private request is still
> readily available, but it does take explicit action. Making the desired 
> behaviour default is
> actually good user experience.
> For the record these are the mail clients I have looked at:
> - Kmail: provides direct reply to  or new message to any visible address.
> - Thunderbird: provides new message to any visible address
> - GMail: provides new message to any visible address, though it does take an 
> extra click
> - K9-Mail (mobile): provides direct sending new mail to "from" address rather 
> than reply-to
> address. Other visible addresses can't be targeted directly.
> I'm extrapolating from this that any decent mail client has effectively a way 
> to directly send a
> message to the address that appears in the from field instead of using the 
> hidden reply-to.
> So to me the original argument that it would be much harder to send a private 
> reply doesn't
> hold.
> In fact as one on the other side of regularly receiving unwarranted private 
> replies on my list
> posts, I actually prefer to make that process a bit harder (while still not 
> difficult at all).

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Re: [GNC] List Replies

2020-11-18 Thread Adrien Monteleone 
I'll add Mail.app on MacOS to the list. The 'From:' header has a down 
arrow to the right of the address. (visible on hover) Clicking it brings 
up a context menu with 'New Mail' as an option. (There is also a 'Copy 
Address' option if one prefers) As well, any address in the body of a 
message has the same options.


Not certain about Mail.app on iOS, but I'd suspect there is a similar 
feature.



Regards,
Adrien

On 11/18/20 3:38 AM, Geert Janssens wrote:

You make a very good point here. I agree the list configuration should reflect 
our default
behaviour. And given all mail clients I have seen make it easy to send a mail 
or reply to any
visible header e-mail address (To, CC, From,...), the uncommon case of a 
private request is still
readily available, but it does take explicit action. Making the desired 
behaviour default is
actually good user experience.

For the record these are the mail clients I have looked at:
- Kmail: provides direct reply to  or new message to any visible address.
- Thunderbird: provides new message to any visible address
- GMail: provides new message to any visible address, though it does take an 
extra click
- K9-Mail (mobile): provides direct sending new mail to "from" address rather 
than reply-to
address. Other visible addresses can't be targeted directly.

I'm extrapolating from this that any decent mail client has effectively a way 
to directly send a
message to the address that appears in the from field instead of using the 
hidden reply-to.


So to me the original argument that it would be much harder to send a private 
reply doesn't
hold.

In fact as one on the other side of regularly receiving unwarranted private 
replies on my list
posts, I actually prefer to make that process a bit harder (while still not 
difficult at all).


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Re: [GNC] List Replies

2020-11-18 Thread Stephen M. Butler 

On 11/18/20 1:38 AM, Geert Janssens wrote:

Op dinsdag 17 november 2020 19:26:58 CET schreef Adrien Monteleone:

Yeah, perhaps I'm not understanding something, but if the list server is
configured with the list address in the reply-to header, but *does not*
hide the individual's personal address (as described by Greg) how hard
is it for someone to copy and paste that address in a new compose window
in the 'to' field? And to make it even easier, most mail apps have a
feature that if you select *any* e-mail address, you can get a context
menu to send a new message to that address!

So the default behavior would be reply-to-list, and if the *OFF* chance
you *might* want to privately reply, you can still do so. (note, private
replies to this list are discouraged, so why make it the default?!)


You make a very good point here. I agree the list configuration should reflect 
our default
behaviour. And given all mail clients I have seen make it easy to send a mail 
or reply to any
visible header e-mail address (To, CC, From,...), the uncommon case of a 
private request is still
readily available, but it does take explicit action. Making the desired 
behaviour default is
actually good user experience.

For the record these are the mail clients I have looked at:
- Kmail: provides direct reply to  or new message to any visible address.
- Thunderbird: provides new message to any visible address
- GMail: provides new message to any visible address, though it does take an 
extra click
- K9-Mail (mobile): provides direct sending new mail to "from" address rather 
than reply-to
address. Other visible addresses can't be targeted directly.

I'm extrapolating from this that any decent mail client has effectively a way 
to directly send a
message to the address that appears in the from field instead of using the 
hidden reply-to.


So to me the original argument that it would be much harder to send a private 
reply doesn't
hold.

In fact as one on the other side of regularly receiving unwarranted private 
replies on my list
posts, I actually prefer to make that process a bit harder (while still not 
difficult at all).

Regards,

Geert
_


I use Thunderbird as a mail client.  For messages from this list it 
offers me two buttons.  Reply and ReplyList.  Reply will send the 
message to the originator (From).  ReplyList will send it to the ReplyTo 
entry.


The ReplyList does have a drop down with three options (Reply, 
ReplyList, ReplyAll).


Sometimes I've clicked on the Reply instead of ReplyList. Occasionally I 
catch that before hitting the Send button.


--Steve

PS.  "If you idiot-proof the software, only idiots will be able to use it"

--
Stephen M Butler, PMP, PSM
stephen.m.butle...@gmail.com
kg...@arrl.net
253-350-0166
---
GnuPG Fingerprint:  8A25 9726 D439 758D D846 E5D4 282A 5477 0385 81D8

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Re: [GNC] List Replies

2020-11-18 Thread Chris Green 
On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 10:50:07AM +0100, Geert Janssens wrote:
> Op dinsdag 17 november 2020 20:45:12 CET schreef Frank H. Ellenberger:
> > Am 17.11.20 um 19:26 schrieb Adrien Monteleone:
> > > (note, private replies to this list are discouraged, so why make it the
> > > default?!)
> > 
> > and we will end with public visible logs of online banking sessions. :-(
> > 
> 
> Keep in mind that sending private information is the exception, so it's 
> something that has to 
> be done much less frequently.
> I would hope someone who cares about the privacy of that information would be 
> careful 
> enough when sending it. Again it's not rocket science. It's about doing it 
> differently in the 
> corner case.
> 
Remember that E-Mail most definitely *isn't* private or secure.

The old idea that E-Mail should be treated like a postcard still
applies in the main.  E-Mail is, by default, transported across the
internet unencrypted and may get stored, in clear, on several servers
during its journey.

You may have an encrypted connection when you collect your E-Mail from
your ISP (or gmail, or wherever) but that's just one hop of many and
there is absolutely no guarantee that any of the other hops are also
encrypted.

Treat it like a postcard, unless you actually encrypt the message
itself.

-- 
Chris Green
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Re: [GNC] List Replies

2020-11-18 Thread Geert Janssens 
Op dinsdag 17 november 2020 20:45:12 CET schreef Frank H. Ellenberger:
> Am 17.11.20 um 19:26 schrieb Adrien Monteleone:
> > (note, private replies to this list are discouraged, so why make it the
> > default?!)
> 
> and we will end with public visible logs of online banking sessions. :-(
> 

Keep in mind that sending private information is the exception, so it's 
something that has to 
be done much less frequently.
I would hope someone who cares about the privacy of that information would be 
careful 
enough when sending it. Again it's not rocket science. It's about doing it 
differently in the 
corner case.

And for what it's worth, we have had users in the past send private information 
to the list also, 
requesting us to remove it. So even our current default doesn't protect us from 
that.

Yet another consideration if you really want to help a user send you something 
in private, put 
your e-mail address in the message body, explicitly stating that's the address 
you would like 
to receive that private data on. All mail clients I use allow you to click 
directly on the e-mail 
address to send a message to.

There are plenty of options, it just takes the willingness to see things 
differently.

Regards,

Geert
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Re: [GNC] List Replies

2020-11-18 Thread Geert Janssens 
Op dinsdag 17 november 2020 19:59:01 CET schreef Robert Heller:
> At Tue, 17 Nov 2020 12:26:58 -0600 adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net wrote:
> > Yeah, perhaps I'm not understanding something, but if the list server is
> > configured with the list address in the reply-to header, but *does not*
> > hide the individual's personal address (as described by Greg) how hard
> > is it for someone to copy and paste that address in a new compose window
> > in the 'to' field? And to make it even easier, most mail apps have a
> > feature that if you select *any* e-mail address, you can get a context
> > menu to send a new message to that address!
> 
> The whole copy and paste from the comment part of the from header is
> something of a "pain in the ass" for many people.  It is *far easier* to
> click the "Reply[ to Sender]" vs. "Reply to All" buttons virtually all
> E-Mail clients provide.  Then the E-Mail client sets up the To: and Cc:
> headers properly and without error -- the copy and paste is prone to
> [human] errors.

None of the e-mail clients I have tested required me to copy anything. They all 
allowed me in 
some way to click on the address in the from field and let me compose a message 
to that 
address directly, bypassing the hidden reply-to header.

Regards,

Geert
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Re: [GNC] List Replies

2020-11-18 Thread Geert Janssens 
Op dinsdag 17 november 2020 19:26:58 CET schreef Adrien Monteleone:
> Yeah, perhaps I'm not understanding something, but if the list server is
> configured with the list address in the reply-to header, but *does not*
> hide the individual's personal address (as described by Greg) how hard
> is it for someone to copy and paste that address in a new compose window
> in the 'to' field? And to make it even easier, most mail apps have a
> feature that if you select *any* e-mail address, you can get a context
> menu to send a new message to that address!
> 
> So the default behavior would be reply-to-list, and if the *OFF* chance
> you *might* want to privately reply, you can still do so. (note, private
> replies to this list are discouraged, so why make it the default?!)
> 
You make a very good point here. I agree the list configuration should reflect 
our default 
behaviour. And given all mail clients I have seen make it easy to send a mail 
or reply to any 
visible header e-mail address (To, CC, From,...), the uncommon case of a 
private request is still 
readily available, but it does take explicit action. Making the desired 
behaviour default is 
actually good user experience.

For the record these are the mail clients I have looked at:
- Kmail: provides direct reply to  or new message to any visible address.
- Thunderbird: provides new message to any visible address
- GMail: provides new message to any visible address, though it does take an 
extra click
- K9-Mail (mobile): provides direct sending new mail to "from" address rather 
than reply-to 
address. Other visible addresses can't be targeted directly.

I'm extrapolating from this that any decent mail client has effectively a way 
to directly send a 
message to the address that appears in the from field instead of using the 
hidden reply-to.


So to me the original argument that it would be much harder to send a private 
reply doesn't 
hold.

In fact as one on the other side of regularly receiving unwarranted private 
replies on my list 
posts, I actually prefer to make that process a bit harder (while still not 
difficult at all).

Regards,

Geert
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