Re: STS Template Engine
On 2. Sep 2005, at 17:01 Uhr, Sunrise Ltd wrote: Well, my first thought was: why another templating engine? We already have WO (either in SOPE or in gstep-web). It would seem that your idea of "templating engine" is a little narrow. How to you come to this conclusion? WO is great for webservers and templating of webcontent. Indeed. But there are far more templating requirements than webcontent. Obviously. As mentioned, the STS Template Engine was specifically designed to generate configuration files for faceless server apps, such as in our case Asterisk. And you can't do this with WO? Interesting, we can and its rather cool for this kind of things. It would seem that your idea of "WO" is a little narrow. It could be used for webcontent templating, but it is specifically designed for system configuration tasks. And for this purpose it beats WO hands down. If you say so. You might want to add actual reasons on why your NIH templating is better than WO for the task instead of accusing someone of having a "narrow idea". Your mail has no interesting content on that actual point. regards, Helge PS: your email address doesn't work. -- http://docs.opengroupware.org/Members/helge/ OpenGroupware.org ___ Gnustep-dev mailing list Gnustep-dev@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnustep-dev
Re: STS Template Engine
- Original Message - From: "Helge Hess" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Developer GNUstep" Subject: Re: STS Template Engine Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 01:23:59 +0200 > > On 21. Jul 2005, at 16:53 Uhr, Markus Hitter wrote: > > Am 21.07.2005 um 16:03 schrieb Sunrise Ltd: > >> we've just released the STS TemplateEngine, a library for > >> expanding templates using tagged placeholders and it features > >> its own macro lanuguage for conditional template > >> expansion. > > This is was I thought first: > > Well, my first thought was: why another templating engine? We > already have WO (either in SOPE or in gstep-web). It would seem that your idea of "templating engine" is a little narrow. WO is great for webservers and templating of webcontent. But there are far more templating requirements than webcontent. As mentioned, the STS Template Engine was specifically designed to generate configuration files for faceless server apps, such as in our case Asterisk. It could be used for webcontent templating, but it is specifically designed for system configuration tasks. And for this purpose it beats WO hands down. rgds Sunrise -- ___ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm ___ Gnustep-dev mailing list Gnustep-dev@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnustep-dev
Re: STS Template Engine
On 25. Jul 2005, at 23:10 Uhr, Lars Sonchocky-Helldorf wrote: I wasn't aware that WO was such a lithe and lissom animal once. it has put on a lot weight since then (Java disease?). This: http:// developer.apple.com/documentation/WebObjects/Reference/API/ index.html is definitely a truck. (and yeah, you omitted EOF, could you install WO without it those days?) Of course I omitted EOF since its not required for templating (nor for any other basic WO operation). AFAIK the only class which refers EOF is WODisplayGroup and this can easily be omitted. The Java reference contains all the other WO related frameworks like D2W etc, those however are not part of the WebObjects _framework_ (not the whole product). (addition it contains additional classes necessary due to the Java language, but actually not that much). The full WO product consists of a lot of different frameworks (aka packages in Java WO), but those are rather cleanly designed and stack up pretty nicely. On 26. Jul 2005, at 08:37 Uhr, Stefan Urbanek wrote: What about WO dependencies? ... The WO framework classes required here have no dependencies but Foundation (since KVC is now in Foundation). "stripping down ..." does not seem like out-of-the-box solution... Hu? Just build a library which contains only the classes you require. Of course you may need one or the other additional class for WO framework purposes (like WOContext), but this probably makes more sense than rewriting the templating from scratch! Nothing against WO - each tool has its purpose... WO is a nice framework which can be applied to many different purposes, not a monolithic "tool". Its actually quite beautiful for templating all kinds of files. Presenting WO as a bloated tool is simply incorrect. Now I wouldn't recommend it for stuff like [str replaceString:... withString:...] but as soon as you start with conditions, repetitions and stuff, you are very likely reinventing the wheel. And indeed the existing wheel is kick-ass ;-) Greets, Helge -- http://docs.opengroupware.org/Members/helge/ OpenGroupware.org ___ Gnustep-dev mailing list Gnustep-dev@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnustep-dev
Re: STS Template Engine
Citát Helge Hess <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > On 25. Jul 2005, at 02:35 Uhr, Lars Sonchocky-Helldorf wrote: > >> Well, my first thought was: why another templating engine? We > >> already have WO (either in SOPE or in gstep-web). > > maybe because WO would be overkill for some simple tasks (or do you > > use a semitrailer truck to carry a crate of beer to your home)? > > Hear hear! ;-) > > The WO framework just has ~20 public classes and is hardely a truck, > its rather a beautifully modular bike: >http://developer.apple.com/documentation/LegacyTechnologies/ > WebObjects/WebObjects_4.5/System/Library/Frameworks/ > WebObjects.framework/ObjC_classic/WebObjectsTOC.html > What about WO dependencies? ... > Stripping down to the classes required for templating you may end up > with something like 5-10 classes for text rendering. > "stripping down ..." does not seem like out-of-the-box solution... Nothing against WO - each tool has its purpose... Regards, Stefan Urbanek -- http://stefan.agentfarms.net First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. - Mahatma Gandhi ___ Gnustep-dev mailing list Gnustep-dev@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnustep-dev
Re: STS Template Engine
Am Montag, 25.07.05 um 22:26 Uhr schrieb Helge Hess: On 25. Jul 2005, at 02:35 Uhr, Lars Sonchocky-Helldorf wrote: Well, my first thought was: why another templating engine? We already have WO (either in SOPE or in gstep-web). maybe because WO would be overkill for some simple tasks (or do you use a semitrailer truck to carry a crate of beer to your home)? Hear hear! ;-) The WO framework just has ~20 public classes and is hardely a truck, its rather a beautifully modular bike: http://developer.apple.com/documentation/LegacyTechnologies/ WebObjects/WebObjects_4.5/System/Library/Frameworks/ WebObjects.framework/ObjC_classic/WebObjectsTOC.html I wasn't aware that WO was such a lithe and lissom animal once. it has put on a lot weight since then (Java disease?). This: http://developer.apple.com/documentation/WebObjects/Reference/API/ index.html is definitely a truck. (and yeah, you omitted EOF, could you install WO without it those days?) Stripping down to the classes required for templating you may end up with something like 5-10 classes for text rendering. Greets, Helge regards, Lars -- http://docs.opengroupware.org/Members/helge/ OpenGroupware.org ___ Gnustep-dev mailing list Gnustep-dev@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnustep-dev ___ Gnustep-dev mailing list Gnustep-dev@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnustep-dev
Re: STS Template Engine
On 25. Jul 2005, at 02:35 Uhr, Lars Sonchocky-Helldorf wrote: Well, my first thought was: why another templating engine? We already have WO (either in SOPE or in gstep-web). maybe because WO would be overkill for some simple tasks (or do you use a semitrailer truck to carry a crate of beer to your home)? Hear hear! ;-) The WO framework just has ~20 public classes and is hardely a truck, its rather a beautifully modular bike: http://developer.apple.com/documentation/LegacyTechnologies/ WebObjects/WebObjects_4.5/System/Library/Frameworks/ WebObjects.framework/ObjC_classic/WebObjectsTOC.html Stripping down to the classes required for templating you may end up with something like 5-10 classes for text rendering. Greets, Helge -- http://docs.opengroupware.org/Members/helge/ OpenGroupware.org ___ Gnustep-dev mailing list Gnustep-dev@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnustep-dev
Re: STS Template Engine
Hi, On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 09:03:49 -0500 Sunrise Ltd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >| we've just released the STS TemplateEngine, a library for expanding >templates using tagged placeholders and it features its own macro lanuguage >for conditional template >| expansion. it's GPL licensed and available as Objective-C/Cocoa source code >along with detailed documentation at >http://www.sunrise-tel.com/STSTemplateEngine.html. >| >| we developed it to generate configuation files for Asterisk, the open >source telephony server, but it is designed to be universally applicable. it >could be used to generate >| configuration files of other server applications, or for wordprocessing and >email applications, or for HTML templating. Nice idea ! FYI, I'll release a GNUstep FastAGI library in few days (we are currently in final tests step). Manuel ___ Gnustep-dev mailing list Gnustep-dev@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnustep-dev
Re: STS Template Engine
Am Montag, 25.07.05 um 01:23 Uhr schrieb Helge Hess: On 21. Jul 2005, at 16:53 Uhr, Markus Hitter wrote: Am 21.07.2005 um 16:03 schrieb Sunrise Ltd: we've just released the STS TemplateEngine, a library for expanding templates using tagged placeholders and it features its own macro lanuguage for conditional template expansion. This is was I thought first: Well, my first thought was: why another templating engine? We already have WO (either in SOPE or in gstep-web). maybe because WO would be overkill for some simple tasks (or do you use a semitrailer truck to carry a crate of beer to your home)? Greets, Helge regards, Lars ___ Gnustep-dev mailing list Gnustep-dev@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnustep-dev
Re: STS Template Engine
On 21. Jul 2005, at 16:53 Uhr, Markus Hitter wrote: Am 21.07.2005 um 16:03 schrieb Sunrise Ltd: we've just released the STS TemplateEngine, a library for expanding templates using tagged placeholders and it features its own macro lanuguage for conditional template expansion. This is was I thought first: Well, my first thought was: why another templating engine? We already have WO (either in SOPE or in gstep-web). Greets, Helge -- http://docs.opengroupware.org/Members/helge/ OpenGroupware.org ___ Gnustep-dev mailing list Gnustep-dev@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnustep-dev
Re: STS Template Engine
Markus Hitter wrote: > "Since when are templates part of the Obj-C language and why would > one want to add yet another layer of configurability (= code > obscurity)?" > > However, when reading your description I've learned you're not > talking about templates on code ( like C++), Agreed, that kind of "templating" is a real kludge. C++ templating, or Generics as it is more accurately called in some other languages is a workaround to overcome some of the shortcomings of statically typed languages. Objective-C certainly doesn't need such a kludge because it's dynamically typed. > but about _string_ templates here. So, it's something comparable > to regex(3), NSScanner, et al. > > Wanted to point that out. Indeed, thanks. the methods provided are ... stringByExpandingTemplate:usingDictionary:errorsReturned: stringByExpandingTemplate:withStartTag:andEndTag:usingDictionary:errorsReturned: stringByExpandingTemplateAtPath:usingDictionary:encoding:errorsReturned: stringByExpandingTemplateAtPath:withStartTag:andEndTag:usingDictionary:encoding:errorsReturned: In a way, NSScanner does the opposite of what the STS Template Engine does. It creates a new data set from data found in a string. The template engine inserts data from an existing data set into a string. thanks for the thumbs up. regards Sunrise -- ___ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm ___ Gnustep-dev mailing list Gnustep-dev@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnustep-dev
Re: STS Template Engine
Am 21.07.2005 um 16:03 schrieb Sunrise Ltd: we've just released the STS TemplateEngine, a library for expanding templates using tagged placeholders and it features its own macro lanuguage for conditional template expansion. This is was I thought first: "Since when are templates part of the Obj-C language and why would one want to add yet another layer of configurability (= code obscurity)?" However, when reading your description I've learned you're not talking about templates on code ( like C++), but about _string_ templates here. So, it's something comparable to regex(3), NSScanner, et al. Wanted to point that out. Markus P.S.: Adding the Engine as a category with 4 methods only sounds in fact very good! - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dipl. Ing. Markus Hitter http://www.jump-ing.de/ ___ Gnustep-dev mailing list Gnustep-dev@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnustep-dev
STS Template Engine
Hi we've just released the STS TemplateEngine, a library for expanding templates using tagged placeholders and it features its own macro lanuguage for conditional template expansion. it's GPL licensed and available as Objective-C/Cocoa source code along with detailed documentation at http://www.sunrise-tel.com/STSTemplateEngine.html. we developed it to generate configuation files for Asterisk, the open source telephony server, but it is designed to be universally applicable. it could be used to generate configuration files of other server applications, or for wordprocessing and email applications, or for HTML templating. a few of the methods called by the engine internally are Cocoa specific. for someone experienced with GNUstep it shouldn't be difficult to work around those calls and make it usable with GNUstep, too. then again, it may be just a matter of time until the Cocoa methods will have been backported to GNUstep. in any event, the library should be a great addition to GNUstep -- we have had a very positive response from the Cocoa community already. regards Sunrise -- ___ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm ___ Gnustep-dev mailing list Gnustep-dev@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnustep-dev
