date:20050708

--- Peter D'Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Gabe Menezes said:
 The big powers, such as Germany and France as well
 as many others stayed out. Their citizens are 
 sleeping happy while we have to live with fear.
 
 Gabe,
 Why do you consider Germany and France to be big
 powers?
 Peter
 
Mario observes:
Hey, don't get picky, Peter.  Don't forget, Germany
and France used to be big powers - 30 years ago. 
Now they can only wring their hands, put their heads
in the sand, and hope for the best.

The governments the US can generally count on in a
pinch are 1) Aussies, 2) Brits, 3) Italy, 4) Denmark
(of all places) and 5) Poland

[Goanet]RE: Caste

2005-07-08 Thread Joaquim DeSouza

I would like to send you the following article from the U.S Library of
Congress
Quote

Although many other nations are characterized by social inequality, perhaps
nowhere else in the world has inequality been so elaborately constructed as
in the Indian institution of caste. Caste has long existed in India, but in
the modern period it has been severely criticized by both Indian and foreign
observers. Although some educated Indians tell non-Indians that caste has
been abolished or that no one pays attention to caste anymore, such
statements do not reflect reality.

Caste has undergone significant change since independence, but it still
involves hundreds of millions of people. In its preamble, India's
constitution forbids negative public discrimination on the basis of caste.
However, caste ranking and caste-based interaction have occurred for
centuries and will continue to do so well into the foreseeable future, more
in the countryside than in urban settings and more in the realms of kinship
and marriage than in less personal interactions.

Castes are ranked, named, endogamous (in-marrying) groups, membership in
which is achieved by birth. There are thousands of castes and subcastes in
India, and these large kinship-based groups are fundamental to South Asian
social structure. Each caste is part of a locally based system of
interde-pendence with other groups, involving occupational specialization,
and is linked in complex ways with networks that stretch across regions and
throughout the nation.

The word caste derives from the Portuguese casta , meaning breed, race, or
kind. Among the Indian terms that are sometimes translated as caste are
varna (see Glossary), jati (see Glossary), jat , biradri , and samaj . All
of these terms refer to ranked groups of various sizes and breadth. Varna ,
or color, actually refers to large divisions that include various castes;
the other terms include castes and subdivisions of castes sometimes called
subcastes.

Many castes are traditionally associated with an occupation, such as
high-ranking Brahmans; middle-ranking farmer and artisan groups, such as
potters, barbers, and carpenters; and very low-ranking Untouchable
leatherworkers, butchers, launderers, and latrine cleaners. There is some
correlation between ritual rank on the caste hierarchy and economic
prosperity. Members of higher-ranking castes tend, on the whole, to be more
prosperous than members of lower-ranking castes. Many lower-caste people
live in conditions of great poverty and social disadvantage.

According to the Rig Veda, sacred texts that date back to oral traditions of
more than 3,000 years ago, progenitors of the four ranked varna groups
sprang from various parts of the body of the primordial man, which Brahma
created from clay (see The Vedas and Polytheism, ch. 3). Each group had a
function in sustaining the life of society--the social body. Brahmans, or
priests, were created from the mouth. They were to provide for the
intellectual and spiritual needs of the community. Kshatriyas, warriors and
rulers, were derived from the arms. Their role was to rule and to protect
others. Vaishyas--landowners and merchants--sprang from the thighs, and were
entrusted with the care of commerce and agriculture. Shudras--artisans and
servants--came from the feet. Their task was to perform all manual labor.

Later conceptualized was a fifth category, Untouchable menials, relegated
to carrying out very menial and polluting work related to bodily decay and
dirt. Since 1935 Untouchables have been known as Scheduled Castes,
referring to their listing on government rosters, or schedules. They are
also often called by Mohandas Karamchand (Mahatma) Gandhi's term Harijans,
or Children of God. Although the term Untouchable appears in literature
produced by these low-ranking castes, in the 1990s, many politically
conscious members of these groups prefer to refer to themselves as Dalit
(see Glossary), a Hindi word meaning oppressed or downtrodden. According to
the 1991 census, there were 138 million Scheduled Caste members in India,
approximately 16 percent of the total population.

The first four varnas apparently existed in the ancient Aryan society of
northern India. Some historians say that these categories were originally
somewhat fluid functional groups, not castes. A greater degree of fixity
gradually developed, resulting in the complex ranking systems of medieval
India that essentially continue in the late twentieth century.

Although a varna is not a caste, when directly asked for their caste
affiliation, particularly when the questioner is a Westerner, many Indians
will reply with a varna name. Pressed further, they may respond with a much
more specific name of a caste, or jati , which falls within that varna . For
example, a Brahman may specify that he is a member of a named caste group,
such as a Jijotiya Brahman, or a Smartha Brahman, and so on. Within such
castes, people may further belong to smaller subcaste

Re: [Goanet]Caste adverts.

2005-07-08 Thread Viviana


Hello Edward - thanks for your comments.

By the way, do you know Sylvia Coelho e Fernandes or Angela Coelho e 
Fernandes from Chinchinim?  They're two of my sisters-in-law (out of 
5).  Also, did you know Dona Amina Dos Reis e Fernandes??  She passed 
away about 2 months ago, she was my great aunt, by marriage.


Viviana

Edward wrote:


Viviana - If no one has replied to you - it means that none on Goanet has
(Married outside their caste) or are aware of that or are ashmed to 
say on this general forum.

Re: [Goanet]Al Qaeda in Europe.

--- cornel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Vis a vis the post below, I believe your attitude
 towards Blair's unjustified attack on Iraq is 
 entirely realistic and reflects the majority 
 position in the UK. 

Mario replies:
If that were the majority position in the UK, then how
come Blair was re-elected?

Cornel writes:
 That the terrorist attack on London, yesterday, was 
 most likely was known to all. It merely confirms 
 that Blair has even more blood on his hands
 now than before. That man has, virtually 
 singlehandedly, put all of us, including visitors, 
 at risk in London.

Mario replies:
Wow!  Now Blair has blood on his hands!  This response
will truly warm the hearts of the folks in Edgeware
and Finsbury Park, Fallujah and Tikrit.  After all,
they can do the killing and a Brit says the blood is
on Tony Blair's hands!  Even Ken The Red
Livingstone, erstwhile appeaser of radical
Islamo-fascists, does not believe that any more.  He
said that they will fail.  You and Gabe are cowering
under your beds and railing at Tony Blair for
disrupting your lives.  The Islamo-fascists must be
duly impressed at such resolve.

Cornel continues:
 The backlash from the resilient people of London/UK 
 against Blair is inevitable and he should go now 
 and even be treated as a war criminal as a 
 significant number believe.

Mario replies:
This is like blaming the British government prior to
WW-II for the Battle of Britain, and the US government
for Pearl Harbor.  With Brits like you guys Blair does
not need enemies.

Cornel continues his rant:
 Put simply, Iraq did not threaten the UK, the 
 replacement of a leader of a nation was illegal as 
 there was no UN sanction for this or for a war.

Mario reminds Cornel:
Cornel, where have you been, man?  17 UN resolutions
ring a bell?  UN Resolution 1441 ring a bell?  Why
don't you go back and read what it said.  There was
nothing illegal about the regime change in Iraq, and,
what's more, you know it, or you should.

Cornel writes:
 Consequently, there is likely to be, unnecessarily, 
 lasting resentment against Britain for a long time 
 to come.  If anything, the war against Iraq is the 
 reason for so much jihadist insurgency and Blair 
 had been warned about this.  Instead, he believed 
 that he would be seen as a great liberator of Iraq 
 and has sought all kinds of bogus justifications
 for the war.
 
Mario replies:
Again, where have you been, man?  Don't you have any
idea what was going on in Iraq from 1991 through 2003?
 Besides, you can't debate with yourself, and make
straw men to debate with as you go along.

Cornel alleges:
 I am no pacificist and believe that some wars are
 justified e.g WW2 against Hitler, the need to 
 resolve the situation in Bosnia etc but not the 
 last one against Iraq. Sadam Hussein should have 
 been finished off, justifiably, by Bush senior in 
 the Kuwait war.  Further, the USA would have been 
 justified to attack Saudi Arabia, buddies or no 
 buddies, because it was the Saudis who were 
 principally responsible for 9/11.

Mario replies:
Cornel, have you ever thought of running for office
and testing these theories on the electorate?  So,
according to you, Saddam should have been finished
off in 1991, when the UN resolution prohibited it,
but not in 2003, when the UN resolution allowed it? 
What kind of convoluted logic is that?

Where did you get the idea that it was the Saudis
who were principally responsible for 9/11?  Oh, now I
know.  It was the fact that most of the perps on 9/11
were Saudi citizens.  I guess this means that we can
hold the Brits responsible for anything that you and
Gabe are up to, or for the Shoe Bomber.  Oh, right! 
You are holding the Brits responsible for
yesterday's cowardly attack on innocent civilians.

I agree that the US should have been more aggressive
with the Saudi government for several years now, but
your Brit papers seem to have not informed you that
they now are, and change is beginning, slowly but
surely.  The problem, you see, is that they are an
ally in the war against terrorism, and pump all this
oil that keeps the world economy rolling along.  So,
just like we did with Russia and China, you try and
make changes amicably.  This is called geopolitics,
Cornel, not Bulls in China Shops.  The idea is to
affect positive change, not just finish off people
who you think are useful to the greater good, while
NOT finishing off people, as and when you and Gabe
find it convenient, and may mess up this weekend's
party.

Cornel continues:
 I can also understand, to a limited point, their 
 attack against Afghanistan for not delivering Bin 
 Laden, a known criminal, for trial, but not their 
 hypocracy at the point of attack on Iraq and 
 killing huge numbers of innocent people, 
 notwithstanding that Sadam Hussein was indeed a 
 monster.
 
Mario replies bemused:
You can understand to a limited point?  What does
that mean?  Can you understand why the Taliban were
removed or don't you?

What is this Iraq you

Re: [Goanet]Caste adverts.

2005-07-08 Thread Edward


Mogall Goanetters,

I am also a silent Goanetter, but I would like to express my views on cast
adverts /Caste and Goanet in general.

1- on cast adverts - how many of the netters who are against the caste on
matrimonal ads are the parents of daughters
who are not able to find a suitable match for their daughter? Do you
know what these parents go through?
 If your lucky then what about the others who have been struggling for
years for a suitable match for their daughter
 either for reasons of caste/dowry and other factors. The attack on the
advertiser is uncalled cause we do not know if the girl
  has written it herself or its by her parents who want to see their
daughter well settled which is every Goan parents dream.
 What if the girl has tried every means n this was her one chance..Are
the advertisers honest?.
 A polite reply or help in this matter would have served the cause.
What about similar Adverts in the newspapers do we condemn them?

2- On Caste - I have not read much on the this topic casue i dont know what
is caste. Sr. Teotonio had put a bait on goanet
asking for those in caste to raise your hands and I believe a few fell
in the trap..thats where I said to my friend Cecil..
Arey when we were in school we used to say 'Sunea Castacho..Mazram
caste..etc...but that goes much beyond..
at times my mother used to say ' tum Ekmulea Castacho' meaning I am
selfish when I acted selfish...and as you know
dear friends it goes still further when our neighours fight for a
wall/Xim (boundry) in Goa...adding the Castacho with
every konkani badword...and ofcourse I always understood that Bamna
Castacho meant miser.
other than this i dont know of any Casteand this is the current
situation in Mumbai and Goa right now...
Now I say can any of the Younger Netterssay something on the
caste..or do we have a choice to
 listen to more stories from our elder netters and continue this to go
on and let our children know that what
 we left behind is all CASTE...

  Viviana - If no one has replied to you - it means that none on Goanet has
(Married outside their caste) or are
  aware of that or are ashmed to say on this general forum.

3- Goan Journalists - Often I have seen a remarks that Goan Journalists are
not doing enough to highlight the problems
   of Goa. I would like to state...that being miles away from Goa its easy
for us to sit on the PC and cry foul..
William De Curtorim' who was put in jail a few years back for political
songs...did any of the Goanetters support him
 or bail him out? Remember these journalists also have a family and
they have to look after them.

4. Science-Religion - There has been a long debate on Science and
Religion...esp Christians but I would like
to say one thingDid anyone of you visit the 'Tata Memorial Hospital
in Mumbai' (Cancer Hospital) ...There are thousands
of Cancer patients there (from all over India and Asia) and I have been
there and seen the suffering and I wonder whats this Science is
all about...The doctors there tell you..U have 6 months or year to
Live' and then you have the Religions - Christian/Hindu/Muslim..
who say..Dont worry you have God whom you can trust and live for many
years! This trust keeps them going but not the
 radiation which only gives them pain and leave their loved loves
distress. Not one of the doctors are there to inspire them.

5. Religious/Inspirational Mails: In my opinion its ok to have 1-2 of such
mails once a week with a proper subject If some one
doesnt want to read the same theres always a delete...as we do so to
many of the USA topics..For some it may bring some
   meaning in their daily life..specially in the gulf where there is not
much of religious life...If they are urban legends
just change the name of the place to some remote place in  Goa and also
add Goan names..then neither snopes
   or any other dotcom will not be able to confirm if the story is true..:)


Mog Assum di
Edwardo Verdes
Chinchinim/Jeddah/KSA..

PS: My real name is Edwardo Verdes...but none in my village know me by this
name as they all
  call me Eddie...even my relations...thats why I prefer to keep it
Eddie..However my sender's ID does mention
  the correct name.

From: Dr. Ambert Pimenta [EMAIL PROTECTED]



Well said Fred . A lot of Goanetters are silent on a lot of matters and on
this one particularly you wont hear too much besides the regular guys ..do
u know why ? I was a vociferous poster on this forum once ( from 1999) and
all that came back was personal attacks. Is this how we want this forum to
go ahead. With 9,000 members and about 50 regular posters do you think the
rest of us are silent cause we dont want to add our two cents to a
discussion  or because we dont want our dirty laundry to be washed in
public as it happens so very often on Goanet.

[Goanet]cybermatrimonials

2005-07-08 Thread Alba Fernandes


Hello Goanetters,

Well said Dr. Ambert Pimenta, Eugene Correia and Frederick Noronha.  To 
marry and who to marry is a very personal choice and should be left as a 
personal matter.  Every person has a right to decide on what to choose in 
life.  So the rest who are against this whole issue should mind their own 
business rather than interfere into  someone else's.


Thanks and regards,

Alba Fernandes

Re: [Goanet]Re: 1089 Salgaokars Petition The Governor


  We the residents of Saligao, would like to
 preserve the entire 
  Salmona Spring area in our village as a protected
 forest, bird 
  sanctuary and conservation area.  This needs to be
 done in order 
  to protect the rich biodiversity of this unique
 bit of natural 
  heritage left to us by our ancestors.
  
  Thank you.
  Signed by 1089 villagers.
  (petition ends)
 
 
 
  muriel  mario,


   Mario ,

Can you update us on the position of Saligao
Salmona Spring area.

   rene 
 
 


__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com

RE: [Goanet]Al Qaeda in Europe.



 


 rene replies : YES !




--- Mario Goveia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- rene barreto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   You being a responsible , British Goan 
  gentleman - should be careful what you write or 
  what you say. 
  
 Mario asks:
 Rene, do you have any idea what you are talking
 about?
 
 


__
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Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com

[Goanet]Manmohan calls terror a global problem

2005-07-08 Thread carlos6143

http://www.ndtv.com/morenews/showmorestory.asp?slug=Manmohan+calls+terror+a+global+problemid=75691
NDTV Correspondent
Friday, July 8, 2005 (Oxford):

A clearly emotional Dr Manmohan Singh tried to reach out to the British
public today, while receiving an honourary degree in civil law in
Oxford.
Expressing shock over the terrorist attacks in London, the Prime
Minister said that India, which has been a victim of terror, stood by
the British people.
My sincere condolences to the families of those who died. We stand
behind UK and especially London. I express shock and anger, he said.
In fact, combating terror and a collective effort in defeating it was
the central theme that the Prime Minister is taking to every platform,
from Gleneagles to Oxford.

Transnational operations
Today also the PM started by deviating from his written speech to
emphasise on the danger that global terrorism poses.
It is a threat to all and feeds on hatred and cynicism. All of us who
believe in the rule of law must join hands to wipe the scourge out, he
added.
In the current globalised world, the terror industry too has
transnational operations. It can strike anywhere, from New York, Bali
and Madrid to Ayodhya or even London.
It therefore needs a global effort to strike at its root and that's the
message that the Indian Prime Minister has been making strongly in
Oxford, England.

This insane cowardly act on UK should be condemned by everybody. As
Bush rightly said, Either you are with us or you are with the
terrorists. This is not the time to point fingers. This is an attack
against UK and everyone should be united to support Blair.

Regards,
Carlos

Re: [Goanet]Caste and Goanet

Very good, George.  I'm glad to see you have retained
your sense of humor, what with all the weeping and
gnashing of teeth at what the evil USA is doing to
Saddam The Great, and the poor Iraqi Sunnis who now
face the depressing fate that they are no better than
the Shia and Kurds and can no longer beat and kill and
torture and rape at will.  Tsk, tsk, tsk.

Hey, even the erstwhile JP-II The Great did not oppose
Saddam The Great and his atrocities but found the US
action to replace him to be undesirable.  With
potential Saints like that, who needs sinners?

--- George Pinto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Dear all,
 
 This is not official, but I heard at the Friday
 Mapusa market this morning that soon Goanet will
 branch off into different d-lists structured for
 niche audiences as follows:
 
 Caste-free Catholics
 Guilt-laced caste-free Catholics
 Caste practicing Catholics who oppose Hindus
 practicing the caste system
 Caste-free Goans who oppose caste but support the
 class system unless they are impacted
 Caste-free Goans who support plain text posts
 Caste-free Goans who support HTML and plain text
 posts
 Caste-free non-Catholics who support caste-free
 Catholics
 Caste-free Goans who support scheduled castes but
 not scheduled tribes
 Caste-free Goans who are beyond caste in marriage
 Caste free Goans who are beyond caste but discovered
 their spouses caste after marriage
 Goans who have no clue what is going on in Goa
 Goans who have no clue what is going on in Goa but
 know their caste
 Goans and non-Goans in Goa exploited by the caste
 and class system.
 Goans and non-Goans in Goa exploiting others through
 the class and caste system.
 
 These lists will operate shortly. For the remaining
 two people left who do not fall into the
 categories above, there will be no discussion list
 as they are married to each other and currently
 not on speaking terms (no discussion).
 
 This is the new vision of Goanet, everyone be happy.
  So now you know the truth.
 
 Regards,
 George

Re: [Goanet]PM slams London blasts

--- Viviana [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Gabe Menezes wrote:
 
 ...The big powers, such as Germany and France as
 well as many others stayed out.  Their citizens are
 sleeping happy while we have to live with fear.
 
 HI Gabe - Without entering into a discussion about
 Iraq, I shall take 
 issue with your statement that the French are
 sleeping happy,  There 
 have been race riots in France lately with Muslim
 students beating up on 
 little frenchies  -  their term for non-Muslim
 French citizens.  I'll 
 find a link to an article and send it to you
 privately.
 
 Also, it's well documented that Blacque Jacque
 Chirac and Saddam were 
 thick as thieves, that's why he stayed out of Iraq,
 also because 20% of the population of France is 
 Muslim.
 
Mario adds:
Viviana, someone should remind ex-Brit-serviceman, Mr.
Gabe, that the Brits have lived in fear from terrorist
attacks for decades.  Perhaps he is too young to
remember the IRA attacks.  And if the cowards in
Spain, France and Germany joined in the war against
terrorism, maybe everyone could sleep easier.  As it
is their overt and covert moral support for the
jihadis only gives the terrorists strength and hope. 
In this unconventional WW-III going on, one cannot be
against those fighting the Islamo-fascists and then
claim that they are also against the terrorists.

Re: [Goanet]How will the left wingers spin this?

--- Mervyn Lobo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 duda,
 You lost all credibility here when you used the name
 of Jesus Christ to cuss.
 
 Everybody is aware that you no longer have any
 thought process. All you do is repeat what you have 
 heard, just like a parrot does.
 
 Mervyn3.0
 BTW, you should have listened to the advice Harron
 Sidiqqui gave you regarding your language.
 
Mario asks:
Can anyone decipher this gibberish?  I thought Bosco
keeps lecturing us that honest debate means responding
to issues that have been raised, not on ad hominem
attacks on those who raised them.

Re: [Goanet] Siege mentality.

--- Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 But it is quite appropriate for victims to hold 
 their government accountable, in addition, for not 
 protecting them against such an act.
 
Mario opines:
So now it is the British government that needs to be
held accountable responsible for the terrorist
attacks.  Which must mean that the US government must
be held accountable for 9/11, and the Indonesian
government for Bali, and the Indian government for the
tens of thousands of Kashmiris and other Indians
killed since 1947.

I thought that these governments have all been held
accountable in subsequent elections, and will be held
accountable in future elections, which is how a
democracy holds it's governments accountable.

How about holding the murderous jihadis accountable
for a change, something Santosh failed to call for? 
And how about the UN and all the countries sitting on
the sidelines and doing nothing to help in the
worldwide war on terrorism.  Shouldn't we hold them
accountable as well?

Re: [Goanet]Al Qaeda in Europe.

--- cornel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Halur,
 What I find really surprising is that the mighty USA
 can do wonders in space technology but can't get 
 Bin Laden. Are they really trying hard?

Mario responds:
Cornel, first let me say I'm happy that none of you
were anywhere near the cowardly attacks, and I hope
your feckless Mayor Ken The Red Livingstone will
live up to his newly discovered fighting words, having
learned that sucking up to radical Imams and
delighting Gabe by insulting Bush, did not get him the
protection he thought he had.

To your question, yes, the mighty US are trying very
hard, but it is apparently not easy to find a worm
that can burrow underground.  Besides, the US is being
aided by the mighty Brits, who are supposed to know
Afghanistan like the backs of their hands.  Of course,
the mighty French, Germans and Canucks always show up
after the fighting is over and are involved in
peacekeeping.  They probably would not recognize old
Bin if he walked up and slapped them in the face.

What I find really surprising is how some folks can
try and divert attention from all the positive news in
the middle-east by dredging up such cynical ideas,
after ostensibly knowing what Waziristan is like, the
double game that Pakistan plays, and the possible
involvement of Iran, where some reports say Bin Laden
has been given sanctuary.  And, don't you agree that
catching Bin Laden alive will lead to a media circus
and far more propaganda than he is getting right now? 
They better bring him back not alive.  Besides, I
doubt the real jihadis even care about old Bin any
more, because he is never around when they need him.

The mighty USA, under the lover, not a fighter Bill
Clinton,  tried to look the other way throughout the
90's after Bin Laden ostentatiously declared war on
the US in the early 90's, then declared the US the
weak horse and himself the strong horse and let
loose a barrage of attacks that started in NY in 1993
and culminated in 9/11, all but the last one while
Bill was desperately trying to hide from his own semen
stains.

Fortunately, by 9/11 the lover-buy had been replaced
by the cowboy, who started off by wanting nothing to
do with nation-building and was roundly castigated
by the European intelligentsia for that silly notion. 
He changed his mind after 9/11, and you have probably
forgotten but it was conventional wisdom in ole
Blighty that there was no way that the callow US
forces could ever take on the battle hardened Afghan
warriors.  After all, the myth went, the Afghans had
never been defeated, even by the mighty Brits and the
even mightier Russkies.  Well, we know what the young
Americans did to the mighty Afghan warriors, and the
strong horse has not been seen since, hiding like a
good coward and encouraging others to die for the
cause.

Re: [Goanet]The London Blasts: A Goan Policeman speaks

2005-07-08 Thread Gabe Menezes

On 08/07/05, cornel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi Eddie,
 We Londoners are paying the expected high price for Blair's folly over Iraq
 when Iraq had not threatened the UK in any way. Terrorism definitely cannot
 be justified, but Blair's unjustified war, and sanctimonious holier than
 thou approach become really tested now. ..The 
 article from today's Guardian newspaper by Robin Cook and transmitted to
Goanet by Gabe, sums up my position, and those of most among my wide circle
of friends/contacts, on our current woes in London.

Cornel.

Comment: I did not post the Robin Cook article here; so before readers
enquire here goes:

Robin Cook was a Member of the Cabinet, former Foreign office Minister.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/terrorism/story/0,12780,1523838,00.html 

The struggle against terrorism cannot be won by military means 

The G8 must seize the opportunity to address the wider issues at the
root of such atrocities

Robin Cook
Friday July 8, 2005
The Guardian 

I have rarely seen the Commons so full and so silent as when it met
yesterday to hear of the London bombings. A forum that often is
raucous and rowdy was solemn and grave. A chamber that normally is a
bear pit of partisan emotions was united in shock and sorrow. Even Ian
Paisley made a humane plea to the press not to repeat the offence that
occurred in Northern Ireland when journalists demanded comment from
relatives before they were informed that their loved ones were dead.
The immediate response to such human tragedy must be empathy with the
pain of those injured and the grief of those bereaved. We recoil more
deeply from loss of life in such an atrocity because we know the
unexpected disappearance of partners, children and parents must be
even harder to bear than a natural death. It is sudden, and therefore
there is no farewell or preparation for the blow. Across London today
there are relatives whose pain may be more acute because they never
had the chance to offer or hear last words of affection.

It is arbitrary and therefore an event that changes whole lives, which
turn on the accident of momentary decisions. How many people this
morning ask themselves how different it might have been if their
partner had taken the next bus or caught an earlier tube?

But perhaps the loss is hardest to bear because it is so difficult to
answer the question why it should have happened. This weekend we will
salute the heroism of the generation that defended Britain in the last
war. In advance of the commemoration there have been many stories told
of the courage of those who risked their lives and sometimes lost
their lives to defeat fascism. They provide moving, humbling examples
of what the human spirit is capable, but at least the relatives of the
men and women who died then knew what they were fighting for. What
purpose is there to yesterday's senseless murders? Who could possibly
imagine that they have a cause that might profit from such pointless
carnage?

At the time of writing, no group has surfaced even to explain why they
launched the assault. Sometime over the next few days we may be
offered a website entry or a video message attempting to justify the
impossible, but there is no language that can supply a rational basis
for such arbitrary slaughter. The explanation, when it is offered, is
likely to rely not on reason but on the declaration of an obsessive
fundamentalist identity that leaves no room for pity for victims who
do not share that identity.

Yesterday the prime minister described the bombings as an attack on
our values as a society. In the next few days we should remember that
among those values are tolerance and mutual respect for those from
different cultural and ethnic backgrounds. Only the day before, London
was celebrating its coup in winning the Olympic Games, partly through
demonstrating to the world the success of our multicultural
credentials. Nothing would please better those who planted yesterday's
bombs than for the atrocity to breed suspicion and hostility to
minorities in our own community. Defeating the terrorists also means
defeating their poisonous belief that peoples of different faiths and
ethnic origins cannot coexist.

In the absence of anyone else owning up to yesterday's crimes, we will
be subjected to a spate of articles analysing the threat of militant
Islam. Ironically they will fall in the same week that we recall the
tenth anniversary of the massacre at Srebrenica, when the powerful
nations of Europe failed to protect 8,000 Muslims from being
annihilated in the worst terrorist act in Europe of the past
generation.

Osama bin Laden is no more a true representative of Islam than General
Mladic, who commanded the Serbian forces, could be held up as an
example of Christianity. After all, it is written in the Qur'an that
we were made into different peoples not that we might despise each
other, but that we might understand each other.

Bin Laden was, though, a product of a

Re: [Goanet]re: cybermatrimonials (and caste)

2005-07-08 Thread Viviana

I agree with Eugene and find Halur's point interesting. Does anyone 
really believe that a mother from a SC/ST would actively look for an RC 
Goan Brahmin for her daughter?? Don't you think she'd look around for 
someone within her own ethnic/cultural/racial group? Presuming that she 
does want someone just like her for her daughter, who would condemn 
her? Is it the case that Indians look to marry up? I certainly did, 
but that's another story. :-)))


Even as the parents of the Goan RC Brahmin wouldn't want their son to 
marry a domestic worker, so the parents of a domestic worker probably 
wouldn't want their daughter to marry the Goan RC Brahmin either, don't 
you think?


Having said this, I also believe that to the extent that caste-ism harms 
people economically it is most definitely evil and should be routed. To 
the extent that people prefer to socialize with people like themselves 
on a broad spectrum, that's universal. I'm certainly guilty of it.


Viviana


halur rasho wrote:


In the US most personals have a race preference, for
example a woman may describe herself as SWF (single
white female) seeking a SWM(single white male). Are
such people racists?

--- Eugene Correia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 


Can't understand the hullabaloo over mention of
caste
in cybermatrimonials.
If one puts an ad asking for particular caste, the
person is within his/her rights. Maybe the person
wants to marrying within his/her caste.
Banning of adverts requesting that prospective
partners meet the requirements is not the answer.
The
adverts haven't hurt anyone. 
Those who are looking at issues such as caste in

these
innocuous posts are people with a deep sense of
quilt.
The Times of India even had (or still has) a section
on NRI grooms. (Not sure of NRI brides). This is
just
another filter. There may be spinsters looking just
for NRIs as prospecive lifepartners.
Suppose a caste-conscious person puts an advert
without mentioning caste as a prerequisite, the
person
will be bombarded with more emails. So a filter such
as caste helps in narrowing the field.d
Why do people put fair-skinned,
convent-educated,
homely, outgoing? These are obviously to convey
a
person's strong or plus points.
The issue of casteism needs to be tackled in a wider
scope and not just through the personal domain of
cybermatrimonials.

Eugene






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RE: [Goanet]Al Qaeda in Europe.

--- rene barreto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  You being a responsible , British Goan 
 gentleman - should be careful what you write or 
 what you say. 
 
Mario asks:
Rene, do you have any idea what you are talking about?

Re: [Goanet]Goddess SARASWATI

2005-07-08 Thread halur rasho

Mr. Noronha,

While I am no expert on Hindu mythology , I will make
the following points..

1)  You ask how will the Hindu community react to your
depiction ...etc?

Answer) To describe people, who by accident of birth,
are born of Hindu parents as somehow belonging to one
entity with a common world view is mistaken. We are
all individuals, and unlke semetic religions , do not
have a doctrine or a well articulated worl view.
Secondly it is NONE of the so called Hindu
communitie's) business to criticize your artistic work
on religious grounds. That would be a gross violation
of your freedomof expression. Ofcours they are free to
tear your work to pieces on artistic grounds :)

2) As a child I remeber Saraswati puja as being
dedicated to learning and lakshmi puja as being
dedicated to Wealth. One remebers being harrassed to
study harder by one's elders on Saraswati puja, with
pointed references to one's cousins excellent
acadameic   performances as opposed to own's on.
:akshmi puja on the other hand was free of such
admonitions and I remeber mainly as an occassion of
good food and new clothes..

3)But, the River Saraswati is significant in indian
mythology so Saraswati as a Goddess of water seems
appropriate...

--- Jorge/Livia de Abreu Noronha
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
  According to Rui Gomes Pereira's GOA - Hindu
 Temples and Deities,
 Saraswati or Sharada, the spouse of Brahma, is the
 Goddess of Knowledge,
 i.e. of Science and Arts. In the book Indian
 Mythology by Veronica Ions we
 can read: (1) that in the Vedas she was a water
 deity, goddess of a river
 of the same name which flowed west from the
 Himalayas, through the first
 Aryan settlements; (2) that the next stage in
 Saraswati's mythological
 history was her identification with the holy rituals
 performed on her banks,
 this led to the belief that she influenced the
 composition of the hymns and
 thus to her identification with Vach, the goddess of
 speech, it being
 attributed to her the invention of  Sanskrit,
 language of the Brahmins, of
 scriptures and of scholarship ...; and (3) that as
 Brahma's wife she
 provides the power to execute what Brahma has
 conceived with his creative
 intelligence. She is goddess of all creative arts
 and in particular of
 poetry and music, learning and science.
 
  I am interested in knowing whether, based
 especially in Veronica Ions's
 description, it is legitimate to associate Saraswati
 with the seas and
 oceans and/or with rivers and invoke her as Goddess
 of Oceans or of  Rivers,
 or one has
 to stick to her appelation as Goddess of Science and
 Arts. Would any one
 well versed in the matter kindly elucidate? How
 would the Hindu community
 react to seeing Saraswati depicted, in a poem
 or in a song and dance, as Goddess of All Oceans or
 of All Rivers? - Many
 thanks in advance.
 
  Jorge
 
 
 
 
 
 
 





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Re: [Goanet]PM slams London blasts

2005-07-08 Thread Peter D'Souza

Gabe Menezes said:
The big powers, such as Germany and France as well as many others
stayed out. Their citizens are sleeping happy while we have to live with
fear.

Gabe,
Why do you consider Germany and France to be big powers?
Peter

[Goanet]Re: How will the left wingers spin this?

2005-07-08 Thread Frederick Noronha (FN)

From: Mario Goveia [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Goanet]How will the left wingers spin this?

 ...Let's see how the BBC, The Guardian, the NYT, the
 Toronto Globe  Mail, Toronto Star and others on the
 left will spin the outrage in London

Tariq Ali is both a left-winger and of Muslim origin. In my view, the
point he makes below need to be taken note of, rather than going along
solely with the version largely emerging from the dominant media
perspective.-FN

http://www.guardian.co.uk/terrorism/story/0,12780,1523821,00.html

The price of occupation. 

Tariq Ali
Friday July 8, 2005
The Guardian

During the last phase of the Troubles, the IRA targeted mainland 
Britain: it came close to blowing up Margaret Thatcher and her cabinet 
in Brighton. Some years later a missile was fired at No 10. London's 
financial quarter was also targeted. There was no secret as to the 
identity of the organisation that carried out the hits or its demands. 
And all this happened despite the various Prevention of Terrorism Acts 
passed by the Commons.

The bombers who targeted London yesterday are anonymous. It is assumed 
that those who carried out these attacks are linked to al-Qaida. We 
simply do not know. Al-Qaida is not the only terrorist group in 
existence. It has rivals within the Muslim diaspora. But it is safe to 
assume that the cause of these bombs is the unstinting support given by 
New Labour and its prime minister to the US wars in Afghanistan and 
Iraq.

One of the arguments deployed by Ken Livingstone, the mayor of London, 
when he appealed to Tony Blair not to support the war in Iraq was 
prescient: An assault on Iraq will inflame world opinion and 
jeopardise security and peace everywhere. London, as one of the major 
world cities, has a great deal to lose from war and a lot to gain from 
peace, international cooperation and global stability.

Most Londoners (as the rest of the country) were opposed to the Iraq 
war. Tragically, they have suffered the blow and paid the price for the 
re-election of Blair and a continuation of the war.

Ever since 9/11, I have been arguing that the war against terror is 
immoral and counterproductive. It sanctions the use of state terror - 
bombing raids, torture, countless civilian deaths in Afghanistan and 
Iraq - against Islamo-anarchists whose numbers are small, but whose 
reach is deadly. The solution then, as now, is political, not military. 
The British ruling elite understood this perfectly well in the case of 
Ireland. Security measures, anti-terror laws rushed through parliament, 
identity cards, a curtailment of civil liberties, will not solve the 
problem. If anything, they will push young Muslims in the direction of 
mindless violence.

The real solution lies in immediately ending the occupation of Iraq, 
Afghanistan and Palestine. Just because these three wars are reported 
sporadically and mean little to the everyday lives of most Europeans 
does not mean the anger and bitterness they arouse in the Muslim world 
and its diaspora is insignificant. As long as western politicians wage 
their wars and their colleagues in the Muslim world watch in silence, 
young people will be attracted to the groups who carry out random acts 
of revenge.

At the beginning of the G8, Blair suggested that poverty was the cause 
of terrorism. It is not so. The principal cause of this violence is 
the violence being inflicted on the people of the Muslim world. And 
unless this is recognised, the horrors will continue.

Tariq Ali's latest book is Speaking of Empire and Resistance.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [Goanet]re: cybermatrimonials

2005-07-08 Thread halur rasho

In the US most personals have a race preference, for
example a woman may describe herself as SWF (single
white female) seeking a SWM(single white male). Are
such people racists?

--- Eugene Correia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Can't understand the hullabaloo over mention of
 caste
 in cybermatrimonials.
 If one puts an ad asking for particular caste, the
 person is within his/her rights. Maybe the person
 wants to marrying within his/her caste.
 Banning of adverts requesting that prospective
 partners meet the requirements is not the answer.
 The
 adverts haven't hurt anyone. 
 Those who are looking at issues such as caste in
 these
 innocuous posts are people with a deep sense of
 quilt.
 The Times of India even had (or still has) a section
 on NRI grooms. (Not sure of NRI brides). This is
 just
 another filter. There may be spinsters looking just
 for NRIs as prospecive lifepartners.
 Suppose a caste-conscious person puts an advert
 without mentioning caste as a prerequisite, the
 person
 will be bombarded with more emails. So a filter such
 as caste helps in narrowing the field.d
 Why do people put fair-skinned,
 convent-educated,
 homely, outgoing? These are obviously to convey
 a
 person's strong or plus points.
 The issue of casteism needs to be tackled in a wider
 scope and not just through the personal domain of
 cybermatrimonials.
 
 Eugene
 
 
 
 
   
 
 Sell on Yahoo! Auctions  no fees. Bid on great
 items.  
 http://auctions.yahoo.com/
 
 





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[Goanet]Caste and Goanet

2005-07-08 Thread George Pinto

Dear all,

This is not official, but I heard at the Friday Mapusa market this morning that 
soon Goanet will
branch off into different d-lists structured for niche audiences as follows:

Caste-free Catholics
Guilt-laced caste-free Catholics
Caste practicing Catholics who oppose Hindus practicing the caste system
Caste-free Goans who oppose caste but support the class system unless they are 
impacted
Caste-free Goans who support plain text posts
Caste-free Goans who support HTML and plain text posts
Caste-free non-Catholics who support caste-free Catholics
Caste-free Goans who support scheduled castes but not scheduled tribes
Caste-free Goans who are beyond caste in marriage
Caste free Goans who are beyond caste but discovered their spouses caste after 
marriage
Goans who have no clue what is going on in Goa
Goans who have no clue what is going on in Goa but know their caste
Goans and non-Goans in Goa exploited by the caste and class system.
Goans and non-Goans in Goa exploiting others through the class and caste system.

These lists will operate shortly. For the remaining two people left who do not 
fall into the
categories above, there will be no discussion list as they are married to each 
other and currently
not on speaking terms (no discussion).

This is the new vision of Goanet, everyone be happy.  So now you know the truth.

Regards,
George

[Goanet]Goddess SARASWATI

2005-07-08 Thread Jorge/Livia de Abreu Noronha


 According to Rui Gomes Pereira's GOA - Hindu Temples and Deities,
Saraswati or Sharada, the spouse of Brahma, is the Goddess of Knowledge,
i.e. of Science and Arts. In the book Indian Mythology by Veronica Ions we
can read: (1) that in the Vedas she was a water deity, goddess of a river
of the same name which flowed west from the Himalayas, through the first
Aryan settlements; (2) that the next stage in Saraswati's mythological
history was her identification with the holy rituals performed on her banks,
this led to the belief that she influenced the composition of the hymns and
thus to her identification with Vach, the goddess of speech, it being
attributed to her the invention of  Sanskrit, language of the Brahmins, of
scriptures and of scholarship ...; and (3) that as Brahma's wife she
provides the power to execute what Brahma has conceived with his creative
intelligence. She is goddess of all creative arts and in particular of
poetry and music, learning and science.

 I am interested in knowing whether, based especially in Veronica Ions's
description, it is legitimate to associate Saraswati with the seas and
oceans and/or with rivers and invoke her as Goddess of Oceans or of  Rivers,
or one has
to stick to her appelation as Goddess of Science and Arts. Would any one
well versed in the matter kindly elucidate? How would the Hindu community
react to seeing Saraswati depicted, in a poem
or in a song and dance, as Goddess of All Oceans or of All Rivers? - Many
thanks in advance.

 Jorge

[Goanet]Race riots in France

2005-07-08 Thread Viviana


http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/005/446loxwa.asp?pg=1

Hi Gabe - this is one link to information about the recect race riots in 
France that no one wants to talk about.


Viviana

[Goanet]Non-standardization of Konkani and use of Roman script for Konkani

2005-07-08 Thread Ancy Paladka

Non-standardization of Konkani and use of Roman script for Konkani
By Wilberious Evanglist D'Souza, Udupi district, Karnataka
__
Let us examine why Konkani survives albeit in many dialects, despite
the fact that the Konkani linguistic community (encompassing all who
speak any of the many dialects of Konkani) is just 0.5% of the Indian
population, sparsely scattered all over India and abroad just like
scattered dots on a large canvass.  They are divided into three
religious denominations viz. Christians, Muslims and Hindus. For many
centuries they were concentrated at Goa, till part of the Konkani
linguistic community spread to the state of Karnataka.
The primary reason why each one of the many groups of Konkani
linguistic community speaks a different dialect of Konkani, is the
passionate love for one's mother tongue.  That is why it is alive
today in many of its dialectal forms.
For each member of a dialectal group of Konkani linguistic community,
that dialect one speaks at home, is one's mother tongue.  No other
dialect of Konkani, would be considered as one's mother tongue.  With
apologies to Rev. Dr Alexander D'Souza, President of Konkani Sahitya
Academy of Karnataka, a standardi-zation of many dialects of Konkani
will not bring about the development of one single Konkani language
but shall only create one more dialect.  He refers to the Goan system
as a model for introduction of Konkani in schools of South Kanara
District and Udupi District of Karnataka as an optional language. 
This utterly disre-gards the fact that of the whole area of the
Konkani linguistic community, only Goa has adopted Konkani as the
state language, that too after Konkani was recognized as an
independent language, and schools were estab-lished with Konkani as
medium of instruction in 1992.  Even then the number of such schools
has steadily dwindled and are dwindling owing to lack of students and
reluctance of Konkanis to learn Konkani as a language.  So,
over-enthusiastically attempting to take such a step in Karnataka, is
not only a precocious one but also a waste of Government
grants/patrons' donations.
Why is it so?  English is the language of the world we live in today. 
Love, passionate longing make people indulge in wishful thinking that
one's mother tongue will attain the pinnacle of literary glory, which
is not at all realistic.  For sheer survival, professional success,
acquisition of knowledge and its application in order to ensure one a
comfortable life, one chooses English and not any of the scores of
mother tongues/dialects each of which is spoken by a limited number of
persons.  Here Konkani in its varied dialectal forms, or even with the
standardization as proposed by many a representative of self-styled
Konkani organizations, fails miserably.
Today everyone performs the exercise of cost/benefit analysis before
accepting any proposition or option, or even before buying an article.
 Here standardization of teaching Konkani as an optional subject in
South Kanara or Udupi schools, fails to entice students and their
parents.  The self-styled protagonists of Konkani fail to understand a
major point of fact which is stated below:
Linguistically, Konkani community may be equated to a flower garden. 
Just as in a garden there are flowers of varying colour, fragrance,
size, even genus of stench, each has a place of relevance and
importance in that garden.  That is why it is a flower garden.  If one
of the flowers, say rose, claims that it is the only genuine flower
and the rest are all spurious it is absurd or idiotic.  So are
different dialects of Konkani.  None or no section/clan of the Konkani
Community can claim that the dialect of Konkani that he/she speaks is
genuine one and others are spurious.  Just as a garden that contains
only rose plants or a single variety of flower plants, becomes not a
garden but a commercial plantation, which will deprive that garden its
aesthetic beauty.  Or to put it differently, different dialects of
Konkani may be compared to branches of a large tree i.e. Konkani.  No
branch can claim that it is the only legitimate one and the others are
illegitimate.  It is absurd and obscene as it casts aspersion on the
mother tree by one of its children.  How ignominious and deplorable
that is!  Therefore, all dialects of Konkani are to be respected and
promoted since any attempts to standardize are bound to fail.  Hence,
the Konkani linguistic community is to be nurtured as a floral garden
and not by standardization as attempting to plant a commercial
plantation.
Despite this disheartening note, I am confident Konkani will continue
to exist as long as Konkanis continue to speak it, in its varied
dialectal forms and shall continue to exist as a flower garden,
provided the same appreciation, affection, and passionate love by
Konkanis to their varied dialectal mother tongue continues.  Let it be
a warning to over-enthusiastic protagonists of

[Goanet]FIRST WOMAN Dy Speaker of GLA

2005-07-08 Thread godfrey gonsalves

Both Mr Francisco Sardinha 59 year an ex teacher   INC
MLA Curtorim and Ms Victoria Fernandes  71 yrs (26th
July) (affectionately called Mummy) an ex teacher INC
MLA Santa Cruz were  elected this afternoon the
Speaker and  Deputy Speaker respectively of the Goa
Legislative Assembly, in a House with effective
strenght of 37.

Curtorim in Salcete is the birth place of the duo

The BJP candidates Priol MLA Mr Vishwas Satarkar and
the Tivim MLA Mr Sadanand Shet Tanavade were
unsuccessful.

It may be recalled that in the House of 40 the Velim
Independent MLA Mr Filipe Neri Rodrigues
disqualification issue is subjudiced and elections of
both Mr Rajendra Arlekar (SC) the BJP  ex- MLAs
Vasco-da-Gama and Mr Dayanand Mandrekar have been set
aside.

With the election of Ms Victoria Fernandes as Deputy
Speaker the State has its first woman Deputy Speaker
in the Goa Legislative Assembly.

Ironically while the INC has been going hammer and
tongs over the issue of 33% reservation for women; in
Goa the INC led NCP MGP coalition did not deem it fit
to give a woman representation in the Cabinet.  But it
appears that Mr Rane was guided by the fact that her
miserably poor victory margin in the June 2002
elections a mere 40 votes was not convincing enough
for him to provide her a cabinet posting.

Ms Fernandes has been an exemplary woman of substance
very amiable gutsy and could appropriately be
described as a man in dress for she has been in the
forefront on several issues affecting the traditional
occupations of Goans the Ramponkars the toddy tappers
and womens issue.

Even in the just concluded bye-elections Ms Fernandes
gave vent to her bitterness over the communal agenda
of the BJP headed by Mr Manohar Parrikar and can be
safely attributed the credit for the victory of INC 
NCP candidates in the fray.

GODFREY J I GONSALVES
Borda Margao Goa 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]









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Re: [Goanet]Re Al Queda in Europe.

--- gjlf labour [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 We agree with Nasci Caldeira that this is not the
 time for division howsoever small. This is the 
 time to close ranks against all those who fight for 
 their cause using violence as their misguided 
 weapon.
 
 We commiserate with the British people and hope that
 they remain firm in their resolve to eliminate the 
 scourge of terrorism throughout the world.
 
Mario adds:
I join all people of good will in offering solidarity
to the Brits in this time of tragedy, praying for
their dead, and encouraging them to show their
trademark resolve in the face of the cowards who have
attacked innocent civilians.  These are the same kind
of Islamo-fascists that have caused mayhem in India
since independence in their attempts to terrorize and
get their way in Kashmir.

I predict the Brit reaction will be just the opposite
of the Spaniards, who surrendered to the
Islamo-fascists after just one bombing attack.  London
Mayor Livingstone is a classic example of this.  He
had opposed his own party and Tony Blair, rewarded the
most vicious Imams in London with public acclaim and
publicly insulted President Bush in his attempts to
appease the Islamo-fascists and keep his city safe. 
No one would know that from his comments yesterday. 
He has learned a bitter lesson in who the real enemy
is and unfortunately learned it the hard way.

However, let me also remind you that your message
seems to fall on deaf ears in much of Europe, with the
exception of Britain, Italy, Poland and Denmark.  If
the other major European countries closed ranks behind
the US-led coalition in the worldwide battle against
terrorism, the jihadis would not have much chance.

Regardless of your opinion on the regime change in
Iraq, the fact is that the Islamo-fascists have
rallied on the side of the brutal Saddam Hussain
faction of Sunni Baathists, and are again trying to
intimidate the majority Shia and Kurds in Iraq in an
attempt to deny them freedom and democracy.  This
should provide you with a clue that Iraq was always
going to be a major battleground in the larger war
against Islamic terrorism.  Saddam supported the
terrorists, gave them sanctuary and money, he had
thumbed his nose at 17 UN resolutions over 12 years,
and was looting the oil-for-food program and bribing
France and Russia to get the sanctions removed so that
he could restart his WMD program.

So, in addition to offering solidarity to the Brits,
let us realize that there are some who will try to
blame any and everyone but the perpetrators of this
cowardly attack, and we must join in opposing them as
well.  All they achieve is to provide moral support
for the Islamo-fascists.

Re: [Goanet]Re: CYBERMATRIMONIALS - Institutional casteism


Hello Bernardo,
I am sorry I have fallen well behind in my responses to Goanet posts. 
However,

I feel honoured that you did want me to reply to the Cybermatrimonials issue
relating to caste.  By now,  I feel that  Mr Luis from Kuwait has received 
perfectly  good answers which reflect my thinking on why caste should 
definitely not feature on Goanet Cybermatrimonials. The three responses were
from Halur Rasho, Aloysisus and Fred and I really do not have more to add 
for now.

Cornel
- Original Message - 
From: Bernado Colaco [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: goanet@goanet.org
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 3:29 AM
Subject: RE: [Goanet]Re: CYBERMATRIMONIALS - Institutional casteism



Luis has made some interesting comments on the caste
issue. In 61 Goans were supposed to have been
emancipated from the caste.

Education was for all. But why do the puppets allocate
areas for the caste system? Is this not institutional
casteism?

Where is the anti-Portuguese lobby now? Do they have a
clue as to what is happening in Goa, other than eating
watermelons from Parra?

Cornel please comment!



B. Colaco



 Why do the Govt. publicly advertise that certain
quota
 is reserved for schedule caste and schedule
tribes. Is
 Govt. not openly favouring and following casteism?

 Can anybody give me an explanation on this
please!!
 Luis Rodrigues
 Chumbel / Dubai











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Re: [Goanet]Al Qaeda in Europe.


Gabe,
Vis a vis the post below, I believe your attitude towards Blair's 
unjustified attack on Iraq is entirely realistic and reflects the majority 
position in the UK. It is definitely not defeatist. That the terrorist 
attack on London, yesterday, was most likely was known to all. It merely 
confirms that Blair has even more blood on his hands now than before. That 
man has, virtually singlehandedly, put all of us, including visitors, at 
risk in London. The backlash from the resilient people of London/UK against 
Blair is inevitable and he should go now and even be treated as a war 
criminal as a significant number believe. Put simply, Iraq did not threaten 
the UK, the replacement of a leader of a nation was illegal as there was no 
UN sanction for this or for a war. Consequently, there is likely to be, 
unnecessarily, lasting resentment against Britain for a long time to come. 
If anything, the war against Iraq is the reason for so much jihadist 
insurgency and Blair had been warned about this. Instead, he believed that 
he would be seen as a great liberator of Iraq and has sought all kinds of 
bogus justifications for the war.


I am no pacificist and believe that some wars are justified e.g WW2 against 
Hitler, the need to resolve the situation in Bosnia etc but not the last one 
against Iraq. Sadam Hussein should have been finished off,  justifiably, by 
Bush senior in the Kuwait war.  Further, the USA would have been justified 
to attack Saudi Arabia, buddies or no buddies, because it was the Saudis who 
were principally responsible for 9/11. I can also understand, to a limited 
point,  their attack against Afghanistan for not delivering Bin Laden, a 
known criminal, for trial, but not their hypocracy at the point of attack on 
Iraq and killing huge numbers of innocent people, notwithstanding that Sadam 
Hussein was indeed a monster.

Cornel
- Original Message - 
From: Alfred de Tavares [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: goanet@goanet.org
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 6:16 PM
Subject: RE: [Goanet]Al Qaeda in Europe.



From: Gabe Menezes [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Reply-To: goanet@goanet.org
To: goanet@goanet.org
Subject: [Goanet]Al Qaeda in Europe.
Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 13:20:47 +0100

Dow Jones Newswires reports, that an Arabic Website states, that this
was in retaliation for British involvement in Iraq.

Thank you, Tony Blair for this.

Gabe Menezes.
--
Cheers,

Gabe Menezes.
London, England




Is'nt your attitude quite defeatist, Gabe.

Coming from an ex-service(?) man, it depresses.

Alfred de T.

Re: [Goanet]How will the left wingers spin this?

2005-07-08 Thread Mervyn Lobo

Mario Goveia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 The following was just sent to me by an Israeli
 friend.  It reminded me of the comments of some of
 the virulent anti-American posters on GX:
 
 Let's see how the BBC, The Guardian, the NYT, the
 Toronto Globe  Mail, Toronto Star and others on the
 left will spin the outrage in London.  Will they
 call it terror?  Will the assassins be called 
 terrorists?



duda,
You lost all credibility here when you used the name
of Jesus Christ to cuss.

Everybody is aware that you no longer have any thought
process. All you do is repeat what you have heard,
just like a parrot does.

Mervyn3.0
BTW, you should have listened to the advice Harron
Sidiqqui gave you regarding your language.

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Re: [Goanet] Siege mentality.

2005-07-08 Thread Santosh Helekar

--- Gabe Menezes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
Londoners are badly shaken with the bombings. Yes we
are resolved that these incidents will not deter us;


I for one would let Londoners and those directly
affected by these bombings express whatever feelings
they want to express at this time. Who are we to tell
them what to feel and how to say it? Everybody knows
that an act of terrorism was committed, and the
terrorists who did it are responsible. But it is quite
appropriate for victims to hold their government
accountable, in addition, for not protecting them
against such an act.

Cheers,

Santosh

Re: [Goanet]Re: Caste adverts - Viviana says Fire her! 2

I am only just catching up with posts, and from memory, am responding to a 
point/question by Viviana earlier.


There is a very great difference between the concepts of caste and class. 
They are definitely not synonomous. Both Jose and I had spelt out the 
difference in earlier posts on this theme and rather than reply to this 
issue yet again, I hope Viviana will look through the archives for an answer 
to her question.

Cornel
- Original Message - 
From: jose colaco [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: goanet@goanet.org
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 7:23 PM
Subject: [Goanet]Re: Caste adverts - Viviana says Fire her! 2



jose colaco wrote:

I am glad that No One bothered to respond to such a casteist question from 
Viviana. What do you mean by anyone married outside of his/her caste ? 
Perhaps NO ONE cares about this racist humbug called caste.



From: Viviana [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Right.  That's why there's never any mention of it on Goanet.  I guess 
I've been dreaming that I've been reading many many posts about caste. 
Wakey! Wakey!



JC responds,

Forget Wakey Wakey Dona Viviana . more appropriate to Read-ey Read-ey.

The mention of caste in posts is NOT (I repeat NOT) synonymous with 
support for the practice of Caste . Please take your time and read 
the posts ... except for that post from TRS - I'd be hard pressed (don't 
know about you) to find support for the practice of Caste.


BTW: Anyone who answered your question (like anyone who answered TRS' 
question) would be overtly supporting the CASTE SYSTEM.


Now  time for sleepy sleepy for me.

good wishes

jc
below OutCaste

BTW2 : Fire Viviana for true.

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Re: [Goanet]Al Qaeda in Europe.

Halur,
What I find really surprising is that the mighty USA can do wonders in space 
technology but can't get Bin Laden. Are they really trying hard?

Cornel
- Original Message - 
From: halur rasho [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: goanet@goanet.org
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 8:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Goanet]Al Qaeda in Europe.

Mr. Menezes,
Are you not blaming the victim? I hope this leads to
rooting out Osama from his lair in Pakistan and
hanging him publicly.

--- Gabe Menezes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Dow Jones Newswires reports, that an Arabic Website
states, that this
was in retaliation for British involvement in Iraq.

Thank you, Tony Blair for this.

Gabe Menezes.
--
Cheers,

Gabe Menezes.
London, England

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Re: [Goanet]Siege mentality.

2005-07-08 Thread Floriano

Dear Gabe,

It is with shock that I watched yesterday's BBC et al.
And I held back the urge to go enquiring about friends  and  near and dear
ones in London, hoping that all will be well.

Yes, I do believe in the saying: Mazor kheuta punn  Udracho Jiu Veta.

At times we feel that our elected leaders do take arbitrary decisions. But
then we must understand that we have elected them to act for us. And that is
called democracy. When they
take good decisions we hail them. When they take bad decisions such as the
Iraq war, we hate them. And we say that we have given birth to Al Qaedas
and the Qaedas who blew the London substations and the bus. At this rate we
will have to renew our hate for the leaders who led us into the World War I
 II, and all the wars that have taken place in which someone or other of
everyone of us has died. We must hate the leaders for Chernobil, Bhopal,
Bangladesh war of 1971, Indira Gandhi's emergency etc
etc.

Next time we people go to vote to elect our leaders, let us first make sure
that the leaders will take only those decisions that will make our nations
not go to war, no one gets killed, everyone profits etc etc.  In this case
will shall not require armies and arms races and even police who can even
look sternly at us. We deserve better. In short, we must shove democracy in
a tincan and set it afloat in the high seas.

I do not blame Tony Blair. I blame the people who blame him and who have
again voted to bring him back. If he was  the guy who took Britain into Iraq
war where the brother of the soldier died, then he should be sitting home
and not be in the Parliament again and certainly not in the chair of the
Prime Ministr. Let the people of Britain cast in a mould a perfect Prime
Minister and there will be no need to go to vote for one ever again.

I don't buy the argument that Tony Blair should have listened to the people
who were telling him that Iraq war was no good for Britain for the very fact
that there were more Britishers who goaded him to go to war.

If leaders start listening to every Tom Dick and Harry, they will go raving
mad. And worst still, they will not be called LEADERS. Everyone one of us
would want our slave as our leader who will say only 'Yes Sir'.

Floriano
goasuraj



- Original Message -
From: Gabe Menezes [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: goanet@goanet.org
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 2:05 PM
Subject: [Goanet]Siege mentality.


I was awakened this morning by an elderly relative, who first enquired
if my sons were okay and could I please tell them not to go to work
today. Needless to say, I informed him that we have to continue and
cannot live with a siege mentality.

Londoners are badly shaken with the bombings. Yes we are resolved that
these incidents will not deter us; how many though are thinking this
was brought upon us by our P.M. Some months ago the father of a
soldier killed in the fighting in Iraq stood against the P.M. to make
his point, at what he felt was an adventure undertaken by the P.M. The
brother of a soldier killed in action, who himself was a soldier spoke
out strongly about the Iraq War and what he felt the needless death of
his brother. The P.M. got a good resounding slap in the elections when
many seats were lost in the elections. The P.M. admitted his mistakes
and resolved to listen to the public.

He was visibly shaken, when he made his speech yesterday. My gut
feeling is that he knows that he is being held responsible for the
bombings. These bombers it seems are locally grown British Muslims. If
we get another incident of this kind it will be just a matter of time
when we, Asians will start to get kicked around, irrespective of our
religion. Who are we going to blame then, for this?

It is fine for preachers who live in distant, small town places to ask
us to show fortitude. Try walking in London this morning with everyone
so subdued. Yes time will heal and we shall get back to normal. I do
hope that we shall not experience another attack.
--
Cheers,

Gabe Menezes.
London, England

Re: [Goanet]The London Blasts: A Goan Policeman speaks


Hi Eddie,
We Londoners are paying the expected high price for Blair's folly over Iraq 
when Iraq had not threatened the UK in any way. Terrorism definitely cannot 
be justified, but Blair's unjustified war, and sanctimonious holier than 
thou approach become really tested now.  Clearly, we needed and continue to 
need political and diplomatic solutions and not  military ones which have 
killed so many thousands of innocent people in Iraq just as many innocent 
people are now being killed and severe disruption is caused in London. 
Military interventions should be of last resort when everything else has 
been tried first. Blair singularly failed to do this and I believe that 
history will judge him as a seriously flawed leader.


The article from today's Guardian newspaper by Robin Cook and transmitted to 
Goanet by Gabe, sums up my position, and those of most among my wide circle 
of friends/contacts, on our current woes in London.

Cornel
- Original Message - 
From: Eddie Fernandes [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: goanet@goanet.org
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 11:54 PM
Subject: [Goanet]The London Blasts: A Goan Policeman speaks



From Irvin Fernandes

As requested, here are my views on what happened today Thurs 07 July 2005 
in Central London although I must say that I was not on duty at that time. 
My views are based on my experiences working as a Metropolitan Police 
Officer for over 17 years responsible for Community Policing on the 
streets of London as well as dealing with Major Incidents involving Mass 
Riots, Public Disorder and Terrorist Incidents.


At approximately 9am on Thursday 07 July 2005, Al Quada terrorist group 
struck at the heart of London causing at least four major explosions and 
completely paralysing Public Transport Services in Central London. One 
explosion took place on a London double-decker bus and the other three in 
London Underground train stations, in all 37 people was killed and 
approximately 150 injured some very severely losing limbs. Emergency 
Services were quick to respond and dealt very well with the aftermath. 
Central London has been sealed off tonight whilst Police Forensic teams 
gather evidence at the scenes of these blasts. Londoners cannot comprehend 
how these terrorists managed to evade detection by Anti-Terrorist Police 
and hit at the centre of our beautiful City. Detectives believe that some 
of the terrorist members may be British Citizens actually living in and 
around London. The Prime Minister Tony Blair and London's Mayor Ken 
Livingstone have vowed to capture and bring the people responsible for 
these outrageous atrocities to justice no matter what it takes.


Irvin FERNANDES
Metropolitan Police Sergeant
Marylebone Police Station
Central London.
.
NOTE: Irvin Fernandes recently returned from Amman, Jordan after a year 
training the Iraqi Police.  He was born in Nairobi, Kenya and  went to St. 
Teresa's Boys School in Eastleigh. In 1972 he left Nairobi with his family 
and travelled to Goa. There he completed his secondary education and 
taught in local schools. He arrived in the UK in 1984. He is married and 
lives in Croydon, Surrey.



From Eddie Fernandes:
I spent most of the day glued to the television set and the internet.  It 
was about 9.00 am that the news about the first blast came through.  The 
authorities were tight-lipped and did not reveal the full extent of the 
horror presumably to avoid spreading panic.  Even several hours later the 
death toll was quoted as being just 2.  It was not till some six hours 
later that the figure was revised to 33 and it is slowly growing.


The entire underground train service was suspended as well as the bus 
services in Central London.  The commuters were left stranded in offices 
though some chose to walk home or to the nearest point of available 
transport.  In the afternoon I drove into Central London in order to 
collect my wife from her office.  The atmosphere was electric.  The 
pavements were filled with surging crowds making their way homeward.  They 
looked grim - it was difficult to find anyone with a smile.  On the other 
hand they did not show malice towards those who looked Muslim.  We had 
many reports of the post 9/11 backlash in the US.  How long before it 
starts to affect us in the UK?  Will we have to display large crucifixes 
prominently on our bodies to escape their wrath?

[Goanet]Caste adverts

2005-07-08 Thread gilbertlaw

Fred's and other's caste-beef appears to be not for caste but disparity in 
society.  This issue of disparity is and will always be there. The communists 
tried to eradicated with little sucess after 70 years of existence.

Goans tired it (and perhaps continue to do so ) the susegad way, expecting the 
government to do it for them.

Perhaps disparity and barriers in society and among individuals is the 
single best engine for competition and hard-work and progress.Those who 
feel outside can roll up their sleeves and work and hustle to move inside.  
That is what most of the bhaile have done.  Yes, I agree there should be no 
rigid barriers like laws or religion.  

That is what journalists should work and write about ... role models and sucess 
stories rather than harping on the same old...same old ... biases.
Kind Regards, GL

Frederick Noronha (FN)  
A larger number of proportion (than earlier) now marries outside their
caste. This happens more among the younger generation, than earlier
generations -- who probably grew up in a Goa which was more hierarchical
and status conscious. But the number might still be small. 

Now, the 'filters' for choosing whom we associate with might have shifted to 
other 'barriers' like education, class, financial status, level of 
Westernisation, etc. These are biases too; but nothing so immutable and rigid 
as caste.

[Goanet]FEATURE: Pereiras, Gonsalves make it to Bollywood




  Goenkars !
   
  Just asking , do Goans in Mumbai have Goan
Associations ,  Goan Welfare organisations or Goan
clubs ? 

  If there are , I would appreciated if I could have
their email addresses.

   I have asked this question several times to Goan
Indviduals IN mUMBAI - but have had no replies. I hope
that this time some Goan in Mumbai will respond.



  

  Thanks 


  rene 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  

--- Frederick Noronha (FN) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 Pereiras, Gonsalves make it to Bollywood 
   
By: Ashutosh Shukla 
June 24, 2005 


 
Amrita Rao
 
 Bandra is well-known for housing some of
 Bollywoodâs most famous celebs,
 but itâs the aspiring young Catholics in the
 suburb who have caught the
 interest of director E Niwas.
 
 As the title of Niwasâ new film, My Name is
 Anthony Gonsalves, suggests,
 it is about two Catholics who live in Bandra. Niwas,
 who has directed
 films like Shool and Bardasht, is secretive about
 the storyline though.
 
 âItâs about an ordinary boy and his
 extraordinary dream; itâs an
 aspirational film whose protagonist is played by
 newcomer Nikhil,â is
 all the director is willing to reveal about the
 story of the film.




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RE: [Goanet]Al Qaeda in Europe.