RE: [Goanet]Re: Emigration/Sikh vs Goans
Afra, I used to feel a bit like you but soon realised one cannot generalise. There are a few individuals that behave like you mentioned but not everyone from East Africa is like that. Over the years I have learned to understand and respect that. Anyway, if some people prefer to say that they are Africans rather than Goans, it is their choice really. It is surely regrettable, but it is their choice. The fact is that majority of us feel like first class citizens only in our own motherland, which is Goa. Elsewhere, we are immigrants. We may be citizens of another country, we may be very well integrated in other cultures and other societies, our children might be born elsewhere, we may have partners from other cultures. But one thing will always be true: our origin is Goan and our culture is rich and different. Nobody will ever be able to change that. Having attended recently the SCOGO Festival in South West London (Croydon), I could see the difference from previous years. London now has a considerable amount of Goans recently arrived from Goa. In my opinion, that can only improve the quality and the truthfulness of our reach Goan culture and values in the United Kingdom. Best of luck for your future in London. Paulo Colaco Dias. > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of afra dias > Sent: 04 August 2005 03:24 > To: goanet@goanet.org > Subject: [Goanet]Re: Emigration/Sikh vs Goans > > Hi Fred, > > You know it very well but will not spell it out. > Here it is: GOANS ARE NOT AS COOPERATIVE AS THE SIKH COMMUNITY. > I went to a Goan FEAST party the other day and no one would talk to me > because > I did not come from their village. > They were mostly from East Africa migrated to UK, they look down on Goans > who > come directly from India, and call them butlers and waiters. > This sort of mantality does not help when it comes to developing our > selves > let alone community. > Afra. (London) > > Fred said, > "Interesting! Goa may not have the migratory numbers when compared to > other states like the Punjab, Gujarat, Andhra or Kerala. But people from > Goa > too have played pioneering roles (sometimes controversial, at other times > immensely positive) in places like East Africa, the Persian Gulf when > people > still lived in tents and recall drinking sandy water, Burma, and cities > like > Karachi. > > So why are Goans simply so invisible in history? Is it that their tale > has not been told? How do we change this situation? Can the Internet > help? Questions, questions
RE: [Goanet]Costas are Brahmins, and so Indians by origin?
Avelino, I cannot understand your reasoning. What does someone's caste has to do with someone's surname? Also, surely you did not think that all Costas descend from the first white Portuguese settler that travelled to India with Vasco da Gama, right? The first hindus who were baptised usually took the surname of the priests or celebrants that baptised them. Hence, you will have Costas who were Hindu Brahmins before being baptised. I may be wrong but I believe that majority of Goan Costas are Goans by origin and do not have Portuguese blood in them. To be honest, I have not come across any Goan Costas who can tell they descend from a Portuguese Costa. In fact the families that are known as "descendentes" (descend from the Portuguese) in Goa are not many. From the top of my head I can think of these: Lobato-Faria, Fragoso, Aquino, Camelo, Correa-Mendes. There are some more though. These can tell for sure they descend from the Portuguese and are usually known as "descendentes" (in Portuguese). Other families might also descend from the Portuguese but it becomes difficult to trace unless you manage to track the whole family tree until the first baptised. Best regards Paulo Colaco Dias. PS: Please do not involve me in any caste related discussion. I am not interested. > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of D'Souza, Avelino > Sent: 04 August 2005 05:55 > To: goanet@goanet.org > Subject: [Goanet]Costas are Brahmins, and so Indians by origin? > > The story that has been doing the rounds for centuries now is that the > first Costa settler in India had sailed to the subcontinent in the > company of Vasco da Gama. > But there is also information that the Costas are Brahmins, and so > Indians by origin. > We have no documentary evidence in support of either statement; we only > know that, at the close of the sixteenth century, the Costa family lived > in the fortress of Rachol and several of its members held posts that > were the preserve of blue-blooded Brahmins only. > How can one reconcile these two theories? > > More at, > > http://www.28costavin.com/fam%20note%201.htm > > > > Avelino > Bastora/Kuwait >
RE: [Goanet]Fitting in: Colonial official to Anthropology
stalled 5 or 6 years ago. And large villages like Benaulim for example did not have a proper water infrastructure even in the late 1980s, Where most houses still had to draw water from the well everyday (more than 20 years after the end of Portuguese rule). Gabriel is right. Goans enjoyed full citizenship rights since mid XVIII century which did not happen to the other territories in Africa, for example. This was only interrupted with the Salazar's shameful colonial act (between 1930s up to 1951 - Hence the intervention of Prof. Froilano de Mello demanding Salazar to re-instate full citizenship rights to Goans - Does this answer Gilbert's question). Also, it is important to note that Goa and the other territories in Portuguese India constituted from the very beginning a state of Portugal (Estado Portugues da India) and, therefore, enjoyed a better status than the other colonies. Goans were always considered of great intellect by the Portuguese and many of them studied and achieved great deeds in Portugal and in the world and were sent for high administration jobs not only in Portugal but in Portuguese provinces (Mozambique being a specific example of very large Goan administration and presence), including in Goa itself where they dominated the Civil Administration and Judicial System, especially towards the end of Portuguese rule. Gilbert refers to the need of Goans to migrate pre-1961 because there was no future for them in Goa even though native Goans were in power in the Civil Administration of Goa. Maybe he ignores the fact that the native Portuguese themselves from mainland Portugal are one of the most migrant people in the world, having historically migrated in very large numbers outside Portugal. Also, Salazar's true moral intention of protecting Goans and their full Portuguese citizenship rights in 1961 (mentioned above) was later confirmed by governmental decree in 1975 after a free Portugal officially recognised the annexation of Portuguese India by the Indian Union. In a unique case worldwide, Goans were indeed given the option to retain their full Portuguese citizenship rights ad eternum (indefinitely) (Decreto-Lei n. 308-A/1975, 24th June - "Lei da Nacionalidade Portuguesa" - Diário do Governo I Série - Número 143 Terça Feira 24 de Junho de 1975). The same option was not given to anyone else from the other Portuguese overseas provinces. Thousands of Goans have taken advantage of this and are today full Portuguese citizens. Many more are still exercising their right and re-acquiring full Portuguese citizenship - and migrating outside India. The young generation is thankful to Portugal for this and their appreciation is visible even at the level of Goan Konkani Teatro (ref: item "Obrigado Portugal" - Jose Rod, Antonette Mendes, Nelson Jr and company from the Konkani Musical Show "Goencho Avaz", recently presented in the UK, Canada and Germany) So, in the same terms used by Gilbert, does this mean that the large numbers of Goans migrating today are not happy with the government of India? How many Indians from all over India have migrated to the west? Gilbert says "80% of young Goan men had to leave Goa for post-graduate education and jobs until 1960". Does this mean that 80% of Goan male population left Goa? Does that really make any sense? I agree that several episodes of Portuguese rule in India were dark and evil, especially in the earlier centuries. However, the Portuguese also contributed with several benefits to our people and to our culture, which believe it or not, will not easily dilute. The capacity to absorb, understand the pos and cons and keep an open mind about everything is, unfortunately, a skill that most of us do not have. Some of us in this forum will always refuse to review our conceptions (or shall I say misconceptions?) or attempt to learn with other people's contributions. For those, counter arguments are useless and will reach nowhere. Those of us who blatantly fail to even attempt to see reason do not deserve to see it at all. Having returned to this forum after a period of absence, I see that nothing much changed. It is about time we that all of us start concentrating in exploring ways to improve the future of Goa, Goan culture, Goan identity and Goan life while it still exists, rather than dwell in a past that, over and over again, manages to divide us. So, lets get together and see what we can do for the future of Goa, today a part of India but with an intrinsic own culture that proudly defines us all in the world, wherever we are. We lack more activities like the Goan World Day that should not only unite us all culturally but also contribute to the welfare of Goa and Goans back home. Best regards Paulo Colaco Dias. *** >Gilbert Lawrence wrote: 18 August 2005 20:05 > >My reading of Newman's writings is: There are too much of "opinions" and >stories (kan
RE: [Goanet] Re: Wrong Claim for true ...but which claim ? - a responseto Lambert
Well said Jose and Jorge. Unfortunately, many of us Goans often claim to represent the whole community and that can never be easily achieved. We then fall into ridicule. No one can say for sure that his/her opinion represents the opinion of a larger group unless there is a specific mandate for it. The truth is that we are a divided lot! We have great difficulty in accepting other people's ideas, especially if they come from our own Goan people. The sooner we all understand these facts the faster we can start correcting ourselves and achieving mutual respect through a correct and argument based healthy discussion. Lambert Mascarenhas is well out of line on that. I think most of us have grown up since 1961. But a few of us and, surprisingly enough, some of the older generation are holding on to that period. Best regards Paulo Colaco Dias. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jorge/Livia de Abreu Noronha Sent: 26 April 2006 06:50 To: goanet@goanet.org Subject: [Goanet] Re: Wrong Claim for true ...but which claim ? - a responseto Lambert Well said, Dr. Josi Colago. To your comments I would like to add the following: -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.6/324 - Release Date: 25/04/2006 _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] Voting rights for NRI Goans
Hi Elisabeth, The term NRI might be sometimes informally used to represent non-Indian nationals, but everyone knows that in order to be a true NRI one needs to be an Indian National. Please check with the Indian authorities. I remember I have checked this last year and it was very clear to me that you need to be an Indian National to be a true NRI. I accept that the term is sometimes used in the generalised way to include all PIOs but that is indeed incorrect. The right of vote in India is only given to Indian Citizens. Not even the newly created Overseas Citizens of India have the right to vote. I do not consider myself a NRI. At the most, I am a PIO. I cannot see why the real NRIs (i.e. those who are Indian Citizens residing outside India) should not have the right to vote. This happens with many other democratic countries where their citizens can vote abroad through their countries' diplomatic representations. Best regards, Paulo Colaco Dias. > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Elisabeth Carvalho > Sent: 28 April 2006 17:28 > To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! > Subject: RE: [Goanet] Voting rights for NRI Goans > > The term now encompasses all Indians residing outside > of India, including Indians who have acquired > citizenship of other countries and second-generation > PIOs. Hence, we are primarily taking about Indians in > the US, Canada, Uk, Australia, and so forth. > > Here is a definition from Wikipedia: > "A non-resident Indian (NRI) is an Indian citizen who > has migrated to another country. Other terms with the > same meaning are (somewhat self-deprecating in > context) desis, overseas Indian and expatriate Indian. > For tax and other official purpose the government of > India considers any Indian national away from India > for more than 180 days in a year an NRI. In common > usage, this often includes Indian born individuals who > have taken the citizenship of other countries." > > To me democracy is a vehicle of representation. If I > was a Goan residing in Goa, I certainly would not want > some second-generation expat who shows no signs of > interest in the native country, having the right to > vote. Will this right to vote, be pegged to any sort > of commitment? Will it require some amount of > residency or financial investment? If not, the right > to vote will eventually end up being a vote for > outdated loyalties and/or issues viewed through the > prism of an expat's viewpoint, which may not be > relevant to Goa/India's realities. > > Elisabeth _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] Voting rights for NRI Goans
Mario might want to check again with the Indian authorities. He and Elizabeth might think they are NRIs but in reality they are not. Those who are not Indian Citizens cannot be NRIs. At the most they are PIOs. Nasci Caldeira already posted an excellent contribution that explains this in detail so I do not have anything else to add. Well done Nasci. Best regards Paulo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mario Goveia Sent: 28 April 2006 20:42 To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! Subject: RE: [Goanet] Voting rights for NRI Goans Elisabeth is right. I am a US citizen but am considered an NRI in India. > --- Elisabeth Carvalho <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > However, a minor correction on the term NRI. > > The term now encompasses all Indians residing > outside of India, including Indians who have > acquired citizenship of other countries and second- > generation PIOs. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org) -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.6/324 - Release Date: 25/04/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.6/324 - Release Date: 25/04/2006 _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] Voting rights for NRI Goans
Sorry Elisabeth, I was under the impression you were not an Indian Citizen. If you are, then there is no doubt you are an NRI. Mario, however, is not (he mentioned he is an US citizen). This is my last post on this subject. I think we are now quite clear. Best wishes Paulo. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Elisabeth Carvalho Sent: 30 April 2006 05:27 To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! Subject: RE: [Goanet] Voting rights for NRI Goans Dear Paulo, I am sorry to blow a hole in your theory but I have infact always been and still am an NRI in the truest sense of the word. I may reside in the USA but I am an Indian citizen who pays my taxes every year and will return to India in the near future. There has never been any question about my voting rights. I have them, I have always had them and in all probability will enjoy them well into my dotage. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.6/324 - Release Date: 25/04/2006 _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
[Goanet] OK, fine. You are an NRI!
This is a pointless discussion. One would have thought that people would always try to understand the concept rather than what is expressed in certain definitions that are confusing and far from "official". Frankly, if POIs (like Mario) consider themselves NRIs even though they are not Indian Citizens, so be it. Fine, you are an NRI Mario. Who am I to say the contrary? Take the bicycle and be happy. Paulo. > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Mario Goveia > Sent: 30 April 2006 16:45 > To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! > Subject: Re: [Goanet] RE: NRI voting rights > > Mario says, > > > The term NRI includes foreign citizens of Indian > origin. It is based on one's "origin", not one's > citizenship. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] A Cross on Panji River bank: Some one please help withthis Portuguese-English Translation
Hi Joe, here is my contribution to the best of my knowledge. " `A MEMORIA DAS INFELIZES 81 VICTIMAS DO SINISTRO DA LANCHA "GOA" OCCORRIDO A 3-12-1901. DEDICA ESTE SINGELO PADRAO A COLONIA GOEZA DE ADEN PEDINDO A TODOS OS QUE POR AQUI PASSAREM". Please note the following: 1. "Lancha" can be translated as a motor boat. 2. "Singelo" means simple, sincere, modest. 3. "Padrao" means monument - in this case, the ideal translation is an imprint on stone (very common on Portuguese colonies) which can be also translated in this case to a tribute, homage, a mark of respect, etc. 4. "Colonia Goeza de Aden" means the Goan Community from Aden, i.e., Goans who had migrated to Aden. 5. It does not look like the sentence is terminated. Can it be that the rest of the imprint got deteriorated or maybe has fallen down and you can no longer see? It would make much more sense if it terminated with "que rezem pelas suas almas.", which means "to pray for their souls". So, my translation is as follows: *** In remembrance of the unfortunate 81 victims of the accident with the motor boat "GOA" occurred on the 3-12-1901. The Goan Community of Aden dedicates this modest tribute requesting all who pass here (to pray for their souls). -> this bit is not actually there but possible has fallen down or got deteriorated. *** Hope this was helpful, Best wishes Paulo Colaco Dias > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Subject: Re: [Goanet] A Cross on Panji River bank: Some one please help > withthis Portuguese-English Translation > _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] Voting rights for NRI Goans
This reminds me of a story of a Goan chap I met many years ago here in London. He had just arrived in London and was looking at the phone directory (book) and came across several pages of Fernandes, Souza, Silva, etc. At first I had not realised what he was doing with the phone directory but then he made the following remark: -"There are so many Goans in London!!" I was stunned at his conclusion. He had no idea that those are all Portuguese names and that people from all over the world have them, including Brazilians, Sri-Lankans, East-Timoreses, East-Indians, Africans, Macaenses, etc. Best, Paulo. > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of cornel > Sent: 05 May 2006 08:48 > To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! > Subject: Re: [Goanet] Voting rights for NRI Goans > > Jorge > Thank you for demolishing the myth Mario created regarding his surname > contributing to the name of a village in Portugal. Any Johnny- come-lately > would know that Portuguese sourced Goan surnames were a consequence of > Portuguese sourced activity, including naming, in Goa, and not the other > way > round! > Cornel _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] European Union To Honour Goan Priest With CommemorativePost Card
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- I wonder if Bosco de Sousa Eremita is in this forum. If he is not and if someone knows him, please forward this email to him. This is an excellent example of how a Goan news item can get easily distorted. It all seems to have started with a poorly written article from Paul Fernandes (GT) ( http://www.goacom.com/joel/news/2006/may/11may06.htm ) which claimed that the - quote - > "World famous hypnotist, priest and revolutionary, Abbe Faria > will be the first Goan to be honoured by a member of the European > Union with a commemorative postcard on the occasion of his 250th birth > anniversary on May 31, 2006. This rare distinction is only the second > of its type accorded to any Goan after Portugal commemorated Blessed > Joseph Vaz with a postal stamp on the occasion of his 300th birth > anniversary." - end of quote - Problems with the above quote: 1. Honoured by a member of the European Union? Which one of the 25? 2. Why was the name of the member omitted? Isn't the name of that European country important?? 3. Was the name of the country unconsciously omitted or was it omitted on purpose? Now another article from Bosco de Sousa Eremita claims that Abbe Faria is going to be honoured by the European Union So, from one "Member of the European Union" (which one) it has now become the whole of the European Union!!! This is truly amazing and quite amusing too. I wonder if these writers really know what the European Union is or do they think that the European Union is the equivalent of the United States of Europe? Well, maybe in the future but not quite yet! The name of the country which is honouring Abade Faria is extremely important. I think most people know which country it is but somehow, the name as been omitted (WHY AM I NOT AT ALL SURPRISED WITH THIS OMMISSION??) Best regards, Paulo Colaco Dias > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Goanet News > Sent: 13 May 2006 09:01 > To: goanet@goanet.org > Subject: [Goanet] European Union To Honour Goan Priest With > CommemorativePost Card > > European Union To Honour Goan Priest With Commemorative Post Card > By Bosco de Sousa Eremita > > PANAJI, Goa (SAR NEWS) -- The European Union is honouring a pioneering > Goan Catholic priest scientist on the occasion of his 250 birth > anniversary with a commemorative post card scheduled to be issued on 31 > May, according to media reports here. > _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] Re: European Union To Honour Goan Priest WithCommemorativePost Card
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- Jorge, thanks for confirming the name of the country as Portugal. The fact remains that some of our Goans still refuse to accept that good things can come from Portugal too. If one Goan publicly writes a good thing about Portugal, 20 other people will criticise him/her regardless of what he/she has written is true or not. I have come across several curriculum vitae from some Goans who have asked me for advice on how to get a job here in the UK. Most of these Goans have recently come from Goa as Portuguese citizens. Usually, you write your citizenship in a cv/resume, right? Well, instead of writing "Portuguese Citizen", these Goans often write "European Citizen". It is almost like they want to hide their relation to Portugal - their own country of citizenship! They are not aware of how ridiculous this situation is at the eyes of a potential employer. Of course I do not save any words of criticism to these shameful Goans! They are nothing else but opportunists. Hopefully, employers pick up on these things and I know many do. A person who hides his/her own citizenship cannot be trusted. I would immediately bin a cv of a person who writes "European Citizen" as citizenship. One has to be proud of the citizenship one holds regardless of one's origin. Employers know extremely well which countries are in Europe and which are part of the European Union. If one writes "European Citizen" instead of writing his country of citizenship, that can only mean he/she is hiding something. And a cv/resume needs to be as clear as possible. Best regards Paulo Colaco Dias London UK. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jorge/Livia de Abreu Noronha Sent: 14 May 2006 03:57 To: goanet@goanet.org Subject: [Goanet] Re: European Union To Honour Goan Priest WithCommemorativePost Card 1. What is the reason why anybody should feel shy to make publicly known on this forum that the commemorative postcard to honour Abbe Faria is going to be issued by Portugal (instead of attributing this gesture to the "European Union")? There is not going to be a "European" postcard but a "Portuguese" postcard. Dom Martin approached the postal administrations of three countries directly associated with the Abbe: of Portugal, of France and of India. The Portuguese Postal Administration was the only one, of the three, to respond favourably, even though Dom's approach was made after the 2006 programme of postal issues had already been approved for execution. The issue of the Abbe Faria commemorative postcard on the 31st of this month has therefore to be taken as being made extra-programme and as a special gesture to honour the great scientist who, during his lifetime, brought glory not only to France where he developed and practiced his theory on hypnotism but also to Portugal, the country of which he was a citizen, and to his native land of Goa. - Dom is, I understand, hopeful that the Indian and French Postal Administrations will give due consideration to his request (supported by a number of signatures) in 2007. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/338 - Release Date: 12/05/2006 _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] Re: European Union To Honour Goan PriestWithCommemorativePost Card
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- Hi Bosco, Portugal has been a member of the European Union for 20 years now and everyone in the European Union has the same rights and privileges throughout the European Union, ie, the right to live and work anywhere in the 25 countries of the EU. The UK has a culture of welcoming workers from the EU. Of course there are the occasional negative connotations associated with other European countries including Portugal. There is no doubt about it. But do you think that by writing European Citizen they can get away with it? You cannot hide who you are. You cannot pretend you are British. Sooner or later the employer will know so what is the point of writing European Citizen? The case of the Portuguese emigrants in the UK is completely different from the case of the same in Canada. Here, any citizen from an EU member country does not require a work permit and there are absolutely no restrictions of stay. They can stay forever and have exactly the same rights and privileges of those who are British citizens (except the right of vote for the UK government). I feel that the case of the illegal Portuguese emigrants in Canada received an extra attention somehow because of the Portuguese media that made a huge issue of it. For many days, those cases made the headlines in Portugal. They would not talk of anything else in Portugal. Best Paulo. > > > Usually, you write your citizenship in a cv/resume, right? Well, instead > > of writing "Portuguese Citizen", these Goans often write "European > > Citizen". > > RESPONSE: Paulo, while job-hunting in the UK, are there any negative > connotations associated if one states one is of Portuguese citizenship? Is > it > possible these people are hiding the fact that they are not of British > citizenship rather than that they are Portuguese citizens? > > Recently, there were a few high-profile deportation cases of illegal > residents > of Portuguese citizenship from Toronto. Although there are deportations on > a > weekly basis, I don't know why and how the Portuguese received the extra > attention. There is an ongoing case of a family of Costa Rican origin that > has > struck a raw cord among many citizens. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] Re: European Union - citizenship et al
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- My response in between your sentences. > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of jose colaco > Sent: 15 May 2006 15:31 > To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! > Subject: [Goanet] Re: European Union - citizenship et al > > Having said that, I wonder if what you have written above (and I have > capped) > is entirely accurate. > > It is true that as long as an EU citizen has a passport or an ID card, he > cannot be > denied entry into another EU country - subject to security et al clauses > > AND that he/she will NOT be required to possess a visa. > > But is it true that he/she "CAN STAY FOREVER and have exactly THE SAME > RIGHTS > and privileges of those who are British citizens (except the right of vote > for the UK > government) " ? > Yes, it is. At least for the first 15 countries (Portugal included in the first 12). It is called the Treaty of Rome. Not only those citizens can stay forever and have the same rights and privileges of those who are British citizens but also their spouses and dependents have also the same rights and privileges (except the right of vote). Their rights will only be removed if the country withdraws from the European Union (UK has an Independence Party which is campaigning for the withdrawal of the UK from the EU). > There is something in the EU "Free Movement of Workers" which might be > worth > revisiting.Art 39 EC > > Additionally, there still might be a time lag for the Free Movement of > workers to come into > effect in all 25 EU countries I believe that at this moment EU15 have > preferential rights > That is true but the UK is so accommodating and so welcoming that applies the same rules even for the new 10 members that recently joined (from Eastern Europe). Other countries (e.g. France, Germany) are indeed imposing some working restrictions to the 10 new members, but not the UK. Best wishes Paulo Colaco Dias _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] European Union To Honour Goan Priest with CommemorativePostcard
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- Dom, I join others in thanking you for all your efforts in getting this great Goan acknowledged and honoured on the occasion of his 250th birth anniversary. But, quite frankly and with respect, I would like to ask you if you find normal for Goan journalists to hide which European Country is issuing the postcard. Paul Fernandes refers to "An European Nation" or "One of the European Nation". Bosco Eremita refers to the Whole of the "European Union"! http://www.abbefaria.com/Abbe%20Faria%20Anniversary%20-%20Govt%20Soozes.htm http://goanet.org/post.php?name=News&list=goanet&info=2006-May/date&post_id= 042463 So, pray tell us if you find this normal. One European Country (we now know it is Portugal) is issuing the postcard but who takes the credit is Europe!! Is this normal according to you? Best wishes Paulo Colaco Dias. > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 15 May 2006 17:12 > To: goanet@goanet.org > Subject: [Goanet] European Union To Honour Goan Priest with > CommemorativePostcard > > In deference to the virtue of patience, it seemed the better part of valor > to allow the issuing country to have the glory of making the official > upcoming announcement of the Abbe Faria commemorative postcard and stamp > facsimile. If those who were privy to some of the details take it upon > themselves to act as spokespersons, that's their call. And if some others > want to indulge in second-guessing or damning insinuations, that's their > canon or canonry. > > As for Paul Fernandes' report in the Gomantak Times, "Abbe Faria > Anniversary: Govt. Snoozes" > (http://www.abbefaria.com/Abbe%20Faria%20Anniversary%20- > %20Govt%20Soozes.htm), the salient part of his reporting was eschewed > while dissecting his piece for journalistic content and merit. In his > report, Paul Fernandes awakened us about something we had no inkling about > -- the Goa Government had absolutely nothing planned for Abbe Faria's > 250th Birth anniversary! > Dom Martin _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] Re: European Union - citizenship et al
Cornel, I am extremely surprised to read this from you. I always thought you would know better than me! I cannot believe you are not aware of this. If you being a university professor are not aware of this, imagine the common Goan with Portuguese citizenship that lands in these shores directly from Goa! Either you did not understand the problem your relation was facing or your relation was so confused that he was not aware of his own rights (not uncommon amongst Goans... - the reality is that they do not know their own rights... This EU thing is so good to be true that sometimes Goans struggle to understand their own rights and suffer abuse from their employers and from the authorities. There is lack of information and lack of people to provide advice. I have been advising lots of Goans in the UK and lots have learned many things from me). It is possible that your relation was using his Indian passport (instead of the Portuguese). But even then, because he was married to a French citizen, he could have stayed here provided that she was exercising her rights under the Treaty of Rome, ie, living and working in the UK as a French citizen. So, either he did not understand his rights or you did not understand what he meant. I know you still do not believe me, so please check this: http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/working_in_the_uk/en/homepage/your_status/e uropean_citizens.html Once again, I will clarify: Citizens from the first 15 EU countries do not require work permit to work in any EU country. All they need is an ID Card or a passport from their EU member country to start working. Citizens from the 8 of the last 10 EU countries (these are the 10 countries that joined the EU about two years ago from Eastern Europe with exception of Cyprus and Malta) may require work permit due to temporary restrictions imposed by some of the first 15 countries. Portugal joined 20 years ago and there are no restrictions whatsoever for Portuguese citizens to exercise their rights anywhere in the 25 countries of the EU under the Treaty of Rome. In essence, citizens from a member state have the following rights: a. Move freely throughout the EU b. Live, study, work and do business in other Member States c. Vote and stand as a candidate in European elections in the Member State in which he/she is living d. Vote and stand as a candidate in local elections in the Member State in which he/she is living e. Petition the European Parliament if his/her rights as citizens are infringed f. Complain to the EU Ombudsman if he/she has a grievance against an EU institution or body g. Request assistance from the embassy of any EU Member State if he/she gets into difficulty abroad the European Union h. Write to the EU in any language of the EU, and get a response in that language i. Equal treatment, ie, Citizens from EU Member states must not be discriminated against on grounds of nationality The last point says it all really! There cannot be discrimination on grounds of nationality. There is, however, a temporary 7 years restriction on 8 of the 10 new EU members that joined in May 2004 (these are: Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Slovakia and Slovenia), but this restriction has never been enforced by the UK, Ireland and Sweden and has Fred posted recently, the same restriction has been lifted by Portugal, Spain and Finland ( http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=33065 ) I challenge you to verify this for yourself and then tell us what you found. A complete reference on this subject can be found here: http://europa.eu.int/youreurope/nav/en/citizens/guides/yourrights/index.html Best regards Paulo Colaco Dias. > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of cornel > Sent: 15 May 2006 22:39 > To: goanet@goanet.org > Subject: [Goanet] Re: European Union - citizenship et al > > Paulo > I am not sure that you are totally right that, say someone from Portugal > or > any EU member has as much right as a UK citizen regarding work etc > notwithstanding that work is currently plentiful here. I only say this > because very recently, a distant Goan Portuguese national relation of > mine, > (by marriage), was required to return to France when he could obtain work > here, and desperately wanted to remain here. His English was excellent but > he was forced to seek work in France (being married to a French national) > and to struggle with French. I think a work permit is still a requirement > and that Jose is right. > Cornel _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] Re: European Union To Honour Goan Priest withCommemorativePostcard
Dom, Hi. Thanks for explaining this. It makes much more sense now. I now understand that Paul Fernandes included the following in his article dated 11 May 2006 published on Gomantak Times (web link not available): "However, the name of the European country cannot be disclosed for reasons of protocol, at this stage." However, he did not include that sentence on his article dated 12 May 2006: http://www.abbefaria.com/Abbe%20Faria%20Anniversary%20-%20Govt%20Soozes.htm Consequently, other journalists changed the whole thing and made it an "European Union" commemoration. Anyway, it is explained now. Thanks for that. Best wishes Paulo Colaco Dias. > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 17 May 2006 04:55 > To: goanet@goanet.org > Subject: [Goanet] Re: European Union To Honour Goan Priest > withCommemorativePostcard > > Paulo, I am beginning to see where this thread developed a kink and then > went > awry with multiple knots. > > When Paul Fernandes contacted me to follow up on the progress of the stamp > petition, I informed him that pending an official announcement by the > country > issuing the commemorative stamp, I would have to refer the country as a > member > of the European Union. I did, however, indicate to him that once an > official > announcement is made, I would provide him with absolute details. > > Accordingly, Paul Fernandes picked on the term 'member of the European > Union', > and qualified the reference with this line: "However, the name of the > European > country cannot be disclosed for reasons of protocol, at this stage." > _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] Port Wine.
Gabe, I have no idea if white port was available in Goa before 1961. My guess is yes, but that is only a guess. Lots of other red and white wines were available. About Vinicola "Port" (Goan), I am sorry to say but it is an insult to even call it Port wine. It is far from it and it cannot be called Port just like the Indian Champagne cannot be called Champagne (Did they stop calling it champagne already or not?). The Goan "Port"'s alcohol and sugar content is completely different. The Goan version has less alcohol and much more sugar content. It is horrible. Goans often dink it as table wine when Port has never been table wine. Few years ago, India made a big noise because America started producing Basmati rice. But they ignored the fact that India was also illegally using registered brands like Port, Champagne, Cherry, etc. In fact, not only India but also Australia, South Africa and US are illegally producing Port Wine but they will never be able to export it to the European Union since those countries are banned from exporting illegal brands to the EU. Having said that, I have good hopes that India will improve its production of red and white wines. In Bombay, you can get access to several Indian brands of white and red and they are doing well. Consumption is on the increase and I am sure that quality too. If they want to get serious, they should stop selling cheap imitations that can cause damage to the real brands. Paulo. > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Gabe Menezes > Sent: 21 May 2006 22:26 > To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! > Subject: [Goanet] Port Wine. > > Most, if not all Goenkars, know about Port Wine, as a Ruby Red drink? > > Well I have news for you - there is a White Port which is chilled and > absolutely divine. Some excellent White Ports cost an arm and a leg. > Perhaps some of the Lusophiles on this list could inform us, whether > White Port Wine was available in Goa! > > Port Wine was freely available in Goa, greatly appreciated, for its > bouquet, body and flavour, in Goa when there Portuguese were around. > > Vincola, is a poor substitute! More sugar than body. > > Let's get back on track, was there White Port available in Goa during > the Portuguese time? _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] VICE PRIME MINISTER COSTA
Caro Henrique, Of course Nelly Furtado has nothing to do with Goa but I am afraid you are wrong about Antonio Costa. Antonio Costa (number 2 of the current Portuguese Government) is indeed the son of Orlando da Costa, famous Goan writer born in Lourenco Marques but of 100% Goan origin. His family is still in Goa. I am not sure from where Antonio Costa's mother is (possibly Cabo Verde) but his father Orlando da Costa was definitely a Goan (passed away few months back) and a famous Portuguese writer. I take the liberty of posting some references that I am sure you will appreciate: http://www.supergoa.com/pt/read/news_cronica.asp?c_news=527 (Portuguese) http://www.supergoa.com/pt/read/news_noticia.asp?c_news=524 (Portuguese) http://www.goanet.org/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=391 (English) http://lportuguesa.malha.net/content/view/66/1/ (Portuguese) Com os melhores cumprimentos, Paulo Colaco Dias. > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Henrique Salles da Fonseca > Sent: 24 May 2006 09:00 > To: goanet@goanet.org > Subject: [Goanet] VICE PRIME MINISTER COSTA > > Mr. Nunes Besugão: > > Minister António Costa was born in Portugal with cape verde's parents. > As Nelly Furtado, he has nothing to see with Goa. > > Regards, > > Henrique Salles da Fonseca - Lisbon _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] DABOLIM Only; Mopa N/A
Why don't we organise a petition? A petition with proper documents to demonstrate that Dabolim had always been a civilian airport and should remain a civilian airport, with signatures from Goans all over the world and other people as well will be a valid instrument in convincing the navy to leave Dabolim. What do you think? I think there are enough volunteers for this cause who have written extensively with very solid arguments. All we need is to start the petition. Best Paulo. > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Nasci Caldeira > Sent: 06 September 2005 15:27 > To: goanet@goanet.org > Subject: Re: [Goanet] DABOLIM Only; Mopa N/A > > Yes, we can and should give recognition to Mathany Saldanha, to objecting > to > the very idea of a second airport at Mopa! So also did Francisco Sardinha > object to then; however none were able to divert or stop this 'madness', > from going places! Then Sardinha sold out Goa to the BJP wallahs; and > Mathany by tagging along to the BJP, has soiled his hands! Even now, > Mathany > for some reason, does not repent or apologise for flirting with Parrikar.
RE: [Goanet] IS GOA LIBERATABLE FURTHER?
A. Veronica, I couldn't agree with you more. Thanks for taking the time for writing your thoughts which match mine 100%. An excellent and very well written piece. I just have one thing to add in response to your question: Q: "IS GOA LIBERATABLE FURTHER?" A: Yes in the sense that it is about time Goans stop living in the past and start thinking about the future. Like yourself, I feel we waste too much time discussing things of the past. It is about time we start concentrating on the future and what we can all do for Goa. Strongly investing in Goa is one thing we can do (and many of us are doing). Another one is to get involved with issues that affect us all like the Dabolim Airport issue which is fundamental for the future of Goa because it affects tourism and development in Goa. Best, Paulo. > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of A. Veronica Fernandes > Sent: 07 September 2005 04:27 > To: goanet@goanet.org > Subject: [Goanet] IS GOA LIBERATABLE FURTHER? > > IS GOA LIBERATABLE FURTHER? > > That Goa had to be liberated from the Portuguese colonialism was a must > because nobody wants to be colonized by any other power. But that Bharat > had to liberate Goa forcibly and in view of many recolonise Goa was a > different matter. If Bharat under Nehru had not to interfere militarily > in > Goa in 1961 December, Heaven would not fall. If it was not for the > militarily force used to annex Goa in the name of liberation by the Nehru > Government of Bharat, Goa would get its own dose of independence in > another > 10 - 14 years when all other Portuguese colonies in Africa got after the > death of Salazar in Portugal and after the collapse of Marcelo Caetano > rule > there. > > In this situation some Goans permanently settled in the West holding > Portuguese, American, Canadian, British and other Passports are clamouring > and campaigning for separate Goa independent of Bharat, they even prefer > Portugal back to Goa without knowing that Portugal is no more interested > in > Goa. These Goans are simply barking from abroad thru cyber fora. These > Goans are like worms, they will do nothing for Goa expect bark and bark > from > Western lands. They say they have great love for Goa but in reality they > deslike Goa for this reason they are not even protecting their ancestral > lands, properties and houses. Liberating Goa further from Indian > domination > is a foolish propositon. If any one wants to protect and save Goa from > further disaster he must campaign hard in Goan diaspora and tell them to > save their ancestral properties and houses, purchase Goan lands in greater > quantity otherwise there is no point in barking from outside Goa. >But meantime, let us save Goan lands > and > properties by not parting them to others. Expatriate Goans must invest in > Goan lands and save Goa from further deGoanisation. > > A. Veronica Fernandes, > Kuwait.
RE: [Goanet] IS GOA LIBERATABLE FURTHER?
Yes, Helga, well spotted. However, I think you understood the meaning well, didn't you? On another note, if you do a google search of the word "liberatable", you will find hundreds of pages... Regards Paulo. > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Helga do Rosario Gomes > Sent: 07 September 2005 23:01 > To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! > Subject: Re: [Goanet] IS GOA LIBERATABLE FURTHER? > > But what does 'libertable' mean Paulo? I could not find it in any of my > regular dictionaries. > --Helga >
RE: [Goanet] Re:Re: IS GOA LIBERATABLE FURTHER?
Just like Santosh, I also feel that some readers did not pay much attention to what A. Veronica really wrote. It is regrettable that rather than trying to understand the message, they seem to have got stuck trying to find a meaning for a word which is perfectly understandable but apparently does not exist. I wonder if that happens always or is it only when it is convenient? Whilst I believe Helga's question was innocent, I can't sense the same about RKN's contribution. Unfortunately, that's how some of us choose to discuss. For such contributions, the best response is perhaps silence. Paulo. >-Original Message- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >Behalf Of Radhakrishnan Nair >Sent: 08 September 2005 12:24 >To: goanet@goanet.org >Subject: [Goanet] Re:Re: IS GOA LIBERATABLE FURTHER? > >(Helga do Rosario asks: But what does 'libertable' mean Paulo? I could not >find it in any of my >regular dictionaries.) > >Exactly my question, Helga! Erudite Paulo and waffling Veronica do make >strange bedfellows, but they have found common ground in making Goa >'liberatable' to the extent that Paulo concurs with Veronica's waffling 110 >per cent! > >Maybe they are planning to revive organic farming in Goa by reclaiming the >Dabolim airfield from the navy and making it irrigatable. Such a stupendous >task calls for a grandiose word to describe their valiant fight and they >seem to have decided to call it 'liberatable' instead of the mundane >'irrigatable'. > >Am I right, Paulo? > > >-- RKN > >P.S: Wonder whether Cecil had a hand in coining this new word. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.19/92 - Release Date: 07/09/2005
RE: [Goanet] IS INDIA SPLITABLE?
I think you probably mean grammar, no? :) >-Original Message- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >Behalf Of halur rasho >Sent: 14 September 2005 03:25 >To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! >Subject: Re: [Goanet] IS INDIA SPLITABLE? > >People wishng India to be splitted, should learn >grammer first :) -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.23/99 - Release Date: 12/09/2005
RE: [Goanet] Old Currencies & Banking in Goa in the 1950's & 1960’s – Bank of Baroda, Anjuna!
Dear Domnic, I enjoyed reading your article very much, especially the bit about the currency and the photos with the notes and coins. Excellent. Well done. However, I am afraid you got the bit about the Gold deposited in the BNU mixed up. Domnic wrote: >“Goans are very fond of gold. As such, even in the olden days they >owned a lot of gold, especially the Basurkar’s wives! There were some people >who deposited their gold with the ‘Banco Nacional Ultramarino’ just to find >out that all of it was shifted to Portugal at the time of Goa’s liberation, >and it took them some three plus decades to send it back to Goa. In the >meantime, many depositors passed away.” I have the following questions for you: 1. When was most of the gold deposited in the BNU? (Possible replies: one specific year, in the eve of one specific event – please mention the event, etc.) 2. What was the main reason for all the sudden an exponential increase of Gold deposits with the BNU, i.e., why was the gold deposited there? What were people afraid of? 3. Did you or your family deposited any gold in the BNU? 4. Do you personally know anyone who has deposited gold in the BNU? 5. Do you know anyone who attempted to recover the Gold just after it was shifted to Portugal? 6. Do you really think that the gold was made available only 3 decades after? 7. Are you sure it wasn’t available before by contacting the BNU in Portugal? (i.e., by personally visiting BNU in Portugal or by power of attorney given to someone in Portugal to collect the gold). 8. If Goans deposited their gold with a Portuguese bank, would you expect the bank to abandon the gold in the hands of the invaders (call them liberators if you wish) after the bank shifted to Portugal (especially considering the turmoil that immediately followed 19 December 1961)? Best regards Paulo Colaco Dias. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.24/101 - Release Date: 13/09/2005
[Goanet] Re: Vanishing Comunidades: Goa under threat? (The Future of Goa)
RE: http://www.supergoa.com/pt/read/news_future.asp?c_news=507 Dear Constantino, I have known about this problem for at least 5 years now. In fact, in one of the past Goanet conferences in Goa (2000?), there was an individual distributing literature about this (I think his name was Lobo from Loutulim, but I am not sure now). It is important to fight for the rights of Comunidades. I am happy that this subject is finally getting out and more people are learning about this. Best regards Paulo.
RE: [Goanet] TIMOR LESTE
Fred, I agree with the opinion of Damien Kingsbury. "Unmet expectations: You see this in a lot of postcolonial countries," Damien Kingsbury, an Australian academic and expert on Indonesia and East Timor. "Lots of people believe once their colonial masters are gone everything will get better. Well, often that isn't the case." You see, the problem in East Timor is lack of an Administrative Machine good enough to carry out the work planned by the government. The truth is that there is no Administrative infrastructure in East Timor yet. The country is only 4 years old. It has got a legitimate democratically elected government but lacks the remaining necessary administrative infrastructure to rebuild it. There are not enough engineers, not enough architects, not enough doctors. People's expectations are huge, but the government is unable to deliver because there is no infrastructure. The Australian PM and the wife of the President Xanana Gusmao blame the government and say that the ET Government is bad. I personally think that the government is doing what they can however they cannot do it on their own. What can a government do without a proper administrative infrastructure? Of course the solution for the problem is a longer co-operation between ET and the west. It is obvious that they need help and they are not getting enough. And now, to answer your tricky question Fred, I believe that it is more likely that they have learned their violence from the more recent colonial power of Indonesia than with the former Portuguese colonial power... And also a small comment about Martinho's email: Dear Martinho, this is no return of favour from the Australian. Don't even think about that. If Australia did not have any profit in the oil of East Timor, they would have not got involved so strongly as they currently are. Trust me, if it was not for the oil of East Timor (whose main beneficiary is Australia), the East Timorese would have been left completely alone to fall into civil war. Let us not have any illusions about this. Return of favour, yeah, right. East Timor saved by the oil of East Timor Gap. Nothing else! This document dated 2000 gives an introduction to the problem for those who want to read more about this: http://www.wsws.org/articles/2000/oct2000/tim-o25.shtml Best regards Paulo Colaco Dias. > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Frederick [FN] Noronha > Sent: 26 May 2006 21:48 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; goanet@goanet.org > Subject: [Goanet] TIMOR LESTE > > Hi Martinho, Here's another perspective on what's happening in another > former Portuguese colony. Without intending to bait our Lusostalgic > friends, could one ask whether there was something specific about > Portuguese colonialism that left behind strongly polarised, violent, > almost-futureless societies when compared to others (apart from French > colonialism too, to a degree ... where we also saw violent implosions like > the Portuguese case?). FN > > http://www.forbes.com/work/feeds/ap/2006/05/26/ap2776496.html > > > From: "Anthony and Nolette de Souza" > > Subject: TIMOR LESTE > > > > It's no big deal that Australia has sent troops to reestablish > order in Timor Leste > > for, during the Second World War, the Timorese saved hundreds or Aussies > fighting the > > Japanese. Australia is merely returning the favour. > > > > Martinho > _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] Fw: TIMOR LESTE
Nasci, shame on you. I know it is easy to get fooled so I do not blame you. It does not take a brain surgeon to see what Australia has been doing in East Timor since 1975. If anything, they are true opportunists and they have done everything to steal from East Timor since the Indonesian invasion. There is no other nation that has betrayed East Timor people so deeply and continues to do so. I will not be surprised if what we are seeing today in East Timor has the hand of Australia. I repeat: I will not be surprised. Do you know who the UN chose to guarantee the security of its own United Nations Special Envoy - Mr. Sukehiro Hasegawa ? Well, they chose the Portuguese force. This has been made public yesterday 28th May. The UN did not choose the Australian force (who has deployed more than 1300 men). They chose the Portuguese force instead!!! Don't you find that strange? Why is that really? Trust me. There is much more involved than simple violence here. Australian criticism of the East Timor Government is deplorable to say the least. The same can be said about the declarations of Xanana Gusmao's wife, who is also an Australian citizen. DEPLORABLE! Best regards Paulo. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nasci Caldeira Sent: 28 May 2006 11:57 To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! Subject: Re: [Goanet] Fw: TIMOR LESTE NASCI responds: To throw more light and put the latest 'East Timor' crisis in proper perspective; I am copying todays news items in Australia, numbered 1) and 2), so Readers can form their own opinions. 1) AUSTRALIAN troops struggled to impose order in Dili today as gangs of East Timorese continued to burn and destroy houses and attack ethnic rivals. Thousands of refugees have flocked to the city's airport and to churches to escape the violence and to hear religious leaders -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.7.2/349 - Release Date: 26/05/2006 _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
[Goanet] RE: Timor Leste ....or Is it Backward?
Dear Rui: I am speechless. What a masterpiece! Surely the best post of the month! Keep it up! Regards Paulo. -Original Message- From: On Behalf Of Rui Collaco Sent: 29 May 2006 00:10 Subject: Forward Timor Leste or Is it Backward? Only the likes of this well-known rabid Lusophobe could produce this piece of reflection. He obviously lacks rigour, perspective and knowledge when he poses this kind of ridiculous "question". But let me contribute to this exercise in futility, just to demonstrate how his hate for Portugal has made him blind to the reality of the world in which we live. Here are some questions for Mr. Noronha: Q.1 Which other former Portuguese colonies are at present strongly polarised, violent and almost futureless? There are 7 other countries, in case you are not aware of it. Q.2 In those ex-colonies where there were civil wars, did he care to investigate whether the roots of that violence were internal or external? Have you heard about the cold war and what were its effects in Africa, specially in Angola and Mozambique? Q.3 Do you know that none of those 7 countries has any conflict at present and almost all (except Guiné-Bissau) all are doing well or very well? Are you suggesting Brasil is futureless? Do you know that Angola is an international hotspot (economically speaking) and is expected to grow 25% this year? Have you heard that Mozambique is growing steadily and is a darling of the USA on account of good Government? Are you aware that Cabo Verde has done so well that it is about to be upgraded from developing country to intermediate development country? (That's unique in Africa). Q.4 Would you publicly defend that Goa's internal peace and communal harmony, as well as its level of development, has nothing to do with its Portuguese past? Please compare Goa with the ex-British colony, Mr. Noronha, and take some pictures too, to analyse on your return. You need not go far. Going to Belgaum will suffice. Q.5 I would like to hear from you on the current situation and future perspectives of countries like Nigeria, Zimbabwe, Uganda, Kenya, Malawi, Sudan, DR of Congo, Rwanda, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and Papua-New Guinea. Can you find a way of blaming the Portuguese for the misery and conflict that has befallen all those peoples? If not, what's the issue with the ex-Portuguese colonies? What's the rationale behind your dastardly reflection? Q.6 You are a citizen of India. Undoubtedly a proud one (all these young countries share this phenomenon of exacerbated nationalism). How do you explain that every other day there's some kind of conflict between Hindus and Muslims, having been part of that magnificent British empire, which supposedly (in your fertile imagination) left such a wonderful legacy behind? The British carved out West and East Pakistan out of India and even today, almost 60 years later India and Pakistan are sworn enemies, and you have the guts to talk about "strongly polarised, violent societies" in ex-Portuguese colonies? One million people were killed at indepence,The Mahatma was shot dead, two prime-ministers have been assassinated, thousands and thousands are periodically killed in civil strife (remember Babri mosque and Gujarat, and Srinagar 1984), priests and nuns are killed, and you only see violence in ex-Portuguese colonies? How should I describe your arrogance, as "British imperial" or that worse form which I call "Indian neo-imperial"? Q.7 What about Kashmir, that territory languishing under Indian military occupation. Isn't it polarised, extremely violent and futureless? Who is to blame for that? Isn't it about to implode too? (Maybe it already imploded, as it is nearly ungovernable, and indian leaders can hardly afford to set foot on its soil these days). Q.8 Talking about Timor-Leste (that's the name of the country), do you realise that it is just 4 years old? Are you aware that these troubles have nothing to do with etnnic or regional rivalries? Do you know that the leader of the rebellion was trained by the Australians and most probably is Australia's henchmen? Do you know that Australia has for a long time been trying to weaken the Govt. of Timor-Leste? Do you know that Australia is robbing Timor-Leste of billions of dollars of oil revenues, because it is illegally exploiting reserves that belong to Timor-Leste under international law, and refusing to budge? And that the Timorese claim, with absolute legitimacy, that they are the biggest donors of aid to Australia and not the other way round? Has it ever occurred to you that these moves are all about the oil wealth that is beginning to trickle (already $ 600 million in the Petroleum Fund), and the foreign interests, and not internal conflicts? No, I do not think you carry out investigative journalism. Lusophobia is more like your line of business. In any case, I challenge you to study, learn a little about Timor-Leste, about it
RE: [Goanet] Fw: TIMOR LESTE
Nasci, the world knows who is utterly wrong! Australia has been stealing oil from East Timor since 1975. There are thousands of documents describing this. There are UN resolutions and an International Court of Law rulling against Australia illegal exploration of East TImor oil. Australia has signed illegal treaties with Indonesia and has gone as far as betraying East Timor people by being the only country in the world to recognise East Timor's integration into Indonesia. All this for the benefit of the oil of East Timor. All this against International Law. You can make others fool but Goanetters are smarter than that. Australia has been behaving desgracefully since 1975. Shame on them and shame on you for defending them. This has nothing to do with Portugal. I repeat, I will not be surprised if Australia is found to be sponsoring these terrorists in East TImor, simply to bring the East Timor Government down and to prove them not strong enough to self govern themselves. We will see wha happens in the next few days. Then we will talk. Best regards Paulo Colaco Dias. From: Nasci Caldeira <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: "Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994!" To: "Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994!" Subject: RE: [Goanet] Fw: TIMOR LESTE Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 13:48:26 +1000 (EST) --- Paulo Colaco Dias <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Nasci, shame on you. I know it is easy to get fooled > so I do not blame you. > It does not take a brain surgeon to see what > Australia has been doing in > East Timor since 1975. If anything, they are true > opportunists and they have > done everything to steal from East Timor since the > Indonesian invasion. Nasci responds: I have only given the news of the day! Why are you so perturbed; There is 'nothing' in East Timor that Australia would need to 'steal'. How utterly wrong, you are! Australia is putting its foot forward because Portugal does not have the resources or the skills to come to the aid of their ex colony; as also to keep other powers like China and or Japan away from the region and away from Australia's doorstep. There is nothing wrong with that! This is sound 'statergy' in the interest of the Australian Nation, and the world at large. Paulo Colaco wrote: > Do you know who the UN chose to guarantee the > security of its own United > Nations Special Envoy - Mr. Sukehiro Hasegawa ? > Well, they chose the > Portuguese force. This has been made public > yesterday 28th May. > The UN did not choose the Australian force (who has > deployed more than 1300 > men). They chose the Portuguese force instead!!! > Don't you find that > strange? Why is that really? Nasci Replies: It is good, if the UN has chosen Portugal to 'secure' their Envoy; less of a burden for Australia. The Portuguese forces were incompetent to help Timorese in any way at the time of the Indon occupation of free East Timor! How gullible can you be??? How big or competent is this 'force'? Ultimately Aussie and other forces from NZ and Malaysia will be doing the 'hard and dirty work'. You have missed the main cause of this new conflict; that the East Tomorese groups 'Easterners and Westerners' are vying and killing each other for the spoils of office and the spoils to come with the developement of the Oil and Gas fields; instead of sharing, they want to take all of it; the leaders are duping their own people into these type of deliberate misunderstanding. They are not 'used' to resolving their disputes in a 'democrative way', hence resort to 'machetes'. That's the way I see the 'situ' in East Timor. Nasci Caldeira Melbourne. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] TIMOR LESTE
cond reference is a must-read document for all those interested in this subject. It summarises the issues and explains the problem in detail and, most importantly, it includes maps. It has been composed by the East Timor Action Network, an organisation based in the USA. And Nasci asks what is there in East Timor to steal Either he is being cynical or he is really ignorant of the facts. Either way, he is doing an excellent job. I rest my case. Best regards Paulo Colaco Dias. -The boundary dispute between East Timor and Australia is a question of life or death, a question of being continually poor, continually begging, or to be self-sufficient. - Xanana Gusmao - President of Timor Leste. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nasci Caldeira Sent: 30 May 2006 13:42 To: goanet@goanet.org Subject: RE: [Goanet] TIMOR LESTE Nasci: The UN? Did you say? And yet the UN called on Australia to help in every way when the Timorese struggled against the Indons' occupation and their own sections that did not want independence from Indonesia. The UN did this, since they know that Portugal that should have been doing this, was and is not competent enough! The Potuguese are the cause of all the 'turmoil and tragedy' in Timor after giving them freedom; since they did not back it up with defense and other security etc. You are surely owning guilt on behalf of the Portuguese here! Paulo Dias: > Australia has signed illegal treaties with Indonesia > and has gone as far as > betraying East Timor people by being the only > country in the world to > recognise East Timor's integration into Indonesia. > All this for the benefit > of the oil of East Timor. All this against > International Law. Nasci: On what basis do you say that 'treaties' between two sovereign countries are 'illegal' ?? When the Indons were in control, the treaty was between Indonesia and Australia; now that East Timor is an indendent nation, the new treaty is between East Timor and Australia, on sharing of the produce from the Oil and Gas fields. These fields belong to both East Timor and Australia; they are midway in what is called 'the Timor Gap'. Hence the treaties to clarify and share etc. This is good international co-operation and help and Aid! Nothing wrong with it! -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.0/352 - Release Date: 30/05/2006 _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] Past BBC programmes on Goa
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- Typical Mario... Like it or not, the events of 18th Dec. 1961 were recorded in the history books as the Indian invasion of Portuguese India. An attack from a sovereign country to another sovereign country. A violation of International Law. An act of war. So, why do you blame the BBC Your claim that the BBC is unreliable and biased is ridiculous! Paulo. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mario Goveia Sent: 01 June 2006 16:44 To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! Subject: Re: [Goanet] Past BBC programmes on Goa * G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- --- Frederick Noronha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > 2 Subject Categories > > * indian invasion of goa (1961) (3) > Mario observes: > More proof that the BBC is unreliable and biased in their reporting. > I wonder whether they had a similar show in 1948 titled * indian invasion of india (1947) > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.0/352 - Release Date: 30/05/2006 _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] PREACHING AT TIMOR
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- Mario, It is good that Australia is helping with the peace keeping force in Timor Leste. However, Australia is not doing a favour since what they are doing is monetarily insignificant compared to the billions of dollars in oil and gas that they have been stealing from East Timor for decades now and continue to do so!!! Refs: http://www.etan.org/issues/tsea/plainfact.htm http://www.timorseajustice.org/ http://www.apheda.org.au/campaigns/east_timor_gas/news/1133485503_27547.html http://multinationalmonitor.org/mm2006/012006/scheiner.html The above documents describe how a huge and wealthy country like Australia is bullying and stealing the poorest and youngest country in Asia. It is shocking and people should be aware of the issues. Hardly anyone knows about this. East Timor is being bullied and the International Community is not doing anything about it. East Timor was forced to accept half when they should have had it all, and in some cases, East Timor is still not getting any revenue from oil and gas which can be found in 100% of her own territorial waters (Timor Gap). All this because the UN or International Law could not do anything in the short time to force Australia to stop the bullying and the stealing. This is shameful on the part of Australia. Disgusting really. After all, this is the poorest and the youngest country in Asia being bullied by the giant and wealthy Australia. What is also deplorable is the open criticism of the democratically elected East Timor Government by the Australian PM and by East Timor's First Lady (Xanana Gusmao's wife) who is also an Australian citizen. In my opinion, foreign governments should not criticise other legitimate and democratically elected governments, especially when there is a clear dispute in place. It is obvious that Australia would benefit even more if East Timor is proven to be unable to govern herself. For this reason, there are indeed rumours that the rebels have been trained and are receiving support from Australia. As you must know, the leader of the rebels, Major Alfredo Reinado, has been trained in Australia and has lived in Australia for many years. It is important that the international community is aware of the issues in East Timor. After all, they share a common history with Goa and East Timor (as well as Macau) was under the jurisdiction of the Goan Courts "Tribunal da Relacao de Goa" before 1961. Best regards Paulo Colaco Dias. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mario Goveia Sent: 01 June 2006 20:28 To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! Subject: Re: [Goanet] PREACHING AT TIMOR --- cornel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Martinho > I see no ambiguity or bias in the posts relating to > Timor on Goanet. The consensus seems to be that > Australia is well tucked into its affairs because > of oil in the region. Full stop. > Mario observes: > Consensus? What consensus? > The UN, not Australia, previously had full charge of Timor Leste, and could have continued with a peacekeeping presence there until stability had been achieved, so this facile claim about Australia intervening simply because of oil seems farfetched if not flat out false. > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.0/352 - Release Date: 30/05/2006 _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] Journalism in Portuguese India 1821-1961
Cornel, I think you misunderstood Constantino. He did not mean to say that Portugal was a continent... :-) Far from it. "Continental Portugal" is an acceptable term commonly used in Portugal and by other continental European countries. I see no problem with the term. The following is from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continent When the Continent is referred to without clarification by a speaker of British English, it is usually presumed to mean Continental Europe, that is, Europe excluding the British Isles. Elsewhere, islanders may refer to the nearest mainland as simply the Continent. The Continental United States excludes Hawaii. Contiguous or Co(n)terminous United States means the United States without Alaska or Hawaii (the "Lower 48"), but it is very common for people to say continental for contiguous. * You may disagree, but facts are facts. As far as I am aware, it is commonly used by other European countries as well (e.g., France - in French, of course). I could swear that I have heard British people using the term "continent" to refer specifically to countries like Germany, France and Belgium. Even though both France and the UK are in Europe, it is commonly accepted to say that France is in the continent as opposed to the UK which is in the British Islands. The definition from wikipedia (see above) confirms this. People from Azores and Madeira always refer to the people from Continental Portugal as people from the Continent. They do not say from Portugal but they say from the Continent. This is because Portugal is everything (continental Portugal + the two archipelagos of Madeira and Azores but continental Portugal refers specifically to the region which is situated in mainland Europe) The term Continental Portugal was mostly used in the years where Territorial Portugal was huge. Territorial Portugal included the provinces of Angola, Mozambique, Cabo Verde, Sao Tome e Principe, Guine'-Bissau, Estado da India Portuguesa, Timor-Leste and Macau as well as Continental Portugal (and the adjecent Archipelagos of Madeira and Azores). So, you see, once upon a time, there was a real need to use the term Continental Portugal to refer to the tiny south west country of Europe as opposed to the vast region composed by her overseas provinces which enjoyed the same status after the 1950's (i.e., no longer colonies). Everything was de facto Portugal, i.e, territorial Portugal. The sentence "Aqui e' Portugal" (this is Portugal) was commonly used in the greeting messages of Emissora de Goa (Goan Radio), before 1961, which became the All India Radio after 1961. Regarding your advice to Constantino to visit Portugal, I am afraid that Constantino was brought-up and educated in Portugal (just like myself) and has been very much involved in promoting Goan culture and Goan events in Portugal, like the famous Goa Day which has been a true success in Portugal. Not forgetting that Constantino is also the editor and web-master for this superb site on Goa: http://www.supergoa.com Constantino is currently reading for a post-graduate degree from the University of Jawaharlal Nehru in New Delhi. Best regards Paulo Colaco Dias. > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of cornel > Sent: 04 June 2006 18:29 > To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! > Subject: Re: [Goanet] Journalism in Portuguese India 1821-1961 > > Constantino > Thank you very much for your explanation for your contemporary, repeat, > contemporary use of "continental Portugal" and also for telling me where > Portugal is situated! Actually, I have been there at least six times as it > is a mere two hour flight from London. I have also driven there and back > three additional times en route for places like Spain, Algeria and > Morocco. > I have explored Portugal's many interesting historical and geographical > nooks and corners. I am sure you would be delighted to see it for yourself > if you haven't been there yet. > > I very much regret to say that your use of "continental Portugal" is quite > misleading. It is also totally inappropriate and incorrect. Portugal is > not > a continent. It has never been one by any stretch of the imagination, > notwithstanding its maritime and military history of eight or more > centuries > to which you allude. Portugal actually happens to be a relatively small > European continental country on the windy Atlantic seaboard. > > You provide a correct dictionary definition but it merely confirms that > your > use of "continental Portugal" is also wrong. You say that, "the North > American continent...Asia and Africa are the two biggest continents." I > can > tell you that, this is is what most schoolboys/girls of a certain age >
[Goanet] Timor Leste and Australia...
For those of you following the events at Timor Leste, last week I wrote about the rumours that Australia was probably giving some support to the rebels. The leader of the rebels, Major Alfredo Reinado, has been trained in Australia and has lived in Australia for many years. Part of the rumours have been confirmed today. The Portuguese TV Channel RTP travelled to the head-quarters of the rebels base in the East Timor Mountains and interviewed Major Alfredo Reinado (sacked last April from the armed forces by the East Timor government) The Portuguese reporters have confirmed that the rebels are being protected and defended by the Australian forces in East Timor. RTP reporters were not allowed to film the Australian forces but it has been reported that the Australian forces are defending and protecting the rebels. If this is not giving support to the rebels, I do not know what it is... President Xanana Gusmao has already requested the rebels to surrender their arms and ammunitions but they remain in defiance and with alleged support from the Australian forces. On another event which has the potential to start a diplomatic conflict, Portuguese Forces GNR have been stopped today from performing their duty by Australian Forces which are questioning the legitimacy of the Portuguese forces in East Timor. Vide: http://www.publico.clix.pt/shownews.asp?id=1260199&idCanal=18 According to the news, Australian forces want the Portuguese forces to report to them but the agreement between Portugal and East Timor is that the Portuguese forces will report directly to the President of East Timor and East Timor's legitimate and democratically elected government. The Portuguese forces have been threatened by the Australian forces and confined for the time being to their own head-quarters until the situation is solved. It looks like the Australian forces want to be in command instead of cooperating with the other international forces. Why is that not surprising Australia remains bullying her young and small neighbour. The situation is indeed very sad. Best regards Paulo Colaco Dias. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] Portugal... or Angola?
Yesterday's game was a victory for both Angola and Portugal. In the words of an Angolan supporter after the end of the game (RTP news), "Quem ganhou foi a Lingua Portuguesa!" (The Portuguese Language won!). The same supporter claimed that one country of Portuguese language will win the world cup!... (- this obviously includes Brazil!) (RTP News - 11/June/2007) In true demonstrations of brotherhood, fans from both countries celebrated together before and after yesterday's game in several places of the world, including in Kennington Park yesterday (London - which was celebrating the Day of Portugal, Camoes and of the Portuguese community). "They are our brothers!", claimed both Portuguese and Angolan supporters to the international TV stations filming before the game in Cologne, Germany. This was well advertised by the British ITV Channel broadcasting the game. Those of you who watched through the British ITV channel will be witnesses of this. The British commentators were finding hard to understand this phenomenon of excellent relations and fraternity between a colony and its 500 years old coloniser. Applauses and cheering for Angola came from both the Portuguese audience as well as from the Angolan audience (which was in much lower numbers). This must have been so strange for the international community watching the game. Probably a first time occurrence in the world cup history! It is facts like these that leave the international community stunned and they find hard to understand how such good relations can prevail after such a long colonisation period. In the same way, jealous countries like Australia cannot understand why East Timor still maintains such excellent relations with Portugal to the point of adopting Portuguese as official language (very much contrary to what Australia would have liked), a language which is today far from popular in the youngest country of Asia. There are indeed many signs that demonstrate this unique type of colonisation exercised by Portugal, certainly very different from other colonial powers like the British, the French and the Dutch. I know I am going to have replies from the usual "lusophobians" but facts are facts and when they come up, I do not waste opportunities to address them. So, Fred, thanks for giving me the cue! But going back to the game, after a terrible start, Angola played well and their defence was most appropriate. In some parts of the game they were superior (words of Luiz Filipe Scholari - the Portuguese manager himself) So, congratulations to Angola. They will have a though job against Mexico but I would not underestimate them. It is the first time they qualified for a World Cup finals and they have already exceeded all expectations. Watch this team grow in the next few years. They have a lot of potential. Figo was indeed excellent. Deco was missing in this game but he will definitely play against Mexico. So, watch this Portugal team too. They are certainly one of the several favourites. Best regards Paulo Colaco Dias. > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Frederick Noronha (FN) > Sent: 12 June 2006 11:45 > To: goanet@goanet.org > Subject: [Goanet] Portugal... or Angola? > > Wonder how many of you supported Portugal and how many rooted for Angola > in yesterday's match? Actually, I'm quite illiterate in all matters > sporting, but opted for the Angolans, simply as they were underdogs. FN _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] Journalism in Portuguese India 1821-1961
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- Cornel, there are a lot of misunderstandings in Goanet. Most of them can be avoided if we make the extra effort to understand each other. Unfortunately, that does not happen often. Hence, the forum as a whole loses out tremendously because instead of making it a learning instrument we rather use it to destroy each others' points of view. Instead of learning and understanding each other all we try to do is score points. As that was not enough, we then have a "censorship" team which is far from understanding and far from neutral. But this is my opinion and I have made it clear to Herman Carneiro and to the other administrators more than once. But nothing much changes around here anyway. This is why there is not much to learn in this forum. You thought Constantino was giving you a 'mouthful' by replying with a dictionary definition and by addressing you with the title of Prof. I am 100% sure Constantino did not intend to give you a 'mouthful'. But that is because I know Constantino well and have got a lot in common with him. Your reading was obviously different and that was the cause of the problem. Constantino is a master in diplomacy and I still believe that you misunderstood him completely. I think his last response to you is very clear. Anyway, what is the point of going through this all over again? Lets just move on. Best regards Paulo. > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of cornel > Sent: 19 June 2006 15:40 > To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! > Subject: Re: [Goanet] Journalism in Portuguese India 1821-1961 > > Hi Paulo > I have only just seen your post and am sorry I could therefore not have > replied sooner. > > I have to disagree with your view that I had misunderstood Constantino. > > I had not assumed anything when I asked Constantino, most politely, and > very > briefly, what he meant by Continental Portugal in his presentation? He > could > have given me a simple answer and I would have been more than happy. > However, I got a 'mouthful' instead before I could even duck! So, where > was > my misunderstanding in the first instance? I did not even have the time > nor > opportunity to misunderstand Constantino! If in doubt, please read his > first > reply to my very humble question. > > I really would be very intrigued if you disagreed with the comment above. > Regards > Cornel _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] Attention Goanet
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- George, We either have a censorship function which is completely * neutral * and exists mainly to prevent junk mail or else if neutrality cannot be guaranteed, we should not have censorship at all. Those of us who want to make fouls of ourselves by writing nonsense should be able to do so. Perhaps those of us who write nonsense are already considered fouls and, therefore, other members can automatically press the delete key when they recognise the originator of the posts. As it stands, I would dare to say that it appears that there is a sort of black list of members who are constantly being targeted for censorship simply because they have a different point of view from the king censor himself. I particularly have a serious problem with one member of the admin team who is far from neutral and who is not shy in revealing unsubstantiated claims and accusations. I have complained several times to Herman in the past but my complaints have been ignored. We surely got rid of censorship of pre-1961 Salazar but it is very clear to me that censorship exists in this forum and is a very active function, which is a shame. So, you ask what I would change? I would remove censorship because it is clear that neutrality cannot be guaranteed. There you go, I said it. How does that sound for a reply to your question? Best, Paulo. PS: I changed the original subject of this thread because I do not think it is polite to have names of individuals in the subject. I hope you do not mind. > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of George Pinto > Sent: 20 June 2006 15:26 > To: Goanet > Subject: [Goanet] Attention Paulo Colaco: Goanet > > Hi Paulo > > Every discussion list needs to take stock periodically of its role, > purpose, etc. and change with > the times. Some are able to reinvent themselves and survive. I am curious > in reading your comment > yesterday, what changes you would make to Goanet. I am open-minded about > this topic and eager to > hear your view. > > Regards, > George _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] Goan Freedom Fighters.
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- I would like to congratulate Veronica for his most sincere post. It certainly takes courage and determination to talk about certain things of our past, especially when many of our brothers and sisters refuse to accept the truth despite clear evidence and witnesses accounts like this one from Veronica. I second Veronica and applaud Godfrey Gonsalves, Floriano, Valmiki and all the others for creating the right levels of awareness of this problem. Best Paulo Colaco Dias. > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of A. Veronica Fernandes > Sent: 19 June 2006 12:41 > > GOAN FREEDOM FIGHTERS. > > If I were a real and genuine freedom fighter, I would never accept any > reward, either Pension or Tamrapatra. My fight for freedom would never be > for any sort of material reward, my fight for freedom would only be out of > high principle and high ideology which are unrewardable materially. > Accepting any material benefit would degrade and disgrace my fight for > freedom for Goa. My fight for freedom would never be a purchable > commodity which would cheapen the gravity of my principle. My fight for > freedom wouldbe out of idelogy and the reward for this idelogical fight > would be the success of the fight that is freedom. When Goa was invaded > as stated by the great Goan Fr. Mendonca the then Principal of St. Joseph > High School, Arpora, Bardez or when Goa was conquered as verdicted by the > Supreme Court of India or when Goa was annexed by Bharat as stated by many > of the eminent Goa lover Goans or when Goa was liberated as dubbed by the > Government of India, I was young but not sucking the breast of my beloved > mother. Ours was not a family having affiliation to Portugal neither we > liked the Bharati corrupt regime. Yet we felt Portuguese should go from > Goa but by driving out European Portuguese we should not allow arriving > in of Bharati Portuguese - to quote Mahatma Gandhi. > > Goan freedom fighters have not got freedom for Goa but it was the gift > given to them on silver platter by the Nehru's Congress without taking > into confidence the larger portion of Goa. The freedom on Goa was imposed > on Goa by Bharati Millitary who during the first few days robbed Goan > Shops, Houses and raped our females. They are disgraceful Indians and I > feel ashamed that such people are Goa's liberators. No freedom fighter > then raised his voice against this mischief nor any genuine freedom > fighter opposed to the induction into their rank of fake and artificial > freedom fighters who are swarming with the blessings of BJP, MGP and > single handedly Prataph Singh Rauji Rane whose word is become a law now. > It is a shame that we still are having newer freedom fighters. > A. Veronica Fernandes, > Kuwait. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
[Goanet]DOUBLE STANDARDS
- Original Message - From: Frederick Noronha (FN) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 10:29 PM Subject: Re: [Goanet]Re: francis xavier? racist anti-hindu murderer! > On Tue, 13 Jan 2004, Jose Colaco wrote: > > > gondu kamath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Hi > > i am a Hindu from Goa, > > > > i read your article about Francis Xavier > > > > He was a racist and intolerant man. Although he came > > from a midieval culture with thoughts that > > Christianity alone brings salvation he did great harm > > to goa's history. he saw to it that our temples were > > Dr Jose, Thanks for getting active on Goanet discussions after all this > time. > > I was a bit perplexed by the purpose of this forward to Goanet. Firstly, > did "Gondu Kamath" post to the list, and is this just a response? Maybe I > missed something here. Or is this just a forward of a private mail? > For the record, I am also extremely perplexed to read the above statement from one of GoaNet's administrator. This just demonstrates the current double-standards being practiced by Goanet Administration. Some days ago, someone who is a true GoaNet Admin "protégé" posted to GoaNet an email which I had sent to a private small list of Portuguese speaking Goans. That post was in Portuguese because it was a reply to a discussion in Portuguese. Someone went to the trouble to translate it to English and to post it to GoaNet without my consent and knowledge. I was still on holiday and was not even subscribed to GoaNet, so only found out a few days later that it had been posted to GoaNet without my knowledge and my without my permission, in clear violation of international copyright law and net etiquette. I complained to GoaNet admin and even replied to Goanet but my post was rejected and until today, I have not heard a word from the admin team. Few days after, the same "protégé" claimed there are people writing in Portuguese on GoaNet... It is indeed sad. Well at least I have a single tone and what I write in Portuguese is exactly the same as what I write in English! I truly believe this is shameful behaviour from Goanet admin and wanted to make sure this is registered here. What are you going to do Fred? Reject this post too? Paulo Colaco Dias. ## # Send submissions for Goanet to [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts # # More details on Goanet at http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ # # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ##
[Goanet]Antonio Costa chosen as number 2 of the newly elected Socialist Portuguese Government.
On the 4th March 2005, the new Portuguese Prime Minister, Jose Socrates chose Antonio Costa, son of the famous Goan writer Orlando da Costa, to be the number two of his newly elected socialist Government. Antonio Costa will be the new Minister of State and Internal Administration and number two in the Portuguese Government. More information on: http://dossiers.publico.pt/dossier.asp?id=1409 (Portuguese) Antonio Costa had been Law Minister in the previous Socialist party of Prime Minister Antonio Guterres. I believe it is the first time a person of Goan Origin like Antonio Costa is chosen to be number two of a Government. It should make all of us Goans very proud. Best regards Paulo Colaco Dias.
