Re: [Goanet] Cell phones and brain tumours
Dear Marshall, I am not very sure why you wrote what you wrote. As it stands, I doubt any physician or reasonably well read individual is in denial about the Thalidomide tragedy. The points, we may all wish to note carefully - are as follows: 1: Thalidomide is a very useful drug - which is now being used in the management of selective conditions. 2: The Thalidomide tragedy was caused NOT because of the scientists, but because of its 'off-label' use a by few hyper-confident clinicians. A similar story exists with the antibiotic Chloramphenicol (Chloromycetin) . For some time, it too fell out of favour until scientists worked out the reason why the fatal Gray Baby Syndrome occurred. Chloramphenicol remains an useful antibiotic esp in developing countries. good wishes jc On 20 November 2014 00:28, Marshall Mendonza wrote I am surprised that a person who swears by science is in total denial of the havoc created by the wonder drug Thalidomide. I am however,not surprised, when such scientists assume/ presume and draw conclusions: 1. That the persons who contacted cancer were smokers. 2. that the patients/ victims were in the age group of above 70 years. 3. that they are the sole possessors of knowledge and reasoning. They only reinforce in us the old adage:“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” === >From Santosh Helekar One of the biggest problems we face in the world today is that even educated people are scientifically illiterate, and believe in all kinds of crackpot conspiracy theories.
Re: [Goanet] Cell phones and brain tumours
My interest here is providing accurate information about science, medicine and public health. I cannot help it if someone deliberately distorts the meaning of what I write for whatever reason, and tells others that I am an idiot and he is smart. The thalidomide tragedy took place in 1957 because the scientific method of testing that drug to find out if it causes genetic defects was not followed. In other words, those who you used the drug were ignorant of the science behind the action of that drug because they did not conduct proper clinical and basic scientific studies - the type of studies that have been conducted today to rule out the harmful effects of cell phones and cell phone towers. That is why I stated that the irrelevant images and videos provided in this forum in the midst of a discussion about cell phones were the result of scientific ignorance, not science. Today, thalidomide has been thoroughly tested, and is being used as an effective treatment against a type of blood cancer called multiple myeloma, and also to treat a skin condition caused by leprosy. This tells us that science and the scientific method, if properly and ethically followed, always benefits humanity and leads to progress. The question of whether cell phones cause cancer or not can only be answered by science, nothing else. Science has the last word and the final answer. As to the claim of 4 or 5 cancer sufferers in someone's neighborhood, I would ask each of you to find out for yourself. I can bet that almost everybody's neighborhood will have 4 or 5 cancer patients. This is a very common observation for the statistical reasons that I provided in my last post. Indeed, it is common to find 4 or 5 cancer patients among your relatives. In my case, 9 of my relatives have had cancer. Four had breast cancer. One had colon cancer. One had stomach cancer. One had brain cancer. One had prostate cancer. The last one I am not sure what type of cancer it was. Cheers, Santosh - Original Message - > From: Marshall Mendonza > To: goanet > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 11:28 PM > Subject: [Goanet] Cell phones and brain tumours > > I am surprised that a person who swears by science is in total denial > of the havoc created by the wonder drug Thalidomide. > > I am however,not surprised, when such scientists assume/ presume and > draw conclusions: > > 1. That the persons who contacted cancer were smokers. > > 2. that the patients/ victims were in the age group of above 70 years. > > 3. that they are the sole possessors of knowledge and reasoning. > > They only reinforce in us the old adage: > > “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level > and beat you with experience.” > You win Sir. > > Regards, > > Marshall > >
Re: [Goanet] Cell phones and brain tumours
Marshall Mendonza wrote: I am surprised that a person who swears by science is in total denial of the havoc created by the wonder drug Thalidomide. === Marshall, It seems like it is the ghost of Santosh that is haunting you. I checked the Goanet archives and there is no record of Santosh replying to your contention(s). Where do you get this info attributed to Santosh from? Once again, the subject mater, above, the one that you introduced is, "Cell phones and brain tumours." Try and explain to all 10,000 people here how you feel that thalidomide is now the wonder drug. Mervyn
[Goanet] Cell phones and brain tumours
I am surprised that a person who swears by science is in total denial of the havoc created by the wonder drug Thalidomide. I am however,not surprised, when such scientists assume/ presume and draw conclusions: 1. That the persons who contacted cancer were smokers. 2. that the patients/ victims were in the age group of above 70 years. 3. that they are the sole possessors of knowledge and reasoning. They only reinforce in us the old adage: “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” You win Sir. Regards, Marshall *The pictures and videos below do not show us anything that science caused 50 years ago. It is ignorance of science that caused all of those things. Those who ignore science are making the same mistake today by falsely perpetuating the belief that cancers caused by something else in their neighborhood are caused by a cell phone tower. If someone is really concerned about 4 or 5 people suffering from cancer in their neighborhood he should persuade the 16 - 20 neighbors of his to give up smoking because science tells us that anybody who smokes more than 5 cigarettes a day has a 25% chance of getting cancer. Someone who is scientifically ignorant would not also know that every neighborhood that has more than 13 people above the age of 70 would have on an average 4 or 5 people suffering from cancer. Scientifically literate person on the other hand would know this fact and that the exact reason for it is that the lifetime risk for any person to get cancer is 40% (43% for men and 37% for women). One of the biggest problems we face in the world today is that even educated people are scientifically illiterate, and believe in all kinds of crackpot conspiracy theories. Cheers, Santosh*
Re: [Goanet] Cell phones and brain tumours
On Wed, 11/19/14, Marshall Mendonza wrote: I reiterate that although science has helped mankind to grow and develop, science is not the end and does not have answers to everything. This is what Science caused over 50 years ago. Those who believed in it are suffering till today. https://www.google.co.in/search?q=thalidomide&espv=2&es_sm=93&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=yzFsVIXELKG8mQWc64LgCw&ved=0CD0QsAQ&biw=1366&bih=667 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOdKe9PzKB0 Marshall, You regurgitated the subject "Cell phones and brain tumours" here. After one reply, you have abandoned ship. I was actually hoping that your input would throw light on this subject for those in the dark in Goa. Now, if I am reading you correct, you are clinching to the straw of thalidomide babies. I googled and there seems to be no connection with thalidomide babies and Goa/Goans. Perhaps your beef is with science? If so, scientist do not have the answers to everything. All they are trying to do is move items from the realm of the unknown, into that of the known. Once that is done, scientist do not tell you how to use scientific knowledge. For example, no scientist can tell an adult to stop smoking, drinking coffee, alcohol or the use of any other drug. That choice, after all the scientific evidence is presented, remains in the hands of the drug user or non-user. And so does the responsibility. Mervyn *People continue to have irrational beliefs and fears even after science has answered many questions once and for all. For example, many left-wing and right-wing adherents believe that vaccinations are harmful to children. About 40% of Americans believe that the earth is less than 10,000 years old. 50% believe in various medical conspiracy theories. A significant number of people still believe that the earth is flat. It is a common observation that when people who prefer to stick to their faith-based beliefs and ideologies despite evidence to the contrary always resort to platitudes such science is not the last word, science does not know everything, etc.The truth is in the present case, common sense, let alone science, has the final answer. If cell phone use has gone up from nothing to more that 90% of the population even in poor countries with absolutely no increase in incidence of brain cancer or any particular type of cancer, then cell phone use is not a cancer-causing public health problem. Any educated rational person should accept this fact.Cheers,Santosh*
Re: [Goanet] Cell phones and brain tumours
The pictures and videos below do not show us anything that science caused 50 years ago. It is ignorance of science that caused all of those things. Those who ignore science are making the same mistake today by falsely perpetuating the belief that cancers caused by something else in their neighborhood are caused by a cell phone tower. If someone is really concerned about 4 or 5 people suffering from cancer in their neighborhood he should persuade the 16 - 20 neighbors of his to give up smoking because science tells us that anybody who smokes more than 5 cigarettes a day has a 25% chance of getting cancer. Someone who is scientifically ignorant would not also know that every neighborhood that has more than 13 people above the age of 70 would have on an average 4 or 5 people suffering from cancer. Scientifically literate person on the other hand would know this fact and that the exact reason for it is that the lifetime risk for any person to get cancer is 40% (43% for men and 37% for women). One of the biggest problems we face in the world today is that even educated people are scientifically illiterate, and believe in all kinds of crackpot conspiracy theories. Cheers, Santosh - Original Message - > From: Marshall Mendonza > To: goanet > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 12:25 AM > Subject: [Goanet] Cell phones and brain tumours > > I reiterate that although science has helped mankind to grow and develop, > science is not the end and does not have answers to everything. This is > what Science caused over 50 years ago. Those who believed in it are > suffering till today. > > https://www.google.co.in/search?q=thalidomide&espv=2&es_sm=93&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=yzFsVIXELKG8mQWc64LgCw&ved=0CD0QsAQ&biw=1366&bih=667 > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOdKe9PzKB0 > > Regards, > > Marshall >
[Goanet] Cell phones and brain tumours
I reiterate that although science has helped mankind to grow and develop, science is not the end and does not have answers to everything. This is what Science caused over 50 years ago. Those who believed in it are suffering till today. https://www.google.co.in/search?q=thalidomide&espv=2&es_sm=93&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=yzFsVIXELKG8mQWc64LgCw&ved=0CD0QsAQ&biw=1366&bih=667 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOdKe9PzKB0 Regards, Marshall *People continue to have irrational beliefs and fears even after science has answered many questions once and for all. For example, many left-wing and right-wing adherents believe that vaccinations are harmful to children. About 40% of Americans believe that the earth is less than 10,000 years old. 50% believe in various medical conspiracy theories. A significant number of people still believe that the earth is flat. It is a common observation that when people who prefer to stick to their faith-based beliefs and ideologies despite evidence to the contrary always resort to platitudes such science is not the last word, science does not know everything, etc.The truth is in the present case, common sense, let alone science, has the final answer. If cell phone use has gone up from nothing to more that 90% of the population even in poor countries with absolutely no increase in incidence of brain cancer or any particular type of cancer, then cell phone use is not a cancer-causing public health problem. Any educated rational person should accept this fact.Cheers,Santosh*
Re: [Goanet] Cell phones and brain tumours
If this type of empty cynicism had taken root in our society we would not have seen any progress. We would still be in the dark ages. Today science and technology are advancing at unprecedented pace. Humankind is reaping huge benefits from this progress. Cell phones are a great example of this. Every vocation big and small is prospering as a result of them. Carpenters, bricklayers, housemaids, caterers, general practitioners, all have cell phones and are making good use of them in their business, helping themselves and all others in the process. Cheers, Santosh - Original Message - > From: Dr. Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão > To: "goa...@goanet.org" ; "mmendonz...@gmail.com" > > Cc: > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 10:40 AM > Subject: [Goanet] Cell phones and brain tumours > > COMMENT: > Marshall, nowadays, science is no longer a help to humanity. Humanity if > forsaken! > First priority is selfish interest of profits, be they personal, industrial > of > of the Nation. > Scientist and FDA as seen are faking and manipulating results, and our many > so > called scientists are become sycophants to the system. > Their constant argument will always be, there is no peer reviewed research > that > confirms what you say. > So, as long as the system does not admit its sycophancy, you will hear that > all > is safe, unless proved otherwise. > > > Dr. Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão. >
Re: [Goanet] Cell phones and brain tumours
On Tue, 11/18/14, Marshall Mendonza wrote: In my neighbourhood, there is a building which hosted a Cellphone Tower. In the building next to it and in its immediate vicinity, I personally know of at least 4-5 residents who suffered/ are suffering from cancer, though not of the brain. Whether it was a coincidence that the cancer patients resided within the proximity of the Cellphone Towers or they contacted cancer because of other reasons I do not know. However, the Cellphone Towers have put a fear in the minds of people in the neighbourhood. People are not ready to accept and debate scientific claims when their lives and well being is at stake. Science is not the last word. Science is still searching for an answer. - Marshall, I always had the impression that you would return to a topic when you had new evidence to support/contradict a claim. As such, I am surprised at your comments as I do not see why anyone would use "perhaps coincidence?" to prolong a debate. I believe you are being counter productive. You are correct on one thing though. Some people will never accept scientific proof. Despite all the proof that smoking is carcinogenic, people continue to smoke. Some even insist that the health professionals/scientist who link cancers to smoking, are just a bunch of idiots. Mervyn
[Goanet] Cell phones and brain tumours
Marshall Mendonza mmendonza55 at gmail.com on Mon Nov 17 21:52:46 PST 2014 wrote: In my neighbourhood, there is a building which hosted a Cellphone Tower. In the building next to it and in its immediate vicinity, I personally know of at least 4-5 residents who suffered/ are suffering from cancer, though not of the brain. Whether it was a coincidence that the cancer patients resided within the proximity of the Cellphone Towers or they contacted cancer because of other reasons I do not know. However, the Cellphone Towers have put a fear in the minds of people in the neighbourhood. People are not ready to accept and debate scientific claims when their lives and well being is at stake. Science is not the last word. Science is still searching for an answer. Regards, Marshall COMMENT: Marshall, nowadays, science is no longer a help to humanity. Humanity if forsaken! First priority is selfish interest of profits, be they personal, industrial of of the Nation. Scientist and FDA as seen are faking and manipulating results, and our many so called scientists are become sycophants to the system. Their constant argument will always be, there is no peer reviewed research that confirms what you say. So, as long as the system does not admit its sycophancy, you will hear that all is safe, unless proved otherwise. Dr. Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão.
Re: [Goanet] Cell phones and brain tumours
People continue to have irrational beliefs and fears even after science has answered many questions once and for all. For example, many left-wing and right-wing adherents believe that vaccinations are harmful to children. About 40% of Americans believe that the earth is less than 10,000 years old. 50% believe in various medical conspiracy theories. A significant number of people still believe that the earth is flat. It is a common observation that when people who prefer to stick to their faith-based beliefs and ideologies despite evidence to the contrary always resort to platitudes such science is not the last word, science does not know everything, etc. The truth is in the present case, common sense, let alone science, has the final answer. If cell phone use has gone up from nothing to more that 90% of the population even in poor countries with absolutely no increase in incidence of brain cancer or any particular type of cancer, then cell phone use is not a cancer-causing public health problem. Any educated rational person should accept this fact. Cheers, Santosh - Original Message - > From: Marshall Mendonza > To: goanet > Cc: > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2014 11:52 PM > Subject: [Goanet] Cell phones and brain tumours > > Jose Colaco wrote: > > I am not even a minimal expert on this BUT, I thought that I'd post this > anyway - for what it's worth. Whatever the scientific theories, I advise my > clients to use mic/earphones, and speakers (esp while driving) when using > cell phones to communicate. > > Santosh Helekar wrote: > > Cell phone use has increased 300% since 2000, but there has not been even > the slightest increase in the incidence of glioma, the brain tumor that is > referred to in the article below. In fact, if I remember correctly there > has been a slight decline. > > Response: > > In my neighbourhood, there is a building which hosted a Cellphone Tower. In > the building next to it and in its immediate vicinity, I personally know of > at least 4-5 residents who suffered/ are suffering from cancer, though not > of the brain. Whether it was a coincidence that the cancer patients resided > within the proximity of the Cellphone Towers or they contacted cancer > because of other reasons I do not know. However, the Cellphone Towers have > put a fear in the minds of people in the neighbourhood. People are not > ready to accept and debate scientific claims when their lives and well > being is at stake. Science is not the last word. Science is still searching > for an answer. > > Regards, > > Marshall >
[Goanet] Cell phones and brain tumours
Jose Colaco wrote: I am not even a minimal expert on this BUT, I thought that I'd post this anyway - for what it's worth. Whatever the scientific theories, I advise my clients to use mic/earphones, and speakers (esp while driving) when using cell phones to communicate. Santosh Helekar wrote: Cell phone use has increased 300% since 2000, but there has not been even the slightest increase in the incidence of glioma, the brain tumor that is referred to in the article below. In fact, if I remember correctly there has been a slight decline. Response: In my neighbourhood, there is a building which hosted a Cellphone Tower. In the building next to it and in its immediate vicinity, I personally know of at least 4-5 residents who suffered/ are suffering from cancer, though not of the brain. Whether it was a coincidence that the cancer patients resided within the proximity of the Cellphone Towers or they contacted cancer because of other reasons I do not know. However, the Cellphone Towers have put a fear in the minds of people in the neighbourhood. People are not ready to accept and debate scientific claims when their lives and well being is at stake. Science is not the last word. Science is still searching for an answer. Regards, Marshall
Re: [Goanet] Cell phones and brain tumours
It is important to provide a comprehensive and accurate view of the present understanding on any public health topic. The article cited below refers to a rehashed post-hoc analysis of two old case control studies conducted to milk out some result where there is none. "Exposures were assessed by questionnaire" is all you need to know to have serious concerns about what is being reported. If anybody wants to understand why that is the case, I would be happy to provide an explanation. The author of this article is the only person who repeatedly claims that there is some link between brain tumors and cell phones. All other researchers in the field who have conducted much larger, more significant and more properly conducted studies have failed to find any such link. To those who understand the science behind cell phone radiation the reason for this absence of link is obvious. Cell phone use has increased 300% since 2000, but there has not been even the slightest increase in the incidence of glioma, the brain tumor that is referred to in the article below. In fact, if I remember correctly there has been a slight decline. Cheers, Santosh Jose Colaco wrote: Dear all, I am not even a minimal expert on this BUT, I thought that I'd post this anyway - for what it's worth. Whatever the scientific theories, I advise my clients to use mic/earphones, and speakers (esp while driving) when using cell phones to communicate. Medscape Medical News > Neurology Long-Term Cell Phone Use Linked to Brain Tumor Risk Pauline Anderson November 13, 2014 Long-term use of both mobile and cordless phones is associated with an increased risk for glioma, the most common type of brain tumor, the latest research on the subject concludes. The new study shows that the risk for glioma was tripled among those using a wireless phone for more than 25 years and that the risk was also greater for those who had started using mobile or cordless phones before age 20 years. "Doctors should be very concerned by this and discuss precautions with their patients," study author Lennart Hardell, MD, PhD, professor, Department of Oncology, University Hospital, Örebro, Sweden, told Medscape Medical News. Such precautions, he said, include using hands-free phones with the "loud speaker" feature and text messaging instead of phoning. The study was published online October 28 in Pathophysiology.
[Goanet] Cell phones and brain tumours
Dear all, I am not even a minimal expert on this BUT, I thought that I'd post this anyway - for what it's worth. Whatever the scientific theories, I advise my clients to use mic/earphones, and speakers (esp while driving) when using cell phones to communicate. Medscape Medical News > Neurology Long-Term Cell Phone Use Linked to Brain Tumor Risk Pauline Anderson November 13, 2014 Long-term use of both mobile and cordless phones is associated with an increased risk for glioma, the most common type of brain tumor, the latest research on the subject concludes. The new study shows that the risk for glioma was tripled among those using a wireless phone for more than 25 years and that the risk was also greater for those who had started using mobile or cordless phones before age 20 years. "Doctors should be very concerned by this and discuss precautions with their patients," study author Lennart Hardell, MD, PhD, professor, Department of Oncology, University Hospital, Örebro, Sweden, told Medscape Medical News. Such precautions, he said, include using hands-free phones with the "loud speaker" feature and text messaging instead of phoning. The study was published online October 28 in Pathophysiology.
