Re: [Goanet] Christian Goanet. Religion-bashing & Bigotry
Joe Vaz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > My contract allows me to work in at least 14 more > countries. Good for you, Joe. I am especially glad that Saudi was your top choice from the 14 countries. > What does your contract allow you to do? The short answer is that I do not have a contract. It seems insane to limit my aspirations to a good contract. > Secondly, no > one has stopped me from worshiping in a Church, at > anytime or any place. I still do! So theres the > answers to your two questions. You are dead wrong > on both counts. I believe you! Now if you can give me the time and place of mass on the Lord's day, I could pass on the info to the citizens of Saudi and the Chancellor of the OBL University. > Finally, the only thing I agree with you is that > you have not stopped being a teenager. :-( What can I say, Joe? I am different things to different people. Some get the impression I am retired , others that I am a teenager. > Now that I answered both your questions, can you > tell us what makes a pious Christian like you to > privately send me several hate-mails? Er, you are the one who started the hate mails by publically accusing me of sending you a virus. I could have easily replied with a public, "So, have you stopped beating your wife yet?" Instead, I offered to identify the sender of the virus. Your reply, essentially, is that it is more to your advantage if I do not identify the evil perpetrator. Mervyn3.0 "Actually, evil has little or nothing to do with the concept of God. The concept of God simply highlights the difference between good and evil." - Mario Goveia __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Christian Goanet. Religion-bashing & Bigotry
Fred, your discourse with Nasci reminds of that Sanskrit saying about reciting poetry to a buffalo! Cheers, RKN <> ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Christian Goanet. Religion-bashing & Bigotry (attn. G. Pinto-Final)
This is a meaningless thread, Nasci is not making any convincing points, except to use each post to pour scorn on a religion he doesn't belong to and doesn't think twice before insulting and misinterpreting. On 07/08/06, Nasci Caldeira <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I do respect Hindus as people, but cannot find enough > reasons/gut to support their beliefs re worship of > 'animals'; as also their caste system and prejudices You do not have to "support" other people's beliefs, just as they do not need to "support" yours. You just need to realise that the world is round, it take all types to make this planet. You cannot force your views or (obviously very biased) evaluations on anyone else. Christ said love your neighbours. George Bernard Shaw (if I recall right) said you just need to tolerate your neighbours. You show signs of neither. And arguing that you don't have any Hindu neighbours doesn't cut too much ice. > How come the majority Hindus, who you say are good, > are supporting this Hindutva nonsense; and how come > this 'GOOD? majority does not RISE AGAINST these > hedeous acts? Hmmm? Watch where your logic goes, Nasci. You better be prepared with an answer over how all those good Christians (specially the Catholics of Bavaria) supported a Hitler, and ditto for a Franco, a Mussolini and a Salazar! If the "majority" Hindus had to support Hindutva, India would have bade goodbye to secularism long ago. Fact is the BJP struggles to come to power at Delhi, has to make all kinds of compromises with all kind of strange bed-fellows, never gets more than 20-35 per cent of the votes cast (even less if you take the full electorate). In Goa too, the BJP has to depend on the Wilfred de Souzas, the Francisco Sardinhas, the Babush Monserrates, the FX Mickky Pachecos (and other dissident Congressmen whose ambitions are easily fuelled) to come to power inspite of Goa having a 65% Hindu population. Likewise, Manohar Parrikar knows he cannot win an election in his hometown of Mapusa, and that he can win in Panjim with the support of the so-called Catholic "elite" taken in by promises of good governance and a prettified town! Your facts are just wrong Nasci, and your arguments are bigoted. A deadly combination. FN -- Frederick Noronha http://fn.goa-india.org 9822122436 +91-832-240-9490 http://fredericknoronha.wordpress.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Christian Goanet. Religion-bashing & Bigotry (attn. G. Pinto-Final))
--- George Pinto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Dear Nasci > I have my doubts if you truly respect Hindus from > your comments on this forum. You take the > actions of a fanatical few Hindvata types (who are > not real Hindus) to disparage Hindus in > general. NASCI responds: Dear George, I do respect Hindus as people, but cannot find enough reasons/gut to support their beliefs re worship of 'animals'; as also their caste system and prejudices that 'FOREVER' condemn people who so called low born. These are the most idiotic and primitive philosophies and actions ever practiced on Planet Earth! What's worse is they do not keep this private, but are actively 'imposing' these on non believers and agnostics, thru actions like slaughter ban and street saffron cow/ bull FASHION Parades!??? How come you have not spoken out against these? Does this mean that you are yourself 'caste prejudiced' and so primitive in thought to find that animals are above some human beings? How come the majority Hindus, who you say are good, are supporting this Hindutva nonsense; and how come this 'GOOD? majority does not RISE AGAINST these hedeous acts? Hmmm? George Pinto states: Yes, of course the caste system is wrong, > but that is your crutch to attack Hinduism. Nasci explains: This caste system is not something peripheral in its effects on individuals and society; it is the very essence of segregation and apartheid and the misery that engulfs the unfortunate! It's like saying that 'Apartheid in S. Africa should not have been attacked and dismantled; that it was just a 'Crutch' western and Eastern had against the earstwhile regime! Oh George, how much more of this 'pro Hindu Atrocities Bias' are you hiding?? George Pinto states: > you conveniently state it is not part of this > thread, when Goan Catholic injustices are brought to > your attention. If you had the spine, why don't you > address women's equality and Goan Catholics or > do you agree with my comments below. > Nasci responds: Whenever you are talking of discrimination in Goan Catholic Society against women; what you are really talking up is 'MALE CHAUVINISM". This has existed amidst MAN (not sexist here) since the time of Adam and EVE! It continues today in all soieties and religious groups a well as with the non religious groups, eastern and western! What varies is the 'degree of male chauvinism', and its observance! As you would know, it is not peculiar to Goan Catholics or any other group; but is universal. Most prevalent in Muslim society, less so amongst Hindus and Christians and even the Jews have modernised. This 'male chauvinism' "injustice" as you are prone to call it, pales into insignificance when compared to 'everlasting' Casteism and animal worship, and the trampling of Harijans under upper class feet! Do you not think that'GOA SUDHAROP' under your leadership should start with Sudharop of Brahmins and Ksatriyas etc to this end, and the uplifting of the people who are being trodden upon?? Do start with the the Hindu top castes please. Such Sudharop will have a 'greater good impact' on Hindu and Catholic society. Will you and Marlon take up this challenge? I ask Marlon Menezes to donate at least a Million Dollars to this cause, as also his time, talent and sacrifice! Then let him self publish his donation! That is the raeson I say these are matters not in keeping with my original thread. So also your 'now and then' comments on women Priests and cannonised Indian/Goan Saints. Let me tell you that these come under 'Church Reform' Where is your topic under this thread? These do not impact on 'other' communities in any way. Is it not so? No hard feelings, George! just asking for compassionate thinking and ACTION. With regards, Nasci Caldeira. Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Christian Goanet. Religion-bashing & Bigotry
Dear Mervyn, What you have written is not true! Secondly, pls note that one does not have to go to the Church/Temple or Mosque to worship/pray. God is everywhere. One does not become a pious Christian if u are in Rome or a pious Hindu if u are in Mathura or pious Muslim if you are Mecca.. .all that you need to have is a rock solid FAITH. Dev borem korum Edward Verdes - KSA http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Christian Goanet. Religion-bashing & Bigotry
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. Mervyn3.0: My contract allows me to work in at least 14 more countries. What does your contract allow you to do? Theres no prize for guessing ... First, you need to learn how to quote the First Commandment. Secondly, no one has stopped me from worshiping in a Church, at anytime or any place. I still do! So theres the answers to your two questions. You are dead wrong on both counts. Finally, the only thing I agree with you is that you have not stopped being a teenager. :-( Now that I answered both your questions, can you tell us what makes a pious Christian like you to privately send me several hate-mails? Below is Mervyns admission of knowing the sender of the virus-laden mails: -- From : Mervyn Lobo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent : Tuesday, August 1, 2006 1:05 AM To : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject : Re: [Goanet] The secret of a goanetter's moral superiority -- Joe, Actually I can do better than that. I can tell you who sent you that virus. This is not a free service. Mervyn3.0 Joe Vaz PS: I will try NOT to argue with TEENAGERS. -- Mervyn Lobo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: - Joe Vaz, The first commandment is: I am the Lord your God, do not have false Gods above me." My questions for you or any pious Christian in S. :Arabia is: Since you are told very clearly PRIOR to signing your contract that you will not be allowed to worship in a church in S. Arabia, why would one willingly go to such a place? What attracts you to a place where a follower of Christ cannot go and pray in the open? These two questions have troubled me since I was a teenager. Any help/views will be appreciated. Mervyn3.0 == _ Fall in Love... Get married! Join FREE! http://www.shaadi.com/ptnr.php?ptnr=msnhottag ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Christian Goanet. Religion-bashing & Bigotry (attn. G. Pinto
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. "Frederick Noronha" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On 02/08/06, Nasci Caldeira <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > I do not see any gross injustices or bigotry from Indian Christians, practiced IN INDIA, at the > present time or in the immediate past. If anyone FRED asserts: > Nasci, You are conveniently restricting yourself to > a frame of > reference where you know you probably won't find > "inconvenient" > evidence. If you look at the globe, you will find > "gross injustices" > and "bigotry" from a number of persons who are > Christian. So, I wonder > why you lash out at people of other faiths in all > your writing. > NASCI replies: Dear Fred, I am delberately restricting myself; since I am only interested in protesting against those Hindu practices In India, which offend others in PUBLIC Areas, as also which are being all directly and indirectly imposed on other non believers. I am not concerned with what is anyone's belief and practiced strictly in private. Globally as you say; it may be as you say about Christians; therefore there are movements and wars to counter these! What is anyone doing in India, in the Indian context of Hindutva dadagiri? I am trying to do my bit. That's all. In India/Goa, the freedom for religious practice, is isolated to parts of the country; and is effectively stymied by the majority Hindus (caste Hindus) in large parts of the country. How about that? FRED asserts: > In India, we have had religious freedom and > tolerance in greater measure than some of the Western (read WASP)countries you admire. > What we have been seeing since the mid-nineties is > not the doings of Hinduism. It stems from Hindutva (a political ideology, not to be confused with the religion Hinduism). This reflects > the intolerant, bigoted fringe, which is trying to seize control of Hinduism and play the role of a self-appointed spokesperson. Just as people of your ike > represent the intolerant, bigoted fringe of their > own religions. Nasci replies: I know all about this Hindutva business! It actually started soon after the Nehru era; but gained momentum from as early as when Indira was PM for the first time. If it is not religion, as you say; then why is anyone and the Govt. allowing this to go on under the 'guise of religious freedom'?? Why is there no public movement to ban this behavior and put the same into 'Constitutional Law'? Is that not a trampling on the freedom of other religions? I am only protesting against the caste prejudices and animal worship as these inpact on other non believers in a major way! I am only demanding from them, their respect and tolerence of others' beliefs; as also not to impose their beliefs on others! So then WHO IS the BIGOT? I am not forcing my religious beliefs on others. FRED asserts: > a religion which you obviously don't even > understand, though your ancestors belonged to it. NASCI: If my ancestors were hindu, does not mean that I have to remain primitive in thought and worship, in this day and age! FRED asserts: To call Hindus animal worshippers is akin to > saying that Catholics worship wood, because of all > the statues in the churches. NASCI responds: Vasant and Vivek and Santosh have testified and support that Hindus 'worship' animals; and Vasant even said that the people have been asked to refrain from doing that. I do not care who worships what; as long as these have no public impact on others' day to day life. Fred, the Hindus actually 'WORSHIP' animals and other deities like Ganesh; that's their business! Christians do not worship the 'Wood of the Cross' but do only venerate that 'Wood'. They do not worship the statues made of wood; they do venarate the persons whom the statues represent, as also the Virgin Mary. Only The Father in Heaven and Jesus Christ and The HOLY SPIRIT are God and worshiped as such. FRED quotes: http://www.buildingwithbooks.org/res/isp/hinduism/HinduismTF.html Hindus believe in treating all living things equally and have high regard for animals, especially the cow. Many Hindus believe that the cow is a living symbol of mother earth. In early agricultural times, the cow, thought to have been the first animalHindus domesticated, provided a lot for families, including milk, milk products, labor, and dung. Because cows would give all its possessions for the benefit of others, they were thought of as one of the most important parts of the family. Nasci responds: Dea
Re: [Goanet] Christian Goanet. Religion-bashing & Bigotry (attn. G.Pinto)
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. Hi cornel, To be short and to the point;I must assert that I want: 1) banning of "Ban of Cow Slaughter" leglislation in every State and Union Territory In India. There is no such 'ban on cow slaughter' leglislation in Goa, as far as I know. It is presumably a State Subject. 2) I also want legislation 'banning of protests and violence' on public places like resautrants etc, serving any type of food, like beef and or pork etc. There should be legal and social tolerence and freedom. 3)No, I do not and did not support the ban on da Vinci Code, in any form. But I also ask that the ban on Satanic Verses and another similar one on some thing relating to Hinduism and Hindutva, be withdrawn and these be allowed to be read and be available worldwide. Take on these Muslims and Hindus and Christians who say otherwise. Regards, Nasci - --- cornel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Nasci > Simply for clarification only and if I got this > right, I note that you do > not want a ban on cow slaughter (presumably in Goa) > but I wonder if you > supported the ban on the Da Vinci Code film in Goa? > If you did, can you > briefly please say why? > Thanks > Cornel Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Christian Goanet. Religion-bashing & Bigotry
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. <> Really surprising that you missed the simple answer, Mervyn. It's there in that story iteself: "And with that, poor Herman had had enough. He turned to Mary and said, "I don't want to hurt your feelings, Honey, but you know if it weren't for your money, I probably wouldn't be here either!" Just replace Mary with Saudi Arabia and you've the answer. Don't be troubled anymore, Mervyn! Cheers, RKN ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Christian Goanet. Religion-bashing & Bigotry (attn. G.Pinto)
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. Hello All, Well I think there should not be any ban on cow slaughter, firstly there are people like me who are good beef eaters and mutton nowdays is really costly. Secondly, no one should support this ban, the reason is today there is ban on cow slaughter and serving, the next will be on pigs slaughter and serving them, please have a heart and dont start a new war, we already have enough problems on hand in society today. These things must not be given any air. i sincerely appeal to all to stop these topics, can only cause more harm than good, beef is served, let it be served and the poor man eat one meal. Lenny ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Christian Goanet. Religion-bashing & Bigotry
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. Joe Vaz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > In a rather humorous story WHY ARE YOU HERE Maxie > Dunnam asks the questions: What is it that brings > you here? Joe Vaz, The first commandment is: I am the Lord your God, do not have false Gods above me." I really liked your story about: "And with that, poor Herman had had enough. He turned to Mary and said, "I don't want to hurt your feelings, Honey, but you know if it weren't for your money, I probably wouldn't be here either!" My questions for you or any pious Christian in S. Arabia is: Since you are told very clearly PRIOR to signing your contract that you will not be allowed to worship in a church in S. Arabia, why would one willingly go to such a place? What attracts you to a place where a follower of Christ cannot go and pray in the open? These two questions have troubled me since I was a teenager. Any help/views will be appreciated. Mervyn3.0 __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Christian Goanet. Religion-bashing & Bigotry (attn. G.Pinto)
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. I have my doubts if the author of "[Goanet] Christian Goanet?" truly respect Hindus, Catholics and Muslims equally on this forum? Cip -Original Message- George Pinto wrote : 05 August 2006 02:18 Subject: Re: [Goanet] Christian Goanet. Religion-bashing & Bigotry (attn. G.Pinto) Dear Nasci I have my doubts if you truly respect Hindus from your comments on this forum. You take the actions of a fanatical few Hindvata types (who are not real Hindus) to disparage Hindus in general. Yes, of course the caste system is wrong, but that is your crutch to attack Hinduism. And you conveniently state it is not part of this thread, when Goan Catholic injustices are brought to your attention. If you had the spine, why don't you address women's equality and Goan Catholics or do you agree with my comments below. Regards, George Nasci responds: I respect all that may be good in Hindu philosophy and good practices. They have NO RIGHT to have their Bad Practices to impact in public. Keep it strictly Private, confined to the Temple and or Home. George Pinto says: > And if you are really interested in fighting injustice why don't you speak > up and fight for it within the Christian tradition. Take women's equality for example > (and I am not refering to women priests only). Can you honestly say that Goan women > are treated equally in the Goan Catholic home? Do they have the same access to education, > money, and other benefits? Are they treated equally in inheritance matters? Are they > offered the same access to good paying jobs? Are they treated in a non-sexist > manner by Goan Catholic men? ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Christian Goanet. Religion-bashing & Bigotry (attn. G. Pinto)
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. Dear Nasci I have my doubts if you truly respect Hindus from your comments on this forum. You take the actions of a fanatical few Hindvata types (who are not real Hindus) to disparage Hindus in general. Yes, of course the caste system is wrong, but that is your crutch to attack Hinduism. And you conveniently state it is not part of this thread, when Goan Catholic injustices are brought to your attention. If you had the spine, why don't you address women's equality and Goan Catholics or do you agree with my comments below. Regards, George Nasci responds: I respect all that may be good in Hindu philosophy and good practices. They have NO RIGHT to have their Bad Practices to impact in public. Keep it strictly Private, confined to the Temple and or Home. George Pinto says: > And if you are really interested in fighting injustice why don't you speak > up and fight for it within the Christian tradition. Take women's equality for > example > (and I am not refering to women priests only). Can you honestly say that Goan > women > are treated equally in the Goan Catholic home? Do they have the same access > to education, > money, and other benefits? Are they treated equally in inheritance matters? > Are they > offered the same access to good paying jobs? Are they treated in a non-sexist > manner by Goan Catholic men? ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Christian Goanet. Religion-bashing & Bigotry (attn. G.Pinto)
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. Hi Nasci Simply for clarification only and if I got this right, I note that you do not want a ban on cow slaughter (presumably in Goa) but I wonder if you supported the ban on the Da Vinci Code film in Goa? If you did, can you briefly please say why? Thanks Cornel - Original Message - From: "Nasci Caldeira" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994!" Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 2:03 PM Subject: Re: [Goanet] Christian Goanet. Religion-bashing & Bigotry (attn. G.Pinto) Nasci Caldeira BUT PLEASE do not impose these on others in society; by way of 'Ban on Cow Slaughter, protesting and commiting violence against places that serve beef etc ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Christian Goanet. Religion-bashing & Bigotry (attn. G. Pinto)
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- George Pinto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- Nasci Caldeira <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Dear George, > I do not see any gross injustices or bigotry > from Indian Christians, practiced IN INDIA, > at the present time or in the immediate past. If > anyone can point 'these' out to me/us, > then it would be helpful to find ways and means > to tackle these, and > nip them in the bud, to everyone's benefit. > > Dear Nasci > If you live in a glass house, why are you throwing > stones at others? Have you stopped to consider > what Hindus might consider of YOUR beliefs? Put > yourself in the shoes of a Hindu and try and > relate to the Virgin Birth, Ascension into Heaven, > Salvific value of Christ's death, etc. Would > you not be incredulous? NASCI RESPONDS: Dear George? How do you know I would be incredulous, in the sense that you mean? Cetainly not! Please note, that I am not talking of Hindu internal Beliefs either; but am protesting on their 'public practices' and their unwanted impact on all who live in India. Man is the most intelligent of God's creatures, the most intelligent 'animal' on the planet! Simple Logic shows that Man being of a higher order, should and must 'look after and help' those in the lower order, Humans and other animals; One does not 'WORSHIP' animals and at the same time, and in the same 'breath', condemn another HUMAN BEING just because he is born from a so called low caste womb! In all my postings, I have only alluded to caste discrimination and animal worship; nothing else! Even here; if any hindus feel that way and want to worship cow and monkey etc; they are free to do so! BUT PLEASE do not impose these on others in society; by way of 'Ban on Cow Slaughter, protesting and commiting violence against places that serve beef etc, and unruly VERY LOUD processions of their dieties, through public areas. That's all that I am saying! Give respect to others not of these beliefs, and allow all others , and at all times, to go about their lives peacefully. George Pinto says: "Outside the narrow > Hinduvta views of a minority (which is NOT Hindu > philosophy and religion), Hindus are a VERY > tolerant and respectful people. Is is too much to > ask the same in return?" Nasci responds: I respect all that may be good in Hindu philosophy and good practices. They have NO RIGHT to have their Bad Practices to impact in public. Keep it strictly Private, confined to the Temple and or Home. George Pinto on a tangent? says: And if you are really > interested in fighting injustice why don't you speak > up and fight for it within the Christian > tradition. Take women's equality for example (and I > am not refering to women priests only). Can > you honestly say that Goan women are treated equally > in the Goan Catholic home? Do they have the > same access to education, money, and other benefits? > Are they treated equally in inheritance > matters? Are they offered the same access to good > paying jobs? Are they treated in a non-sexist > manner by Goan Catholic men? Nasci responds: By George! What the hell has any of the above to do with Hindu Caste prejudices and imposition of animal worship on others??? George Pinto says: > Those who live in glass houses should clean their > homes first as the mess inside is visible > through the glass. > Nasci questions George: The bad Hindu practices are not only visible outside but are permeating their stink and misery all around!! George for once YOU ARE RIGHT here! Your phrase certainly refers to the BAD Hindu Glass House!! Personally, I do not care how messy is anyone's 'glass house'; as long as the Stink is confined therein, and not allowed to impact outside. Is it because the Brahmin House is so stinking that they do not allow a low caste to sit and eat at the same table with them? George, I do wish next time, you would only write/refer/adhere strictly to the issues mentioned; to prevent 'muddying' of either 'thought'. Kitea Mundta Re? With regards, Nasci Caldeira Enlightened and Logical Human Being, albeit Christian! Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Christian Goanet. Religion-bashing & Bigotry
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. "Frederick "FN" Noronha" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: To call Hindus animal worshippers is akin to saying that Catholics worship wood, because of all the statues in the churches. Fred: Couldnt you find a better analogy than Catholics worship(ing) wood, because of all the statues in the churches. Is the Catholic wood worship a new religion according to Fred Noronha? Rgds, Joe Vaz PS: I have respect for all religions and find nothing in any religion to ridicule. If one doesnt find the faith in ones (own) religion thats fine but no one has the right to blatantly abuse any religion. _ Who will win Bollywoods most coveted IIFA awards? You decide! Cast your vote! http://server1.msn.co.in/sp06/IIFA2006/static/weekend.asp ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Christian Goanet. Religion-bashing & Bigotry
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. In a rather humorous story WHY ARE YOU HERE Maxie Dunnam asks the questions: What is it that brings you here? Why did you choose to become a part of this church? If you are not a member, what are you looking for in a church? These questions can be aptly directed to Catholics who spare no effort to attack the Catholic Church/religion/religious beliefs and yet call themselves Catholics. I wonder to what extent a much sought after Goan Saint would inspire folks such as these? Or is it a publicity stunt all about seeking name, fame and hype? Best Wishes, Joe Vaz - WHY ARE YOU HERE? Maxie Dunnam One day a couple by the name of Herman and Mary were riding along in their shiny new car. Mary spoke up and said, "You know, Herman, if it weren't for my money, we probably wouldn't have this wonderful new car." And Herman just sat there and didn't say anything at all. As they pulled into the driveway, Herman turned off the motor and they quietly admired their new home. Then Mary said, "You know, Herman, if it weren't for my money, we probably wouldn't have this new house." And again, Herman just sat there and didn't say anything. They got out of the car and walked in just as the delivery man finished setting up their new furniture. You know, Herman, said Mary once more, "If it were not for my money, we probably wouldn't have this new carpet and all this new furniture." And once more, Herman didn't say a word. It happened again as they sat down in their new den and propped their feet up and watched the big screen TV in their new entertainment center. "You know, Herman," said Mary, "if it were not for my money, we probably wouldn't have this huge entertainment center." And with that, poor Herman had had enough. He turned to Mary and said, "I don't want to hurt your feelings, Honey, but you know if it weren't for your money, I probably wouldn't be here either!" What is it that brings you here? Why did you choose to become a part of this church? If you are not a member, what are you looking for in a church? _ Spice up your IM conversations. New, colorful and animated emoticons. Get chatting! http://server1.msn.co.in/SP05/emoticons/ ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Christian Goanet. Religion-bashing & Bigotry (attn. G. Pinto)
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- Nasci Caldeira <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Dear George, > > I do not see any gross injustices or bigotry from Indian Christians, > > practiced IN INDIA, > > at the present time or in the immediate past. If anyone can point 'these' > > out to me/us, > > then it would be helpful to find ways and means to tackle these, and > > nip them in the bud, to everyone's benefit. Dear Nasci If you live in a glass house, why are you throwing stones at others? Have you stopped to consider what Hindus might consider of YOUR beliefs? Put yourself in the shoes of a Hindu and try and relate to the Virgin Birth, Ascension into Heaven, Salvific value of Christ's death, etc. Would you not be incredulous? Yet, do you hear any Hindu mock you or your beliefs. Outside the narrow Hinduvta views of a minority (which is NOT Hindu philosophy and religion), Hindus are a VERY tolerant and respectful people. Is is too much to ask the same in return? And if you are really interested in fighting injustice why don't you speak up and fight for it within the Christian tradition. Take women's equality for example (and I am not refering to women priests only). Can you honestly say that Goan women are treated equally in the Goan Catholic home? Do they have the same access to education, money, and other benefits? Are they treated equally in inheritance matters? Are they offered the same access to good paying jobs? Are they treated in a non-sexist manner by Goan Catholic men? Those who live in glass houses should clean their homes first as the mess inside is visible through the glass. Regards, George ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Christian Goanet. Religion-bashing & Bigotry (attn. G. Pinto
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. On 02/08/06, Nasci Caldeira <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I do not see any gross injustices or bigotry from > > Indian Christians, practiced IN INDIA, at the > > present time or in the immediate past. If anyone Nasci, You are conveniently restricting yourself to a frame of reference where you know you probably won't find "inconvenient" evidence. If you look at the globe, you will find "gross injustices" and "bigotry" from a number of persons who are Christian. So, I wonder why you lash out at people of other faiths in all your writing. Of course, I am not one of those who sees history as a "clash of civilisations" (read: faith beliefs). Religion is just the clothing. At the root, we are much the same, and share our fears, desires, goals, dreams, idiosyncracies > In India/Goa, the freedom for religious practice, is > isolated to parts of the country; and is effectively > stymied by the majority Hindus (caste Hindus) in > large parts of the country. How about that? In India, we have had religious freedom and tolerance in greater measure than some of the Western (read WASP) countries you admire. What we have been seeing since the mid-nineties is not the doings of Hinduism. It stems from Hindutva (a political ideology, not to be confused with the religion Hinduism). This reflects the intolerant, bigoted fringe, which is trying to seize control of Hinduism and play the role of a self-appointed spokesperson. Just as people of your ike represent the intolerant, bigoted fringe of their own religions. I am sure just because one Nasci holds the views he does, it can't be held against all Christians and shown as proof that they are a bigoted people. > RUT of caste discrimination and effects of 'animal > worship' in their societies!! Lastly, let me register my protest at your attempts to pour ridicule on another religious tradition -- it's very easy to criticise The Other -- every time you post. Each response is another excuse to blast a religion which you obviously don't even understand, though your ancestors belonged to it. To call Hindus animal worshippers is akin to saying that Catholics worship wood, because of all the statues in the churches. I really don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings and religious beliefs here, but just want to show how ludicrous such arguments could get. Nascy, prior to shooting your mouth (based on what your grandmum told you as a kid), you can easily check the Net. For instance, from the Hinduism true-or-false series: http://www.buildingwithbooks.org/res/isp/hinduism/HinduismTF.html Hindus believe in treating all living things equally and have high regard for animals, especially the cow. Many Hindus believe that the cow is a living symbol of mother earth. In early agricultural times, the cow, thought to have been the first animal Hindus domesticated, provided a lot for families, including milk, milk products, labor, and dung. Because cows would give all its possessions for the benefit of others, they were thought of as one of the most important parts of the family. Hindu scriptures prohibit cow slaughter for these reasons. "Hindus do not worship gods, instead they worship animals like Elephants and Monkeys." FALSE - Hindus see divinity in all living creatures therefore, animals also occupy an important place in Hindu Dharma. One example is Hanuman, the monkey god. He is a devotee of Sri Rama and is worshipped by millions of people in India – this is because Hanuman is the embodiment of devotion, dedication and strength. Many people have seen images of Ganesh (Ganapati) the 'elephant god' as well. There are many myths around how this deity (who is actually not an elephant) received an elephant head. [I would prefer replacing the word 'myths' with the word 'beliefs'. After all, all religion is made up of 'myths' or 'beliefs', depending on how you see it. So is all political ideology. Even, our debates on Goanet is based on a lot of myths, at time!] Peace, and don't pour scorn on the beliefs of others please. At the end of the day, what you believe in, is a matter of faith. As long as it makes you a better human being, does it matter? FN -- Frederick Noronha http://fn.goa-india.org 9822122436 +91-832-240-9490 4000+ copylefted photos to share from Goa http://www.flickr.com/photos/fn-goa/ ___
Re: [Goanet] Christian Goanet. Religion-bashing & Bigotry (attn. G. Pinto)
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. > Nasci responds: > > Dear George, > I do not see any gross injustices or bigotry from > Indian Christians, practiced IN INDIA, at the > present time or in the immediate past. If anyone >>can point 'these' out to me/us, then it would be >>helpful to find ways and means to tackle these, and >>nip them in the bud, to everyone's benefit. > George, like you I am not in agreement with a lot of > stuff within the Church and matters of practice in > the Faith; but as you see, these are internal >>matters; these do not affect non Catholics or non >>Christians. But the caste Hindu DADAGIRI / bigotry, caste >>prejudices and animal worship affects all those >>living in India, and visitors as well!! just read >>what I have pointed out earlier. > > Further, please note that I am only talking of the > caste, and communal tensions in India and these are > mostly from the Caste Hindus and the Islamic > Fundamentalists. So what makes you tarnish my 'posting' with so called Christian injustices, in the world at large? This has been 'your typical anti Christian slur; in response to anything and everything; those things that you are talking of, do not directly affect social and or communal life in India/Goa. But the stuff I mention and point out is definitely what causes riots and communal divisions and antagonism, in Goa/India! > In Australia, as in the developed modern countries, there is complete freedom of religion and culture for everyone; no indulgence in annoying practices, never in public and everyone modern like me, feels at home. > In India/Goa, the freedom for religious practice, is isolated to parts of the country; and is effectively stymied by the majority Hindus (caste Hindus) in large parts of the country. How about that? This bigotry from the Caste Hindus, the real culprits, is the cause of the Muslim backlash and rioting etc; and also is the cause of a subdued and censored 'cultural expression' and way of life for Christians, as also for thousands of modern educated Hindus and others, who want to get out of the ancient RUT of caste discrimination and effects of 'animal worship' in their societies!! > Does this analysis not tell you that, in India, the > greatest terrorism is continually from the Caste > Hindus and their organisations. This is then taken > up by the Muslim orgs. in a tit for tat; and the > Christians and others have to put up with these > stupidities, and suffer indignation! > > I (for instance) cannot shed my Indianness; as a > result whenever casteist culture and animal > worshippers are ridiculed, (primitive ideas and > practices, and therefore rightly so!)outside of > India, I am not spared, and I suffer for no fault >>of mine! > It's not easy for me, to then go and tell people > that I am an 'ENLIGHTENED INDIAN" !! > > This is why I am on a mission to civilise the > uncivil ways that are being taken for granted. > Threfore, please do not talk of the injustices in > the world at large, when the Bigotry and >>Discrimination is 'forever' prevalent in India and >>nobody is doing anything about it. > Indians and specially Christian Goans and visitors must able to practice their Faith unfettered! As also they must be able to BBQ cow or whatever, and enjoy the famous Pork Sorpatel' anywhere and everywhere in India, since Goa is now integrated with India; and be 'satisfied', without any STUPID primitive protesters trying to enforce their primitive culture on societies that are modern! WHY NOT? > QUESTION EVERYTHING! says me! > > With regards, > Nasci Caldeira. > > > --- George Pinto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Nasci writes. > > > Please allow me some margin by way of explaining > > here! Caste and intolerence from communal Hindus > > > is the cause of Babri and tragedies that > followed > > it, as is also the Kashmir imbroglio! > - > > Dear Nasci > > You would gain some credibility and be taken > > seriously if you state all the injustices wrong > with > > Christianity too. The reason your views come > across > > as bigoted, is that they are directed against > > Hindus and yet you are conveniently silent and > have > > not spoken out against Christian injustices > > around the world too. At this point, it is you who > > is doing the Religion-bashing & Bigotry. I hope > > you will not defend Christianity as perfect in > > today's world a
Re: [Goanet] Christian Goanet. Religion-bashing & Bigotry (attn. Fred)
> Nasci writes. > Please allow me some margin by way of explaining here! Caste and intolerence > from communal Hindus > is the cause of Babri and tragedies that followed it, as is also the Kashmir > imbroglio! Dear Nasci You would gain some credibility and be taken seriously if you state all the injustices wrong with Christianity too. The reason your views come across as bigoted, is that they are directed against Hindus and yet you are conveniently silent and have not spoken out against Christian injustices around the world too. At this point, it is you who is doing the Religion-bashing & Bigotry. I hope you will not defend Christianity as perfect in today's world as you would loose even more credibility. If you are passionate about changing the world, start by looking in the mirror first. Regards, George ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Christian Goanet? Religion-bashing & Bigotry(attn. Fred)
Happy Birthday: St Britto's, which is 60 years old. Celebrations at St Jerome's Church Mapusa 11 am on July 30, 2006. Football match Loyola's vs. Britto's 11 am on July 31, 2006 at the school grounds. http://bmxgoa.com "Frederick Noronha" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Nasci, I was stunned by your level of arrogance. I > guess your > contribution would be great in helping make the > anticipated 'clash of > civilisations' into a self-fulfilling prophecy.> > PS: Let's stay off GoaFightingNet, GoaInsultingNet > and GoaPrivateBattlesNet. > Nasci regrets: dear Fred, It has never been my intention to hasten or 'bring on a clash of civilisations' into a self fulfilling prophesy. But it so happens that sometimes I have had to write, in context of issues, that are caused by the religious practices of some of the religious Hindus. I have only written whenever it warrants highlighting the causes!I have only attacked the bad stuff in hindu religion/ culture, since it hurts and affects everyone living in India. The good stuff is of course always welcome and should be and is tolerated. Please allow me some margin by way of explaining here! Caste and intolerence from communal Hindus is the cause of Babri and tragedies that followed it, as is also the Kashmir imbroglio! CASTE and practice thereof is a cause of centuries of 'segregation' and apartheid like living in India. This hurts everyone, brahmin and other high castes included. The 'POTENTIAL" of two thirds of the population is lost to the nation! Besides that, it is not social justice at all. Therefore I seek total comprehensive reform, rather than piecemeal solutions like 'reservations! Other religious practices, like very high decibel noisy processions through 'public places/ streets, is not desirable and must be 'banned' by law! Use of loudspeakers and noisy fire crackers should also be banned by law and at all times of day/night, 24/7. Animal worship and worship of like deities, if at all, and (I have to add that) 'all worship in all religions, should be confined to homes and or within temples/ churches and compounds that are part of. Never in public places /Roads, village pathways even! This way I would want all religious practices kept private and strictly so. This is necessary in India more so, so as to avoid 'Conflict'. This 'way' will breed 'real tolerance' for all religions, and peace will come about! This way, the Communal parties will not be able to exploit and come to the fore. Also more importantly there should not be any sort of ban on conversion and or preaching etc. within existing 'no force' rules and laws. The individual should be the decider of that, not even his/her community! If there is this much tolerence, then conversions should not matter; whatever religious majority India may have in future, all Indians will still be Indians and wiser and more loyal to the country! The reason I hightlight and deride animal worship, is because these sentiments are being indirectly imposed on others who are not of the same sentiment. As a corollary, there should be NO 'Ban on Cow Slaughter' anywhere and no parading of Cows and Bulls with saffron decor in public places and streets, trying to force govts. and public opinion into abeyance. This is totally wrong! No individual/ community has any right to force their 'culture/ religious practice on other individuals/ communities. Let this come about and there is no need for me or anybody to denigrate anything likewise. There should be 'True Freedom of Culture and Religion' for all and unfettered, but in private only. I do not care just what people worship or do not eat; as long as 'these' do not impact on others' way of life! I hope Vivek, Elisabeth and RKN, Marlon, etc. are reading! I wish no evil to any individual or community. Reform has to come about and soon; and then only can India be the great Country that it should have been long ago! Thank you for reading me! I am sure it is time well spent! Nasci Caldeira Melbourne, Down Under. Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Christian Goanet? Religion-bashing & Bigotry
Goanetters visiting Viva Goa 2006 in Toronto, Canada on July 29, can use the BMX booth as a meeting point. Please list your name on the message board that will be provided, courtesy of BMX. http://bmxgoa.com --- Elisabeth Carvalho wrote: > > Frankly, I was a little appalled that not many > Christians with their "rock solid code of conduct" > called on Nasci when he specifically referred to > some posters as uncivilised Hindu pagans. Frankly I > was aghast. If someone had called Christians, > ungodly or uncivilised, then I'd be furious and I'd > call them on it. > Mario responds: > Elisabeth, Didn't you turn a blind eye when Santosh was characterising ALL religions as having a "fake morality" and ALL religious people as members of "mobs" and "herds" then piously claiming that you had not seen a "scintilla" of evidence yada, yada, yada. Were his words not evidence enough for you? > Elisabeth writes: > > With reference to Santosh's writing, I have not come > across any that make personal reference of such a > nature or derogatory references to any religion, > other then in the course of theological debate. Are > we so thin-skinned that we cannot tolerate any > commentary on our religion? What does that say > about us? > Mario responds: > Would it be fair to conclude that personal comments offend you whereas bombarding entire religions and their members with verbal WMD's, does not. > "Theological debate'??? Good one, Elisabeth. What was the theology behind the Sai Baba allegations, the allegations of "sati", nudism and polygamy and some Christians getting arrested as "proof" that ALL established religious codes were fake? Sounded more illogical than theological to me. > How about general references to "mobs" and "herds" and "fake morality". How do I, as a religious person, exempt myself from such derogatory references? > Here is how Santosh described the posts of his adversaries on Goanet at the height of the debate on specious moral equivalencies, "...petulant outbursts and abusive attacks, whining and complaining, distortions and fabrications, bombardment with spam and hate mail, and ranting and raving..." > BTW, thanks for continuing to give me the opportunity to point all this out. > ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Christian Goanet? Religion-bashing & Bigotry(attn Nasci)
Goanetters visiting Viva Goa 2006 in Toronto, Canada on July 29, can use the BMX booth as a meeting point. Please list your name on the message board that will be provided, courtesy of BMX. http://bmxgoa.com My dear Nasci, People my age don't do anything missionary. If you want to do something about castes, let's start with the Catholic Goans, who still put matrimonial ads stating that they want Bamons and Chardos for their sons and daughters. If I've misconstrued the contents or intent of your posts, I'm sorry. My apologies. Elisabeth --- Nasci Caldeira <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Get real, Elisabeth! You are getting confused > reading > too much philosophy! Become a real missionary! Show > your mettle! Do something for these castless, > uncle/aunty less people! > > Nasci Caldeira > Concerned non casteist! > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Christian Goanet? Religion-bashing & Bigotry(attn Elisabeth
Goanetters visiting Viva Goa 2006 in Toronto, Canada on July 29, can use the BMX booth as a meeting point. Please list your name on the message board that will be provided, courtesy of BMX. http://bmxgoa.com Nasci, I was stunned by your level of arrogance. I guess your contribution would be great in helping make the anticipated 'clash of civilisations' into a self-fulfilling prophecy. What's the point in criticising the perceived failings of the religions of others? What was it that Christ said about the log in our own eye? If we want to improve things, rather than just insult others, we should start by critiquing the faults within our own. You definitely don't have a right to insult people who practice a religion different from yours, and which, thanks to your narrowmindedness, you can't or won't even try to comprehend. FN PS: Let's stay off GoaFightingNet, GoaInsultingNet and GoaPrivateBattlesNet. Elisabeth's idea to ignore those who don't deserve a reply is apt. But I just can't let this pass, lest silence be taken as approval! On 27/07/06, Nasci Caldeira <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I have not referred to 'posters' as 'uncivilised > pagans'. I have said and I do maintain that people, > the Hindu religious who practice 'CASTE' superiority > and worship animals and in the same breath look down > on fellow humans just because the caste wallahs > consider them low born! > Is this not FACT and REALITY? THE TRUTH? Do you like > this?These are the people who have to be 'civilised', > definitely for the good of humanity and the people of > the world at large. And I ask for a movement > originating from the high caste Hindus to challenge, > prohibit and eliminate caste acknowledgement and > tyranny from public life -- Frederick Noronha http://fn.goa-india.org 9822122436 +91-832-240-9490 4000+ copylefted photos to share from Goa http://www.flickr.com/photos/fn-goa/ ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Christian Goanet? Religion-bashing & Bigotry
Goanetters visiting Viva Goa 2006 in Toronto, Canada on July 29, can use the BMX booth as a meeting point. Please list your name on the message board that will be provided, courtesy of BMX. http://bmxgoa.com I would like to thank the Joe Vaz character for copying and pasting one of my President Pandurang Fernandes posts. I hope he posts all the Pandurang posts once again. It would give people an idea of what this Joe regards as ridiculing other people's religious beliefs. They would be able to decide for themselves whether the problem lies with me or with Joe Vaz. Cheers, Santosh P.S. Regarding his bogus charge that I have cced or bcced Elisabeth, I have done no such thing. --- Joe Vaz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> copied and pasted: > > Dear Bhatcar Satyamevajayate, > > Thanks for your email. We have already filed for > protection in the > bankruptcy court. If you are asking for donation for > a religious cause, we > have no money to contribute in your pot-shot. We can > only provide you moral > saapport against the forces of evil. These evildoers > have to be punished. ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Christian Goanet? Religion-bashing & Bigotry(attn Elisabeth)
Goanetters visiting Viva Goa 2006 in Toronto, Canada on July 29, can use the BMX booth as a meeting point. Please list your name on the message board that will be provided, courtesy of BMX. http://bmxgoa.com Elisabeth Carvalho <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Frankly, I was a little appalled that not many > Christians with their "rock solid code of conduct" > called on Nasci when he specifically referred to > some posters as uncivilised Hindu pagans. Frankly I was aghast. If someone had called Christians, ungodly or uncivilised, then I'd be furious and I'd call them on it. --- Nasci responds: Elisabeth, you are now becoming just like your agnostic mate Santosh, by twisting and turning what is said and written, into anything you fancy! Hah! I have not referred to 'posters' as 'uncivilised pagans'. I have said and I do maintain that people, the Hindu religious who practice 'CASTE' superiority and worship animals and in the same breath look down on fellow humans just because the caste wallahs consider them low born! Is this not FACT and REALITY? THE TRUTH? Do you like this?These are the people who have to be 'civilised', definitely for the good of humanity and the people of the world at large. And I ask for a movement originating from the high caste Hindus to challenge, prohibit and eliminate caste acknowledgement and tyranny from public life. Is this too much for you to swallow? My human spirit tells me that it is righteous and not bigoted as you and some others make it out to be. No decent human society can accept Casteism! But in India it is widely accepted and practiced! Casteism is the worst form of racism! Any society that accepts Casteism (with all its horrors)and animal worship is surely stuck in ancient 'ignorance' and not evolved modern and therefore has to be sudraued! Has to be civilised! The 'gang of agnostics and atheists' (I have nothing against their non beliefs) have never spoken out against casteism and animal worship and consequent problems in India. Why ? You do the research and let us know! Nor have these people spoken out against Islam and terrorism and other atrocities. But they do hit out only at Christians and Catholics? Because they 'turn the other cheek'? These people should be apologising to Catholics. Get real, Elisabeth! You are getting confused reading too much philosophy! Become a real missionary! Show your mettle! Do something for these castless, uncle/aunty less people! Nasci Caldeira Concerned non casteist! Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Christian Goanet? Religion-bashing & Bigotry
Goanetters visiting Viva Goa 2006 in Toronto, Canada on July 29, can use the BMX booth as a meeting point. Please list your name on the message board that will be provided, courtesy of BMX. http://bmxgoa.com I tend to agree, to disagree. (Elisabeth, this is NOT a personal attack but just a disagreement) << I think it is unnecessarily dividing Goanet along communal lines >> I disagree. I think Goanet is dividing on the basis of "my people", "your people", "our people", "their people" etc. We may think that there is no hidden agenda behind words like "my people". These type of categories are embedded in our sub-conscious and they are the primary source of discriminative action & reactions, mostly hurting less fortunate & weak people. These type of categories in our sub-conscious mind creates so-called 'superior people' and 'inferior people'. In fact, it is just an illusion and we may even spend most our life living in these type of illusions. << I think, apart from you two, Aristo, myself and Elizabeth, and indeed others have come to this same point of view. >> On Goanet, statement like above may appear to be like a mob culture. Cip -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Elisabeth Carvalho Sent: 26 July 2006 23:40 To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! Subject: Re: [Goanet] Christian Goanet? Religion-bashing & Bigotry Dear Joe, Goanet is not Thomas Moore's Utopia. It's a microcosm of the world that we live in. I have no doubt that Hindu fundamentalists, Muslim fanatics and Christian bigots lurk in the corridors of Goanet. Frankly, I was a little appalled that not many Christians with their "rock solid code of conduct" called on Nasci when he specifically referred to some posters as uncivilised Hindu pagans. Frankly I was aghast. If someone had called Christians, ungodly or uncivilised, then I'd be furious and I'd call them on it. With reference to Santosh's writing, I have not come across any that make personal reference of such a nature or derogatory references to any religion, other then in the course of theological debate. Are we so thin-skinned that we cannot tolerate any commentary on our religion? What does that say about us? This will be my last post on this subject. I think it is unnecessarily dividing Goanet along communal lines and if we as civilised people cannot get past our religious sensitivities, than I see little hope for the world at large. I enjoy your posts and I hope this disagreement will not deter us for sharing other views that we have in common. Elisabeth -- --- Joe Vaz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Elisabeth: > > 1. Do we have Hindu fundamentalists, Muslim fanatics > and Christian bigots on > Goanet? Can you name them so at least we all know > who they are? Then you can > gladly proceed to do the bashing of all those > fanatics and bigots > albeit (with ferocity and condescension). :-) > > 2. Dont people who are intolerant of religion (or > religious beliefs of > others) fall under the definition of Bigots? > > Joe > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Christian Goanet? Religion-bashing & Bigotry
Goanetters visiting Viva Goa 2006 in Toronto, Canada on July 29, can use the BMX booth as a meeting point. Please list your name on the message board that will be provided, courtesy of BMX. http://bmxgoa.com "Elisabeth Carvalho" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: With reference to Santosh's writing, I have not come across any that make personal reference of such a nature or derogatory references to any religion, other then in the course of theological debate. Are we so thin-skinned that we cannot tolerate any commentary on our religion? What does that say about us? . Hi Elisabeth: To know the abuse perpetuated by Santosh, you need to review the archives, before you venture to speak on behalf of him. I am not sure, if he also has you on his cc/bcc list, which once was accidentally published on this forum, wherein he was garnering support from Goanetters. There are members he attacked who left in sheer disgust, or felt uncomfortable to confront him because of his ridiculing religion and religious. You are probably new to this forum (as well as are those who recently joined). Here are just a couple examples of his postings. http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2003-July/003514.html Heres a post by ROHIT, and Santosh Helekars rebuttal: On Wed Jun 19, 2002 - "santoshhelekar" writes: Subject: Re: [Goanet] re: Canonization Rohit wrote: Now, if you guys like to hoist yourself on the pedestal of rationalism, go ahead. Leave the Catholic Church alone! Your cheap potshots at the Catholic Church speak more about your intellectual and spiritual bankruptcy than a faith and tradition that is more than 2000 years old. "And the forces of evil shall not overcome it." Rohit. In response "SANTOSH HELEKAR" wrote ridiculing Rohit on GoaNet: Dear Bhatcar Satyamevajayate, Thanks for your email. We have already filed for protection in the bankruptcy court. If you are asking for donation for a religious cause, we have no money to contribute in your pot-shot. We can only provide you moral saapport against the forces of evil. These evildoers have to be punished. We can send Forsu to hoist your flag on a pole. He cannot hoist it on the pedestal because both pedestals of his cycle are broken. Forsu charges Rs. 25 for this job. You will have to pay the money. We are bankrupt. Please give him Rs. 50. We want Rs. 25 for eating. Forsu will meet you near the Catholic church alone. 2000 years old? No, it is only 200 years old. Regarding rationalism, our society is closed. All ration cards have expired. You cannot do tradition on our stock market right now. You can only play motko in Bosteaoanchem bar. You can also drink a lot of spiritual drinks there. You can become an intellectual after drinking spiritual drinks. Yours faithfully, President Pandurang Fernandes Dhovi Khopti Independent Republic of Chimbel .. There are many posts of this nature wherein Santosh has resorted to name calling such as: net-pope and net-mullah and his attacks have gone unabated. Now, can Goanet allow the same courtesy for people to defend themselves on the net? Or do we suggest an all out attack on religion on this forum, (irrespective of religious followings,) while the rest remain (or be held) captive and silent spectators to such spectacles? I see that you did not answer the following question: others) fall under the definition of Bigots?> Assuming that some hold the view of being intolerant to religion, it can be presumed that such individuals will continue supporting such stuff on the forum. Regards, Joe Vaz _ Who will win Bollywoods most coveted IIFA awards? You decide! Cast your vote! http://server1.msn.co.in/sp06/IIFA2006/static/weekend.asp ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Christian Goanet? Religion-bashing & Bigotry
Dear Joe, Goanet is not Thomas Moore's Utopia. It's a microcosm of the world that we live in. I have no doubt that Hindu fundamentalists, Muslim fanatics and Christian bigots lurk in the corridors of Goanet. Frankly, I was a little appalled that not many Christians with their "rock solid code of conduct" called on Nasci when he specifically referred to some posters as uncivilised Hindu pagans. Frankly I was aghast. If someone had called Christians, ungodly or uncivilised, then I'd be furious and I'd call them on it. With reference to Santosh's writing, I have not come across any that make personal reference of such a nature or derogatory references to any religion, other then in the course of theological debate. Are we so thin-skinned that we cannot tolerate any commentary on our religion? What does that say about us? This will be my last post on this subject. I think it is unnecessarily dividing Goanet along communal lines and if we as civilised people cannot get past our religious sensitivities, than I see little hope for the world at large. I enjoy your posts and I hope this disagreement will not deter us for sharing other views that we have in common. Elisabeth -- --- Joe Vaz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Elisabeth: > > 1. Do we have Hindu fundamentalists, Muslim fanatics > and Christian bigots on > Goanet? Can you name them so at least we all know > who they are? Then you can > gladly proceed to do the bashing of all those > fanatics and bigots > albeit (with ferocity and condescension). :-) > > 2. Dont people who are intolerant of religion (or > religious beliefs of > others) fall under the definition of Bigots? > > Joe > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Christian Goanet? Religion-bashing & Bigotry
"Elisabeth Carvalho" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: I'm an equal opportunity religion-basher. I'll talk with equal condescension about Hindu fundamentalists, Muslim fanatics or Christian bigots. I'm also an Equal opportunity human rights defender. I'll attack With equal ferocity anyone trying to burn a Church, raze a mosque or bomb a temple. . Hi Elisabeth: 1. Do we have Hindu fundamentalists, Muslim fanatics and Christian bigots on Goanet? Can you name them so at least we all know who they are? Then you can gladly proceed to do the bashing of all those fanatics and bigots albeit (with ferocity and condescension). :-) 2. Dont people who are intolerant of religion (or religious beliefs of others) fall under the definition of Bigots? Joe _ How good are you in a Formula One car? Play now http://server1.msn.co.in/sp05/tataracing/onlinegame.asp ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
